Fausey-Khosraviani

What about tea parties and manners? I think this conversation is talking about a little boy, but for little girls who love tea parties, couldn't that be a neat way to learn manners and have a whole lot of fun doing it? Excuse me Miss Margaux, if it wouldn't be too much trouble, could you please pass the marmalade? Thank you, dear.

I could see this happening with gales of laughter in my front yard with my daughter Margaux and her unschooling friend BJ, each in dress up clothes holding umbrellas and drinking lemonade.

Opinions?

Thank you.

Nichole

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

--- In [email protected], "Fausey-Khosraviani"
<ms_fausey@y...> wrote:
> What about tea parties and manners? I think this conversation is
talking about a little boy, but for little girls who love tea
parties, couldn't that be a neat way to learn manners and have a
whole lot of fun doing it? Excuse me Miss Margaux, if it wouldn't be
too much trouble, could you please pass the marmalade? Thank you,
dear.
>
> I could see this happening with gales of laughter in my front yard
with my daughter Margaux and her unschooling friend BJ, each in dress
up clothes holding umbrellas and drinking lemonade.
>
> Opinions?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Nichole
>


I love this! I posted in reply to Sandra already, how much fun it
would be, not just the girls, but the whole family, set up a Faux Pas
Party, ...what would a polite person do, in various situations and
make some of them outrageous...I can just see us giggling over
the "up pinky!" and the "stir your tea counterclockwise ONLY, dear"
and stuff, along with "How to Introduce Someone to a Friend"
and "What to Say When Someone Says Something Nice to You." Practice
eye-contact, polite responses, and such, along with "Please don't rub
your teeth clean with the tablecloth" LOL (wasn't that a "manner" in
Geo. Washington's Rules for Young Boys or whatever the booklet was
called?) Oooh! We have a copy of that! might be a good place to
start!

And what fun we could have!

HeidiC

[email protected]

Once again, I'm going to make an anti-teaparty statement. (I am SUCH a
downer!)

Having teaparty expressly to 'practice' manners instead of to actually have a
teaparty is like having an algebra lesson for no reason than that a child
might someday need algebra.

Wait until she does.

Why pretend to introduce people? Why not actually introduce them to some
people?

One day Holly said (to me, later) that Kirby is SO polite when he introduces
people, and she doesn't know how to do it that well. I just told her you
decide which person ranks, and you talk to them. You tell them who this other
person is, and AFTER you've given them all the information they need (who and
why) then you can talk to the other person and tell them something about the
ranking person, at least what to call them, like "This is my mom, Sandra" or "This
is my mom, Mrs. Dodd" (if we did it that way).

I told her if she couldn't remember or figure out who to address the
introduction to, to think of introducing her dog to the pope in the Vatican. You
wouldn't turn to your dog and say, "Gudrun this is the Pope!" (If the Pope comes
to our house, we might want to tell the dog to stop barking at the Pope but
that's different."

With a humorous example they can remember it for life.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fausey-Khosraviani

Okay, Sandra, so if I have a tea party with Margaux and BJ, which they love doing anyway, and I just act the part of the high mannered person, then I suppose that would teach them something. Of course I'd do it with a British accent and Margaux would soon follow suit, if she wouldn't already be speaking in that manner.

I wouldn't have a tea party just to teach or anything just to teach. I've learned, even through my very limited experience, that it's the best way to get a child disinterested in something once beloved to her.

Thanks.
Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, June 15, 2003 4:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Tea Party was: Two Questions


Once again, I'm going to make an anti-teaparty statement. (I am SUCH a
downer!)

Having teaparty expressly to 'practice' manners instead of to actually have a
teaparty is like having an algebra lesson for no reason than that a child
might someday need algebra.

Wait until she does.

Why pretend to introduce people? Why not actually introduce them to some
people?

One day Holly said (to me, later) that Kirby is SO polite when he introduces
people, and she doesn't know how to do it that well. I just told her you
decide which person ranks, and you talk to them. You tell them who this other
person is, and AFTER you've given them all the information they need (who and
why) then you can talk to the other person and tell them something about the
ranking person, at least what to call them, like "This is my mom, Sandra" or "This
is my mom, Mrs. Dodd" (if we did it that way).

I told her if she couldn't remember or figure out who to address the
introduction to, to think of introducing her dog to the pope in the Vatican. You
wouldn't turn to your dog and say, "Gudrun this is the Pope!" (If the Pope comes
to our house, we might want to tell the dog to stop barking at the Pope but
that's different."

