[email protected]

Andi,

Thanks for responding to my post.

<< we pulled isaac out after 2nd grade adn he needed 3 mo to deschool. it was
hard but i gave him the time he needed and kept the lines of communication
open.>>

Did you limit his TV or did you just let him have free time?

Regarding Math <<if he gets it right and enjoys it does it matter if he does
it the way the school does.>>

My concern is that it might be confusing for him as he approaches the higher
levels of math. I suppose however my concern might be based on my math
anxiety rather than his ability. Hmmmmmmm, I'll have to look at this one
again.

Naticia

[email protected]

Lois,

You wrote: <<I'd suggest since
it's the end of the year anyway that you are starting. Take the summer to
heal as a family. Let the children suggest activities that they'd missed
doing (if you are up to it) if it helps carry a notepad to jot down the
things that you've discussed/done that would fit into the "subject areas"
if you were keeping track or had to for your district. That way you may
feel more comfortable with unschooling while at the same time you will all
be together learning about each other.>>

That sounds like a wonderful idea. More than anything I think the notebook
will help me keep on track so I stay calm. I know Wes and I could really use
some bonding time. He has already talked about wanting to learn cartooning
and some other things that he can't learn in a traditional school setting.

<< Wow, mine was 10 and because of a horrible experience being labeled ADD and
being told he'd never make it in the real world he had no self esteem.. It
took him the entire first year home and then a couple more months. But once
he found that he wasn't stupid he perked right up and has been so happy.
Hopefully it won't take that long for you.>>

This kind of thing tears me up because I went through a very similar
experience as a child. Because I was only 4 years old when I entered
Kindergarten I was labeled immature and by 3rd grade I couldn't get the math.
It didn't matter to the school that I was reading a middle school level, the
fact was that I didn't fit into their box and so I was labeled with poor math
skills. Thereby affecting my entire life for more than 20 years and even now
I still suffer from that experience.

Good for you for taking him out and giving him the time he needed to know
that he is an intelligent and capable human being. Most kids labeled with
ADD are very intelligent!

<< > What are your experiences and how have you coped with having a toddler
in
>the house?
When mine were small, (and before school) they spent a lot of time outside.
The younger one would play hours of basketball on the court so I'd find a
seat and let him play. During that time my oldest could ride his bike
around where I could see or could have my attention. We read a lot while
the younger one, supposedly playing basketball, actually listened. I
realized how much he was listening when last year I asked him if he wanted
me to read him Tom Sawyer as it was one of his brothers favorites. He told
me he remembered me reading it while he played basketball. I didn't really
believe he remembered the story, but just to prove the point he told me the
story mostly in order letting me know all his favorite parts. BTW his
favorite part was how Tom convinced the others to whitewash the fence. He
did ask what whitewash was, but he knew the story.>>

Wow this is great! I have started reading the Lion the Witch and the
Wardrobe series to my kids. Wesley loves it and I am hoping to get him to a
point where he wants to read it by himself (or any book for that matter).
But Mara my 2 yo also sits and listens for as long as her two year old
attention span will allow her to.

I heard something recently that says that performing movement at the same
time one is learning something new actually helps the learner retain the
information better because when we move we use our "lower brain" and anything
we learn with our bodies or moving while learning is stored for more long
term retention. Please don't quote me on this I only heard it once and I was
not performing any activity to help me retain the information better! But if
what I heard is true it is entirely possible that your younger was "helped"
by playing basketball while he was listening!

<<It's different at each stage. I'm a single mother so I've never had time
away. When they were little, they had bedtimes so that was my time, when
they came home from school they were older so they didn't want a bedtime,
now my time is when they go out to play as they don't need me to follow
them around. You'll find your time, even if it's getting up a little
earlier for that one cup of tea before everyone wakes.>>

Please forgive my nosiness but how do you homeschool and support your family
at the same time?


<< I currently find it very challenging finding time just to pay the
>bills let alone make time for myself without taking my daughter to someone
>else's house.

