jmcseals SEALS

<<After watching the 3rd one this weekend I conceded that the 2nd one wasn't
all
that bad after all. LOL>>

I don't know why but this made me crack up...and loud!!! We haven't seen
the last one but my kids are DYING to see it. My Nicholette thinks Beyonce
is IT in Goldmember! LOL She has always loved black baby dolls and told me
today that she wishes she were black, like Beyonce, even though they are
really brown, and why DO they call them black when they are brown, and why
are we white if we are peach and how come Mexican people are brown but we
don't call them brown, we call them Mexican or Tino's (her version of
Latino) and why is Gramma black but we are white? ROFL! (My grandmother is
white but her skin is very dark brown and she has the standard old lady
afro. Even my great grandfather, who was driving us around, was laughing!

Not long ago, we were in line in the grocery store and Caeleb was very
intently watching a black woman in front of us. My first thought was that
he was aware that she was black because I remember when Ethan figured out
that some people don't "look" like us. He thought the man he saw was
'burned like a cookie'. The man laughed so hard he was crying and hugged
Ethan. :) I digress. So, Caeleb is watching this woman and suddenly yells,
GRAMMA!! and lunged into her arms! She held him and nervously asked me why
he thought she was his Grandmother. I explained that she looked just like
his Gramma and then she asked me if his Gramma was black "cause those babies
are white as a Klenex!" ROFL!

Boy, here I go again, off on a tangent! I just love how their little brains
work!

Jennifer

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moonstarshooter

> My Nicholette thinks Beyonce
> is IT in Goldmember! LOL She has always loved black baby dolls
and told me
> today that she wishes she were black, like Beyonce, even though
they are
> really brown, and why DO they call them black when they are brown,
and why
> are we white if we are peach and how come Mexican people are brown
but we
> don't call them brown, we call them Mexican or Tino's (her version
of
> Latino) and why is Gramma black but we are white? ROFL! (My
grandmother is
> white but her skin is very dark brown and she has the standard old
lady
> afro.

I have never seen any need in labeling people black or white, and
luckily my daughter has not yet picked up labels otherwise. She
doesn't say "black people" but she may say, "that girl with the brown
skin and red dress" just as easily as she would say "that girl with
the blond hair and red dress."

One day my nephews were over and I don't remember how it came up in
conversation, but they referred to themselves as white. She looked
at them like they must have been toddlers not to know their colors
and said with the most confused tone, "What do you mean white? We're
ORANGE." They laughed at her. She just looked at them like they
were nuts.

Tory

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 9:32:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
torywalk@... writes:

> One day my nephews were over and I don't remember how it came up in
> conversation, but they referred to themselves as white. She looked
> at them like they must have been toddlers not to know their colors
> and said with the most confused tone, "What do you mean white? We're
> ORANGE." They laughed at her. She just looked at them like they
> were nuts.
>

The other day Kass was online in a kid chat room and some one asked her age,
sex and ethnicity. She said 11 f, mixed. That got a tons of questions in the
chat and since my kids have never had any issues with being mixed she was
shocked at the amount of horrible things that were said after that. She turned
around and said, "Mom, these people are so lame they aren't worthy of knowing
which races we are." I said "Can you think of an answer that doesn't include fuck
you in it, (my kids are allowed to use whatever verbiage they feel the need to
as long as it's used in the right context, maybe that's for another thread
though) so the cyber police don't revoke your chat priviledges?" She thought for
a few seconds and simply typed....Human race. I was pretty proud of her for
that one. She then exited the chat and went about her day. I would have been
fine had she used my first thought of F**K you, but I was glad she voiced to me
her disgruntledness at the things she was reading. And just taking a second to
think it out, she came up with a much better answer.

Rhonda


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

moonstarshooter

> She has always loved black baby dolls

I had a friend who took her daughter to Wal-Mart to buy Barbie
dollhouse furniture. While there, the daughter (a very fair-skinned
blond girl) saw a "black" Barbie family and asked if she could get
those. The mom felt a little funny about it, so she just said that
they were there to buy furniture.

The daughter looked around a little more, but wouldn't choose
anything. The mom asked why she didn't want anything and she
said, "I wanted the pretty people, mommy, but you said I couldn't
have them." Needless to say, she got to buy the pretty people.
(This was a pastor's wife, so she felt ashamed of herself anyway, on
top of the beautiful wisdom of her child.)

Tory

jmcseals SEALS

<<I have never seen any need in labeling people black or white, and
luckily my daughter has not yet picked up labels otherwise.>>

Unfortunately, my kids are very aware of labels. Fortunately, we are able
to talk about them when they come up. I don't see how it would be possible
to shield them from labels without removing every form of media from our
home, as well as extended family.

