[email protected]

We have 6 children still living at home, and last year I only "homeschooled"
my 15 yo son. We plan to school our two foster sons and our other boy (12,
11, 10) next year, if all the court stuff goes well.

The two girls, 12 and 17 went to school for the first time about 2 years ago.
They love public school and do well there, but my husband and I have noticed
so many negative changes in them since they began going...sick a lot,
grouchy, impatient with siblings (much more than they used to be), a lot of ugly,
mean backtalk. It's like we're on the outside looking in at them, and they don't
see the differences in their lives now...the stress, being tired all the
time, no time for life!! And to top it all off, they ride the bus almost an hour
each way everyday.

My question is this: If we are making changes in our parenting techniques,
moving towards much more freedom for them, letting them make most decisions in
their own lives, would it be wrong to take them back out of school if they
don't want to homeschool/unschool? We have been talking about it with them a LOT
lately. Husband hates the school system, is so excited about taking the
other boys out this next year. He is a hair from putting his foot down and
forbidding them to go back.

Ugh!!!! This is sooooo hard for us right now. I don't want to alienate the
girls, make them feel we've ruined their lives by pulling them out. 12 yo
plays cello and is in the orchestra. We live in a very rural town in WV, our
homeschool group is very minimal (a core of about 6 families that go to
everything, and 4 of them are fundamentalist/republican/HSLDA/curriculum homeschoolers.
LOL!) We have no neighbors with kids their age.

Have any of you been in this situation? What did you do?

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I think I sent this wrong, sorry, so I'm gonna send it again...forgive me if
it's a double:

We have 6 children still living at home, and last year I only "homeschooled"
my 15 yo son.  We plan to school our two foster sons and our other boy (12,
11, 10) next year, if all the court stuff goes well.

The two girls, 12 and 17 went to school for the first time about 2 years
ago.  They love public school and do well there, but my husband and I have noticed
so many negative changes in them since they began going...sick a lot,
grouchy, impatient with siblings (much more than they used to be), a lot of ugly,
mean backtalk.  It's like we're on the outside looking in at them, and they don't
see the differences in their lives now...the stress, being tired all the
time, no time for life!!  And to top it all off, they ride the bus almost an hour
each way everyday.

My question is this:  If we are making changes in our parenting techniques,
moving towards much more freedom for them, letting them make most decisions in
their own lives, would it be wrong to take them back out of school if they
don't want to homeschool/unschool?  We have been talking about it with them a LOT
lately.  Husband hates the school system, is so excited about taking the
other boys out this next year.  He is a hair from putting his foot down and
forbidding them to go back. 

Ugh!!!!  This is sooooo hard for us right now.  I don't want to alienate the
girls, make them feel we've ruined their lives by pulling them out.  12 yo
plays cello and is in the orchestra.  We live in a very rural town in WV, our
homeschool group is very minimal (a core of about 6 families that go to
everything, and 4 of them are fundamentalist/republican/HSLDA/curriculum
homeschoolers.  LOL!)  We have no neighbors with kids their age. 

Have any of you been in this situation?  What did you do? 

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/8/03 11:28:13 AM, CelticFrau@... writes:

<< Have any of you been in this situation?  What did you do?  >>

I think you cut off a lot of response you might have gotten by asking the
question that way.
People who hadn't been in that situation didn't respond!

Having not been in that situation, I know for sure what I WOULD do, because
it has come up in other lesser situations.

IF an outside activity or relationship is making a kid cranky and mean at
home, I say "You can't be cranky and mean here, it's not okay. If it's the fault
of this friend/thing/hobby that you're being this way, then I'm no longer as
happy with your choice to do that. I don't mind you going/being, as long as
you can still be helpful/kind/compassionate here."

I would tell a kid that MY choice was that they not go to school, for lots of
reasons.
If that kid was bringing emotional and attitudinal school detritus home I
would say "That is one of the reasons. Bad enough school seems to be doing you
some of the damage I feared, but if you're bringing the damaging parts home,
that's no good. Leave it there or don't go anymore."

Sandra

Robyn Coburn

<<IF an outside activity or relationship is making a kid cranky and mean
at
home, I say "You can't be cranky and mean here, it's not okay. If it's
the fault of this friend/thing/hobby that you're being this way, then
I'm no longer as happy with your choice to do that. I don't mind you
going/being, as long as you can still be helpful/kind/compassionate
here."

