transitioning back to public school
princesssputnik
Hi! I've never posted to the group before, although I do read
posted messages every now and then for inspiration/validation
about unschooling. I have been homeschooling my son for two
years with no curriculum to speak of. He was really beat down
from public schooling and needed a break from the grading
system and the peer pressure. We started him a year early in
kindergarten in school, because he was reading/writing at age
three. But we now realize that might have been a mistake as he
wasn't emotionally mature to deal with all the social issues.
Now he is 13. He stopped public school after 6th grade, was
homeschooled for 2 years (for 7th and 8th), and now we want
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate.
My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school system is
asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for two
years. How do I do that with unschooling? Since the whole point
of it is that is unstructered? I really have to records other than a
more well adjusted kid who has learned maybe not the three "r"s
but has learned his place in the world? thanks, PrincessSputnik
posted messages every now and then for inspiration/validation
about unschooling. I have been homeschooling my son for two
years with no curriculum to speak of. He was really beat down
from public schooling and needed a break from the grading
system and the peer pressure. We started him a year early in
kindergarten in school, because he was reading/writing at age
three. But we now realize that might have been a mistake as he
wasn't emotionally mature to deal with all the social issues.
Now he is 13. He stopped public school after 6th grade, was
homeschooled for 2 years (for 7th and 8th), and now we want
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate.
My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school system is
asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for two
years. How do I do that with unschooling? Since the whole point
of it is that is unstructered? I really have to records other than a
more well adjusted kid who has learned maybe not the three "r"s
but has learned his place in the world? thanks, PrincessSputnik
nellebelle
Why do you want him to have a traditional school experience? Does he want this? How do you think he could go back to school without becoming "beat down" again? Have you found local homeschool/unschool support?
As far as records, I would probably just make a list of the things he has done while not attending school. It is usually pretty easy to write a child's activities in a way that makes them appear schoolish.
Mary Ellen
As far as records, I would probably just make a list of the things he has done while not attending school. It is usually pretty easy to write a child's activities in a way that makes them appear schoolish.
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message -----He was really beat down
from public schooling....
now we want
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/17/03 9:56:35 AM, moviemaven@... writes:
<< My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school system is
asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for two
years. How do I do that with unschooling? >>
Go here and design something based on this:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
Depending where you are, state law might say you "have" to follow a course of
study. You did, it was just a loose one!
And I don't think it depends what state you're in (if you're in the U.S.),
real "credits" don't begin until 9th grade/high school freshman.
If they're worried, ask them if they have a placement test. (They probably
don't!)
If you want to push back, ask if they have tests for him to test out of 7th
grade so he can get go into 8th having proven something (whatever it might be
<g>) to them.
But I'd just go with Carol Narigon's outline and write up something
summarizing the things he's done in vague terms and give it to them.
Sandra
<< My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school system is
asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for two
years. How do I do that with unschooling? >>
Go here and design something based on this:
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
Depending where you are, state law might say you "have" to follow a course of
study. You did, it was just a loose one!
And I don't think it depends what state you're in (if you're in the U.S.),
real "credits" don't begin until 9th grade/high school freshman.
If they're worried, ask them if they have a placement test. (They probably
don't!)
If you want to push back, ask if they have tests for him to test out of 7th
grade so he can get go into 8th having proven something (whatever it might be
<g>) to them.
But I'd just go with Carol Narigon's outline and write up something
summarizing the things he's done in vague terms and give it to them.
Sandra
Betsy
**My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school system is
asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for two
years. How do I do that with unschooling?**
To understand what the school wants, I would try to look at it from
their point of view. The school's objective is probably to see if your
son can handle the 9th grade curriculum. Many states (such as CA) have
their curriculum for each grade listed at their Department of Education
website. Looking at what middle schools are supposed to cover for 7th
and 8th grade can give you an idea whether your son is "prepared" for
9th grade, or not.
You may also want to look over the curriculum standards for your state
for 9th grade to see if they are the slightest bit interesting. Will
your son get anything out of the school curriculum? Is it worth
spending 9 months on?
Don't let the "standards" intimidate you. I'm very skeptical that any
teacher in an average school can actually get a whole class full of kids
to perform on that level.
Betsy
asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for two
years. How do I do that with unschooling?**
To understand what the school wants, I would try to look at it from
their point of view. The school's objective is probably to see if your
son can handle the 9th grade curriculum. Many states (such as CA) have
their curriculum for each grade listed at their Department of Education
website. Looking at what middle schools are supposed to cover for 7th
and 8th grade can give you an idea whether your son is "prepared" for
9th grade, or not.
