Some stuff I want
Julie Bogart
The sequence about manners was really good for me. I started
thinking about shifts we've made and why we've made them. I
have a couple of points I wanted to share.
1. I want my home to be reality-based.
What I mean by this is that I want kids to respond to reality, not
an ideal. If the food isn't tasty, I don't want them pretending it is. If
they feel irritated that dinner is taking a long time, I don't want
them to pretend that they don't mind just to appease me or avoid
being in trouble. I would hope that they can express those
feelings with an increasing ability to care about the feelings of
others as they do, but even in an immature form, I'd rather they
say "Dinner is taking too long. I want to get down." than
smouldering and pretending.
2. I want the kids to feel they can tell me anything.
One problem with authoritarian parenting is that kids know who
calls the shots in their lives so they will lie or hide to protect
themselves from outcomes they don't want. Example: my
daughter went to a sleep-over with four Christian homeschooled
girls. When I picked her up, I said, "How late did you stay up?"
She said, "4:30" Her best friend said, "I'm not telling my mom
that. I'll just tell her 2:00 a.m. or she won't let me do it again." I
said, "You'd be lying to your mother." She replied, "She won't
know." Blew me away that she'd admit this to one of her mother's
best friends! (me)
My son returned from an overnight where he and his four friends
streaked at 2:30 a.m. and he shared it with me saying, "Please
don't tell the other moms. They will say no to future overnights."
If I'm seen as the threatening kill-joy in my kids lives, I'll lose
access to them and any influence I want to have will be gone.
3. I want my kids to experience reciprocity.
When we (the parents) violate a child's sense of justice, I want
the child to feel free to say so, to expect restitution in the same
ways we want it from them when they damage or violate
someone else's space. And we give it. anyone can say, "You're
out of line"--parent to kid, kid to parent. My hope is that we're
raising kids who have a strong sense of what's right and won't
be subject to bullying... or at least won't accept it.
4. I want us to have fun.
I've noticed that life is just not that fun when one person's view of
how things ought to be done controls the space. This happens
in classrooms, in homes and in offices every day of the year. I'm
happy to let go of control in order to create an environment where
everyone is able to find ways to enjoy living life together.
Any other thoughts on what you want?
Julie
thinking about shifts we've made and why we've made them. I
have a couple of points I wanted to share.
1. I want my home to be reality-based.
What I mean by this is that I want kids to respond to reality, not
an ideal. If the food isn't tasty, I don't want them pretending it is. If
they feel irritated that dinner is taking a long time, I don't want
them to pretend that they don't mind just to appease me or avoid
being in trouble. I would hope that they can express those
feelings with an increasing ability to care about the feelings of
others as they do, but even in an immature form, I'd rather they
say "Dinner is taking too long. I want to get down." than
smouldering and pretending.
2. I want the kids to feel they can tell me anything.
One problem with authoritarian parenting is that kids know who
calls the shots in their lives so they will lie or hide to protect
themselves from outcomes they don't want. Example: my
daughter went to a sleep-over with four Christian homeschooled
girls. When I picked her up, I said, "How late did you stay up?"
She said, "4:30" Her best friend said, "I'm not telling my mom
that. I'll just tell her 2:00 a.m. or she won't let me do it again." I
said, "You'd be lying to your mother." She replied, "She won't
know." Blew me away that she'd admit this to one of her mother's
best friends! (me)
My son returned from an overnight where he and his four friends
streaked at 2:30 a.m. and he shared it with me saying, "Please
don't tell the other moms. They will say no to future overnights."
If I'm seen as the threatening kill-joy in my kids lives, I'll lose
access to them and any influence I want to have will be gone.
3. I want my kids to experience reciprocity.
When we (the parents) violate a child's sense of justice, I want
the child to feel free to say so, to expect restitution in the same
ways we want it from them when they damage or violate
someone else's space. And we give it. anyone can say, "You're
out of line"--parent to kid, kid to parent. My hope is that we're
raising kids who have a strong sense of what's right and won't
be subject to bullying... or at least won't accept it.
4. I want us to have fun.
I've noticed that life is just not that fun when one person's view of
how things ought to be done controls the space. This happens
in classrooms, in homes and in offices every day of the year. I'm
happy to let go of control in order to create an environment where
everyone is able to find ways to enjoy living life together.
Any other thoughts on what you want?
Julie
Heidi
Hi Julie,
first of all, this is getting printed as I type. VERY good, Julie B!
Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate. If
there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it. But at
least taste it. I've learned what's "edible" around here, and what
isn't, but trying things is a good habit, IMO. If it's yucky, I have
no problem with them saying so.
<snip>
yes as often as possible, but both hubby and I being somewhat
pessimistic and naturally negative, "No" comes out automatically.
We've given the kids (more for my husband than myself) a process
where they can say "I'd like to appeal" and then explain why they
should get a "yes" instead of a "no." If we can't think of a good
reason why not, we must change our "no" to a "yes." This way, they
aren't just whining at us, and my hubby doesn't see it as back talk.
Which is a Good Thing, Man.
HeidiC
first of all, this is getting printed as I type. VERY good, Julie B!
> The sequence about manners was really good for me. I startedis.
> thinking about shifts we've made and why we've made them. I
> have a couple of points I wanted to share.
>
> 1. I want my home to be reality-based.
>
> What I mean by this is that I want kids to respond to reality, not
> an ideal. If the food isn't tasty, I don't want them pretending it
Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate. If
there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it. But at
least taste it. I've learned what's "edible" around here, and what
isn't, but trying things is a good habit, IMO. If it's yucky, I have
no problem with them saying so.
<snip>
> 3. I want my kids to experience reciprocity.another rule! LOL it's called Making an Appeal. We're trying to say
>
> When we (the parents) violate a child's sense of justice, I want
> the child to feel free to say so, to expect restitution in the same
> ways we want it from them when they damage or violate
> someone else's space. And we give it. anyone can say, "You're
> out of line"--parent to kid, kid to parent. My hope is that we're
> raising kids who have a strong sense of what's right and won't
> be subject to bullying... or at least won't accept it.
yes as often as possible, but both hubby and I being somewhat
pessimistic and naturally negative, "No" comes out automatically.
We've given the kids (more for my husband than myself) a process
where they can say "I'd like to appeal" and then explain why they
should get a "yes" instead of a "no." If we can't think of a good
reason why not, we must change our "no" to a "yes." This way, they
aren't just whining at us, and my hubby doesn't see it as back talk.
Which is a Good Thing, Man.
> 4. I want us to have fun.of
>
> I've noticed that life is just not that fun when one person's view
> how things ought to be done controls the space. This happensthanks, Julie!
> in classrooms, in homes and in offices every day of the year. I'm
> happy to let go of control in order to create an environment where
> everyone is able to find ways to enjoy living life together.
>
> Any other thoughts on what you want?
>
> Julie
HeidiC
Gerard Westenberg
<<4. I want us to have fun.>>>
Me, too. In fact, I would say that having fun is our family's most important "want". I notice that when we are having fun - or looking for the fun in everyday life - well, we are happier, we are nicer to others, things flow better, we talk and share more. The atmosphere of fun , of looking for joy, affects all that we do...Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Me, too. In fact, I would say that having fun is our family's most important "want". I notice that when we are having fun - or looking for the fun in everyday life - well, we are happier, we are nicer to others, things flow better, we talk and share more. The atmosphere of fun , of looking for joy, affects all that we do...Leonie
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/8/2003 7:18:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
care for their cooking.
My dh and kids are very honest, and I'm glad because it helps me cook what
everyone likes most of the time. They're very sweet when they don't like
something too...."I'm really glad you cooked this Mom, but I really don't care for
this recipe"
They aren't made to eat things they don't like either...so there is a good
open communication and trust on both sides. And a huge willingness to try new
things.
I had all of them asking for squash the other day just because I cooked some
for myself. A child forced to eat things would never have asked.
Jared found out he still doesn't like it, Jalen finished the rest of the
bowl!!
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
>I like this. It's silly when someone gets offended because everyone doesn't
> What I mean by this is that I want kids to respond to reality, not
> an ideal. If the food isn't tasty, I don't want them pretending it is.
care for their cooking.
My dh and kids are very honest, and I'm glad because it helps me cook what
everyone likes most of the time. They're very sweet when they don't like
something too...."I'm really glad you cooked this Mom, but I really don't care for
this recipe"
They aren't made to eat things they don't like either...so there is a good
open communication and trust on both sides. And a huge willingness to try new
things.
I had all of them asking for squash the other day just because I cooked some
for myself. A child forced to eat things would never have asked.
Jared found out he still doesn't like it, Jalen finished the rest of the
bowl!!
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/8/2003 7:18:06 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
No one makes me try things I don't feel like trying. I suggest losing that
one.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate. IfLame rule.
