jmcseals SEALS

Four years ago, (or so) we were a very mainstream family. I don't remember
when it started, but I heard about homeschooling and fell in love with the
idea. I began reading and by the end of the year, I decided to pull my
daughter out of school and bring her home. During those days of reading, I
became aquainted with gentle parenting, decided to have unassisted births,
use cloth diapers and threw out the bottles for extended breastfeeding. The
process has been quite gradual, for me, but for my family (and my husband
sometimes, lol) I've turned into this radical hippie overnight. I should
also add that during this process of reading and learning, I slowly drifted
from the belief system in which I was raised (Episcopalian) and began
exploring other faiths to the point that I now am left with basically no
religious beliefs whatsoever.

My children attended church off and on while they were very young, but 10
years ago, I lost my daughter to stillbirth and I suppose that's when my
religious beliefs came under intense fire from within. For some reason, now
when my children visit my grandparents house, my grandmother INSISTS on them
saying a prayer at mealtime. They actually are not allowed to eat unless
they participate (heads bowed, hands folded). I have explained to my
grandmother that they don't need to pray if they don't want to because we
don't pray at home, but I hesitate to go further because she has gotten
quite good at losing it on me, in front of my children, which I like to
avoid at all costs. Today, in the car, my older son was irritating my
younger son and she actually turned around and slapped his hand! Our van is
broken down and she was taking us to the grocery store, so I, once again,
hesitated to say anything...not to mention I was completely shocked! I have
never seen her raise a hand to a child in my life! Anyone for that matter.

A few days ago, she was over and read a couple of unschooling articles I had
lying around and went off on me about how behind my children will become if
I follow this nonsense, how they NEED to be in school, how terrible it is
that my almost 7 year old is just learning to read (she easily forgets this
same child has been multiplying and dividing since the age of four.)

When my last two children were born, she raised hell, WHILE I was in LABOR!,
that I was going to kill my children by not having at least a midwife here
with us.

This is getting to the point where I feel like throwing in the towel and not
even speaking to her. I've asked her to read books, websites, anything, but
she refuses. She sees what happy, bright children I have and does not
hesitate to comment on how wonderful they are, but bring up anything related
to my choices in parenting and watch out! Suddenly, those wonderful,
bright, happy children are in dire straits.

Have any of you dealt with this in one form or another? How can I tactfully
deal with her in front of my children? Hell, away from my children? If she
drops in unannounced during "school days" and sees them doing their own
thing, she goes haywire. My husband works out of town a LOT and until we
get our van in working order, she is my only source of help for getting
anywhere, not to mention just getting a break now and then.

Sorry this is so long, but after tonight's prayer and hand slapping episode,
my blood is past boiling and I'm at my wits end.

Jennifer



_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

Robin Clevenger

> From: "jmcseals SEALS" <jmcseals@...>
> Have any of you dealt with this in one form or another? How can I
tactfully
> deal with her in front of my children? Hell, away from my children? If
she
> drops in unannounced during "school days" and sees them doing their own
> thing, she goes haywire. My husband works out of town a LOT and until we
> get our van in working order, she is my only source of help for getting
> anywhere, not to mention just getting a break now and then.
>
> Sorry this is so long, but after tonight's prayer and hand slapping
episode,
> my blood is past boiling and I'm at my wits end.


What I would do is to completely stay away from this toxic woman. I'd eat
popcorn every day for a week, rather than have a person drive my family to
the grocery store who was going to hit my child! Lock your door and don't
let her "drop in unannounced". How to deal with her "tactfully" in front of
your children? I'd personally say "it is not okay for anyone to hit my
children". I think it's more important for my kids to know that I will not
let someone abuse them than for some adult woman to not have hurt feelings.
I'm very unclear why you would invite a woman like that to your birthing,
especially a second time after she acted like that the first time. I'm
unclear why you continue to have her be a part of your daily existence. I'm
unclear why if she insists that the kids pray, you don't just say "My
children don't need to pray if they don't want to." and if she "loses it on
you" as you've said the she does, go out of her house and don't go back!
Life is too short to choose to be in the presence of people like that. Life
is *way* too short to insist that children be in her presence.
I would do whatever it takes to get your van fixed and not be dependant on
this woman. If that is not possible, do all your shopping when your husband
is there and stay at home or find alternate transportation when he's not. It
is within your power to choose to be around her abuse, verbal and otherwise,
or not.

Blue Skies,
-Robin-

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/13/03 11:38:36 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
jmcseals@... writes:

> Sorry this is so long, but after tonight's prayer and hand slapping episode,
>
> my blood is past boiling and I'm at my wits end.
>
>

Are you sure there is no one else to help with groceries, friends, other
homeschool moms or doing them when the DH is home so you can use the family
car etc. I would definitely speak with her and if she often causes a scene
you could do it when the children aren't there. First I would tell her, that
no matter what she thinks, hitting is not allowed, end of that statement. I
would be afraid of the statement I would be making to my children if I
allowed someone to touch them that way and did not step in.

