Re: rite of passage and adulthood
[email protected]
**Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? **
I think Americans have an unhealthy reverence for the idea of total
independence. I think it sets people up to always feel like they're not quite doing it
all right, because total independence is a total impossibility. I think
healthy interdependence is a good goal to work toward, and I think that includes the
idea that yes, you CAN come home again. Coming home is not necessarily a
failure or an indication of being unable or unwilling to deal with independence.
I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately. I know a LOT of kids who
are going to college even though they're not sure what they want or expect out
of the experience, and a few who are pretty sure they really don't want college
but are afraid not to go because that's the only way their parents are still
willing to support them. Some are going to study things they aren't much
interested in as a "back up" hoping they'll figure out a way to do what they really
want to do after college is over. All the adults I know who went that route
are still doing the "back up" jobs decades later, having never really tried to
follow their (usually artistic) dreams. My own daughter, I'm supporting by
saying "Do it now if you want. Try it now if you want. What's the worst that
could happen? You give it up in a few years and end up living back with us or some
other relative for awhile while you dust yourself off and move on? No
problem. There are plenty of people who love you all over the country. We'll be your
back up".
My current thoughts. :)
Deborah in IL
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? **
I think Americans have an unhealthy reverence for the idea of total
independence. I think it sets people up to always feel like they're not quite doing it
all right, because total independence is a total impossibility. I think
healthy interdependence is a good goal to work toward, and I think that includes the
idea that yes, you CAN come home again. Coming home is not necessarily a
failure or an indication of being unable or unwilling to deal with independence.
I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately. I know a LOT of kids who
are going to college even though they're not sure what they want or expect out
of the experience, and a few who are pretty sure they really don't want college
but are afraid not to go because that's the only way their parents are still
willing to support them. Some are going to study things they aren't much
interested in as a "back up" hoping they'll figure out a way to do what they really
want to do after college is over. All the adults I know who went that route
are still doing the "back up" jobs decades later, having never really tried to
follow their (usually artistic) dreams. My own daughter, I'm supporting by
saying "Do it now if you want. Try it now if you want. What's the worst that
could happen? You give it up in a few years and end up living back with us or some
other relative for awhile while you dust yourself off and move on? No
problem. There are plenty of people who love you all over the country. We'll be your
back up".
My current thoughts. :)
Deborah in IL
[email protected]
**Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable or unwilling to deal with independence? **
Why would anyone feel like a failure? Children aren't a "product" that
can be defective and sent back to the manufacturer. Young adults aren't
failures if they need to come back home for a bit to regroup before going
on to their next adventure.
I was in a really bad relationship and HAD to come back home when I was 19.
Should I have just stayed and dealt with it because going home would have
been failure? Hell no. I need to come home. I got a job close to home
that I could walk to and paid rent / did housework while I was there. I stayed
home about a year before getting my own apartment. In that time I was able to
get a better paying job and buy a used car. If I wasn't able to come back to
home base for a while I'd have been living in out of a cardboard box.
Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama, then come back
and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love before taking
off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance. Why not
young adults too?
TreeGoddess
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable or unwilling to deal with independence? **
Why would anyone feel like a failure? Children aren't a "product" that
can be defective and sent back to the manufacturer. Young adults aren't
failures if they need to come back home for a bit to regroup before going
on to their next adventure.
I was in a really bad relationship and HAD to come back home when I was 19.
Should I have just stayed and dealt with it because going home would have
been failure? Hell no. I need to come home. I got a job close to home
that I could walk to and paid rent / did housework while I was there. I stayed
home about a year before getting my own apartment. In that time I was able to
get a better paying job and buy a used car. If I wasn't able to come back to
home base for a while I'd have been living in out of a cardboard box.
Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama, then come back
and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love before taking
off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance. Why not
young adults too?
TreeGoddess
coyote's corner
What of parents that move in w/ us?
My wonderful aged aunt moved in w/ me to help me raise Brianna. It also (I hope) helped her. After 70 years of working - her social security check was only $479.00 a month.
Should I have said "No, I have to raise Brianna alone?"
Let me tell you, I'm grateful I had my aunt there for that time.
Should those of us that are raising our grandchildren not do that?
If I had a large home, I'd love to have my aged aunt (another one) live w/ us.
I'd have no problem putting up my son - he's 2000 miles away from me.