You may also want to look over the curriculum standards for your state
for 9th grade to see if they are the slightest bit interesting. Will
your son get anything out of the school curriculum? Is it worth
spending 9 months on?
Don't let the "standards" intimidate you. I'm very skeptical that any
teacher in an average school can actually get a whole class full of kids
to perform on that level.
Betsy
princesssputnik
I want my child to have a traditional school experience partly
because I feel he is entitled to it, partly because I had one and I
think it can be a positive experience, and partly because I want
him to feel part of something larger. He has mixed feelings
about going back to public school. He wants to go because he
wants "normalcy" in his life (do the same things, have the same
experiences that his friends -and the society at large- have). But
he is worried about the structure and the sitting in a classroom,
the grades and whether he is "smart enough", and doing the
homework which was a major issue. He doesn't understand
having to do a sheet of math problems when he knows how to
do it after one problem. Hates writing personal narratives
through a dictated structure ... how are they his writings if
someone else is telling him how to construct the paragraph?
He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone who
is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
well. Without going into the long story, I think that he lacked the
maturity needed to deal with kids a year older (or more) than him
and his own intelligence. I think the last two years have taught
him to be more observant of how the world works and how to fit
in better without compromising his own principles. And coping
skills to help avoid "mean" people.
We have been doing the homeschool/unschool thing on our
own. We have a younger daughter going into 5th grade who
goes to public school and loves it.
Trina
--- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
school without becoming "beat down" again? Have you found
local homeschool/unschool support?
pretty easy to write a child's activities in a way that makes them
appear schoolish.
because I feel he is entitled to it, partly because I had one and I
think it can be a positive experience, and partly because I want
him to feel part of something larger. He has mixed feelings
about going back to public school. He wants to go because he
wants "normalcy" in his life (do the same things, have the same
experiences that his friends -and the society at large- have). But
he is worried about the structure and the sitting in a classroom,
the grades and whether he is "smart enough", and doing the
homework which was a major issue. He doesn't understand
having to do a sheet of math problems when he knows how to
do it after one problem. Hates writing personal narratives
through a dictated structure ... how are they his writings if
someone else is telling him how to construct the paragraph?
He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone who
is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
well. Without going into the long story, I think that he lacked the
maturity needed to deal with kids a year older (or more) than him
and his own intelligence. I think the last two years have taught
him to be more observant of how the world works and how to fit
in better without compromising his own principles. And coping
skills to help avoid "mean" people.
We have been doing the homeschool/unschool thing on our
own. We have a younger daughter going into 5th grade who
goes to public school and loves it.
Trina
--- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> Why do you want him to have a traditional school experience?Does he want this? How do you think he could go back to
school without becoming "beat down" again? Have you found
local homeschool/unschool support?
>things he has done while not attending school. It is usually
> As far as records, I would probably just make a list of the
pretty easy to write a child's activities in a way that makes them
appear schoolish.
>
> Mary Ellen
princesssputnik
Thanks for that link. I printed out that "curriculum" and will try
to
fit my sons experiences into something like that. Although I am
still kind of worried about what "they" are expecting and what I
will be presenting as "proof". I don't handle conflict well (yeah, I
know that in order to be a good advocate for me kid I need to be
able to argue a good case). I wish they had a 8th grade
placement test ( I am sure they don't). That might make things
easier. Why oh why do they make everything so darn difficult
about public school?
Trina
--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
to
fit my sons experiences into something like that. Although I am
still kind of worried about what "they" are expecting and what I
will be presenting as "proof". I don't handle conflict well (yeah, I
know that in order to be a good advocate for me kid I need to be
able to argue a good case). I wish they had a 8th grade
placement test ( I am sure they don't). That might make things
easier. Why oh why do they make everything so darn difficult
about public school?
Trina
--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>writes:
> In a message dated 7/17/03 9:56:35 AM, moviemaven@e...
>system is
> << My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school
>two
> asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used for
>
> years. How do I do that with unschooling? >>
>
> Go here and design something based on this:
>
> http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
>
princesssputnik
Hi, I live in Delaware. On the education website here they have
somewhat listed what each grade will be expected to learn in
"school -ese" language. They have big PDF files full of this sort
of hard to read stuff (I'm not a total idiot ... I did get a
bachelors
degree in college ... and I even wonder why they need twenty five
words to say something that could be summarized in a five word
sentence).