I think about that a lot when Jackson's dad comes to visit. He seems like a
mean man. His spirit is not child centered or even child interested. They
are to sit and be quiet. He hasn't yet reached out to hit any of them but
Jackson and I have spoken about what to do if he does and Jackson knows he
will talk to his dad about it before his next visit.

I think someone here mentioned a neighbor that spanked her child. And that
really got me thinking about doing something before hand to prevent it. Any
way. I know that wasn't much for advice or help but keep trying to find a
way to not be so dependent on her and you might find it easier to confront
her. Tough situation all around.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sevenhavei

Robin,

Thank you!

> I'm very unclear why you would invite a woman like that to your
birthing,
> especially a second time after she acted like that the first time.

She wasn't present, this was over the phone. I did hang up, but she
would call back repeatedly. When I took the phone off the hook, she
showed up at the house. During the second birth, my mother took
over and she left. Peacefully once she saw the baby was ok.

I'm
> unclear why you continue to have her be a part of your daily
existence.

I'm working on this. It's hard to turn away, albeit easier when
things like this happen. She's one of those people that once the
bad moments are over, she acts like everything is just wonderful.
The terrible part is I am apt to just let things go to save the
peace, not to mention my children get really upset when I tell them
we can't see her. This has been an ongoing struggle. I've gone
months without speaking to her but it seems like once things mellow
out, I'm back again. It helps to have an outside opinion, because,
of course, the rest of my family wants me to keep the peace as
well. It's hard to see things clearly when staying osolated from
just my grandmother means isolating myself from my entire family.
That's not an excuse to continue, just a statement really. I'm sure
once we are mobile again, it will make things much easier.

I'm
> unclear why if she insists that the kids pray, you don't just
say "My
> children don't need to pray if they don't want to." and if
she "loses it on
> you" as you've said the she does, go out of her house and don't go
back!

I wasn't actually there yesterday when this happened. A few of the
kids went to her house while the other kids and I went shopping. My
daughter told me about it. I won't let that happen again.

> Life is too short to choose to be in the presence of people like
that. Life
> is *way* too short to insist that children be in her presence.
> I would do whatever it takes to get your van fixed and not be
dependant on
> this woman. If that is not possible, do all your shopping when
your husband
> is there and stay at home or find alternate transportation when
he's not. It
> is within your power to choose to be around her abuse, verbal and
otherwise,
> or not.

I called my husband last night, after writing this and told him we
need to do something about the van, asap. He has always been on my
side, thankfully, and wants me to separate myself from her. He told
me the van will go in the shop, as soon as he gets home, for
diagnostics so he can fix it!! He's had it on the back burner
because I've been able to rely on her for help. When I told him
about yesterday, he was furious. I wish it hadn't taken this for it
to happen, but at least I can now see a light at the end of the
tunnel.

Thanks for your insight. I know it sounds rediculous that I would
put up with all this at my children's and my own expense. I do try
to get all my shopping done when he's home, but this last time, he
was gone for over 6 weeks, and now he's been gone over 2 and will be
home next weekend. Those long hauls are hard to get through since
we are not within walking distance of a store, which is why I was
getting her help. BUT, I called my friend and she offered to go to
the store for me when needed, so at least for the next week, I can
rely on her for help. It sucks that sometimes bad things need to
happen to get help from others, but at least I have the option now.
This is longer than I had anticipated, but I wanted to answer all of
your questions. Hope this makes things clearer.

Best Wishes,
Jennifer

Lisa M. C. Bentley

> Sorry this is so long, but after tonight's prayer and hand slapping episode,
> my blood is past boiling and I'm at my wits end.

I feel for you. I've been in a similar situation with my ILs. It
practically came to blows about 5 years ago and we didn't even speak for
about 3 years. We'll still never be close, but we do send a digital
photo of the kids to them every so often (every couple of months). No
need for me to get into my situation, just to say that I learned that
maybe people could walk all over me prior to having children, but once
my first baby was born I wasn't going to let ANYONE do anything in front
of her that was horrible and I was not going to let anyone make me do
things that I didn't want my daughter to see me do. Then was the time
for me to prove who I was and stand up for the things that I believed
in. If not then, then when would it ever matter? I didn't want to be a
hypocrite in my beliefs.

As hard as that was to endure, I have gained the strength to know that I
can and would stand up to anyone when it comes to matters that I believe
strongly in. I could walk away from any relationship if it were a toxic
one to me. I will fight hard to make my relationships with my children
never be toxic, but that requires an honesty and closeness that is like
very few relationships that I will ever have.

A couple questions:
Does your husband always go out of town to the same location? If yes,
could you move there? There is nothing like having two parents in a
household where both are around a lot. It is much easier and happier
for everyone!

