[email protected]

**If you had a child who loves to read and do
workbooks, would you school at home instead?**

No. Why would one have anything to do with the other?

I have always unschooled kids who love to read and love workbooks. (heck, I
love puzzle books, and that's how they use workbooks.) That doesn't mean they
have the slightest interest in school at home.

Owning and using workbooks doesn't make it a schooling home or an unschooling
home. Who chooses and who uses, that makes it a schooling or an unschooling
home. I buy workbooks on request (or occasionally without a request when I
find unused copies dirt cheap at rummage sales etc.) That's my last
involvement with them unless I'm requested to help, or if I step on them and
need to get them removed to a shelf somewhere. I don't assign work. I don't
structure a sequence of study - I don't care if they choose to do the
multiplication book before the addition book or choose a third grade book at
age 10. I don't grade and I don't correct unless plied with chocolate and/or
kisses. :)

I don't understand at all why "loves to read" was put in there as a possible
reason to school at home, or a negative for an unschooler? My unschooled kids
count reading as one of the biggest benefits of unschooling. They've seen
what happens to the reading desire of schooled kids (even homeschooled
schooled kids) who read on someone else's schedule and someone else's list.
They count freedom to read what they want as long as they want a great gift.
They know the joy of being able to say "This books stinks" and not having to
finish it, as well. They can spend as long as they need to finish a difficult
book, or race through without waiting to answer comprehension questions. And
they LOVE the experience of reading a great book first, of handing it to
someone else (usually me) with the directive "You have GOT to read this book!"

Last night all three of my still home kids were sprawled around the front
room at 11 pm reading. Melissa "The Lovely Bones", Sarah finished Bunnicula
and started on the second book I can't remember the name of, Pat was in the
middle of Holes - Sarah read her copy last week so now we're waiting on him
to go see the movie.

Sarah is lately the "designated reader" for a younger friend of Pat's who's
not reading yet, when they play games that need something read without the
other players knowing about it. Way cool for her after her long struggles
with reading, to have people casually asking her for help knowing she can
give it. :)

Deborah in IL

[email protected]

Deborah,

Your home sounds full of love and learning. :) I ask you, what more could a
kid ask for? [My son just finished the book, "Holes," and saw movie, too --
said it was great.]

Take care, Susan


In a message dated 5/7/2003 12:38:24 AM Central Standard Time,
dacunefare@... writes:

> **If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?**
>
> No. Why would one have anything to do with the other?
>
> I have always unschooled kids who love to read and love workbooks. (heck, I
>
> love puzzle books, and that's how they use workbooks.) That doesn't mean
> they
> have the slightest interest in school at home.
>
> Owning and using workbooks doesn't make it a schooling home or an
> unschooling
> home. Who chooses and who uses, that makes it a schooling or an unschooling
>
> home. I buy workbooks on request (or occasionally without a request when I
> find unused copies dirt cheap at rummage sales etc.) That's my last
> involvement with them unless I'm requested to help, or if I step on them
> and
> need to get them removed to a shelf somewhere. I don't assign work. I don't
>
> structure a sequence of study - I don't care if they choose to do the
> multiplication book before the addition book or choose a third grade book
> at
> age 10. I don't grade and I don't correct unless plied with chocolate
> and/or
> kisses. :)
>
> I don't understand at all why "loves to read" was put in there as a
> possible
> reason to school at home, or a negative for an unschooler? My unschooled
> kids
> count reading as one of the biggest benefits of unschooling. They've seen
> what happens to the reading desire of schooled kids (even homeschooled
> schooled kids) who read on someone else's schedule and someone else's list.
>
> They count freedom to read what they want as long as they want a great
> gift.
> They know the joy of being able to say "This books stinks" and not having
> to
> finish it, as well. They can spend as long as they need to finish a
> difficult
> book, or race through without waiting to answer comprehension questions.
> And
> they LOVE the experience of reading a great book first, of handing it to
> someone else (usually me) with the directive "You have GOT to read this
> book!"
>
> Last night all three of my still home kids were sprawled around the front
> room at 11 pm reading. Melissa "The Lovely Bones", Sarah finished Bunnicula
>
> and started on the second book I can't remember the name of, Pat was in the
>
> middle of Holes - Sarah read her copy last week so now we're waiting on him
>
> to go see the movie.
>
> Sarah is lately the "designated reader" for a younger friend of Pat's who's
>
> not reading yet, when they play games that need something read without the
> other players knowing about it. Way cool for her after her long struggles
> with reading, to have people casually asking her for help knowing she can
> give it. :)
>
> Deborah in IL
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sorcha_aisling

