Cindy

Hello to all.. I have been looking for quite a while now trying to
gather as much information as I can on unschooling.

I have a 13 y/o DS, who has struggled for a long time in public
school and decided during Christmas break to pull him out and
start "homeschooling" him. Spent hundreds of dollars on books and
supplies.. not to mention $3000.00 for new computer, software, desk..
whole, shall we say kitandkaboodle. Needless to say, the books have
hardly been used, computer used for internet and gaming mostly, oh
and don't forget cd burning. Anyway, I had this ideal picture of
what "homeschooling" was going to be and that is not what has
happened.

I had been "fighting" with him to do "work". He is totally not
interested in written work and I have recently backed off. He gets up
when he wakes up, which some days isn't until noon, he plays video
games or whatever he chooses.. but I have given up the "fight". I
have been spending alot of time on the new computer (someone here
should put it to good use.. lol) researching and learning more about
unschooling. Seems what we might need to try.

We live in NC and have to subject our children to what they call EOG
(End of Grade) testing. I have recently learned that my ds doesn't
know how to do long division and has great difficulty with his
multiplication tables and I am very stressed out over the tests.
Probably, more so than he is. There is no way around these tests and
I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on how we should handle
them. Stressed out or with a grain of salt?

I would like to apologize a hundred times for being so long-winded..
I have a problem with that sometimes. ;)

Thanks in advance for all the great advice that I am sure will come
my way!
Cindy

PS.. anyone else here from NC??

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/03 8:56:46 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cindy0766@... writes:

> We live in NC and have to subject our children to what they call EOG
> (End of Grade) testing

Welcome to unschooling!

I am also from NC. You DO NOT have to give "EOG" tests. You DO have to
give a standardized test once a year. But, it can be the test of your choice,
the "grade level" of your choice. You can give your son a first grade test
if you want. And, you do not have to send the results to the state, just
keep them on file "in case" they want to see them for one year. Many folks
are misinformed about requirements of NC for homeschooling. There are lots
of "recommendations" that the state lists, but they are NOT required.

As far as the yearly testing, per the suggestion another NC unschooler (
HEY PAM!) I give my children a test from a CD-ROM called "Children's Skills
Test" You can find them for sale on Ebay all the time, very reasonably
priced. Don't sweat it. Actually, NC is a very easy state to homeschool in.


Teresa


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/03 8:56:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cindy0766@... writes:

> We live in NC and have to subject our children to what they call EOG
> (End of Grade) testing. I have recently learned that my ds doesn't
> know how to do long division and has great difficulty with his
> multiplication tables and I am very stressed out over the tests.
>

Relax, the testing isn't that bad. There is no "grade level" you have to
test at, no threshold to meet, no reward/punishment. Just take whatever test
he wants to take and keep the results on hand for one year. That is all. It
doesn't say "End of Grade" test. There is no mention of grade on the
requirements. I let my boys pick which "grade" they want to test at. That
gives them more control. Just relax. The web site is ncdnpe.org
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/03 6:56:48 AM, Cindy0766@... writes:

<< He gets up

when he wakes up, which some days isn't until noon, he plays video

games or whatever he chooses.. but I have given up the "fight". >>

Are you familiar with the principles of aikido (at least in theory)??

Instead of thinking you "gave up," maybe if you think of it as going with his
energy, in the direction he's already moving, it will seem a postive instead
of a negative.

I think it might make you feel lots better to read here:

http://sandradodd.com/games/page

and some here:

http://sandradodd.com/articles

<<I am very stressed out over the tests.

Probably, more so than he is. There is no way around these tests and

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on how we should handle

them. Stressed out or with a grain of salt?>>

Salt it into a state of preservation!

http://sandradodd.com/tests


Sandra

Heidi

Hi Cindy!