With a humorous example they can remember it for life.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Betsy

**Geo. Washington's Rules for Young Boys or whatever the booklet was
called?) Oooh! We have a copy of that! might be a good place to
start! **

There's a cute book for little kids called _What Do You Say, Dear?_

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/15/2003 4:51:02 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
ms_fausey@... writes:

> Okay, Sandra, so if I have a tea party with Margaux and BJ, which they love
> doing anyway, and I just act the part of the high mannered person, then I
> suppose that would teach them something.

If you have a teapart for the joy of the experience,and if you put on your
best teaparty personna...

I suppose they might learn a LOT!

(What was that about you "teaching"? At aTEA PARTY!?
Quite gauche. <g>)

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
>
>
> **Geo. Washington's Rules for Young Boys or whatever the booklet
was
> called?) Oooh! We have a copy of that! might be a good place to
> start! **
>
> There's a cute book for little kids called _What Do You Say, Dear?_
>
> Betsy

Maurice Sendak? With scenarios like, an airplane crashing through the
ceiling?

Our library has that one. I'll have to grab it!

HeidiC

Heidi

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
> Once again, I'm going to make an anti-teaparty statement. (I am
SUCH a
> downer!)
>
> Having teaparty expressly to 'practice' manners instead of to
actually have a
> teaparty is like having an algebra lesson for no reason than that a
child
> might someday need algebra.
>
> Wait until she does.

erm, I think the other evening, and Robby demonstrating social
cluelessness *is* his "needing algebra." Don't you? Seems to me, he's
already encountered a "problem" that he doesn't know what to do
to "solve" it. Now, maybe it didn't disturb him much. Maybe he looks
at the "problem" and shrugs "Hmm, dunno how to do that. Whatever."
But, someone, say a supervisor on the job, who knows Robby could
conquer the problem if he only knew how to balance the equation, and
thus be qualified for the next promotion (which Robby DOESN'T know
about), thinks "That guy could go somewhere with some education in
algebra"...

IOW, I think we're THERE in this case. Robby "needs algebra," i.e. he
has demonstrated a lack of knowledge in an area where an "education"
in it could make a difference in his life for the better.

>
> Why pretend to introduce people? Why not actually introduce them
to some
> people?

Because, you could have so much fun with it! Pretend to be meeting...
erm...the pope! L Pretend to introduce the dog to the pope! What
would be the Propah Procedyah? Pretend to be meeting...Mel Gibson!
Keanu Reeves! (for Abbie, my 15 yo) Elijah Wood! "Aftah you ahh
finished drooling, this is how to proceed" A person would role play
for other intimidating things, wouldn't she?

And, introduce them to some people, as well. This was a bad spot for
me as a kid. Well, even as an adult, I've had my mother say "You
didn't introduce me to so and so"(after so and so leaves) and me
going "Duh" You see, I'm not the Paragon of Social Graces, meself.
Especially the meeting and greeting. It doesn't come naturally to me,
though I do have a nagging suspicion that there *is* something proper
to do in Standing Around After A Big Life Event type social
gatherings.

> One day Holly said (to me, later) that Kirby is SO polite when he
introduces
> people, and she doesn't know how to do it that well. I just told
her you
> decide which person ranks, and you talk to them.

Rank? I never even THOUGHT of rank before this thread. So, how would
rank figure into introducing a friend to my gramma? Introduce my
friend to my gramma, or my gramma to my friend? THAT is a fascinating
facet of this, that I never EVER knew before. Propah Protocol. At
this point in his life, I have no problem "practicing" such a thing
with my boy. Even if he continues basically shy or retreating, he'd
know what to do in social situations.

HeidiC

Fausey-Khosraviani

Heidi, I really like that whole post. I wonder if maybe you could set up the whole thing without the kids knowing about it. Does your older girl ever get into the tea parties anymore? Could you make masks of Keanu Reeves, the Pope (no disrespect meant), your mayor, your mother, and others (print out their faces and glue them on paper bags)? Then, the next time a tea party arises or a dinner or your next supper, you could come out and put on a show, you know? That would be surprising and fun, I bet. Just an idea.

