Shelley & Donald Wurst

I have been "listening" in for the past week, and decided I'd be polite and say hello (HI!) and introduce myself, since I plan on sticking around for awhile (like the next 18 yrs, LOL!).

I live on a small (very small <G>) farm in northeastern CT with my DH of 15 yrs, our 2 young sons, and a house and barnyard full of critters. We raise sheep and angora rabbits and Collies, and I work at home teaching herding and dog obedience lessons. (I also run a cottage industry producing fiber for hand-spinners, but have sort of put that project on the back-burner while the kids are small.)

We are early in our unschooling journey -- Jacob is 2 1/2 yrs and Gabriel is 4 mos. I am very passionate about and committed to unschooling our kids, DH is a little more skeptical (tho he'll come around eventually <G>). His biggest concern is not limiting their future potential, so I've been trying to find websites, etc, that talk about what unschoolers are doing in their adult lives. If anyone has any relevant sites to share, I'd love to know about them!

I've been enjoying reading the posts and following the links, and look forward to the support and ideas that this list is sure to generate for me over the upcoming years! I am particularly interested in meeting other unschoolers in CT, and other folks who are Unpreschooling.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Betjeman and Barton Tea Merchants

Welcome Shelley

I'm Karen (in case you missed my intro). I have a 3 1/2 year old dd, Brogan Elizabeth - we live in Southeastern CT (Groton)

Next year in August there's going to be an Unschooling Conference just north of Boston - I'd highly recommend attending it should answer a lot of your dh's questions / concerns.

Karen

----- Original Message -----
From: Shelley & Donald Wurst
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, July 05, 2003 8:34 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-Discussion] just saying hi (introduction)


I have been "listening" in for the past week, and decided I'd be polite and say hello (HI!) and introduce myself, since I plan on sticking around for awhile (like the next 18 yrs, LOL!).

I live on a small (very small <G>) farm in northeastern CT with my DH of 15 yrs, our 2 young sons, and a house and barnyard full of critters. We raise sheep and angora rabbits and Collies, and I work at home teaching herding and dog obedience lessons. (I also run a cottage industry producing fiber for hand-spinners, but have sort of put that project on the back-burner while the kids are small.)

We are early in our unschooling journey -- Jacob is 2 1/2 yrs and Gabriel is 4 mos. I am very passionate about and committed to unschooling our kids, DH is a little more skeptical (tho he'll come around eventually <G>). His biggest concern is not limiting their future potential, so I've been trying to find websites, etc, that talk about what unschoolers are doing in their adult lives. If anyone has any relevant sites to share, I'd love to know about them!

I've been enjoying reading the posts and following the links, and look forward to the support and ideas that this list is sure to generate for me over the upcoming years! I am particularly interested in meeting other unschoolers in CT, and other folks who are Unpreschooling.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Kimberly

Welcome Shelley!

I'm Kim from Enfield, Connecticut. My dh for 15 years and I have a
wonderful ds who will be 14 this December.

Kim



<<I live on a small (very small <G>) farm in northeastern CT with my
DH of 15 yrs, our 2 young sons, and a house and barnyard full of
critters. We raise sheep and angora rabbits and Collies, and I work
at
home teaching herding and dog obedience lessons

Mary

From: "Shelley & Donald Wurst" <harvest.moon@...>

<< We are early in our unschooling journey -- Jacob is 2 1/2 yrs and Gabriel
is 4 mos. I am very passionate about and committed to unschooling our kids,
DH is a little more skeptical (tho he'll come around eventually <G>). >>


I too came to homeschooling and joining a local support group when Joseph
(now 8) was only 2. Within that year my husband and I were convinced that
unschooling was the way to go. I think for us, having children so young and
not near that dreaded "school age" was a good thing. We had plenty of time
to ask questions, read information and bounce our own ideas back and forth
without feelig like there was a time limit or having family and well meaning
friends looking down their noses at us. By the time they all did that, we
knew what we wanted for our kids and had the answers to shut them up!!!!

