Olga

As we are moving more towards unschooling I need a little insight
into if the following is still in line with good unschooling
practices. When we first starting *officially* homeschooling, my son
decided he wanted to learn about Egypt as we had watched some shows
on it and he got interested. As we quickly moved to unschooling, I
bascially read him some books we got from the library, went to
related field trips and did related projects when they came up and if
he wanted to do them. There was no forcing or cajoling on my part, I
swear <g>! WE did a number of fun things that he did for as long as
he was interested and really has alot of fun. After a good bit of
time, he was playing a Scooby Doo PC game about Egypt and saw they
had another related to knights. He said he was "done learning about
Egypt" and wanted to learn about knights, i.e want the new game. I
told him, I wanted him to finsih this one at the higher levels before
we got a new one? (is that okay?). A new topic is fine with me, so I
have some books on order at the library and figure we will follow the
same routine. I was planning to let him go through the project book
with me and pick things that interest him, try to plan some field
trips if I can find any and just take things casually. Now, is this
still in line with unschooling?

Right now, I am having a problem with being sponatneous. You know,
it is raining what do we do with ourselves or where should we go
today. When we were studying Egypt, I had ideas on the back burner
so should we have a free moment and he showed interest we had
something cool and interesting to do. He learned alot of neat things
and really had fun doing the project we did. Anyway, I want to make
sure that I have things available for us to do during down time so is
this Okay?? Thanks you any input as we are still defining our path
here!

Olga :)

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/29/03 9:50:04 PM, britcontoo@... writes:

<< He said he was "done learning about

Egypt" and wanted to learn about knights, i.e want the new game. I

told him, I wanted him to finsih this one at the higher levels before

we got a new one? (is that okay?). >>

I wouldn't have pressed him to finish a game. That makes it work, and
assignment, no longer for fun.

I wouldn't let someone get by without a comment if he said "I'm done learning
about Egypt." I would say "You'll learn more about Egypt as long as you're
alive. Sometimes lots, sometimes nothing for a year, but the more you know the
more you'll know."

<< A new topic is fine with me, so I

have some books on order at the library and figure we will follow the

same routine. I was planning to let him go through the project book

with me and pick things that interest him, try to plan some field

trips if I can find any and just take things casually. Now, is this

still in line with unschooling?>>

It's unit studies.

Why have a routine?
Why a project book?
Why field trips?

By that I don't mean "why field trips," but why field trips about knighthood?
If he's interested and the interest isn't extinguished, he will continue to
learn about knighthood for the rest of his life? No rush to do it this month.


There's some great stuff online. There are coloring books by Dover and
Bellerophon. But if you get him one, please don't tell him you want him to color
it all before you get him another one.

I have three dozen coloring books I don't let ANYONE color in. We'll
photocopy pages if anyone wants to color. I've had most of them before I ever had
kids. Lots are Dover Clipart stuff (but coloring books, Dover Archive series).

Wander and ramble among all the things in the world. He will make
connections on his own. You don't have to tell him what is or isn't related to knights
or Egypt.

We have pop-up books about both subjects at our house. If he visited, I'd
put those out, but wouldn't say "Your mom says you're interested in knights.
Come here and I will show you all my books about knights and then we will go
into the garage where you can try on a chainmail coif, and then I'll show you a
video on heraldry and then..."

You can lay things out casually. You can rent a movie about knights and
castles without declaring it to be part of his unit.

<< When we were studying Egypt, I had ideas on the back burner

so should we have a free moment and he showed interest we had

something cool and interesting to do. >>

I think if you consider that you were studying Egypt but you are not studying
Egypt any longer, that you're a full giant step away from unschooling.

=Right now, I am having a problem with being sponatneous. You know,

it is raining what do we do with ourselves or where should we go

today.=

What's on TV? Does he know how to play rummy? Do you want to make cookie?
Does he need to blow bubbles in the bathtub? Has he played with magnets
lately? Do you have finger paints? Have you ever taken the thread out of the
sewing machine and let him make perforated designs on paper? He could trace
magazine photos, or follow lines on notebook paper, or make tickets and then put
perforations between the main part and the stub.

"Projects" don't have to be weeks or hours long. They can be five minutes
long.

Sandra

Olga

Sandra,

Thanks for your input.