I would tell a kid that MY choice was that they not go to school, for
lots of reasons. If that kid was bringing emotional and attitudinal
school detritus home I would say "That is one of the reasons. Bad
enough school seems to be doing you some of the damage I feared, but if
you're bringing the damaging parts home, that's no good. Leave it there
or don't go anymore."

Sandra>>



I'm confused about this reply. It sounds like you are saying that your
family can't bring their negative feelings home, that you won't welcome
them in a bad mood or unhappy. It reads like you are saying "I told you
so" instead of allowing the kids to process negative/uncomfortable
feelings in the safety of their home.

I think there is a difference between feeling "cranky" and then acting
out by being "mean" also.

Please clarify for me. This doesn't seem to jive with the attitudes
expressed in the article about your sister and her detached from school
experience, but I hope it is just that I'm not understanding you.

Robyn Coburn








Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



ADVERTISEMENT

<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=245454.3115308.4434529.1261774/D=egroupweb/S=1705
081972:HM/A=1457554/R=0/SIG=11c6fnta2/*http:/ipunda.com/clk/beibunmaisui
yuiwabei>



<http://us.adserver.yahoo.com/l?M=245454.3115308.4434529.1261774/D=egrou
pmail/S=:HM/A=1457554/rand=882994217>


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address
an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/9/03 4:26:23 AM, dezigna@... writes:

<< I'm confused about this reply. It sounds like you are saying that your
family can't bring their negative feelings home, that you won't welcome
them in a bad mood or unhappy. >>

I was going to answer this after I finished e-mail yesterday, but e-mail
never ended, Marty wanted the computer, I had unexpected company, and suddenly
it's TODAY!
Sorry. I wasn't ignoring it, I was saving it for a calm space.

A bad mood that's contained within the person is one thing. A new attitude
with which they torment siblings school-style is another thing altogether.

School creates situations in which kids create their own hierarchies and
social ranks, because humans need those things to know how to act, and if you put
kids in same-age lock-up groups, they take on unnatural social roles.

If a child can go and live there and then shake it off at the door so that
they don't inflict it on their otherwise homeschooled family, that's using
school for their personal reasons AT SCHOOL.

<<It reads like you are saying "I told you
so" instead of allowing the kids to process negative/uncomfortable
feelings in the safety of their home. >>

It would be a gigantic "I told you so," whether the mom said anything or not.

But if the mom says "You can go to school but I myself am not going to become
the fullblown school-mom. Your homework is your own business, and I'm not
going to invest myself emotionally in your grades because I don't believe grades
are good for you," it's setting a boundary. The mom is going to defend the
peace of school-free home, and the school-attending kid needs to try to assist
in that.

<<I think there is a difference between feeling "cranky" and then acting
out by being "mean" also. >>

I'm not even thinking of just being mean. I'm thinking worst-case scenario
that the kid could come home and belittle the non-attending kids, or insult
them, or posture in such ways that schooling itself becomes a big factor in
interpersonal relations. I wouldn't look the other way and let that happen for a
minute.

If one of mine goes to school, I will say strongly that school is a place for
them to visit, not a thing to drag home.

Sandra

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:

> A bad mood that's contained within the person is one thing. A
new attitude
> with which they torment siblings school-style is another thing
altogether.

Thanks for this distinction.
>
> School creates situations in which kids create their own
hierarchies and
> social ranks, because humans need those things to know how
to act, and if you put
> kids in same-age lock-up groups, they take on unnatural social
roles.

This is really true. I think I hear you saying that you have come to
a conclusion through your own research, experience and
thinking that shows you that school is not a healthy place to be
for most people. You now are saying that if your child chooses to
go to school, it's with the awareness that school isn't the
preferred lifestyle choice in your eyes because of the things you
see as deterimental. Is this close?

>
> If a child can go and live there and then shake it off at the door
so that
> they don't inflict it on their otherwise homeschooled family,
that's using
> school for their personal reasons AT SCHOOL.

I like that.

>
> But if the mom says "You can go to school but I myself am not
going to become
> the fullblown school-mom. Your homework is your own
business, and I'm not
> going to invest myself emotionally in your grades because I
don't believe grades
> are good for you," it's setting a boundary. The mom is going to
defend the
> peace of school-free home, and the school-attending kid
needs to try to assist
> in that.

