Schedules and classes...
Heidi
Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling? Is
one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?
Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly followed,
hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
etc.
Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?
Oh! another idea that came to mind for my way of doing this. MIght
not call it unschooling. Might call it Natural Learning or Learner
Led Education. and, when asked, might just say "Oh, we don't follow a
set curriculum. We learn about the things that interest us."
howzat sound?
HEidiC
one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?
Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly followed,
hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
etc.
Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?
Oh! another idea that came to mind for my way of doing this. MIght
not call it unschooling. Might call it Natural Learning or Learner
Led Education. and, when asked, might just say "Oh, we don't follow a
set curriculum. We learn about the things that interest us."
howzat sound?
HEidiC
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/2003 12:29:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
child is asking I dont think they did. The group I was referring to more closely
resembles School-in other places. They do piano, Mad Science, History get
togethers,writing classes and much more. Every week they have emails come through
with some new "class" but they say Unschoolers.
My understanding was that the child asks to do it not the parent schedules
it.
Even our local group who is mixed thought it was School at Home or rather out
and about.
To each his/her own just seems a bit much to me.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling? IsWhen I wrote that I meant classes that the parents schedule. Not that the
> one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?
child is asking I dont think they did. The group I was referring to more closely
resembles School-in other places. They do piano, Mad Science, History get
togethers,writing classes and much more. Every week they have emails come through
with some new "class" but they say Unschoolers.
My understanding was that the child asks to do it not the parent schedules
it.
Even our local group who is mixed thought it was School at Home or rather out
and about.
To each his/her own just seems a bit much to me.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Debra Watson
Oh, I just love the term "natural learning!"
~Debi
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:29:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Schedules and classes...
Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling? Is
one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?
Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly followed,
hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
etc.
Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?
Oh! another idea that came to mind for my way of doing this. MIght
not call it unschooling. Might call it Natural Learning or Learner
Led Education. and, when asked, might just say "Oh, we don't follow a
set curriculum. We learn about the things that interest us."
howzat sound?
HEidiC
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
~Debi
-------Original Message-------
From: [email protected]
Date: Wednesday, May 28, 2003 12:29:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Schedules and classes...
Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling? Is
one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?
Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly followed,
hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
etc.
Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?
Oh! another idea that came to mind for my way of doing this. MIght
not call it unschooling. Might call it Natural Learning or Learner
Led Education. and, when asked, might just say "Oh, we don't follow a
set curriculum. We learn about the things that interest us."
howzat sound?
HEidiC
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
--- In [email protected], HMSL2@a... wrote:
would it be completely not unschooling to say, get out the 4-H
catalog and say "Choose one of these for a 4-H project. Your
choice"? probably. But presenting the kid with a lot of 4-H options
is a way of opening up doors, right? so...ugh
HeidiC trying to relax about THIIISISSSSSSSSS!!
> In a message dated 5/28/2003 12:29:51 PM Eastern Standard Time,Is
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
>
> > Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling?
> > one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?that the
>
> When I wrote that I meant classes that the parents schedule. Not
> child is asking I dont think they did. The group I was referringto more closely
> resembles School-in other places. They do piano, Mad Science,History get
> togethers,writing classes and much more. Every week they haveemails come through
> with some new "class" but they say Unschoolers.schedules
> My understanding was that the child asks to do it not the parent
> it.okay, gotcha. classes that the kid is interested in taking. So,
would it be completely not unschooling to say, get out the 4-H
catalog and say "Choose one of these for a 4-H project. Your
choice"? probably. But presenting the kid with a lot of 4-H options
is a way of opening up doors, right? so...ugh
HeidiC trying to relax about THIIISISSSSSSSSS!!
Michele Evard
At 04:27 PM 5/28/2003 +0000, Heidi wrote:
it'd be 'good for' my son to take swimming classes, and i set it up for him
without his input, that would clearly not be unschooling. if i understand
correctly, it would still fit with the unschooling family if he wanted to
learn to swim by taking classes, and i told him we could go at such & such
a time regularly, and he wanted to do it. the class itself would be
unschooling, but just because we're unschooling doesn't mean he's forbidden
to choose to learn things by taking classes.
i'm a little less clear on who suggests taking a class, from the
description of the homeschooling classes in a previous message. again
closer to home: if andre & i talk about swimming, and he says he wants to
learn how, i don't think he has to be the one to look for ways to learn to
swim. i think i can suggest ways to learn (e.g. i could tell him that we
could go to a local pool & thrash around on our own, that i could give him
some pointers, or that he could take a swim class), and let him choose his
own way of learning. then again, andre is only 4. if he was 14, he'd
probably know that classes exist, and he could be the one to search out
info about the local pools. :-)
that we're going to the zoo tomorrow, or having a friend over at 10am--as
well as lots of unstructured time. and i need to have some rhythm for my
days just to get through them. speaking of which, i hear two tired girls
who like to nap at this time of day, so i should stop typing...