Delaware is pretty liberal (in theory only) about homeschooling.
Kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They don't want to know
exactly what you are doing but you better be doing what they
want. I can kind of feel an unspoken hostility from the
established education community about homeschooling in
general. Bringing up "unschooling" would probably bring
spoken hostility. I am reluctant to tell my son's school that I
unschooled him. That would be like telling them that they
screwed up and I had to do it (undo it) on my own. !?!
We picked "unschooling" as the way to teach my son because
my son refused to do anything that even smelled of school for
the longest time after pulling him out of public school 7th grade
after only two weeks. I tried a packaged curriculum the first year
and that made him shut down. I purchased tons of
homeschooling theory books and none of them fit us.
Unschooling seemed to be what my son wanted and needed... a
chance to decompress away from structure and find his own way
of learning. I'm not just a little scared that sending him back to
public school won't send him spiraling back to "an unhappy
place" in his own mind. But I think that we are both (or all three
of us since my husband is involved) are ready to take a chance
again at public school. He will going to 8th grade in the fall (we
are considering his two years of homeschooling as 7th grade so
that he can be with kids his own age again).
Trina
--- In [email protected], Betsy <
ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
somewhat listed what each grade will be expected to learn in
"school -ese" language. They have big PDF files full of this sort
of hard to read stuff (I'm not a total idiot ... I did get a
bachelors
degree in college ... and I even wonder why they need twenty five
words to say something that could be summarized in a five word
sentence).
Delaware is pretty liberal (in theory only) about homeschooling.
Kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They don't want to know
exactly what you are doing but you better be doing what they
want. I can kind of feel an unspoken hostility from the
established education community about homeschooling in
general. Bringing up "unschooling" would probably bring
spoken hostility. I am reluctant to tell my son's school that I
unschooled him. That would be like telling them that they
screwed up and I had to do it (undo it) on my own. !?!
We picked "unschooling" as the way to teach my son because
my son refused to do anything that even smelled of school for
the longest time after pulling him out of public school 7th grade
after only two weeks. I tried a packaged curriculum the first year
and that made him shut down. I purchased tons of
homeschooling theory books and none of them fit us.
Unschooling seemed to be what my son wanted and needed... a
chance to decompress away from structure and find his own way
of learning. I'm not just a little scared that sending him back to
public school won't send him spiraling back to "an unhappy
place" in his own mind. But I think that we are both (or all three
of us since my husband is involved) are ready to take a chance
again at public school. He will going to 8th grade in the fall (we
are considering his two years of homeschooling as 7th grade so
that he can be with kids his own age again).
Trina
--- In [email protected], Betsy <
ecsamhill@e...> wrote:
>system is
>
> **My question is, in order to restart 8th grade the school
> asking that I show my records and the curriculum I used fortwo
> years. How do I do that with unschooling?**from
>
> To understand what the school wants, I would try to look at it
> their point of view. The school's objective is probably to see ifyour
> son can handle the 9th grade curriculum. Many states (suchas CA) have
> their curriculum for each grade listed at their Department ofEducation
> website. Looking at what middle schools are supposed tocover for 7th
> and 8th grade can give you an idea whether your son is"prepared" for
> 9th grade, or not.your state
>
> You may also want to look over the curriculum standards for
> for 9th grade to see if they are the slightest bit interesting.Will
> your son get anything out of the school curriculum? Is it worthany
> spending 9 months on?
>
> Don't let the "standards" intimidate you. I'm very skeptical that
> teacher in an average school can actually get a whole class fullof kids
> to perform on that level.
>
> Betsy
nellebelle
I wish your son the best of luck. He and you might find Grace Llewellyn's books helpful in preparation for returning - Guerilla Learning. If he is set on going back to school, I would especially recommend that you both read Guerilla Learning. If he still isn't sure about going back, then he might enjoy The Teenage Liberation Handbook, also by Llewellyn.
Of course this decision is for your family, but from reading your posts I feel like the best advice is Stay Out of School! It sounds as if returning to school is something that YOU want for him more than he wants for himself. There are many ways to feel a part of something larger besides attending public school. If you want any ideas for that, I'm sure people on this list could give lots of them.
However, consider the source when you read my opinion. This IS an unschooling list. If I went to a vegetarian list and asked for advice on transitioning back to eating meat, I would expect that many people would advise that I NOT return to eating meat.
Let us know how it turns out.
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message, snipped -----
I want my child...
