sorcha_aisling

I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on another
message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and some
unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we all
choose our method based on a combination of our own learning styles
and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this is.

I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a verbal/linguistic
learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well in
school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke out
in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in groups
or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot in
labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me in
Chinese.

I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).

My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
development and I made charts on the computer and printed them out
for my binder.

Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use the
potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts (and
that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use the
potty).

So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room. My
son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by himself
every day.

Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
workbooks, would you school at home instead?

Sorcha

Tammy

Okay, I am new to homeschooling and new to this list, but, I'd like
to share my thoughts. I think we do need to have a teaching style
that works best for our children, no matter what we would like to
consider ourselves. Otherwise, they aren't learning as much as they
could be. And, I think all homeschooling families are a big mixture
of styles, whether they know it or not. I'm sure unschooling families
still read books, and Well-Trained Mind or others still go on hands
on field trips once in a while. The advantage to homeschooling, or
maybe we should just call it homelearning, to suit everyone, is that
we can pick and choose what we like, what works for us, and what
doesn't. I think those of us that were schooled traditionaly growing
up, feel that we need a style to call ourselves, so that we can
better explain to others what we are doing. It is kinda difficult to
explain to someone, "well, sometimes we read books, and sometimes we
watch the discovery channel, and then sometimes we just go out in the
back yard and dig for bugs". lol It's all learning, and our kids will
get all the knowledge and skills they need, one way or the other.
And, think about it, aren't we still learning? So, if they don't get
it all from us, they'll learn it themselves. And, possibly, every
year it will change, as our children change. I think little ones need
a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own more.
Basically, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just do what
works for us, our own families. We don't have to be accountable to
anyone but our kids. Learn from them, as they will learn from us, and
everyone will be happy. :)

Wow, as I re-read that I amazed myself! lol I am still trying to find
my "style" and methods, and I think I just did. I hope this all makes
sense to everyone, and maybe even helps.

Tammy


--- In [email protected], "sorcha_aisling" <sorcha-
aisling@i...> wrote:
> I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on
another
> message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and some
> unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we all
> choose our method based on a combination of our own learning styles
> and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this
is.
>
> I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a
verbal/linguistic
> learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well in
> school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke
out
> in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in
groups
> or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
> take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
> the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot in
> labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me
in
> Chinese.
>
> I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
> would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
> workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
> until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).
>
> My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
> development and I made charts on the computer and printed them out
> for my binder.
>
> Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
> development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use
the
> potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
> coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
> charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts
(and
> that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use the
> potty).
>
> So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
> forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room.
My
> son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by
himself
> every day.
>
> Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?
>
> Sorcha

[email protected]

<< It's all learning, and our kids will

get all the knowledge and skills they need, one way or the other. >>

Did you get all the knowledge and skill you needed growing up?

"One way or the other" could be used to defend lots of dubious things.

<<I think little ones need

a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they

grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own more. >>

I know for a fact that little ones do NOT need more structure, and that
structure can be the death of natural inquiry and peaceful learning.

This isn't "whatever@yahoogroups" and it's not a subsidiary of "whatever.com."

It's "unschooling-dotcom@yahoogroups," of www.unschooling.com

<<Basically, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just do what

works for us, our own families. >>

If you feel so strongly about "whatever" this list will probably not be much
fun for you, because most of us have left the world of "whatever" to really
focus on how natural learning can work in our lives.

Sandra

Tammy in MS

********* I think little ones need
a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own more
*********


I don't think little ones need structure, quite the opposite.
tammy

-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 18:40:11
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Learning styles and homeschooling methods
(long)

Okay, I am new to homeschooling and new to this list, but, I'd like
to share my thoughts. I think we do need to have a teaching style
that works best for our children, no matter what we would like to
consider ourselves. Otherwise, they aren't learning as much as they
could be. And, I think all homeschooling families are a big mixture
of styles, whether they know it or not. I'm sure unschooling families
still read books, and Well-Trained Mind or others still go on hands
on field trips once in a while. The advantage to homeschooling, or
maybe we should just call it homelearning, to suit everyone, is that
we can pick and choose what we like, what works for us, and what
doesn't. I think those of us that were schooled traditionaly growing
up, feel that we need a style to call ourselves, so that we can
better explain to others what we are doing. It is kinda difficult to
explain to someone, "well, sometimes we read books, and sometimes we
watch the discovery channel, and then sometimes we just go out in the
back yard and dig for bugs". lol It's all learning, and our kids will
get all the knowledge and skills they need, one way or the other.
And, think about it, aren't we still learning? So, if they don't get
it all from us, they'll learn it themselves. And, possibly, every
year it will change, as our children change. I think little ones need
a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own more.
Basically, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just do what
works for us, our own families. We don't have to be accountable to
anyone but our kids. Learn from them, as they will learn from us, and
everyone will be happy. :)

Wow, as I re-read that I amazed myself! lol I am still trying to find
my "style" and methods, and I think I just did. I hope this all makes
sense to everyone, and maybe even helps.

Tammy


--- In [email protected], "sorcha_aisling" <sorcha-
aisling@i...> wrote:
> I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on
another
> message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and some
> unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we all
> choose our method based on a combination of our own learning styles
> and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this
is.
>
> I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a
verbal/linguistic
> learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well in
> school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke
out
> in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in
groups
> or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
> take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
> the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot in
> labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me
in
> Chinese.
>
> I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
> would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
> workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
> until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).
>
> My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
> development and I made charts on the computer and printed them out
> for my binder.
>
> Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
> development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use
the
> potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
> coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
> charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts
(and
> that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use the
> potty).
>
> So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
> forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room.
My
> son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by
himself
> every day.
>
> Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?
>
> Sorcha


------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty Dollars
for Trying!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/KXUxcA/fNtFAA/uetFAA/0xXolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->

~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

MARK and JULIE SOLICH

>
> So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
> forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room. My
> son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by himself
> every day.
>
> Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?
>
> Sorcha

I also loved the Charlotte Mason method and we might still be doing it if
my boys had liked it more.

