Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Introduction/college
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/2003 2:26:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
all about careers and schooly things? When my oldest decided to go I was
excited for her and sad of course to see her leave, but it was about so much MORE
than just school and career. It was about learning about herself, and learning
about people and places and all kinds of things she had never been around
(tiny college town in the middle of cotton farming families).
Learning to get along with people she hadn't chosen to be with but
circumstances put them together, oh, there is SO much more than just the educational
requirements for her career that she learned and enjoyed about college.
College is a sort of right of passage in many ways isn't it? My oldest son
didn't want to go to college, so he didn't. In many ways I wished he had gone
to college, just for the fun and excitement of it all, even if he didn't want
a career that required it. Life can be hard and while I respected his
choices, I secretly longed to see him be more of a boy without so much responsibility
at a young age. It's hard to see him out in very cold weather and come home
with sore bleeding hands just so he can pay his bills, barely, but it was his
choice and things are better for him now. But it was hard as a mother to know
he could have been in a nice warm dorm room somewhere exploring so many new
things and worrying about which party he would be at next.
I do know that some parents expect college and mostly for the career part of
it, but I really think it holds so much more for children/young adults/adults
who WANT to be there.
Would it upset me if I paid for four or five years of college to have my son
come home and go into the construction industry which he could have done right
out of high school, not at all. I do know that it probably would be a
different story with dad though.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> they kinda used to want to but now they're so sick of school schedules andDo you think (and this is for anyone who wants to respond) that college is
> lectures and textbooks that they won't even consider more of that for a
> while (if
> ever), and then some of them will be forced to go to college by pushy
> wealthy
> families, and will go resistently and will waste much time and money doing
> something they never for one second chose or want.
>
>
all about careers and schooly things? When my oldest decided to go I was
excited for her and sad of course to see her leave, but it was about so much MORE
than just school and career. It was about learning about herself, and learning
about people and places and all kinds of things she had never been around
(tiny college town in the middle of cotton farming families).
Learning to get along with people she hadn't chosen to be with but
circumstances put them together, oh, there is SO much more than just the educational
requirements for her career that she learned and enjoyed about college.
College is a sort of right of passage in many ways isn't it? My oldest son
didn't want to go to college, so he didn't. In many ways I wished he had gone
to college, just for the fun and excitement of it all, even if he didn't want
a career that required it. Life can be hard and while I respected his
choices, I secretly longed to see him be more of a boy without so much responsibility
at a young age. It's hard to see him out in very cold weather and come home
with sore bleeding hands just so he can pay his bills, barely, but it was his
choice and things are better for him now. But it was hard as a mother to know
he could have been in a nice warm dorm room somewhere exploring so many new
things and worrying about which party he would be at next.
I do know that some parents expect college and mostly for the career part of
it, but I really think it holds so much more for children/young adults/adults
who WANT to be there.
Would it upset me if I paid for four or five years of college to have my son
come home and go into the construction industry which he could have done right
out of high school, not at all. I do know that it probably would be a
different story with dad though.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>Do you think (and this is for anyone who wants to respond) that college isIt wasn't designed to be. It shouldn't be. But people go into it with
>all about careers and schooly things?
those expectations and the economy is changing to make it more like that.
The most fun I had in college (well, ok, not the most fun -leer-) was the
chance to take a class just because it looked interesting.
I have recommended to students that they do what I did. Most schools have a
"basic requirements" list. You have to have two arts, two history, etc. I
took any class that looked good so long as it fulfilled a requirement I
didn't already have. I was just filling in the blanks with things that
looked good.
At the end of two years I sat back and looked at what I'd taken. Funny, I
was about halfway to a degree in English Lit with a minor in Anthro.
Without even trying.
So suddenly, I knew what I wanted to study. -grin-
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/5/03 5:03:17 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< Do you think (and this is for anyone who wants to respond) that college is
all about careers and schooly things? >>
Well it was also about drugs and staying all night in the boys' dorm and
meeting homeless drugged out freaks who told glorious long lies, and alcoholic
panhandlers of different ethnicity, and flashers and learning that if a
panhandler borrowed a baby she got more money in a flash.
I'm still in contact with a couple of my professors, and several of my
friends from then. I met the love of my life and failed to maintain the connection
afterward out of immature impatience (but he contacted me again last year
after 18 years of silence during which I figured he must have died, since we had
stayed in contact quite a few years after).
<<It was about learning about herself, and learning
about people and places and all kinds of things she had never been around
(tiny college town in the middle of cotton farming families).
<<Learning to get along with people she hadn't chosen to be with but
circumstances put them together,>>
That could be done with public school.
<<College is a sort of right of passage in many ways isn't it?>>
Rite of passage. Root word of "ritual," ceremonial function.