> I wouldn't have pressed him to finish a game. That makes it work,
and
> assignment, no longer for fun.

Good point, I didn't see it that way. I think I was worried, he
would not complete them and look to buy more. But thinking back, he
does tend to go back to games so realistically he will finish it at
some point. He was getting to a harder level and getting a little
frustrated. I wanted to see him push himself past that point (with
help if need be) but maybe he just wasn't ready for it.

I wouldn't let someone get by without a comment if he said "I'm done
learning
> about Egypt." I would say "You'll learn more about Egypt as long
as you're
> alive. Sometimes lots, sometimes nothing for a year, but the more
you know the
> more you'll know."

In all honesty, I felt the same way when he said it. That statement
felt very *schooly* for me. In my head, we are not *done*, because if
something interesting comes up then we would pursue it. Obviously, I
have made it very black and white to him if he thinks we have to
*stop* Egypt to get a new game on knights. I have to work on that
one.

> I said: << A new topic is fine with me, so I
>
> have some books on order at the library and figure we will follow
the
>
> same routine. I was planning to let him go through the project
book
>
> with me and pick things that interest him, try to plan some field
>
> trips if I can find any and just take things casually. Now, is
this
>
> still in line with unschooling?>>
>
>Sandra said: It's unit studies.
>
> Why have a routine?
> Why a project book?
> Why field trips?
>
> By that I don't mean "why field trips," but why field trips about
knighthood?
> If he's interested and the interest isn't extinguished, he will
continue to
> learn about knighthood for the rest of his life? No rush to do it
this month.

I admit it is unit studies. I knew that, however, I think I was
trying to keep it as loose and interest oriented as possible assuming
that if he was happy and learning we were still using a child-led
learning approach. Sort of, you pick the topic and any activites and
go from there. So if I am understanding correctly, I have to find
that balance between making his interests available but with no
beginning and no end? So now when I bring home books on knights from
the library do I just leave them out for him to puruse or do I offer
them? One book has specific projects, do I show him and allow him to
choose if interested or scrap it all together? How do I now get him
to see Knights as just one thing in the mix and not our *lesson*?
>
> But if you get him one, please don't tell him you want him to
color
> it all before you get him another one.

LOL..he hates to color, that would never happen here <g>!!
>

Thanks for the ideas. I am definitely still caught in the schooling
world myself. I think I am having a hard time drawing the line
between exposing him to ideas and the world and lessons. For
example, with Egypt I offered to let him do heiroglyphics with
stampers which I thought he would enjoy because he hates writing. He
ended up coloring and drawing on his own for over an hour and he
HATES writing. I am worried without such ideas on the back burner,
we will not do these types of things which turned out to be fun and a
great learning experience. Learning about Egypt led us to so many
cool things. However, I think what I am understanding is that if I
hear about more cool Egypt projects I can still offer them and we can
still continue and at the same time talk and learn about about
knights and pirates and whatever. Now to implement...that is the
hard part!!

Olga :)

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/30/2003 1:16:27 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
britcontoo@... writes:

Now to implement...that is the > hard part!!

Change your mindset: That's the FUN part! <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/29/03 11:17:47 PM, britcontoo@... writes:

<< I admit it is unit studies. I knew that, however, I think I was

trying to keep it as loose and interest oriented as possible assuming

that if he was happy and learning we were still using a child-led

learning approach. Sort of, you pick the topic and any activites and

go from there. >>

But it's school-trained-child led. Aided and abetted by school-trained mom.

-=- Sort of, you pick the topic and any activites and

go from there. -=-

Go where?

It seems you see things as directional and not swirly. <g>

-=-So if I am understanding correctly, I have to find

that balance between making his interests available but with no

beginning and no end? -=-

You don't HAVE to.
Try to rid your vocabulary (spoken and thought) of those "have tos" as much
as you can.

Make the whole world available. The more he has easy, happy, unmeasured
access to a world of ideas and experiences, the more interests he will have!

-=-So now when I bring home books on knights from

the library do I just leave them out for him to puruse or do I offer

them? -=-

Doesn't he got to the library with you?

When I bring books home, I show them to people and leave them out a while.

-=-One book has specific projects, do I show him and allow him to

choose if interested or scrap it all together? -=-

"Allow him to choose" as opposed to what? Forbidding or preventing him from
choosing?