goals. i.e. if i tell andre he has write 1000 words a day, that wouldn't
be unschooling. if he wants to set a goal for himself, that's fine.
michele
who tries to do at least one load of laundry every day to avoid being buried
>Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling?wouldn't that depend on who is choosing to take the classes? if i think
it'd be 'good for' my son to take swimming classes, and i set it up for him
without his input, that would clearly not be unschooling. if i understand
correctly, it would still fit with the unschooling family if he wanted to
learn to swim by taking classes, and i told him we could go at such & such
a time regularly, and he wanted to do it. the class itself would be
unschooling, but just because we're unschooling doesn't mean he's forbidden
to choose to learn things by taking classes.
i'm a little less clear on who suggests taking a class, from the
description of the homeschooling classes in a previous message. again
closer to home: if andre & i talk about swimming, and he says he wants to
learn how, i don't think he has to be the one to look for ways to learn to
swim. i think i can suggest ways to learn (e.g. i could tell him that we
could go to a local pool & thrash around on our own, that i could give him
some pointers, or that he could take a swim class), and let him choose his
own way of learning. then again, andre is only 4. if he was 14, he'd
probably know that classes exist, and he could be the one to search out
info about the local pools. :-)
>Is one definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?i hope not! my children enjoy having some structured time--e.g. knowing
that we're going to the zoo tomorrow, or having a friend over at 10am--as
well as lots of unstructured time. and i need to have some rhythm for my
days just to get through them. speaking of which, i hear two tired girls
who like to nap at this time of day, so i should stop typing...
>Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly followed,it depends who is setting the goals & who has to accomplish the
>hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
>structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
>day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
>writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
>etc.
>
>Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?
goals. i.e. if i tell andre he has write 1000 words a day, that wouldn't
be unschooling. if he wants to set a goal for himself, that's fine.
michele
who tries to do at least one load of laundry every day to avoid being buried
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/2003 11:46:43 AM Central Standard Time, HMSL2@...
writes:
near Chicago.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Every week they have emails come throughLaura D - where are you? This sounds so much like some of the groups here
> with some new "class" but they say Unschoolers.
>
near Chicago.
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
----- Original Message -----
But presenting the kid with a lot of 4-H options
> is a way of opening up doors, right?
Well, why would you present 4-H to them in the first place?
OTH, if you went to the fair and saw 4-H presentations and your child
brought up that they would like to do that, that could be unschooling. I
suppose that 4-H varies a lot depending on the leader, but their stuff looks
pretty schoolish to me. Not that people can't do schoolish things as part
of unschooling. But if the parent sees 4-H as a way to get their kids to
accomplish something, it really wouldn't be unschooling.
I have erred with telling my kids about classes and getting them signed up
and haven't always had positive results.
I think that a child old enough to benefit from classes would probably
either know about their existence or would somehow be asking for help to
learn something. I don't think the parent would NEED to tell the kid that
there are classes.
I had to bite my tongue the other day when Jackie was playing drums with one
real drum and two overturned buckets. I wanted to say "You could take a
drum class.". I'm so glad I didn't. She KNOWS there are classes for all
kinds of stuff. She knows her cousin takes drum class and has required
practice time. I'm certain that if she ever wants drum lessons she will let
me know. For now, she just wants to play her drums when she feels like it.
It's also important to give a child an out if they sign up for a class and
don't like it. Which is why its also important to not rush into signing up
for classes without exploring other options first.
Mary Ellen
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/2003 3:30:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ejcrewe@... writes:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ejcrewe@... writes:
> In a message dated 5/28/2003 11:46:43 AM Central Standard Time,Maine
> HMSL2@...
> writes:
>
>
> >Every week they have emails come through
> >with some new "class" but they say Unschoolers.
> >
>
> Laura D - where are you? This sounds so much like some of the groups here
> near Chicago.
>
> Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly followed,
hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
etc.
Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?**
Well, if you are thinking about coming over to my house and making ME
consistently do a load of laundry every day, THAT would not be
unschooling. (I don't think that's what you meant <g>, I just scare easily.)