So the priority is on school-free home.

What if the child really does want a mom who is involved
(after-prom committee, or helping with homework,
parent-teacher conferences etc...)?

I'm thinking worst-case scenario
> that the kid could come home and belittle the non-attending
kids, or insult
> them, or posture in such ways that schooling itself becomes a
big factor in
> interpersonal relations. I wouldn't look the other way and let
that happen for a
> minute.

I like this.
>
> If one of mine goes to school, I will say strongly that school is a
place for
> them to visit, not a thing to drag home.

Do you think that your posture toward school could be taken
antagonistically by the child? I find that my son, who only
attended one class per day this year, is quick to defend kids in
school and whether or not they are learning. he doesn't wnat me
to attack school, though he is more than willing to cite the
weaknesses of the system himself.

I've wondered if it appears as "non-support" of him in his choice
if I look down on school too forecfully. He did say, however, at the
end of the year that he was glad to be home most of the time and
definitely didn't want a full load ever. :)

What do you think?

Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/10/2003 11:32:24 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> But if the mom says "You can go to school but I myself am not going to
> become
> the fullblown school-mom. Your homework is your own business, and I'm not
> going to invest myself emotionally in your grades because I don't believe
> grades
> are good for you," it's setting a boundary. The mom is going to defend the
> peace of school-free home, and the school-attending kid needs to try to
> assist
> in that.
>
> <<I acting
> out by being "mean" also. >>
>
> I'm not even thinking of just being mean. I'm thinking worst-case scenario
> that the kid could come home and belittle the non-attending kids, or insult
> them, or posture in such ways that schooling itself becomes a big factor in
> interpersonal relations. I wouldn't look the other way and let that happen
> for a
> minute.
>
> If one of mine goes to school, I will say strongly that school is a place
> for
> them to visit, not a thing to drag home.
>
> Sandra
>

So if a child with parents who unschool, decides to go to school, they do it
but the parent does not support them in their decision? Or only if it becomes
a problem with the children/adults in the home do you not support the
attitudes?

I'm curious about what's really being said, I have one child who is thinking
about taking a semester off from college and one that wants to go and tour a
private school that one of her friends is considering going to.

She hasn't mentioned GOING to this school but it does bring up the thoughts
after reading the replies.

You REALLY would not help a child with homework that asked? I can see not
buying into the grading part of it. But I can't imagine not supporting my child
in something they really wanted to do.

Gives me something to think about. I guess if it was really something I was
against, I would not stop them but not support them either.

Thanks for the input,
glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/10/03 11:33:22 AM, julie@... writes:

<< I think I hear you saying that you have come to

a conclusion through your own research, experience and

thinking that shows you that school is not a healthy place to be

for most people. You now are saying that if your child chooses to

go to school, it's with the awareness that school isn't the

preferred lifestyle choice in your eyes because of the things you

see as deterimental. Is this close?

>>

Close enough! <g>

<<So the priority is on school-free home.??

If the other kids were still wanting to be unschoolers, for sure.


<<What if the child really does want a mom who is involved

(after-prom committee, or helping with homework,

parent-teacher conferences etc...)?>>

There are AFTER-prom committees!? yikes!
My first thought was a morning-after-pill clinic. (BAD thoughts, bad
thoughts...)

Depends. Depends on the kid, depends on the school.
My kids would probably learn pretty quickly they did NOT want parent-teacher
conferences with me there. <g> Maybe they could take their dad.

I could give them a list of surrogate moms, some friend-of-family who could
go with them for appearances maybe. <bwg>

The way I feel right now, if Marty wanted to go to high school next year I'd
be more than happy to see him in plays or go to his concerts or go to a
football game if he were a player or musician, and I would help him with homework on
an intellectual level (idea getting or explanations) but I would NOT help on
an emotional or emergency-scheduling level. If he stalled until the last
minute on a big project I would say "Hey, don't worry. It's not that big a deal."
If he got upset about the amount of nature of homework, I would say "Huh.
That's one of the worst things about school. You don't have to go to school if
you don't want to."

<<Do you think that your posture toward school could be taken

antagonistically by the child?>>

In what way?
It's not antagonism toward the child.