> there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it.
No one makes me try things I don't feel like trying. I suggest losing that
one.
Ren
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
<<Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate. If
there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it. But at
least taste it. I've learned what's "edible" around here, and what
isn't, but trying things is a good habit, IMO. If it's yucky, I have
no problem with them saying so.>>
Ewwww. I don't like this rule at all. I eat pretty much everything. But
there are a few things I can think of that I just wouldn't want to try. Lets
say oysters. I don't want to try them at all. I don't even want to look at
them. I can't imagine how I would feel going to someone's house and have
them tell I had to at least take a taste. Screw you!!!
Now maybe the food you have isn't near like an oyster if you don't like the
looks of it. But to a kid, some food can look so much worse. I don't think
it's fair to make them try it. Just being made to do it can make it so that
if they would like it, the won't. Kids tastes change a lot but given their
own time and inclination to do so. Joseph and Tara are what some would call
picky eaters. They don't eat things now they use to but they eat a lot more
now than they ever did. Not because I made them taste anything. They did
what felt right to them.
I have a friend who has a very controlling rigid husband. I've seen him go
off on their son and he scares me. She was telling me how when they went to
Universal, they made him go on rides he was afraid of. That they didn't
travel all that way and spend that much money ot have him be afraid. I let
her know that I thought that was awful. She said he enjoyed the rides after
though. So I said, "And wonder if it he didn't like it and was traumatized
by something you made him do?" Her response was that he would get over it
and it didn't kill him.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Mary B
<<Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate. If
there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it. But at
least taste it. I've learned what's "edible" around here, and what
isn't, but trying things is a good habit, IMO. If it's yucky, I have
no problem with them saying so.>>
Ewwww. I don't like this rule at all. I eat pretty much everything. But
there are a few things I can think of that I just wouldn't want to try. Lets
say oysters. I don't want to try them at all. I don't even want to look at
them. I can't imagine how I would feel going to someone's house and have
them tell I had to at least take a taste. Screw you!!!
Now maybe the food you have isn't near like an oyster if you don't like the
looks of it. But to a kid, some food can look so much worse. I don't think
it's fair to make them try it. Just being made to do it can make it so that
if they would like it, the won't. Kids tastes change a lot but given their
own time and inclination to do so. Joseph and Tara are what some would call
picky eaters. They don't eat things now they use to but they eat a lot more
now than they ever did. Not because I made them taste anything. They did
what felt right to them.
I have a friend who has a very controlling rigid husband. I've seen him go
off on their son and he scares me. She was telling me how when they went to
Universal, they made him go on rides he was afraid of. That they didn't
travel all that way and spend that much money ot have him be afraid. I let
her know that I thought that was awful. She said he enjoyed the rides after
though. So I said, "And wonder if it he didn't like it and was traumatized
by something you made him do?" Her response was that he would get over it
and it didn't kill him.
Doesn't make sense to me.
Mary B
Heidi
--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
if I was at a friend's house, or my mom's, and oyster stew were
offered, I'd try it. I'd take one small spoonful, and I'd take one
bite, to see if oysters make oyster stew taste icky.
Dunno if I'd make the kids taste it, either. Maybe, let them have a
little taste from my small spoonful. What if they like it?
the main thing is, helping them develop a palate that is capable of
taking in new things. Not forcing them to eat stuff they hate, just
not letting them always refuse things just because the food looks
different than what they are used to.
HeidiC
wrote:
> From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@h...>But
>
> <<Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate. If
> there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it. But at
> least taste it. I've learned what's "edible" around here, and what
> isn't, but trying things is a good habit, IMO. If it's yucky, I have
> no problem with them saying so.>>
>
>
>
> Ewwww. I don't like this rule at all. I eat pretty much everything.
> there are a few things I can think of that I just wouldn't want totry. Lets
> say oysters. I don't want to try them at all. I don't even want tolook at
> them. I can't imagine how I would feel going to someone's house andhave
> them tell I had to at least take a taste. Screw you!!!Oysters are yucky, to be sure. I know, because I've tried them. Now,
if I was at a friend's house, or my mom's, and oyster stew were
offered, I'd try it. I'd take one small spoonful, and I'd take one
bite, to see if oysters make oyster stew taste icky.
Dunno if I'd make the kids taste it, either. Maybe, let them have a
little taste from my small spoonful. What if they like it?
the main thing is, helping them develop a palate that is capable of
taking in new things. Not forcing them to eat stuff they hate, just
not letting them always refuse things just because the food looks
different than what they are used to.
