List Changes and Additions
Helen Hegener
Hello friends and listmembers!
In an effort to improve the services provided by the Unschooling.com
web site and Home Education Magazine, we've changed the name of this
list and added some new lists with an unschooling focus. This list is
now Unschooling-Discussion, and the new lists are:
Unschooling-Cafe
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Cafe
Unschooling-101
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-101
Unschooling-Resources
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Resources
Unschooling-Politics
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Politics
Unschooling-Creatively
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Creatively
Unschooling-Days
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Days
Descriptions can be found at each list's web site. You can join at
the web site or join via email by sending a blank message to
[email protected] (replace the word LISTNAME with
the name of the group you want to join.
We hope you'll try out some of our new, more focused unschooling
lists - while continuing to enjoy the wide-ranging discussions on
this great list!
sincerely,
Helen Hegener, listowner
HEM-Editor@...
Home Education Magazine/Unschooling.com
In an effort to improve the services provided by the Unschooling.com
web site and Home Education Magazine, we've changed the name of this
list and added some new lists with an unschooling focus. This list is
now Unschooling-Discussion, and the new lists are:
Unschooling-Cafe
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Cafe
Unschooling-101
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-101
Unschooling-Resources
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Resources
Unschooling-Politics
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Politics
Unschooling-Creatively
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Creatively
Unschooling-Days
http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Days
Descriptions can be found at each list's web site. You can join at
the web site or join via email by sending a blank message to
[email protected] (replace the word LISTNAME with
the name of the group you want to join.
We hope you'll try out some of our new, more focused unschooling
lists - while continuing to enjoy the wide-ranging discussions on
this great list!
sincerely,
Helen Hegener, listowner
HEM-Editor@...
Home Education Magazine/Unschooling.com
[email protected]
Joyce,
Are you moderating ALL of these?
~Kelly, NOT fishing for a job---just wondering how you could do all that!
Are you moderating ALL of these?
~Kelly, NOT fishing for a job---just wondering how you could do all that!
Nichole Fausey-Khosraviani
Great, I applaud you, Joyce. This may not be the list for me, but I came here to discuss unschooling. I'll stay for a little while to see how it goes.
Thanks, Joyce.
Best wishes,
Nichole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thanks, Joyce.
Best wishes,
Nichole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
Question????
So if we want to talk about what we did today or some new resource we found
should we subscribe to the other lists that are specifically for that and post
there? Kind of like a message board with different topics? Or do we continue
to use this list like we have been...for discussing things unschooling.
Pam G. (going to read the intro for this list to see if that changed.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
So if we want to talk about what we did today or some new resource we found
should we subscribe to the other lists that are specifically for that and post
there? Kind of like a message board with different topics? Or do we continue
to use this list like we have been...for discussing things unschooling.
Pam G. (going to read the intro for this list to see if that changed.)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I'm afraid responses to posts will bounce back now, if they came from the
other address, and most of my morning's mail was from that other list. After a
few days I guess that will be done.
For those people who complained about this list and specifically named me (I
know there were at least two), I won't go to the cafe list. 101, politics or
creatively, so there's where you can go if your goal is to be on a list where
I'm not. The "days" list kind of appeals to me since I have a collection, but
I don't know how well it will work to have it separate from the discussion.
I would also like to say for the record that there are a few people here who
are more radical about unschooling than I am, but they haven't been complained
about. I wrote to a small group of them a month or two ago and said I
thought they were going too far (for my comfort), farther than I would and I was
used to being the radical fringe!
La Leche League has the same double-level situation unschooling has. IS it
just about nursing babies? It is and it isn't. If people want to nurse
babies on a schedule, it's not going to work. If people want to nurse babies and
still see them as sinful, manipulative creatures, it's not going to work. So
La Leche League ends up involving itself in "loving discipline" and what
foods to go to as babies are weaning, and family bed, and sibling relations.
Not all of it is breastfeeding. Some women want to come JUST for breastfeeding
help. Thing is, they have no idea of what all will HINDER breastfeeding.
And so with this. Someone can be breastfeeding who is also leaving a baby to
cry himself to sleep and swatting kids for not doing what the mom says fast
enough. It won't change whether they're breastfeeding.
And so I know someone can be unschooling while still requiring kids to meet
schoolish goals, and without trusting the kids with other aspects of their
lives, and not having it change the parents' lives or beliefs. It's not the kind
of unschooling that will work well for years, though. It is, in my
experience, the kind of unschooling that leads to buying a curriculum or putting kids
back in school as failures to thrive at unschooling.
I don't know too many volunteers at La Leche League who would spend much of
their volunteer time saying "It doesn't matter how you treat your child when
he's not nursing, just so you nurse him."
And I'm a volunteer.
And I won't say what people want to hear just to give them a moment of
relative happiness. I'd rather say what I think their children need their mom to
hear to give them YEARS of greater happiness.
So I'm staying here.
Sandra
other address, and most of my morning's mail was from that other list. After a
few days I guess that will be done.
For those people who complained about this list and specifically named me (I
know there were at least two), I won't go to the cafe list. 101, politics or
creatively, so there's where you can go if your goal is to be on a list where
I'm not. The "days" list kind of appeals to me since I have a collection, but
I don't know how well it will work to have it separate from the discussion.