The fact that they hate any kind of writing and told me so every day made me
question what I was doing and look at other methods, which was when I
stumbled upon unschooling.

And in discovering unschooling, I realized that it was right not only for
them but I could see how much I needed it too.

I love that my kids are different to me and I hate that my kids are
different to me. It's fantastic and frustrating at the same time.

Anyway, do we choose unschooling because of our learning style or our
child's learning style or because it's "right"?

I think for all of those reasons. Because of our learning styles and those
of our children's it is right.

Julie
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

jmcseals SEALS

<<<Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
workbooks, would you school at home instead?

Sorcha>>>

*I* choose unschooling because it speaks to my heart. Yes, I feel it *IS*
the "right" way! However, I think it is the right way for children, not all
parents. I don't think many people are willing to commit to it deeply
enough to allow it to happen. I think there are parents who would love
nothing more than for Kindergarten to start just to get a break. I don't
know many children who, given the preferred circumstances (cooperative,
respectful, patient, loving parents), would balk at unschooling.

My Nicholette is a workbook junkie. She craves "homework" and begs for it
daily. So, yes, we 'school at home' with her. I consider it unschooling
because this is what SHE chooses. I never ask her. Her favorite store is a
local homeschooling store. She runs wild from aisle to aisle, grabbing
anything and everything. She pours through workooks, textbooks, kits, you
name it. We generally have to devote an entire day to it because she isn't
reading fluently so she asks me to read her samples of each book to decide
which she likes best. Currently, she is using a mix of Oak Meadow,
Singapore Math, Explode the Code and Getty Dubay Italics. She wants me to
read her the teacher manuals aloud, so I do. She likes taking tests to see
what she remembers. She even asked me to buy gold stars to put on the pages
she completes. She never asks me to grade them or anything, and I never
offer to. Her books are full of gold stars and she beams with pride each
time she opens them. <bwg> I suspect this is influence from her ps friends
and possibly our old ps and school at home days with her big sister. Maybe
it will pass, maybe it won't!

Haleigh is a mix. She will go months without picking up anything remotely
related to curriculum then suddenly bring in a textbook and ask me what she
should do. Because I don't want her to feel like I *expect* her to do
textbook work, I turn the question around and ask her what looks
interesting. She always has an answer, so that's what I suggest! Last
week, she was holed up in her room till the wee hours reading the first
three Harry Potter books for the first time. It took her a little under
four days to read them all. She hasn't read since. <g> This week, she has
been on a cleaning spree, cleaning anything she can get her hands on. Who
knows what next week will bring...

So, yes, I think you can school at home and still be an unschooler.
Personally, I believe it is the direction of the child that constitutes
unschooling. If you follow their lead, completely, you are allowing them to
unfold in their own way, in their own time. So many unschoolers get wrapped
up in rejecting anything remotely related to public school. Buzz words like
curriculum, lessons, and teaching scare them and send them in a defensive
frenzy. Teaching a child how to bake bread is a lesson. You're still
teaching. It's still a lesson. Heck, even the recipe is your guiding
'curriculum'! Does that mean we should throw out baking bread because it
sounds schoolish??? I wouldn't but you can answer that question for
yourself......*you*, of course, being whomever *you* are...not pointing
fingers <g>...

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tammy

You know, I think you took what I said all wrong. I don't believe in
whatever. We can never really have all the knowledge we need. We
learn new things everyday. Maybe this list isn't for me then, if I
can't express my opinion and thoughts. I thought it was very well
written.

Tammy


--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
>
>
> << It's all learning, and our kids will
>
> get all the knowledge and skills they need, one way or the other.
>>
>
> Did you get all the knowledge and skill you needed growing up?
>
> "One way or the other" could be used to defend lots of dubious
things.
>
> <<I think little ones need
>
> a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
>
> grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own
more. >>
>
> I know for a fact that little ones do NOT need more structure, and
that
> structure can be the death of natural inquiry and peaceful learning.
>
> This isn't "whatever@yahoogroups" and it's not a subsidiary
of "whatever.com."
>
> It's "unschooling-dotcom@yahoogroups," of www.unschooling.com
>
> <<Basically, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just do
what
>
> works for us, our own families. >>
>
> If you feel so strongly about "whatever" this list will probably
not be much
> fun for you, because most of us have left the world of "whatever"
to really
> focus on how natural learning can work in our lives.
>
> Sandra

Tammy

Alright, again, taken all wrong. I was going to explain myself, but
decided not to. I will leave the group, because apparetly I can not
express my opinions. Like I stated, I am not accountable to anyone
but my kids. I can't believe homelearning parents can be so narrow
minded. What I said was only what I think, and thought it was very
well written. I am very upset right now.