<< I find that my son, who only

attended one class per day this year, is quick to defend kids in

school and whether or not they are learning. he doesn't wnat me

to attack school, though he is more than willing to cite the

weaknesses of the system himself.>>

That sounds like he's being devil's advocate and doesn't want that to be a
hard thing to be. <g>

If he likes the kids in school, that's fine. The fact that he has the option
to be there and they don't is a factor he might not be able to really fathom.

<<I've wondered if it appears as "non-support" of him in his choice

if I look down on school too forecfully.>>

It WOULD be non-support of their choice if they go to school. I will NOT
fully support school. I'll fully support home, and allow school if they want it
enough to do it without my full support. I wouldn't sabotage it, but I sure
wouldn't play the school's enforcer.

Sandra

Julie Bogart

Thank you Sandra. Perfect. That really clarified it for me.

I just said to my son the other day, "You know, you really don't
have to do any of the classes you're interested in if at any point
the love you have for the topic is sucked out by school tests and
drudgery."

He grinned. "Mom, of course I KNOW that. I wouldn't stay in a
class that made me hate what I love. I'd just quit."

So, no worries. :)

Julie B

--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/10/03 11:33:22 AM, julie@b... writes:
>
> << I think I hear you saying that you have come to
>
> a conclusion through your own research, experience and
>
> thinking that shows you that school is not a healthy place to be
>
> for most people. You now are saying that if your child chooses
to
>
> go to school, it's with the awareness that school isn't the
>
> preferred lifestyle choice in your eyes because of the things
you
>
> see as deterimental. Is this close?
>
> >>
>
> Close enough! <g>
>
> <<So the priority is on school-free home.??
>
> If the other kids were still wanting to be unschoolers, for sure.
>
>
> <<What if the child really does want a mom who is involved
>
> (after-prom committee, or helping with homework,
>
> parent-teacher conferences etc...)?>>
>
> There are AFTER-prom committees!? yikes!
> My first thought was a morning-after-pill clinic. (BAD thoughts,
bad
> thoughts...)
>
> Depends. Depends on the kid, depends on the school.
> My kids would probably learn pretty quickly they did NOT want
parent-teacher
> conferences with me there. <g> Maybe they could take their
dad.
>
> I could give them a list of surrogate moms, some
friend-of-family who could
> go with them for appearances maybe. <bwg>
>
> The way I feel right now, if Marty wanted to go to high school
next year I'd
> be more than happy to see him in plays or go to his concerts or
go to a
> football game if he were a player or musician, and I would help
him with homework on
> an intellectual level (idea getting or explanations) but I would
NOT help on
> an emotional or emergency-scheduling level. If he stalled until
the last
> minute on a big project I would say "Hey, don't worry. It's not
that big a deal."
> If he got upset about the amount of nature of homework, I
would say "Huh.
> That's one of the worst things about school. You don't have to
go to school if
> you don't want to."
>
> <<Do you think that your posture toward school could be taken
>
> antagonistically by the child?>>
>
> In what way?
> It's not antagonism toward the child.
>
> << I find that my son, who only
>
> attended one class per day this year, is quick to defend kids in
>
> school and whether or not they are learning. he doesn't wnat
me
>
> to attack school, though he is more than willing to cite the
>
> weaknesses of the system himself.>>
>
> That sounds like he's being devil's advocate and doesn't want
that to be a
> hard thing to be. <g>
>
> If he likes the kids in school, that's fine. The fact that he has
the option
> to be there and they don't is a factor he might not be able to
really fathom.
>
> <<I've wondered if it appears as "non-support" of him in his
choice
>
> if I look down on school too forecfully.>>
>
> It WOULD be non-support of their choice if they go to school. I
will NOT
> fully support school. I'll fully support home, and allow school if
they want it
> enough to do it without my full support. I wouldn't sabotage it,
but I sure
> wouldn't play the school's enforcer.
>
> Sandra

Julie Bogart

> In a message dated 6/10/2003 11:32:24 AM Eastern Daylight
Time,
> SandraDodd@a... writes:

> >
> > If one of mine goes to school, I will say strongly that school is
a place
> > for
> > them to visit, not a thing to drag home.
> >
> > Sandra
> >
--- In [email protected],
rubyprincesstsg@a... wrote:

> So if a child with parents who unschool, decides to go to
school, they do it
> but the parent does not support them in their decision? Or only
if it becomes
> a problem with the children/adults in the home do you not
support the
> attitudes?
> You REALLY would not help a child with homework that
asked? I can see not
> buying into the grading part of it. But I can't imagine not
supporting my child
> in something they really wanted to do.

