Gifted and special needs unschooling. ???
Betjeman and Barton Tea Merchants
I have a friend who has 3 kids - the oldest is 'gifted' (Katherine) , her middle girl has learning difficulties (Carolyn) and the youngest is essentially unknown (she's 3).
My friend, Tina would love to know if anyone has experience unschooling kids with such different needs.
Tina is IMO sort of anti-homeschooling and she really doesn't 'get' unschooling. I'd like to open her eyes a bit to the wonders of unschooling and how it can / does work for all children. I however, only have one child and very little unschooling experience so I'm hoping you all can give me some input.
Here are some of her comments:
"Honestly, I don't think I could ever try to teach Carolyn at home, because we *butt heads* too much over her school work now.
She has some learning difficulties, and the school is much better able to handle her needs that I would ever be.
In her case I would have to spend all my time and energy helping her, that I feel it wouldn't be fair to my other 2.
Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her *grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and doing.
I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such vast learning differences and how do they make it work."
Thanks
Karen (in CT)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My friend, Tina would love to know if anyone has experience unschooling kids with such different needs.
Tina is IMO sort of anti-homeschooling and she really doesn't 'get' unschooling. I'd like to open her eyes a bit to the wonders of unschooling and how it can / does work for all children. I however, only have one child and very little unschooling experience so I'm hoping you all can give me some input.
Here are some of her comments:
"Honestly, I don't think I could ever try to teach Carolyn at home, because we *butt heads* too much over her school work now.
She has some learning difficulties, and the school is much better able to handle her needs that I would ever be.
In her case I would have to spend all my time and energy helping her, that I feel it wouldn't be fair to my other 2.
Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her *grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and doing.
I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such vast learning differences and how do they make it work."
Thanks
Karen (in CT)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have A Nice Day!
My friend, Tina would love to know if anyone has experience unschooling kids with such different needs.<<<<
to be honest, I think *all* kids have different needs. When you unschool, their needs just naturally get met because you work at it together in a cooperative way.
She worries about getting along with one of her kids, but how does she get along outside of school? And if the child does not have to be fit into a particular "box", she might *not* have so many learning problems.
And there is nothing stopping the "gifted" child from continuing to learn whatever she is interested as in depth as she likes.
Sorry this is kinda short...I'm trying to get ready for a camping trip, but I've got 3 kids with different needs at different ages, and we do ok here :o).
Kristen
to be honest, I think *all* kids have different needs. When you unschool, their needs just naturally get met because you work at it together in a cooperative way.
She worries about getting along with one of her kids, but how does she get along outside of school? And if the child does not have to be fit into a particular "box", she might *not* have so many learning problems.
And there is nothing stopping the "gifted" child from continuing to learn whatever she is interested as in depth as she likes.
Sorry this is kinda short...I'm trying to get ready for a camping trip, but I've got 3 kids with different needs at different ages, and we do ok here :o).
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Betjeman and Barton Tea Merchants
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 30, 2003 9:20 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gifted and special needs unschooling. ???
I have a friend who has 3 kids - the oldest is 'gifted' (Katherine) , her middle girl has learning difficulties (Carolyn) and the youngest is essentially unknown (she's 3).
My friend, Tina would love to know if anyone has experience unschooling kids with such different needs.
Tina is IMO sort of anti-homeschooling and she really doesn't 'get' unschooling. I'd like to open her eyes a bit to the wonders of unschooling and how it can / does work for all children. I however, only have one child and very little unschooling experience so I'm hoping you all can give me some input.
Here are some of her comments:
"Honestly, I don't think I could ever try to teach Carolyn at home, because we *butt heads* too much over her school work now.
She has some learning difficulties, and the school is much better able to handle her needs that I would ever be.
In her case I would have to spend all my time and energy helping her, that I feel it wouldn't be fair to my other 2.
Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her *grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and doing.
I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such vast learning differences and how do they make it work."
Thanks
Karen (in CT)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/2003 9:18:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
karen@... writes:
.>>>>>>> Here are some of her comments:
That was my worry also. I was so concerned with doing what the teacher said
and panicking over grades. It was crazy.
In September of this year after Deschooling (again) I took him to sylvan
hoping to have that as use for his end of year evaluation. His word comprehension
was well over grade 6 students according to the standards listed on the test
results. Just from Deschooling.
He was reading Dick and Jane books in yr. 3 of school when I took him out.
Now year 5 (for the purpose of gauging) he reads Novels and fully understands
what is read. I never tell him to read he does it on his own. That in itself
was worth Unschooling to me. I had the pleasure of seeing him begin to love
reading.
All from a child the school said was LD and stuffed in the resource room and
given stickers, candy bars and toys to get him to read.
She is quick to pick things up and has taken several college classes. She is
still in HS. She has been very curious about Homeschooling/Unschooling and asks
questions when we talk.
She is failing her Algebra 2/Trig class and is going to retake it in college.
She had enough credits to graduate at the beginning of the second half.
Problem is she knows how to do it she has just has had enough of certain
teachers.