Plus so much of unschooling can be seen so clearly when the kids are young.
The whole child led idea is so easy to see when the kids are walking and
talking without us "teaching" them to do it. Once they hit school age or are
already in school, I think it may be harder for some. Getting rid of school
mentality is harder than some might think. <BG>

Welcome.

Mary B

Shelley & Donald Wurst

>I'm Karen (in case you missed my intro). I have a 3 1/2 year old dd, Brogan Elizabeth - we live in >Southeastern CT (Groton)

Hi Karen! So nice to meet you! I'm sure we'll have lots to talk about as our kids grow and learn! :-)

>Next year in August there's going to be an Unschooling Conference just north of Boston - I'd >highly recommend attending it should answer a lot of your dh's questions / concerns.

Thanks! Yes, we are definitely planning on attending -- I already told DH that he needs to book his vacation around that event!

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2003 8:36:41 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
harvest.moon@... writes:


> I live on a small (very small <G>) farm in northeastern CT with my DH of 15
> yrs, our 2 young sons, and a house and barnyard full of critters. We raise
> sheep and angora rabbits and Collies, and I work at home teaching herding and
> dog obedience lessons. (I also run a cottage industry producing fiber for
> hand-spinners, but have sort of put that project on the back-burner while the
> kids are small.)
>

Welcome, Shelley---you could be my new best friend! <G>

We're looking at land now to start our farm. We'll have alpacas, though,
rather than sheep---but angora rabbits and some kind of working dogs---probably
Kuvaszok.

You might like to join us in SC for the Unschooling Conference---your husband
could meet real live unschoolers and their parents---and maybe put his fears
to rest! http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org/2003conference.html

I'm glad you're here!

~Kelly


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>Welcome Shelley!
>
>I'm Kim from Enfield, Connecticut. My dh for 15 years and I have a
>wonderful ds who will be 14 this December.

Thanks, Kim, and hi!! We're practically neighbors! I'm in West Stafford, almost on the Somer's line.

Don't suppose your DS likes doing farm chores and playing with dogs does he? The wonderful teen who used to help us out as our part-time "farm hand" left this past year for college (she's such a COOL kid, despite being public-schooled <G>). She's a real free-spirit and really loves animals, and we loved having her around -- she worked for us since she was 12. Having scaled back on our fiber business, we don't need as much help as we used to (at the moment anyway), but still could use a hand a few hours a week if we found the right self-motivated kid.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>Welcome, Shelley---you could be my new best friend! <G>

:-) Thanks for the welcome, Kelly!

>We're looking at land now to start our farm. We'll have alpacas, though,
>rather than sheep---but angora rabbits and some kind of working dogs---probably
>Kuvaszok.

We should have plenty to talk about!! What part of the country are you setting up in?

>You might like to join us in SC for the Unschooling Conference

I WISH I could -- but DH doesn't have any vacation time to take this year (still owes them time back for the time he was off when Gabe was born), and we are currently "between farm-hands" so it's not currently possible for both of us to be away from home at the same time for more than about 8 hrs. (The one down side to having so many animals -- well, the feed bills are sort of a down side too! LOL) Fortunately, next year's conference is practically in our back yards, so we will definitely be attending that one!

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

Thanks for the welcome, Mary!

>I too came to homeschooling and joining a local support group when Joseph
>(now 8) was only 2. Within that year my husband and I were convinced that
>unschooling was the way to go.

I used to teach school-group classes at a Science Museum, and then at a Demonstration Farm/Nature Center. The difference in enthusiasm, participation, and general behavior of the children was STRIKINGLY different between public school groups and home-school groups. Kindergarten and first grade levels were pretty similar -- all the kids were very enthusiastic about the topic matter, readily volunteered answers and suggestions, and were absolute delights to speak with. By the time 2nd and 3rd grade levels came, the public-school kids were much rowdier, less enthusiastic, and were volunteering less and were much more easily distractable. 3rd and 4th graders were even more so, and there was a scale up to middle school/high school level, where the kids all sat slumped in their chairs and nobody volunteered. UGH, what a nightmare for a program presenter!!! But the home-school groups, regardless of the age level, were ALL enthusiastic and increasingly brimming with knowledge and a thirst for learning. Didn't take a rocket scientist to see what the reasons for that difference is!

