Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Compassion
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/03 8:32:52 PM, torywalk@... writes:
<< But I do wonder if there is something I should be doing
to help her see things from other people's perspectives. Maybe just
taking it incident by incident is all I can do. >>
Maybe when you can talk to her in advance about how to act so she doesn't
make people feel bad.
Example: We went to a wedding in a chapel which is a memorial to veterans.
I told Holly it would be a very bad place to make any war jokes.
Does she miss other emotional clues? Does she miss jokes, or not know when
someone's just sad or grumpy? If so, I have two thoughts. One, that she's
really young, and two, it might just be a lack of "interpersonal intelligence"
(in Gardner's terminology). If that's so, then she might just need more
briefings or advice on how to act in various situations until she comes to understand
more on her own.
I don't think many six year olds are very savvy about stressful situations,
though, and they DO have short attention spans, so even those who are
especially perceptive won't last an hour in one state of mind. Some might freak and
some might just shut down.
Compassion is probably a pretty mature emotion. Some things seem like parts
of compassion, like pity and fear and queasiness, but I think compassion is
higher and more philosophical than those things.
I wouldn't worry, just coach her not to make things worse, and try not to be
angry with her.
Sorry about your dad. Back surgery is always very scary. Keith had one at
18 years old.
Sandra
<< But I do wonder if there is something I should be doing
to help her see things from other people's perspectives. Maybe just
taking it incident by incident is all I can do. >>
Maybe when you can talk to her in advance about how to act so she doesn't
make people feel bad.
Example: We went to a wedding in a chapel which is a memorial to veterans.
I told Holly it would be a very bad place to make any war jokes.
Does she miss other emotional clues? Does she miss jokes, or not know when
someone's just sad or grumpy? If so, I have two thoughts. One, that she's
really young, and two, it might just be a lack of "interpersonal intelligence"
(in Gardner's terminology). If that's so, then she might just need more
briefings or advice on how to act in various situations until she comes to understand
more on her own.
I don't think many six year olds are very savvy about stressful situations,
though, and they DO have short attention spans, so even those who are
especially perceptive won't last an hour in one state of mind. Some might freak and
some might just shut down.
Compassion is probably a pretty mature emotion. Some things seem like parts
of compassion, like pity and fear and queasiness, but I think compassion is
higher and more philosophical than those things.
I wouldn't worry, just coach her not to make things worse, and try not to be
angry with her.
Sorry about your dad. Back surgery is always very scary. Keith had one at
18 years old.
Sandra
Debra Watson
I was wondering that too about my own children. Though, I used to have very
little compassion for people, myself. Then when I dropped out of high school
(lol) and started learning more about other people, I started to really have
compassion on everyone... including some people who were very very mean to
me.
This is JMO, but I think it has to do with not being able to put yourself in
others place. Hopefully she will learn this, as I did. I hope this helps a
bit. I don't know about your religious convictions, but as a Believer,
following the life of Christ really helped me a lot as well. (I hope that's
ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of groups ask that we
refrain from discussing religious beliefs)
~Debi
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:33:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Compassion
I am not sure where to start with this, so I guess I will get right
to the question: Is compassion something you can learn? Is it
something a 6yo can learn? Do some people just have it, and others
don't?
Background: My daughter is a very factual, literal, not-overly-
emotional child. She is very lacking in intuition or compassion.
She does not notice, or at least she does not seem affected by,
people in pain (physical or emotional.) (She has millions of
wonderful qualities, don't get me wrong, but they are not the ones I
am concerned about.)
She does not realize when something she does is hurtful until I
really sit her down and explain it. Then she is very remorseful.
That, I figure, may come with time. What concerns me more is how
unaffected she is by people in pain.
For instance, one morning during her gymnastics class I almost passed
out, and had to lay down on a mat and several people were gathered
around me. It was near the end of class so the instructor led the
class to a side room so that they wouldn't see what was going on.
(Although they had to walk by me to get there.) Most of the kids had
looks on their faces like they were worried or wondering what was
going on. All my daughter was concerned about was telling me she is
thirsty, can she get a drink. The other kids all picked up on the
idea that something was wrong, but not her.
Fast forward to tonight: My dad had back surgery yesterday, and it
was a much more serious operation than any of us realized. So
finally tonight he was moved out of recovery and into surgical
intensive care unit, so we went to visit him. I took her, partly
because I knew it wouldn't phase her, partly because I was hoping it
would. When we walked into his room, she asked, "Is that Papa?"
because he really looked different. He was coming in and out of
consciousness, and kept wanting to change position (which hurt him
tremendously) and was trying to pull at his many tubes, so they had
to restrain him. It was really pitiful. But even in the midst of
it, all she was worried about was whether she would be home in time
for a tv show. Then she asked why we were staying so long (about 40
minutes) and I finally went over and explained to her that he had
been there all by himself (without family, anyway) all day, and he
was in pain, and then I asked her to think about what she would want
if she were in pain in a strange place. I saw a glimmer of
understanding.
I don't expect her to ever be an overly-compassionate, merciful type
of person. But I do wonder if there is something I should be doing
to help her see things from other people's perspectives. Maybe just
taking it incident by incident is all I can do. I know I am in a lot
of conflict right now just over seeing my dad like that, so maybe I
am making more of this than I should. I don't know. I would
appreciate any thoughts.
Tory
PS: She did cry when she watched ET and Air Bud, so it is in there
somewhere. Mainly for animals and extraterrestrials, though, it
seems. :-)
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little compassion for people, myself. Then when I dropped out of high school
(lol) and started learning more about other people, I started to really have
compassion on everyone... including some people who were very very mean to
me.