Does your town offer any grocery delivery services? I live in a rather
large city, so we have several stores that will deliver groceries for
free if over a certain dollar amount ($250) or for a reasonable charge
for less. There are also several personal shoppers that I've seen
advertised and their rates aren't ridiculous once you figure just how
long it takes to shop with children and the cost of driving, etc. There
are also a couple of online grocery stores that I've seen before (not
offered here yet) that might cover your area. I can't think of their
names off hand.

It is nice that you have friends that would get stuff for you. I don't
like to be too dependent on anyone else without repaying them somehow,
or else resentments can easily start. I've seen people claim over and
over that they don't mind doing things, then come years later to list
out everything that they've done for the other one... I'd say that
Grandma probably fits in that category!

Good luck! Family relationships are the absolute hardest to deal
with!!! I feel for you, whatever your decisions are, you will be living
with the ramifications for a long time. Just stand up for your children
and your beliefs and you will know that you are doing the right thing.

-Lisa in AZ

sevenhavei

> A couple questions:
> Does your husband always go out of town to the same location?

Sadly, no. I wish he did! I think life would be sooo much better
if we *could* move away. Our youngest is almost 7 months old and
he's been home about 2 months of that total. It is soo hard being
home alone, especially with no vehicle. Thankfully, he is now
committed to getting our van working again, so once we are out and
about on our own, life will be much better, easier, joyful, etc.

> Does your town offer any grocery delivery services?

Hey! I hadn't even thought of that! I know we used to have such
services, but many of them went under. It's certainly worth
checking out. Surely someone still offers this...we live in the
Dallas/Ft. Worth area, so you'd think they would. Thanks for the
idea!

> It is nice that you have friends that would get stuff for you. I
don't
> like to be too dependent on anyone else without repaying them
somehow,
> or else resentments can easily start. I've seen people claim over
and
> over that they don't mind doing things, then come years later to
list
> out everything that they've done for the other one... I'd say that
> Grandma probably fits in that category!

Boy, I tried to edit this a bit but I must say how very much I
agree. Actually, this friend is my best girlfriend. We've been
friends for almost 15 years and we always trade off on favors, so I
have no fear that I will wear her out! ;) Since I haven't been
mobile in quite some time, I offer to keep her kids so she can clean
her house or get out with her hubby. It works out pretty well.
And, oh, I'm SURE this is how Grandma feels. My parents were
abusive and she took me in at ten. She absolutely feels this way
when I disagree with her about anything! Not so much that it is
said, but I can feel the, 'well, I've done soooo much for you, the
least you could do is take my advice', kind of thing. I hadn't
thought of it in this way. Another eye-opener, indeed! I suppose I
also have a little guilt as a result.
>
> Good luck! Just stand up for your children
> and your beliefs and you will know that you are doing the right
thing.
>
> -Lisa in AZ

Thanks so much for your input! I called my aunt to basically rant
and whine about yesterday and she agreed with my grandmother! So,
it's nice to have someone on my side!

Jennifer

Mary

From: <genant2@...>

<< I think someone here mentioned a neighbor that spanked her child. And
that
really got me thinking about doing something before hand to prevent it.
Any
way. I know that wasn't much for advice or help but keep trying to find a
way to not be so dependent on her and you might find it easier to confront
her. Tough situation all around.>>



I think this whole situation is doing much more harm than good to you and
more importantly your children. I have had to make decisions rather recently
as to certain family members being around me and our children. When I'm
around somone, I want to be able to feel safe and welcomed. I wasnt to be
able to take something away from that meeting of that person. Something
enjoyable. If I'm not, then that person is not worth the time of me or my
family. If it's strained and stressful, then it's just not something I want
to deal with. This has resulted in no communication with major family
members on both my side and also Joe's. It mostly had to do with the way we
parent our children. I try at first to explain, to question and even to ask
for understanding or at least quiet compliance when in my house. When I get
none of that, they're history.

I would think that you surely can find something else as far as
transportation and support. You certainly aren't getting it now.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/14/03 9:40:20 AM, diamondair@... writes:

<< How to deal with her "tactfully" in front of

your children? I'd personally say "it is not okay for anyone to hit my

children". >>

I would write her a letter with the things you've told us.
If it's in a letter she can't argue and she can't interrupt. And KEEP A
COPY. And date it.
And if she even starts to misrepresent it to any relatives, send them a copy
too.

I'd say you would LOVE for her to still be in their lives but only if she
respects your authority (I'd use that word, "authority," since it will trap
her in her own belief) and keeps her hands off those children.

That's what I would do.

Sandra

zenmomma *

>>>What I would do is to completely stay away from this toxic woman.>>

Robin speaks some wise words here. It sounds like you need to establish some
firm boundaries. It's not okay for her to be intimidating you like this. It
may not be possible to avoid ruffling her feathers or hurting her feelings
as you set these boundaries for what is and is not okay behavior with you
and your kids. But your kids are your priority. They are the one that need
protecting.

Life is good.
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."

~ Thich Nhat Hanh





_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail