Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood was Re graduations
[email protected]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< I realize it might just be buying into societies need to recognize and
hold
their children out for the world to see how "great they are" but I also
recognize there is some tradition to this rite of passage as well.
I've never really even thought of it before now and was just wondering what
others thought.
glena >>
I've been thinking about having a rite of passage for my son, maybe at
puberty, as so many great traditions do. But not some stiff ceremonial thing. I
dunno. Everyone's posts about puberty has made me think yet again about it.
Something to help them accept the stage of development and the changes of their
bodies seems vitally important.
But, I do think that graduation can be a teenager to adult rite of passage (
*singing* school's out for summer, school's out forever!) , but we can screw
that up quite a bit by sending them off to college right afterwards. *sigh* I
dunno, the accomplishments are commonplace, therefore not as useful as
individuals?
I've also been thinking about maturity, when is a child an adult, and society
seems to be constantly pushing it back. Read an article the other day that
psychologists are exploring the idea of a post-adolescent, pre-adult stage of
development, that can continue into the 30's!!! Ya know, those people who
work, but still live at home, those who can afford to buy nice cars and clothes,
but somehow can't afford rent or a mortgage or their own food?
The two women interviewed for the article say that because they aren't
married, don't have kids, or haven't bought a house, they don't consider themselves
adults. I think some kind of rite of passage is becoming necessary, and that
graduations aren't doing it anymore, not from high school, and not from
college, either.
Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home, unable
or unwilling to deal with independence?
Btw, I had my own apt, a baby, and a SO, and ya know what made me feel like
an adult? Buying and getting a brand new bed delivered for my 2 yo. I, to
this day, do not know why that is. *grin*
~Aimee
<< I realize it might just be buying into societies need to recognize and
hold
their children out for the world to see how "great they are" but I also
recognize there is some tradition to this rite of passage as well.
I've never really even thought of it before now and was just wondering what
others thought.
glena >>
I've been thinking about having a rite of passage for my son, maybe at
puberty, as so many great traditions do. But not some stiff ceremonial thing. I
dunno. Everyone's posts about puberty has made me think yet again about it.
Something to help them accept the stage of development and the changes of their
bodies seems vitally important.
But, I do think that graduation can be a teenager to adult rite of passage (
*singing* school's out for summer, school's out forever!) , but we can screw
that up quite a bit by sending them off to college right afterwards. *sigh* I
dunno, the accomplishments are commonplace, therefore not as useful as
individuals?
I've also been thinking about maturity, when is a child an adult, and society
seems to be constantly pushing it back. Read an article the other day that
psychologists are exploring the idea of a post-adolescent, pre-adult stage of
development, that can continue into the 30's!!! Ya know, those people who
work, but still live at home, those who can afford to buy nice cars and clothes,
but somehow can't afford rent or a mortgage or their own food?
The two women interviewed for the article say that because they aren't
married, don't have kids, or haven't bought a house, they don't consider themselves
adults. I think some kind of rite of passage is becoming necessary, and that
graduations aren't doing it anymore, not from high school, and not from
college, either.
Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home, unable
or unwilling to deal with independence?
Btw, I had my own apt, a baby, and a SO, and ya know what made me feel like
an adult? Buying and getting a brand new bed delivered for my 2 yo. I, to
this day, do not know why that is. *grin*
~Aimee
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/03 12:29:19 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<< Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? >>
If they CAN go home, then it's a realistic expectation.
The idea that being grown requires "realistic expectations" just seems like
more of the school-continuum-assembly-line thinking to me.
For a kid who's a millionaire, it's realistic to get a new car at 16 and to
cash out some stocks at 21 and travel around the world.
For a kid who gets along well with his parents, the realistic expectation of
staying at home for a while doesn't seem so evil or sinful to me.
And there are moms who want or need a kid to stay to help out at home (and
dads too, I'm sure, but I think of widows).
I think there are more cultures on the planet where people do stay at home,
many even after they're married and have kids, than there are cultures in which
people are considered slothful or immature to stay. I tend to consider
majority behavior globally. Our culture is so screwed up as to what's "natural"
that it's a bad place from which to view humans. "Natural" has been a bad word
in Western culture for a couple of hundred years, at least, so we often don't
KNOW what would be natural.
Sandra
<< Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure out
what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
unable
or unwilling to deal with independence? >>
If they CAN go home, then it's a realistic expectation.
The idea that being grown requires "realistic expectations" just seems like
more of the school-continuum-assembly-line thinking to me.
For a kid who's a millionaire, it's realistic to get a new car at 16 and to
cash out some stocks at 21 and travel around the world.
For a kid who gets along well with his parents, the realistic expectation of
staying at home for a while doesn't seem so evil or sinful to me.
And there are moms who want or need a kid to stay to help out at home (and
dads too, I'm sure, but I think of widows).
I think there are more cultures on the planet where people do stay at home,
many even after they're married and have kids, than there are cultures in which
people are considered slothful or immature to stay. I tend to consider
majority behavior globally. Our culture is so screwed up as to what's "natural"
that it's a bad place from which to view humans. "Natural" has been a bad word
in Western culture for a couple of hundred years, at least, so we often don't
KNOW what would be natural.
Sandra
[email protected]
Westerns do not initiate their men-children. Humanity evolved with man-boys being "welcomed" (sometimes brutally, but always done) into the community of men.
Westerners don't do it well or much; instead, seperate children from family, boys from dads, leaving boys LOST. Many, many books on that topic. (Robert Bly& Bill Moyers PBS interview too, quite good) Still critical issue to me WAYYY down in my soul, though "men's movement" is out of vogue now.
My thots
Tim Thomas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Westerners don't do it well or much; instead, seperate children from family, boys from dads, leaving boys LOST. Many, many books on that topic. (Robert Bly& Bill Moyers PBS interview too, quite good) Still critical issue to me WAYYY down in my soul, though "men's movement" is out of vogue now.
My thots
Tim Thomas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelly Lenhart
>Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong withunrealistic
>their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
>expectations about what adult life is, and can be.As Sandra says though, if coming home is a legitimate possibilty, how is it
unrealistic.