>I think for us, having children so young and
>not near that dreaded "school age" was a good thing. We had plenty of time
>to ask questions, read information and bounce our own ideas back and forth
>without feelig like there was a time limit or having family and well meaning
>friends looking down their noses at us. By the time they all did that, we
>knew what we wanted for our kids and had the answers to shut them up!!!!

:-) I'm hoping I'll be able to come up with some ideas of what to say to my in-laws when the subject comes up eventually (as my kids not starting school will become evident at some point! LOL). Will be hard for them I think, they are both teachers (and believe strongly in public schooling). I don't exactly see eye-to-eye with them on a lot of issues (like everything, LOL), so have not even broached the subject with them yet. Am dreading that eventuality. I actually suspect that's part of DH's problems with the idea, as it's bound to be a real bone of contention between them, and he's going to need to feel confident about the decision in order to support it.

>Plus so much of unschooling can be seen so clearly when the kids are young.

This is SO true! If I'd had any doubts before (tho really, I never did -- 15 years before I even tried to get pregnant I knew I'd be homeschooling my kids, and as soon as I started to read about unschooling, I knew that this was definitely the way to go!), they would have been completely banished just by interacting with my toddler on a daily basis.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2003 8:37:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
harvest.moon@... writes:

> I live on a small (very small <G>) farm in northeastern CT with my DH of 15
> yrs, our 2 young sons, and a house and barnyard full of critters. We raise
> sheep and angora rabbits and Collies, and I work at home teaching herding and
> dog obedience lessons. (I also run a cottage industry producing fiber for
> hand-spinners, but have sort of put that project on the back-burner while the
> kids are small.)
>
Shelly, how many acres do you have? We live on a farm in West Virginia. We
raise sheep and kids (we're foster parents) and of course veggies and
chickens. How many head do you have? Currently we have 2 angora goats, 2 milk goats,
2 adult sheep, and 14 lambs. The sheep population will be less in the fall
though. What breed do you raise? Ours are a motley crew of mixes (mostly
suffolk, jacob, coopworth.) Just did most of my own shearing this year...what a
job! We have 40+ acres, but probably only about 8 of that is cleared.
However, we lease the other half of this farm (the owner lost our half in a divorce,
we bought it) and it has probably another 15 acres of field/meadow. I'd like
to learn more about herding dogs. Other than a night time enclosure used
during lambing time, we have no fencing (at this moment) and we basically
"shepherd" our animals throughout the day (we have no neighbors and the sheep stick
around on our farm.)

I look forward to your posts! :o)
Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/6/2003 9:07:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
harvest.moon@... writes:


> We should have plenty to talk about!! What part of the country are you
> setting up in?
>

Mountains of NC. WAY too cold in your neck of the woods! <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/03 8:37:00 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
harvest.moon@... writes:

> , DH is a little more skeptical (tho he'll come around eventually <G>).
> His biggest concern is not limiting their future potential,

I so look at unschooling as just the opposite. I believe that "school" so
limits your potential. You are told what to learn and when and how. No one
celebrates your uniqueness. Or encourages your individual interests.

My boys have no fear about learning new things because they have never been
told that it isn't their "grade level" or isn't "age appropriate." They
explore anything and everything at times. LOL. Unschooling is so non limiting.
Pam G.