Your son could probably help pay the bills, my son loves putting together
the budget. He is a great help to me with that, and he never forgets any of
the little things that I tend to forget.>>

What an awesome idea!! I could really use some help!

Thanks,
Naticia



>>

[email protected]

Lois,

<<> Math and PE got whole pies because he really likes those subjects. Art
got
>only 1/8 of a pie.

Did you keep the pie charts?>>

Yes, I did.

<< These could be really helpful to you in
realizing just what he would like to do each day. My son also liked PE the
most in school. So we made sure to have lots of physical things spread out
through the week. With art getting so little a section, maybe he just
needs to see real art. My children hated art at school.>>

The reason Wes hates art is because he was forced to paint flowers in
watercolors. Last fall he told me he wanted to take a class in cartooning so
I'm going to find him one this fall.

<< Each year they
made ceramics. they hated ceramics by the time they left. I have so many
bowls I don't know what to do with them. That's all they made, bowls. But
they saw me crocheting and asked me to show them how, they both did well
and enjoyed it.>>

It seems to me that art is something that should be explored not forced. I
too would dislike anything that someone told me I had to do.


<< >I called another elementary school that 2 moms had recommended to see if
we
>could come visit. The receptionist said that we could but that it would be
>better to wait until June because things would be more settled then.
>
My first sign that that wouldn't be the place for us. I don't like anyplace
that wants me to wait until things settle down more.>>

I actually called two other schools the next week. One of them, our
neighborhood school, said that they didn't allow children to observe because
it was too disruptive to the class. And the next school closest to us warned
me that the were expecting their fourth grade classes to have about 36 kids
in each class and that they couldn't get funding to hire anything more than a
teacher's aid. Jeff and I decided that we didn't need to waste our time
visiting.

<< For me I didn't know I could hs my children. Then I listened to
family/friends who reminded me that while I had my degree, I wasn't all
that good at math and wouldn't be able to teach them. I wish I would have
done it sooner, but then I think about the way this happened for us and
realized that while I can't change the past at least I listened to my
children and let them make the decision. Now at least I won't have to worry
about them coming back asking why I never let them go to school.>>

As parents we do the best we can at any given moment. The important thing is
that you listened to your kids and acted on it. This is what good parenting
is all about. If kids came with instruction manuals at birth it would be
easier to know what type of education would be best for each child but since
they don't you just head in a direction until you discover you need to change.

<<You'll do great. You're already looking at your options but most
importantly you are listening to your son.>>

Thank you for the vote of confidence!

Naticia

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/99 12:00:52 PM EST, Cyberdoula@... writes:

<< If you've made it this far, thank you for listening. I am open to
anything
anyone wants to share. >>
Naticia,
I have read your whole story and I just want to welcome you and let you know
that you have chosen a really great journey, and this is a great place to get
support. When I started, I was so afraid that I wouldn't do the right thing,
that I bought one of the more structured curriculum, because it was detailed
and told me what to do day to day, after 3 weeks I threw that away and went
for my own stuff. After, 5 years, I am between styles, and you know what? I
just don't even have a style! I just do what works for my family and don't
give a rats behind what anyone thinks is THE way or not. You choose what
works for you, if it is more structured to begin with, that is no great sin,
sometimes people have to gain confidence as they go. The ultimate goal is to
make learning a lifelong, enjoyable trip and it is based on trial and error.
Don't let anyone discourage you from whatever style you decide to use, you
will evolve to your ultimate teaching/learning style in good time. The
important thing is that you love and value your kids and want to do the best
you can for them.
Teresa ; >

Lois Hoover

>From: Cyberdoula@...
>>
>That sounds like a wonderful idea. More than anything I think the notebook
>will help me keep on track so I stay calm. I know Wes and I could really
use
>some bonding time. He has already talked about wanting to learn cartooning
>and some other things that he can't learn in a traditional school setting.
>
Speaking of cartooning. My sister just showed me Ed Emberly's fingerprint
art book (not sure if that's the exact title) it looks so fun, I've got to
show it to my son now. Anyway, all you need is paper, ink pad, your fingers
and in some cases a pencil/crayon. It would be a great start to cartooning.