You can structure your own life however suits you. You can have a
schedule and try to stick to it religiously, or you can change your
schedule every day to suit your whims. If you find yourself saying to
your kids a lot "not now I'm doing the laundry" then you may want to
make adjustments for greater unschooling efficacy. That is, being able
to be very responsive to questions and requests.
Betsy
hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, you know,
structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink every
day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a writer.
etc.
Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?**
Well, if you are thinking about coming over to my house and making ME
consistently do a load of laundry every day, THAT would not be
unschooling. (I don't think that's what you meant <g>, I just scare easily.)
You can structure your own life however suits you. You can have a
schedule and try to stick to it religiously, or you can change your
schedule every day to suit your whims. If you find yourself saying to
your kids a lot "not now I'm doing the laundry" then you may want to
make adjustments for greater unschooling efficacy. That is, being able
to be very responsive to questions and requests.
Betsy
[email protected]
> MaineFunny how they all sound the same.
>
Elizabeth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rwdhmc
Patty here, I have an almost 7 year old son and I think we're unschooling. :-) My son very rarely asks questions or makes requests. If he does make a request, he might say, "Hey Mom, I want to do a project about insects; let's get a book!". Invariably he makes these requests as he's going to bed, or in the middle of his sister's nap. So the request gets put off and then he loses interest, or when his sister wakes up and we can go to the library he is "too busy right now".
Suggestions? How can I be responsive when he doesn't ask, or when he asks, he changes his mind or doesn't take others needs into account?
******If you find yourself saying to your kids a lot "not now I'm doing the laundry" then you may want to make adjustments for greater unschooling efficacy. That is, being able
to be very responsive to questions and requests.******
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Suggestions? How can I be responsive when he doesn't ask, or when he asks, he changes his mind or doesn't take others needs into account?
******If you find yourself saying to your kids a lot "not now I'm doing the laundry" then you may want to make adjustments for greater unschooling efficacy. That is, being able
to be very responsive to questions and requests.******
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/03 1:49:41 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< But if the parent sees 4-H as a way to get their kids to
accomplish something, it really wouldn't be unschooling.
kid's really interested in livestock and they live in an apartment, it would be
vastly cheaper to drive the kid to all the 4-H meetings and fairs he wanted than
to buy land and get sheep or pigs.
And for kids who are wanting social life and new friends, 4-H could be the
means to accomplish that.
<<I think that a child old enough to benefit from classes would probably
either know about their existence or would somehow be asking for help to
learn something. >>
I stumbled upon the Junior Police Academy here, while on a website looking
for something altogether unrelated. I KNEW Marty would be interested. Should I
have waited to see if he would stumble across it too? That would be cruel.
He's already signed up and has been to the orientation and fitted for his
uniform. It's all paid for by the Police Athletic League. It lasts a week and
he's really excited about it.
Two different friends of mine sent me information on a Weird Al concert
scheduled here for August. I might eventually have discovered that on my own, but
they WANT me to go and they want us all to sit together. So they told me
because they knew and they knew I would want to know.
I'm treating my kids the way I treat my friends. Unschooling is not some
sort of test on which they can't cheat, and getting help from adults would be
cheating.
I've never signed them up for classes they didn't want to take, but letting
them know what's available doesn't violate any unschooling principles, for me.
Holly was in my office the other night and said "what's this?" about the UNM
Continuing Education catalog. I picked it up and flipped through, reading
what kinds of classes they have, and explained that they're mostly one-day or
short-term things, not for college credit, just for fun.
I wasn't trying to press her to enroll. I was just answering her question
and giving her six or eight examples to give her the range.
Sandra
<< But if the parent sees 4-H as a way to get their kids to
accomplish something, it really wouldn't be unschooling.
>>Depends on the kid, and what accomplishments are being considered. If a
kid's really interested in livestock and they live in an apartment, it would be
vastly cheaper to drive the kid to all the 4-H meetings and fairs he wanted than
to buy land and get sheep or pigs.
And for kids who are wanting social life and new friends, 4-H could be the
means to accomplish that.
<<I think that a child old enough to benefit from classes would probably
either know about their existence or would somehow be asking for help to
learn something. >>
I stumbled upon the Junior Police Academy here, while on a website looking
for something altogether unrelated. I KNEW Marty would be interested. Should I
have waited to see if he would stumble across it too? That would be cruel.
He's already signed up and has been to the orientation and fitted for his
uniform. It's all paid for by the Police Athletic League. It lasts a week and
he's really excited about it.
Two different friends of mine sent me information on a Weird Al concert
scheduled here for August. I might eventually have discovered that on my own, but
they WANT me to go and they want us all to sit together. So they told me
because they knew and they knew I would want to know.