I'm new to unschooling (Natural Learning, as I like to say ;) but a
veteran homeschooler, for the past eight years. It was only at the
beginning of this year that I ever even thought about Natural
Learning. Anyway. Even if I hadn't come to the conclusion that
unschooling is the way to go, and you were to come to me, a veteran
homeschooler with subjects and paperwork and all, asking for advice,
I would say "Take one full year off of academics altogether. Don't do
anything even remotely resembling schoolwork. Instead, build the
relationship. Do things with your son, and let him decompress.
Getting the relationship right is absolutely the best thing you can
do." I've told moms that, who have asked me in the past, even when
I've been in my most militant "Math first, then a page of writing,
and an hour of reading, and then lunch, and after that, some natural
science" scheduled mode. The first year of homeschooling, whether it
be unschooling or more structured, should be one of building the
friendship with your kids. And don't fret the academics.

peace, blessings, HeidiC

p.s. read John Holt; read John Taylor Gatto (well, they're who helped
bring me around) and read the links Sandra has recommended

--- In [email protected], "Cindy" <Cindy0766@a...>
wrote:
> Hello to all.. I have been looking for quite a while now trying to
> gather as much information as I can on unschooling.
>
> I have a 13 y/o DS, who has struggled for a long time in public
> school and decided during Christmas break to pull him out and
> start "homeschooling" him. Spent hundreds of dollars on books and
> supplies.. not to mention $3000.00 for new computer, software,
desk..
> whole, shall we say kitandkaboodle. Needless to say, the books have
> hardly been used, computer used for internet and gaming mostly, oh
> and don't forget cd burning. Anyway, I had this ideal picture of
> what "homeschooling" was going to be and that is not what has
> happened.
>
> I had been "fighting" with him to do "work". He is totally not
> interested in written work and I have recently backed off.

Betsy

**I would say "Take one full year off of academics altogether. Don't do
anything even remotely resembling schoolwork.**

Hi, Heidi --

There's something in your phrasing that makes it sound like academics
might pop back up in the second year. Is that really what you expect,
or is it just a comforting idea for curriculum users who might be very
uncomfortable plunging into unschooling without a net?

Betsy

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/2003 8:56:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cindy0766@... writes:
> Hello to all.. I have been looking for quite a while now trying to
> gather as much information as I can on unschooling.

Cindy,

I'll reiterate what I said on the message boards:

You have an unschooling conference just around the corner and in your back
yard.
The School's Out Support Live & Learn Unschooling Conference August 22-24 in
Columbia, South Carolina.

The some of the biggest names in unschooling will be there presenting. The
others'll just be hanging around! <G>

You'll won't want to miss the opportunity. And your son will be able to meet
other unschoolers. There'll be tons of fun stuff for both of you to do and
learn!

~Kelly

Kelly Lovejoy, Coordinator
Schools Out Support
mailto:coordinator@...
803-776-4849
Fax: 803-776-7006
http://www.schoolsoutsupport.org


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/21/03 10:29:21 AM, ecsamhill@... writes:

<< There's something in your phrasing that makes it sound like academics
might pop back up in the second year. Is that really what you expect,
or is it just a comforting idea for curriculum users who might be very
uncomfortable plunging into unschooling without a net? >>

I think when you're easing away from something it's not too horrible to say
that to a doubting dad or to a mom who just now almost is about to put down
the curriculum.

If people REALLY stay away from structure for a whole year and they honestly
put some effort into unschooling, few go back.

In AA when they say they're not going to drink today, it KIND of implies they
might not drink tomorrow. But they consider it a success if they get through
a day. And if they go a month or a year it makes it easier to go another day.

Unschooling is WAY better than structure and fighting and crying.

If someone is able to say "I can do this for a year and see" but would never
be able to say "I will do this forever," then the year is a good plan.

Sandra

joanne comito

Hey Cindy,
I'm from NC, too--Asheville--where are you?
My kids take the Childrens Skills Test--I think
someone else mentioned that, too--you can take it at
home and you don't have to turn the scores into
anyone--just have them on hand.