Nichole
----- Original Message -----
From: Heidi
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, June 16, 2003 5:36 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Tea Party was: Two Questions


Because, you could have so much fun with it! Pretend to be meeting...
erm...the pope! L Pretend to introduce the dog to the pope! What
would be the Propah Procedyah? Pretend to be meeting...Mel Gibson!
Keanu Reeves! (for Abbie, my 15 yo) Elijah Wood! "Aftah you ahh
finished drooling, this is how to proceed" A person would role play
for other intimidating things, wouldn't she?

And, introduce them to some people, as well. This was a bad spot for
me as a kid. Well, even as an adult, I've had my mother say "You
didn't introduce me to so and so"(after so and so leaves) and me
going "Duh" You see, I'm not the Paragon of Social Graces, meself.
Especially the meeting and greeting. It doesn't come naturally to me,
though I do have a nagging suspicion that there *is* something proper
to do in Standing Around After A Big Life Event type social
gatherings.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/16/03 7:20:33 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
ms_fausey@... writes:

> Heidi, I really like that whole post. I wonder if maybe you could set up
> the whole thing without the kids knowing about it. Does your older girl ever
> get into the tea parties anymore? Could you make masks of Keanu Reeves, the
> Pope (no disrespect meant), your mayor, your mother, and others (print out
> their faces and glue them on paper bags)? Then, the next time a tea party
> arises or a dinner or your next supper, you could come out and put on a show, you
> know? That would be surprising and fun, I bet. Just an idea.
>
> Nichole
>

Nichole,

Your ideas were great!!

Heidi,

Kass and Kree rarely play tea party anymore. However, Kass is a tea set
collector, so every now and then she gets the urge. Funny though, the only proper
etiquette they use is the pinky thing. They think that's funny. I watched them
play out a scene unbeknownst to them, and it played out just like our coffee
nites do. My coffee nite pals all lurk here so they know what I mean. Instead
of chatting about their children as we do, they chatting about their pets.
Instead of chatting about hubby's, they chatted about neighbors. It was quite
hysterical. I've never considered using that time for etiquette practice, but then
again, the apples don't fall far from the tree. I'm pretty sure they'd
question the rank thing too. Hmmmm. I feel a discussion coming on. DH is home from
work today, so he can chime in from the military POV. Could make for an
interesting day.

Anyway, that brings me to my next thought. Kass and Kree love when they get
down the wine glasses, pour apple juice in them and pretend to have a fancy
swaree'. So perhaps with older children, something in that realm would be
appropriate.

Just my 2 cents.

Rhonda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deborah Lewis

> Having teaparty expressly to 'practice' manners instead of to
actually have a
> teaparty is like having an algebra lesson for no reason than that a
child
> might someday need algebra.

***erm, I think the other evening, and Robby demonstrating social
cluelessness *is* his "needing algebra."***

You said "I think".
*You* think he needs the tea party to learn manners. Has he expressed
disappointment in his own social skills and asked for help from you?

Lots and lots of people "think" their kids should be potty trained at
two, reading at five, memorizing multiplication tables at seven and
passing college entrance exams at fourteen.

He's young and he needs the niceties modeled to and for him in a real
and meaningful way. If that hasn't happened yet he can hardly be blamed
for being "clueless".

Here we great each other nicely when one of us comes home, we say please
and thank you. We say hello and goodbye. That's just a reality of
our lives together and it's Dylan's reality too.

If you've always coached him he may have just relied on you and not
developed his own understanding about social niceties. If you model
instead he'll gain awareness. He's a little kid. He's not meeting the
Pope, he's not applying for jobs, he's not the host at a fine restaurant.
People skills develop at different times for different people just like
reading skills and writing skills and make your own sandwich skills.

He'll be fine if he has fine examples.

Deb L

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/16/03 5:37:43 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:

<< I think the other evening, and Robby demonstrating social

cluelessness *is* his "needing algebra." Don't you? Seems to me, he's

already encountered a "problem" that he doesn't know what to do

to "solve" it. Now, maybe it didn't disturb him much. Maybe he looks

at the "problem" and shrugs "Hmm, dunno how to do that. Whatever." >>

Right. So do it with REAL "math." Real situations. Not "worksheets" or
fake teaparties.
(Though the role-playing scenario did seem to have some merit. Having a
spectacularly fake teaparty where people played other people is a more fun
scenario than a family just being more formal because they want to practice. I don't
know why that struck my yucky.)