I'm treating my kids the way I treat my friends. Unschooling is not some
sort of test on which they can't cheat, and getting help from adults would be
cheating.
I've never signed them up for classes they didn't want to take, but letting
them know what's available doesn't violate any unschooling principles, for me.
Holly was in my office the other night and said "what's this?" about the UNM
Continuing Education catalog. I picked it up and flipped through, reading
what kinds of classes they have, and explained that they're mostly one-day or
short-term things, not for college credit, just for fun.
I wasn't trying to press her to enroll. I was just answering her question
and giving her six or eight examples to give her the range.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/03 3:24:45 PM, phdrwd@... writes:
<< Patty here, I have an almost 7 year old son and I think we're unschooling.
:-) My son very rarely asks questions or makes requests. If he does make a
request, he might say, "Hey Mom, I want to do a project about insects; let's
get a book!". >>
His request sounds very schoolish to me. Why (and for whose benefit) should
he "do a project"? Adn why, if he cares about insects, would a book be his
first desire? What about bug-catching equipment? Videos of rainforest and
desert insects?
If you provide him lots of experiences and sights and sounds, he won't ever
need to "make requests," he'll just be learning all the time.
<<Suggestions? How can I be responsive when he doesn't ask, or when he asks,
he changes his mind or doesn't take others needs into account?>>
Be proactive instead of reactive, I guess. Don't wait for him to ask.
Don't expect a seven year old to "take others' needs into account."
HE has needs, and if you're going to homeschool, you should be spending at
least as much time with and on him as you would be if he were in school,
including "school hours." He shouldn't be having LESS adult attention and
involvement as a homeschooler than he would have if he were in school, he should have
more.
Sandra
<< Patty here, I have an almost 7 year old son and I think we're unschooling.
:-) My son very rarely asks questions or makes requests. If he does make a
request, he might say, "Hey Mom, I want to do a project about insects; let's
get a book!". >>
His request sounds very schoolish to me. Why (and for whose benefit) should
he "do a project"? Adn why, if he cares about insects, would a book be his
first desire? What about bug-catching equipment? Videos of rainforest and
desert insects?
If you provide him lots of experiences and sights and sounds, he won't ever
need to "make requests," he'll just be learning all the time.
<<Suggestions? How can I be responsive when he doesn't ask, or when he asks,
he changes his mind or doesn't take others needs into account?>>
Be proactive instead of reactive, I guess. Don't wait for him to ask.
Don't expect a seven year old to "take others' needs into account."
HE has needs, and if you're going to homeschool, you should be spending at
least as much time with and on him as you would be if he were in school,
including "school hours." He shouldn't be having LESS adult attention and
involvement as a homeschooler than he would have if he were in school, he should have
more.
Sandra
The Dyers
Sandra asks: Why (and for whose benefit) should he "do a project"?****
Why would he put it in those terms? Probably because until March of this year he attended school or was homeschooled "eclectically", and probably because he hears his parents talk about doing projects. It's part of the language of the household, I suppose.
I imagine he expects to benefit from it because it was his idea. I dont' particularly like bugs. ;-)
Adn why, if he cares about insects, would a book be his first desire?*******
I think his first inclination would be to get a book because he likes to read and also probably because he sees his mother reaching for a book when learning about something new. Also probably because that's what he learned to do in school, albeit for a relatively short time.
What about bug-catching equipment? Videos of rainforest and desert insects?****
We have bug-catching equipment around here somewhere. We've just moved, we're still unpacking. We have an ant farm on hand, a Christmas gift, that had been sitting idle, but available, for ages. I suggested we send away for the ants when he expressed this interest in insects. The ants haven't arrived yet.
If you provide him lots of experiences and sights and sounds, he won't ever need to "make requests," he'll just be learning all the time. *****
See, I feel he perceives it as pushy if I offer experiences (to go somewhere, for example), or he tells me he's too busy to do what I've offered. So I've backed off, waiting for him to ask for what he wants. And then I think to myself, "how does he even know what's out there for the asking?". And the brain goes round and round. LOL
He shouldn't be having LESS adult attention and involvement as a homeschooler than he would have if he were in school, he should have more.****
Right, of course. So I say, "hey Matthew let's go get some cleats for baseball" or some such thing. His response is invariably, "Not now, I'm doing XYZ". Then XYZ is followed by ABC and I figure ok I'll go throw in some laundry and then he wants me *now. So I say, "I'll be right there", and then he gets distracted and so the day goes. He seems to have an agenda in his head, and being with Mom is not on it, or being with Mom is on the agenda when I'm reaching into the washing machine or my toddler is running amuck. I don't like this dynamic and I don't know what to do about it.
thanks for your thoughts.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Why would he put it in those terms? Probably because until March of this year he attended school or was homeschooled "eclectically", and probably because he hears his parents talk about doing projects. It's part of the language of the household, I suppose.