HeidiC
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/8/2003 9:37:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> >>>>>>In a message dated 6/8/2003 7:18:06 PM Central Daylight Time,Another table rule of ours: taste
> [email protected] writes:
> everything on your plate. Ifthere's something you don't like, you don't have to eat
> it. >>>Lots of table rules...... Dinner sounds like a punishment!
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate.***
What is your goal here? Do you think if you don't make them taste
certain foods they will never, ever try them? Do you think that their
time with you is the only opportunity they will ever have to try a
certain food?
And what if they never eat haggis? How will that ruin their lives?
Do you make them try on shoes they don't like? Do you make them read
books they don't want to or hug people they don't want to?
I don't understand.
Why is your decision to require them to taste, more valid than their
decision not to try something?
Will knowing what lima beans taste like serve them better in the future
than having confidence in their own decision making abilities?
Deb L
What is your goal here? Do you think if you don't make them taste
certain foods they will never, ever try them? Do you think that their
time with you is the only opportunity they will ever have to try a
certain food?
And what if they never eat haggis? How will that ruin their lives?
Do you make them try on shoes they don't like? Do you make them read
books they don't want to or hug people they don't want to?
I don't understand.
Why is your decision to require them to taste, more valid than their
decision not to try something?
Will knowing what lima beans taste like serve them better in the future
than having confidence in their own decision making abilities?
Deb L
Heidi
--- In [email protected], Deborah Lewis
<ddzimlew@j...> wrote:
You make some good points. My main goal in having the kids taste
foods, is so that they don't turn something away just because it's
new. Trying new things. Educating their palates.
But also know, I don't force this. We've just never had a power
struggle over it. First of all, we don't eat every meal together, nor
even every dinner. At a buffet, they choose what they want. I don't
hover over them making them take a little of everything.
At Gramma's, or as guests at someone else's house, or sometimes when
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.
HeidiC
<ddzimlew@j...> wrote:
> ***Another table rule of ours: taste everything on your plate.***their
>
> What is your goal here? Do you think if you don't make them taste
> certain foods they will never, ever try them? Do you think that
> time with you is the only opportunity they will ever have to try aread
> certain food?
> And what if they never eat haggis? How will that ruin their lives?
>
> Do you make them try on shoes they don't like? Do you make them
> books they don't want to or hug people they don't want to?future
>
> I don't understand.
>
> Why is your decision to require them to taste, more valid than their
> decision not to try something?
> Will knowing what lima beans taste like serve them better in the
> than having confidence in their own decision making abilities?Hi Deb
>
> Deb L
You make some good points. My main goal in having the kids taste
foods, is so that they don't turn something away just because it's
new. Trying new things. Educating their palates.
But also know, I don't force this. We've just never had a power
struggle over it. First of all, we don't eat every meal together, nor
even every dinner. At a buffet, they choose what they want. I don't
hover over them making them take a little of everything.
At Gramma's, or as guests at someone else's house, or sometimes when
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.
HeidiC
Mary
From: "Heidi" <bunsofaluminum60@...>
<<At Gramma's, or as guests at someone else's house, or sometimes when
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.>>
So do I understand you that you never ever say to the kids now, "just take
one taste to see if you like it." You mentioned it one time when they were
little and they taste everything new all on their own?
If that's how it goes, then fine. If you mention it every time or even every
now and then, it's not doen on their own. It's something they do because
they know you want them to do it. I think Deb was mentioning about having
the faith that kids will try all sorts of things and make great choices if
you allow them to. Not just because you want them to.
Mary B
<<At Gramma's, or as guests at someone else's house, or sometimes when
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.>>
So do I understand you that you never ever say to the kids now, "just take
one taste to see if you like it." You mentioned it one time when they were
little and they taste everything new all on their own?
If that's how it goes, then fine. If you mention it every time or even every
now and then, it's not doen on their own. It's something they do because
they know you want them to do it. I think Deb was mentioning about having
the faith that kids will try all sorts of things and make great choices if
you allow them to. Not just because you want them to.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/9/2003 11:21:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:
if there were something new or different offered and he/they had gotten any,
they might have just over looked it.
Isn't that they way it is with LOTS of new things? We see/hear/taste
something that we think our children MIGHT enjoy so we tell them about it and let
them make their own decision?
