thinking about unschooling
nita248
Hi! I live in Michigan and I`m thinking about taking my son out of
public school and home schooling him. He is not doing well in the
public school system. He is in fifth grade this year. He hates going
to school. He has no friends and gets picked on every day. When he
was in second grade he was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course they put
him on Ritalin. His teachers said he walked around like a zombie.
Zoning out and daydreaming all the time. We decided to take him off
the medication. His teachers now say that he refuses to do any work
and he blows up for what they say is no reason. I do not see this
behavior at home. He does his homework for me without a problem.
Usually what happens is some kid picks on him, he asks them to leave
him alone and when they dont, he explodes. He has been suspended
twice for fighting. He always get blamed as well. They say he should
come and talk to them. But it doesn`t stop after they talk to these
other kids. So he does not trust them to take care of it for him. The
principal told us he needs to be put back on the medication. I feel
that what they want is a school full of zombies so they can easily
control them. I dont think medicine is the answer. He has had a few
teachers that he has done real with. Who actually took the time to
care. And he loved going to see them. As far as friends, he has
plenty of kids in our neighborhood he plays with. So socializing
isn`t an issue either. Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
Thanks in advane.
Nita
public school and home schooling him. He is not doing well in the
public school system. He is in fifth grade this year. He hates going
to school. He has no friends and gets picked on every day. When he
was in second grade he was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course they put
him on Ritalin. His teachers said he walked around like a zombie.
Zoning out and daydreaming all the time. We decided to take him off
the medication. His teachers now say that he refuses to do any work
and he blows up for what they say is no reason. I do not see this
behavior at home. He does his homework for me without a problem.
Usually what happens is some kid picks on him, he asks them to leave
him alone and when they dont, he explodes. He has been suspended
twice for fighting. He always get blamed as well. They say he should
come and talk to them. But it doesn`t stop after they talk to these
other kids. So he does not trust them to take care of it for him. The
principal told us he needs to be put back on the medication. I feel
that what they want is a school full of zombies so they can easily
control them. I dont think medicine is the answer. He has had a few
teachers that he has done real with. Who actually took the time to
care. And he loved going to see them. As far as friends, he has
plenty of kids in our neighborhood he plays with. So socializing
isn`t an issue either. Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
Thanks in advane.
Nita
Have a Nice Day!
I don't live in Michigan, but I say...get him out of there asap.
My son did a lot of what you describe in school at that age too. He has flourished being at home, not homeschooling, but UNschooling.
I'm sure there are a few people from Michigan here who can help you with how to get started.
Kristen
My son did a lot of what you describe in school at that age too. He has flourished being at home, not homeschooling, but UNschooling.
I'm sure there are a few people from Michigan here who can help you with how to get started.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: nita248
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 1:08 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] thinking about unschooling
Hi! I live in Michigan and I`m thinking about taking my son out of
public school and home schooling him. He is not doing well in the
public school system. He is in fifth grade this year. He hates going
to school. He has no friends and gets picked on every day. When he
was in second grade he was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course they put
him on Ritalin. His teachers said he walked around like a zombie.
Zoning out and daydreaming all the time. We decided to take him off
the medication. His teachers now say that he refuses to do any work
and he blows up for what they say is no reason. I do not see this
behavior at home. He does his homework for me without a problem.
Usually what happens is some kid picks on him, he asks them to leave
him alone and when they dont, he explodes. He has been suspended
twice for fighting. He always get blamed as well. They say he should
come and talk to them. But it doesn`t stop after they talk to these
other kids. So he does not trust them to take care of it for him. The
principal told us he needs to be put back on the medication. I feel
that what they want is a school full of zombies so they can easily
control them. I dont think medicine is the answer. He has had a few
teachers that he has done real with. Who actually took the time to
care. And he loved going to see them. As far as friends, he has
plenty of kids in our neighborhood he plays with. So socializing
isn`t an issue either. Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
Thanks in advane.
Nita
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/24/03 11:36:52 AM, nita2483@... writes:
<< . Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get. >>
First, bring him home. Maybe right now, if you read this before school is
out.
Don't send him tomorrow. I'm serious. If he really wants to go back some
before the end of school, it doesn't have to be this week.
If you are going to homeschool, he doesn't need to finish this year. He
doesn't need anything but to leave the toxic situation and get started on
your new life together.
