Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 3765
Paula Sjogerman
on 6/25/03 10:58 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
thing I ever heard! I love milk! I've been drinking it all my life and it is
good for me! You are hurting my feelings by talking about this!!!!!"
Gotta love those teens <gg>.
Paula, off to buy some Dial soap
[email protected] wrote:
> I'd consider encouraging her to do a trial of dairy-free eating.This was her response to the idea of going milk-free: "That is the stupidest
thing I ever heard! I love milk! I've been drinking it all my life and it is
good for me! You are hurting my feelings by talking about this!!!!!"
Gotta love those teens <gg>.
Paula, off to buy some Dial soap
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/25/2003 11:20:58 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
Radical intervention for Unschooler's clutter and mess. <g>
That's two...
~~~ Becky~~~
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
---Theodore Roosevelt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> What are *you* looking for in an unschooling list?Help unschooling teens who want to go to college.
Radical intervention for Unschooler's clutter and mess. <g>
That's two...
~~~ Becky~~~
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president,
or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only
unpatriotic and servile,
but is morally treasonable to the American public."
---Theodore Roosevelt
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
As much as I know I'll get flamed -
II think this post is decidedly hurtful. There are those of us who have researched and questioned; we have looked at the reports; we have shared these with you.
So - in the face of that - your daughter says "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." "You are hurting my feelings talking about this." (How is that possibly hurting her feelings?" ) Then with a seemimngly very smug attitude you dismiss it!! That's the weakest thing I've read all month.
Whether we like it or not -
Dairy products are filled with chemicals and poisons.
That's a fact.
Global agri-businesses are concerned with getting as much milk out of a cow as possible. They are pumped w/ so many things that the cows are unable to walk - they are all 'milk'. The agri-businesses support each other. This company sells chemicals to that company who sells machines to that company who run dairy farms. The global businesses are in bed together and yes, for the most part - it's the same group that owns the media.
The cows are not walked or washed. They are born, bred, drugged, milked, slaughtered and sold.
Rather than look into what is being said here.....it's dismissed.
Under what definition of open-minded is that?
Under what definition of intelligent is that?
I hate it that dairy products aren't good for humans. I absolutely hate it!! Why? Have you ever had Edy's Ice Cream? or Hagan Daz? During my moon period - I love chocolate ice cream.........
How about cheese?
My stars, if I had a dollar for every bag of Smart Food popcorn I've eaten....or a dollar for every cheese snack or cheese dish.....
But when I looked at the facts, really looked at the facts - dairy products are bad for us.
You can dismiss it - but that won't help your daughters skin.
I was lucky - I had great skin. - I had very little dairy, liots of vegetables, liots of fruits, lots of water, lots of excercise.
Refusing to examine what is the dairy industry...and what it does to us...... is just plain foolish.
That's not like you.
Janis
II think this post is decidedly hurtful. There are those of us who have researched and questioned; we have looked at the reports; we have shared these with you.
So - in the face of that - your daughter says "That's the stupidest thing I've ever heard." "You are hurting my feelings talking about this." (How is that possibly hurting her feelings?" ) Then with a seemimngly very smug attitude you dismiss it!! That's the weakest thing I've read all month.
Whether we like it or not -
Dairy products are filled with chemicals and poisons.
That's a fact.
Global agri-businesses are concerned with getting as much milk out of a cow as possible. They are pumped w/ so many things that the cows are unable to walk - they are all 'milk'. The agri-businesses support each other. This company sells chemicals to that company who sells machines to that company who run dairy farms. The global businesses are in bed together and yes, for the most part - it's the same group that owns the media.
The cows are not walked or washed. They are born, bred, drugged, milked, slaughtered and sold.
Rather than look into what is being said here.....it's dismissed.
Under what definition of open-minded is that?
Under what definition of intelligent is that?
I hate it that dairy products aren't good for humans. I absolutely hate it!! Why? Have you ever had Edy's Ice Cream? or Hagan Daz? During my moon period - I love chocolate ice cream.........
How about cheese?
My stars, if I had a dollar for every bag of Smart Food popcorn I've eaten....or a dollar for every cheese snack or cheese dish.....
But when I looked at the facts, really looked at the facts - dairy products are bad for us.
You can dismiss it - but that won't help your daughters skin.