I understand the uproar if one is FORCED to try/do/eat something they don't
want. Merely suggestions that one might enjoy it is also not a good thing?
If someone had not suggested to me that unschooling seemed a lot like what I
did already I would never have even known to check it out.
A rule about trying every single thing is probably too much because it's a
rule of course. But in general I think it's good for mothers to expose their
children to many different things, food included.
If the child is opposed and doesn't want it I can see the point. I can also
see that one might offer and suggest and even slightly cajole another person,
child or friend or spouse into trying something new that they feel might be
enjoyable. If said person doesn't like it, they don't like it period but if you
haven't tried it you really don't know.
Of course there are always exceptions to everything and one would know best
about handling one's own children and their responses to being
offered/suggested something, mostly anyway the mothers here.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> So do I understand you that you never ever say to the kids now, "just takeBut I would also say to my husband or friend, "try this, you might like it"
> one taste to see if you like it." You mentioned it one time when they were
> little and they taste everything new all on their own?
>
> If that's how it goes, then fine. If you mention it every time or even every
> now and then, it's not done on their own. It's something they do because
> they know you want them to do it. I think Deb was mentioning about having
> the faith that kids will try all sorts of things and make great choices if
> you allow them to. Not just because you want them to.
>
if there were something new or different offered and he/they had gotten any,
they might have just over looked it.
Isn't that they way it is with LOTS of new things? We see/hear/taste
something that we think our children MIGHT enjoy so we tell them about it and let
them make their own decision?
I understand the uproar if one is FORCED to try/do/eat something they don't
want. Merely suggestions that one might enjoy it is also not a good thing?
If someone had not suggested to me that unschooling seemed a lot like what I
did already I would never have even known to check it out.
A rule about trying every single thing is probably too much because it's a
rule of course. But in general I think it's good for mothers to expose their
children to many different things, food included.
If the child is opposed and doesn't want it I can see the point. I can also
see that one might offer and suggest and even slightly cajole another person,
child or friend or spouse into trying something new that they feel might be
enjoyable. If said person doesn't like it, they don't like it period but if you
haven't tried it you really don't know.
Of course there are always exceptions to everything and one would know best
about handling one's own children and their responses to being
offered/suggested something, mostly anyway the mothers here.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***My main goal in having the kids taste
foods, is so that they don't turn something away just because it's
new.***
Would they really go their whole lives never trying new things if you
didn't require it in their child hood?
But really Heidi, what if they never eat a turnip? The world will keep
on turning, the sun will still shine. Are you insisting they try bugs
because some cultures eat those? Are you asking them to try dog because
they might end up in the Philippines someday? (please say no!) <g>
***Educating their palates.***
You don't need to educate their palates. They have palates, they will
eat. Having things available because you or another family member
enjoys them will give your kids ample opportunity to try new things when
they want, without the rule.
Deb L
foods, is so that they don't turn something away just because it's
new.***
Would they really go their whole lives never trying new things if you
didn't require it in their child hood?
But really Heidi, what if they never eat a turnip? The world will keep
on turning, the sun will still shine. Are you insisting they try bugs
because some cultures eat those? Are you asking them to try dog because
they might end up in the Philippines someday? (please say no!) <g>
***Educating their palates.***
You don't need to educate their palates. They have palates, they will
eat. Having things available because you or another family member
enjoys them will give your kids ample opportunity to try new things when
they want, without the rule.
Deb L
jmcseals SEALS
<<At Gramma's, or as guests at someone else's house, or sometimes when
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.>>
I've read this several times and something about it was eating at me, but I
couldn't put my finger on it. I finally got it. It seems like the
underlying goal is to push the kids into little praise giving robots. Thank
the hostess, praise the food, respect so-and-so. Rather than being truly
thankful, truly enjoying the food, they are made to. I'd rather watch a kid
leave something gross looking off his plate, rather than force a tiny bit
down and lie to the hostess by thanking her for food he thinks is repulsive.
LOL I've been there...as an adult even! I'm very picky about textures in
particular. I've never been in a situation where there wasn't anything I
would eat, so I load up on the good stuff and offer my heartfelt thanks for
the things I truly enjoyed. I've never encountered anyone who was offended
that I didn't try everything. And I've been to a LOT of meals provided by
other people. I can't stand most chinese food, so I load up on rice and a
few (very few) other choice items. I have had another adult suggest I try
such-and-such but I reply, OH, this rice and whatnot is SO good I don't have
room for anything else! This is so wonderful! I mean it, too, and I
haven't offended anyone yet! <g>
It seems like you want your children to be respectful, thankful beings, but
what's missing is genuine sincerity. You can't insist that they be
respectful of others or thankful for their offerings. That is something
earned and your children will give their thanks and respect freely to those
who deserve it. I mean, if the food and service is horrible but the hostess
worked for hours to prepare the meal, I wouldn't thank her! I wouldn't
expect my kids to either. That's kind of extreme but it happens!
I think it's amazing how huge the shift has been for you in the past few
days. I feel confident that if you ease up and begin to enjoy meals without
worrying how much *work* they are for you or what the kids will or won't
like, or how thankful and proper they are, you will be amazed at what a joy
mealtimes can be! (Yes, even if you thought they *were* joyful to begin
with!)
Jennifer
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I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.>>
I've read this several times and something about it was eating at me, but I
couldn't put my finger on it. I finally got it. It seems like the
underlying goal is to push the kids into little praise giving robots. Thank
the hostess, praise the food, respect so-and-so. Rather than being truly
thankful, truly enjoying the food, they are made to. I'd rather watch a kid
leave something gross looking off his plate, rather than force a tiny bit
down and lie to the hostess by thanking her for food he thinks is repulsive.
LOL I've been there...as an adult even! I'm very picky about textures in
particular. I've never been in a situation where there wasn't anything I
would eat, so I load up on the good stuff and offer my heartfelt thanks for
the things I truly enjoyed. I've never encountered anyone who was offended
that I didn't try everything. And I've been to a LOT of meals provided by
other people. I can't stand most chinese food, so I load up on rice and a
few (very few) other choice items. I have had another adult suggest I try
such-and-such but I reply, OH, this rice and whatnot is SO good I don't have
room for anything else! This is so wonderful! I mean it, too, and I
haven't offended anyone yet! <g>
It seems like you want your children to be respectful, thankful beings, but
what's missing is genuine sincerity. You can't insist that they be
respectful of others or thankful for their offerings. That is something
earned and your children will give their thanks and respect freely to those
who deserve it. I mean, if the food and service is horrible but the hostess
worked for hours to prepare the meal, I wouldn't thank her! I wouldn't
expect my kids to either. That's kind of extreme but it happens!
I think it's amazing how huge the shift has been for you in the past few
days. I feel confident that if you ease up and begin to enjoy meals without
worrying how much *work* they are for you or what the kids will or won't
like, or how thankful and proper they are, you will be amazed at what a joy
mealtimes can be! (Yes, even if you thought they *were* joyful to begin
with!)
Jennifer
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Deborah Lewis
>>if the cook has spent time making something that***I've read this several times and something about it was eating at me,
>>they don't think looks good...
but I
couldn't put my finger on it.***
Right.
I get the sense that it's important for the poster to feel appreciated.
That's a whole 'nother issue than living respectfully and happily with
kids.
There was a post, which I can't find now, about being excused from the
table and expressing appreciation to the cook for the meal.
When I cook for my family I don't do it to get praise or acknowledgement.
I do it because I'm the one can throw something good together pretty
quickly and easily and because we all need to eat.
I *do* like doing nice things for my family. I love them and want them
to be happy. I do it because I want them to feel good. I don't do it
because I want them to feel good about ME.
When you give someone a gift is it because you hope to impress them, or
because you knew they'd love it?
It's different, the motivation is different and one seems less healthy to
me than the other.
If we tie our emotional needs to the gifts we give our family and they
become aware of that tie, what will our kids believe when we don't feel
like cooking? Will they think it's because we've stopped loving them?
Will they consider it a punishment? It seems manipulative to me.
Deb L
jmcseals SEALS
<<I get the sense that it's important for the poster to feel
appreciated.*snip*
I don't do it [cook] because I want them to feel good about ME. *snip*
When you give someone a gift is it because you hope to impress them, or
because you knew they'd love it?
It's different, the motivation is different and one seems less healthy to
me than the other. *snip* It seems manipulative to me.>>
Bingo! You hit the jackpot on this one for me. I wish I had a million
bucks to offer ya! <g>
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
appreciated.*snip*
I don't do it [cook] because I want them to feel good about ME. *snip*
When you give someone a gift is it because you hope to impress them, or
because you knew they'd love it?
It's different, the motivation is different and one seems less healthy to
me than the other. *snip* It seems manipulative to me.>>
Bingo! You hit the jackpot on this one for me. I wish I had a million
bucks to offer ya! <g>
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
<<At Gramma's, or as guests at someone else's house, or sometimes when
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.>>
I don't see it as respect to taste something I might not like, don't like
the looks/smell of. Just seems weird to me to do something I don't want to
do to show respect to someone else. If I were eating at someone's house I
would just not take what didn't appeal to me. If asked if I wanted some I
would say no thank you. If asked again why I would stated that I really
don't care for it. I have never had someone say oh just try it anyway. I
would balk at that bit time anyway. If it's something I see and don't know
what it is, I'll ask and then try it if I want to. I have made food at my
house that some won't eat and don't feel offended at all. I feel bad if
someone comes to my house and catches a cold from us let alone eat something
they didn't really like or that made them sick. I just don't see doing so as
a sign of respect. I would respect more their honesty.
Mary B
I try a new recipe, if the cook has spent time making something that
they don't think looks good...if they take a bite, they will have
tested it out, and then they'll know whether it is tasty or not. At
the very least, tasting it shows respect for the person who worked to
prepare it. And...they might find it delicious.>>
I don't see it as respect to taste something I might not like, don't like
the looks/smell of. Just seems weird to me to do something I don't want to
do to show respect to someone else. If I were eating at someone's house I
would just not take what didn't appeal to me. If asked if I wanted some I
would say no thank you. If asked again why I would stated that I really
don't care for it. I have never had someone say oh just try it anyway. I
would balk at that bit time anyway. If it's something I see and don't know
what it is, I'll ask and then try it if I want to. I have made food at my
house that some won't eat and don't feel offended at all. I feel bad if
someone comes to my house and catches a cold from us let alone eat something
they didn't really like or that made them sick. I just don't see doing so as
a sign of respect. I would respect more their honesty.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/9/03 10:34:20 AM, jmcseals@... writes:
<< your children will give their thanks and respect freely to those
who deserve it. I mean, if the food and service is horrible but the hostess
worked for hours to prepare the meal, I wouldn't thank her! I wouldn't
expect my kids to either. >>
What I've told my kids since they were little was "Say something nice." I
didn't specify what, but they overheard enough of me and Keith saying something
nice to figure it out, and sometimes they asked specifically things like "Mom,
I didn't really have very much fun, what can I say?" And I'll ask what they
liked best, and we work from that.
Some examples of "something nice" when maybe the food wasn't good or things
didn't go well:
"Thanks for inviting me!"
"Thanks for having us over."
"Happy birthday!" (again)
"I really enjoyed playing with your dog."
"That new game you got was really fun. Maybe you could bring it over to my
house sometime next week."
"Glad we got to spend some time together!"
SOMEthing nice. Not "thank your hostess for the dinner."
Sandra
<< your children will give their thanks and respect freely to those
who deserve it. I mean, if the food and service is horrible but the hostess
worked for hours to prepare the meal, I wouldn't thank her! I wouldn't
expect my kids to either. >>
What I've told my kids since they were little was "Say something nice." I
didn't specify what, but they overheard enough of me and Keith saying something
nice to figure it out, and sometimes they asked specifically things like "Mom,
I didn't really have very much fun, what can I say?" And I'll ask what they
liked best, and we work from that.
Some examples of "something nice" when maybe the food wasn't good or things
didn't go well:
"Thanks for inviting me!"
"Thanks for having us over."
"Happy birthday!" (again)
"I really enjoyed playing with your dog."
"That new game you got was really fun. Maybe you could bring it over to my
house sometime next week."
"Glad we got to spend some time together!"
SOMEthing nice. Not "thank your hostess for the dinner."
Sandra
jmcseals SEALS
<<SOMEthing nice. Not "thank your hostess for the dinner.>>
LOL Has me thinking of the last time we went out to eat. The service was
horrible. The food...even worse. I thanked the waiter for giving me the
check!
Gotta find something to work with. I agree. :0)
Jennifer
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LOL Has me thinking of the last time we went out to eat. The service was
horrible. The food...even worse. I thanked the waiter for giving me the
check!
Gotta find something to work with. I agree. :0)
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
If I don't like something I send it back. We eat a Bugaboo's often and if the
onion blossom comes out dried up it goes back. It is my favorite! Last time
we went I sent back my Prime Rib. It was mothers day, my husband had also
gotten one and his was cooked as asked, mine came out well done. The waitress knew
it was over done as soon as I called her over she asked if I wanted a
different one. I don't send back all the time but when we are spending 80-100 dollars
on a meal it better be right. I have prob. sent back food 5 times in my 32
years.