Glena, I'm not Sandra, but I did have a son in school this year
one period a day. It was really, really hard on me. He did fine
actually. But I found myself confronted with ugly feelings that I
had never felt before in all my years of homeschooling. i was
evalauting my son by his grades. I was worried about his
"performance" more than I was about whether he was learning. I
found myself "getting on him" to study at times I felt were
smarter, more effective and better.

This is not how we normally live!

But school brought it out in me and it was yucky. :( I guess all
those years of going to school myself suddenly came to the fore
and dominated my otherwise good sense.

The way we worked it out finally is that I let go of grades totally. I
did help my son with studying for exams because he wanted it
and I could be of help. I did pretty well until fijnal exams when I
relapsed pretty badly. I did apologize and we came to a healing
from it.

But for next year, I told him that I was going to stay out of all
studying and homework. I'm happy to offer help with material, but
not with habits or deadlines. These suck me back into MY school
mindset and it undermines him.

So when I rad Sandra's words, I took them as a defense against
my own temptation to shift how I view parenting and learning.
School is a powerful vortex that gets to those of us who've been
schooled ourselves. I didn't expect that.

Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/10/03 1:52:04 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<<
So if a child with parents who unschool, decides to go to school, they do it
but the parent does not support them in their decision? >>

I'm talking about me.
We have no central committee. There is no unschooling congress.

If YOUR child decides whatever YOU the mom decide.

If MY child decides whatever, I will do what I do.

Please, please, pleasepleaseplease stop couching your questions in the manner
in which you have here.

<<I'm curious about what's really being said, >>

Breathe, back up, and see ALL these discussions as the opinions of
individuals and please stop being defensive and antagonistic if you can possibly avoid
being so.

<<I have one child who is thinking
about taking a semester off from college and one that wants to go and tour a
private school that one of her friends is considering going to.
>>

She's in college. It's not an unschooling situation.

<<You REALLY would not help a child with homework that asked? >>

Where did you read that? You need to quote what you're asking about, because
your paraphrase is once again not close enough to what was said to answer
directly.

<< But I can't imagine not supporting my child
in something they really wanted to do.>>

Great! There it is. You're decided.

I'm not sure why your response seemed so grating, but it did. I think it was
just this:<<
So if a child with parents who unschool, decides to go to school, they do it
but the parent does not support them in their decision? >>

It sounds like you WANT to buy the kit, the pattern, the house plans for
unschooling, but you want to complain about every aspect of them. And we're
saying THERE IS no kit, pattern or blueprint. And you say "So on the One True
Blueprint..."

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/10/2003 4:02:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
julie@... writes:

> So when I rad Sandra's words, I took them as a defense against
> my own temptation to shift how I view parenting and learning.
> School is a powerful vortex that gets to those of us who've been
> schooled ourselves. I didn't expect that.
>
> Julie B
>

I would be very sad if my daughter asked to go back to school, even if it is
the chi chi private school her friend is thinking about going to.

I would also hope I wouldn't allow her to make her decision based on my
feelings.

It is probably not even an issue as she hasn't mentioned actually attending
school at all, the post just brought some thoughts and feelings into my day
that made me THINK about what I would do/say/feel if I were in that position.

Since I've had the experience already of being the PTA mom, room mom,
volunteer, AFTER PROM committee mom (it's a BIG party lock in type thing to keep kids
from finding OTHER, less desirable in the eyes of the school things to do)
and just about everything that comes with schooling, I know about it. I don't
WANT to do that again but I guess I probably would if my child asked me.

What I won't do is nod and smile and act like it matters to me that a project
is done or not done or that grades that a teacher gives matter. But then I
never really did that either, so it probably wouldn't be expected.

I can see Cait think about school and letting it pass, because her friends
bring it up very often. They think it would be really cool for her to go or
them to NOT go. Of course the most likely would be Cait going, because their
mothers are NEVER going to let them just "hang out at home".

I don't think she would want to go to even one class a day, maybe drama, she
hears it's way cool.

Thanks for your input. School is just way too stressful!

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

<<You REALLY would not help a child with homework that asked? I can see not
buying into the grading part of it. But I can't imagine not supporting my
child
in something they really wanted to do.>>

I won't speak for anyone else but you pose an interesting question. Quiet
thought provoking!