The very wealthy, I am told, often have multi generational homes. Isn't Charles living in Elizabeth's home?
I have no problem w/ kids going back home.
My cousin and his wife put their kids out on their 18th birthday. I think it's selfish and sad.
Janis
My wonderful aged aunt moved in w/ me to help me raise Brianna. It also (I hope) helped her. After 70 years of working - her social security check was only $479.00 a month.
Should I have said "No, I have to raise Brianna alone?"
Let me tell you, I'm grateful I had my aunt there for that time.
Should those of us that are raising our grandchildren not do that?
If I had a large home, I'd love to have my aged aunt (another one) live w/ us.
I'd have no problem putting up my son - he's 2000 miles away from me.
The very wealthy, I am told, often have multi generational homes. Isn't Charles living in Elizabeth's home?
I have no problem w/ kids going back home.
My cousin and his wife put their kids out on their 18th birthday. I think it's selfish and sad.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: treegoddess@...
To: Unschooling
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 10:57 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood
**Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable or unwilling to deal with independence? **
Why would anyone feel like a failure? Children aren't a "product" that
can be defective and sent back to the manufacturer. Young adults aren't
failures if they need to come back home for a bit to regroup before going
on to their next adventure.
I was in a really bad relationship and HAD to come back home when I was 19.
Should I have just stayed and dealt with it because going home would have
been failure? Hell no. I need to come home. I got a job close to home
that I could walk to and paid rent / did housework while I was there. I stayed
home about a year before getting my own apartment. In that time I was able to
get a better paying job and buy a used car. If I wasn't able to come back to
home base for a while I'd have been living in out of a cardboard box.
Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama, then come back
and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love before taking
off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance. Why not
young adults too?
TreeGoddess
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coyote's corner
Amen to that!!!
And I think the family separation thing may have something to do w/ some of the problems kids have.
How can a child have a sense of roots, a sense of belonging if there's no 'space or place' that grounds them?
How can kids feel safe & protected & cherished w/o family ties?
I stay in East providence because my aunts are here.
They're in their 90's.
Us leave??? nope.
Brianna has a relationship w/ them that's wonderful!!
Janis
And I think the family separation thing may have something to do w/ some of the problems kids have.
How can a child have a sense of roots, a sense of belonging if there's no 'space or place' that grounds them?
How can kids feel safe & protected & cherished w/o family ties?
I stay in East providence because my aunts are here.
They're in their 90's.
Us leave??? nope.
Brianna has a relationship w/ them that's wonderful!!
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: treegoddess@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood
CelticFrau@... wrote:
>Instead of the child growing and moving away, the parents reached retirement age and left their hometowns and children behind. <snip> It's not only the YOUNG who have bought into the expected "grow up and move away" but the older folks too.
>
This sucks too! I've always been close to my grandparents and looked
forward to my children having a close relationship with them too. 9
years ago they moved to FL and we've hardly seen them. Last year they
both were having tons of health problems and we were powerless to help
them. None of us could afford to come down there and/or take time off
of work or leave our little ones. My grandma wants to move back here,
but my grandpa loves it there. <sigh> I wish people weren't so anxious
to leave their families.
TreeGoddess
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/2003 10:15:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
lived with my parents. He had drug problems in the past but is clean now (I
think) though he is an alcoholic. He has been fired from every job he's ever
had and doesn't work now...actually, he hasn't worked in years. He perceives
that everything that he does is someone eles's fault and blames my parents for
not "making" him go to college. My parents, who should be thinking about
retirement, are afraid to leave him alone for a weekend to take a trip in case
something happens to the house and they are financially strapped due to paying his
various lawyer fees, court costs and traffic fines, besides supporting him. He
says that this arrangement works fine for him. I realize that he is no longer
a teenager or even a young adult, but I'm curious as to what others think. I
often feel that he is never going to be independent unless he's forced to be.
Sorry so long...
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jana@... writes:
> Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama,This is a confusing topic for me. I have a 31 year old brother who has always
> then come back
> and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love
> before taking
> off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance.
> Why not
> young adults too?