I would advise you not to spend any money whatsoever on special supplies or
homeschooling anything. There are websites galore to read, but ignore the
advertising for now (and forever, if you can). If you want to spend any
money, take him to lunch at various restaurants. Ethnic or foreign if you
can. Nice ones with ambiance and quiet. Sit and talk. Buy him magazines
about things he's interested in. Buy him a new video game. Rent some DVDs.
Make popcorn and cookies. Kick back. Relax and talk and just be with him.
Sandra
<< . Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get. >>
First, bring him home. Maybe right now, if you read this before school is
out.
Don't send him tomorrow. I'm serious. If he really wants to go back some
before the end of school, it doesn't have to be this week.
If you are going to homeschool, he doesn't need to finish this year. He
doesn't need anything but to leave the toxic situation and get started on
your new life together.
I would advise you not to spend any money whatsoever on special supplies or
homeschooling anything. There are websites galore to read, but ignore the
advertising for now (and forever, if you can). If you want to spend any
money, take him to lunch at various restaurants. Ethnic or foreign if you
can. Nice ones with ambiance and quiet. Sit and talk. Buy him magazines
about things he's interested in. Buy him a new video game. Rent some DVDs.
Make popcorn and cookies. Kick back. Relax and talk and just be with him.
Sandra
jmcseals SEALS
>>>The principal told us he needs to be put back on the medication.<<<Oh my goodness! Go, RUN, as fast as you can and grab your child! There is
something TERRIBLY wrong when a principal is diagnosing and ordering
medication for children. Sounds like he wants your son drugged to make
*HIS* (the P's)life easier. Zombie kids = no trouble??? THAT is scary. I
could go on and on but I'll save it for the pillow. ;)
From what you wrote, it sounds like he NEEDS to be home! You said he
doesn't have those problems at home, only at school. For me, that would be
the ONLY reason I would need to yank him out so fast the damn principal
wouldn't know what hit him!
This sounds like a classic case of a child in need of unschooling. Once the
barriers and pressures are missing, he WILL flourish. You will meet an
entirely different boy. His confidence will soar and I'm willing to bet the
signs of ADHD will fall to the wayside.
Best of luck to you, we're here if you decide to take the plunge!!!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
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britcontoo
--- In [email protected], "nita248" <nita2483@a...>
wrote:
I am new to all this myself, so I can't give you much advice on
getting started. I do have to say I thought Sandra's advice was a
tear jerker. So many of us are scard to ruin our children so we put
them in the care of others who do it for us. Just picturing a child
being made to feel that important and being allowed to be a kid
confirmed my decision for me.
I can share this with you, I have a nephew who has been struggling
with public school for years. I think what started out as trying to
be popular and the class clown turned him into the target. He has
been picked on for years, to the point where I cannot understand it.
He is unsuccessful in school, smart but no motivation. They have
done all the battery of tests to try and label him but he is not
fitting any of there criteria. Wouldn't they love to find out that
he has some disorder they can all blame besides themselves! Anyway,
point is I don't know what he will make of his life because his
parents are not really doing anything to change the situation. They
are frustatred but not willing to try private school and certainly
would never consider pulling him from school. But all I keep
thinking is he is learning nothing that will help him in real life.
What he is learning is that he is not valuble or lovable or even
likable for that matter and he will spend the rest of his life trying
to get over that. Hopefully, your son can get out and over it and on
with his life while he is still a kid and can enjoy it. Good luck
with whatever you do.
wrote:
> Does anyone have any advice on what I can doNita,
> and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
> Thanks in advane.
>
> Nita
I am new to all this myself, so I can't give you much advice on
getting started. I do have to say I thought Sandra's advice was a
tear jerker. So many of us are scard to ruin our children so we put
them in the care of others who do it for us. Just picturing a child
being made to feel that important and being allowed to be a kid
confirmed my decision for me.
I can share this with you, I have a nephew who has been struggling
with public school for years. I think what started out as trying to
be popular and the class clown turned him into the target. He has
been picked on for years, to the point where I cannot understand it.
He is unsuccessful in school, smart but no motivation. They have
done all the battery of tests to try and label him but he is not
fitting any of there criteria. Wouldn't they love to find out that
he has some disorder they can all blame besides themselves! Anyway,
point is I don't know what he will make of his life because his
parents are not really doing anything to change the situation. They
are frustatred but not willing to try private school and certainly
would never consider pulling him from school. But all I keep
thinking is he is learning nothing that will help him in real life.