Many cultures ASSUME you will come home, raise your family in your parents
reach and that the generations will be closely tied. It's a very Western
idea this "move away at the age of majority" thing.
I think the big reason it becomes a problem here is that the "parent/child"
dynamic in many families is so authoritarian and it doesn't change when the
adult child moves back in. So the child stays "juvenille." Where as just
living at home doesn't mean you aren't meeting adult responsiblities. You
could be paying rent (or your share of the mortgage, whatever,) buying
groceries for the family, etc. Being an adult member of the family.
Kelly
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/2003 2:29:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
AimeeL73@... writes:
This made me think about a lot of things, my oldest came home to live after
college. She had her own apartment at school and had "been on her own" for
four years. Breaks were spent at home for the most part or some part anyway.
She did take summer school course for a couple summers so she was away a large
portion of that time too.
Her college was out of State, so I don't know if that makes any difference.
At one point she had thought of settling down in her college town, but a
broken heart and a low paying job brought her home.
I welcomed her home with open arms, glad to have her back around the house.
We nursed the broken heart and celebrated the "healing" of it as time passed.
She did work, she did contribute to the household, but she also drove my car
that we paid for and the insurance that we paid (same as college).
If I asked her to pick up something for dinner she did, very willingly. If
one of her siblings needed something, she helped out, often times even buying
their clothes.
Her dad, ever the one who can't wait for an "empty nest" (claims he wants to
be able to chase me around the house naked, uh, yeah...) would ask her too
often too suit me, when she was moving out.
Rents are very high here and she was substitute teaching looking for a
permanent position, waitressing at night. Sometimes a big week, sometimes not.
Schools here also pay only once a month, that takes some getting used to and
learning to budget to be able to make it thirty days between paydays.
She did move out, less than a year after she came home. It saddened me that
she left home, although not as bad as when I dropped her off at college (she
is about three miles from me). I know she wanted me to be excited and help her
find furniture and curtains and paint and decorate her new apartment but I
was a foot dragger in that dept. I didn't like the guy she was dating (he was
physically abusive) and I didn't want to feel like I contributed to her being
able to be abused out on her own out of site. I even feared he might kill her.
So I hated that time.
Fast forward to her being rid of abusive boyfriend, him finally out of her
life and in prison where he belongs and I AM happy for her and DO enjoy helping
her decorate and I do buy her things for her apartment.
So while I often doubted I was a very good mother at letting my children
"go", I found out there were reasons for that and good ones.
Would I feel like a failure if she were living at home? I don't think so, I
enjoy my children so very much, but I know it makes them proud to be on their
own, paying their own bills and doing things on their own. Not many of my
daughters friends live alone without roommates, heck most do still live at home,
all with college degrees or about to have them. I think she likes that she's
able to do something others see as a goal somewhere in the future but without
any distinct time frame in mind.
I see her every single day, well there are times when she goes to visit
friends or whatever that I don't see her every day but if she's home, she comes by,
usually for dinner and I very much enjoy her. I guess the feeling is mutual
or she wouldn't be here so much.
My older son moved out at 18 because his girlfriend said he should or she
would leave him. She'd been out of school longer and her mother wanted her OUT
ASAP. So while he's been on his own longer, he didn't go to college but
straight into a fifty hour or more work week. He needs much more help from us with
money, etc., even though he makes more than my daughter. I think her being
"on her own" at college but with a budget from us helped her learn that if she
wants to pay the electric, then maybe that little outfit from the Gap will have
to wait. She came home until she was ready to leave, he left sort of against
his better judgment.
She had time to ease into adulthood and all the huge responsibilities that go
with it. It was thrust upon him. He knew he could come back home at any
time (still can) but he's manly pride wouldn't let him.
In my experience it's much better for them to stay home with a loving family
longer than shorter and learn life's lessons before you find yourself on the
streets so to speak.
I might be wrong in thinking this but I enjoy the fact that my children
CHOOSE to be around me. I see so many kids in and out my door that will do
ANYTHING to avoid their parents and never do anything with them. I think that's sad
that a child would grow up and look for ways to see their parents as little as
possible.
Is it normal to be on your own at a young age? I was married at 17 but I
felt old already from so many life experiences and it was a relief to leave them
behind. I'm glad my children don't have to run from their home to find love
or validation.
Now, if there were living here at thirty-five, I might respond entirely
differently, especially if it was because they didn't know how to be responsible
for themselves or their families.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
AimeeL73@... writes:
> Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong withAimee,
> their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
> unrealistic
> expectations about what adult life is, and can be. I'm trying to figure
> out
> what my job is here, isn't it to raise him so that he can live his own life,
>
> responsibilities and all? Isn't it a failure on my part if he comes home,
> unable
> or unwilling to deal with independence?
>
This made me think about a lot of things, my oldest came home to live after
college. She had her own apartment at school and had "been on her own" for
four years. Breaks were spent at home for the most part or some part anyway.
She did take summer school course for a couple summers so she was away a large
portion of that time too.
Her college was out of State, so I don't know if that makes any difference.
At one point she had thought of settling down in her college town, but a
broken heart and a low paying job brought her home.
I welcomed her home with open arms, glad to have her back around the house.
We nursed the broken heart and celebrated the "healing" of it as time passed.
She did work, she did contribute to the household, but she also drove my car
that we paid for and the insurance that we paid (same as college).
If I asked her to pick up something for dinner she did, very willingly. If
one of her siblings needed something, she helped out, often times even buying
their clothes.
Her dad, ever the one who can't wait for an "empty nest" (claims he wants to
be able to chase me around the house naked, uh, yeah...) would ask her too
often too suit me, when she was moving out.
Rents are very high here and she was substitute teaching looking for a
permanent position, waitressing at night. Sometimes a big week, sometimes not.
Schools here also pay only once a month, that takes some getting used to and
learning to budget to be able to make it thirty days between paydays.
She did move out, less than a year after she came home. It saddened me that
she left home, although not as bad as when I dropped her off at college (she
is about three miles from me). I know she wanted me to be excited and help her
find furniture and curtains and paint and decorate her new apartment but I
was a foot dragger in that dept. I didn't like the guy she was dating (he was
physically abusive) and I didn't want to feel like I contributed to her being
able to be abused out on her own out of site. I even feared he might kill her.