>
lived with my parents. He had drug problems in the past but is clean now (I
think) though he is an alcoholic. He has been fired from every job he's ever
had and doesn't work now...actually, he hasn't worked in years. He perceives
that everything that he does is someone eles's fault and blames my parents for
not "making" him go to college. My parents, who should be thinking about
retirement, are afraid to leave him alone for a weekend to take a trip in case
something happens to the house and they are financially strapped due to paying his
various lawyer fees, court costs and traffic fines, besides supporting him. He
says that this arrangement works fine for him. I realize that he is no longer
a teenager or even a young adult, but I'm curious as to what others think. I
often feel that he is never going to be independent unless he's forced to be.
Sorry so long...
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Hi,
That's totally different. That's enabling. I have Brianna because her mom, my daughter, is an addict. (Coming up on two years clean!!)
I had to put Channa out.
The last year she was using, her second child was in foster care (I wouldn't take anymore children); she was homeless. I let her sleep in the mini-van. She had blankets and pillows. It was cold out. I would not let her sleep in my home.
Your parents are not helping your brother. They're enabling him.
They need to use tough love.
They need to realize that his choices are his choices. They are no longer responsible for his life.
Have an adult child come home that is getting on his/her feet is one thing.
Supporting a junkie or a drunk is another. They should put him out.
Good luck,
Janis
That's totally different. That's enabling. I have Brianna because her mom, my daughter, is an addict. (Coming up on two years clean!!)
I had to put Channa out.
The last year she was using, her second child was in foster care (I wouldn't take anymore children); she was homeless. I let her sleep in the mini-van. She had blankets and pillows. It was cold out. I would not let her sleep in my home.
Your parents are not helping your brother. They're enabling him.
They need to use tough love.
They need to realize that his choices are his choices. They are no longer responsible for his life.
Have an adult child come home that is getting on his/her feet is one thing.
Supporting a junkie or a drunk is another. They should put him out.
Good luck,
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: amycats2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 11:40 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood
In a message dated 5/24/2003 10:15:59 AM Central Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
> Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama,
> then come back
> and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love
> before taking
> off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance.
> Why not
> young adults too?
>
This is a confusing topic for me. I have a 31 year old brother who has always
lived with my parents. He had drug problems in the past but is clean now (I
think) though he is an alcoholic. He has been fired from every job he's ever
had and doesn't work now...actually, he hasn't worked in years. He perceives
that everything that he does is someone eles's fault and blames my parents for
not "making" him go to college. My parents, who should be thinking about
retirement, are afraid to leave him alone for a weekend to take a trip in case
something happens to the house and they are financially strapped due to paying his
various lawyer fees, court costs and traffic fines, besides supporting him. He
says that this arrangement works fine for him. I realize that he is no longer
a teenager or even a young adult, but I'm curious as to what others think. I
often feel that he is never going to be independent unless he's forced to be.
Sorry so long...
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/2003 10:47:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
says that he's afraid that my brother will be homeless and something bad will
happen to him if he puts him out. I do try to talk to my parents about it but my
dad says that I would feel differently if it were my son. It's just a
difficult situation for all involved.
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jana@... writes:
> Your parents are not helping your brother. They're enabling him.Yeah, I agree. He's actually told them that they are enabling him. My dad
> They need to use tough love.
says that he's afraid that my brother will be homeless and something bad will
happen to him if he puts him out. I do try to talk to my parents about it but my
dad says that I would feel differently if it were my son. It's just a
difficult situation for all involved.
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/03 9:41:37 AM, amycats2@... writes:
<< I have a 31 year old brother who has always
lived with my parents. He had drug problems in the past but is clean now (I
think) though he is an alcoholic. He has been fired from every job he's ever
had and doesn't work now...actually, he hasn't worked in years. He perceives
that everything that he does is someone eles's fault and blames my parents
for
not "making" him go to college. >>
My half brother stole money from my mom and left, so maybe he's out of our
lives now.
I called her on mother's day and ended up saying something (lightly) pointed
about not really wanting to hear that my brother had been letting her down
since he was 10 (or some young age she named, I forget numbers). I said "This
probably isn't the day to say this, but you were letting him down long before
that."
(Not an exact quote and I wish I remember what phrase she used and I used
back on her. It was something like, but not exactly "betraying my trust" or s
omething like that.)
She drank and smoked all the time she was pregnant and when he was a baby and
she swatted him in the crib for making noise when he woke up or for crying
and reaching for her when she said "no not now" (or whatever, not really
believing people who told her that babies can't understand English; seriously, her
third child and she was that ignorant).