I would also like to say for the record that there are a few people here who
are more radical about unschooling than I am, but they haven't been complained
about. I wrote to a small group of them a month or two ago and said I
thought they were going too far (for my comfort), farther than I would and I was
used to being the radical fringe!
La Leche League has the same double-level situation unschooling has. IS it
just about nursing babies? It is and it isn't. If people want to nurse
babies on a schedule, it's not going to work. If people want to nurse babies and
still see them as sinful, manipulative creatures, it's not going to work. So
La Leche League ends up involving itself in "loving discipline" and what
foods to go to as babies are weaning, and family bed, and sibling relations.
Not all of it is breastfeeding. Some women want to come JUST for breastfeeding
help. Thing is, they have no idea of what all will HINDER breastfeeding.
And so with this. Someone can be breastfeeding who is also leaving a baby to
cry himself to sleep and swatting kids for not doing what the mom says fast
enough. It won't change whether they're breastfeeding.
And so I know someone can be unschooling while still requiring kids to meet
schoolish goals, and without trusting the kids with other aspects of their
lives, and not having it change the parents' lives or beliefs. It's not the kind
of unschooling that will work well for years, though. It is, in my
experience, the kind of unschooling that leads to buying a curriculum or putting kids
back in school as failures to thrive at unschooling.
I don't know too many volunteers at La Leche League who would spend much of
their volunteer time saying "It doesn't matter how you treat your child when
he's not nursing, just so you nurse him."
And I'm a volunteer.
And I won't say what people want to hear just to give them a moment of
relative happiness. I'd rather say what I think their children need their mom to
hear to give them YEARS of greater happiness.
So I'm staying here.
Sandra
Mary
From: <SandraDodd@...>
<<And I won't say what people want to hear just to give them a moment of
relative happiness. I'd rather say what I think their children need their
mom to
hear to give them YEARS of greater happiness.>>
I could have a whole lot to say about this post but sometimes short and
sweet is the best. And before I use the short and sweet I want to clarify
since I seem to be so hard to understand lately. This is meant as a good
thing and not a glad you aren't going elsewhere thing. I hope that's clear.
Now the short and sweet part.
Sandra, thank you!!!
Mary B
<<And I won't say what people want to hear just to give them a moment of
relative happiness. I'd rather say what I think their children need their
mom to
hear to give them YEARS of greater happiness.>>
I could have a whole lot to say about this post but sometimes short and
sweet is the best. And before I use the short and sweet I want to clarify
since I seem to be so hard to understand lately. This is meant as a good
thing and not a glad you aren't going elsewhere thing. I hope that's clear.
Now the short and sweet part.
Sandra, thank you!!!
Mary B
Jenny E.
From: <SandraDodd@...>
Namaste,
Jen :o)
Mom to Beck (7) and Dane (4)
> I won't go to the cafe list. 101, politics orWell, that is unfortunate for those of us that will be posting and asking questions there (specifically 101 for me) and do value your input. :o(
> creatively, so there's where you can go if your goal is to be on a list where
> I'm not.
Namaste,
Jen :o)
Mom to Beck (7) and Dane (4)
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/30/2003 1:47:29 PM Central Daylight Time,
mom2jrjedis@... writes:
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list.
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mom2jrjedis@... writes:
>I joined 101 myself as I still feel like a beginner and it seems like your
> Well, that is unfortunate for those of us that will be posting and asking
> questions there (specifically 101 for me) and do value your input. :o(
>
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list.
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: amycats2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 12:52 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] List Changes and Additions
I joined 101 myself as I still feel like a beginner and it seems like your
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list.
Amy Kagey
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
The first list I joined was MontanaUnschoolers. And, I joined because of their description.... for those who are unschooling and homeschooling for non-traditional reasons. I had no idea what UNschooling was. NONE! I thought the people on the list had way out ideas, but they were mostly very loving and they were not judgmental nor jumping down my throat each time I thought something was scary, crazy, or anything else. They helped me out, they held my hand and showed me, not just told me, how unschooling is better for children. I was warned about THIS list, the unschooling-dotcom@yahoogroups list, because it was not for the timid, not a support group, they say what they think without a sugar coating. So, when I joined the unschooling-dotcom list I did just hang out in the background and read. I learned a few things, but skipped the majority of the posts. One time I posted something about which I wanted seriously honest opinions and it was about my daughter leaving the yard without permission and the situation that followed. Many people on this list responded. Most apologized for what they were going to say before they said it. I was not offended by any of it, but had it been earlier in my research about unschooling, I may have been and those responses may have encouraged me change my mind about unschooling toward curriculum home based education.
So, I think Homeschool 101 should be for those very compassionate, kind, experienced and patient unschoolers who can help with encouragement and such. I think people need to be shown and not told, when they are beginners. And, if people are going to be posting on both lists, they will have to change their mindset, and I hope they will.
Nichole
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/30/03 12:47:29 PM, mom2jrjedis@... writes:
<< Well, that is unfortunate for those of us that will be posting and asking
questions there (specifically 101 for me) and do value your input. :o( >>
I'm on www.unschooling.com almost every day, and I have been collecting good
stuff here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/life
and I'll be on this list!!