<<Rank? I never even THOUGHT of rank before this thread. So, how would

rank figure into introducing a friend to my gramma?>>

Grandma ranks, unless the friend is a bride at her own wedding. <g> (Or the
hostess of a party in her own home, or the governor or mayor, or the featured
artist at a gallery opening, or...) Out in the wilds, like at a mall, if
you're with your grandmother and a friend of yours arrives, you should tell your
grandmother who this friend is and how you know her, I think.

<<Introduce my

friend to my gramma, or my gramma to my friend? THAT is a fascinating

facet of this, that I never EVER knew before. Propah Protocol.>>

That's why I use the pope and a dog, or the president and your little
brother. It's harder to think about it when they're more or less same
age/gender/social status than if they're more extreme.

But it's situational, especially in the U.S. where rank is allegedly levelled
out. It's more in flux, at least.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/16/03 8:20:27 AM, ms_fausey@... writes:

<< Could you make masks of Keanu Reeves, the Pope (no disrespect meant), your
mayor, your mother, and others (print out their faces and glue them on paper
bags)? >>

Name tags. Or hats/headbands.

You can't eat and drink properly with a mask.

[email protected]

<< You said "I think".
*You* think he needs the tea party to learn manners. Has he expressed
disappointment in his own social skills and asked for help from you? >>

Good point.
It's never too late to learn those kinds of manners.
Heck, I was just lately in an exchange in which some adults said they had
never thought of the individuals' relative rank when they made introductions.

OH! That was here, this morning!
<g>

Sandra

Heidi

> Right. So do it with REAL "math." Real situations.
Not "worksheets" or
> fake teaparties.
> (Though the role-playing scenario did seem to have some merit.
Having a
> spectacularly fake teaparty where people played other people is a
more fun
> scenario

Well that's what I had in mind. Daddy being the "hostess" (my hubby
could cut this up AMAZINGLY. He can be pretty funny and silly) and
Propahly Pouring The Tea, and what WOULD the hostess DO if one of the
guests made armpit fart noises or what SHOULD a guest do when the
host enters, and which direction SHOULD one stir one's tea?


than a family just being more formal because they want to practice.
I don't
> know why that struck my yucky.)

Well, I *could* throw in a few dinner-time table rules! LOL



<snip> That's why I use the pope and a dog, or the president and your
little
> brother. It's harder to think about it when they're more or less
same
> age/gender/social status than if they're more extreme.
>
> But it's situational, especially in the U.S. where rank is
allegedly levelled
> out. It's more in flux, at least.
>
> Sandra


If we were to do something like a Faux Pas Party, we would HAVE to
have a president over, as well as The Queen. A Quaker (or, what sect
is it that won't remove their hats?) meets The Queen!

HeidiC

Tia Leschke

> One day Holly said (to me, later) that Kirby is SO polite when he
introduces
> people, and she doesn't know how to do it that well. I just told her you
> decide which person ranks, and you talk to them. You tell them who this
other
> person is, and AFTER you've given them all the information they need (who
and
> why) then you can talk to the other person and tell them something about
the
> ranking person, at least what to call them, like "This is my mom, Sandra"
or "This
> is my mom, Mrs. Dodd" (if we did it that way).
>
> I told her if she couldn't remember or figure out who to address the
> introduction to, to think of introducing her dog to the pope in the
Vatican. You
> wouldn't turn to your dog and say, "Gudrun this is the Pope!" (If the
Pope comes
> to our house, we might want to tell the dog to stop barking at the Pope
but
> that's different."

Thanks Sandra. I'm 54 and *still* didn't know who you speak to first in
that kind of situation, and I'll be sure to remember if I ever meet the
Pope! <g>
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Heidi

--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> << You said "I think".
> *You* think he needs the tea party to learn manners. Has he
expressed
> disappointment in his own social skills and asked for help from
you? >>
>
> Good point.
> It's never too late to learn those kinds of manners.
> Heck, I was just lately in an exchange in which some adults said
they had
> never thought of the individuals' relative rank when they made
introductions.
>
> OH! That was here, this morning!
> <g>
>
> Sandra


ROFL

But remember, part of my analogy was a supervisor who could see that,
with a little Algebra Education, Robby would be more qualified for
the next job promotion.

Supervisor=caring adults in his life (me)

next job promotion=ability to function socially, thus enhancing his
life a bit

Does that fly, or no?

HeidiC