Not enough faith?
[email protected]
I've been reading here for several weeks and haven't seen this situation
addressed, so here goes. (Be gentle with me -- it's my first time :-)
My ds is now almost 15 and liberated himself from the educational system a
year and a half ago, after being rather brutally oppressed by that system for
over 8 years. By the time I snapped to the reality and to our options, and
by the time I convinced everyone (including him) to give hs'ing a try, his
intellectual curiosity and joy for learning, which had always been such a key
part of him, had almost completely been extinguished. Because of the clear
damage done to him and because I identified him as a kinesthetic learner and
a random-abstract thinker, we embraced unschooling from the very beginning.
Overcoming my own programming, and relaxing through the deschooling process
has probably been our most difficult hurdle, really, but I'm making progress,
and his has been nothing short of miraculous. He's happy, loves unschooling
and free learning, is adjusting beautifully in many, many ways. I've got my
bright and eager, irrepressible son back, and for that I will be forever
grateful.
I've hit a bump, though, and need some input.
We've been busy with deschooling over the last year and a half, staying
connected to learning through many of the recommended means -- museum trips,
watching movies and reading books of all kinds, late nights watching meteor
showers, simply playing and living, etc. He has taken the apprenticeship
concept deeply to heart and now works with a local university's coastal
studies program and with a small computer company, building systems,
initiating these activities on his own. No problems there.
He is just recently starting to enthusiastically reach out to opportunities
for more structured learning on his own.
What's been happening, though, is that he will express an interest in
something, will make an attempt at pursuing that interest for himself, and
will be unable to follow through effectively. I wasn't concerned about this
at first, figuring that it was part of the process. Plus, he was
experimenting. Not every area of interest was going to work into a genuine
pursuit, you know?
The problem now is that it's happening so frequently, and he's beginning to
experience some frustration. Most significantly, he's now starting to ask me
-- with some regularity -- to sign him up for classes in these areas of
interest. While I am not opposed to classes, in and of themselves, I am
coming to believe that he hasn't yet developed the necessary faith in his
ability to learn on his own, and I don't know how to help him over this hump.
He wants to play the guitar, for instance. He knows kids who have taught
themselves. I make sure he has time to hang out with them and that he has
the needed tools. He has learned some basic chords and tips from his aunt.
He began enthusiastically enough, but it didn't come easily and he tells me
that he needs a teacher.
He wants to learn basic computer programming. He begs me to take him to the
store to find self-guided books on the subject. I also help him find online
tutorials. He plays with these things for an hour or two, it doesn't come
easily, he tells me he wants to take a class.
He spends a Sunday morning flipping hotcakes for a youth breakfast, has a
blast, and tells me he wants to lean more about cooking. I'm a pretty decent
cook myself and could use the help in the kitchen anyway. I tell him, sure.
What would you like to cook? We could start with Chinese (his favorite -- as
a matter of fact we've cooked a very successful authentic Chinese meal
together before), but no. He wants to take a culinary arts class at the
local community college.
Is it just me, or is there a pattern here?
I don't know if I've given you enough information (despite the length of this
post) to make an accurate diagnosis, so you might want to ask me some
clarifying questions.
It seems to me, though, that he is beginning to recover his lively
appreciation of learning, but has no faith in his ability to move forward
under his own power. He falls repeatedly back into the passive posture of
thinking that he needs someone else to teach it to him.
My gut is telling me that he is having trouble overcoming his own ps
conditioning, but I don't quite know how to help him through this phase of
the transition.
Any and all ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Laura B.
addressed, so here goes. (Be gentle with me -- it's my first time :-)
My ds is now almost 15 and liberated himself from the educational system a
year and a half ago, after being rather brutally oppressed by that system for
over 8 years. By the time I snapped to the reality and to our options, and
by the time I convinced everyone (including him) to give hs'ing a try, his
intellectual curiosity and joy for learning, which had always been such a key
part of him, had almost completely been extinguished. Because of the clear
damage done to him and because I identified him as a kinesthetic learner and
a random-abstract thinker, we embraced unschooling from the very beginning.
Overcoming my own programming, and relaxing through the deschooling process
has probably been our most difficult hurdle, really, but I'm making progress,
and his has been nothing short of miraculous. He's happy, loves unschooling
and free learning, is adjusting beautifully in many, many ways. I've got my
bright and eager, irrepressible son back, and for that I will be forever
grateful.