So I hated that time.
Fast forward to her being rid of abusive boyfriend, him finally out of her
life and in prison where he belongs and I AM happy for her and DO enjoy helping
her decorate and I do buy her things for her apartment.
So while I often doubted I was a very good mother at letting my children
"go", I found out there were reasons for that and good ones.
Would I feel like a failure if she were living at home? I don't think so, I
enjoy my children so very much, but I know it makes them proud to be on their
own, paying their own bills and doing things on their own. Not many of my
daughters friends live alone without roommates, heck most do still live at home,
all with college degrees or about to have them. I think she likes that she's
able to do something others see as a goal somewhere in the future but without
any distinct time frame in mind.
I see her every single day, well there are times when she goes to visit
friends or whatever that I don't see her every day but if she's home, she comes by,
usually for dinner and I very much enjoy her. I guess the feeling is mutual
or she wouldn't be here so much.
My older son moved out at 18 because his girlfriend said he should or she
would leave him. She'd been out of school longer and her mother wanted her OUT
ASAP. So while he's been on his own longer, he didn't go to college but
straight into a fifty hour or more work week. He needs much more help from us with
money, etc., even though he makes more than my daughter. I think her being
"on her own" at college but with a budget from us helped her learn that if she
wants to pay the electric, then maybe that little outfit from the Gap will have
to wait. She came home until she was ready to leave, he left sort of against
his better judgment.
She had time to ease into adulthood and all the huge responsibilities that go
with it. It was thrust upon him. He knew he could come back home at any
time (still can) but he's manly pride wouldn't let him.
In my experience it's much better for them to stay home with a loving family
longer than shorter and learn life's lessons before you find yourself on the
streets so to speak.
I might be wrong in thinking this but I enjoy the fact that my children
CHOOSE to be around me. I see so many kids in and out my door that will do
ANYTHING to avoid their parents and never do anything with them. I think that's sad
that a child would grow up and look for ways to see their parents as little as
possible.
Is it normal to be on your own at a young age? I was married at 17 but I
felt old already from so many life experiences and it was a relief to leave them
behind. I'm glad my children don't have to run from their home to find love
or validation.
Now, if there were living here at thirty-five, I might respond entirely
differently, especially if it was because they didn't know how to be responsible
for themselves or their families.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tim and Maureen
----- Original Message -----
In a message dated 5/23/03 12:29:19 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<< Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be
I think that kids can come home and still maintain their independance. I agree with Sandra when she says we don't know what natural is and that the rule that kids should be out on their own being adults is still school, cog like thinking.
Extended family living is still happening in some cultures and seen as normal, healthy and beneficial to all.
maureen
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[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/03 1:03:24 PM, tmthomas@... writes:
<< Westerns do not initiate their men-children. >>
Tim, no trip to Juarez to get a hooker?
No drink-til-you-puke twenty-first birthday at a bar?
(no GOOD initiations, you're right)
Women horned in on the college graduation thing, which some classes of men
had to themselves for many hundreds of years.
There was, at one time, guild "maturity," becoming a journeyman was a good
fly-up moment for a young man.
It was a really bad time to be male in the U.S. for the past 30 years or so.
I hope it's getting better. [Not that it was a bed of thornless roses for
women either, but at least the pendulum was trying to swing in their direction.]
Sandra
<< Westerns do not initiate their men-children. >>
Tim, no trip to Juarez to get a hooker?
No drink-til-you-puke twenty-first birthday at a bar?
(no GOOD initiations, you're right)
Women horned in on the college graduation thing, which some classes of men
had to themselves for many hundreds of years.
There was, at one time, guild "maturity," becoming a journeyman was a good
fly-up moment for a young man.
It was a really bad time to be male in the U.S. for the past 30 years or so.
I hope it's getting better. [Not that it was a bed of thornless roses for
women either, but at least the pendulum was trying to swing in their direction.]
Sandra
[email protected]
SandraDodd@... writes:
<< The idea that being grown requires "realistic expectations" just seems
like
more of the school-continuum-assembly-line thinking to me.>>
And that it doesn't work. You don't get a "perfect finished product", so to
speak.
<<For a kid who gets along well with his parents, the realistic expectation
of
staying at home for a while doesn't seem so evil or sinful to me.>>
No, me either, it just seems like it's not a very healthy dynamic for most
families, not for the kid or the parents.
<<And there are moms who want or need a kid to stay to help out at home (and
dads too, I'm sure, but I think of widows).>>
I'm sure there are situations where when the families stay together it's
better for everyone, not necessarily sure if a care taking role by the child is
always healthy, even if necessary, but I'm concerned with situations where
development seems to be "arrested", halted, by returning to the family.
<< I think there are more cultures on the planet where people do stay at
home,
many even after they're married and have kids, >>
That reminds me of a study where they were observing Italian families, and it
was found that a large, tight knit familiy protected them from heart disease,
compared to lonely Americans with similar diets, anyone remember that?
Americans, in particular, are generally very isolated. Where's the nearest
commune? lol
~Aimee
<< The idea that being grown requires "realistic expectations" just seems
like
more of the school-continuum-assembly-line thinking to me.>>
And that it doesn't work. You don't get a "perfect finished product", so to
speak.
<<For a kid who gets along well with his parents, the realistic expectation
of
staying at home for a while doesn't seem so evil or sinful to me.>>
No, me either, it just seems like it's not a very healthy dynamic for most
families, not for the kid or the parents.
<<And there are moms who want or need a kid to stay to help out at home (and
dads too, I'm sure, but I think of widows).>>
I'm sure there are situations where when the families stay together it's
better for everyone, not necessarily sure if a care taking role by the child is
always healthy, even if necessary, but I'm concerned with situations where
development seems to be "arrested", halted, by returning to the family.
<< I think there are more cultures on the planet where people do stay at
home,
many even after they're married and have kids, >>
That reminds me of a study where they were observing Italian families, and it
was found that a large, tight knit familiy protected them from heart disease,
compared to lonely Americans with similar diets, anyone remember that?