She told me that she wished she could choose her direction rather than being
forced and plans to Home/Unschool her own kids (when she has them). However
she wishes she could but would never tell my sister that. Sad....
I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure in
school and they too would benefit from being at home.
Her second oldest has a very high IQ was failing this year because he didn't
want the other kids to think he was a geek. The school system put him in the
ALT school for three months to punish him. (wonder why, did his score bring up
the schools score. maybe, maybe not?)
So tell your friend to consider it she may find that it actually lesson the
family's stress.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
karen@... writes:
.>>>>>>> Here are some of her comments:
>That ones easy, there is no school work.
> "Honestly, I don't think I could ever try to teach Carolyn at home, because
> we *butt heads* too much over her school work now.>>>>>>>
That was my worry also. I was so concerned with doing what the teacher said
and panicking over grades. It was crazy.
> >>>>>She has some learning difficulties, and the school is much better ableMy sons reading "tested" 1st grade second month on the Iowa test in grade 3.
> to handle her needs that I would ever be.>>>>>>>.
In September of this year after Deschooling (again) I took him to sylvan
hoping to have that as use for his end of year evaluation. His word comprehension
was well over grade 6 students according to the standards listed on the test
results. Just from Deschooling.
He was reading Dick and Jane books in yr. 3 of school when I took him out.
Now year 5 (for the purpose of gauging) he reads Novels and fully understands
what is read. I never tell him to read he does it on his own. That in itself
was worth Unschooling to me. I had the pleasure of seeing him begin to love
reading.
All from a child the school said was LD and stuffed in the resource room and
given stickers, candy bars and toys to get him to read.
> In her case I would have to spend all my time and energy helping her, thatThis reminds me of a conversation I had with my sisters daughter last night.
> I feel it wouldn't be fair to my other 2.
>
> Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at
> school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her
> *grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and
> doing.
>
> I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such
> vast learning differences and how do they make it work."Thanks Karen (in CT)
She is quick to pick things up and has taken several college classes. She is
still in HS. She has been very curious about Homeschooling/Unschooling and asks
questions when we talk.
She is failing her Algebra 2/Trig class and is going to retake it in college.
She had enough credits to graduate at the beginning of the second half.
Problem is she knows how to do it she has just has had enough of certain
teachers.
She told me that she wished she could choose her direction rather than being
forced and plans to Home/Unschool her own kids (when she has them). However
she wishes she could but would never tell my sister that. Sad....
I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure in
school and they too would benefit from being at home.
Her second oldest has a very high IQ was failing this year because he didn't
want the other kids to think he was a geek. The school system put him in the
ALT school for three months to punish him. (wonder why, did his score bring up
the schools score. maybe, maybe not?)
So tell your friend to consider it she may find that it actually lesson the
family's stress.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/03 7:18:37 PM, karen@... writes:
<< I have a friend who has 3 kids - the oldest is 'gifted' (Katherine) , her
middle girl has learning difficulties (Carolyn) and the youngest is
essentially unknown (she's 3). >>
Interesting.
I knew my kids really well by the time they were three.
Where has this unknown child been living!?
<<Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at
school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her
*grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and
doing. >>
If school is so great for her, why is the mom interested in homeschooling at
all?
<<I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such
vast learning differences and how do they make it work.>>
Tell her with unschooling it doesn't matter one whit who's "ahead" or
"behind" or in what order things are discovered.
Here's some stuff for her to read
http://sandradodd.com/specialunschooling
but she doesn't sound much like she wants to homeschool. Explaining
unschooling to someone who thinks school is peachy is like trying to have an AA
meeting during a drinking contest at a downtown biker bar. No sense in it.
Sandra
<< I have a friend who has 3 kids - the oldest is 'gifted' (Katherine) , her
middle girl has learning difficulties (Carolyn) and the youngest is
essentially unknown (she's 3). >>
Interesting.
I knew my kids really well by the time they were three.
Where has this unknown child been living!?
<<Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at
school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her
*grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and
doing. >>
If school is so great for her, why is the mom interested in homeschooling at
all?
<<I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such
vast learning differences and how do they make it work.>>
Tell her with unschooling it doesn't matter one whit who's "ahead" or
"behind" or in what order things are discovered.
Here's some stuff for her to read
http://sandradodd.com/specialunschooling
but she doesn't sound much like she wants to homeschool. Explaining
unschooling to someone who thinks school is peachy is like trying to have an AA
meeting during a drinking contest at a downtown biker bar. No sense in it.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/03 8:18:29 PM, HMSL2@... writes:
<< I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure
in
school and they too would benefit from being at home. >>
Very often, they're gifted in one or two fields, maybe three, and are nothing
special (or worse, a bit "slow," since we're talking measurements and
comparisons) in two or four other intelligences.
Schools worship verbal and mathematical skills, and practically punish all
others (except you can have music or sports as dessert if you finish all the
history and science on your plate).