I think it can be...
I want him to feel...
But he is worried about the structure and the sitting in a classroom,
the grades and whether he is "smart enough", and doing the
homework which was a major issue. He doesn't understand
having to do a sheet of math problems when he knows how to
do it after one problem. Hates writing personal narratives
through a dictated structure ... how are they his writings if
someone else is telling him how to construct the paragraph?
He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone who
is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
well.>>>>>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Of course this decision is for your family, but from reading your posts I feel like the best advice is Stay Out of School! It sounds as if returning to school is something that YOU want for him more than he wants for himself. There are many ways to feel a part of something larger besides attending public school. If you want any ideas for that, I'm sure people on this list could give lots of them.
However, consider the source when you read my opinion. This IS an unschooling list. If I went to a vegetarian list and asked for advice on transitioning back to eating meat, I would expect that many people would advise that I NOT return to eating meat.
Let us know how it turns out.
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message, snipped -----
I want my child...
I think it can be...
I want him to feel...
But he is worried about the structure and the sitting in a classroom,
the grades and whether he is "smart enough", and doing the
homework which was a major issue. He doesn't understand
having to do a sheet of math problems when he knows how to
do it after one problem. Hates writing personal narratives
through a dictated structure ... how are they his writings if
someone else is telling him how to construct the paragraph?
He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone who
is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
well.>>>>>>>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
"and now we want
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate. "
If it's all about what YOU want for him, I doubt you were ever truly unschooling. What does HE want right now? That's what I'd like to know. Is he happy at home? Does HE want traditional schooling?
There is no need to worry about transcripts...tell them he was homeschooled and he's entering 8th grade, if they are really concerned they can give him a placement test I suppose.
Ren
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate. "
If it's all about what YOU want for him, I doubt you were ever truly unschooling. What does HE want right now? That's what I'd like to know. Is he happy at home? Does HE want traditional schooling?
There is no need to worry about transcripts...tell them he was homeschooled and he's entering 8th grade, if they are really concerned they can give him a placement test I suppose.
Ren
Tia Leschke
> Hi, I live in Delaware. On the education website here they haveThey do like to make themselves seem important, don't they?
> somewhat listed what each grade will be expected to learn in
> "school -ese" language. They have big PDF files full of this sort
> of hard to read stuff (I'm not a total idiot ... I did get a
> bachelors
> degree in college ... and I even wonder why they need twenty five
> words to say something that could be summarized in a five word
> sentence).
> Delaware is pretty liberal (in theory only) about homeschooling.They did, didn't they?
> Kind of a "don't ask, don't tell" policy. They don't want to know
> exactly what you are doing but you better be doing what they
> want. I can kind of feel an unspoken hostility from the
> established education community about homeschooling in
> general. Bringing up "unschooling" would probably bring
> spoken hostility. I am reluctant to tell my son's school that I
> unschooled him. That would be like telling them that they
> screwed up and I had to do it (undo it) on my own. !?!
In many areas incoming homeschoolers are simply placed with their age-mates
to start. There are many, many kids going through that are way behind for
various reasons. Tell them you didn't use a curriculum and if they don't
want to place him with his age group, then they should test him.
>This sounds more like de-schooling. Unschooling means that we trust our
> We picked "unschooling" as the way to teach my son because
> my son refused to do anything that even smelled of school for
> the longest time after pulling him out of public school 7th grade
> after only two weeks. I tried a packaged curriculum the first year
> and that made him shut down. I purchased tons of
> homeschooling theory books and none of them fit us.
> Unschooling seemed to be what my son wanted and needed... a
> chance to decompress away from structure and find his own way
> of learning.
kids to learn what they need to know when they need to know it. If you
trusted him for a couple of years, why not continue?
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Tia Leschke
> I want my child to have a traditional school experience partlySomebody else said that this sounds like it's about you and what you want
> because I feel he is entitled to it, partly because I had one and I
> think it can be a positive experience, and partly because I want
> him to feel part of something larger. He has mixed feelings
> about going back to public school.
for him rather than what he wants. That's not unschooling. I would try to
find ways to get him what he wants without including the stuff he doesn't
want. Do you have any kind of support group? Are there any unschoolers?
Even other homeschoolers he clicked with would help.
My son went through a period of wanting to be "normal" at that age and
almost went to school. Then he got an inside look through a teacher cousin
talking about her frustrations with the system. He decided not to go. It
seemed like after he made that decision, his whole social life perked up.