-=-How do I now get him

to see Knights as just one thing in the mix and not our *lesson*?-=-

You don't need to "get him to see" things.
He will see things without your management, scheduling and definition of what
is and isn't mix/lessons/learning/"stuff."

But YOU need to see things differently too!

-=- For

example, with Egypt I offered to let him do heiroglyphics with

stampers-=-

The language is really surprising to me. "I offered to let him..."
For credit? Did you do this with him, or was it an assignment of some sort?

-=- I am worried without such ideas on the back burner,

we will not do these types of things which turned out to be fun and a

great learning experience. -=-

It doesn't sound like it was something you did together, but maybe it's just
the way you worded it.

-=- However, I think what I am understanding is that if I

hear about more cool Egypt projects I can still offer them and we can

still continue and at the same time talk and learn about about

knights and pirates and whatever. -=-

Or Shakespeare or bugs or woodgrain or Herman's Hermits or compost or
Studbakers or cottonwoods or hinges or cherries or Frankenstein movies.

Broaden your field of vision! It will all tie back together into one model
of the universe if you let go of it and float.

<<Now to implement...that is the hard part!!>>

Get your hands off that implement!
When you hold chicks, do you hold them by the neck?
Put your hands in your pockets a while.

No, first go to these articles and get some implementation ideas. <g>

http://sandradodd.com/deschooling

http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html

<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/deschooling">Deschooling for Parents, by
Sandra Dodd</A>

<A HREF="http://www.home-ed-magazine.com/HEM/194/jaunschooling.html">HEM -
July-August 2002</A>


Sandra

Michele Evard

At 01:38 AM 5/30/2003 -0400, SandraDodd@... wrote:
>It seems you see things as directional and not swirly. <g>

i love the pictures that brings to mind! we're not learning in one
direction, we're swirling about in 3 dimensions, or maybe should i say 4? :-)

thanks, sandra!

michele

Julie Bogart

--- In [email protected],
SandraDodd@a... wrote:

>
> It's unit studies.
>
> Why have a routine?
> Why a project book?
> Why field trips?
>
> By that I don't mean "why field trips," but why field trips about
knighthood?
> If he's interested and the interest isn't extinguished, he will
continue to
> learn about knighthood for the rest of his life? No rush to do it
this month.

Great point. Loved your post Sandra.

i realized in the last six months that I had a firm hieracrhy of
learning in place. When a child showed interest in Egypt or
knights, I'd think: Hey! This is important and natural. Then he'd
want to watch Kung Pao: Enter the Dragon and I'd sort of glaze
over waiting for the next "real" interest to emerge. It's taken me
six months to change my thinking about learning—that learning
about knights is not superior to learning how to beat the next
level in Shrek on X box.

My job isn't to create lists of activites that tie together. And it isn't
to create activities at all. It's to be available. And right now my
daughter is asking me to come so I'd better go. :)

Julie

myfunny4

--- In [email protected], "Julie Bogart"
<julie@b...> wrote:
> My job isn't to create lists of activites that tie together. And it
isn't
> to create activities at all. It's to be available.

Yesterday morning, my ds-10 noticed that new electric can opener was
sitting on our kitchen counter. He opened a can of sauerkraut just
to try it out (we ate the sauerkraut at lunch with turkey sausage),
and wondered aloud how it worked inside. I remarked that daddy had
left the old can opener on his workbench in the basement, if R. would
like to tinker with it. <g> R. spent the morning carefully taking
part the entire can opener, examining how the gears worked, wondering
what different parts were, who designed the first can opener, etc.
All I did was offer him an old can opener.

Debbie

Mary

From: "Olga" <britcontoo@...>

<<He said he was "done learning about Egypt" and wanted to learn about
knights, i.e want the new game. I
told him, I wanted him to finsih this one at the higher levels before we got
a new one? (is that okay?). >>



Well you said it right there. "He" was done learning about Egypt. So no,
wanting him to on when he was finished isn't my idea of unschooling. When
the kids want to do something, they do. But you have to be willing to say
okay when they want to stop. No matter how you feel it should be done. Here,
I also don't ask my kids if they want to do something that's educational. I
let them decide that. I'll say how about the park today or the museum,
(that's fun for them) or buy something I think they might like and show them
where I'm putting it. But I never suggest doing projects. Those are things,
if they are interested in that they come up with on their own. And projects
for them aren't a big interest.