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Betjeman and Barton Tea Merchants

****we don't need as much help as we used to (at the moment anyway), but still could use a hand a few hours a week if we found the right self-motivated kid.******


Hey Shelley

If you need an inquisitive 3 1/2 year old to help out let me know :-) She's self-motivated but probably not in the direction you'd need LOL

Karen (in CT)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**:-) I'm hoping I'll be able to come up with some ideas of what to say
to my in-laws when the subject comes up eventually (as my kids not
starting school will become evident at some point! LOL). Will be hard
for them I think, they are both teachers (and believe strongly in public
schooling). I don't exactly see eye-to-eye with them on a lot of issues
(like everything, LOL), so have not even broached the subject with them
yet. Am dreading that eventuality. I actually suspect that's part of
DH's problems with the idea, as it's bound to be a real bone of
contention between them, and he's going to need to feel confident about
the decision in order to support it.**


I was not very courageous about being "out" about this with my in-laws
in the beginning. I decided to unschool before my son was 3, but I hid
my intentions and didn't mention it to my in-laws until he didn't start
kindergarden. It was helpful to me that my husband was strongly in
favor of unschooling. Has your dh had the opportunity to meet
homeschooled or unschooled kids, like at a local hs support group? As
you experienced, it's pretty clear overall that homeschooled kids are
bright and emotionally healthy. They are the most convincing "sales
pitch" I think we can ever have for homeschooling. Giving your dh some
first hand experience with these kids could be very persuasive.

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/6/03 7:24:31 AM, harvest.moon@... writes:

<< I don't exactly see eye-to-eye with them on a lot of issues (like
everything, LOL), so have not even broached the subject with them yet. Am dreading
that eventuality. >>

I think you should calligraph this, frame it and send it to them:

"I used to teach school-group classes at a Science Museum, and then at a
Demonstration Farm/Nature Center. The difference in enthusiasm, participation,
and general behavior of the children was STRIKINGLY different between public
school groups and home-school groups. Kindergarten and first grade levels were
pretty similar -- all the kids were very enthusiastic about the topic matter,
readily volunteered answers and suggestions, and were absolute delights to
speak with. By the time 2nd and 3rd grade levels came, the public-school kids
were much rowdier, less enthusiastic, and were volunteering less and were much
more easily distractable. 3rd and 4th graders were even more so, and there was
a scale up to middle school/high school level, where the kids all sat slumped
in their chairs and nobody volunteered. UGH, what a nightmare for a program
presenter!!! But the home-school groups, regardless of the age level, were ALL
enthusiastic and increasingly brimming with knowledge and a thirst for
learning. Didn't take a rocket scientist to see what the reasons for that
difference is!"

Sandra

Sarah

I didn't attend 6th grade through 12th grade and was not schooled at
home from about 7th grade level on. I went to college and graduated
highest gpa in my very competitive department in a respected state
university. Everything you need to know to get a degree in anything you
can take as college level classes. To get into a university without
going to high school, you simply need to take courses at a community
college first. It may be possible to go directly into a university
based on SAT scores, but I never had to take SATs so I don't know.
Sarah


> , DH is a little more skeptical (tho he'll come around eventually
<G>).
> His biggest concern is not limiting their future potential,




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/6/03 8:47:20 AM, genant2@... writes:

<< My boys have no fear about learning new things because they have never
been
told that it isn't their "grade level" or isn't "age appropriate." They
explore anything and everything at times. >>

My kids too. AND they don't have the fear of learning things "late" either.

Very cool and unexpected side-benefit.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/6/03 10:23:06 AM, irsarah.bean@... writes:

<< Everything you need to know to get a degree in anything you
can take as college level classes. To get into a university without
going to high school, you simply need to take courses at a community
college first. >>

Right, and not even always that.


<< It may be possible to go directly into a university
based on SAT scores, but I never had to take SATs so I don't know.
>>

In the early 1970's when I was a teenager in college, 18 or 19, I got my
sister, 15, who had dropped out of high school (or been thrown out--there was
contention, as the principal had met her in the hall, going to find her to throw
her out, when she met him at the corner on the way to his office saying "I
quit").

I was going to the University of New Mexico, which is "the big" state
university here. They wouldn't take her without her being the age of graduation.
But Highlands University, a smaller state school (the former "normal school")
did take her on probation, so that her staying there would be based on her
performance there.

That was way pre homeschooling-awareness. It was, though, in New Mexico,
which was bubbling with alternative education ideals in those days, and that
probably didn't hurt any.

If you're in your own state and you want to try a state college, they will
probably let you in just for you asking if you can try a semester, or six hours.

Sandra

Barb Eaton

Shelley,
We are planning to move to some property in the near future. (We live in
Ohiio) This obviously sparked a lot of questions and ideas for me to look
into. Do you breed the Collies or only teach the training? How much space
does this take? How far from town and a Vet are you? There is no way we
could do this where we are now but....Thanks for the great ideas and
answering some of my questions. :-)


Barb E
"The function of the child is to live his own life - not the life that his
anxious parents think he should live."
A S Neill




We raise
> sheep and angora rabbits and Collies, and I work at home teaching herding and
> dog obedience lessons. (I also run a cottage industry producing fiber for
> hand-spinners, but have sort of put that project on the back-burner while the
> kids are small.)
>
>
> --Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)

Sarah

It must depend on your major and how competitive it is to get in. Our
nearby state university is pretty darn competitive, and I can't imagine
they would let someone "off the streets" in who hadn't done any high
school or college. In fact, I know of many people who completed the GE
(general ed.) requirements at community college with B-average grades
and could not get in. Perhaps if they tried a less-popular major such
as forestry...
Sarah


If you're in your own state and you want to try a state college, they
will
probably let you in just for you asking if you can try a semester, or
six hours.

Sandra


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 7/6/03 11:57:21 AM, irsarah.bean@... writes:

<< It must depend on your major and how competitive it is to get in. Our
nearby state university is pretty darn competitive, and I can't imagine
they would let someone "off the streets" in who hadn't done any high
school or college. >>

Freshmen don't declare majors in any state university I've ever heard of.

And high schools are the major source of the information that high school is
necessary for college! <bwg>

<<In fact, I know of many people who completed the GE
(general ed.) requirements at community college with B-average grades
and could not get in. Perhaps if they tried a less-popular major such
as forestry...>>

Perhaps if they write a cover letter intriguing enough that the admissions
offers takes note, it won't matter. If someone's going in as a homeschooler or
unschooler, they need to SAY so! And make it cool! Colleges want diversity
and students who themselves will be an addition to the mix.

Sandra

Pamela Sorooshian

On Saturday, July 5, 2003, at 09:43 PM, Mary wrote:

> Plus so much of unschooling can be seen so clearly when the kids are
> young.
> The whole child led idea is so easy to see when the kids are walking
> and
> talking without us "teaching" them to do it. Once they hit school age
> or are
> already in school, I think it may be harder for some. Getting rid of
> school
> mentality is harder than some might think. <BG>

People were amazed at how quickly I seemed to absorb so much about
unschooling and totally 'get it" so quickly.

But the reason was that I'd been immersed my whole life in early
childhood education stuff which opposed early academics and put a huge
value on child's play and supporting young children's own innate
curiosity and love of learning. I was an early fan of David Elkind (The
Hurried Child, Miseducation, etc.) and I'd already said, a MILLION
times, "Why can't my kids just keep learning the way they have been?
WHY does everything have to change suddenly when they hit school age?"
I'd kept my kids out of school as long as I thought possible - I'd
moaned and groaned about it a lot - and then suddenly on the AOL
message boards there were Sandra and a bunch of others saying things
just like Mary wrote above and I just went WOW WOW WOW - these people
not only thought what I did, they acted on it!!! It was real. It was
amazing. I wasn't 100 percent convinced, not instantly, that they would
learn without any formal structure imposed by me and we did a couple of
unit studies first. For 4 weeks we did "oceans" and we had fun -- we
drew different kinds of whales - real size - with chalk out in the
street, listened to sea chanteys and made up, read "The Cay" and its
prequel, looked at different artists and paintings of oceans and ships
and such, went to Sea World, made science equipment and took it to the
beach with us (underwater viewers, plankton nets, etc). It was really
very fun. Then we did the American Civil war - because Roya and Rox had
just read Across Five Aprils and were into Civil War stuff. That was
okay - but not as much fun as going to the beach and Sea World, etc.
<G>. We did go to a civil war re-enactment which was cool. That was it
- by the end of that month the kids were busy with their own interests
and I couldn't find a good time to interrupt them to do another unit
study. So we really started unschooling the 3rd month of homeschooling.