What he is learning is that he is not valuble or lovable or even
likable for that matter and he will spend the rest of his life trying
to get over that. Hopefully, your son can get out and over it and on
with his life while he is still a kid and can enjoy it. Good luck
with whatever you do.
britcontoo
--- In [email protected], "nita248" <nita2483@a...>
wrote:
I am new to all this myself, so I can't give you much advice on
getting started. I do have to say I thought Sandra's advice was a
tear jerker. So many of us are scard to ruin our children so we put
them in the care of others who do it for us. Just picturing a child
being made to feel that important and being allowed to be a kid
confirmed my decision for me.
I can share this with you, I have a nephew who has been struggling
with public school for years. I think what started out as trying to
be popular and the class clown turned him into the target. He has
been picked on for years, to the point where I cannot understand it.
He is unsuccessful in school, smart but no motivation. They have
done all the battery of tests to try and label him but he is not
fitting any of there criteria. Wouldn't they love to find out that
he has some disorder they can all blame besides themselves! Anyway,
point is I don't know what he will make of his life because his
parents are not really doing anything to change the situation. They
are frustatred but not willing to try private school and certainly
would never consider pulling him from school. But all I keep
thinking is he is learning nothing that will help him in real life.
What he is learning is that he is not valuble or lovable or even
likable for that matter and he will spend the rest of his life trying
to get over that. Hopefully, your son can get out and over it and on
with his life while he is still a kid and can enjoy it. Good luck
with whatever you do.
Olga :)
wrote:
> Does anyone have any advice on what I can doNita,
> and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
> Thanks in advane.
>
> Nita
I am new to all this myself, so I can't give you much advice on
getting started. I do have to say I thought Sandra's advice was a
tear jerker. So many of us are scard to ruin our children so we put
them in the care of others who do it for us. Just picturing a child
being made to feel that important and being allowed to be a kid
confirmed my decision for me.
I can share this with you, I have a nephew who has been struggling
with public school for years. I think what started out as trying to
be popular and the class clown turned him into the target. He has
been picked on for years, to the point where I cannot understand it.
He is unsuccessful in school, smart but no motivation. They have
done all the battery of tests to try and label him but he is not
fitting any of there criteria. Wouldn't they love to find out that
he has some disorder they can all blame besides themselves! Anyway,
point is I don't know what he will make of his life because his
parents are not really doing anything to change the situation. They
are frustatred but not willing to try private school and certainly
would never consider pulling him from school. But all I keep
thinking is he is learning nothing that will help him in real life.
What he is learning is that he is not valuble or lovable or even
likable for that matter and he will spend the rest of his life trying
to get over that. Hopefully, your son can get out and over it and on
with his life while he is still a kid and can enjoy it. Good luck
with whatever you do.
Olga :)
[email protected]
Hi Nita,
I don't know the laws in your state im sure someone on this list does.
We had similar issues at school, often the school got tired of me in their
face as to why they where allowing my son to be bullied.
I just wanted to chime in and tell you that pulling our son was the best
decision we ever made. He is 11 now and has no interest in going back at all.
We also do not use any of the local town sports teams as the same children
continued to be abusive to our son and others.
We let him go back one more time for two weeks last year and the fist day he
came home crying, some things never change I just hope someday he will let it
all go.
Laura
Mom to 3
Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I don't know the laws in your state im sure someone on this list does.
We had similar issues at school, often the school got tired of me in their
face as to why they where allowing my son to be bullied.
I just wanted to chime in and tell you that pulling our son was the best
decision we ever made. He is 11 now and has no interest in going back at all.
We also do not use any of the local town sports teams as the same children
continued to be abusive to our son and others.
We let him go back one more time for two weeks last year and the fist day he
came home crying, some things never change I just hope someday he will let it
all go.
Laura
Mom to 3
Maine
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nita248
--- In [email protected], "treegoddess@c..."
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
son is enrolled in the Ferndale school district.
Nita
<treegoddess@c...> wrote:
> nita248 wrote:advice on what I can do and how to get started?
>
> >Hi! I live in Michigan and I`m thinking about taking my son out of
> >public school and home schooling him. <snip> Does anyone have any
> >describing,
>
> My nephew's school life is *very* much like the one you're
> but I haven't been able to get my sister to pull him out of thatday.