Gardner's intelligences:
Linguistic
Logical-Mathematical
Bodily-kinesthetic
Spatial
Musical
Interpersonal
Intrapersonal
Nature-intelligence and a kind of spiritual awareness are considered
legitimate additions to the list by many.
If she has a child gifted in all of them, unschooling would be PERFECT!
(Then again, if she has a child gifted in any combination of ways,
unschooling would be perfect, if the mom really cares to learn about learning instead of
continuing to worship school-worship.)
-=-So tell your friend to consider it she may find that it actually lesson
the
family's stress.-=-
She could eliminate a TON of stress by rolling back her labelling as much as
possible and doing away with schoolwork.
Sandra
<< I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure
in
school and they too would benefit from being at home. >>
Very often, they're gifted in one or two fields, maybe three, and are nothing
special (or worse, a bit "slow," since we're talking measurements and
comparisons) in two or four other intelligences.
Schools worship verbal and mathematical skills, and practically punish all
others (except you can have music or sports as dessert if you finish all the
history and science on your plate).
Gardner's intelligences:
Linguistic
Logical-Mathematical
Bodily-kinesthetic
Spatial
Musical
Interpersonal
Intrapersonal
Nature-intelligence and a kind of spiritual awareness are considered
legitimate additions to the list by many.
If she has a child gifted in all of them, unschooling would be PERFECT!
(Then again, if she has a child gifted in any combination of ways,
unschooling would be perfect, if the mom really cares to learn about learning instead of
continuing to worship school-worship.)
-=-So tell your friend to consider it she may find that it actually lesson
the
family's stress.-=-
She could eliminate a TON of stress by rolling back her labelling as much as
possible and doing away with schoolwork.
Sandra
Have A Nice Day!
Nature-intelligence and a kind of spiritual awareness are considered
legitimate additions to the list by many.<<<<<
I don't really know what that means, but I would guess that this would be me.
I have a way with animals and I have always felt spiritually in tune with nature and the universe so to speak.
I've always thought of it as a gift. I'll have to look into this more.
Got any links?
thanks!
Kristen, who is stuck staying up late out of habit and has to leave in the morning to go camping with the girl scouts!!!
legitimate additions to the list by many.<<<<<
I don't really know what that means, but I would guess that this would be me.
I have a way with animals and I have always felt spiritually in tune with nature and the universe so to speak.
I've always thought of it as a gift. I'll have to look into this more.
Got any links?
thanks!
Kristen, who is stuck staying up late out of habit and has to leave in the morning to go camping with the girl scouts!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gifted and special needs unschooling. ???
In a message dated 5/30/03 8:18:29 PM, HMSL2@... writes:
<< I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure
in
school and they too would benefit from being at home. >>
Very often, they're gifted in one or two fields, maybe three, and are nothing
special (or worse, a bit "slow," since we're talking measurements and
comparisons) in two or four other intelligences.
Schools worship verbal and mathematical skills, and practically punish all
others (except you can have music or sports as dessert if you finish all the
history and science on your plate).
Gardner's intelligences:
Linguistic
Logical-Mathematical
Bodily-kinesthetic
Spatial
Musical
Interpersonal
Intrapersonal
Nature-intelligence and a kind of spiritual awareness are considered
legitimate additions to the list by many.
If she has a child gifted in all of them, unschooling would be PERFECT!
(Then again, if she has a child gifted in any combination of ways,
unschooling would be perfect, if the mom really cares to learn about learning instead of
continuing to worship school-worship.)
-=-So tell your friend to consider it she may find that it actually lesson
the
family's stress.-=-
She could eliminate a TON of stress by rolling back her labelling as much as
possible and doing away with schoolwork.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have A Nice Day!
Ha!
Never mind, I googled and got more info.
It seems my strengths are interpersonal (which to me would include interpreting animal's social signals), and existentialist with a bit of others thrown in.
By the way, I just read the books "Julie of the Wolves" and "Julie's Wolfpack". Very good books!! I really enjoyed all that I learned about wolves. I'm not sure how much of it is accurate, but I'm guessing it is. I want to get more books out on wolves and their social structure. Its interesting to see my dog do a lot of the behaviors that are described in the books. I know dogs are descendants of wolves.
And I love my dog so much that I would just LOVE to see a pack of wolves interact the way its described in those books.
Anyway...naturalist would not be as much my cup of tea if it meant I had to classify things LOL. I don't classify anything for "fun". I just inhale it and enjoy it :o).
Kristen
Never mind, I googled and got more info.
It seems my strengths are interpersonal (which to me would include interpreting animal's social signals), and existentialist with a bit of others thrown in.
By the way, I just read the books "Julie of the Wolves" and "Julie's Wolfpack". Very good books!! I really enjoyed all that I learned about wolves. I'm not sure how much of it is accurate, but I'm guessing it is. I want to get more books out on wolves and their social structure. Its interesting to see my dog do a lot of the behaviors that are described in the books. I know dogs are descendants of wolves.
And I love my dog so much that I would just LOVE to see a pack of wolves interact the way its described in those books.