Tammy-leaving after this post


--- In [email protected], "Tammy in MS"
<qpwithcheese@h...> wrote:
> ********* I think little ones need
> a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
> grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own more
> *********
>
>
> I don't think little ones need structure, quite the opposite.
> tammy
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: [email protected]
> Date: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 18:40:11
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Learning styles and homeschooling
methods
> (long)
>
> Okay, I am new to homeschooling and new to this list, but, I'd like
> to share my thoughts. I think we do need to have a teaching style
> that works best for our children, no matter what we would like to
> consider ourselves. Otherwise, they aren't learning as much as they
> could be. And, I think all homeschooling families are a big mixture
> of styles, whether they know it or not. I'm sure unschooling
families
> still read books, and Well-Trained Mind or others still go on hands
> on field trips once in a while. The advantage to homeschooling, or
> maybe we should just call it homelearning, to suit everyone, is
that
> we can pick and choose what we like, what works for us, and what
> doesn't. I think those of us that were schooled traditionaly
growing
> up, feel that we need a style to call ourselves, so that we can
> better explain to others what we are doing. It is kinda difficult
to
> explain to someone, "well, sometimes we read books, and sometimes
we
> watch the discovery channel, and then sometimes we just go out in
the
> back yard and dig for bugs". lol It's all learning, and our kids
will
> get all the knowledge and skills they need, one way or the other.
> And, think about it, aren't we still learning? So, if they don't
get
> it all from us, they'll learn it themselves. And, possibly, every
> year it will change, as our children change. I think little ones
need
> a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
> grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own
more.
> Basically, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just do
what
> works for us, our own families. We don't have to be accountable to
> anyone but our kids. Learn from them, as they will learn from us,
and
> everyone will be happy. :)
>
> Wow, as I re-read that I amazed myself! lol I am still trying to
find
> my "style" and methods, and I think I just did. I hope this all
makes
> sense to everyone, and maybe even helps.
>
> Tammy
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "sorcha_aisling" <sorcha-
> aisling@i...> wrote:
> > I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on
> another
> > message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and
some
> > unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we
all
> > choose our method based on a combination of our own learning
styles
> > and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this
> is.
> >
> > I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a
> verbal/linguistic
> > learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well
in
> > school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke
> out
> > in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in
> groups
> > or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
> > take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
> > the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot
in
> > labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me
> in
> > Chinese.
> >
> > I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
> > would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
> > workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
> > until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).
> >
> > My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
> > development and I made charts on the computer and printed them
out
> > for my binder.
> >
> > Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
> > development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use
> the
> > potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
> > coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
> > charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts
> (and
> > that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use
the
> > potty).
> >
> > So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I
was
> > forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> > wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> > Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> > education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> > parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room.
> My
> > son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by
> himself
> > every day.
> >
> > Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> > because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> > because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> > workbooks, would you school at home instead?
> >
> > Sorcha
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
~-->
> Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty
Dollars
> for Trying!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/KXUxcA/fNtFAA/uetFAA/0xXolB/TM
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
-~->
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line!
~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
email the
> moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@e...), or the list owner,
> Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an
> email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Olga

Sorcha,

I was just like you in school. I could filter through material
quickly, ace the tests. etc. When I first looked at unschooling, I
loved the concept but was too scared to trust my kids. I bought the
workbooks and began planning our units. Well, my son would have no
part of it. He would get through a few letters in the handwriting
and he was falling out of the chair, crying, etc. To be honest if he
had "taken" to the traditional way of schooling then I probably would
not have looked more into unschooling. Now, maybe eventually I would
have found it because I was always drawn to it. But ultimately
making the decision to trust him has been my best although I struggle
daily with my "schooly" side. That "schooly" part of me would be
much happier if he would just do the workbooks. But I know this is
the better path and in the long run easier. For now, I think I am
the one seriously deschooling myself!

Olga :)

--- In [email protected], "sorcha_aisling" <sorcha-
aisling@i...> wrote:
> I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on
another
> message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and some
> unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we all
> choose our method based on a combination of our own learning styles
> and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this
is.
>
> I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a
verbal/linguistic
> learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well in
> school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke
out
> in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in
groups
> or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
> take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
> the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot in
> labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me
in
> Chinese.
>
> I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
> would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
> workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
> until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).
>
> My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
> development and I made charts on the computer and printed them out
> for my binder.
>
> Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
> development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use
the
> potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
> coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
> charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts
(and
> that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use the
> potty).
>
> So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
> forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room.
My
> son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by
himself
> every day.
>
> Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?
>
> Sorcha

Tammy Thompson

I was only saying what I think, I don't think I slammed you.
sorry.
Tammy in MS


----- Original Message -----
From: "Tammy" <mrs_claus28@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 8:39 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Learning styles and homeschooling methods
(long)