> nightmare. She says that she couldn't stand him being home all
> <wince>son
>
> To answer your question, Nita, Michigan is pretty relaxed about
> homeschooling. No testing, no reporting, no need to "prove" you're
> using a curriculum, etc. The best way to start homeschooling your
> is just not to take him back to school. Seriously! :)from now
>
> Most families that I know who have taken their children out of the
> school system informed the school that they'll be homeschooling
> on so that the school doesn't make a truancy or something.No "reason"
> or explaination is necessary -- and the less said the better IMO.and
>
> I recommend that you go to Sandra Dodd's web site and read, read,
> read some more. Especially her article on "deschooling".some
> http://sandradodd.com/deschooling
>
> BTW, where in MI are you? I might be able to direct you toward
> local homeschooling groups if you're in SE lower Michigan.Thanks so much for your help! I live in Oak Park, Michigan. But My
>
> TreeGoddess
son is enrolled in the Ferndale school district.
Nita
[email protected]
Nita, don't send your son back! Our son was in the 5th grade also and was
going through the same your son is going through (minus ADHD) and he wouldn't
fight back. We tried so often to get these issues resolved and it always came
back to comments like: kids will be kids, your kid is too quiet and so on.
Our son eventually did not trust adults let alone other kids. We were
thinking about homeschooling for about 4 months but by then the damage had
been done. Those kids that were beating him up took it a step farther and our
son was seriously injured. We didn't see any anger in our son either. Since
we've had him home with us, I have seen a lot of anger and resentment. It
gets better each day that he is not in public school and the anger is slowly
fading away. Please don't wait another minute. Don't send him back. Keep him
home with you where he belongs.
~Kim
In a message dated 4/24/03 5:59:37 PM, [email protected]
writes:
<< Message: 9
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:08:52 -0000
From: "nita248" <nita2483@...>
Subject: thinking about unschooling
Hi! I live in Michigan and I`m thinking about taking my son out of
public school and home schooling him. He is not doing well in the
public school system. He is in fifth grade this year. He hates going
to school. He has no friends and gets picked on every day. When he
was in second grade he was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course they put
him on Ritalin. His teachers said he walked around like a zombie.
Zoning out and daydreaming all the time. We decided to take him off
the medication. His teachers now say that he refuses to do any work
and he blows up for what they say is no reason. I do not see this
behavior at home. He does his homework for me without a problem.
Usually what happens is some kid picks on him, he asks them to leave
him alone and when they dont, he explodes. He has been suspended
twice for fighting. He always get blamed as well. They say he should
come and talk to them. But it doesn`t stop after they talk to these
other kids. So he does not trust them to take care of it for him. The
principal told us he needs to be put back on the medication. I feel
that what they want is a school full of zombies so they can easily
control them. I dont think medicine is the answer. He has had a few
teachers that he has done real with. Who actually took the time to
care. And he loved going to see them. As far as friends, he has
plenty of kids in our neighborhood he plays with. So socializing
isn`t an issue either. Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
Thanks in advane.
Nita
going through the same your son is going through (minus ADHD) and he wouldn't
fight back. We tried so often to get these issues resolved and it always came
back to comments like: kids will be kids, your kid is too quiet and so on.
Our son eventually did not trust adults let alone other kids. We were
thinking about homeschooling for about 4 months but by then the damage had
been done. Those kids that were beating him up took it a step farther and our
son was seriously injured. We didn't see any anger in our son either. Since
we've had him home with us, I have seen a lot of anger and resentment. It
gets better each day that he is not in public school and the anger is slowly
fading away. Please don't wait another minute. Don't send him back. Keep him
home with you where he belongs.
~Kim
In a message dated 4/24/03 5:59:37 PM, [email protected]
writes:
<< Message: 9
Date: Thu, 24 Apr 2003 17:08:52 -0000
From: "nita248" <nita2483@...>
Subject: thinking about unschooling
Hi! I live in Michigan and I`m thinking about taking my son out of
public school and home schooling him. He is not doing well in the
public school system. He is in fifth grade this year. He hates going
to school. He has no friends and gets picked on every day. When he
was in second grade he was diagnosed with ADHD. Of course they put
him on Ritalin. His teachers said he walked around like a zombie.
Zoning out and daydreaming all the time. We decided to take him off
the medication. His teachers now say that he refuses to do any work
and he blows up for what they say is no reason. I do not see this
behavior at home. He does his homework for me without a problem.
Usually what happens is some kid picks on him, he asks them to leave
him alone and when they dont, he explodes. He has been suspended
twice for fighting. He always get blamed as well. They say he should
come and talk to them. But it doesn`t stop after they talk to these
other kids. So he does not trust them to take care of it for him. The
principal told us he needs to be put back on the medication. I feel
that what they want is a school full of zombies so they can easily
control them. I dont think medicine is the answer. He has had a few
teachers that he has done real with. Who actually took the time to
care. And he loved going to see them. As far as friends, he has
plenty of kids in our neighborhood he plays with. So socializing
isn`t an issue either. Does anyone have any advice on what I can do
and how to get started? I would appreciate any input I can get.