> >>>I don't understand at all why "loves to read" was put in there
as a possible
> reason to school at home, or a negative for an unschooler? <<<

It just seems that sometimes unschoolers make fun of reading to some
extent. The image I get of unschooled kids is that they're out
wading in a creek somewhere and building their own tree houses, or
tracking animals through the woods, or composing sonatas at seven
years old.

I guess I wondered if people chose unschooling because they had kids
who weren't interested in reading until they were ten or eleven and
who were more bodily-kinesthetic learners or spatial learners or
whatever. It seems almost like a reason for bragging among
unschoolers if their kids don't read much or never write because it
means they're doing so many other wonderful things. I just wondered
what if the kids, when they were three or four, had only wanted to
learn to read and practice writing. Would the entire course of
homeschooling had gone more toward school-at-home for those
families?

Another reason I associate reading a lot with classical or Charlotte
Mason homeschooling is because they are so reading-intenstive and
many of the books are so difficult and outdated that a child would
have to truly love reading to prefer The Iliad to playing in the
mud. And I bet if Susan Wise Bauer's kids didn't take to reading at
an early age like she did, she never would have written the Well
Trained Mind. She would have had a huge power struggle and then
probably given up and stayed in bed for a month while she cried and
felt like a failure and they caught tadpoles.

Sorcha

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2003 12:38:24 AM Central Daylight Time,
dacunefare@... writes:

>
> I don't understand at all why "loves to read" was put in there as a
> possible
> reason to school at home, or a negative for an unschooler? My unschooled
> kids
> count reading as one of the biggest benefits of unschooling.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have an extremely voracious reader here and I am also one. Unschooling
allows him to read what he wants, when he wants, for as long as he wants.
This kid won't be trying to read his books hidden behind his textbooks like I
did in school.

Amy Kagey (who was once threatened with the principal's office for trying to
read a book in school! gasp!)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Sorcha! These are all excellent points. What if the author of TWTM
had kids who weren't reader/learners?

My littlest is totally kinesthetic: tree climber, bike rider, mud
digger, water splasher, bread baking helper...and, her knowing math
that I never taught her is one of the things that convinced me, but
my oldest daughter's learning style is very much
visual/reading/writing, and her expertise in areas that she has
chosen is ANOTHER thing that convinced me. About unschooling, I mean.
Now to keep holding my breath waiting for my 10 year old boy to
manifest HIS learning style! ack.

HeidiC


--- In [email protected], "sorcha_aisling" <sorcha-
aisling@i...> wrote:
> > >>>I don't understand at all why "loves to read" was put in there
> as a possible
> > reason to school at home, or a negative for an unschooler? <<<
>
> It just seems that sometimes unschoolers make fun of reading to
some
> extent. The image I get of unschooled kids is that they're out
> wading in a creek somewhere and building their own tree houses, or
> tracking animals through the woods, or composing sonatas at seven
> years old.
>
> I guess I wondered if people chose unschooling because they had
kids
> who weren't interested in reading until they were ten or eleven and
> who were more bodily-kinesthetic learners or spatial learners or
> whatever. It seems almost like a reason for bragging among
> unschoolers if their kids don't read much or never write because it
> means they're doing so many other wonderful things. I just
wondered
> what if the kids, when they were three or four, had only wanted to
> learn to read and practice writing. Would the entire course of
> homeschooling had gone more toward school-at-home for those
> families?
>
> Another reason I associate reading a lot with classical or
Charlotte
> Mason homeschooling is because they are so reading-intenstive and
> many of the books are so difficult and outdated that a child would
> have to truly love reading to prefer The Iliad to playing in the
> mud. And I bet if Susan Wise Bauer's kids didn't take to reading
at
> an early age like she did, she never would have written the Well
> Trained Mind. She would have had a huge power struggle and then
> probably given up and stayed in bed for a month while she cried and
> felt like a failure and they caught tadpoles.
>
> Sorcha