Sandra
<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/unschooling">UNSCHOOLING</A>
<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/life">Parenting Issues for Unschoolers</A>
<< Well, that is unfortunate for those of us that will be posting and asking
questions there (specifically 101 for me) and do value your input. :o( >>
I'm on www.unschooling.com almost every day, and I have been collecting good
stuff here:
http://sandradodd.com/unschooling
http://sandradodd.com/life
and I'll be on this list!!
Sandra
<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/unschooling">UNSCHOOLING</A>
<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/life">Parenting Issues for Unschoolers</A>
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/30/03 12:56:25 PM, amycats2@... writes:
<< I joined 101 myself as I still feel like a beginner and it seems like your
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list. >>
If that's for beginners, this can be for intermediate and advanced. <bwg>
For the committed and the intense.
Sandra
<< I joined 101 myself as I still feel like a beginner and it seems like your
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list. >>
If that's for beginners, this can be for intermediate and advanced. <bwg>
For the committed and the intense.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/30/03 1:14:39 PM, ms_fausey@... writes:
<< compassionate, kind, experienced and patient >>
I'm all those things.
If you don't think I'm patient, talk to me again when (if) you finish twelve
years of being online helping other unschoolers! Most people don't make it
five years before they're disgusted with the same accusations and resistence.
But I'm not patient with bullshit. That's my impatience. If people really
want to know, I'll help them every day for months or years. If they just want
to tell us we're stupid and don't know anything they don't already know, I get
impatient pretty quickly.
Sandra
<< compassionate, kind, experienced and patient >>
I'm all those things.
If you don't think I'm patient, talk to me again when (if) you finish twelve
years of being online helping other unschoolers! Most people don't make it
five years before they're disgusted with the same accusations and resistence.
But I'm not patient with bullshit. That's my impatience. If people really
want to know, I'll help them every day for months or years. If they just want
to tell us we're stupid and don't know anything they don't already know, I get
impatient pretty quickly.
Sandra
Fetteroll
on 6/30/03 8:01 AM, kbcdlovejo@... at kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
But, honestly, I think the discussion list is the only one that needs (or
did need) moderating since it can turn, uh, nasty.
Maybe it won't be so nasty now!
Joyce
> Are you moderating ALL of these?Well, I hope not!
But, honestly, I think the discussion list is the only one that needs (or
did need) moderating since it can turn, uh, nasty.
Maybe it won't be so nasty now!
Joyce
Deborah Lewis
<< compassionate, kind, experienced and patient >>
***I'm all those things.***
And how! And patient in things I could never be patient in. More than
once I've complimented Sandra on her patience over some poster or other I
would have throttled if I'd been near enough.
I used to strive to be as patient as Sandra but I've come to realize I
don't have that wonderful ability.
I'm afraid to join the other lists because I couldn't bear it if an
unschooling list turned into a "there, there dear" kind of list where
hand holding and cooing was more important than telling the truth.
Anyway, yes, Sandra is patient, compassionate, kind and experienced.
She's also smart and funny and honest. She's cute, too. Dang! Some
people have it all. <g>
Deb L, who thinks there should be a "No stinking whiners!" list. <g>
***I'm all those things.***
And how! And patient in things I could never be patient in. More than
once I've complimented Sandra on her patience over some poster or other I
would have throttled if I'd been near enough.
I used to strive to be as patient as Sandra but I've come to realize I
don't have that wonderful ability.
I'm afraid to join the other lists because I couldn't bear it if an
unschooling list turned into a "there, there dear" kind of list where
hand holding and cooing was more important than telling the truth.
Anyway, yes, Sandra is patient, compassionate, kind and experienced.
She's also smart and funny and honest. She's cute, too. Dang! Some
people have it all. <g>
Deb L, who thinks there should be a "No stinking whiners!" list. <g>
Nichole
Deb L, who thinks there should be a "No stinking whiners!" list. <g>
I see I have pressed some buttons, though. Didn't mean to. Sorry.
If I had joined MontanaUnschoolers and got a bunch of lashing out women jumping down my throat, I think I'd still be trying to figure out how to make printing practice more enjoyable.
I'm not patient and nobody will ever accuse me of being patient. I think the people on my own Baha'i Unschoolers list would kick me off if they could.<G>
Even on this list I was extremely annoyed with the whole (not to open a can of worms) mannerliness/rankiness (rank i ness, guh!!!), and I think I was ignored for showing that. Telling people they needed to research, etc.
I think I'm off on a tangent and I've lost focus. haha Um....
Anyway... Sorry for offending.
I'm outta here.... for now.
Nichole
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Deb, I don't think anybody did a there, there, dear thing with me, but people were very nice and sweet on Montanaunschoolers when I couldn't listen to Just the Facts, Ma'am. Further, I wasn't accusing anyone on this list of being f*ck'd up to people. I remember Sandra being very nice, and direct with my problem, and you, too, but then I felt like a few people did take some sucker punches that I thought were uncalled for. I ignored their posts. I was clear in my post that I didn't know if I did the right thing and wanted people's honest opinions.
I see I have pressed some buttons, though. Didn't mean to. Sorry.
If I had joined MontanaUnschoolers and got a bunch of lashing out women jumping down my throat, I think I'd still be trying to figure out how to make printing practice more enjoyable.
I'm not patient and nobody will ever accuse me of being patient. I think the people on my own Baha'i Unschoolers list would kick me off if they could.<G>
Even on this list I was extremely annoyed with the whole (not to open a can of worms) mannerliness/rankiness (rank i ness, guh!!!), and I think I was ignored for showing that. Telling people they needed to research, etc.
I think I'm off on a tangent and I've lost focus. haha Um....
Anyway... Sorry for offending.
I'm outta here.... for now.
Nichole
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nichole
Sorry, Sandra, didn't mean to accuse you of being unfit for advising. No, I doubt I'll be here 12 years. I'm here mostly to learn.
I sincerely apologize.
Nichole
I sincerely apologize.
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 30, 2003 1:43 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-Discussion] List Changes and Additions
In a message dated 6/30/03 1:14:39 PM, ms_fausey@... writes:
<< compassionate, kind, experienced and patient >>
I'm all those things.
If you don't think I'm patient, talk to me again when (if) you finish twelve
years of being online helping other unschoolers! Most people don't make it
five years before they're disgusted with the same accusations and resistence.
But I'm not patient with bullshit. That's my impatience. If people really
want to know, I'll help them every day for months or years. If they just want
to tell us we're stupid and don't know anything they don't already know, I get
impatient pretty quickly.
Sandra
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***I see I have pressed some buttons, though. Didn't mean to. Sorry.***
No you didn't. This is a discussion list. That <g> (grin) after my
comment meant I was being funny. You missed it I guess, but you'd be one
of many. <g>
You didn't offend anyone. You stated your opinion on a discussion list
and had some replies to your post, that's all. What's a discussion list
for?
I know there are people who don't want to hear the straight poop. They
need to hear all the niceties and be validated for being a caring mother,
etc. I hope some of the other lists can do that for them and stay
focused on good unschooling advice and information, but I think a lot of
that kind of handling with kid gloves turns a list into a sympathy party
and not a good exchange of information.
I don't think people get jumped on here -- that's my opinion--- I think
they "feel" jumped on for various (personal, emotional, psychological)
reasons. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's difficult on a
discussion list.
It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who takes the discussion
of ideas personally. Saying "you could have made a better choice" is not
the same as saying "you're a bad mother" or "you're a booger head."
Some people don't seem to be able to see the difference.
Deb L
No you didn't. This is a discussion list. That <g> (grin) after my
comment meant I was being funny. You missed it I guess, but you'd be one
of many. <g>
You didn't offend anyone. You stated your opinion on a discussion list
and had some replies to your post, that's all. What's a discussion list
for?
I know there are people who don't want to hear the straight poop. They
need to hear all the niceties and be validated for being a caring mother,
etc. I hope some of the other lists can do that for them and stay
focused on good unschooling advice and information, but I think a lot of
that kind of handling with kid gloves turns a list into a sympathy party
and not a good exchange of information.
I don't think people get jumped on here -- that's my opinion--- I think
they "feel" jumped on for various (personal, emotional, psychological)
reasons. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it's difficult on a
discussion list.
It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who takes the discussion
of ideas personally. Saying "you could have made a better choice" is not
the same as saying "you're a bad mother" or "you're a booger head."
Some people don't seem to be able to see the difference.
Deb L
Julie Bogart
--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
Sandra, this a.m. I checked in quickly before a full day with my
kids. My first comment was going to be "I'll be on any list Sandra
is on." :D So I'm glad to stay put here.
Your advice has been the most helpful to me of all. I've enjoyed
tons of contributions, but your real life examples that you so
generously offer us (sharing your kids' lives) has given me the
clearest picture of unschooling as a lifestyle, not just a way to
educate kids.
with friends. As a leader, I can tell you that when moms would
ask how they can coordinate breastfeeding with working
full-time, I'd offer the advice with the caveat: It won't be the same
as nursing at home with your baby and here are the problems
you'll encounter. But if you will work and breastfeed, talk to these
people who can help you.
I didn't have the experience or the heart to spend a lot of time
learning about working and breast feeding. Some women did. it
just wasn't where I felt I could put my energy best and feel good
about it.
So I really udnerstand what you're saying.
Julie B
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> For those people who complained about this list andspecifically named me (I
> know there were at least two), I won't go to the cafe list. 101,politics or
> creatively, so there's where you can go if your goal is to be on alist where
> I'm not. The "days" list kind of appeals to me since I have acollection, but
> I don't know how well it will work to have it separate from thediscussion.
Sandra, this a.m. I checked in quickly before a full day with my
kids. My first comment was going to be "I'll be on any list Sandra
is on." :D So I'm glad to stay put here.
Your advice has been the most helpful to me of all. I've enjoyed
tons of contributions, but your real life examples that you so
generously offer us (sharing your kids' lives) has given me the
clearest picture of unschooling as a lifestyle, not just a way to
educate kids.