So in her case, I sadly think they deserve one another. That seems cold and
terrible, but they are at least smart enough to know that not drinking is
cheaper and smarter than drinking.
I feel for your parents not wanting to leave him along in the house.
It's one thing if parents WANT a child there and all's happy. I withdraw
some of the conviction of my earlier post, then, because I wasn't thinking about
grown kids claiming a right to stick around and screw up their parent's lives
(or their sisters' lives; I had my brother two different time periods when he
was younger, when he was four and thirteen (and thereabout).
Sandra
<< I have a 31 year old brother who has always
lived with my parents. He had drug problems in the past but is clean now (I
think) though he is an alcoholic. He has been fired from every job he's ever
had and doesn't work now...actually, he hasn't worked in years. He perceives
that everything that he does is someone eles's fault and blames my parents
for
not "making" him go to college. >>
My half brother stole money from my mom and left, so maybe he's out of our
lives now.
I called her on mother's day and ended up saying something (lightly) pointed
about not really wanting to hear that my brother had been letting her down
since he was 10 (or some young age she named, I forget numbers). I said "This
probably isn't the day to say this, but you were letting him down long before
that."
(Not an exact quote and I wish I remember what phrase she used and I used
back on her. It was something like, but not exactly "betraying my trust" or s
omething like that.)
She drank and smoked all the time she was pregnant and when he was a baby and
she swatted him in the crib for making noise when he woke up or for crying
and reaching for her when she said "no not now" (or whatever, not really
believing people who told her that babies can't understand English; seriously, her
third child and she was that ignorant).
So in her case, I sadly think they deserve one another. That seems cold and
terrible, but they are at least smart enough to know that not drinking is
cheaper and smarter than drinking.
I feel for your parents not wanting to leave him along in the house.
It's one thing if parents WANT a child there and all's happy. I withdraw
some of the conviction of my earlier post, then, because I wasn't thinking about
grown kids claiming a right to stick around and screw up their parent's lives
(or their sisters' lives; I had my brother two different time periods when he
was younger, when he was four and thirteen (and thereabout).
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/03 9:48:17 AM, jana@... writes:
<< Have an adult child come home that is getting on his/her feet is one
thing.
Supporting a junkie or a drunk is another. They should put him out. >>
Good point.
Probably Elizabeth would even put Charles out if he started shooting up
behind the house.
Sandra
<< Have an adult child come home that is getting on his/her feet is one
thing.
Supporting a junkie or a drunk is another. They should put him out. >>
Good point.
Probably Elizabeth would even put Charles out if he started shooting up
behind the house.
Sandra
coyote's corner
Your Dad is afraid. I put my daughter out because I wanted to save her. It was hard, but being a parent isn't easy.
maybe you could get some books/websites about tough love.
believe me, all your dad is doing is helping your brother die.
Janis
maybe you could get some books/websites about tough love.
believe me, all your dad is doing is helping your brother die.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: amycats2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood
In a message dated 5/24/2003 10:47:21 AM Central Daylight Time,
jana@... writes:
> Your parents are not helping your brother. They're enabling him.
> They need to use tough love.
Yeah, I agree. He's actually told them that they are enabling him. My dad
says that he's afraid that my brother will be homeless and something bad will
happen to him if he puts him out. I do try to talk to my parents about it but my
dad says that I would feel differently if it were my son. It's just a
difficult situation for all involved.
Amy Kagey
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Maybe! I wonder if he would get the butler to tie him off?
Janis
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 12:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood
In a message dated 5/24/03 9:48:17 AM, jana@... writes:
<< Have an adult child come home that is getting on his/her feet is one
thing.
Supporting a junkie or a drunk is another. They should put him out. >>
Good point.
Probably Elizabeth would even put Charles out if he started shooting up
behind the house.
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
excellent stuff here! Thanks so much for your input.
Janis
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: dacunefare@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 1:08 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: rite of passage and adulthood
**Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? **
I think Americans have an unhealthy reverence for the idea of total
independence. I think it sets people up to always feel like they're not quite doing it
all right, because total independence is a total impossibility. I think
healthy interdependence is a good goal to work toward, and I think that includes the
idea that yes, you CAN come home again. Coming home is not necessarily a
failure or an indication of being unable or unwilling to deal with independence.
