[email protected]

In a message dated 5/9/03 7:57:27 PM, [email protected]
writes:

<< Other than Sandra, are there many other parents on this List homeschooling
teenagers?

Thank You,
Susan >>

We are unschooling our 13 year old son.
Kim

[email protected]

<< In a message dated 5/9/03 6:23:20 PM, mary@... writes:

<< I am. . . and it is nothing like what people keep warning me about. I

doubt rebellion can happen in a real unschooling environmnet, at

least not the kind of rebellion we read about in young people that go

to school. >>

It's possible-to-likely that people whose kids have been in school a long
time will never have the calm and clarity that always-unschooled kids can
have. But there are other factors, certainly. Genetics, parental patience
(and calm and clarity), step situations, trauma, grief...

Sandra

*You are so right Sandra. We thought by taking our son out of school that he
would suddenly be this calm, happy kid. Wrong! Now he was always a good
natured kid at home and at school but when we took him out we then had all
that anger that he had bottled up for many years to deal with not to mention
the trauma of his accident and the situation he was in. Did he rebel against
us! It has been almost a year and it was not till this past month that we've
seen major changes in him, thanks mostly to unschooling and some changes in
parenting. He's happy now with himself and with life. He truly is one of the
nicest boys to be around. And he to holds my hand when we go out, something
he has not done in years. I thought we'd never get to where we are today
because of the amount of time he was in public school but it can happen but
it may not for some and that is sad.

Kim
________________________________________________________________________
___________________________________________________________________

jk_lenzmeier

If you don't mind, can you say what kind of parenting changes you
made?

--- In [email protected], HOMESCHOOL4GOOD@a... wrote:
> Sandra
>
> *You are so right Sandra. We thought by taking our son out of
school that he
> would suddenly be this calm, happy kid. Wrong! Now he was always a
good
> natured kid at home and at school but when we took him out we then
had all
> that anger that he had bottled up for many years to deal with not
to mention
> the trauma of his accident and the situation he was in. Did he
rebel against
> us! It has been almost a year and it was not till this past month
that we've
> seen major changes in him, thanks mostly to unschooling and some
changes in
> parenting. He's happy now with himself and with life. He truly is
one of the
> nicest boys to be around. And he to holds my hand when we go out,
something
> he has not done in years. I thought we'd never get to where we are
today
> because of the amount of time he was in public school but it can
happen but
> it may not for some and that is sad.
>
> Kim
>
______________________________________________________________________
__
> ___________________________________________________________________

[email protected]

<< From: "jk_lenzmeier" <jk_lenzmeier@...>


If you don't mind, can you say what kind of parenting changes you

made? >>

We've made many changes in our parenting. For starters we realized that we
were wrong to keep our son in school just like we were raised. You had
problems, you got hurt, you stayed in school, to leave is to run away was how
we were raised. So, we took him out and decided to keep him out and that was
a big change for us as parents. We were very loving parents, played with our
son, gave him lots of hugs and I love you, never hit, never screamed BUT we
were very strict with our son and he never once really gave us any reason why
we had to be. He had a certain bed time, a required reading time, good grades
to keep, he would have to go to bed early for speaking his mind, he had
required chores, he had to dress in clothes that we thought looked nice, and
on and on. Our son never got onto any trouble in school, he was always
considered to be the quiet, shy nerd. He would never fight back when he was
getting beat up and he would never speak up to anyone in school. No wonder
why, because of us! It was quite easy for us to change but it was hard to
realize that we needed to change. I feel the most important change we have
made as parents is that we are more open and we talk more and share more.
That was hard especially for me coming from a family of no communication and
always being told (till this day) my opinions don't matter or that I am a
poor communicator, be quiet and so on. I wonder why. All my life I've always
been scared to talk to anyone because of what they may think. Now, I talk
with my son more than before but with an open mind and a big heart and he is
soaking it up so much sometimes I swear I see smoke coming from his mouth!
We also now take the time to listen to him even when we're busy. Normally it
would be wait till later, we no longer put him off, he does come first. One
change I have not been able to master would be the guilt I feel everyday
looking at him. I can't have anymore children, I just lost a child on
Christmas, and Chris is our only one. I wish I would have unschooled him long
ago, I wish I didn't walk in my parents footsteps, something I swore when I
left home at 15 years old I would never do. I wish I can turn back time but I
can't, I wish I could have gave him a better childhood than I had but it's
too late. These feelings I can't change or maybe I can't let go of, something
I hope someday I can change, that and the embarrassment of who I used to be.
Kim

joanna514

One
> change I have not been able to master would be the guilt I feel
everyday
> looking at him. I can't have anymore children, I just lost a child
on
> Christmas, and Chris is our only one. I wish I would have
unschooled him long
> ago, I wish I didn't walk in my parents footsteps, something I
swore when I
> left home at 15 years old I would never do. I wish I can turn back
time but I
> can't, I wish I could have gave him a better childhood than I had
but it's
> too late. These feelings I can't change or maybe I can't let go of,
something
> I hope someday I can change, that and the embarrassment of who I
used to be.
> Kim