This is JMO, but I think it has to do with not being able to put yourself in
others place. Hopefully she will learn this, as I did. I hope this helps a
bit. I don't know about your religious convictions, but as a Believer,
following the life of Christ really helped me a lot as well. (I hope that's
ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of groups ask that we
refrain from discussing religious beliefs)
~Debi
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:33:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Compassion
I am not sure where to start with this, so I guess I will get right
to the question: Is compassion something you can learn? Is it
something a 6yo can learn? Do some people just have it, and others
don't?
Background: My daughter is a very factual, literal, not-overly-
emotional child. She is very lacking in intuition or compassion.
She does not notice, or at least she does not seem affected by,
people in pain (physical or emotional.) (She has millions of
wonderful qualities, don't get me wrong, but they are not the ones I
am concerned about.)
She does not realize when something she does is hurtful until I
really sit her down and explain it. Then she is very remorseful.
That, I figure, may come with time. What concerns me more is how
unaffected she is by people in pain.
For instance, one morning during her gymnastics class I almost passed
out, and had to lay down on a mat and several people were gathered
around me. It was near the end of class so the instructor led the
class to a side room so that they wouldn't see what was going on.
(Although they had to walk by me to get there.) Most of the kids had
looks on their faces like they were worried or wondering what was
going on. All my daughter was concerned about was telling me she is
thirsty, can she get a drink. The other kids all picked up on the
idea that something was wrong, but not her.
Fast forward to tonight: My dad had back surgery yesterday, and it
was a much more serious operation than any of us realized. So
finally tonight he was moved out of recovery and into surgical
intensive care unit, so we went to visit him. I took her, partly
because I knew it wouldn't phase her, partly because I was hoping it
would. When we walked into his room, she asked, "Is that Papa?"
because he really looked different. He was coming in and out of
consciousness, and kept wanting to change position (which hurt him
tremendously) and was trying to pull at his many tubes, so they had
to restrain him. It was really pitiful. But even in the midst of
it, all she was worried about was whether she would be home in time
for a tv show. Then she asked why we were staying so long (about 40
minutes) and I finally went over and explained to her that he had
been there all by himself (without family, anyway) all day, and he
was in pain, and then I asked her to think about what she would want
if she were in pain in a strange place. I saw a glimmer of
understanding.
I don't expect her to ever be an overly-compassionate, merciful type
of person. But I do wonder if there is something I should be doing
to help her see things from other people's perspectives. Maybe just
taking it incident by incident is all I can do. I know I am in a lot
of conflict right now just over seeing my dad like that, so maybe I
am making more of this than I should. I don't know. I would
appreciate any thoughts.
Tory
PS: She did cry when she watched ET and Air Bud, so it is in there
somewhere. Mainly for animals and extraterrestrials, though, it
seems. :-)
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/03 8:51:29 PM, debidoy@... writes:
<< I don't know about your religious convictions, but as a Believer,
following the life of Christ really helped me a lot as well. (I hope that's
ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of groups ask that we
refrain from discussing religious beliefs) >>
It doesn't hurt my feelings.
Having a role model of any sort, whether a saint or a philosopher or a
neighbor you admire or a grandmother you miss or Jesus or Buddha or the Virgin Mary
is a tried and true way to focus on virtues one wants to acquire.
Though lots of adults TELL little kids to be like so'n'so, I think it's just
noise to the kids until their own emotional maturity catches up with those
ideas.
Sandra
<< I don't know about your religious convictions, but as a Believer,
following the life of Christ really helped me a lot as well. (I hope that's
ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of groups ask that we
refrain from discussing religious beliefs) >>
It doesn't hurt my feelings.
Having a role model of any sort, whether a saint or a philosopher or a
neighbor you admire or a grandmother you miss or Jesus or Buddha or the Virgin Mary
is a tried and true way to focus on virtues one wants to acquire.
Though lots of adults TELL little kids to be like so'n'so, I think it's just
noise to the kids until their own emotional maturity catches up with those
ideas.
Sandra
moonstarshooter
> Does she miss other emotional clues? Does she miss jokes, or notknow when
> someone's just sad or grumpy? If so, I have two thoughts. One,that she's
> really young, and two, it might just be a lack of "interpersonalintelligence"
> (in Gardner's terminology).I think that is funny that you bring up Gardner's interpersonal
intelligence because I was in a lecture this weekend that talked
about the different intelligences, and I felt that interpersonal is
one of her stronger ones. I found a short definition as follows:
Interpersonal: Children who are leaders among their peers, who are
good at communicating and who seem to understand others' feelings and
motives possess interpersonal intelligence.
She is so strong on the first two parts, and completely lacking on
the third. In almost any group situation, she falls into the role of
leader, and most of the other kids are drawn to her in that
position. But it is a no-nonsense type of leadership. She is big on
things being fair--to anyone, not just her. She is way beyond her
years in communication. But boy, understanding others' feelings,
well, that just doesn't even occur to her.
I did talk to her before we went to the hospital. I didn't make it a
real big deal, just explained that Papa had an operation on his
back.
She asked what they did, so I told her that they cut open his lower
back and put in a long metal rod and ten 3" screws into his bone.
She made a face, then asked if she would have to have that surgery
when she was old, and I told her probably not, then she seemed fine
with it.