Used to be, in certain classes.
If not everyone does it, it's not a "rite," though.
It can resemble more an initiation or a hazing or an elimination of the
unworthy.
<< It's hard to see him out in very cold weather and come home
with sore bleeding hands just so he can pay his bills, barely, but it was his
choice and things are better for him now. >>
There are college grads (and dropouts) doing menial labor to pay off school
loans.
College isn't a guarantee.
Sandra
<< Do you think (and this is for anyone who wants to respond) that college is
all about careers and schooly things? >>
Well it was also about drugs and staying all night in the boys' dorm and
meeting homeless drugged out freaks who told glorious long lies, and alcoholic
panhandlers of different ethnicity, and flashers and learning that if a
panhandler borrowed a baby she got more money in a flash.
I'm still in contact with a couple of my professors, and several of my
friends from then. I met the love of my life and failed to maintain the connection
afterward out of immature impatience (but he contacted me again last year
after 18 years of silence during which I figured he must have died, since we had
stayed in contact quite a few years after).
<<It was about learning about herself, and learning
about people and places and all kinds of things she had never been around
(tiny college town in the middle of cotton farming families).
>>That can be done without college tuition and pressures, though.
<<Learning to get along with people she hadn't chosen to be with but
circumstances put them together,>>
That could be done with public school.
<<College is a sort of right of passage in many ways isn't it?>>
Rite of passage. Root word of "ritual," ceremonial function.
Used to be, in certain classes.
If not everyone does it, it's not a "rite," though.
It can resemble more an initiation or a hazing or an elimination of the
unworthy.
<< It's hard to see him out in very cold weather and come home
with sore bleeding hands just so he can pay his bills, barely, but it was his
choice and things are better for him now. >>
There are college grads (and dropouts) doing menial labor to pay off school
loans.
College isn't a guarantee.
Sandra
Tim and Maureen
College mortgaged my (our) future to the hilt! Not a guarantee is CORRECT! It's a debt unless you are from a wealthy family. Class-based or what!
I have two degrees and I'd trade either one for two more years of Toastmasters. FARRRR more practical in the work world. Teaches all the "benefits" of a college education + leadership (NO, there is no practical leadership taught in any college cirric I've seen, they teach the theory of leadership - totally different!), speaking your mind, and persuading others. This makes managers and entrepreneurs, NOT FRIGGIN' school. Take it from a guy who only uses the pieces of paper as an easy means of getting interviews.
As Sher says in Wishcraft, you don't need a degree unless you want to be a regulated profession - doctor, lawyer, engineer.
My(morning) thots.
Tim
I have two degrees and I'd trade either one for two more years of Toastmasters. FARRRR more practical in the work world. Teaches all the "benefits" of a college education + leadership (NO, there is no practical leadership taught in any college cirric I've seen, they teach the theory of leadership - totally different!), speaking your mind, and persuading others. This makes managers and entrepreneurs, NOT FRIGGIN' school. Take it from a guy who only uses the pieces of paper as an easy means of getting interviews.
As Sher says in Wishcraft, you don't need a degree unless you want to be a regulated profession - doctor, lawyer, engineer.
My(morning) thots.
Tim
----- Original Message -----
From: sandradodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, June 06, 2003 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Introduction/college
In a message dated 6/5/03 5:03:17 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< Do you think (and this is for anyone who wants to respond) that college is
all about careers and schooly things? >>
Well it was also about drugs and staying all night in the boys' dorm and
meeting homeless drugged out freaks who told glorious long lies, and alcoholic
panhandlers of different ethnicity, and flashers and learning that if a
panhandler borrowed a baby she got more money in a flash.
I'm still in contact with a couple of my professors, and several of my
friends from then. I met the love of my life and failed to maintain the connection
afterward out of immature impatience (but he contacted me again last year
after 18 years of silence during which I figured he must have died, since we had
stayed in contact quite a few years after).
<<It was about learning about herself, and learning
about people and places and all kinds of things she had never been around
(tiny college town in the middle of cotton farming families).
>>
That can be done without college tuition and pressures, though.
<<Learning to get along with people she hadn't chosen to be with but
circumstances put them together,>>
That could be done with public school.
<<College is a sort of right of passage in many ways isn't it?>>
Rite of passage. Root word of "ritual," ceremonial function.
Used to be, in certain classes.
If not everyone does it, it's not a "rite," though.
It can resemble more an initiation or a hazing or an elimination of the
unworthy.
<< It's hard to see him out in very cold weather and come home
with sore bleeding hands just so he can pay his bills, barely, but it was his
choice and things are better for him now. >>
There are college grads (and dropouts) doing menial labor to pay off school
loans.