Americans, in particular, are generally very isolated. Where's the nearest
commune? lol
~Aimee
[email protected]
Actually, if older men HAD taken me to the hookers, maybe I would have some (nasty) connection to the community of men. But Dad and his pals were outta touch with ANY of this - "Be John Wayne and stop your damn whining!" Workaholism hurts like all the other -aholisms, because he loved his work more than us. And his work made him feel it John Wayne. Even packed a gun (fish and wildlife officer in the "wilds" of Canada).
I got zip. Nada. Nyet. Not even a man-to-man on sex. Not even a "I'm concerned your hanging out with the wrong people." He took me fishing and hunting a lot but because he wanted to go and we rarely spoke.
As for booze, I think I drank to excess once in his presence & saw him tipsy once.
No, not a bed of roses for women, but this inititation thing isn't a competition. It's just what needs to happen for most of the men I dared talk to about this topic.
My thots
Tim Thomas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I got zip. Nada. Nyet. Not even a man-to-man on sex. Not even a "I'm concerned your hanging out with the wrong people." He took me fishing and hunting a lot but because he wanted to go and we rarely spoke.
As for booze, I think I drank to excess once in his presence & saw him tipsy once.
No, not a bed of roses for women, but this inititation thing isn't a competition. It's just what needs to happen for most of the men I dared talk to about this topic.
My thots
Tim Thomas
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/03 3:22:13 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
<<. . . .-assembly-line . . . .>>
<< And that it doesn't work. You don't get a "perfect finished product", so
to
speak. >>
But they are working on the interchangeable replacement parts!
<<I'm sure there are situations where when the families stay together it's
better for everyone, not necessarily sure if a care taking role by the child
is
always healthy, even if necessary, >>
As opposed to what? Working harder to pay for a nursing home?
Our culture is truly screwed up about what's natural, what's healthy and
what's right.
I'm not taking care of my mom, though, and she's right here in town. Another
alcoholic friend of hers (who is my age) takes care of her, makes sure she
has change for laundry, a ride to the bank, a trip to the grocery store.
I feel guilty sometimes, but I really don't want drunks and their problems
and their behaviors around my kids.
Sandra
<<. . . .-assembly-line . . . .>>
<< And that it doesn't work. You don't get a "perfect finished product", so
to
speak. >>
But they are working on the interchangeable replacement parts!
<<I'm sure there are situations where when the families stay together it's
better for everyone, not necessarily sure if a care taking role by the child
is
always healthy, even if necessary, >>
As opposed to what? Working harder to pay for a nursing home?
Our culture is truly screwed up about what's natural, what's healthy and
what's right.
I'm not taking care of my mom, though, and she's right here in town. Another
alcoholic friend of hers (who is my age) takes care of her, makes sure she
has change for laundry, a ride to the bank, a trip to the grocery store.
I feel guilty sometimes, but I really don't want drunks and their problems
and their behaviors around my kids.
Sandra
Jana
AimeeL73@... writes:
because I have someone depending on me to have my shit together. I
know lots of people think teenage pregnancy is such a "disaster" but
really, I have some friends who had kids when they were teenagers and
it *really* helped them iron out the kinks in their life! they are
really efficient at raising their families and running a household and
are now in their late 20s looking toward pursuing their own interests.
Jana
> I've also been thinking about maturity, when is a child an adult,For me, the rite of passage was becoming a mother... I "feel" adult
> and society seems to be constantly pushing it back. Read an article
> the other day that psychologists are exploring the idea of a
> post-adolescent, pre-adult stage of development, that can continue
> into the 30's!!! Ya know, those people who work, but still live at
> home, those who can afford to buy nice cars and clothes, but somehow
> can't afford rent or a mortgage or their own food?
>
> The two women interviewed for the article say that because they
> aren't married, don't have kids, or haven't bought a house, they
> don't consider themselves adults. I think some kind of rite of
> passage is becoming necessary, and that graduations aren't doing it
> anymore, not from high school, and not from college, either.
because I have someone depending on me to have my shit together. I
know lots of people think teenage pregnancy is such a "disaster" but
really, I have some friends who had kids when they were teenagers and
it *really* helped them iron out the kinks in their life! they are
really efficient at raising their families and running a household and
are now in their late 20s looking toward pursuing their own interests.
Jana
[email protected]
In a message dated 23/05/2003 13:51:33 Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
lot of time talking about how obnoxious young boys are, and how violent men
are. That if women ran the world it would be so much better. I find that the
school kids I know are very divided along gender lines, and a lot of playground
play seems to be boys against girls, and taunting according to what the gender
roles are.
My very good friends are a lesbian couple who recently adopted a daughter,
and they said they did'n't want a boy because they are too violent and rebel
when they get older, doing dangerous things. I don't beleive this is a function
of being gay, just very anti-male.
I am to the point with one friend that if she makes one more comment against
boys and their '"Wild energy and loudness" that I will have to kindly discuss
it with her. This friend has one child, a girl, who is particularly anti-boy.
Any one else encounter this?
Nancy in BC, likes men, boys, women and girls, people in general.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> It was a really bad time to be male in the U.S. for the past 30 years orLately it seems that a lot of people I know are very anti-male. They spend a
> so.
>
lot of time talking about how obnoxious young boys are, and how violent men
are. That if women ran the world it would be so much better. I find that the
school kids I know are very divided along gender lines, and a lot of playground
play seems to be boys against girls, and taunting according to what the gender
roles are.
My very good friends are a lesbian couple who recently adopted a daughter,
and they said they did'n't want a boy because they are too violent and rebel
when they get older, doing dangerous things. I don't beleive this is a function
of being gay, just very anti-male.
I am to the point with one friend that if she makes one more comment against
boys and their '"Wild energy and loudness" that I will have to kindly discuss
it with her. This friend has one child, a girl, who is particularly anti-boy.
Any one else encounter this?
Nancy in BC, likes men, boys, women and girls, people in general.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/2003 4:20:23 PM Eastern Standard Time,
tmthomas@... writes:
ID, UT, TX) what Maureen describes is my DREAM. I am very envious of the
families here in WV who have many generations and cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd
cousins within walking distance.