Jennifer

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Mary

From: "moonstarshooter" <torywalk@...>

<<I have never seen any need in labeling people black or white, and
luckily my daughter has not yet picked up labels otherwise. She
doesn't say "black people" but she may say, "that girl with the brown
skin and red dress" just as easily as she would say "that girl with
the blond hair and red dress." >>


My in laws are very color/religious/nationality/gender/sexual preference
conscious. Tara's family is too. My mom will specify when talking about
someone she met or someone in public as to whether they are hispanic or
black or jewish, anything but just "white." With the way we are here, (and
me calling her on it <BEG>) she's not so bad anymore. Joe and I are in no
way like that. My kids don't get that any of those things makes a difference
at all to us. We've never mentioned someone being black or white or brown.

So one day at the park, Joseph is telling me about something that happened
there. He's about 4 and mentions the black man over there. I was quite taken
aback by the term. I asked him to repeat it and again it was the black man.
So I'm looking and see no such person. He pointed him out to me and it was a
man wearing all black. He also happened to be with the purple lady!!!!! They
go by the color of top you are wearing. Even now at 7 and 8, Sierra and
Joseph still do that when needing to point someone out. It's cute and very
appropriate. Alyssa has started doing it now too. I love that!!!

Mary B (who is actually white now)

moonstarshooter

--- In [email protected], "jmcseals SEALS"
<jmcseals@m...> wrote:

> Unfortunately, my kids are very aware of labels. Fortunately, we
are able
> to talk about them when they come up. I don't see how it would be
possible
> to shield them from labels without removing every form of media
from our
> home, as well as extended family.

Honestly, I am shocked that my daughter has not picked it up yet.
(Or maybe if she has, it just made no sense to her.) I sometimes
wonder if I should bring it up, just so that when it does come up she
will know what people mean. But I started wondering that when she
was 3, and she is 6 now, and it has not been an issue, so I figure
why make it one? I haven't really thought about it much recently. I
was in the middle of about 5 different things when my nephews were
here and that conversation happened, and I had not thought about it
again until I read your post. Now you got me thinking again.... ;)

Tory

jmcseals SEALS

<<He pointed him out to me and it was a
man wearing all black. He also happened to be with the purple lady!!!!! They
go by the color of top you are wearing. Even now at 7 and 8, Sierra and
Joseph still do that when needing to point someone out. It's cute and very
appropriate. Alyssa has started doing it now too. I love that!!!>>

I love it too! How sweet. :)

Jennifer

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Mary

From: "moonstarshooter" <torywalk@...>

<<Honestly, I am shocked that my daughter has not picked it up yet.
(Or maybe if she has, it just made no sense to her.) I sometimes
wonder if I should bring it up, just so that when it does come up she
will know what people mean. But I started wondering that when she
was 3, and she is 6 now, and it has not been an issue, so I figure
why make it one?>>



I've never pointed that out to my kids. But they have heard it and wondered
what it meant. I don't remember how, maybe on TV but I do remembe both
Joseph and Sierra coming to me one day asking what it meant when people were
black or white. So I explained, which didn't make sense to them because they
never saw anyone who WAS actually black or white. We talked about skin color
and some other ways of referring to people. They think it's silly to label
people by body. Makes more sense to do so by their shirts!!! Sometimes when
they are trying to explain someone that I'm just not seeing, like a kid from
camp or something, they go through clothes color, (which doesn't help me
any) hair color, eye color, tall or short and them possibly skin color. But
it's a science as they try to get so exact. Not exactly brown but kind of
tan but darker or not peach but lighter but not cream. It's real tough!!!
That doesn't happen often at all though.

Mary B

Mary B

Tracy

--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
They think it's silly to label
> people by body. Makes more sense to do so by their shirts!!!
Sometimes when
> they are trying to explain someone that I'm just not seeing, like a
kid from
> camp or something, they go through clothes color, (which doesn't
help me
> any) hair color, eye color, tall or short and them possibly skin
color. But
> it's a science as they try to get so exact. Not exactly brown but
kind of
> tan but darker or not peach but lighter but not cream. It's real
tough!!!
> That doesn't happen often at all though.

Doesn't come up much here though it does sometimes. And we have had
to say things to some family members.
The latest was the other day with my middle child. We were in a
ethnic beauty supply store, {a bit different then Sally's} to get
some more purple color they had been asking for.
We she did notice the difference and started asking questions.
Nothing major and I answered about the difference in caucasion hair
and ethnic hair. Even had the customers joining in. LOL She asked
about all the hair on the walls and I answered and told her about
different hairstyles and how ethnic hair grows ... No biggie she just
wants to know about everything.
I have always bought ethnic dolls and barbies right along with the
others they get and at first got strange looks or comments from
family. Eventually they stopped because they have learned we are
going to do what we want, not what everyone else does.
Right now their favorite is the "BRATS" dolls. They have had them
since they started being produced{well when they first saw them},
tho, I think now they are cool to have. They just liked the clothes
and liked the different skin colors. They also like the Lisa Frank
dolls with the orange, bright yellow, and purple hair.
Tracy

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/03 5:23:43 AM, torywalk@... writes:

<< But I started wondering that when she

was 3, and she is 6 now, and it has not been an issue, so I figure

why make it one? >>

I agree. My oldest is 8, and still doesn't know those labels. A couple of
weeks ago, my daughter, 5, wanted me to see the pretty dress a lady was wearing,
and said it was the lady with the pretty dark skin, just the same as she's
before said pretty light (as in blond) hair, or pretty green shoes.
Lara........

