phred

I just wanted to share this, please excuse the length

Yesterday Jaiden was playing with some pre-school workbooks that my
mom had gotten for him. We were sitting on the couch and he was
having me read the directions of the pages he couldn't figure out on
his own. We came to a page that had three sections with three
unrealated objects, you were supossed to figure out wich two were the
same color and then color them.

Jaiden was kinda stuck on one that had a piece of fruit(looked like a
plum to me), a bunch of grapes, and a duck. I asked him if he needed
some help, he then explained to me that he didn't need help, but that
the workbook people had messed up. There were to many awnsers to that
question.

I was stumped, to me the plum and the grapes were the awnser and I
couldn't figure out for the life of me what he was talking about.
Part of me was getting frusterated with jaiden, but I took a deep
breath and asked him is he would tell me what it was that he was
seeing because I didn't see what he was seeing. This is what he
explained to me.

If the fruit was a plum, then it went with the grapes, but what if
they were green grapes, not purple grapes? Then the plum couldn't go
with the green grapes, and the plum couldn't go with the duck. So
maybe it wasn't a plum. Maybe it was a peach or a necterine, and it
was yellow/orange, it didn't go with the grapes, it would go wiht the
duck. But, we had been looking at ducks a week ago, and he didn't see
any yellow dunks, the only yellow duck he had seen was his rubber
ducky, and the picture looked like a real duck, not a plastic one. So
he decided that the fruit wasn't part of the awnser, it was the
grapes and the duck. I was still stumped and asked him if he would
tell me how he figured it out. This is his reasoning. His favorite
grapes are green, but the steam is brown, so the grapes are green and
brown, The ducks we saw at the park had green heads and brown bodys
(mallard ducks, I think) so they both were green and brown.

I was speachless. I am so glad I took a deep breath and let him do it
his way.

Rebecca

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/4/03 10:54:43 AM, elfmama@... writes:

<< So

he decided that the fruit wasn't part of the awnser, it was the

grapes and the duck. >>

WONDERFUL story and I'm going to enshrine it somewhere unless you can talk me
out of it.

Anyone else have any other stories of "wrong" answers being better than the
lame "right" one? I'll collect them right up. I have a few to add, and we can
keep adding to the collection!

Sandra

Rebecca DeLong

SandraDodd@... wrote:

<<<WONDERFUL story and I'm going to enshrine it somewhere unless you can talk me
out of it.

Anyone else have any other stories of "wrong" answers being better than the
lame "right" one? I'll collect them right up. I have a few to add, and we can
keep adding to the collection!>>>



I wont try to talk you out of it, your more than welcome to put it anyware you'd like.

I'm still amazed this morning at the thought process that he went through. I don't think I ever did anything like that at his age, he's 4. But then I was put into a church school around 4, and you had to do things the "right way"

I think you should include the story of Holly and turning the minuses into pluses. I loved that story.

Rebecca



*~*Leave the crowd, look within, and let your dreams soar*~*

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

This is a little different, but is an example of right/wrong answer.

I was sitting in on a Sunday School class a number of years ago. The topic
was love. The teacher talked about Jesus loves you and asked the kids who
else loves you? Kids answered mom, grandpa, my teacher, etc. Then the
teacher said that Jesus wants you to love your enemies. One very excited
kid waved his hand in the air and then said he loves the devil.

The teacher freaked out and said no, you shouldn't love the devil, then
changed the subject. I could see the kid was crushed and couldn't
understand why he was "wrong". I thought how very right he was. Who else
would be the ultimate enemy of Jesus but the devil? I felt the teacher
missed a great opportunity for real thinking and discussion, but I suppose
that wasn't the point of the Sunday school class.

We only visited that church a few times, and I've never seen that teacher or
kid since.

Mary Ellen

Mary

From: "phred" <elfmama@...>


<<I was speachless. I am so glad I took a deep breath and let him do it
his way. >>



As I was first reading, I so knew what you were dealing with. When my kids
liked doing work book pages, some of them were darn confusing to me even.
Pictures were hard to figure out. What in the world was that supposed to
be?????