Anyway...naturalist would not be as much my cup of tea if it meant I had to classify things LOL. I don't classify anything for "fun". I just inhale it and enjoy it :o).
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Have A Nice Day!
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 1:34 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gifted and special needs unschooling. ???
Nature-intelligence and a kind of spiritual awareness are considered
legitimate additions to the list by many.<<<<<
I don't really know what that means, but I would guess that this would be me.
I have a way with animals and I have always felt spiritually in tune with nature and the universe so to speak.
I've always thought of it as a gift. I'll have to look into this more.
Got any links?
thanks!
Kristen, who is stuck staying up late out of habit and has to leave in the morning to go camping with the girl scouts!!!
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 12:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gifted and special needs unschooling. ???
In a message dated 5/30/03 8:18:29 PM, HMSL2@... writes:
<< I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure
in
school and they too would benefit from being at home. >>
Very often, they're gifted in one or two fields, maybe three, and are nothing
special (or worse, a bit "slow," since we're talking measurements and
comparisons) in two or four other intelligences.
Schools worship verbal and mathematical skills, and practically punish all
others (except you can have music or sports as dessert if you finish all the
history and science on your plate).
Gardner's intelligences:
Linguistic
Logical-Mathematical
Bodily-kinesthetic
Spatial
Musical
Interpersonal
Intrapersonal
Nature-intelligence and a kind of spiritual awareness are considered
legitimate additions to the list by many.
If she has a child gifted in all of them, unschooling would be PERFECT!
(Then again, if she has a child gifted in any combination of ways,
unschooling would be perfect, if the mom really cares to learn about learning instead of
continuing to worship school-worship.)
-=-So tell your friend to consider it she may find that it actually lesson
the
family's stress.-=-
She could eliminate a TON of stress by rolling back her labelling as much as
possible and doing away with schoolwork.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pamela Sorooshian
On Friday, May 30, 2003, at 10:34 PM, Have A Nice Day! wrote:
Well - we already setup at the camp (which is an in-town camping area).
We had to go to another event tonight and couldn't get back in, so some
of us are sleeping at my house and have to be back at camp at 7 am.
So - I should go to bed.
-pam
> Kristen, who is stuck staying up late out of habit and has to leave inHey - me too.
> the morning to go camping with the girl scouts!!!
Well - we already setup at the camp (which is an in-town camping area).
We had to go to another event tonight and couldn't get back in, so some
of us are sleeping at my house and have to be back at camp at 7 am.
So - I should go to bed.
-pam
Betjeman and Barton Tea Merchants
Thank you all for your replies!
Sandra - she thinks her 3 year old will fall somewhere in between her other 2 girls when I said "unknown" I meant that Tina hasn't 'labeled' her yet.
Tina is basically anti-homeschooling - she's asking questions of me in theory to learn more, however I suspect she'd love to 'talk' me out of it. So far I've been able to answer all of her questions. This one of course had me a bit stumped.
I don't think she'll ever 'convert' but I think it would be nice if she could move from anti-homeschooling to just accepting that it exists and that it works well for a lot of people.
Karen
Sandra - she thinks her 3 year old will fall somewhere in between her other 2 girls when I said "unknown" I meant that Tina hasn't 'labeled' her yet.
Tina is basically anti-homeschooling - she's asking questions of me in theory to learn more, however I suspect she'd love to 'talk' me out of it. So far I've been able to answer all of her questions. This one of course had me a bit stumped.
I don't think she'll ever 'convert' but I think it would be nice if she could move from anti-homeschooling to just accepting that it exists and that it works well for a lot of people.
Karen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 12:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Gifted and special needs unschooling. ???
In a message dated 5/30/03 7:18:37 PM, karen@... writes:
<< I have a friend who has 3 kids - the oldest is 'gifted' (Katherine) , her
middle girl has learning difficulties (Carolyn) and the youngest is
essentially unknown (she's 3). >>
Interesting.
I knew my kids really well by the time they were three.
Where has this unknown child been living!?
<<Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning so much at
school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff that is beyond her
*grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed that she is learning and
doing. >>
If school is so great for her, why is the mom interested in homeschooling at
all?
<<I'm just curious if parents have come across having 2 children with such
vast learning differences and how do they make it work.>>
Tell her with unschooling it doesn't matter one whit who's "ahead" or
"behind" or in what order things are discovered.
Here's some stuff for her to read
http://sandradodd.com/specialunschooling
but she doesn't sound much like she wants to homeschool. Explaining
unschooling to someone who thinks school is peachy is like trying to have an AA
meeting during a drinking contest at a downtown biker bar. No sense in it.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/30/2003 10:19:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
who go through this everyday...(the LD stuff). We are fighting to be *allowed*
to homeschool them next year, and I KNOW they are so beyond what the tests are
saying their level is.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> He was reading Dick and Jane books in yr. 3 of school when I took him out.This is very encouraging for me. I have 2 foster sons in school right now
>
> Now year 5 (for the purpose of gauging) he reads Novels and fully
> understands
> what is read. I never tell him to read he does it on his own. That in
> itself
> was worth Unschooling to me. I had the pleasure of seeing him begin to love
>
> reading.