Mary

From: "Tracy" <sablehs@...>

<<I have always bought ethnic dolls and barbies right along with the
others they get and at first got strange looks or comments from
family. Eventually they stopped because they have learned we are
going to do what we want, not what everyone else does.>>



Oh I had comments from my first set of in laws when Tara started getting
Barbie's of color. That family was actually worse than the in laws now. Tara
still gets upset with them and when Tara had a boyfriend of color, man was
that just nuts with them. Anyway, all the Barbie's were handed down to the
kids now and with them, it's just something they have taken for granted. How
very different we all are. Joseph has made the remark about how all of us
are a different color too. Luckily we live in a very diverse neighborhood. I
purposefully looked for that when we were house hunting. So to them, every
day is real life.

I grew up in a very all white non ethnic small town neighborhood. Like 5
kids of color in my whole school. One jewish kid. No asian or hispanic
people at all. All afluent and catholic. Moved to downtown Miami when I was
18. Talk about culture shock!!!!!

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 11:08:54 PM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< Unfortunately, my kids are very aware of labels. Fortunately, we are able
to talk about them when they come up. I don't see how it would be possible
to shield them from labels without removing every form of media from our
home, as well as extended family. >>

We did really well at it, somehow. Two things I've consciously not had here
(and one my husband just mentioned the other day, and I said no, they can
discover it later on their own): Roots and Blazing Saddles. I grew up with
ignorant Texas relatives who used "the 'n' word" but my kids had not heard it.
They described people by skin color. "Not as dark as LeVar Burton," I think it
was once, and I didn't "correct" that, I took it as the informational phrase
it was. One of Holly's best friends now is African American and so some
questions have come up. It's a need to know situation, just as with all the best
learning. By the time my kids were old enough to be analytical, they were
appalled at the idea that within the lifetimes of people now living that
segregation was legal. They think it's crazy. That's good. They choose their
friends and casual conversations by indications other than color and age. They go
by who seems friendly or who's interested in what they're interested in.
That's good.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 11:20:28 PM, mummy124@... writes:

<< So one day at the park, Joseph is telling me about something that happened

there. He's about 4 and mentions the black man over there. I was quite taken

aback by the term. I asked him to repeat it and again it was the black man.

So I'm looking and see no such person. He pointed him out to me and it was a

man wearing all black. He also happened to be with the purple lady!!!!! They

go by the color of top you are wearing. >>

Kirby did that once. My friend Jeff, who now has two boys of his own,
reminded me.

We had gotten the video of Spike Lee Does it ACAPELLA, and Kirby, who was
four or five, was showing Jeff one of his favorite parts. Kirby said he really
liked the bass, and Jeff said "The black guy?" Kirby looked at him curiously.
I was standing behind Kirby motioning to Jeff to waive off. Jeff looked at
ME curiously. Kirby said "You mean the guy in the black jacket?" Jeff
identified the guy by jacket color (I don't remember that part now) and Kirby
continued to tell him what was cool about that song.

Later Jeff said WHAT? And I said "He doesn't know the term 'black' as
applied to people."
WHY?
And I told him I thought it was the best I could do toward helping him REALLY
see people as individuals.

I was also not identifying groups of "subjects," like math, science and
history. That lasted many years too. And it helped a lot in my seeing that their
learning was both more homogenous and more granulated (hard to describe what I
mean) than if they were identifying academic areas.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/2003 9:47:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> I grew up in a very all white non ethnic small town neighborhood. Like 5
> kids of color in my whole school. One jewish kid. No asian or hispanic
> people at all. All afluent and catholic. Moved to downtown Miami when I was
> 18. Talk about culture shock!!!!!
>

We did the opposite...I grew up in Long Beach CA, and before moving here,
lived in a very mixed neighborhood in Los Angeles County. We moved here to a
tiny town in West Virginia, and THAT was the biggest culture shock I've ever
had. There are exactly 3 AA kids in the entire high school. None in our foster
son's elementary school.

Hardest though was getting used to the small town life compared to city life.
We got so tired of being asked WHY we moved here my husband joked with some
people up at the local store that it'd be easier to tell people we're in the
witness protection program.

2 weeks later my daughter's friend was not allowed to come to our house...
Rumors fly fast here. I had to convince daughter's friend's family that my
husband was joking....

Nancy


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: <CelticFrau@...>

<<my husband joked with some
people up at the local store that it'd be easier to tell people we're in the
witness protection program.

2 weeks later my daughter's friend was not allowed to come to our house...
Rumors fly fast here. I had to convince daughter's friend's family that my
husband was joking....>>


LOL!!! I'm going to remember that if I ever want to keep anyone away!!!

Mary B