College isn't a guarantee.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
I was discussing this post with my dh this morning. I was telling
him how I loved college, it was such an enlightening experience and
time for me. Of course, I had to add that I also needed alot of
enlightenment..LMAO! My parents were not too open minded and
although I was the black sheep I was still pretty rigid. IT was a
wonderful time for me to explore different topics, classes, some
things that may have seemed "UGH" at first that I loved. Big shift
in thinking for me at this time!
Ironically, the next train of thought was hopefully my kids will
experience this before they get to that age. Maybe they won't need
so much enlightenment! I am really quite comfortable with my kids not
going to college. My only hope for them is them is they find what
they love and understand that even that will require determination
and work. Of course, if by 18 they have no direction I admit I will
be a wreck, but they are 2 and 4 so I have plenty of time!
Anyway, interesting how college has this *unschooling* quality where
you can take classes that are of interest to you (besides the
requirements) and most often direct your own learning in that you
don't have attendance, etc. Of course, this is if you are not
following a specific career track that truely interests you. What
happened to the wonderful respect of Humanities degrees? I don't
think unschooled kids need that college time to *grow up* or *find
themselves*, hopefully by that age they have already done alot of the
ground work for that.
Also, I never did the sororities and such. No regrets there, to me
that was another pecking order system. Any group that needs hazing,
even in moderate forms, is copying the structure of much of the
parenting that goes on and the schooling that they were exposed to.
Of course, this is just my experience with it so maybe someone from
the inside may have a more in depth understanding.
Olga :)
Gosh, I got long winded there!
him how I loved college, it was such an enlightening experience and
time for me. Of course, I had to add that I also needed alot of
enlightenment..LMAO! My parents were not too open minded and
although I was the black sheep I was still pretty rigid. IT was a
wonderful time for me to explore different topics, classes, some
things that may have seemed "UGH" at first that I loved. Big shift
in thinking for me at this time!
Ironically, the next train of thought was hopefully my kids will
experience this before they get to that age. Maybe they won't need
so much enlightenment! I am really quite comfortable with my kids not
going to college. My only hope for them is them is they find what
they love and understand that even that will require determination
and work. Of course, if by 18 they have no direction I admit I will
be a wreck, but they are 2 and 4 so I have plenty of time!
Anyway, interesting how college has this *unschooling* quality where
you can take classes that are of interest to you (besides the
requirements) and most often direct your own learning in that you
don't have attendance, etc. Of course, this is if you are not
following a specific career track that truely interests you. What
happened to the wonderful respect of Humanities degrees? I don't
think unschooled kids need that college time to *grow up* or *find
themselves*, hopefully by that age they have already done alot of the
ground work for that.
Also, I never did the sororities and such. No regrets there, to me
that was another pecking order system. Any group that needs hazing,
even in moderate forms, is copying the structure of much of the
parenting that goes on and the schooling that they were exposed to.
Of course, this is just my experience with it so maybe someone from
the inside may have a more in depth understanding.
Olga :)
Gosh, I got long winded there!
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/5/03 5:03:17 PM, rubyprincesstsg@a... writes:
>
> << Do you think (and this is for anyone who wants to respond) that
college is
> all about careers and schooly things? >>
>
> Well it was also about drugs and staying all night in the boys'
dorm and
> meeting homeless drugged out freaks who told glorious long lies,
and alcoholic
> panhandlers of different ethnicity, and flashers and learning that
if a
> panhandler borrowed a baby she got more money in a flash.
>
> I'm still in contact with a couple of my professors, and several of
my
> friends from then. I met the love of my life and failed to
maintain the connection
> afterward out of immature impatience (but he contacted me again
last year
> after 18 years of silence during which I figured he must have died,
since we had
> stayed in contact quite a few years after).
>
> <<It was about learning about herself, and learning
> about people and places and all kinds of things she had never been
around
> (tiny college town in the middle of cotton farming families).
> >>
>
> That can be done without college tuition and pressures, though.
>
> <<Learning to get along with people she hadn't chosen to be with
but
> circumstances put them together,>>
>
> That could be done with public school.
>
> <<College is a sort of right of passage in many ways isn't it?>>
>
> Rite of passage. Root word of "ritual," ceremonial function.
> Used to be, in certain classes.
> If not everyone does it, it's not a "rite," though.
> It can resemble more an initiation or a hazing or an elimination of
the
> unworthy.
>
> << It's hard to see him out in very cold weather and come home
> with sore bleeding hands just so he can pay his bills, barely, but
it was his
> choice and things are better for him now. >>
>
> There are college grads (and dropouts) doing menial labor to pay
off school
> loans.
> College isn't a guarantee.
>
> Sandra