Another parenting question
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/03 8:02:54 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< It was entirely hypothetical and rhetorical. There is no skinhead rally.
It
was an example. >>
I really can't see how a child raised the way we're describing here would
EVER want to be at an event like that.
My children love all people with no regards to color or culture. They are
interested in other cultures, they've NEVER been taught that ours is the end
all be all of countries and that white skin is better than any other.
That's like saying the red in the rainbow is the only good color and all the
others are ugly and awful.
It wouldn't make any sense to them. All the rainbows colors are what make it
beautiful.
People that end up at skin head rallies are either not nurtured and loved at
home enough or taught the prejudice at home.
I just can't see it coming from a loving family that truly respects and
honors their child.
We have a couple of neighbor kids that spend almost every day over here.
I can't see my children one day saying "I hate Trai and Shay because they're
black Mom." It isn't going to happen.
And if it did?
I would NEVER be party to anyone wanting to promote hatred and intolerance.
Whether they're my kids are not, I have personal boundaries.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< It was entirely hypothetical and rhetorical. There is no skinhead rally.
It
was an example. >>
I really can't see how a child raised the way we're describing here would
EVER want to be at an event like that.
My children love all people with no regards to color or culture. They are
interested in other cultures, they've NEVER been taught that ours is the end
all be all of countries and that white skin is better than any other.
That's like saying the red in the rainbow is the only good color and all the
others are ugly and awful.
It wouldn't make any sense to them. All the rainbows colors are what make it
beautiful.
People that end up at skin head rallies are either not nurtured and loved at
home enough or taught the prejudice at home.
I just can't see it coming from a loving family that truly respects and
honors their child.
We have a couple of neighbor kids that spend almost every day over here.
I can't see my children one day saying "I hate Trai and Shay because they're
black Mom." It isn't going to happen.
And if it did?
I would NEVER be party to anyone wanting to promote hatred and intolerance.
Whether they're my kids are not, I have personal boundaries.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2003 11:02:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
(Kristen?) had a situation she's uncomfortable with and posted for help
without elaborating.
My 15 year old was "into" the Goth look for a while. Not MY favorite, but I
didn't shame or ridicule. I even bought him his own eye-liner and nail
polish. I secretly HOPED this would be over soon---and it was. I'm guessing
that, had I treated him as many parents I know would have, he'd STILL be
doing it. It lasted less than six months (six LONG months! <G>).
Most of the "unusual" or "outside the norm/traditional" things he tries are
short-lived. Experimentation. He's very up front about it all. No "hiding".
If Kristen would be more specific, maybe we could give better advice.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> People that end up at skin head rallies are either not nurtured and loved atThe skinhead thing was Sandra's "off-the-cuff" example. Someone else
>
> home enough or taught the prejudice at home.
> I just can't see it coming from a loving family that truly respects and
> honors their child.
(Kristen?) had a situation she's uncomfortable with and posted for help
without elaborating.
My 15 year old was "into" the Goth look for a while. Not MY favorite, but I
didn't shame or ridicule. I even bought him his own eye-liner and nail
polish. I secretly HOPED this would be over soon---and it was. I'm guessing
that, had I treated him as many parents I know would have, he'd STILL be
doing it. It lasted less than six months (six LONG months! <G>).
Most of the "unusual" or "outside the norm/traditional" things he tries are
short-lived. Experimentation. He's very up front about it all. No "hiding".
If Kristen would be more specific, maybe we could give better advice.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/03 11:07:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< ah. Yeah, wouldn't enjoy that at all.
The KKK still going? I thought that was a 30's thing? >>
I didn't realize it until I moved to the South, but they're still going
strong.
A bit quieter than in the 30's since the law is NOT going to support burning
crosses and such now. Thank goodness.
When I first moved down to this area, I saw a huge rally being advertised in
the paper.
It was all I could do to not turn around and head back North at that
point....I wanted to stand on the rooftops and scream "What is WRONG with all
of you?"
They aren't a very vocal or loud presence, I haven't heard anything about
them since that advertisement five years ago. But I know they're around,
skulking and slithering under the rocks from whence they came.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< ah. Yeah, wouldn't enjoy that at all.
The KKK still going? I thought that was a 30's thing? >>
I didn't realize it until I moved to the South, but they're still going
strong.
A bit quieter than in the 30's since the law is NOT going to support burning
crosses and such now. Thank goodness.
When I first moved down to this area, I saw a huge rally being advertised in
the paper.
It was all I could do to not turn around and head back North at that
point....I wanted to stand on the rooftops and scream "What is WRONG with all
of you?"
They aren't a very vocal or loud presence, I haven't heard anything about
them since that advertisement five years ago. But I know they're around,
skulking and slithering under the rocks from whence they came.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
Sorcha
When I first went to college, I was shocked that there was going to be a
KKK rally downtown at the capitol building. In Columbus OH. So it's not
just the south, though most of the people attending the Columbus rally
were protesting the KKK.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KKK rally downtown at the capitol building. In Columbus OH. So it's not
just the south, though most of the people attending the Columbus rally
were protesting the KKK.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/03 11:07:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< Most of the "unusual" or "outside the norm/traditional" things he tries
are
short-lived. Experimentation. He's very up front about it all. No "hiding".
Trevor does the black nail polish once in a while. I think the fascination is
already worn off though. I don't like the look, but I smiled and said
"whatever you like, it's YOUR body" and his Dad is extremely protective of
his kids wearing and looking like whatever they choose.