-pam

Mary

From: "Pamela Sorooshian" <pamsoroosh@...>

<<It was real. It was amazing. I wasn't 100 percent convinced, not
instantly, that they would
learn without any formal structure imposed by me and we did a couple of
unit studies first.>>


I was always pretty amazed with myself (I'm allowed every now and then!)
when I got the unschooling idea from very early on. I think it was because
of a few things. Not in any particular order.

My husband and I had talked about our schooling lives a lot. He hated
school, wasn't good at it and was pretty much labeled loser there. He became
part of the party group and just passed by to graduate. The only thing about
school he did like was the friends he had and the fun they had skipping and
hanging out. I on the other hand, learned how to maneuver the system for me
to get through quite well. Making the grades came easy for me without trying
much and I learned how to get on the good side of most of my teachers. High
school was easy for me but I still hated it every step of the way. Most of
the subjects bored me to tears and I had no interest in them whatsoever. The
ones I did like I could only go so far in so I didn't "lose" the rest. I
hated the little school groups and popular and unpopular people put in them.
I didn't hang with many at all.

Tara at a very young age showed how extremely inquisitive and intelligent
she could be. She was an awesome kid, and when I "had" to put her in
preshcool, I saw that slowly get squashed. Elementary school was even worse
and this bright energetic kid was turning into mush before my eyes.

Thirdly, I had a very unscooling family right in front of me when I first
joined a support group. Her kids were already between 14-17. So it was very
easy for me to see how it all worked. She asked the same question over a
lot. Why??? Everytime someone wanted to do something or thought something
should be a certain way, she would ask why? I started to see how some people
couldn't answer that and some gave it great thought. It made sense to me.

So between that family, us seeing what was happening to Tara and our own
experiences in school, all the while watching Joseph and Sierra thrive on
just being kids, it was inevitable for us to get it all. We were lucky. I
just wish I would have known about this years ago. I mean way long ago. Not
sure I could have kept Tara home because of her dad, but I sure would have
given it a try.

And speaking of that, Miss Tara, big advocate of school, just yesterday
announced that she could have very easily, looking back now, given up school
all through junior high. But says she wouldn't want to miss high school.
Hey, there may be hope for my grandchildren yet!!!!

Mary B

Sarah

Cal Poly State University in San Luis Obispo (the only state U. I know
about since that's where I went) requires a declaration of major from
anyone applying, freshman or transfer, so that they compete only against
those in their major for admission. Like I said, though, this school
has some highly competitive departments. I am sure there are many state
universities that would happily accept a freshman with no transcripts of
high school or college.
I completely agree of course that high school is not necessary for
college (having not gone to jr. high or high school).
The intriguing cover letter would probably work very well for many
schools! Only problem with that would be schools (like Cal Poly) who
have a points-based system for admissions, awarding points for certain
classes completed, certain test scores, certain extra-curriculuar
activities, etc.) I am sure more progressive schools abound!
Sarah


Freshmen don't declare majors in any state university I've ever heard
of.

And high schools are the major source of the information that high
school is
necessary for college! <bwg>

<<In fact, I know of many people who completed the GE
(general ed.) requirements at community college with B-average grades
and could not get in. Perhaps if they tried a less-popular major such
as forestry...>>

Perhaps if they write a cover letter intriguing enough that the
admissions
offers takes note, it won't matter. If someone's going in as a
homeschooler or
unschooler, they need to SAY so! And make it cool! Colleges want
diversity
and students who themselves will be an addition to the mix.





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Shelley & Donald Wurst

Hi Nancy, nice to meet you!