I was lucky - I had great skin. - I had very little dairy, liots of vegetables, liots of fruits, lots of water, lots of excercise.
Refusing to examine what is the dairy industry...and what it does to us...... is just plain foolish.
That's not like you.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Paula Sjogerman
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 12:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 3765
on 6/25/03 10:58 AM, [email protected] at
[email protected] wrote:
> I'd consider encouraging her to do a trial of dairy-free eating.
This was her response to the idea of going milk-free: "That is the stupidest
thing I ever heard! I love milk! I've been drinking it all my life and it is
good for me! You are hurting my feelings by talking about this!!!!!"
Gotta love those teens <gg>.
Paula, off to buy some Dial soap
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Betsy
**Refusing to examine what is the dairy industry...and what it does to
us...... is just plain foolish.
That's not like you.**
Wait, Paula didn't say we were stupid. Paula's daughter thought that
the *idea* of her giving up dairy was "the stupidest idea ever", which,
having been a tempery teen myself, I think means she finds the idea
threatening and unpleasant. Her autonomy is important to her,
especially at this age.
Betsy
us...... is just plain foolish.
That's not like you.**
Wait, Paula didn't say we were stupid. Paula's daughter thought that
the *idea* of her giving up dairy was "the stupidest idea ever", which,
having been a tempery teen myself, I think means she finds the idea
threatening and unpleasant. Her autonomy is important to her,
especially at this age.
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/25/03 12:29:30 PM, jana@... writes:
<< Whether we like it or not -
Dairy products are filled with chemicals and poisons.
That's a fact. >>
You don't know where people's milk is coming from. SOME isn't all.
"Can be" isn't "is a fact."
There are local dairies where we can SEE the cows, outside, walking and
eating grass.
There are people raising goats and making their own cheese, without adding
poison.
Sandra
<< Whether we like it or not -
Dairy products are filled with chemicals and poisons.
That's a fact. >>
You don't know where people's milk is coming from. SOME isn't all.
"Can be" isn't "is a fact."
There are local dairies where we can SEE the cows, outside, walking and
eating grass.
There are people raising goats and making their own cheese, without adding
poison.
Sandra
Andrea
At 02:21 PM 6/25/03 -0400, Janis wrote:
her post as meaning that she is not going to force her daughter to give up
milk so is going to try something else.
like that here. The cows are out to pasture as much as possible and brought
in to be milked twice a day. I know it is likely different in more heavily
populated parts of the U.S. That is not to say they eat a pure diet here,
just that on the farms I have been to they are well treated.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia (B.Sc. Agriculture ;-)
>As much as I know I'll get flamed -I don't understand your reaction to Paula. I hope she clarifies, but I read
>II think this post is decidedly hurtful. There are those of us who have
>researched and questioned; we have looked at the reports; we have shared
>these with you.
>
>So - in the face of that - your daughter says "That's the stupidest thing
>I've ever heard." "You are hurting my feelings talking about this." (How
>is that possibly hurting her feelings?" ) Then with a seemimngly very smug
>attitude you dismiss it!! That's the weakest thing I've read all month.
her post as meaning that she is not going to force her daughter to give up
milk so is going to try something else.
>Whether we like it or not -I'm sorry if it is like that where you live. Dairy farms are definitely not
>Dairy products are filled with chemicals and poisons.
>That's a fact.
>Global agri-businesses are concerned with getting as much milk out of a
>cow as possible. They are pumped w/ so many things that the cows are
>unable to walk - they are all 'milk'. The agri-businesses support each
>other. This company sells chemicals to that company who sells machines to
>that company who run dairy farms. The global businesses are in bed
>together and yes, for the most part - it's the same group that owns the media.
>
>The cows are not walked or washed. They are born, bred, drugged, milked,
>slaughtered and sold.
like that here. The cows are out to pasture as much as possible and brought
in to be milked twice a day. I know it is likely different in more heavily
populated parts of the U.S. That is not to say they eat a pure diet here,
just that on the farms I have been to they are well treated.
>Rather than look into what is being said here.....it's dismissed.Again, I don't think Paula was dismissing it, just her teenage daughter.
>
>Under what definition of open-minded is that?
>Under what definition of intelligent is that?