Stephanie Elms

> Amy Kagey (who was once threatened with the principal's
> office for trying to
> read a book in school! gasp!)

The worst punishment that my parents ever used was that I was not allowed to
read for an entire weekend. They told me later that they felt like the worst
parents but it was the only thing that really would "make an impression on me".
I was too old to spank and if I was sent to my room I would just read. :o)

Stephanie E.

zenmomma2kids

>> [My son just finished the book, "Holes," and saw movie, too --
said it was great.]>>

Did you get to read it and see it too, Susan? The book and movie are
both very good. A very worthwhile experience to share with your kids.

Life is good.
~Mary

Stephanie Elms

> Sorcha! These are all excellent points. What if the author of TWTM
> had kids who weren't reader/learners?

Jesse Wise gave the keynote speech at the Maryland Homeschool conference I went to
the other month. Needless to say it was very interesting. ;oP Luckily there enough
other topics that I enjoyed myself. Plus I got to meet Joanna (from this list!) and
pick up my order from Fun Books.

What I found very interesting about Jesse Wise is that she seems to take FULL credit
for her kids being smart. She started teaching them phonics etc early so of course they
were advanced readers. She followed a classical education so of course they went on
to get advanced degrees. Everything was about what she did and very little about
what her kids learned on their own. She really seemed to take the approach that kids
are empty vessels that need to be filled up. It took all I could do not to snort
out loud at some of the things that she said (had to be good as my really good friend
who was with me is using the Well Trained Mind).

What really bugged me was that she really made it sound like it is completely up to the
parents...if they do everything like she tells you to do, you will have smart well trained
kids. So how many parents are beating themselves up because their kids do not take well
to this method? And worse how many kids are subjected to this against their will.

The one nice thing about listening to her speak is that it really hit home that unschooling
is really right to me. There was just so much I wanted to debate with her about. It
just all seemed so wrong to me....

Stephanie E.

zenmomma2kids

>>It just seems that sometimes unschoolers make fun of reading to
some extent. >>

I don't notice anyone making fun of reading. We do tend to shake our
heads at people who try to force reading lessons on younger and
younger kids. That's the part that's worthy of mockery.

>>The image I get of unschooled kids is that they're out wading in a
creek somewhere and building their own tree houses, or tracking
animals through the woods, or composing sonatas at seven years old.>>

Sometimes. Right now Casey is watching Hamtaro and Conor is upstairs
hanging out with friends before they go see X2. When I left them
upstairs they were looking through 2 books from Conor's collection,
Shaving the Inside Of Your Skull (philosophy, self-examination and
spirituality book) and Not The Bible (humor).

>>I just wondered what if the kids, when they were three or four, had
only wanted to learn to read and practice writing. Would the entire
course of homeschooling had gone more toward school-at-home for those
families? >>

Conor loves books but read later. He led us out the school system and
into unschooling. Casey actually did start writing at 3. She asked to
learn cursive at 4. I used to bribe her occasionally with the promise
of a new workbook. It never led me to school-at-home with her
however. I still just followed her interests, kept her well supplied
with materials, answered her questions and followed her pace. Still
unschooling.