> La Leche League has the same double-level situationunschooling has. IS it
> just about nursing babies? It is and it isn't. If people want tonurse
> babies on a schedule, it's not going to work.Great analogy and one I return a lot as I think and talk about it
with friends. As a leader, I can tell you that when moms would
ask how they can coordinate breastfeeding with working
full-time, I'd offer the advice with the caveat: It won't be the same
as nursing at home with your baby and here are the problems
you'll encounter. But if you will work and breastfeed, talk to these
people who can help you.
I didn't have the experience or the heart to spend a lot of time
learning about working and breast feeding. Some women did. it
just wasn't where I felt I could put my energy best and feel good
about it.
So I really udnerstand what you're saying.
> So I'm staying here.Me too. Glad you are.
Julie B
Kimberly
<<Deb L, who thinks there should be a "No stinking whiners!" list. <g>
I have appreciated this list, all of it's help, and Sandra's
experience but to deny there has not been a bit of uncalled for
harshness is not telling the truth. No one is perfect, not you, not
Sandra, not myself.
Many at one time or another spoke in a way that did not show
maturity.
Me saying something tacky because I had a hard day, people being told
not to post, people being told to be quiet and criticizing the people
on the list for the way they feel is wrong. I don't think all were
asking to have their hand held.
While some on the list may be more experienced with unschooling,
history, speaking, writing, whatever, they still don't know it all
and
don't own the list. I've seen it happen with some on this list
including myself, say something wrong and watch out BUT they will
e-mail you off list and play the ever so nice person. You say this
list is truthful, I believe for the most part it is but I believe
there are some that are not.
Either way, I'm here and on all the other lists, free to post and
discuss what I wish in reagrd to unschooling, just like everyone else.
Kim
I have appreciated this list, all of it's help, and Sandra's
experience but to deny there has not been a bit of uncalled for
harshness is not telling the truth. No one is perfect, not you, not
Sandra, not myself.
Many at one time or another spoke in a way that did not show
maturity.
Me saying something tacky because I had a hard day, people being told
not to post, people being told to be quiet and criticizing the people
on the list for the way they feel is wrong. I don't think all were
asking to have their hand held.
While some on the list may be more experienced with unschooling,
history, speaking, writing, whatever, they still don't know it all
and
don't own the list. I've seen it happen with some on this list
including myself, say something wrong and watch out BUT they will
e-mail you off list and play the ever so nice person. You say this
list is truthful, I believe for the most part it is but I believe
there are some that are not.
Either way, I'm here and on all the other lists, free to post and
discuss what I wish in reagrd to unschooling, just like everyone else.
Kim
glad2bmadly
I'm a commited, intense beginner who is glad that you, Sandra, are commited and intense enough to have stuck it out here for so many years. I am so thankful that I made it here before you get burned out or are too busy writing a book to have time to write here!
Madeline
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 6/30/03 12:56:25 PM, amycats2@... writes:
<< I joined 101 myself as I still feel like a beginner and it seems like your
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list. >>
If that's for beginners, this can be for intermediate and advanced. <bwg>
For the committed and the intense.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Madeline
SandraDodd@... wrote:
In a message dated 6/30/03 12:56:25 PM, amycats2@... writes:
<< I joined 101 myself as I still feel like a beginner and it seems like your
input would be particularly helpful there, Sandra, but I can understand not
wanting to take on another list. >>
If that's for beginners, this can be for intermediate and advanced. <bwg>
For the committed and the intense.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Helen Hegener
Helen here. Listowner. Just thought I'd take a moment to share some
thoughts about this new change in direction for the old
Unschooling-dotcom list.
When we started this list in 1999 we envisioned a place where people
interested in unschooling could exchange ideas and experiences, ask
questions and get answers, share their joys and frustrations, and get
to know other people interested in how children (and adults) learn
and grow and learn some more. It has been tremendously satisfying to
watch this list become all that and even more, and to grow to become
the largest unschooling-related list at the largest list managing
service on the web, and far and away the largest list we at HEM
sponsor!
The success of this list is due in very large part due to our
wonderful moderator, Joyce. Her fierce dedication and hard work have
made this list what it is today, and her clear-eyed vision and
seemingly endless patience will continue to make it a wonderful place
for anyone interested in unschooling for years to come.
By changing the name of this list we hoped only to clarify the
intent, which is simply to discuss all aspects of unschooling, just
as the list has been doing since 1999. The new lists are for those
who want to explore a specific aspect of unschooling (like resources
or creativity), or to examine an issue in depth from an unschooling
perspective (like politics or how one lives day-to-day). Anyone is
welcome to discuss those same things on this list as well, and we do
not plan to tell people to, as an example, take their excitement over
a new book over to the Unschooling-Resources list. We might suggest
we share the resource with that list, but nothing related to
unschooling will be inappropriate for this list.
I've been a frequent contributor to this list in the past, and at
some point I probably will be again. But right now I'm spending the
summer travelling and I won't be reading or participating nearly as
much as I'd like to. I'll be around, though. I'll read great bunches
of posts at a time when I can, and every once in a while I might even
venture to post a reply or a comment. For the most part though, I'll
limit my posting to the new Unschooling-Politics list (political
action being my primary interest), and maybe the less-busy
Unschooling-Cafe list. On this list or another one, I'm sure I'll see
you around.