Thanks in advane.
Nita
Tim and Maureen
----- Original Message -----
From: hmsl2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 24, 2003 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] thinking about unschooling
Nita,
JUst needed to add my piece. When I pulled my daughter out of school the bullying had just begun. Can't tell you how uncertain and afraid I was. Now it is five years later and it has never looked like the wrong move for her.
Maureen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
e400clb
Hello everyone. Just wanted to share some thoughts and perhaps get a
little support.... I have, for a long time, thought of myself as
kind of an oddball, because I seem to think about things and see
things from a perspective that the people around me haven't even
thought about at all!
Do any of you have that kind of feeling? For example, in the public
school world, the way people assume that a certain score on a test
indicates that learning has been achieved. I try to talk to friends
about this, and how it just doesn't add up to me, and they look at
me like I'm nuts, and who cares? And everyone's kids are required to
do it, so it must be right.
An example: Last year when my son was in Kindergarten the teacher
sent home math tasks that were to be completed each week (on your
honor, as there was no work to be handed in). On Friday we were to
send in a sheet of paper, signed by both parent and child, stating
we had done the work, and circling a face to indicate our "feelings"
about doing it: happy, sad, or indifferent.
I told the Kindergarten teacher I had a problem with that, and
wouldn't be doing it. I told her it made something that was very
natural for us (doing math around the house and in "real life") very
self-conscious and put rules and requirements on it that took away
the fun and spontaneity of it... and that it really didn't need to
be quantified or assessed anyway. She replied that it was important
because in First Grade he would have homework every night and he
needed to get used to it... to get in the habit of it.
Homework in first grade??? This was my thought. Homework in first
grade??? Why isn't a 7-hour school day enough for a child of the age
of 6? I mentioned this to some friends. "Do you realize the test
scores for our district are among the highest in this area?" was one
response. Like... don't question it, it must be right. Others just
kind of looked at me blankly. Or, as another mom said, "Yes, that's
true. Kids do need to learn the habit of doing homework."
Well, we ended up moving out of that district, but I have stayed in
touch. And yes, the first graders have homework... about an hour
*every* night.
Okay, I'm ranting here. Just simply wondering if anyone else thinks
this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me.
:) Carly
little support.... I have, for a long time, thought of myself as
kind of an oddball, because I seem to think about things and see
things from a perspective that the people around me haven't even
thought about at all!
Do any of you have that kind of feeling? For example, in the public
school world, the way people assume that a certain score on a test
indicates that learning has been achieved. I try to talk to friends
about this, and how it just doesn't add up to me, and they look at
me like I'm nuts, and who cares? And everyone's kids are required to
do it, so it must be right.
An example: Last year when my son was in Kindergarten the teacher
sent home math tasks that were to be completed each week (on your
honor, as there was no work to be handed in). On Friday we were to
send in a sheet of paper, signed by both parent and child, stating
we had done the work, and circling a face to indicate our "feelings"
about doing it: happy, sad, or indifferent.
I told the Kindergarten teacher I had a problem with that, and
wouldn't be doing it. I told her it made something that was very
natural for us (doing math around the house and in "real life") very
self-conscious and put rules and requirements on it that took away
the fun and spontaneity of it... and that it really didn't need to
be quantified or assessed anyway. She replied that it was important
because in First Grade he would have homework every night and he
needed to get used to it... to get in the habit of it.
Homework in first grade??? This was my thought. Homework in first
grade??? Why isn't a 7-hour school day enough for a child of the age
of 6? I mentioned this to some friends. "Do you realize the test
scores for our district are among the highest in this area?" was one
response. Like... don't question it, it must be right. Others just
kind of looked at me blankly. Or, as another mom said, "Yes, that's
true. Kids do need to learn the habit of doing homework."
Well, we ended up moving out of that district, but I have stayed in
touch. And yes, the first graders have homework... about an hour
*every* night.
Okay, I'm ranting here. Just simply wondering if anyone else thinks
this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me.
:) Carly
Wife2Vegman
--- e400clb <e400clb@...> wrote:
preaching to the choir, as it were.
But what you describe is very typical of both public
and private schools. Has been for over 10 years at
least.