> Alright, again, taken all wrong. I was going to explain myself, but
> decided not to. I will leave the group, because apparetly I can not
> express my opinions. Like I stated, I am not accountable to anyone
> but my kids. I can't believe homelearning parents can be so narrow
> minded. What I said was only what I think, and thought it was very
> well written. I am very upset right now.
>
> Tammy-leaving after this post
>
>
> --- In [email protected], "Tammy in MS"
> <qpwithcheese@h...> wrote:
> > ********* I think little ones need
> > a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
> > grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own more
> > *********
> >
> >
> > I don't think little ones need structure, quite the opposite.
> > tammy
> >
> > -------Original Message-------
> >
> > From: [email protected]
> > Date: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 18:40:11
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Learning styles and homeschooling
> methods
> > (long)
> >
> > Okay, I am new to homeschooling and new to this list, but, I'd like
> > to share my thoughts. I think we do need to have a teaching style
> > that works best for our children, no matter what we would like to
> > consider ourselves. Otherwise, they aren't learning as much as they
> > could be. And, I think all homeschooling families are a big mixture
> > of styles, whether they know it or not. I'm sure unschooling
> families
> > still read books, and Well-Trained Mind or others still go on hands
> > on field trips once in a while. The advantage to homeschooling, or
> > maybe we should just call it homelearning, to suit everyone, is
> that
> > we can pick and choose what we like, what works for us, and what
> > doesn't. I think those of us that were schooled traditionaly
> growing
> > up, feel that we need a style to call ourselves, so that we can
> > better explain to others what we are doing. It is kinda difficult
> to
> > explain to someone, "well, sometimes we read books, and sometimes
> we
> > watch the discovery channel, and then sometimes we just go out in
> the
> > back yard and dig for bugs". lol It's all learning, and our kids
> will
> > get all the knowledge and skills they need, one way or the other.
> > And, think about it, aren't we still learning? So, if they don't
> get
> > it all from us, they'll learn it themselves. And, possibly, every
> > year it will change, as our children change. I think little ones
> need
> > a little more structure, to start out their learning, but as they
> > grow, and become more independant, they can go off on thier own
> more.
> > Basically, it all comes down to the fact that we need to just do
> what
> > works for us, our own families. We don't have to be accountable to
> > anyone but our kids. Learn from them, as they will learn from us,
> and
> > everyone will be happy. :)
> >
> > Wow, as I re-read that I amazed myself! lol I am still trying to
> find
> > my "style" and methods, and I think I just did. I hope this all
> makes
> > sense to everyone, and maybe even helps.
> >
> > Tammy
> >
> >
> > --- In [email protected], "sorcha_aisling" <sorcha-
> > aisling@i...> wrote:
> > > I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on
> > another
> > > message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and
> some
> > > unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we
> all
> > > choose our method based on a combination of our own learning
> styles
> > > and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this
> > is.
> > >
> > > I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a
> > verbal/linguistic
> > > learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well
> in
> > > school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke
> > out
> > > in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in
> > groups
> > > or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
> > > take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
> > > the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot
> in
> > > labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me
> > in
> > > Chinese.
> > >
> > > I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
> > > would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
> > > workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
> > > until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).
> > >
> > > My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
> > > development and I made charts on the computer and printed them
> out
> > > for my binder.
> > >
> > > Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
> > > development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use
> > the
> > > potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
> > > coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
> > > charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts
> > (and
> > > that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use
> the
> > > potty).
> > >
> > > So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I
> was
> > > forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> > > wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> > > Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> > > education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> > > parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room.
> > My
> > > son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by
> > himself
> > > every day.
> > >
> > > Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> > > because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> > > because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> > > workbooks, would you school at home instead?
> > >
> > > Sorcha
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------
> ~-->
> > Make Money Online Auctions! Make $500.00 or We Will Give You Thirty
> Dollars
> > for Trying!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/KXUxcA/fNtFAA/uetFAA/0xXolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> -~->
> >
> > ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line!
> ~~~~
> >
> > If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please
> email the
> > moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@e...), or the list owner,
> > Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@h...).
> >
> > To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
> address an
> > email to:
> > [email protected]
> >
> > Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
> >
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
> the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
> owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

jmcseals SEALS

Tammy,

May I gently suggest *not* leaving the group just yet?? There are hundreds
of people on this list to glean knowledge and ideas from so don't dismiss
everyone! Speaking from my own experience, if you stick it out, you just
might appreciate comments that smart in the beginning. Believe me, I've
been there! <bg> While it is quite possible someone may misunderstad what
you said, you may find that later in your unschooling journey, you just may
agree with them! That's happened to me, too!

Then again, there will always be someone who disagrees with you and you
them. Don't sweat it!

Stick around, read and learn and most of all, keep an open mind!

Jennifer





You know, I think you took what I said all wrong. I don't believe in
whatever. We can never really have all the knowledge we need. We
learn new things everyday. Maybe this list isn't for me then, if I
can't express my opinion and thoughts. I thought it was very well
written.

Tammy

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

jmcseals SEALS

Boy! After reading her next email, I retract my previous statement. If
someone can't stay on a list simply because another person disagrees with
what they said in a non-personal manner....no harm done by leaving....

Jennifer

_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heather Woodward

If you had a child who loves to read and do
workbooks, would you school at home instead?

No -because when you find them hiding out behind the toy box -dying to finish the book they are reading (which is not at all school-related) before you find them and try to have them read about the constitution - you realize there is a great gulf between reading what you love - because you love it and reading because it is on the curriculum list. ;-)

This was a particular ah-ha moment for me and my daughter ... and I remembered myself in 6th grade sneaking "Pet Cemetery" by Stephen King into my class and 'hiding' it in my school book - pretending to be listening when instead I was engrossed in this book. I was often annoyed by the time I had to 'waste' when I could be reading. Although the educational value found in Pet Cemetery could certainly be debated!

I have read some of Charlotte Mason's books - and I love the way she describes reading books that the author wrote because they had a purpose for writing them ( as opposed to 'readers') - Sometimes though I still read books that really don't add anything to my intellect other than enjoyment.

My 4 year old loves workbooks. We have a K-1 Math book I got at a yard sale - and all the problems are in boxes. She just colors in all of the boxes. She loves workbooks - but not in the way the were meant to be used ;-)

Heather


----- Original Message -----
From: sorcha_aisling
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 7:16 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Learning styles and homeschooling methods (long)


I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on another
message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and some
unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we all
choose our method based on a combination of our own learning styles
and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this is.

I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a verbal/linguistic
learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well in
school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke out
in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in groups
or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot in
labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me in
Chinese.

I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).

My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
development and I made charts on the computer and printed them out
for my binder.

Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
development. He didn't walk "on time", or talk "on time", or use the
potty "on time". Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts (and
that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use the
potty).

So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room. My
son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by himself
every day.

Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
workbooks, would you school at home instead?

Sorcha


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sorcha_aisling

Heather,

I read a lot of Stephen King when I was in school too. I'd read
during study hall, and at home I'd pretend I had a ton of homework
and close my bedroom door and read. And I *did* learn a lot from his
books. One thing I learned was that the skills to be a
technically "good" writer and the skills to be a popular author
aren't the same skills.

I guess that's one serious downside to a Charlotte Mason education --
with all the wonderful books that are published each year, it would
be a shame to stick to a reading list of dusty old books with archaic
language and characters that modern kids can't relate to. I'm not
sure that was her intention; if she were alive today perhaps her
suggested reading lists would look quite different.