I imagine he expects to benefit from it because it was his idea. I dont' particularly like bugs. ;-)
Adn why, if he cares about insects, would a book be his first desire?*******
I think his first inclination would be to get a book because he likes to read and also probably because he sees his mother reaching for a book when learning about something new. Also probably because that's what he learned to do in school, albeit for a relatively short time.
What about bug-catching equipment? Videos of rainforest and desert insects?****
We have bug-catching equipment around here somewhere. We've just moved, we're still unpacking. We have an ant farm on hand, a Christmas gift, that had been sitting idle, but available, for ages. I suggested we send away for the ants when he expressed this interest in insects. The ants haven't arrived yet.
If you provide him lots of experiences and sights and sounds, he won't ever need to "make requests," he'll just be learning all the time. *****
See, I feel he perceives it as pushy if I offer experiences (to go somewhere, for example), or he tells me he's too busy to do what I've offered. So I've backed off, waiting for him to ask for what he wants. And then I think to myself, "how does he even know what's out there for the asking?". And the brain goes round and round. LOL
He shouldn't be having LESS adult attention and involvement as a homeschooler than he would have if he were in school, he should have more.****
Right, of course. So I say, "hey Matthew let's go get some cleats for baseball" or some such thing. His response is invariably, "Not now, I'm doing XYZ". Then XYZ is followed by ABC and I figure ok I'll go throw in some laundry and then he wants me *now. So I say, "I'll be right there", and then he gets distracted and so the day goes. He seems to have an agenda in his head, and being with Mom is not on it, or being with Mom is on the agenda when I'm reaching into the washing machine or my toddler is running amuck. I don't like this dynamic and I don't know what to do about it.
thanks for your thoughts.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/03 5:26:22 PM, phdrwd@... writes:
<< So I say, "hey Matthew let's go get some cleats for baseball" or some
such thing. His response is invariably, "Not now, I'm doing XYZ". Then XYZ is
followed by ABC and I figure ok I'll go throw in some laundry and then he wants
me *now. So I say, "I'll be right there", and then he gets distracted and so
the day goes. He seems to have an agenda in his head, and being with Mom is
not on it, or being with Mom is on the agenda when I'm reaching into the
washing machine or my toddler is running amuck. I don't like this dynamic and I
don't know what to do about it.
was exhausted, we had a house full of dirty dishes, laundry and camping
equipment, five coolers to unload, etc., and she wanted me to take her to Walmart to
get an iron on patch. I said no, sorry.
Yesterday I said "Let's go to Walmart!" but she had planned to meet a friend
at the park.
So for Wednesday, each kid had an errand (or rather Kirby needed to go to
work and the other two had errands). I had said in advance that when Kirby went
to work we should all go out and do what needed to be done. It was great.
We did Holly's Walmart run (and found the Snakes'n'ladders towels, but had no
other impulse buys), and then had a sit-down lunch where they told me stories
about the weekend (we hardly saw each other, even when I visited the camp to
bring them more food a few times), and we went to the uniform store to order
Marty's uniform for the camp/academy he's going to next week.
We try to discuss each night what each person has promised or hopes to do the
next day, and we schedule in advance that way. Sometimes there are sudden
impulse doings, and that's okay too.
Maybe if you make a list of things to do (like buy cleats) and a time or two
a day go through the list and propose things that can be done in combo or one
trip out, and ask him when he wants to plan to do it it might help. (or not,
but it might be worth a try)
Sandra
<< So I say, "hey Matthew let's go get some cleats for baseball" or some
such thing. His response is invariably, "Not now, I'm doing XYZ". Then XYZ is
followed by ABC and I figure ok I'll go throw in some laundry and then he wants
me *now. So I say, "I'll be right there", and then he gets distracted and so
the day goes. He seems to have an agenda in his head, and being with Mom is
not on it, or being with Mom is on the agenda when I'm reaching into the
washing machine or my toddler is running amuck. I don't like this dynamic and I
don't know what to do about it.
>>We've had some of that too. Holly wanted to go to Walmart Monday night. I
was exhausted, we had a house full of dirty dishes, laundry and camping
equipment, five coolers to unload, etc., and she wanted me to take her to Walmart to
get an iron on patch. I said no, sorry.