> All from a child the school said was LD and stuffed in the resource room and
>
> given stickers, candy bars and toys to get him to read.
>
who go through this everyday...(the LD stuff). We are fighting to be *allowed*
to homeschool them next year, and I KNOW they are so beyond what the tests are
saying their level is.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma2kids
>> "Honestly, I don't think I could ever try to teach Carolyn athome, because we *butt heads* too much over her school work now. She
has some learning difficulties, and the school is much better able to
handle her needs that I would ever be.>>
Conor and I don't butt heads over school work because we don't do
school work. We live and learn and explore and experience. He was
labelled quite a bit while he was still in school. Learning disabled
was the big all encompassing one. I've since found it to mean that he
is just on a different schedule from the rest. That's okay. Time and
again I've seen him learn all those things the schools were so
concerned about. He learns when he's ready and without all the
pressure and angst. He's bright and contemplative and aware.
>> Also, what about kids who are *gifted*? Katherine is learning somuch at school, and in her Enrichment class. She is learning stuff
that is beyond her *grade level* in this class. Stuff that I'm amazed
that she is learning and doing. >>
We were just visiting at a friend's house in Boulder, CO where we
used to live. This friend is a college professor and very big into a
*proper* education. Her 8th grade son had just completed a paper on
Edgar Allan Poe and various other styles of poetry. He did a bio,
talked about styles and language and wrote poetry of his own. (Red
marks and comments all over it, broke my heart.) My friend was very
surprised when I told her that Poe was currently my Casey's (9yo)
favorite poet.
Casey discovered "The Raven" while watching The Simpson's once and
has delved into anthologies of Poe's poetry since that time. We've
also read Poe's bio and discussed some of the conditions and language
differences of those times and circumstances in Poe's life that
caused him to write such dark material. We've read and re-read the
poetry for meaning, style and language. We've talked about other
styles of poetry and how they compare. Casey's written her own poetry
and once created a hard bound book of her poems which she donated to
the library. (I'm not sure what they did with it. <g>)
So...what grade level would that be exactly? Sounds like what the 8th
grader was doing, but Casey would only be in 3rd grade of she were in
school. I didn't create any of that "curriculum" for her, I just
followed her lead.
Kids who are eager to learn will learn. I've got one who gobbles
information at an amazing pace and one who prefers a slower, more
contemplative approach. Both style are just fine and both kids are
thriving with unschooling.
Life is good.
~Mary
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/31/2003 7:41:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
karen@... writes:
I have a friend like this. She also was anti-Homeschool. Its been three
years.
Her children are not going back to school in September. She finally came
around to at least Homeschooling. Unschooling is next....
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
karen@... writes:
>Karen,
> Tina is basically anti-homeschooling - she's asking questions of me in
> theory to learn more, however I suspect she'd love to 'talk' me out of it. So far
> I've been able to answer all of her questions. This one of course had me a
> bit stumped.
>
> I don't think she'll ever 'convert' but I think it would be nice if she
> could move from anti-homeschooling to just accepting that it exists and that it
> works well for a lot of people.
>
> Karen
> ----- Original
I have a friend like this. She also was anti-Homeschool. Its been three
years.
Her children are not going back to school in September. She finally came
around to at least Homeschooling. Unschooling is next....
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Robin Clevenger
> From: "zenmomma2kids" <zenmomma@...>This is so true. And the nice thing about unschooling in general, whether
> Kids who are eager to learn will learn. I've got one who gobbles
> information at an amazing pace and one who prefers a slower, more
> contemplative approach. Both style are just fine and both kids are
> thriving with unschooling.
it's with kids who would be labeled something-or-other or kids who would be
labeled "normal" is that you basically give them the gift of time to learn
at their own pace. Even within one child, they might gobble up some things,
and take other things slower. Or gobble up things for awhile and then lay
off.
I notice in observing my kids that their interest in things tends to go in
spurts. And, interestingly enough, it's when they're doing "nothing" in a
given "subject" that the real progression happens. For instance, my son will
be really interested in manipulating numbers for awhile, and ask me tons of
questions about numbers, write down problems and figure them out, etc. Then
he'll go into a period where he does "nothing" visible with numbers at all.
By the next time I hear him talking about numbers, he can do some more
amazing manipulations than he could do before. The last time this happened,
he could suddenly understand fractions and what they represented. In a
schooling model, these times of doing "nothing" are to be avoided at all
costs, yet I can see that for at least my child, *that* is when the true
learning is occurring, during those times when the concepts go internal in
his head and he can let them percolate there for awhile.
Also, I think kids look for different amounts of challenge at different
points, based on what their needs are at the moment (when they're given this
freedom to do so). Yesterday, my 3 year old grabbed my old college poetry
textbook and for an hour insisted that I read her Shelley and Longfellow and
Frost. Later, I heard her reciting some lines from the poems to herself.