> Compassion is probably a pretty mature emotion. Some things seemlike parts
> of compassion, like pity and fear and queasiness, but I thinkcompassion is
> higher and more philosophical than those things.I guess compassion is a bit much to expect of her. But I would have
expected to see a little bit of uneasiness with the situation. I did
think about how she would probably make a good surgeon, something I
would be way too queasy to do. She would just lack in those bedside
manners. ;-)
> Sorry about your dad. Back surgery is always very scary. Keithhad one at
> 18 years old.Thanks. None of us realized what bad shape his back was in. Not
even the doctor. When he actually got into his back and saw what it
looked like, he said that the only people he had ever seen with backs
that bad were invalids due to the pain. (He was just out digging and
installing a water line three days before surgery.) He has such a
high pain tolerance. I think that is what makes it so hard to see
him in pain, just knowing how bad it must be. But he was on morphine
and was about to get his next valium dose when we left, so he should
be feeling better now.
Tory
Debra Watson
Really? I have noticed the oldest three of my children (ages 3,4, and 5)
all choosing role models on their own, and we discuss it.
~Debi
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:12:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Compassion
In a message dated 5/28/03 8:51:29 PM, debidoy@... writes:
<< I don't know about your religious convictions, but as a Believer,
following the life of Christ really helped me a lot as well. (I hope that's
ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of groups ask that we
refrain from discussing religious beliefs) >>
It doesn't hurt my feelings.
Having a role model of any sort, whether a saint or a philosopher or a
neighbor you admire or a grandmother you miss or Jesus or Buddha or the
Virgin Mary
is a tried and true way to focus on virtues one wants to acquire.
Though lots of adults TELL little kids to be like so'n'so, I think it's just
noise to the kids until their own emotional maturity catches up with those
ideas.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
all choosing role models on their own, and we discuss it.
~Debi
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 11:12:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Compassion
In a message dated 5/28/03 8:51:29 PM, debidoy@... writes:
<< I don't know about your religious convictions, but as a Believer,
following the life of Christ really helped me a lot as well. (I hope that's
ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of groups ask that we
refrain from discussing religious beliefs) >>
It doesn't hurt my feelings.
Having a role model of any sort, whether a saint or a philosopher or a
neighbor you admire or a grandmother you miss or Jesus or Buddha or the
Virgin Mary
is a tried and true way to focus on virtues one wants to acquire.
Though lots of adults TELL little kids to be like so'n'so, I think it's just
noise to the kids until their own emotional maturity catches up with those
ideas.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I think compassion is both "learned" through experience and maturity as well
as a personality/character trait. As adults, some folks are just more
compassionate and sensitive to others feelings than others. I have seen the same
diversity in children. One child may cry and show empathy if someone is hurt,
even a "not close" playmate. Another one may show little concern if thier
own parent or sibling gets hurt.
My niece has always been super sensitive to others pain. From as young as
1 yr old ( no kidding, I saw it myself first hand), she would pass out if she
saw someone get hurt. She is 8 now and she has learned to stop her passing
out because she can feel it coming, and she knows what situations cause her to
pass out. Most recently, my mom stumped her toe over at my sis' house and my
niece had to go out of the room to keep from passing out. She was very
concerned when my grandpa died recently. She really didnt know grandpa that well,
but her heart was just broken because her Grandma's daddy died. She didn't go
to the funeral because she didn't want to see her Grandma so sad. My nephew (
different sister's child) who was 5 when Grandpa died.. he sobbed at
Grandpa's funeral. He is a really compassionate child too.
The story about your daughter not being too concerned about your Dad's
surgery reminded me of Landon when I had Jon Phillip. I had forgotten all about
this, but a few days ago we were watching old home videos. I was in the hospital
after having JP. I called Landon on the phone to tell him about the arrival
of his baby brother. He had been in school that day and his aunt picked him
up. He didnt know I had had JP. His reaction?? He was mad at me because I
was supposed to take him to Toys R us to get a new toy. He was 8, and
obviously, his own self interests were more important than the fact that I was lying
flat on my back in the hospital from giving birth... LOL. My sister took him
to Toys R us and they stopped back by the hospital on the way home. Landon
was thrilled with his new toy. The new baby? Ahh, been there, done that, he
was not impressed. He was ( still is) a great big brother. But he has
always been more of a self focused person. He IS compassionate, but mostly just
towards people/things that affect him personally. I do not see that as
flawed. I just see it as part of his personality.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
as a personality/character trait. As adults, some folks are just more
compassionate and sensitive to others feelings than others. I have seen the same
diversity in children. One child may cry and show empathy if someone is hurt,
even a "not close" playmate. Another one may show little concern if thier
own parent or sibling gets hurt.
My niece has always been super sensitive to others pain. From as young as
1 yr old ( no kidding, I saw it myself first hand), she would pass out if she
saw someone get hurt. She is 8 now and she has learned to stop her passing
out because she can feel it coming, and she knows what situations cause her to
pass out. Most recently, my mom stumped her toe over at my sis' house and my
niece had to go out of the room to keep from passing out. She was very
concerned when my grandpa died recently. She really didnt know grandpa that well,
but her heart was just broken because her Grandma's daddy died. She didn't go
to the funeral because she didn't want to see her Grandma so sad. My nephew (
different sister's child) who was 5 when Grandpa died.. he sobbed at
Grandpa's funeral. He is a really compassionate child too.