Yesterday I said "Let's go to Walmart!" but she had planned to meet a friend
at the park.
So for Wednesday, each kid had an errand (or rather Kirby needed to go to
work and the other two had errands). I had said in advance that when Kirby went
to work we should all go out and do what needed to be done. It was great.
We did Holly's Walmart run (and found the Snakes'n'ladders towels, but had no
other impulse buys), and then had a sit-down lunch where they told me stories
about the weekend (we hardly saw each other, even when I visited the camp to
bring them more food a few times), and we went to the uniform store to order
Marty's uniform for the camp/academy he's going to next week.
We try to discuss each night what each person has promised or hopes to do the
next day, and we schedule in advance that way. Sometimes there are sudden
impulse doings, and that's okay too.
Maybe if you make a list of things to do (like buy cleats) and a time or two
a day go through the list and propose things that can be done in combo or one
trip out, and ask him when he wants to plan to do it it might help. (or not,
but it might be worth a try)
Sandra
The Dyers
Maybe I'll start using the chalkboard we just hung up in the kitchen to jumpstart this. Matthew likes having a visual reminder. An aside: The chalkboard is helping my feeble attempts to peaceably plan dinner. Matthew saw tonight's menu and said, "I'll take the garlic bread, but I'll make the rest of my dinner myself". Okay by me, kiddo.
Thank you Sandra.
Patty
Sandra wrote:Maybe if you make a list of things to do (like buy cleats) and a time or two
a day go through the list and propose things that can be done in combo or one
trip out, and ask him when he wants to plan to do it it might help. (or not,
but it might be worth a try)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Thank you Sandra.
Patty
Sandra wrote:Maybe if you make a list of things to do (like buy cleats) and a time or two
a day go through the list and propose things that can be done in combo or one
trip out, and ask him when he wants to plan to do it it might help. (or not,
but it might be worth a try)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
** See, I feel he perceives it as pushy if I offer experiences (to go
somewhere, for example), or he tells me he's too busy to do what I've
offered. So I've backed off, waiting for him to ask for what he wants.
And then I think to myself, "how does he even know what's out there for
the asking?". And the brain goes round and round. LOL**
It is a lot easier to strew books around the living room than it is to
strew field trips. I could also use suggestions on how to make possible
outings more "visible". A big caledar and bulletin board? Snapshots?
Travel brochures?
Betsy
somewhere, for example), or he tells me he's too busy to do what I've
offered. So I've backed off, waiting for him to ask for what he wants.
And then I think to myself, "how does he even know what's out there for
the asking?". And the brain goes round and round. LOL**
It is a lot easier to strew books around the living room than it is to
strew field trips. I could also use suggestions on how to make possible
outings more "visible". A big caledar and bulletin board? Snapshots?
Travel brochures?
Betsy
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/28/2003 5:13:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ejcrewe@... writes:
increase even more. I want to start an Unschooling group in my state but I
worry there may be that question or two that I cant answer.
I know what I have witnessed is that Unschooling once seen or somewhat
understood is catchy.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
ejcrewe@... writes:
> >MaineMaybe if one or two people from each state started a group the numbers would
> >
> Funny how they all sound the same.
>
> Elizabeth
increase even more. I want to start an Unschooling group in my state but I
worry there may be that question or two that I cant answer.
I know what I have witnessed is that Unschooling once seen or somewhat
understood is catchy.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi
--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
Well I'm coming over and CRACKIN THE WHIP! get that laundry done!
LOL
seriously, this sounds like the point: If I wouldn't make you stay to
my schedule, why should I make my kids do so, right?
HeidiC
wrote:
>followed,
>
> **Gotta have structure, IMO. NOt etched in stone, strictly
> hour to hour scheduling. THAT doesn't work for anyone. But, youknow,
> structure. Like, a load of laundry a day and shine your sink everywriter.
> day. Or, run the vacuum twice a week. Or maybe a daily goal of
> writing 1,000 words, if one has a longer term goal of being a
> etc.ME
>
> Is THAT averse to the principles of unschooling?**
>
>
> Well, if you are thinking about coming over to my house and making
> consistently do a load of laundry every day, THAT would not bescare easily.)
> unschooling. (I don't think that's what you meant <g>, I just
Well I'm coming over and CRACKIN THE WHIP! get that laundry done!
LOL
seriously, this sounds like the point: If I wouldn't make you stay to
my schedule, why should I make my kids do so, right?
HeidiC
Heidi
> << Patty here, I have an almost 7 year old son and I think we'reunschooling.