If I had a child that wanted to go to school, yes, if asked, I would help
them with their homework. Not because it was a requirement, but if my child
was truly interested and wanted my help. I would never push them to do it
in any way. They would know that I am not supportive of public schools but
that I support THEM.

Now, I wouldn't go full blast into being a room mom and supporting the
school through PTA funds, etc. UNLESS, being a room mom meant that I might
have more involvment with my child and it didn't bother my child having me
there. In that case, it would be out of my own desire to be near my child
and his desire to have me there. I would do that.

I would help with homework, if asked, just as I help out with various
schoolish things at home that my children ask for help with. Nicholette
asks to do reading and phonics work in some old workbooks and textbooks we
have and I oblige. Sometimes, I might offer another way to learn the
material, but she truly loves the schoolishness of it all. That's fine with
me. I love doing textbook work myself! I recently purchased some textbooks
from our local college to learn on my own and hopefully to later clep out of
if I decide I want a degree in something. Not that far into the future at
this time, though. <g> Right now, it's just curiosity in a new field and
something to help me out of some personal financial struggles. If it piques
my interest enough, I may later use that knowledge to become a CPA to make
some side money from home. Probably, I'll just have the knowledge for my
own good.

I think the thing is that if our children want to go to school and we are
firm believers against it, that by fully supporting it, we are going against
our own principles and giving our children a double standard. If we arm our
children with knowledge and empower them with confidence, I also believe
they will come home. I cannot imagine a child wanting to be stuck in a
situation where they have no control. Even with parents who do not adhere
to the importance of grades and such, there will be loads of pressure from
teachers, administrators, friends and the like to conform. I just don't see
how a child would stay in a situation like that. Perhaps if their social
life in school outweighs the rest, they might make those decisions. Perhaps
if they are intent on being a pro football player, they will ride out high
school in order to have that experience and exposure public school affords
football players. But, perhaps they will find the social life they crave in
ps and decide they no longer need that as an outlet and will use their
resources to continue the social life outside the school walls. They might
possibly decide that football isn't in the cards and want to come home to
fully pursue new interests.

I think school, especially for those children who have not attended, is a
fantasy; a falacy they will all too soon figure out and want to avoid in
pursuit of their own dreams. Their own lives. On their own time and in
their own way.

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/10/2003 4:18:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> She's in college. It's not an unschooling situation.
>
>

She's NOT in college, my son is and is considering not going back in the
fall. One looking at leaving the "formal" world of education and one showing a
minute interest in returning to it.



<I
It sounds like you WANT to buy the kit, the pattern, the house plans for
unschooling, but you want to complain about every aspect of them.  And we're
saying THERE IS no kit, pattern or blueprint.  And you say "So on the One
True
Blueprint..."
Sandra>

Nope, no kit or pattern, just asking others thoughts and opinions, I
recognize no one here is going to tell me THIS is the way it HAS to be done and the
ONLY way, well they MIGHT but we all make up our own minds in the end.

I'm not complaining about anything either. Just wondering to what level you
would or would not support a child that chooses school. I think it was
clearly answered.

My post was actually written much earlier in the day but just came through.
It is NOT meant to be antagonistic in anyway and I'm not sure why you feel it
was.

<If one of mine goes to school, I will say strongly that school is a place
for
them to visit, not a thing to drag home.
Sandra>

I guess this statement made me think that you would feel it was something
your child was doing on his/her own and wasn't really up for discussion or
involvement at home. Kinda like well go if you want to but don't drag home that
part of your life. In a post since this one, I can see that is not what you
meant at all. That was what worried me the part I just copied above. If a child
went to school it would obviously be a BIG part of their life and day and I
didn't understand the thoughts of not bringing home their "day" to share.

I do see that you've expounded on that thought later and I understand fully
what you are saying.

It was a post that interested me as I was pondering if my child really might
think about attending school next year and how I personally would feel about
it. Wondering about how others have or might handle a similar circumstance.

I think the replies were thoughtful and very helpful.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

<<Quiet thought provoking!>>

Hehe, quiet? Not I! I meant quite, but whatever. <g>

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <rubyprincesstsg@...>

<<So if a child with parents who unschool, decides to go to school, they do
it
but the parent does not support them in their decision? Or only if it
becomes
a problem with the children/adults in the home do you not support the
attitudes?