The story about your daughter not being too concerned about your Dad's
surgery reminded me of Landon when I had Jon Phillip. I had forgotten all about
this, but a few days ago we were watching old home videos. I was in the hospital
after having JP. I called Landon on the phone to tell him about the arrival
of his baby brother. He had been in school that day and his aunt picked him
up. He didnt know I had had JP. His reaction?? He was mad at me because I
was supposed to take him to Toys R us to get a new toy. He was 8, and
obviously, his own self interests were more important than the fact that I was lying
flat on my back in the hospital from giving birth... LOL. My sister took him
to Toys R us and they stopped back by the hospital on the way home. Landon
was thrilled with his new toy. The new baby? Ahh, been there, done that, he
was not impressed. He was ( still is) a great big brother. But he has
always been more of a self focused person. He IS compassionate, but mostly just
towards people/things that affect him personally. I do not see that as
flawed. I just see it as part of his personality.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/2003 11:48:16 PM Eastern Standard Time,
grlynbl@... writes:
class. I even have memories of this in 1st grade...being friends with anyone and
going out of my way to play with kids no one else wanted to be around.
Although I think much of it was just my personality, I know both my parents
were models of compassion. My father was very soft spoken, almost a Mr. Rogers
type. Would almost cry when my sister or I were hurt and would hold us
close. Almost EVERY SINGLE time he got angry with us, he would later come to our
room later and apologize...even if he was right to be mad!! I can also
remember my mom crying when she heard a neighbor man had died. She kept saying she
felt awful for his son, only 8 years old. We were also avid readers of
National Geographic and often saw the disturbing pictures of the lives many "less
fortunate" kids lived.
I think the hard lives my parents lived as children taught them compassion,
and they passed it on to me. My mother's dad left when she was young (about
5), she was molested by an uncle, very poor much of her life. My father's dad
died when he was only 8 and he and his brother were raised by their mother
alone. She was a nurse, so maybe her compassion and caring for people rubbed off
on them.
I also wonder if having siblings helps "breed" compassion. I know my
children would bicker quite a bit when they were little, but when someone else got
hurt they cried as much as the injured child!!
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
grlynbl@... writes:
> >>I think compassion is both "learned" through experience and maturity asAs a child, I was ALWAYS sticking up for the underdog, or unliked kid, in
> well
> as a personality/character trait. As adults, some folks are just more
> compassionate and sensitive to others feelings than others. I have seen
> the same
> diversity in children. One child may cry and show empathy if someone is
> hurt,
> even a "not close" playmate. Another one may show little concern if thier
> own parent or sibling gets hurt.<<
>
class. I even have memories of this in 1st grade...being friends with anyone and
going out of my way to play with kids no one else wanted to be around.
Although I think much of it was just my personality, I know both my parents
were models of compassion. My father was very soft spoken, almost a Mr. Rogers
type. Would almost cry when my sister or I were hurt and would hold us
close. Almost EVERY SINGLE time he got angry with us, he would later come to our
room later and apologize...even if he was right to be mad!! I can also
remember my mom crying when she heard a neighbor man had died. She kept saying she
felt awful for his son, only 8 years old. We were also avid readers of
National Geographic and often saw the disturbing pictures of the lives many "less
fortunate" kids lived.
I think the hard lives my parents lived as children taught them compassion,
and they passed it on to me. My mother's dad left when she was young (about
5), she was molested by an uncle, very poor much of her life. My father's dad
died when he was only 8 and he and his brother were raised by their mother
alone. She was a nurse, so maybe her compassion and caring for people rubbed off
on them.
I also wonder if having siblings helps "breed" compassion. I know my
children would bicker quite a bit when they were little, but when someone else got
hurt they cried as much as the injured child!!
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <grlynbl@...>
<<I think compassion is both "learned" through experience and maturity as
well
as a personality/character trait.>>
Well this has me thinking about something I never really have before. I
guess maybe it does have something to do with each persons experience, where
they were personally when they had those experiences and just who they are
in general. I was always very compassionate about animals. Hearing awful
things concerning people never bothered me. I mean I didn't think it was "no
big deal" but it never hit me as terribly sad. Have it be an animal, and
that was a whole different story. Well into my adult life, I was still the
same. Now forget about it, half the country songs out there send me to
tears. I'm a total mush now. I know having my children had a lot to do with
my compassion level with other people. My age seems to be a factor also.
With younger children, I wouldn't worry too much about it though. I think
maybe quite a few of them don't really "get it" when they are younger. I
think it's a good thing really and rather protects them.
Tara has always been compassionate about animals and people from early on.
She sobbed hysterically the first time she watched Rudolph the Red Nosed
Reindeer. She was 2 and it was the part where Rudolph goes off by himself
because he feels so left out. Relatives that have died, ones she's hardly
knows affect her deeply.
Joseph and Sierra are a different story. I remember when they were around 3
and 4 and one of our pets had died at home. It was unexpected and very
sudden. I was alone with the kids, waiting for Joe to come home and take the
dog to the vets and she died in my arms. I was sobbing and here I had to
kids just running around and having the time of their life. I didn't want
them to hurt too, but it was hard for me to handle the situation with them
having so much fun! The next day it was like, "well Maxi's dead!" "She's
dead!"
They haven't really had many experiences to deal with though. My BIL died
recently and they just didn't get the impact it was having on the family.
They were close to him too. They knew how sick he was. They felt bad but it
was a fleeting feeling. I don't do funeral homes and Joe didn't think they
should go either. But at the service, a few times I broke down, they were
totally surprised and also looked very puzzled as to why I was upset. It
doesn't really bother me, I feel like it's their way of coping right now
that they are still young. They are different from Tara and I know the
degree of compassion they will have will eventually change too, just like
mine did.