> :-) My son very rarely asks questions or makes requests. If hedoes make a
> request, he might say, "Hey Mom, I want to do a project aboutinsects; let's
> get a book!". >>benefit) should
>
> His request sounds very schoolish to me. Why (and for whose
> he "do a project"?His request reminds me of the character E.D. in "Surviving the
Applewhites," the self-regimented, scheduled, non-artsy member. She
made up weekly schedules, projects, programs, etc for herself, not
because of anyone but her own self. And maybe that part of him is
something this boy needs to explore. I wouldn't discourage that kind
of thing, but let him play with it to his heart's desire.
But I also agree with you, Sandra, on this stuff:
Adn why, if he cares about insects, would a book be his
> first desire? What about bug-catching equipment? Videos ofrainforest and
> desert insects?won't ever
>
> If you provide him lots of experiences and sights and sounds, he
> need to "make requests," he'll just be learning all the time.not only books, but everything that's needed to catch and study bugs,
>
including those nature documentaries.
HeidiC
Heidi
to his heart's CONTENT...sheesh
heidiC whose brain drifts in the ether this evening
heidiC whose brain drifts in the ether this evening
Betsy
** Well I'm coming over and CRACKIN THE WHIP! get that laundry done!
LOL**
Hee! I jumped and realized that *again* you caught me in front of the
computer instead of doing the laundry. Funny how that works. <g>
Betsy
LOL**
Hee! I jumped and realized that *again* you caught me in front of the
computer instead of doing the laundry. Funny how that works. <g>
Betsy
hollyfurgason
--- In [email protected], "rwdhmc" <phdrwd@s...>
wrote:
requests. If he does make a request, he might say, "Hey Mom, I want
to do a project about insects; let's get a book!".
I find this very a very interesting request from a 7 yo unschooler.
My kids when they were 7 they went out and watched or caught insects.
Sometimes they found books about insects in the library. I don't
think an idea for a "project" ever popped into their heads. Insects
were there, they enjoyed them and they didn't need me (except perhaps
to put holes in the top of a jar).
Holly (out of lurking mode waiting up for a child)
wrote:
> Patty here, I have an almost 7 year old son and I think we'reunschooling. :-) My son very rarely asks questions or makes
requests. If he does make a request, he might say, "Hey Mom, I want
to do a project about insects; let's get a book!".
I find this very a very interesting request from a 7 yo unschooler.
My kids when they were 7 they went out and watched or caught insects.
Sometimes they found books about insects in the library. I don't
think an idea for a "project" ever popped into their heads. Insects
were there, they enjoyed them and they didn't need me (except perhaps
to put holes in the top of a jar).
Holly (out of lurking mode waiting up for a child)
[email protected]
**Okay, so...does scheduling classes mean you're not unschooling? Is one
definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?**
**When I wrote that I meant classes that the parents schedule. Not that the
child is asking I dont think they did. The group I was referring to more
closely
resembles School-in other places. They do piano, Mad Science, History get
togethers,writing classes and much more.**
And it gets complicated because some kids are there because they saw the
announcement and yelled "MOM! Can I pleeeeaaaaseee go?" and others because Mom saw
the announcement and said "Hey, you want to go?" and still others are because
Mom signed her kids up for everything and they WILL go and like it too or
else. :) Some "unschooling" groups run full fledged co-ops one day a week. Some
run "enrichment days" every month. Some really ought to call their groups
"school".
My son hopes to find some other kids who want to come play around with math
games and puzzles with him on a regular basis. We live on the outskirts of a
huge metro area, so there are bound to be at least a few unschoolers reasonably
close who'd also be interested. My problem/task is how to find them without
having to fend off the many many parents who are bound to see "math club" or
whatever he decides to call it as a great way to sneak some instruction into
their reluctant child. When we were looking for kids to come play video games that
wasn't a problem, no one seems to think their kids "need" more exposure to
video games. LOL
I met a woman at the ice rink a few weeks ago who's a very new homeschooler,
but who has done more reading research than many long time homeschoolers.
Anyway, she said she'd been reading The Well Trained Mind and I gave my honest
opinion of it. She said another homeschooler had told her that Well Trained Mind
is Unschooling. I think that qualifies as my mind boggler of the month.