He hangs out almost exclusively with schooled kids, mainly those on his
sports teams and their friends. Maybe your son could connect with schooled
kids who share interests with him.
> He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone whoI had an awful time in school, socially. While I had matured enough to be
> is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
> well. Without going into the long story, I think that he lacked the
> maturity needed to deal with kids a year older (or more) than him
> and his own intelligence. I think the last two years have taught
> him to be more observant of how the world works and how to fit
> in better without compromising his own principles. And coping
> skills to help avoid "mean" people.
able to deal with it by junior high, it still wasn't a healthy social
experience at all.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Mary
From: "princesssputnik" <moviemaven@...>
<<He stopped public school after 6th grade, was
homeschooled for 2 years (for 7th and 8th), and now we want
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate.>>
I'm not hearing that he wants to go back to school or that he's not wanting
to hang out with the kids he's with. I'm hearing what you want and can't
help but wonder if you understand unschooling. It's about what your son
wants. If there are parts of unschooling/homeschooling you son doesn't like,
there are ways to change those things for him so he can get what he wants
and still stay home.
Mary B
<<He stopped public school after 6th grade, was
homeschooled for 2 years (for 7th and 8th), and now we want
him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate.>>
I'm not hearing that he wants to go back to school or that he's not wanting
to hang out with the kids he's with. I'm hearing what you want and can't
help but wonder if you understand unschooling. It's about what your son
wants. If there are parts of unschooling/homeschooling you son doesn't like,
there are ways to change those things for him so he can get what he wants
and still stay home.
Mary B
princesssputnik
Aaack! Too much help, too much help! I can't possibly answer each
persons advice individually so I will try to answer back to all.
A lot of you are concerned that it is too much what "I want" and not
enough what "he wants". That may be true... but I do want the best
for my son and I feel that choices I have made for him about his
schooling are affecting him adversely.
I talked to my son some today about the issues I have been thinking
about and his major concern about homeschooling (among many) is that
he is NOT being schooled. But on the other hand, he doesn't want to
BE schooled by me or anyone. We have discussed the concept of
independent study before, that he selects what he wants to learn and
goes about learning it. But no matter what he does or studies, he
just can't see what he does as learning because it doesn't happen in a
classroom and it doesn't come from a book. He isn't feeling like he
is learning and I don't know how to communicate to him that he is.
Parenting is just so hard. I would teach him a
reading/writing/arithmatic kind of school if he would let me.
Trina
--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
persons advice individually so I will try to answer back to all.
A lot of you are concerned that it is too much what "I want" and not
enough what "he wants". That may be true... but I do want the best
for my son and I feel that choices I have made for him about his
schooling are affecting him adversely.
I talked to my son some today about the issues I have been thinking
about and his major concern about homeschooling (among many) is that
he is NOT being schooled. But on the other hand, he doesn't want to
BE schooled by me or anyone. We have discussed the concept of
independent study before, that he selects what he wants to learn and
goes about learning it. But no matter what he does or studies, he
just can't see what he does as learning because it doesn't happen in a
classroom and it doesn't come from a book. He isn't feeling like he
is learning and I don't know how to communicate to him that he is.
Parenting is just so hard. I would teach him a
reading/writing/arithmatic kind of school if he would let me.
Trina
--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
> From: "princesssputnik" <moviemaven@e...>wanting
>
> <<He stopped public school after 6th grade, was
> homeschooled for 2 years (for 7th and 8th), and now we want
> him to restart public school in grade 8 where he will be with kids
> his own age rather than with kids a year older than him (he is
> fine with this). We really want him to have a traditional school
> experience and I think he is ready to reintegrate.>>
>
>
> I'm not hearing that he wants to go back to school or that he's not
> to hang out with the kids he's with. I'm hearing what you want andcan't
> help but wonder if you understand unschooling. It's about what yourson
> wants. If there are parts of unschooling/homeschooling you sondoesn't like,
> there are ways to change those things for him so he can get what hewants
> and still stay home.
>
> Mary B"
nellebelle
Please buy or borrow The Teenage Liberation Handbook. Read it yourself and make it available to your son. I think it would address many of his and your concerns.
Mary Ellen
Mary Ellen
----- Original Message ----- his major concern about homeschooling (among many) is that
he is NOT being schooled.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Joylyn
princesssputnik wrote:
public school experiences, but I don't think all do. I'd even go so far
as to say that most kids have some good experiences, and some bad.