I don't like having to do testing at all since it
bothers my oldest dtr (age 11)--if she doesn't do
really well on something she takes that to mean she's
"bad" at it. I'm not always sure how to handle this.
At one point she threw herself on the couch and
refused to finish the test because she didn't know how
to multiply fractions and do long division. I told
her there would be no reason for her to know this
since she's never done it. She wasn't satisfied
w/that answer, so I finally got exasperated and told
her she either needed to accept that she didn't know
long division or, if it bothered her that much, that
she could learn how to do it.
The next day she went back to it and asked me: so you
really don't care how I do on this? I told her no,
not at all--it's just a hoop we have to jump
through--so she finished it and seemed to feel ok with
the results.

How do other people handle this kind of thing? I
think she does wonder if she isn't bad at math--she
doesn't want to learn the drill math and I don't think
it's important for her to learn it other than to show
her that she could do it if she wanted to.

Any thoughts?
Joanne
>
> We live in NC and have to subject our children to
> what they call EOG
> (End of Grade) testing. I have recently learned that
> my ds doesn't
> know how to do long division and has great
> difficulty with his
> multiplication tables and I am very stressed out
> over the tests.
>

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Heidi

Hi Betsy

I probably do sound kind of iffy...maybe because I'm in MAJOR
deschooling/nervous/what-to-do mode right now.

the point I was trying to make was, even if I weren't strongly
leaning towards and beginning to practice unschooling, I'd recommend
a year of zero academics. I am leaning to unschooling, big time, but
even in my most "school at home"ish, I made that recommendation to
anyone who asked me about it. "Take a full year off academics,
because building the relationship is by far the most important thing.
If they fall behind (I used to say) in academics, they can always
catch up. IF the relationship falls behind, it's much more difficult
to make any of it work." that's what I was trying to say.

did I make more sense this time around?

HeidiC

--- In [email protected], Betsy <ecsamhill@e...>
wrote:
>
>
> **I would say "Take one full year off of academics altogether.
Don't do
> anything even remotely resembling schoolwork.**
>
> Hi, Heidi --
>
> There's something in your phrasing that makes it sound like
academics
> might pop back up in the second year. Is that really what you
expect,
> or is it just a comforting idea for curriculum users who might be
very
> uncomfortable plunging into unschooling without a net?
>
> Betsy

Betsy

**"Take a full year off academics,
because building the relationship is by far the most important thing.
If they fall behind (I used to say) in academics, they can always
catch up. IF the relationship falls behind, it's much more difficult
to make any of it work." that's what I was trying to say.

did I make more sense this time around?

**

Hi, Heidi --

Yeah. I just get kind of nit-picky sometimes. I may even be being
overzealous about unschooling to cover up my own wobbly doubts. IRL I'm
surrounded by eclectic types and my competitive feelings DO get stirred
up. I have those "Gosh, their kids might be learning more than mine is"
freakouts. And I'm not really satisified in how I'm dealing with those
nagging worries.

Betsy

[email protected]

ecsamhill@... writes:

<< I have those "Gosh, their kids might be learning more than mine is"
freakouts. And I'm not really satisified in how I'm dealing with those
nagging worries.

Betsy >>

I had a twinge of that lately, being the end of the year with graduations and
such. I got back to the idea of how absolutely ridiculous it is that we
require and expect schools to "teach them everything they *might* ever need to
know" and then society blames the school for not making it happen, failing to
understand that not only is that a useless expectation, but impossible as well.

But in an unschooling context "everything *they* need to know" does indeed
happen. Remember that, and maybe you'll feel better?

~Aimee

[email protected]

Don't forget this, though! Those kids have also learned that
cap/gown/diploma means they don't HAVE to learn anything else unless they go to college, and
then they ONLY have to learn enough to get the grades.

Unschooled kids didn't "learn" any such nonsense.

<< << I have those "Gosh, their kids might be learning more than mine is"
freakouts. And I'm not really satisified in how I'm dealing with those
nagging worries. >>

<<I had a twinge of that lately, being the end of the year with graduations
and
such. I got back to the idea of how absolutely ridiculous it is that we
require and expect schools to "teach them everything they *might* ever need
to
know" >>