Have you told your ds all of this?
I think that helps. My older two got the brunt of my ignorance.
They were 7 and 4 before I started coming around and learning about
respectful parenting. I told my son Sam last year that I wanted to
apologize for being not so nice to him, as a toddler, some of the
time. (forced naps, time outs, hurting him with a spank or grab of
the arm...all kinds of miserable things). I needed to tell him
because I had been worse to him than my dd, who didn't push my
buttons quite as much.
Sam and I were both stubborn and butted heads quite often. We still
argued and didn't see eye to eye quite a bit, but we had come a long
way towards respecting each other and I was really starting to feel
good about the progress I had made in being more patient and
respectful of him. He died on Jan. 19 of this year. He fell through
the ice on a lagoon at a park while there with another family. One of
the things that helps me cope, is remebering how much I strived to
make our relationship better and how I knew, he knew how much I love
him, because of it. I also feel very fortunate to have found
unschooling.
Sam was 8 (almost 9), and he spent his day finding his joy. No time
wasted in school all day. No time wasted doing meaningless
worksheets to make me feel better. Infact, not having to think about
schooling him gave us all the more time to work on being together
peacefully. Everyone who knew him described him as joyful. He
relished life (sometimes with more energy than I could handle).
I'll always regret the times I could have been a WAY better mom with
him, but I try to avoid remorse because I know I saw the error of my
ways and strived to do better. That's all we can ask of ourselves.
Energy spent feeling guilty is not going to help you to be the best
of you. Your son deserves that.
I know my kids do.
Joanna

[email protected]

Wow, that was powerful. I'm so sorry for your loss, but please don't feel
guilty. Kids somehow see through our faults and love us. And the fact that
you changed says a lot; most people are too set in their ways to even
consider that there may be a different way of doing things. You have
reminded me how important life is, how disrupting public school is in the
life of a family, and why we choose to take on the sometimes difficult but
always rewarding *job* of homeschooling. I thank you for that.
Again, I'm sorry about Sam. You both sound awesome.

Sue : )


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

I really want to thank both of you for sharing such an intimate
story. I am certain that it was really difficult to do. Once you
have children, that is your biggest fear. Your stories will be ones
I remember, especially as we move more and more to relaxed parenting
<even now I am questioning some of the things I do>. Thank You, your
children will always be remembered through you and especially when
you share stories about their life. I hope I said all this right??

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], "joanna514"
<Wilkinson6@m...> wrote:
> One
> > change I have not been able to master would be the guilt I feel
> everyday
> > looking at him. I can't have anymore children, I just lost a
child
> on
> > Christmas, and Chris is our only one. I wish I would have
> unschooled him long
> > ago, I wish I didn't walk in my parents footsteps, something I
> swore when I
> > left home at 15 years old I would never do. I wish I can turn
back
> time but I
> > can't, I wish I could have gave him a better childhood than I had
> but it's
> > too late. These feelings I can't change or maybe I can't let go
of,
> something
> > I hope someday I can change, that and the embarrassment of who I
> used to be.
> > Kim
>
> Have you told your ds all of this?
> I think that helps. My older two got the brunt of my ignorance.
> They were 7 and 4 before I started coming around and learning about
> respectful parenting. I told my son Sam last year that I wanted to
> apologize for being not so nice to him, as a toddler, some of the
> time. (forced naps, time outs, hurting him with a spank or grab of
> the arm...all kinds of miserable things). I needed to tell him
> because I had been worse to him than my dd, who didn't push my
> buttons quite as much.
> Sam and I were both stubborn and butted heads quite often. We
still
> argued and didn't see eye to eye quite a bit, but we had come a
long
> way towards respecting each other and I was really starting to feel
> good about the progress I had made in being more patient and
> respectful of him. He died on Jan. 19 of this year. He fell
through
> the ice on a lagoon at a park while there with another family. One
of
> the things that helps me cope, is remebering how much I strived to
> make our relationship better and how I knew, he knew how much I
love
> him, because of it. I also feel very fortunate to have found
> unschooling.
> Sam was 8 (almost 9), and he spent his day finding his joy. No
time
> wasted in school all day. No time wasted doing meaningless
> worksheets to make me feel better. Infact, not having to think
about
> schooling him gave us all the more time to work on being together
> peacefully. Everyone who knew him described him as joyful. He
> relished life (sometimes with more energy than I could handle).
> I'll always regret the times I could have been a WAY better mom
with
> him, but I try to avoid remorse because I know I saw the error of
my
> ways and strived to do better. That's all we can ask of
ourselves.
> Energy spent feeling guilty is not going to help you to be the best
> of you. Your son deserves that.
> I know my kids do.
> Joanna