Others, like me, have fairly bad experiences. My husband's experiences
were not all good, but they were mostly good. However, now that he
looks back on it from the eyes of a homeschooler, he realizes that much
of what he thought was good, was not really. Even the parts of school
that many people find
"normal" are now, to me, horrifying.
of something larger at someplace more real than a school?
m ean people search out and destroy those with life and passion and
mostly those who are different, who have the courage to be different,
who have the courage to try to fit in without compromising their own
principals. I wouldn't put my child back into school at any point, but
I especially would NOT want them in a middle or high school today. And
if your son doesn't wish to go (and it seems like from the above he does
not wish to go) then why would you make him?
Joylyn
> I want my child to have a traditional school experience partlycan be. Those are the important words. CAN be. Some kids have great
> because I feel he is entitled to it, partly because I had one and I
> think it can be a positive experience,
public school experiences, but I don't think all do. I'd even go so far
as to say that most kids have some good experiences, and some bad.
Others, like me, have fairly bad experiences. My husband's experiences
were not all good, but they were mostly good. However, now that he
looks back on it from the eyes of a homeschooler, he realizes that much
of what he thought was good, was not really. Even the parts of school
that many people find
"normal" are now, to me, horrifying.
> and partly because I wantTo me, here is the key. You say "I want." Why can he not feel a part
> him to feel part of something larger.
of something larger at someplace more real than a school?
> He has mixed feelingsIt sounds to me like your son does not want to go back to school at all.
> about going back to public school. He wants to go because he
> wants "normalcy" in his life (do the same things, have the same
> experiences that his friends -and the society at large- have). But
> he is worried about the structure and the sitting in a classroom,
> the grades and whether he is "smart enough", and doing the
> homework which was a major issue. He doesn't understand
> having to do a sheet of math problems when he knows how to
> do it after one problem. Hates writing personal narratives
> through a dictated structure ... how are they his writings if
> someone else is telling him how to construct the paragraph?
> He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone who
> is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
> well.
> Without going into the long story, I think that he lacked theavoid mean people at school. Impossible. I know, I teach at one. The
> maturity needed to deal with kids a year older (or more) than him
> and his own intelligence. I think the last two years have taught
> him to be more observant of how the world works and how to fit
> in better without compromising his own principles. And coping
> skills to help avoid "mean" people.
m ean people search out and destroy those with life and passion and
mostly those who are different, who have the courage to be different,
who have the courage to try to fit in without compromising their own
principals. I wouldn't put my child back into school at any point, but
I especially would NOT want them in a middle or high school today. And
if your son doesn't wish to go (and it seems like from the above he does
not wish to go) then why would you make him?
>I'd be curious to see how you define your "homeschool/unschool thing."
>
> We have been doing the homeschool/unschool thing on our
> own.
Joylyn
> We have a younger daughter going into 5th grade who[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> goes to public school and loves it.
>
>
> Trina
>
> --- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
> <nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> > Why do you want him to have a traditional school experience?
> Does he want this? How do you think he could go back to
> school without becoming "beat down" again? Have you found
> local homeschool/unschool support?
> >
> > As far as records, I would probably just make a list of the
> things he has done while not attending school. It is usually
> pretty easy to write a child's activities in a way that makes them
> appear schoolish.
> >
> > Mary Ellen
>
>
>
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> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
Backstrom kelli
and partly because I want
Joylyn <joylyn@...> wrote:
princesssputnik wrote:
public school experiences, but I don't think all do. I'd even go so far
as to say that most kids have some good experiences, and some bad.
Others, like me, have fairly bad experiences. My husband's experiences
were not all good, but they were mostly good. However, now that he
looks back on it from the eyes of a homeschooler, he realizes that much
of what he thought was good, was not really. Even the parts of school
that many people find
"normal" are now, to me, horrifying.
of something larger at someplace more real than a school?
m ean people search out and destroy those with life and passion and
mostly those who are different, who have the courage to be different,
who have the courage to try to fit in without compromising their own
principals. I wouldn't put my child back into school at any point, but
I especially would NOT want them in a middle or high school today. And
if your son doesn't wish to go (and it seems like from the above he does
not wish to go) then why would you make him?