That's a problem with classical education too. Would ten year old
kids really get more out of reading Homer than Harry Potter? I
seriously doubt it. I went through a phase when I was about ten when
I wanted to read all the "classics" (by classics I meant Charles
Dickens and Treasure Island). A few years ago I picked up Great
Expectations and realized that most of it went completely over my
head when I was ten. I remembered the story but I didn't "get" most
of it.

Sorcha

Heather Woodward

A few years ago I picked up Great
Expectations and realized that most of it went completely over my
head when I was ten. I remembered the story but I didn't "get" most
of it.


I did the same with Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Fin. I am enjoying them much more as an adult than I ever did as a kid. The fun thing is that the copy I have was my husband's from school and he had to underline all the "hard words'. Some of those words are never used today - and others kind of grew on you as you heard them used them in everyday life. I would venture to say that he didn't learn that vocabulary from school! My 8 year old enjoys the read aloud but I don't think she would pick it up herself.

I went through a Danielle Steele - Trashy Romance Novel phase when I was in High School. I wouldn't enjoy those books now as I don't find them "good" writing any longer. Not that they were good writing then either ;-) But I just finished Lovely Bones and loved it!

In any case - we do enjoy many things that are considered classic literature - however we do read our share of Calvin & Hobbes and Captain Underpants. ( I hate these - but my children love them - luckily for them my husband finds them funny...) and my 5 year old is way into any kind of non-fiction regarding construction, building, and robots. I think we have completely exhausted the library supply of these!

I tried following a unit study approach 2 years ago. It was Life in America - based on US History. They had a rather extensive list of books to read - drawing a lot from the American Girl books. We found we would get off on a tangent and just sit and read the whole book - rather than read the 2 chapters that were suggested and do the activity. It finally came down to my daughter really just not having any interest in the revolutionary war. So from that point we just stopped. She now loves the show Liberty's Kids - but I think the curriculum approach got kind of dry. The American Girl books were fun- I thought the whole set -up of this curriculum was cool- but found myself falling into the structure of having to complete the next lesson on guns - even if she hated it! I then realized this wasn't learning!

I read the Well Trained Mind as well and really thought it sounded wonderful. Some of the ideas from the book have been incorporated into life. We have the book 'English from the Roots Up" and write a root word on our wipe off board once a week. We also like the game Rummy Roots. - but this is fun! The overall structure of the approach was rather daunting to me.

Charlotte Mason placed a lot of emphasis on nature as well - and that has played a lot into our day. We have been actively bird watching. I have been writing down the types of birds we see in the back of my bird book. My 5y ds now writes birds down as well. It will take him so long to write 'Blue Jay' but he really wants to do this! He walks around with a clipboard and asks how to spell things. He doesn't get all the letters correct - but I am finding it so exciting to see him learning - without any phonics lessons, or workbooks etc. but because he feels a need to write down whatever he finds important.

So overall, I can see how some of the ideas in these books are good ones - I also can't see us following anything like this structurally because it creates too much stress - and then when life happens -or interests change - it just doesn't work - at least for us. Maybe others have found it to be different -

Heather


----- Original Message -----
From: sorcha_aisling
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:31 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Learning styles and homeschooling methods (long)


Heather,

I read a lot of Stephen King when I was in school too. I'd read
during study hall, and at home I'd pretend I had a ton of homework
and close my bedroom door and read. And I *did* learn a lot from his
books. One thing I learned was that the skills to be a
technically "good" writer and the skills to be a popular author
aren't the same skills.

I guess that's one serious downside to a Charlotte Mason education --
with all the wonderful books that are published each year, it would
be a shame to stick to a reading list of dusty old books with archaic
language and characters that modern kids can't relate to. I'm not
sure that was her intention; if she were alive today perhaps her
suggested reading lists would look quite different.

That's a problem with classical education too. Would ten year old
kids really get more out of reading Homer than Harry Potter? I
seriously doubt it. I went through a phase when I was about ten when
I wanted to read all the "classics" (by classics I meant Charles
Dickens and Treasure Island). A few years ago I picked up Great
Expectations and realized that most of it went completely over my
head when I was ten. I remembered the story but I didn't "get" most
of it.

Sorcha


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor



~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5-6-2003 10:18:58 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
bacwoodz@... writes:

> he had to underline all the "hard words'. Some of those words are never used
> today - and others kind of grew on you as you heard them used them in
> everyday life. I would venture to say that he didn't learn that vocabulary
> from school!

This reminds me of a story I heard about *Clockwork Orange* Two groups of
students were given the book; one group had a glossary and one group didn't.
Guess who had the best comprehension of the Russian vocabulary? hee hee it
was the kids *without* the glossary. Their understanding had to come from
reading, not from *looking up the answers*. Hmmm kinda like unschooling:
answers come from living, not from reading! <bwg>
diana,
The wackiest widow westriver...
“I'm just a human being trying to make it in a world that is very rapidly
losing it's understanding of being human" John Trudell


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

Very interesting, Sorcha. I know I, myself, have chosen
homeschooling because it is a situation that my son is more comfortable with.
We have a relaxed pace around our home. Sometimes he works out of
workbooks, and that' s because he likes that approach and enjoys it. It is
conversation and analysis that are so difficult for him. I am contemplating
homeschooling my other son (11 y/o) when we move in June (to Florida). It
would be an ideal time to start, since he would be having to begin a new
school, anyway, but I will need to hook up with some groups there, so he can
make friends. . .
Susan

In a message dated 5/6/2003 6:19:35 PM Central Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:

> I've been pondering this ever since an argument broke out on another
> message group between some Well-Trained Mind homeschoolers and some
> unschoolers, and the last comment in the discussion was that we all
> choose our method based on a combination of our own learning styles
> and our children's learning styles. I was wondering how true this is.
>
> I was thinking about the way I learned, and I was a verbal/linguistic
> learner with just enough logical/mathematical ability to do well in
> school. For me, reading is the key to learning. I always broke out
> in hives when I had a teacher who preferred to have us work in groups
> or do projects or play games. I just wanted to read the book and
> take the test and that's that. Even in college, I did well in
> the "lecture" portion of science classes but I was such an idiot in
> labs that one T.A. forgot his English and started screaming at me in
> Chinese.
>
> I knew I wanted to homeschool before I had kids, and I assumed it
> would be all the things I loved about school -- lots of books and
> workbooks (I even bought workbooks for K-6 and kept them in a box
> until finally the last time we moved I threw them in a dumpster).
>
> My son had his own reality. I had all the books about child
> development and I made charts on the computer and printed them out
> for my binder.
>
> Well, he didn't do anything according to the schedule of child
> development. He didn't walk "on time," or talk "on time," or use the
> potty "on time." Meanwhile, he was exploring his environment and
> coming up with all kinds of great stuff that wasn't even on the
> charts. He was about two when I threw away the books and charts (and
> that was before I even knew how late he'd actually talk or use the
> potty).
>
> So because of the clash between his learning style and mine, I was
> forced to explore multiple intelligences and unschooling. But I
> wonder ... if he was more like me, maybe I'd be one of the Well-
> Trained Mind parents, or Charlotte Mason (that's the kind of
> education I wish I'd had!). If I was homeschooled, I'd want my
> parents to give me a huge stack of books and send me to my room. My
> son would be devastated if he had to spend time in a room by himself
> every day.
>
> Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?
>
> Sorcha
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
> Rent DVDs from home.
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sorcha_aisling

>>>answers come from living, not from reading!<<<

I think this was the cruelest thing schooling did to me. When I got
out of school I made a lot of mistakes, had no idea how to run my
life. I was in way over my head in the "real world" and ever time I
failed another "test" I kept waiting for someone to tell me what the
answers should have been. Or I'd be way too indecisive, wishing I
could look in the back of the book and find out what the answer was
supposed to be. It took a long time to realize that life is not
school and there aren't cut and dry answers to everything. It took a
long time to develop judgement of my own. And it was hard coming to
terms with the fact that when I made a mistake there wasn't going to
be a right answer written in red and passed back to me.

Sorcha

moonstarshooter

> Does anyone have any insight into this? Do we choose unschooling
> because of our learning style or our child's learning style or
> because it's "right"? If you had a child who loves to read and do
> workbooks, would you school at home instead?
>
> Sorcha

I have a child who "loves to read and do workbooks" and I choose to
unschool. We did do the school-at-home method for 2 months, and
while she loved it, I got very bored with it. And I do have to admit
I LOVE looking at curricula. I loved workbooks and flashcards and
wall charts. But I did not like going by the "scripts" that the
teachers' manuals have. It didn't feel like teaching, it felt like
parroting.

The main reason I decided I would homeschool (before I even had my
daughter) was because I knew that though I always made A's in school,
I never was remotely challenged to meet my potential. When I
graduated from my community college, I was offered a full-tuition
scholarship to New College in Sarasota. That is an "honors" college
where there are no grades, you design your own degree, and study what
you choose. The teachers are mainly there for support and guidance
when asked for it. (At least that is what the college claimed to be,
I never went or knew anyone who went...I chose instead to move to NC
and get married.)

I wanted so badly to go to that college, because I felt like some
actual learning might take place there. But anyway, I ended up
going to UNC-Chapel Hill and majoring in a field
where the teachers (and I use that term loosely) are there to do
their research, and oh, they have to teach a pesky class to get their
pay. It was a real awakening, because they certainly had no desire
to teach. You basically had to teach yourself. Boy did I suck at
that. (Physics and differential equations are kinda hard things to
start self-learning.) So I knew then and there that any child of
mine would not be so dependent upon being spoon-fed information.

Fast-forward to the A Beka months. Can you say spoon-fed with a
vengeance? My daughter craves being "taught." She loves it. I love
teaching her. And that is why I choose to unschool. Life is not
about being spoon-fed. You don't find the best things in life until
you pick up your plate and lick it. I want to see her smile at me
with pudding on her forehead. That is where true living (and
learning) begins.

And I can't finish this post without also saying that I unschool
because I have found a kinship in this group unlike any other in the
homeschool community. You girls cuss. Many of you listened to heavy
metal in the eighties. Every sentence is not followed by, "Praise
God." And here we are expected to THINK, not just mindlessly
babble. I feel like I fit in with this crowd. So to some extent, it
seems many of us who have chosen unschooling may or may not have the
same learning style, but there is certainly a personality style that
seems to permeate at least the more vocal members of this group.

Interesting topic! Interesting group. Life is good.
Tory

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/03 7:24:52 PM, jmcseals@... writes:

<< Buzz words like
curriculum, lessons, and teaching scare them and send them in a defensive
frenzy. Teaching a child how to bake bread is a lesson. >>

Not if you were going to bake bread anyway. Then it's life. And if your
child is watching or helping and can stay or go as she wishes, she's learning
from life.

If people keep the "buzz words" they also keep the concepts and the baggage
and the expectations. There are serious and profound advantages to moving
from curriculum/lessons/teaching to life/opportunities/learning.

It's not the other side of the same coin. One is limited and prescribed and
focussed on the teacher. The other is real, unlimited, and focusses on the
learner.

Sandra

jmcseals SEALS

Hi Tory!

Ok, is your scholarship transferable??? Cause I want IN on that college!!
I've never even heard of such a thing! I've been itching to go back to
school. It's taken me 12 years to attain 'sophomore' status because I only
enjoy it for so long. I'm in one of those schoolish phases where I want to
feel all smart and nerdy for a little while. The BEST class I've ever taken
was a microbiology class at our local junior college. The Prof would waltz
in, turn out the lights and start the most bizarre slide shows. We'd all
sit there mesmerized by the grossest things...it was great! If anyone ever
fell asleep in class, he would actually make us all whisper so they could
sleep! THEN, he'd hold Saturday classes for make-up in case any of us
happened to snooze on the clock. He always thought the best part of school,
for him, was Kindergarten, because in Kindy, you could sleep, play and have
snacks! LOL So, we all took turns bringing snacks to every class. He'd
cover up the "No Food or Drinks" sign with an "important" memo and tell us
to hide it if anyone came in.

It all sounds so childish, but I learned more in that class than any other
in my LIFE! I was 16 with a new baby (quit high school and got my GED) and
he even let me bring her to class with me! If all teachers were like that,
we'd have kids churning out degrees like crazy! If they only knew.......

Jennifer



And I can't finish this post without also saying that I unschool
because I have found a kinship in this group unlike any other in the
homeschool community. You girls cuss. Many of you listened to heavy
metal in the eighties. Every sentence is not followed by, "Praise
God." And here we are expected to THINK, not just mindlessly
babble. I feel like I fit in with this crowd. So to some extent, it
seems many of us who have chosen unschooling may or may not have the
same learning style, but there is certainly a personality style that
seems to permeate at least the more vocal members of this group.

Interesting topic! Interesting group. Life is good.
Tory

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/03 10:24:20 PM, HaHaMommy@... writes:

<< Their understanding had to come from

reading, not from *looking up the answers*. Hmmm kinda like unschooling:

answers come from living, not from reading! <bwg> >>

Ten years ago, I was in correspondence with another homeschooling mom,
structured, Christian unschooler from Illinois. (The family moved, and
divorced, and are not in that state now, and not homeschooling, but that's
not the story.)

The mom had joined the SCA but was far from experienced people who could meet
her. I made her my apprentice (nonsense for people who don't know the SCA,
but you can gloss over it like a weird phrase in a Dickens novel and just
keep going <g>).

One of the things I gave her was a little hand-made book which was a list of
virtues and concepts, one calligraphed on each page, by me, book by me, in a
little pouch I made for it. I asked her to consider those things and look
for examples of them in her everyday life.

A month or two later I saw her and she showed me the little book. She had
looked each word up in the dictionary and written out the definition.

That's NOT at all what I had hoped for her to do or learn.

[I shuddered just now, remembering that.]


Sandra

jmcseals SEALS

<< Buzz words like
curriculum, lessons, and teaching scare them and send them in a defensive
frenzy. Teaching a child how to bake bread is a lesson. >>

Not if you were going to bake bread anyway. Then it's life. And if your
child is watching or helping and can stay or go as she wishes, she's
learning
from life.>>>

I agree. Now don't jump me for doing this, okay? <bg> Just for sh**s and
giggles, I looked up the word lesson. Of course, there are various
interpretations depending upon usage, but here goes:

Lesson: new or better knowledge: some useful knowledge or sense that results
from direct experience

Now, I'm not calling my kids to the table saying, "Ok children, today we are
going to learn how to make bread!" I may decide to make bread today and
more likely than not, at least two of the girls want to come in and help.
The excitement spreads and I end up with five sets of hands ready to knead.
Haleigh wants help in understanding how to read the recipe. Nicholette
wants to knead but isn't sure how. Lauren wants to break eggs and Hannah
and Ethan are purely interested in how much flour it takes to cover the
entire kitchen. By the time the dough goes into the oven, Haleigh and
Nicholette are the only two still aware of the fact that we are making
bread. The other kids are making car tracks in the floury floor.

So, in the definition above of 'lesson', all the kids have had their own
making of a 'lesson' in baking bread. In this sense, I still see it as a
buzz word. I find that in the ps community, they think they *own* the word
'learn' as well. I'm sure everyone here has probably heard at least one
person say, in response to 'we home/unschool', "How will they LEARN blah,
blah, blah???" As if being in ps was the only way to 'learn' anything! We
(unschoolers) just happen to hold on to that particular word and don't
solely connect it with "school".

Yes, I can see that those new to unschooling (and maybe even some of the
vets) may still hold on to the ps baggage associated with those words. But
personally, I can see the "lessons" in learning without specifically having
to verbalize or analyze them as such. For all intents and purposes here,
though, I am willing to work on excluding them from my vocabulary for the
sake of those who cannot make the distinctions.

I'm not trying to cause another uproar, just attempting to explain the
meaning as I see it, use it and understand it.

Jennifer, grabbing the umbrella :)






If people keep the "buzz words" they also keep the concepts and the baggage
and the expectations. There are serious and profound advantages to moving
from curriculum/lessons/teaching to life/opportunities/learning.

It's not the other side of the same coin. One is limited and prescribed and
focused on the teacher. The other is real, unlimited, and focusses on the
learner.

Sandra

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mark & Kristin Shields

Heather,
I had similar experiences. We dabbled in Waldorf homeschooling for my daughter's K year. Mostly we did circle time and really got into the seasonal celebrations. I've always loved celebrating the seasons, but I learned about new ones I hadn't heard of before like midsummer and also found some new traditions to add to our regular celebrations. That was a wonderful thing to learn about. Now, we don't follow anything else from Waldorf, but those things we learned about have enriched our family ever since.

A couple of years ago I read some information about Charlotte Mason homeschooling. Although we never implemented any of the techniques in a structured way, I was impressed with the emphasis on nature study. I am a field biologist by training, but hadn't done much since the kids were born. So, I started keeping a nature journal for my own benefit. Now my daughter has one as well, but she works on it in her own way and time. We have a great time getting out our journals, pens and paints and getting out in nature.

I am thankful that I found out about these things because they have enhanced my life. I think in that way they have become interesting to my children, but I didn't necessarily plan on that happening.

Kristin

-----Original Message-----
From: Heather Woodward [SMTP:bacwoodz@...]