Laura D
In a message dated 6/9/2003 2:18:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
Gotta find
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
onion blossom comes out dried up it goes back. It is my favorite! Last time
we went I sent back my Prime Rib. It was mothers day, my husband had also
gotten one and his was cooked as asked, mine came out well done. The waitress knew
it was over done as soon as I called her over she asked if I wanted a
different one. I don't send back all the time but when we are spending 80-100 dollars
on a meal it better be right. I have prob. sent back food 5 times in my 32
years.
Laura D
In a message dated 6/9/2003 2:18:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jmcseals@... writes:
> <<SOMEthing nice. Not "thank your hostess for the dinner.>>LOL Has me
> thinking of the last time we went out to eat. The service washorrible. The
> food...even worse. I thanked the waiter for giving me thecheck!
Gotta find
> something to work with. I agree. :0)Jennifer
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/9/2003 4:09:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
etc.)---it's not worth complaining or sending it back.
If the meal costs more than it does to get there and we're not happy, it goes
back.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> If I don't like something I send it back. We eat a Bugaboo's often and ifWe say that if it costs more to GET there than to eat (fast food,
> the
> onion blossom comes out dried up it goes back. It is my favorite! Last time
> we went I sent back my Prime Rib. It was mothers day, my husband had also
> gotten one and his was cooked as asked, mine came out well done. The
> waitress knew
> it was over done as soon as I called her over she asked if I wanted a
> different one. I don't send back all the time but when we are spending
> 80-100 dollars
> on a meal it better be right. I have prob. sent back food 5 times in my 32
> years.
etc.)---it's not worth complaining or sending it back.
If the meal costs more than it does to get there and we're not happy, it goes
back.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
*** I wish I had a million
bucks to offer ya! <g>***
I don't need a million dollars, but I looked for half an hour for enough
quarters to vacuum out the car. If I could win a roll of quarters,
that'd be great! Ah, but I'd spend it all in one place...that sucks.
<snort>
Deb L
"What we call education and culture is for the most part nothing but the
substitution
of reading for experience, of literature for life, of the obsolete
fictitious for the contemporary real"
~George Bernard Shaw~
bucks to offer ya! <g>***
I don't need a million dollars, but I looked for half an hour for enough
quarters to vacuum out the car. If I could win a roll of quarters,
that'd be great! Ah, but I'd spend it all in one place...that sucks.
<snort>
Deb L
"What we call education and culture is for the most part nothing but the
substitution
of reading for experience, of literature for life, of the obsolete
fictitious for the contemporary real"
~George Bernard Shaw~
nellebelle
----- Original Message ----- > > Another table rule of ours: taste
everything on your plate. If
> > there's something you don't like, you don't have to eat it. >>>>>>
At our house, you don't even have to put it on your plate in the first
place.
We put the food on the table and people take, or don't take, as they please.
Sometimes someone gets up and gets something else, if they don't want
anything that is on the table.
Mary Ellen
Have A Nice Day!
----- We put the food on the table and people take, or don't take, as they please.
Sometimes someone gets up and gets something else, if they don't want
anything that is on the table.<<<<<
I had some problems with email bouncing so I may have missed some of this thread (in fact, I know I have) so sorry if anything I say is a repeat.
Thats what we do too. I make a meal, and if they don't want it, they dont have to eat it. They can make something else if they want to. My only request is that *they* be the ones to make whatever it is, since I've already cooked a meal.
It took until I was in my 30's before I even *tried* broccoli. And I love broccoli. I haven't tried cauliflower yet, not sure if I ever will.
With the abundance of choices we have in our country, WHO CARES! Its not like I"m going to be malnourished if I skip the cauliflower.
Kristen
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Sometimes someone gets up and gets something else, if they don't want
anything that is on the table.<<<<<
I had some problems with email bouncing so I may have missed some of this thread (in fact, I know I have) so sorry if anything I say is a repeat.
Thats what we do too. I make a meal, and if they don't want it, they dont have to eat it. They can make something else if they want to. My only request is that *they* be the ones to make whatever it is, since I've already cooked a meal.
It took until I was in my 30's before I even *tried* broccoli. And I love broccoli. I haven't tried cauliflower yet, not sure if I ever will.
With the abundance of choices we have in our country, WHO CARES! Its not like I"m going to be malnourished if I skip the cauliflower.
Kristen
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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