But living in Florida for a while, I saw another situation that really
saddened me. Instead of the child growing and moving away, the parents reached
retirement age and left their hometowns and children behind. I imagine it was
wonderful at first, sort of like starting over for many of our elderly neighbors,
but then they begin to get REALLY old and they have no one to help them and
take care of them. We saw it soooo much, and more than once I held the hand of
an elderly neighbor while they cried about not seeing their grandchildren or
children for years.
It's not only the YOUNG who have bought into the expected "grow up and move
away" but the older folks too.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
tmthomas@... writes:
> I think that kids can come home and still maintain their independance. IAs someone who's family is scattered all over the Unites States (CA, OH, FL,
> agree with Sandra when she says we don't know what natural is and that the rule
> that kids should be out on their own being adults is still school, cog like
> thinking.
> Extended family living is still happening in some cultures and seen as
> normal, healthy and beneficial to all.
> maureen
>
ID, UT, TX) what Maureen describes is my DREAM. I am very envious of the
families here in WV who have many generations and cousins, 2nd cousins, 3rd
cousins within walking distance.
But living in Florida for a while, I saw another situation that really
saddened me. Instead of the child growing and moving away, the parents reached
retirement age and left their hometowns and children behind. I imagine it was
wonderful at first, sort of like starting over for many of our elderly neighbors,
but then they begin to get REALLY old and they have no one to help them and
take care of them. We saw it soooo much, and more than once I held the hand of
an elderly neighbor while they cried about not seeing their grandchildren or
children for years.
It's not only the YOUNG who have bought into the expected "grow up and move
away" but the older folks too.
Nancy
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tim and Maureen
In BC it's 19, but still no drinking til you puke. But that is the entrance exam for volunteer fire departments, here in Canada anyway - hehe.
----- Original Message -----
From: sandradodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, May 23, 2003 1:44 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood was Re graduations
In a message dated 5/23/03 1:03:24 PM, tmthomas@... writes:
<< Westerns do not initiate their men-children. >>
Tim, no trip to Juarez to get a hooker?
No drink-til-you-puke twenty-first birthday at a bar?
(no GOOD initiations, you're right)
Women horned in on the college graduation thing, which some classes of men
had to themselves for many hundreds of years.
There was, at one time, guild "maturity," becoming a journeyman was a good
fly-up moment for a young man.
It was a really bad time to be male in the U.S. for the past 30 years or so.
I hope it's getting better. [Not that it was a bed of thornless roses for
women either, but at least the pendulum was trying to swing in their direction.]
Sandra
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/2003 8:39:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
LOWRIEK@... writes:
I have to say I don't believe in my area that I see the anti-boy issue.
I was thinking well is it anti-girl? Nope not that either.
I have two boys and a girl. My daughter is 3 1/2 and is the most
challenging. I say challenging because we are going though a LOUD stage. She screams at
the drop of a hat literally.
What's that movie that plays the song "It's my party and I'll cry if I want
too"? Oh Oh I know Problem child. At times she reminds me of the teased child
at her Birthday. Now its really isn't her it's the 11 yr. old that gets her
going. Yes, he is a boy. But not a rebel or a problem child. Just taunts her.
(we are working on this SLOWLY)
When I think about the people I know I really do not think I have any one I
know that favors either boy or girl.
I was always a "Tom Boy" (at least that's what it was called when I was
little) so to me I often can relate to my boys and girl. I ride the go cart, dirt
bike and play football. I also love to shop and do hair with my 3 1/2 girl.
She likes the boy stuff just as much though.
Does your friend have a girl?
This may be the difference. Do your friends have more than one or two
children? That might be it right there..
Laura D
<A HREF="www.whimsicaltoys.com">
www.whimsicaltoys.com</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LOWRIEK@... writes:
> >>>>>>I am to the point with one friend that if she makes one more commentNancy in BC
> against
> boys and their '"Wild energy and loudness" that I will have to kindly
> discuss
> it with her. This friend has one child, a girl, who is particularly
> anti-boy.
> Any one else encounter this?>>>>
I have to say I don't believe in my area that I see the anti-boy issue.
I was thinking well is it anti-girl? Nope not that either.
I have two boys and a girl. My daughter is 3 1/2 and is the most
challenging. I say challenging because we are going though a LOUD stage. She screams at
the drop of a hat literally.
What's that movie that plays the song "It's my party and I'll cry if I want
too"? Oh Oh I know Problem child. At times she reminds me of the teased child
at her Birthday. Now its really isn't her it's the 11 yr. old that gets her
going. Yes, he is a boy. But not a rebel or a problem child. Just taunts her.
(we are working on this SLOWLY)
When I think about the people I know I really do not think I have any one I
know that favors either boy or girl.
I was always a "Tom Boy" (at least that's what it was called when I was
little) so to me I often can relate to my boys and girl. I ride the go cart, dirt
bike and play football. I also love to shop and do hair with my 3 1/2 girl.
She likes the boy stuff just as much though.
Does your friend have a girl?
This may be the difference. Do your friends have more than one or two
children? That might be it right there..
Laura D
<A HREF="www.whimsicaltoys.com">
www.whimsicaltoys.com</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/03 4:00:50 PM, tmthomas@... writes:
<< But Dad and his pals were outta touch with ANY of this - "Be John Wayne
and stop your damn whining!" >>
Are you familiar with this great book?
The Big Damn Book of Sheer Manliness
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1575440849/qid=1053745693/sr=8-1
/ref=sr_8_1/002-8162007-4450422?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I got it at a used book store. I put the amazon link there not so you could
buy it (it's more than I thought it would be!) but because there are reviews
and sample pages. It's a scream. I'm so glad we have a copy. But there's an
extensive John Wayne section, so you reminded me!
<<this inititation thing isn't a competition. It's just what needs to happen
for most of the men I dared talk to about this topic.>>
Do you worry that maybe unschooled boys are too much with women (even more
than "schoolboys")?