Joylyn
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> him to feel part of something larger.This reason is such a huge reason why my dh and I have made the decision to homeschool. I feel like my children will be part of something so large and so great! I feel like by taking this step we are somehow saying yes to our family and no to the dictates of the society with which we live and that is large indeed. I feel like finding and seeking out fellow homeschoolers to spend time with and finding a friends in other activities aside from the state run public schools is definitely something larger. Really, not to sound hoaky here but when dh approached me with this idea, I said, "wow, that is definitely huge!" Kelli
Joylyn <joylyn@...> wrote:
princesssputnik wrote:
> I want my child to have a traditional school experience partlycan be. Those are the important words. CAN be. Some kids have great
> because I feel he is entitled to it, partly because I had one and I
> think it can be a positive experience,
public school experiences, but I don't think all do. I'd even go so far
as to say that most kids have some good experiences, and some bad.
Others, like me, have fairly bad experiences. My husband's experiences
were not all good, but they were mostly good. However, now that he
looks back on it from the eyes of a homeschooler, he realizes that much
of what he thought was good, was not really. Even the parts of school
that many people find
"normal" are now, to me, horrifying.
> and partly because I wantTo me, here is the key. You say "I want." Why can he not feel a part
> him to feel part of something larger.
of something larger at someplace more real than a school?
> He has mixed feelingsIt sounds to me like your son does not want to go back to school at all.
> about going back to public school. He wants to go because he
> wants "normalcy" in his life (do the same things, have the same
> experiences that his friends -and the society at large- have). But
> he is worried about the structure and the sitting in a classroom,
> the grades and whether he is "smart enough", and doing the
> homework which was a major issue. He doesn't understand
> having to do a sheet of math problems when he knows how to
> do it after one problem. Hates writing personal narratives
> through a dictated structure ... how are they his writings if
> someone else is telling him how to construct the paragraph?
> He was picked on at school for being different (as everyone who
> is any bit unusual is in middle school) which he did not handle
> well.
> Without going into the long story, I think that he lacked theavoid mean people at school. Impossible. I know, I teach at one. The
> maturity needed to deal with kids a year older (or more) than him
> and his own intelligence. I think the last two years have taught
> him to be more observant of how the world works and how to fit
> in better without compromising his own principles. And coping
> skills to help avoid "mean" people.
m ean people search out and destroy those with life and passion and
mostly those who are different, who have the courage to be different,
who have the courage to try to fit in without compromising their own
principals. I wouldn't put my child back into school at any point, but
I especially would NOT want them in a middle or high school today. And
if your son doesn't wish to go (and it seems like from the above he does
not wish to go) then why would you make him?
>I'd be curious to see how you define your "homeschool/unschool thing."
>
> We have been doing the homeschool/unschool thing on our
> own.
Joylyn
> We have a younger daughter going into 5th grade who[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> goes to public school and loves it.
>
>
> Trina
>
> --- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
> <nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> > Why do you want him to have a traditional school experience?
> Does he want this? How do you think he could go back to
> school without becoming "beat down" again? Have you found
> local homeschool/unschool support?
> >
> > As far as records, I would probably just make a list of the
> things he has done while not attending school. It is usually
> pretty easy to write a child's activities in a way that makes them
> appear schoolish.
> >
> > Mary Ellen
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> ADVERTISEMENT
> click here
> <http://rd.yahoo.com/M=194081.3551198.4824677.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1663535/R=0/SIG=11ps6rfef/*http://www.ediets.com/start.cfm?code=30504&media=atkins>
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the
> list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
> an email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
> <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 7/17/03 7:23:31 PM, kellibac@... writes:
<< I'd even go so far
as to say that most kids have some good experiences, and some bad.
Others, like me, have fairly bad experiences. My husband's experiences
were not all good, but they were mostly good. However, now that he
looks back on it from the eyes of a homeschooler, he realizes that much
of what he thought was good, was not really. >>
I think MOST kids' school experiences are pretty bad. I think a few have
good experiences (mostly good). I think a large subset of school kids don't
seem to be having a particularly bad time *only* because they have given up
hoping for a good time and have settled for dulling their awareness to get through.
When I was bubbling on about my own good school experiences once when telling
a friend that her four year old "MIGHT really like school! I did!" she told
me that Kirby might have as miserable a time at school as she did, that she
had really hated it. And she said this thing which echoed in me to this day:
"What are the odds?"
And as it turned out, Kirby never went to school and her daughter only
homeschooled maybe a year and a half, and that with her school-teacher-trained dad
fussing over her and muttering the whole time.
Her dad trained to teach elementary, but chose to work selling clothes and
gifts at the big Harley Davidson store here. Yet he insisted his kids should
just buck up and go to school.