Thank you to *everyone* for your patience during this transition.
Kind regards,
Helen
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
Helen Hegener, Listowner
HEM-Editor@...
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
thoughts about this new change in direction for the old
Unschooling-dotcom list.
When we started this list in 1999 we envisioned a place where people
interested in unschooling could exchange ideas and experiences, ask
questions and get answers, share their joys and frustrations, and get
to know other people interested in how children (and adults) learn
and grow and learn some more. It has been tremendously satisfying to
watch this list become all that and even more, and to grow to become
the largest unschooling-related list at the largest list managing
service on the web, and far and away the largest list we at HEM
sponsor!
The success of this list is due in very large part due to our
wonderful moderator, Joyce. Her fierce dedication and hard work have
made this list what it is today, and her clear-eyed vision and
seemingly endless patience will continue to make it a wonderful place
for anyone interested in unschooling for years to come.
By changing the name of this list we hoped only to clarify the
intent, which is simply to discuss all aspects of unschooling, just
as the list has been doing since 1999. The new lists are for those
who want to explore a specific aspect of unschooling (like resources
or creativity), or to examine an issue in depth from an unschooling
perspective (like politics or how one lives day-to-day). Anyone is
welcome to discuss those same things on this list as well, and we do
not plan to tell people to, as an example, take their excitement over
a new book over to the Unschooling-Resources list. We might suggest
we share the resource with that list, but nothing related to
unschooling will be inappropriate for this list.
I've been a frequent contributor to this list in the past, and at
some point I probably will be again. But right now I'm spending the
summer travelling and I won't be reading or participating nearly as
much as I'd like to. I'll be around, though. I'll read great bunches
of posts at a time when I can, and every once in a while I might even
venture to post a reply or a comment. For the most part though, I'll
limit my posting to the new Unschooling-Politics list (political
action being my primary interest), and maybe the less-busy
Unschooling-Cafe list. On this list or another one, I'm sure I'll see
you around.
Thank you to *everyone* for your patience during this transition.
Kind regards,
Helen
<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>:<:>
Helen Hegener, Listowner
HEM-Editor@...
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com
Helen Hegener
At 8:01 AM -0400 6/30/03, kbcdlovejo@... wrote:
need moderators at some point down the road, but for the time being I
expect they'll function well enough without moderators, just as every
one of our other 32 lists are doing.
Helen
>Joyce,No. Joyce's only moderating duties are with this list. The others may
>
>Are you moderating ALL of these?
need moderators at some point down the road, but for the time being I
expect they'll function well enough without moderators, just as every
one of our other 32 lists are doing.
Helen
Helen Hegener
At 10:06 AM -0400 6/30/03, genant2@... wrote:
Helen
>Question????Either way would be fine.
>
>So if we want to talk about what we did today or some new resource we found
>should we subscribe to the other lists that are specifically for that and post
>there? Kind of like a message board with different topics? Or do we continue
>to use this list like we have been...for discussing things unschooling.
Helen
Mary
From: "Deborah Lewis" <ddzimlew@...>
<<I know there are people who don't want to hear the straight poop. They
need to hear all the niceties and be validated for being a caring mother,
etc. I hope some of the other lists can do that for them and stay
focused on good unschooling advice and information, but I think a lot of
that kind of handling with kid gloves turns a list into a sympathy party
and not a good exchange of information. >>
I would hope that too but I must say I'm not so sure they can that. Then
again I haven't been on every list there is out there!!
<<It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who takes the discussion
of ideas personally. Saying "you could have made a better choice" is not
the same as saying "you're a bad mother" or "you're a booger head."
Some people don't seem to be able to see the difference.>>
Boy you couldn't have said this at a better time for me. THANK YOU!!
Mary B
<<I know there are people who don't want to hear the straight poop. They
need to hear all the niceties and be validated for being a caring mother,
etc. I hope some of the other lists can do that for them and stay
focused on good unschooling advice and information, but I think a lot of
that kind of handling with kid gloves turns a list into a sympathy party
and not a good exchange of information. >>
I would hope that too but I must say I'm not so sure they can that. Then
again I haven't been on every list there is out there!!
<<It's difficult to have a discussion with someone who takes the discussion
of ideas personally. Saying "you could have made a better choice" is not
the same as saying "you're a bad mother" or "you're a booger head."
Some people don't seem to be able to see the difference.>>
Boy you couldn't have said this at a better time for me. THANK YOU!!
Mary B
Helen Hegener
At 2:20 PM -0400 6/30/03, SandraDodd@... wrote:
lots of listnames through YahooGroups without losing either messages
or replies.
for this list and unschooling, I have to say again here and now that
your sweeping across-the-board pronouncements about what is or isn't
unschooling are one of the reasons I quit trying to keep up with this
list. You all too often don't give people any room to think they can
grow or learn from their mistakes - as in the example above: I've
struggled with letting my kids cry themselves to sleep, and I've
swatted their butts for not moving when I thought they should. But I
learned, and changed, and others can too. Meet people where they are,
and not where you think they should already be.
in my case, or in many, many others. I'm a second-generation
unschooler, so I was *much* better prepared than 99% of the people
doing it today. Unschooling is so totally foreign to what most people
have experienced in their lives that it takes time and a few mistakes
to figure out what to do and how to do it. Even with my
having-been-unschooled background I blew it more often than I like to
think about when I was starting out with my kids. I was sure that
expecting them to buckle down and do bookwork was good for them, was
what I was *supposed* to be doing. And even today I wonder if one kid
would be a better speller if I'd *made* him put more effort into
it... for more about my doubts see my May/June HEM editorial:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/203.html
their children need for them to hear something different?