My boys are with lots of males in a range of ages (14 to 30), but most of
them are gamer geeks. (Not all. At the moment they're at a large SCA event, and
Kirby (in his alter ego as Lord Magnus Gunwaldtsson) got to the third round
in the first tournament he ever entered. I got there when he was done and off
borrowing a moment in a solar shower. I'll ask him Monday which two guys he
beat and who beat him.
My friend Mark (twice divorced, gay) says they took away all the things men
thought they were supposed to do and didn't give them any new stuff to do, so
all are afloat and kind embarassedly bumping into each other sometimes.
Sandra
<< But Dad and his pals were outta touch with ANY of this - "Be John Wayne
and stop your damn whining!" >>
Are you familiar with this great book?
The Big Damn Book of Sheer Manliness
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1575440849/qid=1053745693/sr=8-1
/ref=sr_8_1/002-8162007-4450422?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I got it at a used book store. I put the amazon link there not so you could
buy it (it's more than I thought it would be!) but because there are reviews
and sample pages. It's a scream. I'm so glad we have a copy. But there's an
extensive John Wayne section, so you reminded me!
<<this inititation thing isn't a competition. It's just what needs to happen
for most of the men I dared talk to about this topic.>>
Do you worry that maybe unschooled boys are too much with women (even more
than "schoolboys")?
My boys are with lots of males in a range of ages (14 to 30), but most of
them are gamer geeks. (Not all. At the moment they're at a large SCA event, and
Kirby (in his alter ego as Lord Magnus Gunwaldtsson) got to the third round
in the first tournament he ever entered. I got there when he was done and off
borrowing a moment in a solar shower. I'll ask him Monday which two guys he
beat and who beat him.
My friend Mark (twice divorced, gay) says they took away all the things men
thought they were supposed to do and didn't give them any new stuff to do, so
all are afloat and kind embarassedly bumping into each other sometimes.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/23/03 8:39:02 PM, HMSL2@... writes:
<< Does your friend have a girl?
This may be the difference. Do your friends have more than one or two
children? That might be it right there.. >>
My friend Rhiannon had a girl, a year and a half or so older than Kirby. I
just had Kirby.
Rhiannon often looked at me with a look of disdain when Kirby "acted up,"
because her daughter was demure and cooperative in every way.
A couple of years later, Rhiannon had another child. So did I.
Hers was another girl. Mine was another boy.
All these kids are teens now. But when Caiti, her #2, was two or so and
Marty was two or so, she confided in me that she and her husband use to think I
had NO idea what I was doing, since Kirby was as he was, and Lily was as she
was. But when we had our #2 set, Caiti was crazy, loud, destructive, and
generally unrepentant (way worse than Kirby had ever been), while MY #2 was every bit
as calm and cooperative as her "expert" #1.
It was just random elements of personalities.
Now that they're all older, Marty's wilder in some ways. He was a placid
baby, always just sitting and smiling and agreeing and being fascinated. Now
Kirby's Mr. Cool, rarely gets frustrated. He used up all his frustration as a
younger kid, maybe! Maybe got all the frustration he needed to experience
before he hit puberty. (And maybe karate helps him be calm too.)
Sandra
<< Does your friend have a girl?
This may be the difference. Do your friends have more than one or two
children? That might be it right there.. >>
My friend Rhiannon had a girl, a year and a half or so older than Kirby. I
just had Kirby.
Rhiannon often looked at me with a look of disdain when Kirby "acted up,"
because her daughter was demure and cooperative in every way.
A couple of years later, Rhiannon had another child. So did I.
Hers was another girl. Mine was another boy.
All these kids are teens now. But when Caiti, her #2, was two or so and
Marty was two or so, she confided in me that she and her husband use to think I
had NO idea what I was doing, since Kirby was as he was, and Lily was as she
was. But when we had our #2 set, Caiti was crazy, loud, destructive, and
generally unrepentant (way worse than Kirby had ever been), while MY #2 was every bit
as calm and cooperative as her "expert" #1.
It was just random elements of personalities.
Now that they're all older, Marty's wilder in some ways. He was a placid
baby, always just sitting and smiling and agreeing and being fascinated. Now
Kirby's Mr. Cool, rarely gets frustrated. He used up all his frustration as a
younger kid, maybe! Maybe got all the frustration he needed to experience
before he hit puberty. (And maybe karate helps him be calm too.)
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 23/05/2003 23:47:10 Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
still disdainful. The digs and misandry are irritating. And not healthy for
anyone involved.
Perhaps I am very sensitive to it, buy my husband notices it also.
Sounds like your friend figured it out. I don't think mine is having any more
children, so I will continue to be the mother of a "BOY" , and she still
makes comments about how much more connected one can be with a daughter, how much
more and better and nicer they are , and aren't I glad I have one??
Oh no, I am sounding bitter. Need a glass of wine I think, or something.
Nancy, apparently bitter in BC, better stop this rant in it's tracks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Rhiannon often looked at me with a look of disdain when Kirby "acted up,"I can't say that this little girl is demure or cooperative, but this mom is
> because her daughter was demure and cooperative in every way.
>
still disdainful. The digs and misandry are irritating. And not healthy for
anyone involved.
Perhaps I am very sensitive to it, buy my husband notices it also.
Sounds like your friend figured it out. I don't think mine is having any more
children, so I will continue to be the mother of a "BOY" , and she still
makes comments about how much more connected one can be with a daughter, how much
more and better and nicer they are , and aren't I glad I have one??
Oh no, I am sounding bitter. Need a glass of wine I think, or something.
Nancy, apparently bitter in BC, better stop this rant in it's tracks
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/03 1:17:07 AM, LOWRIEK@... writes:
<< Sounds like your friend figured it out. I don't think mine is having any
more
children, so I will continue to be the mother of a "BOY" , and she still
makes comments about how much more connected one can be with a daughter, how
much
more and better and nicer they are , and aren't I glad I have one??
<<Oh no, I am sounding bitter. Need a glass of wine I think, or something.
Nancy, apparently bitter in BC, better stop this rant in it's tracks >>
You want I should rough her up just a little?
Send her e-mail address and I shall be happy to tell her the Tale of Rhiannon
and Other People Who Overcame Ignorance. I'll do it real gentle-like, at
first.
Sandra
<< Sounds like your friend figured it out. I don't think mine is having any
more
children, so I will continue to be the mother of a "BOY" , and she still
makes comments about how much more connected one can be with a daughter, how
much
more and better and nicer they are , and aren't I glad I have one??
<<Oh no, I am sounding bitter. Need a glass of wine I think, or something.
Nancy, apparently bitter in BC, better stop this rant in it's tracks >>
You want I should rough her up just a little?
Send her e-mail address and I shall be happy to tell her the Tale of Rhiannon
and Other People Who Overcame Ignorance. I'll do it real gentle-like, at
first.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 5/24/2003 3:16:57 AM Eastern Standard Time,
LOWRIEK@... writes:
My son and I are closer than any other Mom I know with a daughter. He tells
me everything.
I think when her daughter and your son/s get older you will see that she was
wrong. Not necessarily because of the girl boy thing but her attitude.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
LOWRIEK@... writes:
> Perhaps I am very sensitive to it, buy my husband notices it also.That is soo not true though.
> Sounds like your friend figured it out. I don't think mine is having any
> more
> children, so I will continue to be the mother of a "BOY" , and she still
> makes comments about how much more connected one can be with a daughter, how
> much
> more and better and nicer they are , and aren't I glad I have one??
My son and I are closer than any other Mom I know with a daughter. He tells
me everything.
I think when her daughter and your son/s get older you will see that she was
wrong. Not necessarily because of the girl boy thing but her attitude.
Laura D
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tim and Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood was Re graduations
In a message dated 5/24/03 1:17:07 AM, LOWRIEK@... writes:
<<
<<Oh no, I am sounding bitter. Need a glass of wine I think, or something.
Nancy, apparently bitter in BC, better stop this rant in it's tracks >>
You want I should rough her up just a little?
Send her e-mail address and I shall be happy to tell her the Tale of Rhiannon
and Other People Who Overcame Ignorance. I'll do it real gentle-like, at
first.
Sandra
You guys are too funny. Thanks for the belly laugh. Just what I needed this morning.Oh and Nancy, skip the wine and go straight for the hard stuff. The tim hortons donut.
Sandra are you for hire. I got a few people you could rough up a little. Ha Ha
maureen
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
<<In a message dated 5/23/03 12:29:19 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be>>
Well I don't think there's anything wrong with kids living at home after
college. I think maybe if you are referring to young adults who come home
and don't work or contribute in any way, then we are talking about something
different. I really don't anticipate that my children would be that way.
Just from seeing what I do now, it won't happen. And any of them are more
than welcome to come home anytime. I have one possibly close to going out on
her own and I am not looking forward to it. I will be happy and excited for
her, but in all honesty, not for me.
Yesterday my husband and I were out looking at vans and started talking
about the 4th of July coming up already. I made the remark about Christmas
being her soon too. My husband casually said how the kids are getting bigger
and Tara will graduate next year and be off to college or moving out. That's
all it took and he felt bad after but still laughed at the same time. I was
in tears just at the thought. Of course him and Tara had a big laugh last
night at my expense! Tara came and hugged me and said she would never leave
the state or even our town and will move a block away just so I won't miss
her and her me!!!
Mary B
Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be>>
Well I don't think there's anything wrong with kids living at home after
college. I think maybe if you are referring to young adults who come home
and don't work or contribute in any way, then we are talking about something
different. I really don't anticipate that my children would be that way.
Just from seeing what I do now, it won't happen. And any of them are more
than welcome to come home anytime. I have one possibly close to going out on
her own and I am not looking forward to it. I will be happy and excited for
her, but in all honesty, not for me.
Yesterday my husband and I were out looking at vans and started talking
about the 4th of July coming up already. I made the remark about Christmas
being her soon too. My husband casually said how the kids are getting bigger
and Tara will graduate next year and be off to college or moving out. That's
all it took and he felt bad after but still laughed at the same time. I was
in tears just at the thought. Of course him and Tara had a big laugh last
night at my expense! Tara came and hugged me and said she would never leave
the state or even our town and will move a block away just so I won't miss
her and her me!!!
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 24/05/2003 00:34:13 Pacific Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
in her life, and wish she didn't. I just wish she didn't hate boys!!
Nancy, ate ice cream instead of drinking wine in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> I'll do it real gentle-like, atThe very worst part of it is I really love this friend.She has a lot of pain
> first.
>
in her life, and wish she didn't. I just wish she didn't hate boys!!
Nancy, ate ice cream instead of drinking wine in BC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Don't you feel our kids are socialized to move out?
Why would Tara move a block away? Why not stay home, be a whole adult, save some money.......
Why is there such a move to leave?
I wonder how that started? I know that up until fairly recently in our history - we stayed at home .....
Janis
Why would Tara move a block away? Why not stay home, be a whole adult, save some money.......
Why is there such a move to leave?
I wonder how that started? I know that up until fairly recently in our history - we stayed at home .....
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2003 2:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] rite of passage and adulthood was Re graduations
<<In a message dated 5/23/03 12:29:19 PM, AimeeL73@... writes:
Something bothers me about parents who don't think anything's wrong with
their kids coming home to live after college. I think it sets up
unrealistic
expectations about what adult life is, and can be>>
Well I don't think there's anything wrong with kids living at home after
college. I think maybe if you are referring to young adults who come home
and don't work or contribute in any way, then we are talking about something
different. I really don't anticipate that my children would be that way.
Just from seeing what I do now, it won't happen. And any of them are more
than welcome to come home anytime. I have one possibly close to going out on
her own and I am not looking forward to it. I will be happy and excited for
her, but in all honesty, not for me.
Yesterday my husband and I were out looking at vans and started talking
about the 4th of July coming up already. I made the remark about Christmas
being her soon too. My husband casually said how the kids are getting bigger
and Tara will graduate next year and be off to college or moving out. That's
all it took and he felt bad after but still laughed at the same time. I was
in tears just at the thought. Of course him and Tara had a big laugh last
night at my expense! Tara came and hugged me and said she would never leave
the state or even our town and will move a block away just so I won't miss
her and her me!!!