Sandra
<< I'd even go so far
as to say that most kids have some good experiences, and some bad.
Others, like me, have fairly bad experiences. My husband's experiences
were not all good, but they were mostly good. However, now that he
looks back on it from the eyes of a homeschooler, he realizes that much
of what he thought was good, was not really. >>
I think MOST kids' school experiences are pretty bad. I think a few have
good experiences (mostly good). I think a large subset of school kids don't
seem to be having a particularly bad time *only* because they have given up
hoping for a good time and have settled for dulling their awareness to get through.
When I was bubbling on about my own good school experiences once when telling
a friend that her four year old "MIGHT really like school! I did!" she told
me that Kirby might have as miserable a time at school as she did, that she
had really hated it. And she said this thing which echoed in me to this day:
"What are the odds?"
And as it turned out, Kirby never went to school and her daughter only
homeschooled maybe a year and a half, and that with her school-teacher-trained dad
fussing over her and muttering the whole time.
Her dad trained to teach elementary, but chose to work selling clothes and
gifts at the big Harley Davidson store here. Yet he insisted his kids should
just buck up and go to school.
Sandra
Ren
"I would teach him a
reading/writing/arithmatic kind of school if he would let me."
It sounds to me like unschooling definitely never took place in your house, not the way it should ideally work. You still have the notion that book learning is a great thing and it would be wonderful to teach your child that way. Unschooling is seeing learning in everything. You being able to do that would help your child see it.
Meet people that are successful and did not pursue traditional schooling, do things you both love (what are YOUR passions/interests?), treat him as though he were worthy and intelligent and not in need of "filling up" with information.
It sounds like you both need to de-school BIG time if you both think school -like learning is still necessary.
I don't think he needs traditional school at all, I think you're pouring your own fears into your child and not seeing what he's learning without school!
Here are a couple of websites I think you should visit:
http://www.dreamsbbs.com/nikleba/unschool.html
Laurie was raised in the unschooling style from birth, read about her successes and pursuits.
http://www.peterkowalke.com/
Peter is also a raised unschooler.
Life is a journey, each bit of information we get, each new experience helps us build mental models of the world. As your son connects new pieces of information he is interested in, it will stick. Because it is TRUE learning. Memorizing bits and pieces to jump through some stupid hoop (ie:test, homework) is not real learning and doesn't have any meaning for the person having it foisted upon them.
Your ds doesn't want school...what a smart guy.
Listen to him, find the things he loves doing and do them! Do the things YOU love to do, show him what a life long learner looks like (wow, was that a lot of "L's" or WHAT!!!).
:)
Anyway, I think he needs to follow his heart and you need to listen better...that's my opinion. School is not the answer, nor is schooling at home.
I'm surprised you can be lurking at this list and not understand that essential information. Especially the part about letting children choose their own lives.
Ren
reading/writing/arithmatic kind of school if he would let me."
It sounds to me like unschooling definitely never took place in your house, not the way it should ideally work. You still have the notion that book learning is a great thing and it would be wonderful to teach your child that way. Unschooling is seeing learning in everything. You being able to do that would help your child see it.
Meet people that are successful and did not pursue traditional schooling, do things you both love (what are YOUR passions/interests?), treat him as though he were worthy and intelligent and not in need of "filling up" with information.
It sounds like you both need to de-school BIG time if you both think school -like learning is still necessary.
I don't think he needs traditional school at all, I think you're pouring your own fears into your child and not seeing what he's learning without school!
Here are a couple of websites I think you should visit:
http://www.dreamsbbs.com/nikleba/unschool.html
Laurie was raised in the unschooling style from birth, read about her successes and pursuits.
http://www.peterkowalke.com/
Peter is also a raised unschooler.
Life is a journey, each bit of information we get, each new experience helps us build mental models of the world. As your son connects new pieces of information he is interested in, it will stick. Because it is TRUE learning. Memorizing bits and pieces to jump through some stupid hoop (ie:test, homework) is not real learning and doesn't have any meaning for the person having it foisted upon them.
Your ds doesn't want school...what a smart guy.
Listen to him, find the things he loves doing and do them! Do the things YOU love to do, show him what a life long learner looks like (wow, was that a lot of "L's" or WHAT!!!).
:)
Anyway, I think he needs to follow his heart and you need to listen better...that's my opinion. School is not the answer, nor is schooling at home.
I'm surprised you can be lurking at this list and not understand that essential information. Especially the part about letting children choose their own lives.
Ren