Tim and Maureen

We backed Waaaayyyy off on "manners" - forcing children to attend to the emotional needs of adults is simply dangerous. Like "kiss Uncle Normie good night!" "Get over there and hug your aunt." Kids need to control there bodies, including their voices if they are to grow up to control their bodies/selves.

It's in the small subtle stuff too, but just the obvious big stuff.

My (panicky) thots

Tim T

----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 7:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Two Questions


From: <SandraDodd@...>

<< any advice? anything you would do differently? >>


I found with Joseph and Sierra., once in awhile a situation would come up
when I would think a thank you would be nice from them and they didn't say
it. It bothered me and I would do the whole "say thank you" thing and they
would say it then. I started to really think about it and why they didn't do
it and why it bothered me. My kids weren't really being rude at all. From
what I could see, they were just being kids and had no clue most of the time
that someone would be "expecting" a thank you or just very involved in the
moment or just having their brain be somewhere else. So I figured what's the
harm really? They're still kids and Tara certainly is very polite and where
did she get it from? Us and watching.

So now I just leave it to me doing what I feel is proper and sometimes I
just offer thank you's for them. Sierra can be very shy at times and
sometimes a thank you is just too much for her. I won't push that and I
won't "make them" offer politeness without sincerity. I know they will get
it eventually.

And if there are times when I think maybe with a friend something would have
been nice other than what was done, I'll talk to them about it. Reminding
them how when they do something for each other, they like to be thanked for
it and wouldn't it make someone else feel nice too? We do a lot of talking
here about our feelings with each other and then relating that to other
people as well. Asking how would that make you feel or what would be nice
for you to do??? They even like this kind of talking to, it gives them
another outlook on things and they like coming up with different ways or
wondering how other people would feel.

Mary B




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

--- In [email protected], Tim and Maureen
<tmthomas@s...> wrote:
> We backed Waaaayyyy off on "manners" - forcing children to attend
to the emotional needs of adults is simply dangerous. Like "kiss
Uncle Normie good night!" "Get over there and hug your aunt." Kids
need to control there bodies, including their voices if they are to
grow up to control their bodies/selves.
>
> It's in the small subtle stuff too, but just the obvious big stuff.
>
> My (panicky) thots
>
> Tim T

M'kay, this isn't something I'd thought of. children, meeting the
emotional needs of adults. Hmmm.

But I also don't make my kids hug someone they don't want to hug. But
I also don't think there's anything wrong with smoothing out the
rough edges, so to speak. perhaps with modeling the Propah Procedyah.
Perhaps with practicing it in a Faux Pas Party. Probably, a little of
both. Possibly, (but maybe not) throwing in a little dialogue about
not WANTING to give Uncle Normie a kiss, and in that role playing,
showing the kids that if they balk, mom isn't going to push it, but
inquire into their reasons for balking. IOW, giving them permission
to speak their mind if the hugging and kissing (or, for that matter,
the greeting and saying thank you) is uncomfortable for them.

HeidiC

Have A Nice Day!

Oh my,

I have an Aunt who gets all offended if the kids don't go give her a hug. My mom even got into the act once, which surprised me, but she has never done it since.

I have to say to the kids in front of her "its ok, you don't have to give a hug if you don't want to".

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Heidi
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 7:53 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Forced Affection WAS Two Questions


--- In [email protected], Tim and Maureen
<tmthomas@s...> wrote:
> We backed Waaaayyyy off on "manners" - forcing children to attend
to the emotional needs of adults is simply dangerous. Like "kiss
Uncle Normie good night!" "Get over there and hug your aunt." Kids
need to control there bodies, including their voices if they are to
grow up to control their bodies/selves.
>
> It's in the small subtle stuff too, but just the obvious big stuff.
>
> My (panicky) thots
>
> Tim T

M'kay, this isn't something I'd thought of. children, meeting the
emotional needs of adults. Hmmm.

But I also don't make my kids hug someone they don't want to hug. But
I also don't think there's anything wrong with smoothing out the
rough edges, so to speak. perhaps with modeling the Propah Procedyah.
Perhaps with practicing it in a Faux Pas Party. Probably, a little of
both. Possibly, (but maybe not) throwing in a little dialogue about
not WANTING to give Uncle Normie a kiss, and in that role playing,
showing the kids that if they balk, mom isn't going to push it, but
inquire into their reasons for balking. IOW, giving them permission
to speak their mind if the hugging and kissing (or, for that matter,
the greeting and saying thank you) is uncomfortable for them.

HeidiC


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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/16/2003 10:50:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:

> I have to say to the kids in front of her "its ok, you don't have to give a
> hug if you don't want to".

And LOUDLY.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 11:53:57 -0000 "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
writes:>
> M'kay, this isn't something I'd thought of. children, meeting the
> emotional needs of adults. Hmmm.

I've never thought actually used those words, but that's exactly what
Rain's dad does with her, or tries to do. He stills tries to guilt her
into hugging or kissing him at every visit - and this has been going on
since she was 4 (which is when he got out of prison). I asked him once
what he would think if she was 16 and her boyfriend was saying what he
says, "Come on, I'll be really sad if you do't kiss me, it means a lot to
me", etc., etc. He just didn't get it - "But I'm her dad, not her
boyfriend". Arrgghh. One of the things he did with her that pissed me off
the most was when she was 4 and didn't want to kiss him good-bye or be
kissed, and I got her all buckled into the carseat and he leaned in -
purportedly to tell her good-bye - and kissed her and and then gloated...
I was so furious.

But it is all about him. He loves her in a way, but he also tries to use
her to meet his emotional needs.

Dar

[email protected]

Ow! Gross and inappropriate behavior! Hope you guess did/will work that through.

My thots
Tim T



>>I've never thought actually used those words, but that's exactly what
Rain's dad does with her, or tries to do. He stills tries to guilt her
into hugging or kissing him at every visit - and this has been going on
since she was 4 (which is when he got out of prison). I asked him once
what he would think if she was 16 and her boyfriend was saying what he
says, "Come on, I'll be really sad if you do't kiss me, it means a lot to
me", etc., etc. He just didn't get it - "But I'm her dad, not her
boyfriend". Arrgghh. One of the things he did with her that pissed me off
the most was when she was 4 and didn't want to kiss him good-bye or be
kissed, and I got her all buckled into the carseat and he leaned in -
purportedly to tell her good-bye - and kissed her and and then gloated...
I was so furious.

But it is all about him. He loves her in a way, but he also tries to use
her to meet his emotional needs.

Dar


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

On Mon, 16 Jun 2003 13:56:27 -0700 tmthomas@... writes:
> Ow! Gross and inappropriate behavior! Hope you guess did/will work
> that through.
>
Well, she's 10 now, so she can handle it pretty well on her own, knowing
that I'll back her up. He's not a very functional guy - he's been living
in his car for over a year and last week the transmission went, so he
called to say he was going off to work with the carnival for a while...

Dar