I loved your story and am glad too he was able to get to the point of
finding the answer himself. What a good job he did!!!!
Thanks for sharing.

Mary B

[email protected]

SandraDodd@... writes:

<< Anyone else have any other stories of "wrong" answers being better than
the
lame "right" one? I'll collect them right up. I have a few to add, and we
can
keep adding to the collection!

Sandra >>

I must've deleted the first post. Oops. It was about workbooks, so....I
didn't bite, but I should've known better with you guys.

Oh, so many of those stories! Can't remember any specifically now because
it's been so long since we've used *any* workbook for that reason.

But, it always turned out great because we had long talks about objectiveness
vs subjectiveness (well, not using those terms) or how silly multiple choice
is, because it limits imagination so much, or laughed our butts off by our
answers, and trying to make them even goofier, or even more off base than the
"answer" and trying out absolutely tortured ways to make "our answer" make
sense, somehow, anyhow. That made for some very funny stories that we would each
add to and take in a different direction, until we were rolling on the floor
laughing! Oh, so fun!! Maybe I don't hate workbooks after all, lol.

~Aimee

Olga

You reminded me of a funny story along the same lines. My son loves
to play act, use action figures, etc. He does this pretty much all
the time and we discovered he always had to be the main character,
Christopher Robin on Pooh; Harry in Harry Potter, Billy Blazes in
REscue Heros, even Anthony on the Wiggles because he does the most
singing. It is a running joke around here. Anyway, we are not too
religious over here and one night we were watching a cartoon of Ben
Hur. Somewhere close to the end I said, "So who are you, Ben Hur?"
and he says "No, I am Jesus." I thought it was hysterical, I am not
certain the church may agree<G>. But all that innocence just showed
through. Well, we want them to reach for the stars. You can't reach
much further than that..LOL!

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> This is a little different, but is an example of right/wrong answer.
>
> I was sitting in on a Sunday School class a number of years ago.
The topic
> was love. The teacher talked about Jesus loves you and asked the
kids who
> else loves you? Kids answered mom, grandpa, my teacher, etc. Then
the
> teacher said that Jesus wants you to love your enemies. One very
excited
> kid waved his hand in the air and then said he loves the devil.
>
> The teacher freaked out and said no, you shouldn't love the devil,
then
> changed the subject. I could see the kid was crushed and couldn't
> understand why he was "wrong". I thought how very right he was.
Who else
> would be the ultimate enemy of Jesus but the devil? I felt the
teacher
> missed a great opportunity for real thinking and discussion, but I
suppose
> that wasn't the point of the Sunday school class.
>
> We only visited that church a few times, and I've never seen that
teacher or
> kid since.
>
> Mary Ellen

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/4/03 9:53:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
elfmama@... writes:

<< If the fruit was a plum, then it went with the grapes, but what if
they were green grapes, not purple grapes? Then the plum couldn't go
with the green grapes, and the plum couldn't go with the duck. So
maybe it wasn't a plum. Maybe it was a peach or a necterine, and it
was yellow/orange, it didn't go with the grapes, it would go wiht the
duck. But, we had been looking at ducks a week ago, and he didn't see
any yellow dunks, the only yellow duck he had seen was his rubber
ducky, and the picture looked like a real duck, not a plastic one. So
he decided that the fruit wasn't part of the awnser, it was the
grapes and the duck. I was still stumped and asked him if he would
tell me how he figured it out. This is his reasoning. His favorite
grapes are green, but the steam is brown, so the grapes are green and
brown, The ducks we saw at the park had green heads and brown bodys
(mallard ducks, I think) so they both were green and brown.

I was speachless. I am so glad I took a deep breath and let him do it
his way.

Rebecca >>

YES!! That is awesome, I love it. Subjective vs objective again, and guess
what I realized? Objectivity is a total myth. Everything is subjective. (
someone famous already said that, no?)