><< Wow, mine was 10 and because of a horrible experience being labeled ADD
and
> being told he'd never make it in the real world he had no self esteem.. It
> took him the entire first year home and then a couple more months. But once
> he found that he wasn't stupid he perked right up and has been so happy.
> Hopefully it won't take that long for you.>>
>
>This kind of thing tears me up because I went through a very similar
>experience as a child. Because I was only 4 years old when I entered
>Kindergarten I was labeled immature and by 3rd grade I couldn't get the
math.
> It didn't matter to the school that I was reading a middle school level,
the
>fact was that I didn't fit into their box and so I was labeled with poor
math
>skills.

My situation was similar, I was tested before entering school and
immediately was sent a grade higher. So at 5 I was sent to first grade, it
gets worse from there. But the year before I'd already read the entire
Little woman novel on my own so the Dick and Jane books bored me to tears.
They brought me 8th grade readers (the highest grade in the school) but
those were too easy and still boring. From then on the teachers pretty much
ignored me.

>
>Good for you for taking him out and giving him the time he needed to know
>that he is an intelligent and capable human being. Most kids labeled with
>ADD are very intelligent!
>
Yes they are. A very good friend looks at her son who was classified ADD as
being lucky because this gives him a different way of looking at things, he
will definately be an inventor<g>


>
>Wow this is great! I have started reading the Lion the Witch and the
>Wardrobe series to my kids. Wesley loves it and I am hoping to get him to a
>point where he wants to read it by himself (or any book for that matter).

He may. I think the first thing my non reader read cover to cover was a
book on the titanic because it gave him all the information he needed to
work through a simulation game on the Titanic

>
>I heard something recently that says that performing movement at the same
>time one is learning something new actually helps the learner retain the
>information better

I've heard similar things. The theory I heard is that for some children
they just can't sit still for long as they get bored and the mind will
wander, but if their hands are busy they can concentrate better. All I
know is that my youngest still gets more out of being read to, and boy does
he, and he is usually doing something else at the same time.
>
> <<It's different at each stage. I'm a single mother so I've never had time
> away.


>Please forgive my nosiness but how do you homeschool and support your family
>at the same time?
>
NO problem. I am disabled so I recieve disability payments which allow me
to stay home. I used to work out of the house, I also for a while worked
from home. But now I'm just concentrating on the boys.
>
Lois
>

[email protected]

David,
Thank you for the positive reassurance. I'd really like to know the titles
of the other books that you know of. Anything anyone can recommend is
welcome. He loves math and I want to support that.
Naticia

In a message dated 6/6/99 9:53:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
shantinik@... writes:

<< From: David Albert <shantinik@...>

Cyberdoula@... wrote:

> -Wesley is very good at math and he likes it a lot. My concern is
> that he has learned to add in an unusual way. Instead of adding from the
> right and carrying the numbers, he adds from the left. He gets the answers
> right, but I feel compelled to show him another way.

Well, don't! Anyone who is really quick at math that I know (including
myself) figured out very early that adding from the left is much, Much
easier. There are several books out now (I think one is called
"Mathwizards" which specifically recommends this approach. Don't assume
that how he adds has anything necessarily to do with how he multiplies.
What counts (pardon the pun) is what works.

David
>>

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/99 1:33:06 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bushla@...
writes:<< Is he having trouble with the multiplication, or are you
anticipating? Our
conventions for adding, etc., are just that--conventions. I wouldn't
interfere if he's not having trouble. He sounds like he understands how the
numbers really work, what really happens with carrying, for instance, which
puts him well ahead of an awful lot of people who add conventionally but
don't really understand what they're doing and why it works.>>

I think it is my own math anxiety creeping in. Hmmmmmmm, I think I'm gonna
have to work on this one.