Now, that could look "gifted" if I wanted to look at it that way. This
morning, she's playing "Jumpstart Preschool" on the computer, which involves
coloring in numbered squares. She's been able to use this particular program
for at least a year, so I could choose to look at it as something "beneath"
her level, or "behind" where she should be. Neither of those ways of looking
at her is especially helpful to where she's actually at. Some days she just
likes one thing, and some days another.
Blue Skies!
-Robin-
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/31/2003 8:21:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
CelticFrau@... writes:
Not that he wasn't reading what they felt was at level but rather what they
where doing to his happiness.
One day a boy took his lunch and the resource room teacher lectured him and
kept telling him he misplaced it. Then she marched him into the class room and
made the entire class look for his lunch. He was so humiliated.
Once back in her room he began to cry and wouldn't do his work so she began
to question him over and over as to what was wrong at home.
He felt obligated to tell her something so he said that his grandfather died
of agent orange on our dining room table. (He did die of agent orange but not
in my house and a neighbor had said the day before that she herd someone died
here years ago before we moved here)
She called the principal then she finally called me. I told her well you
wanted a story he gave you one (creative little fella). I also told her that he
is there to learn and that she is not to have any personal conversations with
him at all! Later that day when I picked him up his teacher confronted me
about his planner that I hadn't signed in a month. ( I had never seen this
planner) She said it was to be signed each night. I said Oh really? Well, why did it
take you a month to notice?
I made a comment about taking him out and the teacher said "You cant take him
out and run any time you want to" I said "WATCH ME." We walked out and never
went back. He did find his lunch, the boy had stepped on it and hung it on a
hanger on the coat rack.
It just goes on and on.... When I think about all that he went through I
cannot believe I didn't pull him sooner. : (
I think as far as the tests go you may be right.
My guess is that they are 2nd or 3rd graders are they? Did the school label
them yet? If not I wouldn't let them, I think some states give parents a hard
time if they are. Maybe that's what you are going though now, I dont know?
It takes a long time for that label to leave a kids head.
I do not see any of the LD issues they said he had anymore. At times I think
they mold what they are called. I did! I BS'ed my way through all those
tests and more often than not answered a question with what I thought they wanted
me to say so I could get out of there. I think if the child knows people think
there is an issue it changes a lot about them.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CelticFrau@... writes:
> This is very encouraging for me. I have 2 foster sons in school right nowThe LD stuff is what finally pushed me to look at other alternatives.
> who go through this everyday...(the LD stuff). We are fighting to be
> *allowed*
> to homeschool them next year, and I KNOW they are so beyond what the tests
> are
> saying their level is.
>
> Nancy
Not that he wasn't reading what they felt was at level but rather what they
where doing to his happiness.
One day a boy took his lunch and the resource room teacher lectured him and
kept telling him he misplaced it. Then she marched him into the class room and
made the entire class look for his lunch. He was so humiliated.
Once back in her room he began to cry and wouldn't do his work so she began
to question him over and over as to what was wrong at home.
He felt obligated to tell her something so he said that his grandfather died
of agent orange on our dining room table. (He did die of agent orange but not
in my house and a neighbor had said the day before that she herd someone died
here years ago before we moved here)
She called the principal then she finally called me. I told her well you
wanted a story he gave you one (creative little fella). I also told her that he
is there to learn and that she is not to have any personal conversations with
him at all! Later that day when I picked him up his teacher confronted me
about his planner that I hadn't signed in a month. ( I had never seen this
planner) She said it was to be signed each night. I said Oh really? Well, why did it
take you a month to notice?
I made a comment about taking him out and the teacher said "You cant take him
out and run any time you want to" I said "WATCH ME." We walked out and never
went back. He did find his lunch, the boy had stepped on it and hung it on a
hanger on the coat rack.
It just goes on and on.... When I think about all that he went through I
cannot believe I didn't pull him sooner. : (
I think as far as the tests go you may be right.
My guess is that they are 2nd or 3rd graders are they? Did the school label
them yet? If not I wouldn't let them, I think some states give parents a hard
time if they are. Maybe that's what you are going though now, I dont know?
It takes a long time for that label to leave a kids head.
I do not see any of the LD issues they said he had anymore. At times I think
they mold what they are called. I did! I BS'ed my way through all those
tests and more often than not answered a question with what I thought they wanted
me to say so I could get out of there. I think if the child knows people think
there is an issue it changes a lot about them.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill and Diane
I think that many children who are labeled "gifted" have WAY too much
pressure at home and may NOT be good candidates for home*schooling*
because there they can be pushed even harder either across the board or
in two or three "target areas." Some of these kids are "20% advanced"
therefore they need to be 20% or more ahead in their assigned curriculum
and complete 120% of a year per year.
:-) Diane
pressure at home and may NOT be good candidates for home*schooling*
because there they can be pushed even harder either across the board or
in two or three "target areas." Some of these kids are "20% advanced"
therefore they need to be 20% or more ahead in their assigned curriculum
and complete 120% of a year per year.