If people quit listening to you because you deny their needs, how are
you helping their children?
is without you. But please try to understand why so many people have
so much trouble accepting your good advice about unschooling. When
you hold up nine people who "got it" as examples of your success,
don't ignore that one person who didn't "get it" or write her off as
just being too difficult or hard-headed or whatever. Work on trying
to take your message to a level that even she can understand, and the
next ten people to come along will probably *all* benefit from your
effort.
That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask here for some
time now (if it's already been answered just point me back to the
archives and I'll hunt down the post): With all your teaching of
others how to unschool - or however you want to phrase what you do
here and through other means - what are you, yourself, learning about
unschooling and learning and helping other people and such?
Helen
>I'm afraid responses to posts will bounce back now, if they came from theI don't think anything will bounce anywhere, Sandra. I've changed
>other address, and most of my morning's mail was from that other
>list. After a
>few days I guess that will be done.
lots of listnames through YahooGroups without losing either messages
or replies.
>And so with this. Someone can be breastfeeding who is also leaving a baby toSandra, as much as I've always appreciated your advice and enthusiasm
>cry himself to sleep and swatting kids for not doing what the mom says fast
>enough. It won't change whether they're breastfeeding.
for this list and unschooling, I have to say again here and now that
your sweeping across-the-board pronouncements about what is or isn't
unschooling are one of the reasons I quit trying to keep up with this
list. You all too often don't give people any room to think they can
grow or learn from their mistakes - as in the example above: I've
struggled with letting my kids cry themselves to sleep, and I've
swatted their butts for not moving when I thought they should. But I
learned, and changed, and others can too. Meet people where they are,
and not where you think they should already be.
>And so I know someone can be unschooling while still requiring kids to meetOnce again, a sweeping pronouncement that didn't turn out to be true
>schoolish goals, and without trusting the kids with other aspects of their
>lives, and not having it change the parents' lives or beliefs. It's
>not the kind
>of unschooling that will work well for years, though. It is, in my
>experience, the kind of unschooling that leads to buying a
>curriculum or putting kids
>back in school as failures to thrive at unschooling.
in my case, or in many, many others. I'm a second-generation
unschooler, so I was *much* better prepared than 99% of the people
doing it today. Unschooling is so totally foreign to what most people
have experienced in their lives that it takes time and a few mistakes
to figure out what to do and how to do it. Even with my
having-been-unschooled background I blew it more often than I like to
think about when I was starting out with my kids. I was sure that
expecting them to buckle down and do bookwork was good for them, was
what I was *supposed* to be doing. And even today I wonder if one kid
would be a better speller if I'd *made* him put more effort into
it... for more about my doubts see my May/June HEM editorial:
http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/203.html
>And I won't say what people want to hear just to give them a moment ofHow about saying what they need to hear followed by why you think
>relative happiness. I'd rather say what I think their children need
>their mom to
>hear to give them YEARS of greater happiness.
their children need for them to hear something different?
If people quit listening to you because you deny their needs, how are
you helping their children?
>So I'm staying here.Good. I'm glad you're staying, because this list wouldn't be what it
is without you. But please try to understand why so many people have
so much trouble accepting your good advice about unschooling. When
you hold up nine people who "got it" as examples of your success,
don't ignore that one person who didn't "get it" or write her off as
just being too difficult or hard-headed or whatever. Work on trying
to take your message to a level that even she can understand, and the
next ten people to come along will probably *all* benefit from your
effort.
That reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask here for some
time now (if it's already been answered just point me back to the
archives and I'll hunt down the post): With all your teaching of
others how to unschool - or however you want to phrase what you do
here and through other means - what are you, yourself, learning about
unschooling and learning and helping other people and such?
Helen
Kimberly
--- In [email protected], Helen Hegener
<HEM-Editor@h...> wrote:
<<The success of this list is due in very large part due to our
wonderful moderator, Joyce. Her fierce dedication and hard work have
made this list what it is today, and her clear-eyed vision and
seemingly endless patience will>>
So True! Thank-you Joyce for making this list such a success and for
having so much patience.
<<I've been a frequent contributor to this list in the past, and at
some point I probably will be again. Kind regards, Helen>>
And thank-you Helen for creating this list, I look forward to hearing
your wisdom some day.
Kim
<HEM-Editor@h...> wrote:
<<The success of this list is due in very large part due to our
wonderful moderator, Joyce. Her fierce dedication and hard work have
made this list what it is today, and her clear-eyed vision and
seemingly endless patience will>>
So True! Thank-you Joyce for making this list such a success and for
having so much patience.
<<I've been a frequent contributor to this list in the past, and at
some point I probably will be again. Kind regards, Helen>>
And thank-you Helen for creating this list, I look forward to hearing
your wisdom some day.