[email protected]

Thank-you Olga. What you said was perfect!
Kim



<<I really want to thank both of you for sharing such an intimate

story. I am certain that it was really difficult to do. Once you

have children, that is your biggest fear. Your stories will be ones

I remember, especially as we move more and more to relaxed parenting

<even now I am questioning some of the things I do>. Thank You, your

children will always be remembered through you and especially when

you share stories about their life. I hope I said all this right??


Olga :) >>

joanna514

--- In [email protected], "Olga" <britcontoo@a...>
wrote:
> I really want to thank both of you for sharing such an intimate
> story. I am certain that it was really difficult to do. Once you
> have children, that is your biggest fear. Your stories will be
ones
> I remember, especially as we move more and more to relaxed
parenting
> <even now I am questioning some of the things I do>. Thank You,
your
> children will always be remembered through you and especially when
> you share stories about their life. I hope I said all this right??
>
> Olga :)
>

You said everything just fine. :-)
Thanks,
Joanna

zenmomma2kids

>> It was quite easy for us to change but it was hard to realize that
we needed to change. >>

This is powerful. The change that comes within us is always the
hardest.

>>One change I have not been able to master would be the guilt I feel
everyday looking at him. I can't have anymore children, I just lost a
child on Christmas, and Chris is our only one.>>

Oh Kim, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Please know that you don't need to hold onto any guilt at all. You
are living in this moment, and this moment is good. That's where your
focus should be. Every experience your son has had up until now, has
led to this moment. Sure it could have been done differently, but it
wasn't. Let it go. You're on the path you want to be NOW. Experience
it. Love it. Be in it NOW. There's no room for guilt in a fully lived
NOW.

>>These feelings I can't change or maybe I can't let go of, something
I hope someday I can change, that and the embarrassment of who I used
to be.>>

Who you used to be is the same as Who You Are NOW. In fact, without
those past experiences, could you really be exactly Who You Are now?
It's just your behaviors that are different. Your understanding of
the world is different. You're working from a different awareness and
with a new set of personal tools. That's good. That's growth. No need
to be embarrassed. Just another step along the path. Another
opportunity to make this next step even better.

Life is good.
~Mary

zenmomma2kids

>> Sam and I were both stubborn and butted heads quite often. We
still argued and didn't see eye to eye quite a bit, but we had come a
long way towards respecting each other and I was really starting to
feel good about the progress I had made in being more patient and
respectful of him. He died on Jan. 19 of this year.>>

Oh Joanna I am so sorry for the loss of your dear, sweet Sam.

>> Sam was 8 (almost 9), and he spent his day finding his joy.>>

How beautiful for Sam. I'm sure he felt loved and honored. Thanks you
for sharing your story. It will put many things in perspective for
many parents today.

>> Energy spent feeling guilty is not going to help you to be the
best of you. Your son deserves that.
I know my kids do.>>

So true and worth repeating.

Life is good.
~Mary

[email protected]

Mary,
I really never looked at it that way. It really is just another step along
my path and it does make me who I am today. Thank-you for responding to my
posting & making me see that through your kind words and wisdom, it was nice
of you to take the time.
Kim

>> It was quite easy for us to change but it was hard to realize that
we needed to change. >>

This is powerful. The change that comes within us is always the
hardest.

>>One change I have not been able to master would be the guilt I feel
everyday looking at him. I can't have anymore children, I just lost a
child on Christmas, and Chris is our only one.>>

Oh Kim, I'm so sorry for your loss.

Please know that you don't need to hold onto any guilt at all. You
are living in this moment, and this moment is good. That's where your
focus should be. Every experience your son has had up until now, has
led to this moment. Sure it could have been done differently, but it
wasn't. Let it go. You're on the path you want to be NOW. Experience
it. Love it. Be in it NOW. There's no room for guilt in a fully lived
NOW.

>>These feelings I can't change or maybe I can't let go of, something
I hope someday I can change, that and the embarrassment of who I used
to be.>>

Who you used to be is the same as Who You Are NOW. In fact, without
those past experiences, could you really be exactly Who You Are now?
It's just your behaviors that are different. Your understanding of
the world is different. You're working from a different awareness and
with a new set of personal tools. That's good. That's growth. No need
to be embarrassed. Just another step along the path. Another
opportunity to make this next step even better.

Life is good.
~Mary