Guess I didn't miss it after all, I'm just bouncing around....

~Aimee

[email protected]

<< Then
the
> teacher said that Jesus wants you to love your enemies. One very
excited
> kid waved his hand in the air and then said he loves the devil.
>
> The teacher freaked out and said no, you shouldn't love the devil,
then
> changed the subject. >>

How in the heck could the teacher have missed that? Because she already HAD
the answer, and that one was "wrong".

Yet this kid *got* one of the major lessons of Jesus' teachings, which as I
remember was "love your enemies, it's easy to love your friends."

Kids don't need Sunday School, adults need kid lessons.

Sheesh!

~Aimee

Pamela Sorooshian

"There are 72 students in a school and 6 classes. How many students are
in each class?"

Rosie says - "There could be any number from zero to 72 in a class."

The answer is 12.

-pam


On Wednesday, June 4, 2003, at 03:24 PM, AimeeL73@... wrote:

>
> << Anyone else have any other stories of "wrong" answers being better
> than
> the
> lame "right" one? I'll collect them right up. I have a few to add,
> and we
> can
> keep adding to the collection!
>
> Sandra >>

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/03 2:30:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
pamsoroosh@... writes:

>
> "There are 72 students in a school and 6 classes. How many students are
> in each class?"
>
> Rosie says - "There could be any number from zero to 72 in a class."
>
> The answer is 12.
>

I love Rosie's answer better. I automatically thought the same thing and
would not have drawn the conclusion to divide the students equally since the
question didn't qualify itself with such for a correct answer to be gotten.

Go Rosie!!!

Rhonda - proud to think outside the box


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Stacey Bowen's New Email Account

What a wonderful story!!! How cool to actually experience the processing,
and hear Jaiden's reasoning.

...now you reminded me of an "A ha!" moment I had, right before pulling my
youngest out of ps kindergarten.

I went into school to pick him up at lunch time. The teacher was walking the
class down the hall...and hollered to me to stay until everyone was picked up,
because she had something important to talk to me about. She was very
serious. Once everyone had left, my son sat on the bench looking truly worried
at what she was about to tell me.

She informed me that math must just not be his thing. She and her assistant
had been trying to get a simple concept across to him, and he just wasn't getting
it. She said she had asked him to count backward from 5. He would look at her
a little confused, not say anything, and then start with "100..." She would stop
and tell him, "NO...you have to start with 5"....and he would say he didn't know
how to do it. This process was repeated several times before it was time to go...
and she said he only actually got it after the assistant did it FOR him. (No one had
provided him with any demonstration of what they wanted, and they had
not counted backward in class before).

I told her I didn't know what the problem was, because he counts backward all
the time at home, blasting off rocket ships, running races, etc.

When we got home, I asked him at dinner if he could count backward from 5.
He said...(very emphatically) "I KNOW how to do it NOW, Miss Anna showed
me....5 4 3 2 1.....but that doesn't make any sense!!"

I asked him, "What does make sense?" And he said "100...." and I interrupted,
just like his teacher, to tell him that he had forgotten to start with 5. He was so angry,
he just did one of those growly things and left the room. I went and apologized, and
said, "O.K. tell me the rest." He said, "MOM....I have been trying to tell you people
all day!!! 100....paused, waiting for me to stop him, then VERY slowly....95....90....85....
80....75...." all the way down to zero. I wanted to cry. I felt so bad for not listening to
him the first time.

Of course this made complete sense, because for the past month in school, they
had been counting by 5's every day. So when she asked him to count backward from 5....
well, you get the picture.

When I explained to his teacher what had happened........she told me this clearly
indicated that we have an attention problem on our hands, that he wasn't listening
carefully to instructions. She spared not even one moment to consider the thought
process that was required for him to have come up with the answer he did. It didn't
matter, it wasn't the pre-determined answer, it didn't fit anywhere on her chart.