:-) Diane
><< I think children that are considered *gifted* have way too much pressure
>in school and they too would benefit from being at home. >>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/31/2003 4:34:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
one day he mentioned it to his special ed teacher (whom he had a very hard
time getting along with all year.) She called me THAT DAY and questioned me
about it. I told her that it seems all his bad behavior revolved around school.
Maybe if we eliminated school, he could have a happy, normal life, learn some
things, bond a little more with us. We were always so stressed out trying to
figure out how to deal with school problems too.
Suddenly, the bad notes stopped coming home (notes about him misbehaving), he
seemed a little happier, and low and behold, he got student of the month a
week later! Previously I got a phone call or note every friday telling how he
had disrupted the class, or not done his work, blah blah...
level, the 4th grader reads at a 1.6 grade level, and the 5th grader reads at a
3.0 grade level. None of them have much of a problem understanding math
concepts. I honestly believe the only thing giving them problems is all the
bookwork, the stretches of time sitting, the structure of it all.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> I made a comment about taking him out and the teacher said "You cant takeWe had been talking about homeschooling with our adopted son for a while, and
> him
> out and run any time you want to" I said "WATCH ME." We walked out and never
>
> went back. He did find his lunch, the boy had stepped on it and hung it on
> a
> hanger on the coat rack.
>
> It just goes on and on.... When I think about all that he went through I
> cannot believe I didn't pull him sooner. : (
one day he mentioned it to his special ed teacher (whom he had a very hard
time getting along with all year.) She called me THAT DAY and questioned me
about it. I told her that it seems all his bad behavior revolved around school.
Maybe if we eliminated school, he could have a happy, normal life, learn some
things, bond a little more with us. We were always so stressed out trying to
figure out how to deal with school problems too.
Suddenly, the bad notes stopped coming home (notes about him misbehaving), he
seemed a little happier, and low and behold, he got student of the month a
week later! Previously I got a phone call or note every friday telling how he
had disrupted the class, or not done his work, blah blah...
>They are leaving grades 3, 4, and 5. The 3rd grader reads at almost his
> I think as far as the tests go you may be right.
> My guess is that they are 2nd or 3rd graders are they? Did the school label
> them yet? If not I wouldn't let them, I think some states give parents a
> hard
> time if they are. Maybe that's what you are going though now, I dont know?
>
level, the 4th grader reads at a 1.6 grade level, and the 5th grader reads at a
3.0 grade level. None of them have much of a problem understanding math
concepts. I honestly believe the only thing giving them problems is all the
bookwork, the stretches of time sitting, the structure of it all.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/2003 7:40:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
CelticFrau@... writes:
year ago. The biggest thing that helped us was knowing where the low score was.
Is it reading out loud or to himself? What are the other scores and where do
they lay?
For instance, when he was tested and read out loud he scored at first grade
sixth month. He spent so much time trying to perfect the words as he read that
it slowed him down and stressed him out and he couldn't remember what he had
read.
When he read to himself he did much better something like third grade or
something like that. But like I said now he reads novels and loves them. Before
he wouldn't touch a book let alone even pick one up at the store.
I would tell the school that the child at 1.6 level has had the opportunity
for them to help him and they have not, its you turn to try.
If he hates reading out loud school is the wrong place to be. From what I
have seen and read the math usually runs with it. Dustin seemed ok until they
got into multiplication and division. Also Penmanship tends to be pretty bad.
Let us know what ends up happening. I am not sure what state you are in but
I believe it is your legal right to HS. Your State Education Dept. may be the
one to contact rather than the schools them selves. They dont know much about
HS'ing(at least here they dont)
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CelticFrau@... writes:
> They are leaving grades 3, 4, and 5. The 3rd grader reads at almost hisThat 1.6 was where the test at Sylvan learning said my son was at almost a
> level, the 4th grader reads at a 1.6 grade level, and the 5th grader reads
> at a
> 3.0 grade level. None of them have much of a problem understanding math
> concepts. I honestly believe the only thing giving them problems is all the
>
> bookwork, the stretches of time sitting, the structure of it all.
>
> Nancy
year ago. The biggest thing that helped us was knowing where the low score was.
Is it reading out loud or to himself? What are the other scores and where do
they lay?
For instance, when he was tested and read out loud he scored at first grade
sixth month. He spent so much time trying to perfect the words as he read that
it slowed him down and stressed him out and he couldn't remember what he had
read.
When he read to himself he did much better something like third grade or
something like that. But like I said now he reads novels and loves them. Before
he wouldn't touch a book let alone even pick one up at the store.
I would tell the school that the child at 1.6 level has had the opportunity
for them to help him and they have not, its you turn to try.
If he hates reading out loud school is the wrong place to be. From what I
have seen and read the math usually runs with it. Dustin seemed ok until they
got into multiplication and division. Also Penmanship tends to be pretty bad.