=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA
"This child is a natural product. The slight variations in growth,
development and temperament enhance his or her individual character
and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects." -- from the unschoolingdiscussion email list
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> Well, we ended up moving out of that district, but IWell, this *is* an unschooling list, so you're kind of
> have stayed in
> touch. And yes, the first graders have homework...
> about an hour
> *every* night.
>
> Okay, I'm ranting here. Just simply wondering if
> anyone else thinks
> this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me.
> :) Carly
preaching to the choir, as it were.
But what you describe is very typical of both public
and private schools. Has been for over 10 years at
least.
=====
--Susan in Sterling, VA
"This child is a natural product. The slight variations in growth,
development and temperament enhance his or her individual character
and beauty and in no way are to be considered flaws or defects." -- from the unschoolingdiscussion email list
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Susan Gallien
> Okay, I'm ranting here. Just simply wondering if anyone elseIt seems to be "culturally embedded insanity" and the more of us questioning it the less embedded it will become, though I do fear that things may become more difficult for unschoolers if the powers that be realioze the huge effects that a lot of unschoolers would have on this insane society.
> thinks this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me.
> :) Carly
Sue Gallien
The Winona Farm, Minnesota
http://thewinonafarm.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 12/21/2003 2:04:50 AM Mountain Standard Time,
e400clb@... writes:
-=-Just simply wondering if anyone else thinks
this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me. -=-
Could be both!
Some people are more sheeplike and some are appreciative of having their
lives directed by experts. Others balk. Some balk too much so that it becomes
just a kneejerk reaction, kind of a kid-style "You can't make me," and some
adults (I'm related to one) get into a lifelong habit of saying "nuh uh" about any
suggestion no matter how good. They make their decisions by the "just say
no" method. So the teachers at school might have blown you off as just a person
who's obstinant.
But there IS cultural delusion about the value and place of school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
e400clb@... writes:
-=-Just simply wondering if anyone else thinks
this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me. -=-
Could be both!
Some people are more sheeplike and some are appreciative of having their
lives directed by experts. Others balk. Some balk too much so that it becomes
just a kneejerk reaction, kind of a kid-style "You can't make me," and some
adults (I'm related to one) get into a lifelong habit of saying "nuh uh" about any
suggestion no matter how good. They make their decisions by the "just say
no" method. So the teachers at school might have blown you off as just a person
who's obstinant.
But there IS cultural delusion about the value and place of school.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Danielle E. Conger
Found an over-priced bag of old-fashioned jacks made out of pewter in
Colonial Williamsburg and picked them up. The set includes a rubber ball
and a wooden one for throwing up in the air, which they did before rubber
was available. That's really hard! It also came with a neat little blurb on
the history of jackstones and several game variations. Jacks were
originally played with sheep's knucklebones. Very interesting.
Probably would've passed them by if it hadn't been for the recent
discussion here.
--danielle
Colonial Williamsburg and picked them up. The set includes a rubber ball
and a wooden one for throwing up in the air, which they did before rubber
was available. That's really hard! It also came with a neat little blurb on
the history of jackstones and several game variations. Jacks were
originally played with sheep's knucklebones. Very interesting.
Probably would've passed them by if it hadn't been for the recent
discussion here.
--danielle
Wendy Carr
Im right there with you!! Test scores never told me how much my son knew,
just that he hated tests and he was/is a bright young man with lots of
learning left to do at his own pase. I ALWAYS hated homework, even as a kid
in school my self. I would spend countless hours up at the school trying to
get the teachers to stop giving him so much home work, but they never saw it
my way... So I took him out. I thought I was truely insane and the only one
that thought this way, untill I met an unschooler... YAY!!!!!!! I found my
way in the world!
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(4 months)
Proud To Home-school!
_________________________________________________________________
Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
just that he hated tests and he was/is a bright young man with lots of
learning left to do at his own pase. I ALWAYS hated homework, even as a kid
in school my self. I would spend countless hours up at the school trying to
get the teachers to stop giving him so much home work, but they never saw it
my way... So I took him out. I thought I was truely insane and the only one
that thought this way, untill I met an unschooler... YAY!!!!!!! I found my
way in the world!
>From: "e400clb" <e400clb@...>Wendy Carr
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] thinking about unschooling
>Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 05:58:55 -0000
>
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(4 months)
Proud To Home-school!