Deborah in IL
definition of unschooling "Zero Structure"?**
**When I wrote that I meant classes that the parents schedule. Not that the
child is asking I dont think they did. The group I was referring to more
closely
resembles School-in other places. They do piano, Mad Science, History get
togethers,writing classes and much more.**
And it gets complicated because some kids are there because they saw the
announcement and yelled "MOM! Can I pleeeeaaaaseee go?" and others because Mom saw
the announcement and said "Hey, you want to go?" and still others are because
Mom signed her kids up for everything and they WILL go and like it too or
else. :) Some "unschooling" groups run full fledged co-ops one day a week. Some
run "enrichment days" every month. Some really ought to call their groups
"school".
My son hopes to find some other kids who want to come play around with math
games and puzzles with him on a regular basis. We live on the outskirts of a
huge metro area, so there are bound to be at least a few unschoolers reasonably
close who'd also be interested. My problem/task is how to find them without
having to fend off the many many parents who are bound to see "math club" or
whatever he decides to call it as a great way to sneak some instruction into
their reluctant child. When we were looking for kids to come play video games that
wasn't a problem, no one seems to think their kids "need" more exposure to
video games. LOL
I met a woman at the ice rink a few weeks ago who's a very new homeschooler,
but who has done more reading research than many long time homeschoolers.
Anyway, she said she'd been reading The Well Trained Mind and I gave my honest
opinion of it. She said another homeschooler had told her that Well Trained Mind
is Unschooling. I think that qualifies as my mind boggler of the month.
Deborah in IL
moonstarshooter
> I met a woman at the ice rink a few weeks ago who's a very newhomeschooler,
> but who has done more reading research than many long timehomeschoolers.
> Anyway, she said she'd been reading The Well Trained Mind and Igave my honest
> opinion of it. She said another homeschooler had told her that WellTrained Mind
> is Unschooling. I think that qualifies as my mind boggler of themonth.
My Mind Boggler of the Month had to be sitting in a lecture
titled "Unschooling-What it is, What it isn't" and being told that
unschooling is determining your child's learning style, then YOU
choose the curricula that fit your child. Developing
an "Individualized Curriculum." All this and more from someone who's
name would imply an apparent understanding of unschooling. And then
we wonder why people don't really "get" unschooling...
moonstarshooter
> My Mind Boggler of the Month had to be sitting in a lecturewho's
> titled "Unschooling-What it is, What it isn't" and being told that
> unschooling is determining your child's learning style, then YOU
> choose the curricula that fit your child. Developing
> an "Individualized Curriculum." All this and more from someone
> name would imply an apparent understanding of unschooling. Andthen
> we wonder why people don't really "get" unschooling...OH! And I forgot my favorite: In unschooling, we give the children
choices, "Do you want English first, or Math first?"
Come on!
Bill and Diane
Go for it! If they ask you questions just say, "I'll find out." and come
here for the answers!
I keep promising myself I'll start a group here, but keep getting too
mired in my own stuff to do so until "next month." One day my month will
come and I'll do it!
:-) Diane
here for the answers!
I keep promising myself I'll start a group here, but keep getting too
mired in my own stuff to do so until "next month." One day my month will
come and I'll do it!
:-) Diane
>Maybe if one or two people from each state started a group the numbers would
>increase even more. I want to start an Unschooling group in my state but I
>worry there may be that question or two that I cant answer.
>I know what I have witnessed is that Unschooling once seen or somewhat
>understood is catchy.
>
>Laura D
>
hollyfurgason
> OH! And I forgot my favorite: In unschooling, we give thechildren
> choices, "Do you want English first, or Math first?"We had a local news talk do a segment on homeschooling. They
>
> Come on!
spotlighted two homeschooling families; one school at homers the
unschoolers. The difference? The "unschoolers" did their workbooks
outside at the picnic table at different times everyday and with the
dog present!
Holly
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/29/2003 3:05:17 AM Eastern Standard Time,
torywalk@... writes:
Was that in the lecture you went to? Did you say something after to the
person speaking?
People should have requested their money back if they paid for that.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
torywalk@... writes:
> OH! And I forgot my favorite: In unschooling, we give the childrenWhat?
> choices, "Do you want English first, or Math first?"
>
> Come on!
Was that in the lecture you went to? Did you say something after to the
person speaking?
People should have requested their money back if they paid for that.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
The Dyers
I wish he didn't feel the need to me to orchestrate his exploration of insects, but apparently he feels he does. I've suggested he could start his project whenever he likes, but he stated repeatedly it's not going to start until June 1. I don't get it, but I don't feel it's right to push him. I trust he'll get it eventually.
Patty
****Insects were there, they enjoyed them and they didn't need me (except perhaps
to put holes in the top of a jar).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Patty
****Insects were there, they enjoyed them and they didn't need me (except perhaps
to put holes in the top of a jar).
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]