Mary B
<<I think compassion is both "learned" through experience and maturity as
well
as a personality/character trait.>>
Well this has me thinking about something I never really have before. I
guess maybe it does have something to do with each persons experience, where
they were personally when they had those experiences and just who they are
in general. I was always very compassionate about animals. Hearing awful
things concerning people never bothered me. I mean I didn't think it was "no
big deal" but it never hit me as terribly sad. Have it be an animal, and
that was a whole different story. Well into my adult life, I was still the
same. Now forget about it, half the country songs out there send me to
tears. I'm a total mush now. I know having my children had a lot to do with
my compassion level with other people. My age seems to be a factor also.
With younger children, I wouldn't worry too much about it though. I think
maybe quite a few of them don't really "get it" when they are younger. I
think it's a good thing really and rather protects them.
Tara has always been compassionate about animals and people from early on.
She sobbed hysterically the first time she watched Rudolph the Red Nosed
Reindeer. She was 2 and it was the part where Rudolph goes off by himself
because he feels so left out. Relatives that have died, ones she's hardly
knows affect her deeply.
Joseph and Sierra are a different story. I remember when they were around 3
and 4 and one of our pets had died at home. It was unexpected and very
sudden. I was alone with the kids, waiting for Joe to come home and take the
dog to the vets and she died in my arms. I was sobbing and here I had to
kids just running around and having the time of their life. I didn't want
them to hurt too, but it was hard for me to handle the situation with them
having so much fun! The next day it was like, "well Maxi's dead!" "She's
dead!"
They haven't really had many experiences to deal with though. My BIL died
recently and they just didn't get the impact it was having on the family.
They were close to him too. They knew how sick he was. They felt bad but it
was a fleeting feeling. I don't do funeral homes and Joe didn't think they
should go either. But at the service, a few times I broke down, they were
totally surprised and also looked very puzzled as to why I was upset. It
doesn't really bother me, I feel like it's their way of coping right now
that they are still young. They are different from Tara and I know the
degree of compassion they will have will eventually change too, just like
mine did.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 28/05/2003 22:35:30 Pacific Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:
his age. My aged Belgian Tervuren died very suddenly one day, and I ran in the
house sobbing and carrying him, and cried loudly and long over his body.Tommy
peered over the edge of the gate, and said "Sorry Mom" and walked off and
played, no big deal.
However, when his favorite chicken was very sick and needed to be put down,
there was a huge crying and sobbing, when we came in from doing the deed, he
ran to me and said"It seems so empty around here without Red!"
I worked hard not to giggle, and we talked alot about the chicken. I
empathized with him, and we cuddled.I felt better that he did have feelings, but all
along, I was thinking"you little nut, what about my damn dog!!!!!!!"<G>
It seems to me that for children of that age, they are supposed to be very
self-concerned. I do find Tommy stickingup for people and animals as well.
Just my experience.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> Joseph and Sierra are a different story. I remember when they were around 3That reminds me of my son. Tommy is 7 and fairly egocentric, as is right for
> and 4 and one of our pets had died at home. It was unexpected and very
> sudden. I was alone with the kids, waiting for Joe to come home and take the
> dog to the vets and she died in my arms. I was sobbing and here I had to
> kids just running around and having the time of their life. I didn't want
> them to hurt too, but it was hard for me to handle the situation with them
> having so much fun! The next day it was like, "well Maxi's dead!" "She's
> dead!"
>
his age. My aged Belgian Tervuren died very suddenly one day, and I ran in the
house sobbing and carrying him, and cried loudly and long over his body.Tommy
peered over the edge of the gate, and said "Sorry Mom" and walked off and
played, no big deal.
However, when his favorite chicken was very sick and needed to be put down,
there was a huge crying and sobbing, when we came in from doing the deed, he
ran to me and said"It seems so empty around here without Red!"
I worked hard not to giggle, and we talked alot about the chicken. I
empathized with him, and we cuddled.I felt better that he did have feelings, but all
along, I was thinking"you little nut, what about my damn dog!!!!!!!"<G>
It seems to me that for children of that age, they are supposed to be very
self-concerned. I do find Tommy stickingup for people and animals as well.
Just my experience.
Nancy in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Deborah Lewis
***Is compassion something you can learn? Is it
something a 6yo can learn? Do some people just have it, and others
don't?***
I think six is really young and compassion, like everything else, will
come in it's own time.
Unschooling compassion.<g>
Her level of understanding of the feelings of others will come with
experience. If her experience so far has been that everything turns out
ok, then that's what she'll be assuming. I think that's nice, actually.
I think in a way it shows her faith that you'll always be there and
things will always be fine. When was the last time any of us felt that
secure?
We have cats and dogs and other critters and have always talked about
what makes them happy or sad. We don't have animals living with us
as a lesson, they showed up and we opened the door, but I think showing
compassion every day for others has been an example for Dylan.
We also live near elderly parents and other relatives. We're frequently
busy doing something for them they're not able to do for themselves and
we talk about it. We talk about our own lives and joys and
disappointments.
I wouldn't worry. She's little. If you're a compassionate person and
do things for others, she'll notice eventually.
The next moth you take outside, the next time you fill the bird feeders,
the next pot of soup you take to a sick neighbor will give her more
information and more things to think about.
Deb L
something a 6yo can learn? Do some people just have it, and others
don't?***
I think six is really young and compassion, like everything else, will
come in it's own time.
