cheryl

Okay, the e-mail I'm responding to is 5 days old, but I'm trying to catch up!

We've just finished three Nancy Drew mysteries on tape - all that our library archives had to offer. The Hidden Staircase, Mystery At Shadow Ranch, and The Secret In the Old Clock. Forrest (12) and Meredith (10) both thought The Hidden Staircase was the best of the three.

They did not start with #1 (Old Clock), and it didn't seem to make a difference.
Right now, Harry Potter's filling in, but we hope to find more Nancy when we finish with Harry!

CherylN






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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/5/2003 5:19:47 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
cnorthey@... writes:

> The Hidden Staircase, Mystery At Shadow Ranch, and The Secret In the Old
> Clock. Forrest (12) and Meredith (10) both thought The Hidden Staircase was
> the best of the three.
>

Thanks!

Holly wants to wait until she finishes The Doll People to get another book,
but I do appreciate the reviews!

Sandra


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Shelley & Donald Wurst

I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention The Happy Hollisters series books. I absolutley devoured them when I was a kid. They are mystery books (along the same line as The Hardy Boys and Nancy Drew), but are solved by a whole family of kids (I think there were 6 or 8 of them) ranging in age from toddler to teen. REALLY neat books, were old when I was a kid (my Mom got my collection from a tag sale, but you should be able to find some somewhere -- Ebay maybe?). I cherish my set and can't wait for my kids to discover them!

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
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Fetteroll

on 7/6/03 8:49 AM, Shelley & Donald Wurst at harvest.moon@... wrote:

> I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention The Happy Hollisters series
> books. I absolutley devoured them when I was a kid.

Have you read them as an adult? I've heard people say that they, like the
Bobbsey Twins -- and the old Nancy Drews for that matter -- they have some
unpleasant stereotypes and attitudes towards blacks in them.

I think the attitudes are more upsetting for adults than kids, though. I
suspect for me as a child I must have skipped over them as unimportant to
the story or attributed them to past times since I didn't see those
attitudes in real life. It was just a bizarre concept to me that people
would be treated differently because of race. (The attitudes were there, of
course, but I didn't see them.)

Joyce

[email protected]

-=-> I haven't seen anyone on this thread mention The Happy Hollisters series
> books. I absolutley devoured them when I was a kid.-=-

I have all of them, I think, with my name written in them in my my ten year
old writing, and my eleven year old writing...

I read the first one to Holly, about when they move into their new house.
She liked it because their little sister is named Holly.

Next I started reading her the one about a Pueblo Indian man from New Mexico
who lives near them and they get to go to New Mexico. I hadn't read it since
I was little.

Even though I was editing the text as I was going (using his name or just
"he" or "him" where the book had REPEATEDLY said "the Indian," Holly kept looking
at me funny about it, and finally when the part came where there was an
archery contest and he won because he was Indian, Holly didn't want to hear any
more. I had let slip a few "the Indian" references and she said "Why are they
saying that?" I said "I guess there aren't too many people from New Mexico in
Ohio or wherever they are." I was trying to be conversational and casual
instead of saying "Because it's old-fashioned and lots of people were carelessly
racial in those days."

I was glad she was offended and didn't want to finish, though, because it was
driving me crazy.

In a message dated 7/7/03 2:37:13 PM, fetteroll@... writes:

<< I think the attitudes are more upsetting for adults than kids, though. >>

Holly was more bothered than I was, because for me it was "Oh yeah; that
stuff."

For her it's "WHAT!?"

Good for her.

Sandra

Shelley & Donald Wurst

>Have you read them as an adult? I've heard people say that they, like the
>Bobbsey Twins -- and the old Nancy Drews for that matter -- they have some
>unpleasant stereotypes and attitudes towards blacks in them.

Wow, no. I never picked up on that as a kid (but probably wouldn't, I suppose. I'll have to read them again and see if that's true -- I'd never heard that, but then again, I don't know many people who are even familiar with the series. Given the era they were written in, I suppose it wouldn't be too much of a surprise, but it never occured to me.

Thanks for the heads up, I'll let you know if it's true once I've had a chance to check it out!