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia (B.Sc. Agriculture ;-)
coyote's corner
Hi,
Thanks for your post. I'm referring to the agri-businesses that produce most of our dairy products. I know there are organic dairies. What dairy we (as a family) do use comes from one.
However, the bulk of the dairy - butter, cheese, yogurt that we ( as a nation) consume - the bulk of the dairy that gets added to our snacks, or that we get in restaurants - these come from agri-businesses. While it's true that I do live in New England - not exactly big sky country - I find it hard to believe that these massive places - "farms" w/ 100,000 cows and more are only selling to city folk.
It is, of course a personal choice whether or not to take any of this information seriously or dismiss it.
Be well,
Janis
Thanks for your post. I'm referring to the agri-businesses that produce most of our dairy products. I know there are organic dairies. What dairy we (as a family) do use comes from one.
However, the bulk of the dairy - butter, cheese, yogurt that we ( as a nation) consume - the bulk of the dairy that gets added to our snacks, or that we get in restaurants - these come from agri-businesses. While it's true that I do live in New England - not exactly big sky country - I find it hard to believe that these massive places - "farms" w/ 100,000 cows and more are only selling to city folk.
It is, of course a personal choice whether or not to take any of this information seriously or dismiss it.
Be well,
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 25, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: Cows, was - Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 3765
At 02:21 PM 6/25/03 -0400, Janis wrote:
>As much as I know I'll get flamed -
>II think this post is decidedly hurtful. There are those of us who have
>researched and questioned; we have looked at the reports; we have shared
>these with you.
>
>So - in the face of that - your daughter says "That's the stupidest thing
>I've ever heard." "You are hurting my feelings talking about this." (How
>is that possibly hurting her feelings?" ) Then with a seemimngly very smug
>attitude you dismiss it!! That's the weakest thing I've read all month.
I don't understand your reaction to Paula. I hope she clarifies, but I read
her post as meaning that she is not going to force her daughter to give up
milk so is going to try something else.
>Whether we like it or not -
>Dairy products are filled with chemicals and poisons.
>That's a fact.
>Global agri-businesses are concerned with getting as much milk out of a
>cow as possible. They are pumped w/ so many things that the cows are
>unable to walk - they are all 'milk'. The agri-businesses support each
>other. This company sells chemicals to that company who sells machines to
>that company who run dairy farms. The global businesses are in bed
>together and yes, for the most part - it's the same group that owns the media.
>
>The cows are not walked or washed. They are born, bred, drugged, milked,
>slaughtered and sold.
I'm sorry if it is like that where you live. Dairy farms are definitely not
like that here. The cows are out to pasture as much as possible and brought
in to be milked twice a day. I know it is likely different in more heavily
populated parts of the U.S. That is not to say they eat a pure diet here,
just that on the farms I have been to they are well treated.
>Rather than look into what is being said here.....it's dismissed.
>
>Under what definition of open-minded is that?
>Under what definition of intelligent is that?
Again, I don't think Paula was dismissing it, just her teenage daughter.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia (B.Sc. Agriculture ;-)
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/25/03 2:51:33 PM, jana@... writes:
<< It is, of course a personal choice whether or not to take any of this
information seriously or dismiss it. >>
Of course those aren't the only two choices.
<< It is, of course a personal choice whether or not to take any of this
information seriously or dismiss it. >>
Of course those aren't the only two choices.
Tia Leschke
> As much as I know I'll get flamed -researched and questioned; we have looked at the reports; we have shared
> II think this post is decidedly hurtful. There are those of us who have
these with you.
>I've ever heard." "You are hurting my feelings talking about this." (How
> So - in the face of that - your daughter says "That's the stupidest thing
is that possibly hurting her feelings?" ) Then with a seemimngly very smug
attitude you dismiss it!! That's the weakest thing I've read all month.
As much as I agree with lots of what you said here, Janis, I disagree that
Paula was being hurtful or smug. She made a suggestion to her teen who
dismissed it. The reality of teens is that there isn't much we can do when
they dismiss our suggestions. Maybe the girl will think about it and decide
to try going dairy free some other time, but it won't happen if her mother
keeps pushing the idea.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/25/2003 2:28:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
around here in VA. I've been to local dairy farms here and in SW VA. They are
VERY clean, they do wash the cows, the do graze in the pastures. I've seen it.