Because of that, he knows that he can play with these looks and have a
supportive environment.
I feel that ideas are the same. If he wanted to mess around with dangerous
ideas, he knows he doesn't have to hide it, he can talk to us AND he values
our input.
Kids that get "sucked into" groups or ideas are perhaps over sheltered or
have been shamed so much they just want to fit in ANYWHERE.
I don't have kids that are needy that way.
They are very sure of who they are, I doubt some pervasive thought or group
is going to "suck" them anywhere.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< Most of the "unusual" or "outside the norm/traditional" things he tries
are
short-lived. Experimentation. He's very up front about it all. No "hiding".
>>Yeah, same here.
Trevor does the black nail polish once in a while. I think the fascination is
already worn off though. I don't like the look, but I smiled and said
"whatever you like, it's YOUR body" and his Dad is extremely protective of
his kids wearing and looking like whatever they choose.
Because of that, he knows that he can play with these looks and have a
supportive environment.
I feel that ideas are the same. If he wanted to mess around with dangerous
ideas, he knows he doesn't have to hide it, he can talk to us AND he values
our input.
Kids that get "sucked into" groups or ideas are perhaps over sheltered or
have been shamed so much they just want to fit in ANYWHERE.
I don't have kids that are needy that way.
They are very sure of who they are, I doubt some pervasive thought or group
is going to "suck" them anywhere.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
sablehs
Yes it was in North Carolina Greensboro {close to me} severall people got killed in the 1970's.
http://www.gjf.org/Bio.htmlAnd local WRAL news says still alive and well. {July 24, 2002}http://www.wral.com/news/1575310/detail.html Tracy
In a message dated 4/15/03 11:07:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< ah. Yeah, wouldn't enjoy that at all.
The KKK still going? I thought that was a 30's thing? >>
I didn't realize it until I moved to the South, but they're still going
strong.
A bit quieter than in the 30's since the law is NOT going to support burning
crosses and such now.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
http://www.gjf.org/Bio.htmlAnd local WRAL news says still alive and well. {July 24, 2002}http://www.wral.com/news/1575310/detail.html Tracy
In a message dated 4/15/03 11:07:18 AM Central Daylight Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< ah. Yeah, wouldn't enjoy that at all.
The KKK still going? I thought that was a 30's thing? >>
I didn't realize it until I moved to the South, but they're still going
strong.
A bit quieter than in the 30's since the law is NOT going to support burning
crosses and such now.
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
>>>If Kristen would be more specific, maybe we could give better advice.<<<I understand that my vagueness makes it more difficult to give advice, but I have been reading, thinking about, and appreciating very much the discussion so far.
THanks to all who posted.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/15/2003 7:11:34 PM Central Daylight Time,
windystreet@... writes:
with some of the things they have done. Both boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just haven't heard this one.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
windystreet@... writes:
> I like hearing things like this. My son, who is 8, has been wearing aNow this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys, and I think I am pretty cool
> bra for the past year (I bought it for him and he stuffs it with the
> plastic tops from the Bionicle containers). He wears it to bed, to the
> beach, out to lunch, everywhere. He's gotten used to stares from
> people, but he is protected by me, his dad and his papa from others who
> want to comment.
>
with some of the things they have done. Both boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just haven't heard this one.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
Kristen, I have been thinking about your question. With a 24 yo
son who navigated successfully through the teen years and a true
devotee of teens, I think that in dealing with peer pressure or a
desire to do something undesirable to the parents, the key is to
be specific and concrete - and ready to listen to why you are
wrong. That has to build on the relationship and the
conversations you have already had of course.
When I was 8, my mother told me I could leave any time. Now sit
back down and pick up your jaw. It was the best and most loving
thing imaginable, because what she told me was that any
"obedience" was a matter of choice. At 8 it was quite likely
that I could manage reasonably well on my own in many ways. I
think she was wrong, but she had been told the same thing at 8,
when perhaps it was accurate. The point she was making and that
I took from the conversation to raise our kids has been that
listening to parents is a choice that they are free to make or
not.. That is a bottom line truth you can't get around, whether
or not you say so openly. For me knowing that I was free - and
telling our kids explicitly that they were free to chose how
heavily to weigh our opinion is very beneficial honesty. You
have to be worth listening to - not hip or permissive or blind,
but clear headed and reasonable and articulate
For example - with no warranty that any specific discussion was
had with any particular child, LOL.
Drugs and alcohol - perfectly normal and acceptable behavior.
The drive to intoxication is found even in rats. Arrest records
suck; some drugs have serious and immediate consequences for some
people. From there it was very easy to get to the place that he
and his friends were perfectly welcome to drink at our house,
provided they brought a toothbrush (no DUI's allowed, that
endangers others with your choice). The couple of friends he had
who would drink to excess if given a chance didn't get invited
back for the all night gaming sessions and band jams - they
tended to throw up or pass out and not be any fun. Pot similarly
should not be smoked on the lakeshore in the well known drug
selling spot. One is likely to score an arrest. Come home, but
preferably smoke it outside; the smell lingers. Do not use any
intoxicant often enough that you are in the habit of living in an
altered state or that your normal state is overly concerned with
funding intoxication. Be aware of your sources for illegal
drugs - remember their interest is in their profits, not your
pleasure. They are marketing just as seriously as the Saturday
morning cartoon advertisers. If you want something very
seriously illegal along those line, let me or Dad get it for you;
we really are more worldly wise as to risks and how tos (2
lawyers are like that, LOL).