_________________________________________________________________
Make your home warm and cozy this winter with tips from MSN House & Home.
http://special.msn.com/home/warmhome.armx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Tia Leschke
>I wonder what all the homework pushers think about the fact that we never
>I told the Kindergarten teacher I had a problem with that, and
>wouldn't be doing it. I told her it made something that was very
>natural for us (doing math around the house and in "real life") very
>self-conscious and put rules and requirements on it that took away
>the fun and spontaneity of it... and that it really didn't need to
>be quantified or assessed anyway. She replied that it was important
>because in First Grade he would have homework every night and he
>needed to get used to it... to get in the habit of it.
>
>Homework in first grade??? This was my thought. Homework in first
>grade??? Why isn't a 7-hour school day enough for a child of the age
>of 6? I mentioned this to some friends. "Do you realize the test
>scores for our district are among the highest in this area?" was one
>response. Like... don't question it, it must be right. Others just
>kind of looked at me blankly. Or, as another mom said, "Yes, that's
>true. Kids do need to learn the habit of doing homework."
had any homework at all until grade 7. This was in the 50's, what *some*
folks look back to as "the good old days" when the schools were still
"good". It was also in a school district that was considered one of the
better ones at the time.
Tia
Wendy Carr
I used to spend every weekend in Williamsburg Va! We lived in Newport News
Va for 3 years!
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(4 months)
Proud To Home-school!
_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work � and
yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Va for 3 years!
>From: "Danielle E. Conger" <danielle.conger@...>Wendy Carr
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: [UnschoolingDiscussion] Old-fashioned Jacks
>Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2003 12:12:31 -0500
>
When the first baby laughed for the first time, the laugh broke into a
thousand pieces and they all went skipping about, and that was the beginning
of fairies. - Barrie
Mom to Austyn(8) and Caitlin(4 months)
Proud To Home-school!
_________________________________________________________________
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work � and
yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Elizabeth Roberts
Carly,
No, you're not alone at all! I feel the same way. It nuts! By the way, hello and welcome to the group!
MamaBeth
e400clb <e400clb@...> wrote:
Hello everyone. Just wanted to share some thoughts and perhaps get a
little support.... I have, for a long time, thought of myself as
kind of an oddball, because I seem to think about things and see
things from a perspective that the people around me haven't even
thought about at all!
Do any of you have that kind of feeling? For example, in the public
school world, the way people assume that a certain score on a test
indicates that learning has been achieved. I try to talk to friends
about this, and how it just doesn't add up to me, and they look at
me like I'm nuts, and who cares? And everyone's kids are required to
do it, so it must be right.
An example: Last year when my son was in Kindergarten the teacher
sent home math tasks that were to be completed each week (on your
honor, as there was no work to be handed in). On Friday we were to
send in a sheet of paper, signed by both parent and child, stating
we had done the work, and circling a face to indicate our "feelings"
about doing it: happy, sad, or indifferent.
I told the Kindergarten teacher I had a problem with that, and
wouldn't be doing it. I told her it made something that was very
natural for us (doing math around the house and in "real life") very
self-conscious and put rules and requirements on it that took away
the fun and spontaneity of it... and that it really didn't need to
be quantified or assessed anyway. She replied that it was important
because in First Grade he would have homework every night and he
needed to get used to it... to get in the habit of it.
Homework in first grade??? This was my thought. Homework in first
grade??? Why isn't a 7-hour school day enough for a child of the age
of 6? I mentioned this to some friends. "Do you realize the test
scores for our district are among the highest in this area?" was one
response. Like... don't question it, it must be right. Others just
kind of looked at me blankly. Or, as another mom said, "Yes, that's
true. Kids do need to learn the habit of doing homework."
Well, we ended up moving out of that district, but I have stayed in
touch. And yes, the first graders have homework... about an hour
*every* night.
Okay, I'm ranting here. Just simply wondering if anyone else thinks
this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me.
:) Carly
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
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Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
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New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
No, you're not alone at all! I feel the same way. It nuts! By the way, hello and welcome to the group!
MamaBeth
e400clb <e400clb@...> wrote:
Hello everyone. Just wanted to share some thoughts and perhaps get a
little support.... I have, for a long time, thought of myself as
kind of an oddball, because I seem to think about things and see
things from a perspective that the people around me haven't even
thought about at all!
Do any of you have that kind of feeling? For example, in the public
school world, the way people assume that a certain score on a test
indicates that learning has been achieved. I try to talk to friends
about this, and how it just doesn't add up to me, and they look at
me like I'm nuts, and who cares? And everyone's kids are required to
do it, so it must be right.