<< As long as you're not trying to replicate school at home, it's no harder to
homeschool with a toddler than it is to live with one, which may or may not
be reassuring!>>

I think that is the root of the challenge. We are going to have to find a
way to live with her till she gets through this "my" stage. Right now
everything is hers and although Wes is very patient he does get sick of it
all. She is VERY attached and very possessive of me. She will even go so
far as to scream at the top of her lungs if she sees anyone so much as touch
me without her permission! No matter how many times I tell her that I gave
them permission to hug me or whatever she still gets very upset.

<< I have a 2 yo right now, and was homeschooling when the now-6
yo was 2. He's into stuff, which means we have to be careful where we leave
important or easily wrecked projects. He likes to do what the big kids are
doing, so I try to include him in whatever we're doing, only at his level.
And we take advantage of the fact that dh is around in the evening to corral
him while I'm reading to the older kids, if he's disruptive.>>

Hmmmmmmm, I think my DH and Mara are going to be spending more time
together in the future.

<< I'm one of those people who really craves alone time.>>

Me too which is one of my current fears about Hs.

<< I have three kids at
home, ages 10, 6, and 2. Frankly, having the older ones home makes life
easier for me, because a certain amount of the day the littlest is
entertained by the older ones. He also still naps, which is good down time
for me, unless the older are wanting to do something special with me then.
I just grab the time I can--first thing in the a.m., many days; in the
afternoon during the littlest's nap time; whenever they're off playing
together. I don't spend the whole day intensely involved with my kids. They
spend a lot of every day at play--sometimes together, sometimes separately.
So I've not found getting my time alone to be all that hard. Also, dh is
always willing if I need an evening out or a Saturday morning out or
whatever.>>

Sounds like it's just a matter of balancing.

<< Your daughter won't always be 2--it won't always be this way, promise.>>
Yes, time fixes all.

Naticia
Who belongs to Mara!

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/99 3:01:38 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Squeaksoup@... writes:
<< It takes at least a year sometimes several years. This is what I've read
and
experienced. My two oldest children (I have five) were in school until they
were 7 and 10. We, like you, had them in a "good" private school. We were
having problems with the school in various ways and my oldest (10 at the
time) wanted to be homeschooled. We definitely unschool. My children have
been out of school for three years and I think I've had them back for 1
maybe
1 1/2 years.>>

Kimme,
It's good to know that it may take longer than 6 months. I am willing to
hang in there for as long as it takes.

<< I have an 18 month old but she is just part of things. The kids work
together on most things they do.>>

This is one of those situations, I imagine, where having a lot of kids is
easier than having one or two. I think once we get past Mara's "my mommy"
stage life will become easier.

<< < She encouraged me to read Dumbing Us Down, The Unschooling Handbook and
"anything by Holt". >

These are great suggestions. I would also recommend subscribing to Growing
Without Schooling and Home Education Magazine. If there is a support group
in your area, find them. You are doing the right thing. You will not
regret
this. Good Luck! Kimme>>

How do I can I get a subscription with either of those publications?

Thanks for your encouraging words.
Naticia

[email protected]

Teresa,
Thanks for your kind words. Of all the things I have heard and read so far,
the two pieces of advice that stand out the most is that I don't need to
spend a lot of money on curriculum and I don't need to recreate school at
home. Honestly, I don't know if I could have school at home even if I really
wanted to (or spend a lot of money for that matter).

The message I read in your post is to follow my instinct and do what feels
right. I think I will do just that. I really need to connect with Wesley so
I'm going to focus my efforts on making him feel special and important. He
deserves that at the very least. Then I'll let him tell me what he wants to
learn next and go for it.
Thank you,
Naticia


In a message dated 6/6/99 4:22:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Hsmotgo@...
writes:

<< I have read your whole story and I just want to welcome you and let you
know
that you have chosen a really great journey, and this is a great place to
get
support. When I started, I was so afraid that I wouldn't do the right
thing,
that I bought one of the more structured curriculum, because it was detailed
and told me what to do day to day, after 3 weeks I threw that away and went
for my own stuff. After, 5 years, I am between styles, and you know what? I
just don't even have a style! I just do what works for my family and don't
give a rats behind what anyone thinks is THE way or not. You choose what
works for you, if it is more structured to begin with, that is no great sin,
sometimes people have to gain confidence as they go. The ultimate goal is
to
make learning a lifelong, enjoyable trip and it is based on trial and error.