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
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Shelley & Donald Wurst

>I had let slip a few "the Indian" references and she said "Why are they
>saying that?" I said "I guess there aren't too many people from New Mexico in
>Ohio or wherever they are." I was trying to be conversational and casual
>instead of saying "Because it's old-fashioned and lots of people were carelessly
>racial in those days."

I was curious as to why you wouldn't want to use the second explanation? Seems like it would be a pretty straight forward, honest answer. Certainly will need to explain my parents' biases somehow (it's bound to come up eventually), and that seems like a pretty good answer -- conveys both how innappropriate and insulting those types of comments are without actually condemning the people saying them.

--Shelley, Mommy to Jacob (2 1/2 yrs) and Gabriel (4 mos)
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Harvest Moon -- harvest.moon@...
Working Rough and Smooth Collies
www.geocities.com/harvestmooncollies
------------------------------------------------------------------------


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/7/03 3:46:09 PM, harvest.moon@... writes:

<< I was curious as to why you wouldn't want to use the second explanation?
Seems like it would be a pretty straight forward, honest answer. Certainly
will need to explain my parents' biases somehow (it's bound to come up
eventually), and that seems like a pretty good answer -- conveys both how
innappropriate and insulting those types of comments are without actually condemning the
people saying them. >>

Because I want her to discover it on her own and be appalled, not know it so
early in her life that it's "just the way it was" or is or can possibly
continue to be.

Sandra

[email protected]

This seems to me to be a great learning experience. The books were great for
kids, they were also a reflection of their times, and provide a fantastic
chance to discuss the wrongness ( is that a word!?) of some things, and the
rightness, (same question! LOL) of other ethics. great lead in to so many other
topics of the time!
my two cents.
Teresa


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/7/03 8:20:47 PM, HSMOTGO@... writes:

<< This seems to me to be a great learning experience. The books were great
for
kids, they were also a reflection of their times, and provide a fantastic
chance to discuss the wrongness ( is that a word!?) of some things, and the
rightness, (same question! LOL) of other ethics. >>

Are you talking about Happy Hollisters?

If so, and if the ethics and interpersonal relationships are questionable,
what would "great for kids" mean then?

The mysteries are pretty lame.
The dialog is not sparkly.

I think in the balance, they're not great books.

When I was a kid they came in the mail, they were cheap, and I was reading
them by myself as an escape from being where I was. I think they were less
than $3 each with postage, and so a good deal for my dad, to feel like he was
furnishing me something educational.

But for Holly, they're a dusty corner of a big full-color, sweet-scented
world.

Sandra

[email protected]

I was actually talking about Nancy Drew. Those books were a great deal of
fun. I read Cherry Ames and Nancy Drew. I have always read for enjoyment, I
read to my kids for enjoyment. Great for kids because they were simple and
entertaining. If there are things in the books that you or yours find questionable,
then it is a good learning experience.
Teresa


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[email protected]

In a message dated 7/7/2003 10:22:22 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
HSMOTGO@... writes:

> I was actually talking about Nancy Drew. Those books were a great deal of
> fun.

I thought Nancy Drew was pretty progressive. Her dad didn't tell her to stop
doing what she was doing, and she was more likely to ask her boyfriend to
bring her a key or a file folder than anything else. And when she was in danger,
she called her female friend over her boyfriend most of the time.

Feminist fantasy, in the 60's.

The Happy Hollisters, though, are tagging along with their dad on some buying
trip or to visit friend of a friend, and while one of the themes was
geography and travel (which is cool) the author seemed not to consider that people
from those exotic locales might actually read the books too!

When McCloud was on, years ago, Dennis Weaver was playing a cop from Taos
who goes to NYC. It was a bummer, in the pilot episode, that he mispronounced
Taos. They have TVs in New Mexico. Even in Taos!

Sandra


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[email protected]

Sandra,
I see what you mean about the Hollisters, I never read them, and I should
have clarified in my first post that I was talking about Nancy Drew.
I remember McCloud, and most of the other tv shows of the time. No one
researched anything, they just wrote it, slapped it on tv and people went for it.
Hence the name "Ugly American" ?
People really do need to be more sensitive
to others, I think that is one reason that I don't post much, I am always
concerned that someone will take what I say the wrong way.
Anyway, I enjoyed Nancy Drew, never read the Hollisters. and am all for being
sensitive to others! LOL
Teresa


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