I'm curious about what's really being said, I have one child who is thinking
about taking a semester off from college and one that wants to go and tour a
private school that one of her friends is considering going to.>>


I'm answerinjg because I've somewhat been there. Although Tara was always in
school, I wanted her to come home. Very much so. She was really on the fence
about what to do. We laid out a few choices and I left it all up to her. She
chose school. I did support her decision, although I didn't like it, because
we both understood exactly what that meant for each of us. She also had the
choice to stop at any time.

I am not an involved school mom. Did that when she was younger and I thought
I had no choice and wanted to make the best of it. I go to school when it
has to do with college, which she wants to go to, or a matter of her safety.
Her homework is hers along in the fact that I don't ask what she has or if
she's done it. If she needs any kind of help with a project, she'll ask I
certainly help with what I can. Grades are no big deal to me and she is much
more relaxed now in how she looks at them. So from that, she's actually
doing better and does like the grades she gets. When she brings home the
report, I ask first of all if she is happy with it and look at the comments
and ask about those and the teachers. It's not all well did you get A's or
B's?? If she's happy and satisfied, then I am happy for her. If she isn't,
we talk about making it work better for her.

If there is any problem at school that she talks to me about, and we talk a
lot and it's only natural that some of those stories involve school, I will
ask if I can do anything to help. The answer has always been no and she
handles matters just fine.

So I do support her decision along with helping when I can, when she wants
it. I offer her tools to manage the things she needs help with, whether it's
because of school or something else. It's not very schooly at all. It's
pretty much like she has a job during the day and we talk about it
afterwards.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/10/2003 2:35:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> It WOULD be non-support of their choice if they go to school. I will NOT
> fully support school. I'll fully support home, and allow school if they
> want it
> enough to do it without my full support. I wouldn't sabotage it, but I sure
>
> wouldn't play the school's enforcer

This is the stance we have taken with the kids in school this past year. One
teacher, at the beginning of the school year, would tell our foster son to
"wait" to go to the bathroom. I told him if she tells you to wait, you get up,
go to the bathroom, and tell them to call your mom if they have a problem. I
have no patience for stupid rules. Our situation with them, though, is we
were not allowed to homeschool them...otherwise I'd have pulled them out 2 years
ago.

I am doing pretty much what you explained in your post, with my 2 girls (they
are older) who are in school. I help them when they're stuck on homework, I
buy them things they need for school, but if they complain about getting up in
the morning, or the bus ride, or the homework, or the teachers, I let them
know I understand how they feel, but they knew this is how it would be when they
began attending.

I do not do the whole "school mom" thing. I go to conferences, I talk with
the foster boy's special ed teachers when there are problems, and I send
cookies and such with them to school for parties. I have attended field trips too.
BUT...I don't make them do homework I feel is useless, or over their heads,
or BORING...They have gotten some bad grades, maybe because of missed homework,
but oh well. The school has pretty much written them off as handicapped or
retarded, so we're just crossing our fingers and toes that the adoption will be
far enough along that they won't have to go back and deal with the school's
crap next year.

I am going to ask my daughters to read the "Teenage Liberation Handbook" over
the summer. I'm going to take them to cool places, help my oldest daughter
get a job and a car...maybe bribe a little bit (I know, awful of me,...) Maybe
plan some cool trips for the 12 year old and remind her that she could do
these things all year round if she wasn't in school. I'm going to take her much
more often to our cool unschooling friend's house and let her stay the night a
bunch with them.

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Robyn Coburn

<<<A bad mood that's contained within the person is one thing. A new
attitude with which they torment siblings school-style is another thing
altogether.....If a child can go and live there and then shake it off at
the door so that they don't inflict it on their otherwise homeschooled
family, that's using school for their personal reasons AT SCHOOL.>>>





Thanks for the reply, Sandra. I get what you were saying now -
specifically in the light of hurting other members of the household,
more than going through an internal process of feeling bad and needing
support to deal with it.

Phew! Thank goodness. For a moment there I was in a kind of shock - as
if I had been looking at bedrock and then touched it and it was just
papier-mache. Denying your children permission to feel bad didn't seem
like something that you would advocate - I'm so happy and relieved to
have confirmation that is not what you meant.

Robyn Coburn









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]