I've hit a bump, though, and need some input.
We've been busy with deschooling over the last year and a half, staying
connected to learning through many of the recommended means -- museum trips,
watching movies and reading books of all kinds, late nights watching meteor
showers, simply playing and living, etc. He has taken the apprenticeship
concept deeply to heart and now works with a local university's coastal
studies program and with a small computer company, building systems,
initiating these activities on his own. No problems there.
He is just recently starting to enthusiastically reach out to opportunities
for more structured learning on his own.
What's been happening, though, is that he will express an interest in
something, will make an attempt at pursuing that interest for himself, and
will be unable to follow through effectively. I wasn't concerned about this
at first, figuring that it was part of the process. Plus, he was
experimenting. Not every area of interest was going to work into a genuine
pursuit, you know?
The problem now is that it's happening so frequently, and he's beginning to
experience some frustration. Most significantly, he's now starting to ask me
-- with some regularity -- to sign him up for classes in these areas of
interest. While I am not opposed to classes, in and of themselves, I am
coming to believe that he hasn't yet developed the necessary faith in his
ability to learn on his own, and I don't know how to help him over this hump.
He wants to play the guitar, for instance. He knows kids who have taught
themselves. I make sure he has time to hang out with them and that he has
the needed tools. He has learned some basic chords and tips from his aunt.
He began enthusiastically enough, but it didn't come easily and he tells me
that he needs a teacher.
He wants to learn basic computer programming. He begs me to take him to the
store to find self-guided books on the subject. I also help him find online
tutorials. He plays with these things for an hour or two, it doesn't come
easily, he tells me he wants to take a class.
He spends a Sunday morning flipping hotcakes for a youth breakfast, has a
blast, and tells me he wants to lean more about cooking. I'm a pretty decent
cook myself and could use the help in the kitchen anyway. I tell him, sure.
What would you like to cook? We could start with Chinese (his favorite -- as
a matter of fact we've cooked a very successful authentic Chinese meal
together before), but no. He wants to take a culinary arts class at the
local community college.
Is it just me, or is there a pattern here?
I don't know if I've given you enough information (despite the length of this
post) to make an accurate diagnosis, so you might want to ask me some
clarifying questions.
It seems to me, though, that he is beginning to recover his lively
appreciation of learning, but has no faith in his ability to move forward
under his own power. He falls repeatedly back into the passive posture of
thinking that he needs someone else to teach it to him.
My gut is telling me that he is having trouble overcoming his own ps
conditioning, but I don't quite know how to help him through this phase of
the transition.
Any and all ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Laura B.
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/21/03 9:28:42 PM, LauraBourdo@... writes:
<< It seems to me, though, that he is beginning to recover his lively
appreciation of learning, but has no faith in his ability to move forward
under his own power. >>
If you can afford to, I would let him sign up for those classes. He doesn't
have to commit to any two-year culinary institute just to take one class.
And the others sound like things he just wants to see someone ELSE do,
honestly.
Plus... Maybe he wants to meet people.
And seeing someone else cook and THEN seeing you cook will be so much more
three-dimensional for him, both as to cooking and socially.
And if you're right and he think learning some things is easier with classes,
could be that's true for him, or it could be that going back and taking a few
classes will remind him of how much frustration comes with the instruction.
Or not.
I'm not trying to be wishy washy. I'm trying to remind you that avoiding ALL
lessons and instruction can be too much. Some things do need a teacher.
I tried several times to teach myself calligraphy. I needed a lesson. I
needed one session with a teacher to teach me how to use the pens and ink,
what angle what was, what those little angle marks and stuff meant in the
calligraphy manuals, and I was off.
One guitar lesson is all I ever had, but I really needed that one lesson.
Someone needed (again) to teach me the lingo, to see how I was holding it and
coach me, to show me what to watch for when I watched other guitar player,
and how chord charts worked.
Some people learn lots better from seeing and hearing and thinking than from
reading and trying. And different things are learned different ways by the
same person.
I don't think it's lack of faith. I think it's growing up and good
indications of real interest (at least in getting out of the house where
other people are).
Sandra
<< It seems to me, though, that he is beginning to recover his lively
appreciation of learning, but has no faith in his ability to move forward
under his own power. >>
If you can afford to, I would let him sign up for those classes. He doesn't
have to commit to any two-year culinary institute just to take one class.
And the others sound like things he just wants to see someone ELSE do,
honestly.
Plus... Maybe he wants to meet people.
And seeing someone else cook and THEN seeing you cook will be so much more
three-dimensional for him, both as to cooking and socially.
And if you're right and he think learning some things is easier with classes,
could be that's true for him, or it could be that going back and taking a few
classes will remind him of how much frustration comes with the instruction.
Or not.
I'm not trying to be wishy washy. I'm trying to remind you that avoiding ALL
lessons and instruction can be too much. Some things do need a teacher.
I tried several times to teach myself calligraphy. I needed a lesson. I
needed one session with a teacher to teach me how to use the pens and ink,
what angle what was, what those little angle marks and stuff meant in the
calligraphy manuals, and I was off.
One guitar lesson is all I ever had, but I really needed that one lesson.
Someone needed (again) to teach me the lingo, to see how I was holding it and
coach me, to show me what to watch for when I watched other guitar player,
and how chord charts worked.
Some people learn lots better from seeing and hearing and thinking than from
reading and trying. And different things are learned different ways by the
same person.
I don't think it's lack of faith. I think it's growing up and good
indications of real interest (at least in getting out of the house where
other people are).
Sandra
jmcseals SEALS
I say, contact your local rec center and see if they offer classes that will
git his interests. Personally, I see NO problem wanting to take a class, so
long as it is the child initiating the request. Sometimes it IS
easier...and even more FUN...to take a class with other people with similar
interests. Unschooling, for me, is not the rejection of being taught by
choice, it is the rejection of being taught by *force* or imposition.
Rec centers are usually quite reasonably priced and the terms are often
short...8 weeks or so. Just enough to get his feet wet and give him that
bit of confidence he seems to be seeking. It's worth a shot!
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
git his interests. Personally, I see NO problem wanting to take a class, so
long as it is the child initiating the request. Sometimes it IS
easier...and even more FUN...to take a class with other people with similar
interests. Unschooling, for me, is not the rejection of being taught by
choice, it is the rejection of being taught by *force* or imposition.
Rec centers are usually quite reasonably priced and the terms are often
short...8 weeks or so. Just enough to get his feet wet and give him that
bit of confidence he seems to be seeking. It's worth a shot!
Jennifer
_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jmcseals SEALS
>>....that will git his interests..<<Huh??? I was trying to write...go along with his interests....ah well, at
least I can't deny I am a Texan! LOL I had a pop up so I guess it must have
interrupted what I was writing.
Jennifer
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**He spends a Sunday morning flipping hotcakes for a youth breakfast,
has a
blast, and tells me he wants to lean more about cooking. I'm a pretty
decent
cook myself and could use the help in the kitchen anyway. I tell him,
sure.
What would you like to cook? We could start with Chinese (his favorite
-- as
a matter of fact we've cooked a very successful authentic Chinese meal
together before), but no. He wants to take a culinary arts class at the
local community college.
Is it just me, or is there a pattern here? **
A small part of the pattern could be that he just wants to get out of
the house? (I'm sympathetic because it's been raining pretty frequently
here and I'm starting to loathe staying home.)
Betsy
has a
blast, and tells me he wants to lean more about cooking. I'm a pretty
decent
cook myself and could use the help in the kitchen anyway. I tell him,
sure.
What would you like to cook? We could start with Chinese (his favorite
-- as
a matter of fact we've cooked a very successful authentic Chinese meal
together before), but no. He wants to take a culinary arts class at the
local community college.
Is it just me, or is there a pattern here? **
A small part of the pattern could be that he just wants to get out of
the house? (I'm sympathetic because it's been raining pretty frequently
here and I'm starting to loathe staying home.)
Betsy
Tia Leschke
>At that age, he may also be wanting time out in the world away from parent,
> **He spends a Sunday morning flipping hotcakes for a youth breakfast,
> has a
> blast, and tells me he wants to lean more about cooking. I'm a pretty
> decent
> cook myself and could use the help in the kitchen anyway. I tell him,
> sure.
> What would you like to cook? We could start with Chinese (his favorite
> -- as
> a matter of fact we've cooked a very successful authentic Chinese meal
> together before), but no. He wants to take a culinary arts class at the
> local community college.
>
> Is it just me, or is there a pattern here? **
>
>
> A small part of the pattern could be that he just wants to get out of
> the house? (I'm sympathetic because it's been raining pretty frequently
> here and I'm starting to loathe staying home.)
but not full-time like school.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...