I read the Well Trained Mind as well and really thought it sounded wonderful. Some of the ideas from the book have been incorporated into life. We have the book 'English from the Roots Up" and write a root word on our wipe off board once a week. We also like the game Rummy Roots. - but this is fun! The overall structure of the approach was rather daunting to me.

Charlotte Mason placed a lot of emphasis on nature as well - and that has played a lot into our day. We have been actively bird watching. I have been writing down the types of birds we see in the back of my bird book. My 5y ds now writes birds down as well. It will take him so long to write 'Blue Jay' but he really wants to do this! He walks around with a clipboard and asks how to spell things. He doesn't get all the letters correct - but I am finding it so exciting to see him learning - without any phonics lessons, or workbooks etc. but because he feels a need to write down whatever he finds important.

So overall, I can see how some of the ideas in these books are good ones - I also can't see us following anything like this structurally because it creates too much stress - and then when life happens -or interests change - it just doesn't work - at least for us. Maybe others have found it to be different -

Heather


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/03 9:21:20 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mjsolich@... writes:

> Anyway, do we choose unschooling because of our learning style or our
> child's learning style or because it's "right"?
>
> I think for all of those reasons. Because of our learning styles and those
> of our children's it is right.
>
>

I believe that no matter what my children's learning style was I would be
unschooling. For me it is more than just a method of getting information.
It is the freedom my children have to choose, what, when, why and how they
learn.

I believe when a group of homeschoolers is talking about curriculum or
different "school at home" methods it is easy to say you have to find what
method works for you and your family, and for your children's learning style.
But when talking about unschooling I think it can fit with any learning
style.

Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 5/6/03 9:24:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmcseals@...
writes:

> . So many unschoolers get wrapped
> up in rejecting anything remotely related to public school.

I guess my boys don't "ask" for anything that looks like school, textbooks,
math books, handwriting books etc, maybe because they have never seen what
that looks like. Unless it is shown on TV. When school children come over
to play they never talk about that. LOL.

Maybe it is because I have boys. People tell me that there is a difference
in boys and girls related to their enjoying "book work." I don't have a girl
so I have nothing to compare to. I know I didn't like it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Heidi

Maybe a kid will get TO Homer, by way of Harry Potter! Like my Abbie
with her love of Tolkien, leading her to Beowulf. Her love of "A
Knight's Tale" the movie, leading her to Chaucer. Her love of telling
a terrific story orally, leading to her now working on a book.
(anyone know where we can get a cheap puter with Works? She needs to
be able to access her writing more readily)

HeidiC


> That's a problem with classical education too. Would ten year old
> kids really get more out of reading Homer than Harry Potter? I
> seriously doubt it. I went through a phase when I was about ten
when
> I wanted to read all the "classics" (by classics I meant Charles
> Dickens and Treasure Island). A few years ago I picked up Great
> Expectations and realized that most of it went completely over my
> head when I was ten. I remembered the story but I didn't "get"
most
> of it.
>
> Sorcha

sorcha_aisling

I guess another reason I ask is because my son is not the type who
would do well in school. It would crush him. He's very strong-
willed and very much a thinker, but he will only follow instructions
if they sound more interesting than what he was already planning. If
my child had been more of a compliant Suzy Sunshine, I can see myself
buying a Kindergarten curriculum and sitting down at the dining room
table every day at eight in the morning.

My son has such a forceful personality, and is so opinionated, that
if public school was the only option I would feel sorry for his
teacher as well as him. There's just no getting him to do what you
want unless it's what he wants. I can remember growing up, my mom
considered me "defiant", "disobedient", "mouthy", and all those other
lovely things, and she felt it was her job to beat me into
submission. When my son was little I decided not to think of him in
those terms and to let him grow up without breaking his spirit. And
believe me, school would break his spirit. But if he'd been a
different kind of child, I'd have been a different kind of parent,
and likely I'd write some book in ten years bragging about my child
reading in Latin when he was four years old.

One time my son was browsing the library and came across a book about
IQ testing and asked me what it was. I told him it was a test. He
wanted to take it. The first question had a bunch of pictures and it
asked if you would find any of them in a garden. He said, "Yes, the
cat." I told him it's quite likely you'd find a cat in a garden.
What about the flowers, though? He said, "No, you wouldn't find a
vase of cut flowers in a garden. That would be silly!" And then he
wandered off to look at something different. And I thought about how
much smarter he is than whoever made the test, and I knew I was
making the right decision to let his mind grow its own way rather
than training it.

Sorcha

sorcha_aisling

At the risk of posting too much, I'll add that for my son's entire
life I've been hearing my mom's commentary on him, which has ranged
from "Maybe he's mentally retarded; you should have him tested"
to "He might be a genius" to "I think he must be like Edison or
Einstein and he's really a genius but he seems mentally retarded". I
was wondering if other unschoolers have children who elicit such
comments. I doubt school-at-homers have children like him, because
they'd give up crying and either send him to school or unschool.

Sorcha

Tim and Maureen

I have 2 girls and 2 boys. None of them like book work. In fact my boys are more likely to have fun with playing with workbooks if anyone is but since I truly have released any expectations in that area they would rather not do anything with workbooks.

Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: genant2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 4:09 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Learning styles and homeschooling methods (long)


In a message dated 5/6/03 9:24:44 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jmcseals@...
writes:

> . So many unschoolers get wrapped
> up in rejecting anything remotely related to public school.

I guess my boys don't "ask" for anything that looks like school, textbooks,
math books, handwriting books etc, maybe because they have never seen what
that looks like. Unless it is shown on TV. When school children come over
to play they never talk about that. LOL.

Maybe it is because I have boys. People tell me that there is a difference
in boys and girls related to their enjoying "book work." I don't have a girl
so I have nothing to compare to. I know I didn't like it.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]