Generally illegal activities - the "malum in se" is "malum"
whether or not prohibited. The "malum prohibitum" should
generally be avoided as a general respect for legitimate
authority. Specific cases are open for full exploration. Thus,
at 13 I taught him to drive. Not because I was a fan of illegal
driving, but because we live in the middle of no where.
Violating the age restriction on driving was balanced with a
personal safety issue of being able to skeedaddle if needed.
Bad Company/"Losers" - Where you spend your time develops your
habits and determines a lot of your future. Don't use a
chocolate cake mix hoping for oatmeal cookies. Investigate
everything you like, but do not neglect to evaluate what you
investigated. The shaved head phase of teenaged-ness only lasted
one hair cut cycle, thank God. I never thought he would be a
skin head at any serious level, but the reaction he got from
folks who looked at his scalp and jumped to conclusions sealed
the fate of any such romantic/limited world view. A corollary to
that is do not do anything permanent and irremediable until you
have a chance to step away and evaluate what you have
investigated. The first night at the pool hall is not the time
to have a snake tattooed on your forehead. You'll have time
enough for that and will not be "forbidden" to go back and get
it, if you still want it.
Sex - Good stuff. you're gonna love it. It's a decision you
have to make. We believe the following and offer the following
examples as evidence.
and so on - you just have to be very clear in your own mind what
you believe and why - then don't lose brand credibility by taking
untenable positions.
son who navigated successfully through the teen years and a true
devotee of teens, I think that in dealing with peer pressure or a
desire to do something undesirable to the parents, the key is to
be specific and concrete - and ready to listen to why you are
wrong. That has to build on the relationship and the
conversations you have already had of course.
When I was 8, my mother told me I could leave any time. Now sit
back down and pick up your jaw. It was the best and most loving
thing imaginable, because what she told me was that any
"obedience" was a matter of choice. At 8 it was quite likely
that I could manage reasonably well on my own in many ways. I
think she was wrong, but she had been told the same thing at 8,
when perhaps it was accurate. The point she was making and that
I took from the conversation to raise our kids has been that
listening to parents is a choice that they are free to make or
not.. That is a bottom line truth you can't get around, whether
or not you say so openly. For me knowing that I was free - and
telling our kids explicitly that they were free to chose how
heavily to weigh our opinion is very beneficial honesty. You
have to be worth listening to - not hip or permissive or blind,
but clear headed and reasonable and articulate
For example - with no warranty that any specific discussion was
had with any particular child, LOL.
Drugs and alcohol - perfectly normal and acceptable behavior.
The drive to intoxication is found even in rats. Arrest records
suck; some drugs have serious and immediate consequences for some
people. From there it was very easy to get to the place that he
and his friends were perfectly welcome to drink at our house,
provided they brought a toothbrush (no DUI's allowed, that
endangers others with your choice). The couple of friends he had
who would drink to excess if given a chance didn't get invited
back for the all night gaming sessions and band jams - they
tended to throw up or pass out and not be any fun. Pot similarly
should not be smoked on the lakeshore in the well known drug
selling spot. One is likely to score an arrest. Come home, but
preferably smoke it outside; the smell lingers. Do not use any
intoxicant often enough that you are in the habit of living in an
altered state or that your normal state is overly concerned with
funding intoxication. Be aware of your sources for illegal
drugs - remember their interest is in their profits, not your
pleasure. They are marketing just as seriously as the Saturday
morning cartoon advertisers. If you want something very
seriously illegal along those line, let me or Dad get it for you;
we really are more worldly wise as to risks and how tos (2
lawyers are like that, LOL).
Generally illegal activities - the "malum in se" is "malum"
whether or not prohibited. The "malum prohibitum" should
generally be avoided as a general respect for legitimate
authority. Specific cases are open for full exploration. Thus,
at 13 I taught him to drive. Not because I was a fan of illegal
driving, but because we live in the middle of no where.
Violating the age restriction on driving was balanced with a
personal safety issue of being able to skeedaddle if needed.
Bad Company/"Losers" - Where you spend your time develops your
habits and determines a lot of your future. Don't use a
chocolate cake mix hoping for oatmeal cookies. Investigate
everything you like, but do not neglect to evaluate what you
investigated. The shaved head phase of teenaged-ness only lasted
one hair cut cycle, thank God. I never thought he would be a
skin head at any serious level, but the reaction he got from
folks who looked at his scalp and jumped to conclusions sealed
the fate of any such romantic/limited world view. A corollary to
that is do not do anything permanent and irremediable until you
have a chance to step away and evaluate what you have
investigated. The first night at the pool hall is not the time
to have a snake tattooed on your forehead. You'll have time
enough for that and will not be "forbidden" to go back and get
it, if you still want it.