<<Right now, I am having a problem with being sponatneous. You know, it is
raining what do we do with ourselves or where should we go today. >>


Don't feel like you have to do something or go somewhere every day. We do a
lot of just hanging out at home. The kids play. It's as easy as that. Don't
always look at educational things they need every day. They will get it but
it doesn't have to be something you always see in school terms. Just let
them play and you do what you do around the house. Watch tv, play games,
bake cookies, do puzzles. Just let the day happen without feeling like you
have to plan something for them to do.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/30/03 9:24:05 AM, julie@... writes:

<< My job isn't to create lists of activites that tie together. And it isn't

to create activities at all. It's to be available. >>

And to help make the world available and accessible and attractive.

One of the things that makes me cringe sometimes with families in which
they're saying unschooling isn't working is that one or both of the parents will be
entirely judgmental about LOTS of stuff. Half the music in the world is
"stupid," and movies are "babyish" and games are "too easy for you" and once half
the world is branded (subtly or not) as unworthy of exploration, those
children are living in a half-sized world.

Helping keep the world big is a good thing for parents to do.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/30/03 11:03:39 AM, mummy124@... writes:

<< Don't feel like you have to do something or go somewhere every day. We do a

lot of just hanging out at home. The kids play. It's as easy as that. Don't

always look at educational things they need every day. They will get it but

it doesn't have to be something you always see in school terms. Just let

them play and you do what you do around the house. Watch tv, play games,

bake cookies, do puzzles. Just let the day happen without feeling like you

have to plan something for them to do. >>

I agree with this, but some families get stuck and don't go out enough.
There should be a balance. Neither out every day nor home every day is optimal.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/30/03 8:35:46 AM, mevard@... writes:

<< i love the pictures that brings to mind! we're not learning in one
direction, we're swirling about in 3 dimensions, or maybe should i say 4?
:-) >>

Only four!?

<g>

Sandra

Mary

From: <SandraDodd@...>

<<I agree with this, but some families get stuck and don't go out enough.
There should be a balance. Neither out every day nor home every day is
optimal.>>


Yes of course. But what I seem to see around here with homeschooling
families is that they get stuck the other way. Feeling like they have to
find "something" to do outside the house almost every day. I think it's
starts with homeschoolers and that socialization word. They worry so that
they become travel agents on a daily basis. If the children choose to go out
every day and the parent does fine with that, then I would say that's great.
But I know sometimes when we've had a full week, my kids just really want to
stay home and hang out. Now of coure there's the backyard, sand box,
swingset, pool so it's not like they are hermits. But Joseph for one doesn't
like to be out and about too much. And I'm lucky that I can let him stay
home and take the 2 younger girls out and about with me. But I never feel
like I have to plan outtings on a regular basis. There are days that go by
and we just find tons of stuff here.

Mary B

[email protected]

Yesterday was a good day also.

We had gone to scholastic books warehouse sale and Dustin found a book 101
science experiments. He spent half the day and part of this am trying some
experiments out and ended up running with his own.
The effect of bug spray on weeds, Food coloring and color changes, Weights of
water, oil and food coloring, Vinegar and baking soda rockets and some other
mixtures.

He then broke out the glue gun and made a pen/junk holder out of blank CD's.
He is working on making book ends out of them also.
He also watched the Mummy Returns (5th time this week) and is now riding his
bike with some friends.
My DH has been in and out of the hospital with a couple bad teeth and has
required several IV's and lots of rest so I am thrilled the oldest has found some
things to do this week.


Laura D

In a message dated 5/30/2003 11:53:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Debbies4@... writes:

> Yesterday morning, my ds-10 noticed that new electric can opener was
> sitting on our kitchen counter. He opened a can of sauerkraut just
> to try it out (we ate the sauerkraut at lunch with turkey sausage),
> and wondered aloud how it worked inside. I remarked that daddy had
> left the old can opener on his workbench in the basement, if R. would
> like to tinker with it. <g> R. spent the morning carefully taking
> part the entire can opener, examining how the gears worked, wondering
> what different parts were, who designed the first can opener, etc.
> All I did was offer him an old can opener.
>
> Debbie



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