Don't let anyone discourage you from whatever style you decide to use, you
will evolve to your ultimate teaching/learning style in good time. The
important thing is that you love and value your kids and want to do the best
you can for them.
Teresa ; > >>

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/6/99 9:31:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, lhoover@...
writes:

<< My situation was similar, I was tested before entering school and
immediately was sent a grade higher. So at 5 I was sent to first grade, it
gets worse from there. But the year before I'd already read the entire
Little woman novel on my own so the Dick and Jane books bored me to tears.
They brought me 8th grade readers (the highest grade in the school) but
those were too easy and still boring. From then on the teachers pretty much
ignored me.>>

It's too bad hs wasn't an option in those days. It sounds like you would
have thrived in a hs situation.

<< He may. I think the first thing my non reader read cover to cover was a
book on the titanic because it gave him all the information he needed to
work through a simulation game on the Titanic>>

Yes, this is the key! Get them interested in something so much that they
will do ANYTHING to get the information including read!

<< I've heard similar things. The theory I heard is that for some children
they just can't sit still for long as they get bored and the mind will
wander, but if their hands are busy they can concentrate better. All I
know is that my youngest still gets more out of being read to, and boy does
he, and he is usually doing something else at the same time.>>

This makes me feel better about my toddler daughter wiggling about the room
as I'm trying to read a story.

<<No problem. I am disabled so I recieve disability payments which allow me
to stay home. I used to work out of the house, I also for a while worked
from home. But now I'm just concentrating on the boys. >>

I am sorry to hear about your situation, but what a wonderful oppurtunity to
put your energy to something really important.

Naticia

[email protected]

In a message dated 6/7/99 2:29:24 AM EST, Cyberdoula@... writes:

<< The message I read in your post is to follow my instinct and do what feels
right. I think I will do just that. >>
Natacia,
I am glad you got the message! I know everything will turn out great if you
just keep remembering that it is your family and your life and if it feels
right ......do it!
Teresa ; >

David Albert

Cyberdoula@... wrote:

> From: Cyberdoula@...
>
> David,
> Thank you for the positive reassurance. I'd really like to know the
> titles
> of the other books that you know of. Anything anyone can recommend is
>
> welcome. He loves math and I want to support that.
> Naticia
>

Dear Naticia -

I've just completed a book "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures
in Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" which is being published
by Holt Associates/New Society Publishers this fall. It has a chapter
("Fearful Symmetry") on what we found to work in mathematics with two
very different kids. I don't want to clutter up the list with
attachments, etc. But if you want, I'll be happy to e-mail you the
chapter separately (let me know if you can accept Word attachments, or
needs to come the old-fashioned e-mail way.) Only charge is you have to
tell me whether it resonates with your experience.

David Albert

Lois Hoover

David
Could I get a copy of this too?

Lois

At 07:38 AM 6/7/99 -0700, you wrote:
>From: David Albert <shantinik@...>
>
>Cyberdoula@... wrote:
>
>> From: Cyberdoula@...
>>
>> David,
>> Thank you for the positive reassurance. I'd really like to know the
>> titles
>> of the other books that you know of. Anything anyone can recommend is
>>
>> welcome. He loves math and I want to support that.
>> Naticia
>>
>
>Dear Naticia -
>
>I've just completed a book "And the Skylark Sings with Me: Adventures
>in Homeschooling and Community-Based Education" which is being published
>by Holt Associates/New Society Publishers this fall. It has a chapter
>("Fearful Symmetry") on what we found to work in mathematics with two
>very different kids. I don't want to clutter up the list with
>attachments, etc. But if you want, I'll be happy to e-mail you the
>chapter separately (let me know if you can accept Word attachments, or
>needs to come the old-fashioned e-mail way.) Only charge is you have to
>tell me whether it resonates with your experience.
>
>David Albert
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>http://www.unschooling.com
>
>