Maybe city cows don't graze but I've seen them in fields grazing in many
states.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jana@... writes:
> The cows are not walked or washed. They are born, bred, drugged, milked,Milk cows are generally NOT the beef sold in the store cows, at least not
> slaughtered and sold.
>
>
around here in VA. I've been to local dairy farms here and in SW VA. They are
VERY clean, they do wash the cows, the do graze in the pastures. I've seen it.
Maybe city cows don't graze but I've seen them in fields grazing in many
states.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Andrea
At 04:48 PM 6/25/03 -0400, Janis wrote:
milk, some of which I use to make yogurt. The milk we buy is not organic
but it comes from farms such as I described, not agri-business monster
farms. I believe part of the misunderstanding is that you are in the US,
and I am referring to the milk which is produced here in Nova Scotia, which
is also processed and packaged locally and delivered to our door.
write, and whether you trust, as you have no way of knowing, that I know of
what I speak. This is not a US list, it is an international one, and though
many things in Canada are simmilar to the US, the dairy industry is not one
of them.
I am not saying that what you said about agri-business cows is untrue. I am
saying that it is not true for all non-organic dairy farms, at least not in
Nova Scotia. I am not saying that everything is rosy in Nova Scotia dairy
farms, but it certainly is much better than the mega-farms you describe.
Now if you want to discuss chicken farms or hog farms - yikes! Those are
scary places. I really do have a degree in agriculture and most of what I
learned scared me. That's why I majored in soil physics.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia, Canada
>Thanks for your post. I'm referring to the agri-businesses that produceAlmost all the dairy we in my house consume is produced locally - mostly
>most of our dairy products. I know there are organic dairies. What dairy
>we (as a family) do use comes from one.
milk, some of which I use to make yogurt. The milk we buy is not organic
but it comes from farms such as I described, not agri-business monster
farms. I believe part of the misunderstanding is that you are in the US,
and I am referring to the milk which is produced here in Nova Scotia, which
is also processed and packaged locally and delivered to our door.
>It is, of course a personal choice whether or not to take any of thisIt is also a personal choice of yours whether you take seriously what I
>information seriously or dismiss it.
write, and whether you trust, as you have no way of knowing, that I know of
what I speak. This is not a US list, it is an international one, and though
many things in Canada are simmilar to the US, the dairy industry is not one
of them.
I am not saying that what you said about agri-business cows is untrue. I am
saying that it is not true for all non-organic dairy farms, at least not in
Nova Scotia. I am not saying that everything is rosy in Nova Scotia dairy
farms, but it certainly is much better than the mega-farms you describe.
Now if you want to discuss chicken farms or hog farms - yikes! Those are
scary places. I really do have a degree in agriculture and most of what I
learned scared me. That's why I majored in soil physics.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia, Canada
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/26/03 7:15:44 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
area. I've visited a few of them, been friends with the families who owned them.
The cows free graze til milking time ( twice a day) Then they come in to
be milked. They know thier routine, the cows will start in to the barn at
milking time. ( I do mean LOTS of cows, hundreds) They hook them up to milking
machines, its fascinating to watch. And dairy cows are definitetly not used
for beef, there are beef farms around here too. It could be a regional thing,
I don't know. The milk, eggs, meat and produce around here is generally
homegrown and sold locally. YUMMY!
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> The cows are not walked or washed. They are born, bred, drugged, milked,I've seen the same here in NC. There are several dairy farms in my local
> >slaughtered and sold.
> >
> >
>
> Milk cows are generally NOT the beef sold in the store cows, at least not
> around here in VA. I've been to local dairy farms here and in SW VA. They
> are
> VERY clean, they do wash the cows, the do graze in the pastures. I've seen
> it.
> Maybe city cows don't graze but I've seen them in fields grazing in many
> states.
>
> glena
>
area. I've visited a few of them, been friends with the families who owned them.
The cows free graze til milking time ( twice a day) Then they come in to
be milked. They know thier routine, the cows will start in to the barn at
milking time. ( I do mean LOTS of cows, hundreds) They hook them up to milking
machines, its fascinating to watch. And dairy cows are definitetly not used
for beef, there are beef farms around here too. It could be a regional thing,
I don't know. The milk, eggs, meat and produce around here is generally
homegrown and sold locally. YUMMY!
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]