Sex - Good stuff. you're gonna love it. It's a decision you
have to make. We believe the following and offer the following
examples as evidence.
and so on - you just have to be very clear in your own mind what
you believe and why - then don't lose brand credibility by taking
untenable positions.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Have a Nice Day!" <litlrooh@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 4:03 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Another parenting question
| >>>If Kristen would be more specific, maybe we could give
better advice.<<<
|
| I understand that my vagueness makes it more difficult to give
advice, but I have been reading, thinking about, and appreciating
very much the discussion so far.
|
| THanks to all who posted.
|
| Kristen
|
|
Mary
From: <encadia@...>
<<Now this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys, and I think I am pretty cool
with some of the things they have done. Both boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just haven't heard this one.>>
I have to agree with this one also. This made me start to think about things
that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out in public. This would
definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem the same as colored hair or
nail polish. My son had dolls and still does. My girls have boy things to
play with also. This just seems way different than that too. Not at all in
my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is generally pretty wide.
Mary B
<<Now this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys, and I think I am pretty cool
with some of the things they have done. Both boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just haven't heard this one.>>
I have to agree with this one also. This made me start to think about things
that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out in public. This would
definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem the same as colored hair or
nail polish. My son had dolls and still does. My girls have boy things to
play with also. This just seems way different than that too. Not at all in
my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is generally pretty wide.
Mary B
Jeff & Kate Kerr
*** <encadia@a...>
<<Now this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys,
and I think I am pretty cool
with some of the things they have done. Both
boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using
balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own
music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let
him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just
haven't heard this one.>>
I have to agree with this one also. This made
me start to think about things
that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out
in public. This would
definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem
the same as colored hair or
nail polish. My son had dolls and still does.
My girls have boy things to
play with also. This just seems way different
than that too. Not at all in
my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is
generally pretty wide.
Mary B***
Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group
doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
unschoolers think.
I really thought some one would understand. ;(
Bye,
Kate
<<Now this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys,
and I think I am pretty cool
with some of the things they have done. Both
boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using
balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own
music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let
him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just
haven't heard this one.>>
I have to agree with this one also. This made
me start to think about things
that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out
in public. This would
definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem
the same as colored hair or
nail polish. My son had dolls and still does.
My girls have boy things to
play with also. This just seems way different
than that too. Not at all in
my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is
generally pretty wide.
Mary B***
Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group
doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
unschoolers think.
I really thought some one would understand. ;(
Bye,
Kate
sevenhavei
This made me start to think about things
was a bit taken aback by an 8 yr old wearing a bra in public. BUT,
once we started talking, I gained a whole new perspective. We (bgf
and I) went to high school with a girl named Michelle, who dressed
like a boy and went by the name Mitch in school. She even used the
boys restroom, all of it. Most people didn't even know she was a
girl, so I assume the teachers even called her Mitch. Not sure
though as I never had a class with her, we just rode the bus to and
from school together.
Anyway, we started talking about Michelle and if she were our own
child, if we would allow her to use a men's restroom in public.
Eventually, we both agreed we would. (This ended up being about a 2
hour conversation.) I recall seeing a show on Maury Povich about
transvestites/transsexuals and one mother/son couple really amazed
me. The mother completely accepted her son as a woman. Called her
by her feminine name and introduced her as her daughter. It had
been over 10 years since she had seen her 'son' and the purpose of
the show was for the moms to see their boys again. She cried like a
baby when he walked out in a suit. He was ok with that. They both
looked at it like this mother had lost her son, almost like he had
died and she now had a daughter. She viewed them as two different
people. He knew she accepted him now as a woman but let her grive
the loss of her son.
Basically, my point is this... I'm NOT suggesting an 8 yr old that
wears a bra is gay nor wants to be a woman. BUT, what if in the
future, he does?? I don't see how stifling his needs now will ever
help him, or his relationship with his parents or anyone for that
matter. Maybe he simply wants to be like his Mom! Obviously, he is
very well grounded and self confident, otherwise he couldnt take the
flack he gets in public and occasionally from his best pal.
Our children need to feel love and acceptance from us at every
moment in their lives. I would not allow my child to use drugs
because our golden rule has been, 'so long as it doesn't harm
yourself or others'. My brother died from a heroine overdose, it
was the first time he used it. My children are very aware of that,
as Mike only passed away a year ago. I do struggle with whether or
not I should allow my 12 year old to dye her beautiful blonde hair
black and hot pink, but I'm working on it and have not said no, I
just havent said yes yet!. I think we all, as parents, have
our 'ideals', our wishes for our children. But they are not us.
They have to carve their own path and we must follow them with our
arms and hearts open wide. Sometimes, it just takes a different
perspective.
Just something to think about.
Jennifer
> that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out in public. This wouldhair or
> definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem the same as colored
> nail polish. My son had dolls and still does. My girls have boythings to
> play with also. This just seems way different than that too. Notat all in
> my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is generally prettywide.
>My best friend and I were discussing this last night. Admittedly, I
> Mary B
was a bit taken aback by an 8 yr old wearing a bra in public. BUT,
once we started talking, I gained a whole new perspective. We (bgf
and I) went to high school with a girl named Michelle, who dressed
like a boy and went by the name Mitch in school. She even used the
boys restroom, all of it. Most people didn't even know she was a
girl, so I assume the teachers even called her Mitch. Not sure
though as I never had a class with her, we just rode the bus to and
from school together.
Anyway, we started talking about Michelle and if she were our own
child, if we would allow her to use a men's restroom in public.
Eventually, we both agreed we would. (This ended up being about a 2
hour conversation.) I recall seeing a show on Maury Povich about
transvestites/transsexuals and one mother/son couple really amazed
me. The mother completely accepted her son as a woman. Called her
by her feminine name and introduced her as her daughter. It had
been over 10 years since she had seen her 'son' and the purpose of
the show was for the moms to see their boys again. She cried like a
baby when he walked out in a suit. He was ok with that. They both
looked at it like this mother had lost her son, almost like he had
died and she now had a daughter. She viewed them as two different
people. He knew she accepted him now as a woman but let her grive
the loss of her son.
Basically, my point is this... I'm NOT suggesting an 8 yr old that
wears a bra is gay nor wants to be a woman. BUT, what if in the
future, he does?? I don't see how stifling his needs now will ever
help him, or his relationship with his parents or anyone for that
matter. Maybe he simply wants to be like his Mom! Obviously, he is
very well grounded and self confident, otherwise he couldnt take the
flack he gets in public and occasionally from his best pal.
Our children need to feel love and acceptance from us at every
moment in their lives. I would not allow my child to use drugs
because our golden rule has been, 'so long as it doesn't harm
yourself or others'. My brother died from a heroine overdose, it
was the first time he used it. My children are very aware of that,
as Mike only passed away a year ago. I do struggle with whether or
not I should allow my 12 year old to dye her beautiful blonde hair
black and hot pink, but I'm working on it and have not said no, I
just havent said yes yet!. I think we all, as parents, have
our 'ideals', our wishes for our children. But they are not us.
They have to carve their own path and we must follow them with our
arms and hearts open wide. Sometimes, it just takes a different
perspective.
Just something to think about.
Jennifer
coyote's corner
This is a tough one. If he really wants to do this, and he's okay with the comments - then I guess it's ok.
You will have to teach him lots & lots of self defense. As he gets older, the chances of violence greatly increases.
Maybe he's a cross dresser in the making. I know a few and they're both homosexual and heterosexual.
Janis
You will have to teach him lots & lots of self defense. As he gets older, the chances of violence greatly increases.
Maybe he's a cross dresser in the making. I know a few and they're both homosexual and heterosexual.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Another parenting question
From: <encadia@...>
<<Now this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys, and I think I am pretty cool
with some of the things they have done. Both boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just haven't heard this one.>>
I have to agree with this one also. This made me start to think about things
that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out in public. This would
definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem the same as colored hair or
nail polish. My son had dolls and still does. My girls have boy things to
play with also. This just seems way different than that too. Not at all in
my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is generally pretty wide.
Mary B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/16/03 11:41:20 AM, windystreet@... writes:
<< Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group
doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
unschoolers think.
<<I really thought some one would understand. ;( >>
I understand.
Some people live in really conservative places where it might not go over so
well.
We had a neighbor who came to our house and played dress-up. Always the
princess. He got in trouble if his mom knew, so we helped him hide it.
I used to think he was destined to grow up gay. He loved Judy Garland and
The Wizard of Oz. (Stereotype, but some are built on something real! <g>)
After reading about Eddie Izzard now and talking to some other people, maybe
he just loved costumes and wanted to explore what female stuff was like, and
think about it without it having ANYTHING to do with sexual preference.
At the HSC conference they had different MCs each hour for the (three or four
hour, wonderful) talent show. One was a teenaged boy in totally vamped-up
drag.
Sandra
<< Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group
doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
unschoolers think.
<<I really thought some one would understand. ;( >>
I understand.
Some people live in really conservative places where it might not go over so
well.
We had a neighbor who came to our house and played dress-up. Always the
princess. He got in trouble if his mom knew, so we helped him hide it.
I used to think he was destined to grow up gay. He loved Judy Garland and
The Wizard of Oz. (Stereotype, but some are built on something real! <g>)
After reading about Eddie Izzard now and talking to some other people, maybe
he just loved costumes and wanted to explore what female stuff was like, and
think about it without it having ANYTHING to do with sexual preference.
At the HSC conference they had different MCs each hour for the (three or four
hour, wonderful) talent show. One was a teenaged boy in totally vamped-up
drag.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
> Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this groupThis unschooler thinks you're doing the right thing for your child.
> doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
> My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
> unschoolers think.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Jeff & Kate Kerr
****This unschooler thinks you're doing the right thing for your child.
Tia****
Thanks Tia. That means a lot to me.
Robin says, on the subject, that it's his decision not mine anyway. And
if you make that decision for him or her then "they might not want to be
around you when they grow up. In the world of kids, it's a good thing
to say yes." Robin, age 8.
Just thought I'd pass that on.
Kate
who is cleaning house today - yuck
Tia****
Thanks Tia. That means a lot to me.
Robin says, on the subject, that it's his decision not mine anyway. And
if you make that decision for him or her then "they might not want to be
around you when they grow up. In the world of kids, it's a good thing
to say yes." Robin, age 8.
Just thought I'd pass that on.
Kate
who is cleaning house today - yuck
coyote's corner
Jennifer,
This is such a wonderful post. Thanks so much.
Janis
This is such a wonderful post. Thanks so much.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: sevenhavei
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 2:13 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Another parenting question
This made me start to think about things
> that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out in public. This would
> definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem the same as colored
hair or
> nail polish. My son had dolls and still does. My girls have boy
things to
> play with also. This just seems way different than that too. Not
at all in
> my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is generally pretty
wide.
>
> Mary B
My best friend and I were discussing this last night. Admittedly, I
was a bit taken aback by an 8 yr old wearing a bra in public. BUT,
once we started talking, I gained a whole new perspective. We (bgf
and I) went to high school with a girl named Michelle, who dressed
like a boy and went by the name Mitch in school. She even used the
boys restroom, all of it. Most people didn't even know she was a
girl, so I assume the teachers even called her Mitch. Not sure
though as I never had a class with her, we just rode the bus to and
from school together.