Unschooling compassion.<g>
Her level of understanding of the feelings of others will come with
experience. If her experience so far has been that everything turns out
ok, then that's what she'll be assuming. I think that's nice, actually.
I think in a way it shows her faith that you'll always be there and
things will always be fine. When was the last time any of us felt that
secure?
We have cats and dogs and other critters and have always talked about
what makes them happy or sad. We don't have animals living with us
as a lesson, they showed up and we opened the door, but I think showing
compassion every day for others has been an example for Dylan.
We also live near elderly parents and other relatives. We're frequently
busy doing something for them they're not able to do for themselves and
we talk about it. We talk about our own lives and joys and
disappointments.
I wouldn't worry. She's little. If you're a compassionate person and
do things for others, she'll notice eventually.
The next moth you take outside, the next time you fill the bird feeders,
the next pot of soup you take to a sick neighbor will give her more
information and more things to think about.
Deb L
Backstrom kelli
Just the fact that she cried during ET and Airbud is
huge to me. My first child, Molly has been diagnosed
with ADD and Nonverbal Learning Disability and who
knows what else (depends on the doc and day, I guess)
I was so fixated on her lack of compassion because
after all I am a clinical Social Worker who works in
teh field of compassion. How could I have a kid that
lacked in this area. Molly teaches me so much
everyday. She has taught me over the last year to just
give her time. She is now almost 11 and works with the
elderly as a volunteer experience (something she
wanted to do). She still rarely cries in movies and
stuff, we watched Rabbit Proof Fence the other day and
I cried my eyes out, she just sat through it and took
it all in. I know now though that this is just Molly's
way. She is very different than me, much funnier and
lighter and gosh, in some ways she sleeps a heck of a
lot better than I do at night! Kelli
--- Debra Watson <debidoy@...> wrote:
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huge to me. My first child, Molly has been diagnosed
with ADD and Nonverbal Learning Disability and who
knows what else (depends on the doc and day, I guess)
I was so fixated on her lack of compassion because
after all I am a clinical Social Worker who works in
teh field of compassion. How could I have a kid that
lacked in this area. Molly teaches me so much
everyday. She has taught me over the last year to just
give her time. She is now almost 11 and works with the
elderly as a volunteer experience (something she
wanted to do). She still rarely cries in movies and
stuff, we watched Rabbit Proof Fence the other day and
I cried my eyes out, she just sat through it and took
it all in. I know now though that this is just Molly's
way. She is very different than me, much funnier and
lighter and gosh, in some ways she sleeps a heck of a
lot better than I do at night! Kelli
--- Debra Watson <debidoy@...> wrote:
> I was wondering that too about my own children.who
> Though, I used to have very
> little compassion for people, myself. Then when I
> dropped out of high school
> (lol) and started learning more about other people,
> I started to really have
> JHcompassion on everyone... including some people
> were very very mean to__________________________________
> me.
> This is JMO, but I think it has to do with not being
> able to put yourself in
> others place. Hopefully she will learn this, as I
> did. I hope this helps a
> bit. I don't know about your religious convictions,
> but as a Believer,
> following the life of Christ really helped me a lot
> as well. (I hope that's
> ok to post. If not, let me know... I know a lot of
> groups ask that we
> refrain from discussing religious beliefs)
> ~Debi
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 10:33:58 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Compassion
>
> I am not sure where to start with this, so I guess I
> will get right
> to the question: Is compassion something you can
> learn? Is it
> something a 6yo can learn? Do some people just have
> it, and others
> don't?
>
> Background: My daughter is a very factual, literal,
> not-overly-
> emotional child. She is very lacking in intuition
> or compassion.
> She does not notice, or at least she does not seem
> affected by,
> people in pain (physical or emotional.) (She has
> millions of
> wonderful qualities, don't get me wrong, but they
> are not the ones I
> am concerned about.)
>
> She does not realize when something she does is
> hurtful until I
> really sit her down and explain it. Then she is
> very remorseful.
> That, I figure, may come with time. What concerns
> me more is how
> unaffected she is by people in pain.
>
> For instance, one morning during her gymnastics
> class I almost passed
> out, and had to lay down on a mat and several people
> were gathered
> around me. It was near the end of class so the
> instructor led the
> class to a side room so that they wouldn't see what
> was going on.
> (Although they had to walk by me to get there.)
> Most of the kids had
> looks on their faces like they were worried or
> wondering what was
> going on. All my daughter was concerned about was
> telling me she is
> thirsty, can she get a drink. The other kids all
> picked up on the
> idea that something was wrong, but not her.
>
> Fast forward to tonight: My dad had back surgery
> yesterday, and it
> was a much more serious operation than any of us
> realized. So
> finally tonight he was moved out of recovery and
> into surgical
> intensive care unit, so we went to visit him. I
> took her, partly
> because I knew it wouldn't phase her, partly because
> I was hoping it
> would. When we walked into his room, she asked, "Is
> that Papa?"
> because he really looked different. He was coming
> in and out of
> consciousness, and kept wanting to change position
> (which hurt him
> tremendously) and was trying to pull at his many
> tubes, so they had
> to restrain him. It was really pitiful. But even
> in the midst of
> it, all she was worried about was whether she would
> be home in time
> for a tv show. Then she asked why we were staying
> so long (about 40
> minutes) and I finally went over and explained to
> her that he had
> been there all by himself (without family, anyway)
> all day, and he
> was in pain, and then I asked her to think about
> what she would want
> if she were in pain in a strange place. I saw a
> glimmer of
> understanding.