I am still conditioning myself to take lots of "deep breaths," because when I STOP
talking, that is when he usually starts discovering and processing.

I watched him yesterday staring out the windows in his bedroom. I thought he
was enjoying the woods, or watching a squirrel. A little later he came out to me and
said, "hey...did you know that 24 has 8 threes in it...did you know that 24 has 4 sixes in it...
did you know that 24 has 2 twelves in it....... He brought me into his room and pointed out
the windows. Actually, he was pointing AT the windows. He had been studying the panes,
and grouping them into equal sets.

We were at dinner with my in-laws last weekend, and he said..."Did you ever notice that with
odd numbers, there is a middle one?" My mil gave him, and then me, an odd look. He pointed
to his middle finger, and said...look 2 on this side, 2 on this side, and one in the middle. Then
he did it with three, and then told me to hold up my hands so he could show 7 and 9. My mil
later told me that she was just surprised that he even knew what an odd number was.

I can only imagine what keeping him in a "school" atmosphere would have done to him. By the
end of kindergarten he would have been convinced that math was not his thing. And maybe it
won't be later...but, goodness, don't squelch it now!! Maybe the teacher was right, "school" math
wasn't his thing. Not enough windows?

Stacey

----- Original Message -----
From: phred
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 12:51 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] kids and workbooks


I just wanted to share this, please excuse the length

Yesterday Jaiden was playing with some pre-school workbooks that my
mom had gotten for him. We were sitting on the couch and he was
having me read the directions of the pages he couldn't figure out on
his own. We came to a page that had three sections with three
unrealated objects, you were supossed to figure out wich two were the
same color and then color them.

Jaiden was kinda stuck on one that had a piece of fruit(looked like a
plum to me), a bunch of grapes, and a duck. I asked him if he needed
some help, he then explained to me that he didn't need help, but that
the workbook people had messed up. There were to many awnsers to that
question.

I was stumped, to me the plum and the grapes were the awnser and I
couldn't figure out for the life of me what he was talking about.
Part of me was getting frusterated with jaiden, but I took a deep
breath and asked him is he would tell me what it was that he was
seeing because I didn't see what he was seeing. This is what he
explained to me.

If the fruit was a plum, then it went with the grapes, but what if
they were green grapes, not purple grapes? Then the plum couldn't go
with the green grapes, and the plum couldn't go with the duck. So
maybe it wasn't a plum. Maybe it was a peach or a necterine, and it
was yellow/orange, it didn't go with the grapes, it would go wiht the
duck. But, we had been looking at ducks a week ago, and he didn't see
any yellow dunks, the only yellow duck he had seen was his rubber
ducky, and the picture looked like a real duck, not a plastic one. So
he decided that the fruit wasn't part of the awnser, it was the
grapes and the duck. I was still stumped and asked him if he would
tell me how he figured it out. This is his reasoning. His favorite
grapes are green, but the steam is brown, so the grapes are green and
brown, The ducks we saw at the park had green heads and brown bodys
(mallard ducks, I think) so they both were green and brown.

I was speachless. I am so glad I took a deep breath and let him do it
his way.

Rebecca


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "Stacey Bowen's New Email Account" <staceybowen@...>

<<Maybe the teacher was right, "school" math wasn't his thing. Not enough
windows?>>

Great story Stacey. Thanks for sharing. I'm glad your son is out and home
and happy. I would have had to smack the teacher!!! LOL


Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/5/2003 12:34:22 PM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
> I watched him yesterday staring out the windows in his bedroom. I thought
> he
> was enjoying the woods, or watching a squirrel. A little later he came out
> to me and
> said, "hey...did you know that 24 has 8 threes in it...did you know that 24
> has 4 sixes in it...
> did you know that 24 has 2 twelves in it....... He brought me into his
> room and pointed out
> the windows. Actually, he was pointing AT the windows. He had been
> studying the panes,
> and grouping them into equal sets.

WOW!! That is really awesome.
So many good unschooling stories floating around here today. I love this one.

Ren


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]