I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately. I know a LOT of kids who
are going to college even though they're not sure what they want or expect out
of the experience, and a few who are pretty sure they really don't want college
but are afraid not to go because that's the only way their parents are still
willing to support them. Some are going to study things they aren't much
interested in as a "back up" hoping they'll figure out a way to do what they really
want to do after college is over. All the adults I know who went that route
are still doing the "back up" jobs decades later, having never really tried to
follow their (usually artistic) dreams. My own daughter, I'm supporting by
saying "Do it now if you want. Try it now if you want. What's the worst that
could happen? You give it up in a few years and end up living back with us or some
other relative for awhile while you dust yourself off and move on? No
problem. There are plenty of people who love you all over the country. We'll be your
back up".
My current thoughts. :)
Deborah in IL
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coyote's corner
Sandra,
I don't think that what you've said here is cold & terrible at all. You are realistic. One of the hardest things I had to do was realize - deep down inside - that my daughter, my wonderful, beautiful daughter was a junkie and the other hardest thing was understanding & accepting on a gut level that to keep her around - to be around her - was poisoning my wonderful son.
You see these people with realistic eyes.
You've put your family, your life before the "what ifs" that are perhaps the only real elements of what's left between you and the others.
This is because you are a woman of strength.
Janis
I don't think that what you've said here is cold & terrible at all. You are realistic. One of the hardest things I had to do was realize - deep down inside - that my daughter, my wonderful, beautiful daughter was a junkie and the other hardest thing was understanding & accepting on a gut level that to keep her around - to be around her - was poisoning my wonderful son.
You see these people with realistic eyes.
You've put your family, your life before the "what ifs" that are perhaps the only real elements of what's left between you and the others.
This is because you are a woman of strength.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood
In a message dated 5/24/03 9:41:37 AM, amycats2@... writes:
<< I have a 31 year old brother who has always
lived with my parents. He had drug problems in the past but is clean now (I
think) though he is an alcoholic. He has been fired from every job he's ever
had and doesn't work now...actually, he hasn't worked in years. He perceives
that everything that he does is someone eles's fault and blames my parents
for
not "making" him go to college. >>
My half brother stole money from my mom and left, so maybe he's out of our
lives now.
I called her on mother's day and ended up saying something (lightly) pointed
about not really wanting to hear that my brother had been letting her down
since he was 10 (or some young age she named, I forget numbers). I said "This
probably isn't the day to say this, but you were letting him down long before
that."
(Not an exact quote and I wish I remember what phrase she used and I used
back on her. It was something like, but not exactly "betraying my trust" or s
omething like that.)
She drank and smoked all the time she was pregnant and when he was a baby and
she swatted him in the crib for making noise when he woke up or for crying
and reaching for her when she said "no not now" (or whatever, not really
believing people who told her that babies can't understand English; seriously, her
third child and she was that ignorant).
So in her case, I sadly think they deserve one another. That seems cold and
terrible, but they are at least smart enough to know that not drinking is
cheaper and smarter than drinking.
I feel for your parents not wanting to leave him along in the house.
It's one thing if parents WANT a child there and all's happy. I withdraw
some of the conviction of my earlier post, then, because I wasn't thinking about
grown kids claiming a right to stick around and screw up their parent's lives
(or their sisters' lives; I had my brother two different time periods when he
was younger, when he was four and thirteen (and thereabout).
Sandra
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[email protected]
dacunefare@... writes:
Aimee wrote:
<< **Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure
out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? **
Rereading what I wrote, btw, thank you, all, for not ripping me a new one!
*grin*
It was a tad, um, judgmental, sorry bout that....
<>
You're absolutely right, healthy interdependence is that middle ground that I
have been seeking. For me personally, it was sink or swim, and all that I
learned from that experience was valuable for me, but that doesn't mean I have
to set up that kind of disconcerting experience for my son, like my parents
did.
"Letting him come home" will not necessarily be a failure on my part, but
will just be another example of him choosing what he needs when he needs it, as a
part of HIS process of growing up.
~Aimee
Aimee wrote:
<< **Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure
out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? **
Rereading what I wrote, btw, thank you, all, for not ripping me a new one!
*grin*
It was a tad, um, judgmental, sorry bout that....
<>
You're absolutely right, healthy interdependence is that middle ground that I
have been seeking. For me personally, it was sink or swim, and all that I
learned from that experience was valuable for me, but that doesn't mean I have
to set up that kind of disconcerting experience for my son, like my parents
did.
"Letting him come home" will not necessarily be a failure on my part, but
will just be another example of him choosing what he needs when he needs it, as a
part of HIS process of growing up.
~Aimee
[email protected]
treegoddess@... writes:
<< Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama,
then come back
and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love before
taking
off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance.
Why not
young adults too?
TreeGoddess >>
*lightbulb moment* I never thought of it that way!
~Aimee
<< Toddlers and young children venture further and further away from Mama,
then come back
and crawl up on her lap for a few minutes to get reassurance and love before
taking
off again. Teens do something similar when exercising their independance.
Why not
young adults too?
TreeGoddess >>
*lightbulb moment* I never thought of it that way!
~Aimee
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/25/2003 12:28:26 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
AimeeL73@... writes:
it as me "letting" them come home. This IS their home, they are welcomed
here, loved and respected, they will/may move on in life and be elsewhere but
this house, this building filled with their memories (and still their THINGS)
will always be a part of them and therefore it wouldn't be up to me to "let" them
be here.
Now, their father... well, he's learning, and being more respectful I have to
say and he's understanding that sometimes children/young adults don't have
all the answers and we cannot give them to them. It's a searching process that
shouldn't be college or work but maybe some of both or something in between.
Eighteen is young for some, old for others but how in the world can we expect
our children/young adults to KNOW what life holds for them without some
exploration?
I remember in nursing school they said that they had a practice of ALWAYS
doing the nursing home rotations first, which is by far the hardest. The
reasoning they gave was that they would hate for a student to think nursing was their
lives work, spend years pursuing it, come down to the end and do the nursing
home rotation and quit. It seemed a waste to them. That was when their
highest number of students dropped nursing so they put it first and weeded out
those that were going to leave anyway.
At the time I wasn't sure how I felt about that. There is so MUCH more that
comes after the beginning, so much between geriatrics and growing family, I
didn't understand how others could try to influence the decisions of some and
make them think it was for their benefit.
Now, I see it's just a part of the way life is really. Not necessarily a
wonderful thing at all, but not entirely all bad. Depends on one's ability to
push forward and to really work for what they want, IF they even know they
really want it. The BEAUTY of it, is that it's almost NEVER to late to find a
passion, a desire, to fulfill a dream that was once out of reach for any number of
reasons. Probably a full third of the nurses in my graduating class were
mothers of children nearly grown and coming back to a passion/dream they held
long ago, or even just recently discovered.
Maybe they were finally able to nurture themselves and give themselves
permission to follow a dream? I'm glad the parents here do that for their children
from the beginning, what beautiful beings the world is in store for as adults!
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AimeeL73@... writes:
> "Letting him come home" will not necessarily be a failure on my part, but"Letting him come home" I think I would feel badly if my children looked on
> will just be another example of him choosing what he needs when he needs it,
> as a
> part of HIS process of growing up.
>
> ~Aimee
>
it as me "letting" them come home. This IS their home, they are welcomed
here, loved and respected, they will/may move on in life and be elsewhere but
this house, this building filled with their memories (and still their THINGS)
will always be a part of them and therefore it wouldn't be up to me to "let" them
be here.
Now, their father... well, he's learning, and being more respectful I have to
say and he's understanding that sometimes children/young adults don't have
all the answers and we cannot give them to them. It's a searching process that
shouldn't be college or work but maybe some of both or something in between.
Eighteen is young for some, old for others but how in the world can we expect
our children/young adults to KNOW what life holds for them without some
exploration?
I remember in nursing school they said that they had a practice of ALWAYS
doing the nursing home rotations first, which is by far the hardest. The
reasoning they gave was that they would hate for a student to think nursing was their
lives work, spend years pursuing it, come down to the end and do the nursing
home rotation and quit. It seemed a waste to them. That was when their
highest number of students dropped nursing so they put it first and weeded out
those that were going to leave anyway.
At the time I wasn't sure how I felt about that. There is so MUCH more that
comes after the beginning, so much between geriatrics and growing family, I
didn't understand how others could try to influence the decisions of some and
make them think it was for their benefit.