>
> I don't expect her to ever be an
> overly-compassionate, merciful type
> of person. But I do wonder if there is something I
> should be doing
> to help her see things from other people's
> perspectives. Maybe just
> taking it incident by incident is all I can do. I
> know I am in a lot
> of conflict right now just over seeing my dad like
> that, so maybe I
> am making more of this than I should. I don't know.
> I would
> appreciate any thoughts.
>
> Tory
>
> PS: She did cry when she watched ET and Air Bud, so
> it is in there
> somewhere. Mainly for animals and
> extraterrestrials, though, it
> seems. :-)
>
>
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>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
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>
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Tia Leschke
> For instance, one morning during her gymnastics class I almost passedHave you had this happen before? If so, she might have just assumed
> out, and had to lay down on a mat and several people were gathered
> around me. It was near the end of class so the instructor led the
> class to a side room so that they wouldn't see what was going on.
> (Although they had to walk by me to get there.) Most of the kids had
> looks on their faces like they were worried or wondering what was
> going on. All my daughter was concerned about was telling me she is
> thirsty, can she get a drink. The other kids all picked up on the
> idea that something was wrong, but not her.
everything would be ok.
>When we walked into his room, she asked, "Is that Papa?"
> because he really looked different. He was coming in and out ofIt's true that kids often have no idea how to put themselves in the other
> consciousness, and kept wanting to change position (which hurt him
> tremendously) and was trying to pull at his many tubes, so they had
> to restrain him. It was really pitiful. But even in the midst of
> it, all she was worried about was whether she would be home in time
> for a tv show. Then she asked why we were staying so long (about 40
> minutes) and I finally went over and explained to her that he had
> been there all by himself (without family, anyway) all day, and he
> was in pain, and then I asked her to think about what she would want
> if she were in pain in a strange place. I saw a glimmer of
> understanding.
person's shoes. She also might have found it more overwhelming than you
thought, and that was her way of dealing with it. I went to see my mother
yesterday. She had fallen and broken her hip. She was on her third day
after surgery, so I thought she'd be perking up. (She had sounded really
dozy on the phone the two nights before, which I thought was probably meds.)
When I got there, she looked so different from what I was expecting, I
actually had to ask the nurse if I had the right room. She never really
woke up in the 3 hours I was there, and I have no idea whether she
recognized me. She didn't seem to. She's got pneumonia, so she was wearing
an oxygen mask. It was *very* depressing, and I wanted to retreat a number
of times. I *did* retreat into my book several times. It was just too much
to take. So maybe that's what was happening to your daughter.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Tia Leschke
> She made a face, then asked if she would have to have that surgeryMy dad died of bone cancer when I was 18. After he told me that he had
> when she was old, and I told her probably not, then she seemed fine
> with it.
cancer, the *first* thing I asked was whether it was hereditary, and I was
*18*! At her age, I'm not at all surprised that she was thinking of
herself.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Lisa M. C. Bentley
> I cried my eyes out, she just sat through it and tookI know that you know your daughter well and I'm not talking about your
> it all in. I know now though that this is just Molly's
> way.
personal situation, but I have to mention my thoughts on this topic. It
seems to me that it is often popular in our (United States) society to
believe that one cares about something only if they cry and get weepy.
I've been considered a cold hearted person on many occasions, while in
reality (my own heart) I am a rational and logical thinker that doesn't
cry unless necessary to relieve emotions that I am having a hard time
dealing with (something really drastic has to happen). I rarely cry.
However, I often FIX real life problems. If someone is hurting and just
got hurt, I'm the one fixing it. If there is some injustice going on,
I'll stand up for it (iff I believe in it). I stand up for myself and
the people I care about and I care about a lot of people and "causes".
I am very compassionate in the ways that count to me. I'm rarely
personally impressed by tears.
On the other hand, my sister can weep at the drop of a hat, yet never
does anything further about a situation. To me, she lacks compassion
and she believes in nothing. To the rest of the world, she is a sweet,
kind and caring soul that cares about everyone and everything. She says
the right words in a situation, then promptly forgets about the
situation. I, on the other hand, take everything to heart and do
everything in my power to rectify situations and I have never forgotten
a person's troubles once they've told them to me. As far as I know, my
sister sleeps just fine. I haven't had a full night in years.
-Lisa in AZ
[email protected]
<< I, on the other hand, take everything to heart and do
everything in my power to rectify situations and I have never forgotten
a person's troubles once they've told them to me. As far as I know, my
sister sleeps just fine. >>
GOOD POINT.
I'm that way too, Lisa. If somethings messed up I want to help fix it, not
sit around patting people and whimpering and saying "This is just terrible."
Some people see injustice and go into policework or law or politics or social
work without stopping to cry about it. And all those services and pursuits
will never do away with injustice, but I think someone who cries and then goes
and fixes her makeup and watches a soap opera isn't showing the compassion
that someone who goes door to door to get on the petition to be elected to do
something is showing.
Sometimes that compassion fades, after years of beating one's head against
the wall, but lots of people become nurses or teachers or ASPCA volunteers
because of tenderhearted compassion without many tears.
Sandra
everything in my power to rectify situations and I have never forgotten
a person's troubles once they've told them to me. As far as I know, my
sister sleeps just fine. >>
GOOD POINT.
I'm that way too, Lisa. If somethings messed up I want to help fix it, not
sit around patting people and whimpering and saying "This is just terrible."
Some people see injustice and go into policework or law or politics or social
work without stopping to cry about it. And all those services and pursuits
will never do away with injustice, but I think someone who cries and then goes
and fixes her makeup and watches a soap opera isn't showing the compassion
that someone who goes door to door to get on the petition to be elected to do
something is showing.
Sometimes that compassion fades, after years of beating one's head against
the wall, but lots of people become nurses or teachers or ASPCA volunteers
because of tenderhearted compassion without many tears.
Sandra
Backstrom kelli
point taken... I think that that was the point I was making, but maybe not clearly... anyhoo... I am a huge crier, me and dh, cried through our whole wedding, the births of our children, a rainy day, ect. That's just us and the way that we deal with things, I dont run off to eat bon bons and watch TV though after (well alright a bon bon here or there does sound about right, but I digress) I am a social worker, volunteer and activist. Dh is a musician and teacher. We do a lot to initiate change and action after we have a good cry. We also do a tremendous amount of laughing in our house too! Kelli
"Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...> wrote:> I cried my eyes out, she just sat through it and took
personal situation, but I have to mention my thoughts on this topic. It
seems to me that it is often popular in our (United States) society to
believe that one cares about something only if they cry and get weepy.
I've been considered a cold hearted person on many occasions, while in
reality (my own heart) I am a rational and logical thinker that doesn't
cry unless necessary to relieve emotions that I am having a hard time
dealing with (something really drastic has to happen). I rarely cry.
However, I often FIX real life problems. If someone is hurting and just
got hurt, I'm the one fixing it. If there is some injustice going on,
I'll stand up for it (iff I believe in it). I stand up for myself and
the people I care about and I care about a lot of people and "causes".
I am very compassionate in the ways that count to me. I'm rarely
personally impressed by tears.
On the other hand, my sister can weep at the drop of a hat, yet never
does anything further about a situation. To me, she lacks compassion
and she believes in nothing. To the rest of the world, she is a sweet,
kind and caring soul that cares about everyone and everything. She says
the right words in a situation, then promptly forgets about the
situation. I, on the other hand, take everything to heart and do
everything in my power to rectify situations and I have never forgotten
a person's troubles once they've told them to me. As far as I know, my
sister sleeps just fine. I haven't had a full night in years.
-Lisa in AZ
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"Lisa M. C. Bentley" <cottrellbentley@...> wrote:> I cried my eyes out, she just sat through it and took
> it all in. I know now though that this is just Molly'sI know that you know your daughter well and I'm not talking about your
> way.
personal situation, but I have to mention my thoughts on this topic. It
seems to me that it is often popular in our (United States) society to
believe that one cares about something only if they cry and get weepy.
I've been considered a cold hearted person on many occasions, while in
reality (my own heart) I am a rational and logical thinker that doesn't
cry unless necessary to relieve emotions that I am having a hard time
dealing with (something really drastic has to happen). I rarely cry.
However, I often FIX real life problems. If someone is hurting and just
got hurt, I'm the one fixing it. If there is some injustice going on,
I'll stand up for it (iff I believe in it). I stand up for myself and
the people I care about and I care about a lot of people and "causes".
I am very compassionate in the ways that count to me. I'm rarely
personally impressed by tears.
On the other hand, my sister can weep at the drop of a hat, yet never
does anything further about a situation. To me, she lacks compassion
and she believes in nothing. To the rest of the world, she is a sweet,
kind and caring soul that cares about everyone and everything. She says
the right words in a situation, then promptly forgets about the
situation. I, on the other hand, take everything to heart and do
everything in my power to rectify situations and I have never forgotten
a person's troubles once they've told them to me. As far as I know, my
sister sleeps just fine. I haven't had a full night in years.
-Lisa in AZ
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Free online calendar with sync to Outlook(TM).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
> << I, on the other hand, take everything to heart and doThis is me also.
> everything in my power to rectify situations and I have never forgotten
> a person's troubles once they've told them to me. As far as I know, my
> sister sleeps just fine. >>Lisa
>
I am a do-er rather than a shed a few tears and walk away person.
At times it can be stressful as I often take on someone's worries, find a
solution and then find out that they have moved on or gave up.
When my business, Country Moose Kids was running I had a woman form NY send
me a letter. I read it on my front lawn and broke out in tears. (I do Cry) She
had written a letter stating that she had nothing for her kids for Christmas,
he baby's crib was broken and that she had 6 kids (or 7).
I called a bunch of manufacturers and they donated roller blades, toys,
clothes, Gift Certificates from Children's place, baby toys and more. Even Fed Ex
overnighter all the packages for free.
When I called Christmas Day to see if Fed Ex made it she said to me "Where's
the crib"!
Ugh, My heart sunk.
It didn't take away my spirit but it almost ruined my Christmas.
That year we also gave gifts to 30 foster kids in Maine. That is what kept a
smile on my face.
Three plus years later I am building a site for my sister very similar to my
old site. She hasn't had any sales yet. I am not sleeping well.
I know she has a great deal of money into it. She has hopes that it will be
as successful as mine was.
I feel great stress. I took in over a hundred thousand my second year. She
wants the same but plans not to open the store front as I did and that's what
did me in. (No pressure though)
I know I never gave up, cried or threw a fit. I gave it my all and made it. I
can say I did it and I am proud. Unless I do it for her she wont even get off
the ground (she is getting ready to throw in the towel). I spent day and
night, hour after hour on line, handing out business cards, web submissions and
advertising. I want to just do it all for her but I cant, she needs to learn
how to do it.
I have compassion but I almost take it too far.
Sorry for the Christmas story but it's all been weighing on my mind the past
couple months......
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]