Mary B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
<< I think it sets up
unrealistic
unrealistic. >>
Unrealistic, as in being 30 years old and not being able or interested in
contributing to the household realities of bills, meals, etc.
<>
Exactly.
<<Where as just
living at home doesn't mean you aren't meeting adult responsiblities. You
could be paying rent (or your share of the mortgage, whatever,) buying
groceries for the family, etc. Being an adult member of the family.
friends who live at home, that are like that!
~Aimee
unrealistic
>expectations about what adult life is, and can be.As Sandra says though, if coming home is a legitimate possibilty, how is it
unrealistic. >>
Unrealistic, as in being 30 years old and not being able or interested in
contributing to the household realities of bills, meals, etc.
<>
Exactly.
<<Where as just
living at home doesn't mean you aren't meeting adult responsiblities. You
could be paying rent (or your share of the mortgage, whatever,) buying
groceries for the family, etc. Being an adult member of the family.
>>*laughing* Maybe it's just that I personally know no one, 30 year old
friends who live at home, that are like that!
~Aimee
[email protected]
tmthomas@... writes:
<< that the rule that kids should be out on their own being adults is still
school, cog like thinking.>>
Yah, you're right, I realize that now. I was so busy reacting against one
dynamic ( the spoiled adult/child) that I fell head first into the other
extreme ( out by 18) .
<<Extended family living is still happening in some cultures and seen as
normal, healthy and beneficial to all.
maureen
Because I need healthy models for this, and around me, I have none!
~Aimee
<< that the rule that kids should be out on their own being adults is still
school, cog like thinking.>>
Yah, you're right, I realize that now. I was so busy reacting against one
dynamic ( the spoiled adult/child) that I fell head first into the other
extreme ( out by 18) .
<<Extended family living is still happening in some cultures and seen as
normal, healthy and beneficial to all.
maureen
>>I'll read carefully when Sandra and other Moms with older kids post.
Because I need healthy models for this, and around me, I have none!
~Aimee
[email protected]
SandraDodd@... writes:
<<when the families stay together it's
better for everyone, not necessarily sure if a care taking role by the child
is
always healthy, even if necessary, >>
As opposed to what? Working harder to pay for a nursing home?>>
<< I feel guilty sometimes, but I really don't want drunks and their problems
and their behaviors around my kids.>>
Well, your experience is a good example. You choose not to be a caretaker.
There were reasons why it wasn't healthy for you or your family.
I am reading Anna Quindlen's One True Thing, about a woman going back home to
take care of her dying mother. I winced when she quit her job and sublet her
apartment. Considering the first chapter has her in a jail cell, I'm
thinking that it wasn't the best choice for her, but I'll reserve judgment til I
finish the book.
~Aimee
<<when the families stay together it's
better for everyone, not necessarily sure if a care taking role by the child
is
always healthy, even if necessary, >>
As opposed to what? Working harder to pay for a nursing home?>>
<< I feel guilty sometimes, but I really don't want drunks and their problems
and their behaviors around my kids.>>
Well, your experience is a good example. You choose not to be a caretaker.
There were reasons why it wasn't healthy for you or your family.
I am reading Anna Quindlen's One True Thing, about a woman going back home to
take care of her dying mother. I winced when she quit her job and sublet her
apartment. Considering the first chapter has her in a jail cell, I'm
thinking that it wasn't the best choice for her, but I'll reserve judgment til I
finish the book.
~Aimee
[email protected]
jana@... writes:
<< I
know lots of people think teenage pregnancy is such a "disaster" but
really, I have some friends who had kids when they were teenagers and
it *really* helped them iron out the kinks in their life! they are
really efficient at raising their families and running a household and
are now in their late 20s looking toward pursuing their own interests.
Jana >>
I'll agree with you on that one.
I was at the park with my son yesterday, and I was chatting with a mom, and a
group of teenagers were pushing a stroller, I don't know for sure if one of
them was the mom to the baby or not, but I said to the mom, next to me, that
was me. Pierced nose, dyed red hair, black clothes, lol, pushing a stroller.
I was 20, so not a teenager, but young.
She said, about the girl pushing the stroller, that's too young. I said,
maybe, but nothing matures you faster than being responsible for a child. I think
it's true, good or bad. And I am glad that I had Alex young, I feel like it
was meant to be, I am even still with his father *shocking* lol. It's
obviously not always a disaster. And one of the things that was good was that I
still had my idealism, which brought me to unschooling!
~Aimee
<< I
know lots of people think teenage pregnancy is such a "disaster" but
really, I have some friends who had kids when they were teenagers and
it *really* helped them iron out the kinks in their life! they are
really efficient at raising their families and running a household and
are now in their late 20s looking toward pursuing their own interests.
Jana >>
I'll agree with you on that one.
I was at the park with my son yesterday, and I was chatting with a mom, and a
group of teenagers were pushing a stroller, I don't know for sure if one of
them was the mom to the baby or not, but I said to the mom, next to me, that
was me. Pierced nose, dyed red hair, black clothes, lol, pushing a stroller.
I was 20, so not a teenager, but young.
She said, about the girl pushing the stroller, that's too young. I said,
maybe, but nothing matures you faster than being responsible for a child. I think
it's true, good or bad. And I am glad that I had Alex young, I feel like it
was meant to be, I am even still with his father *shocking* lol. It's
obviously not always a disaster. And one of the things that was good was that I
still had my idealism, which brought me to unschooling!
~Aimee
[email protected]
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< glena >>
Thanks for sharing your story, it gives me a much clearer picture of a young
healthy adult making her own way in the world, with your support. I needed to
hear that!
~Aimee
<< glena >>
Thanks for sharing your story, it gives me a much clearer picture of a young
healthy adult making her own way in the world, with your support. I needed to
hear that!
~Aimee
[email protected]
LOWRIEK@... writes:
<< Nancy, ate ice cream instead of drinking wine in BC >>
Isn't marijuana being decriminalized in BC? Soon you will have even more
options! lol
~Aimee
<< Nancy, ate ice cream instead of drinking wine in BC >>
Isn't marijuana being decriminalized in BC? Soon you will have even more
options! lol
~Aimee