Now, I see it's just a part of the way life is really. Not necessarily a
wonderful thing at all, but not entirely all bad. Depends on one's ability to
push forward and to really work for what they want, IF they even know they
really want it. The BEAUTY of it, is that it's almost NEVER to late to find a
passion, a desire, to fulfill a dream that was once out of reach for any number of
reasons. Probably a full third of the nurses in my graduating class were
mothers of children nearly grown and coming back to a passion/dream they held
long ago, or even just recently discovered.
Maybe they were finally able to nurture themselves and give themselves
permission to follow a dream? I'm glad the parents here do that for their children
from the beginning, what beautiful beings the world is in store for as adults!
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/25/03 5:15:40 AM, jana@... writes:
<< I don't think that what you've said here is cold & terrible at all. You
are realistic. One of the hardest things I had to do was realize - deep down
inside - that my daughter, my wonderful, beautiful daughter was a junkie and the
other hardest thing was understanding & accepting on a gut level that to keep
her around - to be around her - was poisoning my wonderful son.
You see these people with realistic eyes.
You've put your family, your life before the "what ifs" that are perhaps the
only real elements of what's left between you and the others. >>
Still, it really hurts sometimes.
It would hurt worse, and hurt more people, for me to entangle my own
non-drinking husband, and my confident and safe three children with that sort of
sneaking, lying, screaming in the middle of the night, broken glass, horrible
friends life. At least I can shelter SOME people.
But many aspects seem wrong and sad.
Sandra
<< I don't think that what you've said here is cold & terrible at all. You
are realistic. One of the hardest things I had to do was realize - deep down
inside - that my daughter, my wonderful, beautiful daughter was a junkie and the
other hardest thing was understanding & accepting on a gut level that to keep
her around - to be around her - was poisoning my wonderful son.
You see these people with realistic eyes.
You've put your family, your life before the "what ifs" that are perhaps the
only real elements of what's left between you and the others. >>
Still, it really hurts sometimes.
It would hurt worse, and hurt more people, for me to entangle my own
non-drinking husband, and my confident and safe three children with that sort of
sneaking, lying, screaming in the middle of the night, broken glass, horrible
friends life. At least I can shelter SOME people.
But many aspects seem wrong and sad.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/25/2003 7:31:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
longer than a few years....
~Kelly, still alive, thank you! <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
> I do hear lots of children/young adults complain that their parents stillI'm 43 in August. My mother thinks I'm 14. I've been on my own quite a bit
> think they are 14 and forget they've been on their own for a number of years
> and
> are still alive.
longer than a few years....
~Kelly, still alive, thank you! <g>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tracy
Not sure if anyone had said anything about it {haven't read it yet so
sorry if someone had already posted it} but I plan to make it a very
special {but private time} for each of my daughters when they begin
their periods. {we have a close relationship and they are pretty
comfortable about things like that with me}.
I haven't quite decided how, but maybe just each one of them decide
if they want to "celebrate" just she and I or include her sisters.
And maybe have a relaxing cup of tea, maybe have a keepsake {charm of
some meaning} ect.
It took me years to get over the said and the unsaid stigma I took
hold of in my youth, over being a woman. And it is important to me
for them to be comfortable as adults, for them to be comfortable in
whomever they are, as well as whatever shape their bodies take, and
in their sexuallity.
By this I have to say I don't want them having sex early by any
means. But they will in the end, I know, they will do whatever they
choose with or without my knowledge. I just feel the more they can
communicate and the more comfortable they feel about themselves, they
will have a better frame of mind to make that decision.
Tracy
sorry if someone had already posted it} but I plan to make it a very
special {but private time} for each of my daughters when they begin
their periods. {we have a close relationship and they are pretty
comfortable about things like that with me}.
I haven't quite decided how, but maybe just each one of them decide
if they want to "celebrate" just she and I or include her sisters.
And maybe have a relaxing cup of tea, maybe have a keepsake {charm of
some meaning} ect.
It took me years to get over the said and the unsaid stigma I took
hold of in my youth, over being a woman. And it is important to me
for them to be comfortable as adults, for them to be comfortable in
whomever they are, as well as whatever shape their bodies take, and
in their sexuallity.
By this I have to say I don't want them having sex early by any
means. But they will in the end, I know, they will do whatever they
choose with or without my knowledge. I just feel the more they can
communicate and the more comfortable they feel about themselves, they
will have a better frame of mind to make that decision.
Tracy
coyote's corner
Brianna & I put a basket together for our friends as they reach their moon time.