Anyway, we started talking about Michelle and if she were our own
child, if we would allow her to use a men's restroom in public.
Eventually, we both agreed we would. (This ended up being about a 2
hour conversation.) I recall seeing a show on Maury Povich about
transvestites/transsexuals and one mother/son couple really amazed
me. The mother completely accepted her son as a woman. Called her
by her feminine name and introduced her as her daughter. It had
been over 10 years since she had seen her 'son' and the purpose of
the show was for the moms to see their boys again. She cried like a
baby when he walked out in a suit. He was ok with that. They both
looked at it like this mother had lost her son, almost like he had
died and she now had a daughter. She viewed them as two different
people. He knew she accepted him now as a woman but let her grive
the loss of her son.
Basically, my point is this... I'm NOT suggesting an 8 yr old that
wears a bra is gay nor wants to be a woman. BUT, what if in the
future, he does?? I don't see how stifling his needs now will ever
help him, or his relationship with his parents or anyone for that
matter. Maybe he simply wants to be like his Mom! Obviously, he is
very well grounded and self confident, otherwise he couldnt take the
flack he gets in public and occasionally from his best pal.
Our children need to feel love and acceptance from us at every
moment in their lives. I would not allow my child to use drugs
because our golden rule has been, 'so long as it doesn't harm
yourself or others'. My brother died from a heroine overdose, it
was the first time he used it. My children are very aware of that,
as Mike only passed away a year ago. I do struggle with whether or
not I should allow my 12 year old to dye her beautiful blonde hair
black and hot pink, but I'm working on it and have not said no, I
just havent said yes yet!. I think we all, as parents, have
our 'ideals', our wishes for our children. But they are not us.
They have to carve their own path and we must follow them with our
arms and hearts open wide. Sometimes, it just takes a different
perspective.
Just something to think about.
Jennifer
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
Hmm...I think what I have written may be confusing. I mean that some cross dressers are simply people that like to cross dress. Some are gay.
As your son is comfortable w/ all of this and you're comfortable - what's the problem??
As for self defense, I think every child should be able to defend him/her self. That's common sense in this world.
Good luck w/ him.
Smile - your foot is NOT in your mouth.
Sometimes immediate reactions are deceiving!!
love ya'
Janis
As your son is comfortable w/ all of this and you're comfortable - what's the problem??
As for self defense, I think every child should be able to defend him/her self. That's common sense in this world.
Good luck w/ him.
Smile - your foot is NOT in your mouth.
Sometimes immediate reactions are deceiving!!
love ya'
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: coyote's corner
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 2:35 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Another parenting question
This is a tough one. If he really wants to do this, and he's okay with the comments - then I guess it's ok.
You will have to teach him lots & lots of self defense. As he gets older, the chances of violence greatly increases.
Maybe he's a cross dresser in the making. I know a few and they're both homosexual and heterosexual.
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2003 1:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Another parenting question
From: <encadia@...>
<<Now this I haven't heard of. I have 2 boys, and I think I am pretty cool
with some of the things they have done. Both boys when young tried
girl stuff like makeup, barbies, even using balloons to show off a pair
of boobs. Glad you are dancing to your own music. I know I would not
purchase a bra for my son at any age, nor let him wear it in public.
No judgement bashing here from me, I just haven't heard this one.>>
I have to agree with this one also. This made me start to think about things
that wouldn't be okay for my child to do out in public. This would
definitely be one of them. Just doesn't seem the same as colored hair or
nail polish. My son had dolls and still does. My girls have boy things to
play with also. This just seems way different than that too. Not at all in
my comfort zone and I think my comfort zone is generally pretty wide.
Mary B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
saffronwoman
****This unschooler thinks you're doing the right thing for your child.
Tia****
Thanks Tia. That means a lot to me.
Robin says, on the subject, that it's his decision not mine anyway.
And if you make that decision for him or her then "they might not want
to be around you when they grow up. In the world of kids, it's a good
thing
to say yes." Robin, age 8.
Just thought I'd pass that on.
Kate
who is cleaning house today - yuck
Tia****
Thanks Tia. That means a lot to me.
Robin says, on the subject, that it's his decision not mine anyway.
And if you make that decision for him or her then "they might not want
to be around you when they grow up. In the world of kids, it's a good
thing
to say yes." Robin, age 8.
Just thought I'd pass that on.
Kate
who is cleaning house today - yuck
Rebecca DeLong
Tia Leschke <leschke@...> wrote:
Tia>>>
So does this one :-)
Rebecca
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
var lrec_target="_top"; var lrec_URL = new Array(); lrec_URL[1] = "http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+shopping:dmad/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=1/1050519226+http://us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://www.proflowers.com/rmi-unframed-url/http://www.proflowers.com/freechocolate/index.cfm%3FREF=FCHYahooEgroupsEasterLRECgif"; var link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)"; var lrec_flashfile = 'http://us.yimg.com/a/pr/proflowers/proflowers_easter_300x250.swf?clickTAG='+link+''; var lrec_altURL = "http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=2/id=altimgurl/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+shopping:dmad/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=3/1050519226+http://us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://www.proflowers.com/rmi-unframed-url/http://www.proflowers.com/freechocolate/index.cfm%3FREF=FCHYahooEgroupsEasterLRECgif"; var lrec_altimg = "http://us.yimg.com/a/pr/proflowers2/easter_tulip_300x250_choc.gif"; var lrec_width = 300; var lrec_height = 250;
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group<<<This unschooler thinks you're doing the right thing for your child.
> doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
> My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
> unschoolers think.
Tia>>>
So does this one :-)
Rebecca
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
var lrec_target="_top"; var lrec_URL = new Array(); lrec_URL[1] = "http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=0/id=flashurl/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+shopping:dmad/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=1/1050519226+http://us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://www.proflowers.com/rmi-unframed-url/http://www.proflowers.com/freechocolate/index.cfm%3FREF=FCHYahooEgroupsEasterLRECgif"; var link="javascript:LRECopenWindow(1)"; var lrec_flashfile = 'http://us.yimg.com/a/pr/proflowers/proflowers_easter_300x250.swf?clickTAG='+link+''; var lrec_altURL = "http://rd.yahoo.com/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=2/id=altimgurl/*http://shop.store.yahoo.com/cgi-bin/clink?proflowers2+shopping:dmad/M=231971.3069354.4492417.1728375/D=egroupweb/S=1705081972:HM/A=1540635/R=3/1050519226+http://us.rmi.yahoo.com/rmi/http://www.proflowers.com/rmi-unframed-url/http://www.proflowers.com/freechocolate/index.cfm%3FREF=FCHYahooEgroupsEasterLRECgif"; var lrec_altimg = "http://us.yimg.com/a/pr/proflowers2/easter_tulip_300x250_choc.gif"; var lrec_width = 300; var lrec_height = 250;
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sevenhavei
> ****This unschooler thinks you're doing the right thing for yourchild.
>I'm with you, too, Kate. Try not to let certain comments get your
goat. Whatever your son decides to do, he will thank you now and
forever for staying by his side and loving him through it all. You
are a better parent than most. Not many people would be willing to
do what you do with such love and respect. Your son is one lucky
little fella!
Jennifer
Tia Leschke
> Robin says, on the subject, that it's his decision not mine anyway. AndSmart kid.
> if you make that decision for him or her then "they might not want to be
> around you when they grow up. In the world of kids, it's a good thing
> to say yes." Robin, age 8.
>Yuck is right. "I *feel* your pain." <G>
> Just thought I'd pass that on.
>
> Kate
> who is cleaning house today - yuck
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Mary
From: "Jeff & Kate Kerr" <windystreet@...>
<<Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group
doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
unschoolers think.>>
Sorry your feelings are hurt just because someone doesn't understand. It's
not the group. You've had what, a whole two people not get it? Youve' had
more understanding than not.
I had more not understanding people talk about the camp my kids go to
because they pray!!!
Mary B
<<Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If this group
doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?
My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
unschoolers think.>>
Sorry your feelings are hurt just because someone doesn't understand. It's
not the group. You've had what, a whole two people not get it? Youve' had
more understanding than not.
I had more not understanding people talk about the camp my kids go to
because they pray!!!
Mary B
Mary
From: "sevenhavei" <jmcseals@...>
<<Basically, my point is this... I'm NOT suggesting an 8 yr old that
wears a bra is gay nor wants to be a woman. BUT, what if in the
future, he does?? I don't see how stifling his needs now will ever
help him, or his relationship with his parents or anyone for that
matter. Maybe he simply wants to be like his Mom! Obviously, he is
very well grounded and self confident, otherwise he couldnt take the
flack he gets in public and occasionally from his best pal. >>
I have no problem with people being different in sexual preference or gender
differences. I would support my children in any and all of these. Some
people do know at a very young age that they are different in those ways,
some don't until they get older. That's a matter of a different lifestyle
too. Not just putting on a dress and going out. It entails much more than
that.
I hesitate to really talk about it more because it's someone here who has a
child doing what we are talking about. I don't want her to feel wrong in a
decision that she feels right about. I also don't wnt her thinking I'm
judging her.
I was simply saying I wouldn't be comfortable with that. And I'm not so sure
that those who say great no problem would actually be comfortable with it
either if it was their child. It's easy to be real supportive in e-mails
just likes it's easier to disagree and argue with someone not really there.
Mary B
<<Basically, my point is this... I'm NOT suggesting an 8 yr old that
wears a bra is gay nor wants to be a woman. BUT, what if in the
future, he does?? I don't see how stifling his needs now will ever
help him, or his relationship with his parents or anyone for that
matter. Maybe he simply wants to be like his Mom! Obviously, he is
very well grounded and self confident, otherwise he couldnt take the
flack he gets in public and occasionally from his best pal. >>
I have no problem with people being different in sexual preference or gender
differences. I would support my children in any and all of these. Some
people do know at a very young age that they are different in those ways,
some don't until they get older. That's a matter of a different lifestyle
too. Not just putting on a dress and going out. It entails much more than
that.
I hesitate to really talk about it more because it's someone here who has a
child doing what we are talking about. I don't want her to feel wrong in a
decision that she feels right about. I also don't wnt her thinking I'm
judging her.
I was simply saying I wouldn't be comfortable with that. And I'm not so sure
that those who say great no problem would actually be comfortable with it
either if it was their child. It's easy to be real supportive in e-mails
just likes it's easier to disagree and argue with someone not really there.