Kim
Home Education Magazine
At 3:43 PM -0400 6/30/03, SandraDodd@... wrote:
Helen
>If you don't think I'm patient, talk to me again when (if) you finish twelveOkay. I'm qualified. You're on. <g>
>years of being online helping other unschoolers!
Helen
Deborah Lewis
***You all too often don't give people any room to think they can
grow or learn from their mistakes...***
I don't see that at all.
I think letting a person know there are better, happier ways to live with
children shows the utmost faith that person is a growing, thinking,
learning individual. If she didn't think they could grow and learn why
bother at all to give them information they may have never heard before?
I don't think anyone would spend years giving advice and information and
examples of unschooling if she didn't believe with her whole heart that
people could learn better ways to parent.
She writes with loving respect about her own children and her wonder and
amazement at their growing selves and shares that with anyone who can't
picture life without authoritarian rulership of children.
I am and will be eternally grateful to Sandra in so many ways I can't
even articulate.
Dang, your post bummed me Helen. I'll get over it, but, dang.
Deb L
grow or learn from their mistakes...***
I don't see that at all.
I think letting a person know there are better, happier ways to live with
children shows the utmost faith that person is a growing, thinking,
learning individual. If she didn't think they could grow and learn why
bother at all to give them information they may have never heard before?
I don't think anyone would spend years giving advice and information and
examples of unschooling if she didn't believe with her whole heart that
people could learn better ways to parent.
She writes with loving respect about her own children and her wonder and
amazement at their growing selves and shares that with anyone who can't
picture life without authoritarian rulership of children.
I am and will be eternally grateful to Sandra in so many ways I can't
even articulate.
Dang, your post bummed me Helen. I'll get over it, but, dang.
Deb L
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/30/2003 6:29:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
HEM-Editor@... writes:
give my opinion...but....
It seems like this list (Discussion), Creatively, Cafe, Days and maybe even
Politics (but for certain the first 3) are too much the same. Not complaining,
but I think I'll just stick with this list because I've seen message boards
divided, subdivided, and splintered only to end up with one folder that is so
busy and lively everyone goes there, and a bunch of others that are barely
visited. I would almost bet that's what will happen on these lists. Maybe not
:o)
101 could be a good thing, but will probably end up with the same questions
being answered over and over and over again..."What exactly is unschooling?"
"Do you use a curriculum?" I honestly feel the best thing newbies can be told
is to refer to the unschooling.com site to read, read, and read some more.
I think "resources" will be helpful, and if I, personally, join any others it
will probably be that one.
I vaguely remember questions about what people want from an email list, and I
must have missed that this list was going to be divided. Which list do you
think will cover "parenting" the most?
Truly not complaining, just offering some input. OK, I am a little sad that
things will be all divided up now :o( People will probably refer to
discussions at other lists, and unless we are subscribed to all of them (which I just
physically, mentally, and time wise, cannot do) the discussions will be
disconnected.
I do know that all this was done with good intentions, though, and I'm sure
it will work out for some people. I'm happy for them...*sniff sniff* *wimper*
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
HEM-Editor@... writes:
> Unschooling-CafeAs someone that hasn't been a member of this list long, I really hesitate to
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Cafe
>
> Unschooling-101
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-101
>
> Unschooling-Resources
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Resources
>
> Unschooling-Politics
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Politics
>
> Unschooling-Creatively
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Creatively
>
> Unschooling-Days
> http://groups.yahoo.com/groups/Unschooling-Days
>
give my opinion...but....
It seems like this list (Discussion), Creatively, Cafe, Days and maybe even
Politics (but for certain the first 3) are too much the same. Not complaining,
but I think I'll just stick with this list because I've seen message boards
divided, subdivided, and splintered only to end up with one folder that is so
busy and lively everyone goes there, and a bunch of others that are barely
visited. I would almost bet that's what will happen on these lists. Maybe not
:o)
101 could be a good thing, but will probably end up with the same questions
being answered over and over and over again..."What exactly is unschooling?"
"Do you use a curriculum?" I honestly feel the best thing newbies can be told
is to refer to the unschooling.com site to read, read, and read some more.
I think "resources" will be helpful, and if I, personally, join any others it
will probably be that one.
I vaguely remember questions about what people want from an email list, and I
must have missed that this list was going to be divided. Which list do you
think will cover "parenting" the most?
Truly not complaining, just offering some input. OK, I am a little sad that
things will be all divided up now :o( People will probably refer to
discussions at other lists, and unless we are subscribed to all of them (which I just
physically, mentally, and time wise, cannot do) the discussions will be
disconnected.
I do know that all this was done with good intentions, though, and I'm sure
it will work out for some people. I'm happy for them...*sniff sniff* *wimper*
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 30/06/2003 13:13:07 Pacific Daylight Time,
ddzimlew@... writes:
Nancy in BC, chortling quietly to myself, and nodding in agreement
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ddzimlew@... writes:
> Deb L, who thinks there should be a "No stinking whiners!" list. <g>Please, sign me up for this one!!!!
>
Nancy in BC, chortling quietly to myself, and nodding in agreement
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]