Moon Basket.
a bag of cramp tea mix (we get this from Kodowl Teas- it is called Moontime Tea -kowdowl@... , a
teaball, toiletry items; including re-usable pads; incense, oils includiing "Woman's Blessing" also from Kodowl, bath salts - yup from Kodowl!! and of course Chocolate.
We are awaiting a copy of the Red Stone - it is highly recommended.
We put these things in the basket w/ some fresh seasonal herbs or flowers......
We include some stories about moontime.
We are look at our moontime as a time of strength and purpose. Who else - other than a woman can bleed for a week every month - and not die?
Let me know if I can be of any help.
Janis
_________________________________________________________________
Moon Basket.
a bag of cramp tea mix (we get this from Kodowl Teas- it is called Moontime Tea -kowdowl@... , a
teaball, toiletry items; including re-usable pads; incense, oils includiing "Woman's Blessing" also from Kodowl, bath salts - yup from Kodowl!! and of course Chocolate.
We are awaiting a copy of the Red Stone - it is highly recommended.
We put these things in the basket w/ some fresh seasonal herbs or flowers......
We include some stories about moontime.
We are look at our moontime as a time of strength and purpose. Who else - other than a woman can bleed for a week every month - and not die?
Let me know if I can be of any help.
Janis
_________________________________________________________________
----- Original Message -----
From: Tracy
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, May 25, 2003 8:07 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Young WomenRe: rite of passage and adulthood
Not sure if anyone had said anything about it {haven't read it yet so
sorry if someone had already posted it} but I plan to make it a very
special {but private time} for each of my daughters when they begin
their periods. {we have a close relationship and they are pretty
comfortable about things like that with me}.
I haven't quite decided how, but maybe just each one of them decide
if they want to "celebrate" just she and I or include her sisters.
And maybe have a relaxing cup of tea, maybe have a keepsake {charm of
some meaning} ect.
It took me years to get over the said and the unsaid stigma I took
hold of in my youth, over being a woman. And it is important to me
for them to be comfortable as adults, for them to be comfortable in
whomever they are, as well as whatever shape their bodies take, and
in their sexuallity.
By this I have to say I don't want them having sex early by any
means. But they will in the end, I know, they will do whatever they
choose with or without my knowledge. I just feel the more they can
communicate and the more comfortable they feel about themselves, they
will have a better frame of mind to make that decision.
Tracy
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sablehs
Got lots to go through {reading emails} but I was going to say real quick. I loved the idea someone had on another list with making their daughter's cloth diapers in to reusable pads if they still have them. :-) {kinda a synbolism}
Luv the basket idea, got some time to go I think but that s much like I invisioned.
Tracy
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 07:52:32 -0400
From: "coyote's corner" <jana@...>
Subject: Re: Young WomenRe: rite of passage and adulthood
Brianna & I put a basket together for our friends as they reach their moon time.
Moon Basket.
a bag of cramp tea mix (we get this from Kodowl Teas- it is called Moontime Tea
-kowdowl@... , a
teaball, toiletry items; including re-usable pads; incense, oils includiing "Woman's Blessing"
also from Kodowl, bath salts - yup from Kodowl!! and of course Chocolate.
We are awaiting a copy of the Red Stone - it is highly recommended.
We put these things in the basket w/ some fresh seasonal herbs or flowers......
We include some stories about moontime.
We are look at our moontime as a time of strength and purpose. Who else - other than a woman
can bleed for a week every month - and not die?
Let me know if I can be of any help.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Luv the basket idea, got some time to go I think but that s much like I invisioned.
Tracy
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 07:52:32 -0400
From: "coyote's corner" <jana@...>
Subject: Re: Young WomenRe: rite of passage and adulthood
Brianna & I put a basket together for our friends as they reach their moon time.
Moon Basket.
a bag of cramp tea mix (we get this from Kodowl Teas- it is called Moontime Tea
-kowdowl@... , a
teaball, toiletry items; including re-usable pads; incense, oils includiing "Woman's Blessing"
also from Kodowl, bath salts - yup from Kodowl!! and of course Chocolate.
We are awaiting a copy of the Red Stone - it is highly recommended.
We put these things in the basket w/ some fresh seasonal herbs or flowers......
We include some stories about moontime.
We are look at our moontime as a time of strength and purpose. Who else - other than a woman
can bleed for a week every month - and not die?
Let me know if I can be of any help.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]