Mary B
zenmomma2kids
> > Wow, I think I finally opened my big mouth too wide. If thisgroup
> > doesn't understand my support of my child then who will?Add me in too. I, personally, am in awe of the level of trust you
> > My feeling are actually hurt because it matters to me what other
> > unschoolers think.
>
> This unschooler thinks you're doing the right thing for your child.
> Tia
have in your son.
Life is good.
~Mary
Deborah Lewis
***I really thought some one would understand. ;(***
I do.
I would let him be just who he is, keep him safe, let him be happy and
free.
I think you're wonderful.
Deb L
I do.
I would let him be just who he is, keep him safe, let him be happy and
free.
I think you're wonderful.
Deb L
sablehs
I have watched many shows on this, the most recient one on the Discovery channel. They were talking about how hard these people have it and why on earth these people would put themselves through these things if they didn't feel they needed to do it.Also they have just reciently done research on self-identified Transgender and {being somewhat brief because I'm no expert} there is a certin look - under the microscope- to a male's brain and a female's brain. Well of the very few they have done there is still dramatic evidence that in an transgender their brains show the opposite sex features rather then their own. http://content.gay.com/people/trans_gazebo/tg_research_000814.htmlJust some food for thought.Tracy
<<I recall seeing a show on Maury Povich about
transvestites/transsexuals and one mother/son couple really amazed
me. The mother completely accepted her son as a woman. Called her
by her feminine name and introduced her as her daughter. It had
been over 10 years since she had seen her 'son' and the purpose of
the show was for the moms to see their boys again. >>
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<I recall seeing a show on Maury Povich about
transvestites/transsexuals and one mother/son couple really amazed
me. The mother completely accepted her son as a woman. Called her
by her feminine name and introduced her as her daughter. It had
been over 10 years since she had seen her 'son' and the purpose of
the show was for the moms to see their boys again. >>
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
sevenhavei
>understand. It's
> Sorry your feelings are hurt just because someone doesn't
> not the group. You've had what, a whole two people not get it?Youve' had
> more understanding than not.to
> I had more not understanding people talk about the camp my kids go
> because they pray!!!I don't think this is a 'keeping tabs' thing of who feels knocked
>
> Mary B
down. As you well know, it is easy to feel like you are being
attacked for your feelings, beliefs, words, etc. Correct me,
please, if I am wrong, but your post sounds quite sarcastic towards
her for simply stating her feelings were hurt.
I think the key is to realize we don't ALL have the same beliefs,
feelings or thoughts and some things are going to rub us the wrong
way, you know? The best thing we can do is honestly portray our
feelings and needs and let those go who simply don't get it. What
else can we do?
Jennifer
Tia Leschke
> I was simply saying I wouldn't be comfortable with that. And I'm not sosure
> that those who say great no problem would actually be comfortable with itthere.
> either if it was their child. It's easy to be real supportive in e-mails
> just likes it's easier to disagree and argue with someone not really
I think I'd be quite uncomfortable about it myself. But I'd still let him
after talking about the kinds of reactions he might get.
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
sevenhavei
And I'm not so sure
problem with it. But, as I said, last night, I gained a new
perspective. Just because we allow our children to do or not do
certain things, doesn't always mean it makes us comfortable! It
drives me nuts that my daughter wants to wear black pants and a long
sleeve black shirt outside when it's 90 degrees. *I* want her to
wear shorts because that it what *I* find comfortable. She's not
me. *She* may not even be comfortable, physically, but to her, the
*look* is what matters right now. So that's what we go with.
If we are truly on the path of following our children's leads, of
allowing them to follow their *own* leads, find what's right for
THEM, then we can't smother them with what makes us 'comfortable'.
That is our own issue, not theirs. I was simply trying to offer an
example of a situation to let your mind wander somewhere that
perhaps it had not. Offering a new perspective. I wasn't implying
that you had to agree with it. Nor am I trying to force you to feel
comfortable with it. That is a decision you have to make for
yourself. Isn't that the point of this list? To obtain
information? To find another way? I'm not asking for anyone to do
it my way, I'm just offering my thoughts for you to take and run
with or delete and forget.
Best Wishes,
Jennifer
> that those who say great no problem would actually be comfortablewith it
> either if it was their child.I'm not so sure they wouldn't! Yesterday, I would have had a
problem with it. But, as I said, last night, I gained a new
perspective. Just because we allow our children to do or not do
certain things, doesn't always mean it makes us comfortable! It
drives me nuts that my daughter wants to wear black pants and a long
sleeve black shirt outside when it's 90 degrees. *I* want her to
wear shorts because that it what *I* find comfortable. She's not
me. *She* may not even be comfortable, physically, but to her, the
*look* is what matters right now. So that's what we go with.
If we are truly on the path of following our children's leads, of
allowing them to follow their *own* leads, find what's right for
THEM, then we can't smother them with what makes us 'comfortable'.
That is our own issue, not theirs. I was simply trying to offer an
example of a situation to let your mind wander somewhere that
perhaps it had not. Offering a new perspective. I wasn't implying
that you had to agree with it. Nor am I trying to force you to feel
comfortable with it. That is a decision you have to make for
yourself. Isn't that the point of this list? To obtain
information? To find another way? I'm not asking for anyone to do
it my way, I'm just offering my thoughts for you to take and run
with or delete and forget.
Best Wishes,
Jennifer