An example: Last year when my son was in Kindergarten the teacher
sent home math tasks that were to be completed each week (on your
honor, as there was no work to be handed in). On Friday we were to
send in a sheet of paper, signed by both parent and child, stating
we had done the work, and circling a face to indicate our "feelings"
about doing it: happy, sad, or indifferent.
I told the Kindergarten teacher I had a problem with that, and
wouldn't be doing it. I told her it made something that was very
natural for us (doing math around the house and in "real life") very
self-conscious and put rules and requirements on it that took away
the fun and spontaneity of it... and that it really didn't need to
be quantified or assessed anyway. She replied that it was important
because in First Grade he would have homework every night and he
needed to get used to it... to get in the habit of it.
Homework in first grade??? This was my thought. Homework in first
grade??? Why isn't a 7-hour school day enough for a child of the age
of 6? I mentioned this to some friends. "Do you realize the test
scores for our district are among the highest in this area?" was one
response. Like... don't question it, it must be right. Others just
kind of looked at me blankly. Or, as another mom said, "Yes, that's
true. Kids do need to learn the habit of doing homework."
Well, we ended up moving out of that district, but I have stayed in
touch. And yes, the first graders have homework... about an hour
*every* night.
Okay, I'm ranting here. Just simply wondering if anyone else thinks
this is culturally embedded insanity. Or if it's me.
:) Carly
"List Posting Policies" are provided in the files area of this group.
To unsubscribe from this send an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website and message boards: http://www.unschooling.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links
To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/UnschoolingDiscussion/
To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[email protected]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Everything I need to know, I learned on my own!
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Annette
Carly,
WOW...I had the exact same reasons for taking Nicolas out of school. He
is my 6yr old and I was just so disgusted with the fact that they had
homework, even in K. They had a packet to do every week, each night at
least one page and this is in prep for 1st grade. Plus a book report
every week. What good will that do a child that cant read on his own
anyway? I was doing all the reading, then I had to help him figure out
what he wanted to tell about the story (fav part or something) then I
had to help him write it. It was homework for me really.
So, I pulled him out and I thought I would work with him everyday on
SOMETHING. Keep his mind moving, I guess. Now, with a little help and
encouragement from a local mummy! I am laying off. If he wants to watch
TV, ok. If he wants to play with legos and pretend that they are
battleships, ok. The more I lay off, the more I see bits of interest in
things. Its definitely a slow process, my kid is OBSESSED with TV. BUT,
the other day I brought home some new things and he was into them big
time.
We are much happier this way than in school worrying about bedtimes and
waking up on time and getting out the door and pickup and HOMEWORK,
BLOODY HOMEWORK! LOL
BTW...let me introduce myself. I am Annette. I have a hubby-Jason, 2
boys-Nicolas 6 and Joseph-18mo and expecting another 1/12/04. We live in
FL and I heard about the list from a good friends - Mary and Michelle.
Hi Gals!!
Annette,Jason
& Our 3 Boujas
Nicolas, Joseph
& peanut due 1/12/04
WOW...I had the exact same reasons for taking Nicolas out of school. He
is my 6yr old and I was just so disgusted with the fact that they had
homework, even in K. They had a packet to do every week, each night at
least one page and this is in prep for 1st grade. Plus a book report
every week. What good will that do a child that cant read on his own
anyway? I was doing all the reading, then I had to help him figure out
what he wanted to tell about the story (fav part or something) then I
had to help him write it. It was homework for me really.
So, I pulled him out and I thought I would work with him everyday on
SOMETHING. Keep his mind moving, I guess. Now, with a little help and
encouragement from a local mummy! I am laying off. If he wants to watch
TV, ok. If he wants to play with legos and pretend that they are
battleships, ok. The more I lay off, the more I see bits of interest in
things. Its definitely a slow process, my kid is OBSESSED with TV. BUT,
the other day I brought home some new things and he was into them big
time.
We are much happier this way than in school worrying about bedtimes and
waking up on time and getting out the door and pickup and HOMEWORK,
BLOODY HOMEWORK! LOL
BTW...let me introduce myself. I am Annette. I have a hubby-Jason, 2
boys-Nicolas 6 and Joseph-18mo and expecting another 1/12/04. We live in
FL and I heard about the list from a good friends - Mary and Michelle.
Hi Gals!!
Annette,Jason
& Our 3 Boujas
Nicolas, Joseph
& peanut due 1/12/04