>>Another reason I associate reading a lot with classical or
Charlotte Mason homeschooling is because they are so reading-
intenstive and many of the books are so difficult and outdated that a
child would have to truly love reading to prefer The Iliad to playing
in the mud.>>

LOL True story...Casey asked me to pick up The Iliad for her at the
library yesterday. It had been referenced in another book we were
reading and she wanted to check it out. I doubt she'll read it alone,
or read past a few pages even. But she'll see what it is. She'll have
exposure to Homer and Greek epics. I also brought home the Clif notes
in case she wants to just hear the story. I found a DK children's
illustrated version of The Odyssey to look at too. Conor grabbed that
up and said he had been wanting to read it. Huh? Surprise for me. LOL

FWIW We make no distinction here between books on tape, reading alone
or reading together. They all get the information from the books and
into our heads.

Life is good.
~Mary

Alan & Brenda Leonard

5/7/03 21:52:

>>> I just wondered what if the kids, when they were three or four, had
> only wanted to learn to read and practice writing. Would the entire
> course of homeschooling had gone more toward school-at-home for those
> families? >>

That's pretty what-if, since I can't imagine a three or four year old who'd
ONLY be interested in reading and writing practice. But my son read at 4
(technically -- it was just a few weeks shy of his 5th birthday), and had
been putting letters in various sequences before that. If anything, his
learning to read sent our homeschooling strongly in the unschooling
direction.

I figured if he could learn to read when all I really recall us doing was
playing and having fun, then why did I need a curriculum at all? Somebody
gave us some of the little A Becka books when he had just learned to read,
and although he read signs and books, the newspaper, and cereal boxes, he
refused to read those little books. I could see why! Curriculum is SO
stilted.

brenda

Lisa M. C. Bentley

> I just wondered
> what if the kids, when they were three or four, had only wanted to
> learn to read and practice writing. Would the entire course of
> homeschooling had gone more toward school-at-home for those
> families?

My oldest child is only 6.5. She has been reading novels for several
years. By novels, I am saying books on the same difficulty level as
"Holes" or "Harry Potter". I'm not exactly sure when she started
reading, but she was going strong when she was only 3. There is nothing
that I could have done to have stopped this. She was reading board
books at 2. It is in her nature to look at a word and just know what it
says. I think that it is genetic since I was that way as well. I toyed
with the idea of getting various curriculums for her when she was
younger, the thing that stopped me (then) was that I could see how Zoë
refused to ever learn how to do anything unless she was interested in
it. She already knew at least half the things in all the curriculums
that I looked over for kids in grades k- about 5th. The rest of the
things I knew that she would learn them if AND ONLY IF she ever had a
need and desire to learn them. She does so many new things because her
reading allows her to read about things that spark an interest in her.

Learning at someone else's schedule doesn't mesh with my daughter. For
example, she has no desire to ever ride a bicycle or skip. These are
things that kindergartners all need to do, or be threatened with failing
their grade (this happened to me even though I later skipped two grades
due to academics). Are riding a bicycle and skipping really truly
important to every single adult? I don't think so, so why does our
society try to make all children identical?

So, your answer is: NO. My daughter's learning to read at an early age
did not turn our family into a school-at-home family.

-Lisa in AZ

myfunny4

--- In [email protected], "zenmomma2kids"
<zenmomma@h...> wrote:
>
I found a DK children's
> illustrated version of The Odyssey to look at too. Conor grabbed
that
> up and said he had been wanting to read it. Huh? Surprise for me.

Hi Mary,
My kids have read "Black Ships Before Troy, The Story of the Iliad"
by Rosemary Sutcliff, twice. She also wrote "The Wanderings of
Odysseus".

Debbie

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/7/2003 4:47:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
cottrellbentley@... writes:

>
> So, your answer is: NO. My daughter's learning to read at an early age
> did not turn our family into a school-at-home family.
>

Here either:) I would say that it strenghened my belief in unschooling
because I witnessed something that my son learned to do on his own, because
of his own desire.
Amy Kagey
Email me for a list
of used homeschooling books!


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

zenmomma2kids

> Hi Mary,
> My kids have read "Black Ships Before Troy, The Story of the Iliad"
> by Rosemary Sutcliff, twice. She also wrote "The Wanderings of
> Odysseus".

Thanks. I'll look for those in case anyone has a further interest.

Life is good.
~Mary