>Shelly, how many acres do you have?

15, but most are still wooded. (I told you it was a SMALL farm! LOL) Not nearly enough pasture, we were working on clearing and then the kids came along so made that a lot more difficult. We will most likely be moving to a larger piece of historic family property (57 acres) eventually (all depends on how cooperative the family is about letting us live an unhindered lifestyle).

>We live on a farm in West Virginia. We
>raise sheep and kids (we're foster parents) and of course veggies and
>chickens. How many head do you have?

I currently have 15 adults and 10 lambs. But some of the adults will be sold, some of the lambs will be eaten, etc. I prefer to keep 15 or less thru the winter, as the cost of hay is ridiculous. At times I've had as many as 30 total, but that's really too many sheep for this property.

We also have laying hens (14) and ducks (also 14, but 5 are being sold). I'm currently down to a minimum number of angora rabbits (10), but at my peak production kept my level at around 50.

>What breed do you raise?

I was raising Border Leicesters -- started with Corriedales (and didn't like them), moved to BLs and Romneys (and crosses of the two), but I just liked the BLs better. At this point, I'm selling off the rest of my BLs and converting to Katahdins, which are a hair sheep (don't produce wool), because they are easier to care for and I don't need the wool since I've basically shut down the fiber business for the next few years. When I get back into wool sheep again I'll go with a rare breed -- both because there will be more demand for my fleeces, and also because I've become intersted in Conservation Genetics.

>Just did most of my own shearing this year...what a
>job!

:-) I sheared my own until I got pregnant with Jacob (even then I still sheared a few myself).

>I'd like
>to learn more about herding dogs.

I'm always happy to talk about herding and shepherding! :-)

>Other than a night time enclosure used
>during lambing time, we have no fencing (at this moment) and we basically
>"shepherd" our animals throughout the day (we have no neighbors and the sheep stick
>around on our farm.)

Wow, you don't have any predation problems?? We grazed unfenced areas with the dogs controlling them for quite a while until we got all of our open area fenced in -- will need to do it again when we move to the larger property. You can manage sheep (especially a small number) fairly well without dogs, but once you've done it with dogs you get lazy <G>.

Will look forward to discussing sheep and homesteading and raising kids with you! :-)

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>Mountains of NC. WAY too cold in your neck of the woods! <G>

LOL, Kelly! I highly encourage anyone thinking of setting up a homestead to do it in a warmed climate -- winters present many challenges up north! It's pretty, but man, hauling water is no fun task. Neither is shoveling out gates and barn doors.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>I so look at unschooling as just the opposite. I believe that "school" so
>limits your potential. You are told what to learn and when and how. No one
>celebrates your uniqueness. Or encourages your individual interests.

Thanks, Pam, I totally agree. DH will too eventually! :-)

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>If you need an inquisitive 3 1/2 year old to help out let me know :-) She's self-motivated but >probably not in the direction you'd need LOL

LOL!!! I've got enough of THAT kind of help, thanks!! LOL

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>Has your dh had the opportunity to meet
>homeschooled or unschooled kids, like at a local hs support group? As
>you experienced, it's pretty clear overall that homeschooled kids are
>bright and emotionally healthy. They are the most convincing "sales
>pitch" I think we can ever have for homeschooling. Giving your dh some
>first hand experience with these kids could be very persuasive.

Thanks, Betsy, that's excatly what I plan on doing. :-) I have no doubt once he's had a chance to experience kids and parents that actually have taken this approach to learning that his hesitations will dissappear.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>I think you should calligraph this, frame it and send it to them:

<G> Thanks, Sandra! You actually reminded me to read it to DH! I haven't expressed MY reasons for wanting this to him recently, so when I read what I wrote about why I want to do this to him, he said he's sure I've told him that before but it didn't really sink in.

In the past he's said that he's not confident in HIS teaching skills -- he doesn't see the difference between teacher and facilitator yet. But he's not done the reading and thinking about this I have. He generally has a fairly open mind, he'll come around! :-)

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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