Let us know what ends up happening. I am not sure what state you are in but
I believe it is your legal right to HS. Your State Education Dept. may be the
one to contact rather than the schools them selves. They dont know much about
HS'ing(at least here they dont)
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
> In a message dated 6/1/2003 7:40:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,And you'll feel so much better in a year or so when you can say 'Level, what level? We just enjoy books.'
> CelticFrau@... writes:
>
> > They are leaving grades 3, 4, and 5. The 3rd grader reads at almost his
> > level, the 4th grader reads at a 1.6 grade level, and the 5th grader reads
> > at a
> > 3.0 grade level. None of them have much of a problem understanding math
> > concepts. I honestly believe the only thing giving them problems is all the
> >
> > bookwork, the stretches of time sitting, the structure of it all.
> >
> > Nancy
>
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/2003 10:53:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
allowed with the foster boys. We are hoping that the adoption will be far enough
along that we can talk the judge into letting us in the fall.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Let us know what ends up happening. I am not sure what state you are inWe're allowed (of course) do homeschool our adopted son. But we are not
> but
> I believe it is your legal right to HS. Your State Education Dept. may be
> the
> one to contact rather than the schools them selves. They dont know much
> about
> HS'ing(at least here they dont)
>
>
allowed with the foster boys. We are hoping that the adoption will be far enough
along that we can talk the judge into letting us in the fall.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/03 9:19:50 AM, shyrley.williams@... writes:
<< And you'll feel so much better in a year or so when you can say 'Level,
what level? We just enjoy books.' >>
Yep!
You could ease into it by saying "He reads at a kid-level," and then "He's
reading at a human level." <bwg>
Sandra
<< And you'll feel so much better in a year or so when you can say 'Level,
what level? We just enjoy books.' >>
Yep!
You could ease into it by saying "He reads at a kid-level," and then "He's
reading at a human level." <bwg>
Sandra
Barb Eaton
A lot of time State Boards aren't the best to go to either. I'd never
advice anyone in Ohio to go to the State Board for more that a copy of the
regulations here. Even then It can be found online. So many ways to get
info. ;-) Local Unschoolers/Homeschoolers are the best IMO.
Are there any hs groups in your area? How about NATHAN? I think that's
the name. Their online. There may be someone in your area too. I've heard of
the TAG list. Gifted and talented. Google should pull it up.
Barb E
"A goal is created three times. First as a mental picture.
Second, when written down to add clarity and dimension.
And third, when you take action towards its achievement."
- Gary Ryan Blair, ³The Goals Guy²
advice anyone in Ohio to go to the State Board for more that a copy of the
regulations here. Even then It can be found online. So many ways to get
info. ;-) Local Unschoolers/Homeschoolers are the best IMO.
Are there any hs groups in your area? How about NATHAN? I think that's
the name. Their online. There may be someone in your area too. I've heard of
the TAG list. Gifted and talented. Google should pull it up.
Barb E
"A goal is created three times. First as a mental picture.
Second, when written down to add clarity and dimension.
And third, when you take action towards its achievement."
- Gary Ryan Blair, ³The Goals Guy²
>
> Let us know what ends up happening. I am not sure what state you are in but
> I believe it is your legal right to HS. Your State Education Dept. may be the
> one to contact rather than the schools them selves. They dont know much about
> HS'ing(at least here they dont)
>
> Laura D
[email protected]
In a message dated 6/1/2003 11:47:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
CelticFrau@... writes:
Good luck with the process.
I was a foster, its great that you are trying to help them.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
CelticFrau@... writes:
>I wondered if that was the difference.
> We're allowed (of course) do homeschool our adopted son. But we are not
> allowed with the foster boys. We are hoping that the adoption will be far
> enough
> along that we can talk the judge into letting us in the fall.
>
> Nancy
Good luck with the process.
I was a foster, its great that you are trying to help them.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Olga
As a former teacher who knows how to perform the reading assesments I
have NEVER understood the importance of reading comprehension when
you read aloud. At what point in life do you read an entire passage,
out loud and have to comprehend it. Most often if you are doing
something out loud, it is a presentation of your own. I think
everyone gets a little nervous reading out loud trying not to screw
up the words.I would love to know the actual signifigance of this
score??
Olga :)
have NEVER understood the importance of reading comprehension when
you read aloud. At what point in life do you read an entire passage,
out loud and have to comprehend it. Most often if you are doing
something out loud, it is a presentation of your own. I think
everyone gets a little nervous reading out loud trying not to screw
up the words.I would love to know the actual signifigance of this
score??
Olga :)
>first grade
> For instance, when he was tested and read out loud he scored at
> sixth month. He spent so much time trying to perfect the words ashe read that
> it slowed him down and stressed him out and he couldn't rememberwhat he had
> read.grade or
> When he read to himself he did much better something like third
> something like that. But like I said now he reads novels and lovesthem. Before
> he wouldn't touch a book let alone even pick one up at the store.opportunity
>
> I would tell the school that the child at 1.6 level has had the
> for them to help him and they have not, its you turn to try.what I
> If he hates reading out loud school is the wrong place to be. From
> have seen and read the math usually runs with it.
> Laura D
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]