balance/sex on tv (was Digest Number 3258)
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/03 12:49:46 PM, wenrom31@... writes:
<< I just don't want to pass those hang ups on to my son. Hmm.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, I guess that I just don't want to
shield him unnecessarily or, on the other hand, be neglectful. I'm hoping
for a healthy balance. Is that possible??? LOL! Thanks for all the
feedback! I'm open to any ideas. >>
My kids seem healthily balanced.
Kirby has some swimsuit-model thing on his computer as a desktop currently.
He's never kept the same desktop very long, so I expect it to change in a
bit. If I say something, it will make it more charged and important than if
I don't. And there's nothing to say that's not kind of stupid or irritating
anyway. It's not hurting anybody. And he's not being sneaky, that's for
sure.
He has a girlfriend. He's had other girlfriends. This one is the plainest
looking, and one of his friends said "I expected her to be prettier." Kirby
rared back his head and gave the guy a look like it was tacky for him to
judge people by looks. But this morning he was talking to me about what to
get her for her birthday. Ideas were being rejected because he just doesn't
know enough about her, whether she has a CD player, says they have no DVD,
her dad rarely lets them get to the VCR because he watches racing al the
time. I asked if she sewed. "Unfortunately, no. She doesn't have many
interests. That's a problem."
He said it in such a way that the problem was way bigger than what to get her
for a birthday. She's not interesting enough for him, not creative enough.
He didn't care about looks.
If he were an unbalanced kid, I think he would be totally going for physical
relationship if he could get it, but he's not (and he could) and he ends up
hanging out with her also teenaged brother as much as he does with her.
He's treating her like a human, and thinking of her as a human. He didn't
pick her for looks, but he probably won't marry her (figuratively and
literally speaking--it probably won't last a long time) because she's not as
interesting as some of his other friends. (There has also been a twinge of
dishonesty, and that won't go far with him.)
So...
Kids allowed to do and see whatever, treating young women NOT like sexual
objects.
That's the data from here.
Sandra
<< I just don't want to pass those hang ups on to my son. Hmm.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, I guess that I just don't want to
shield him unnecessarily or, on the other hand, be neglectful. I'm hoping
for a healthy balance. Is that possible??? LOL! Thanks for all the
feedback! I'm open to any ideas. >>
My kids seem healthily balanced.
Kirby has some swimsuit-model thing on his computer as a desktop currently.
He's never kept the same desktop very long, so I expect it to change in a
bit. If I say something, it will make it more charged and important than if
I don't. And there's nothing to say that's not kind of stupid or irritating
anyway. It's not hurting anybody. And he's not being sneaky, that's for
sure.
He has a girlfriend. He's had other girlfriends. This one is the plainest
looking, and one of his friends said "I expected her to be prettier." Kirby
rared back his head and gave the guy a look like it was tacky for him to
judge people by looks. But this morning he was talking to me about what to
get her for her birthday. Ideas were being rejected because he just doesn't
know enough about her, whether she has a CD player, says they have no DVD,
her dad rarely lets them get to the VCR because he watches racing al the
time. I asked if she sewed. "Unfortunately, no. She doesn't have many
interests. That's a problem."
He said it in such a way that the problem was way bigger than what to get her
for a birthday. She's not interesting enough for him, not creative enough.
He didn't care about looks.
If he were an unbalanced kid, I think he would be totally going for physical
relationship if he could get it, but he's not (and he could) and he ends up
hanging out with her also teenaged brother as much as he does with her.
He's treating her like a human, and thinking of her as a human. He didn't
pick her for looks, but he probably won't marry her (figuratively and
literally speaking--it probably won't last a long time) because she's not as
interesting as some of his other friends. (There has also been a twinge of
dishonesty, and that won't go far with him.)
So...
Kids allowed to do and see whatever, treating young women NOT like sexual
objects.
That's the data from here.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/2003 4:40:27 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
they been engaging in for years that strikes fear in the hearts of mothers
(and maybe fathers) everywhere.
I have an 18 year old son, I know he's been in at least two sexual
relationships BEFORE he was 18, both were as long term as you get as a
teenager I guess (like a school year and a half?).
If you allow them to know it's healthy and even if you tell them "in a
committed relationship" sometimes your idea of a committed relationship is
FAR different from what a teenagers point of view is.
When they were VERY young and I was a "mother looking out for her child's
best interest" and screening everything I, well, screened everything. No
Beavis and Butthead, I had a hard time with Bart Simpson (5-6 yr old boys)
even. But before puberty was here, I had really relaxed and I wondered maybe
if it was TOO relaxed.
But teenagers have sex, so the only battle to be won was to make sure they
were informed, respectful and above all as SAFE as possible.
That's how it worked here anyway. Cait is not interested in dating or semi
dating even yet, so I guess I don't have to have those stressful thoughts,
not for today anyway, who knows what tomorrow will bring.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> So...On the other hand sometimes sexuality takes over and teenagers engage in what
> Kids allowed to do and see whatever, treating young women NOT like sexual
> objects.
>
> That's the data from here.
>
>
they been engaging in for years that strikes fear in the hearts of mothers
(and maybe fathers) everywhere.
I have an 18 year old son, I know he's been in at least two sexual
relationships BEFORE he was 18, both were as long term as you get as a
teenager I guess (like a school year and a half?).
If you allow them to know it's healthy and even if you tell them "in a
committed relationship" sometimes your idea of a committed relationship is
FAR different from what a teenagers point of view is.
When they were VERY young and I was a "mother looking out for her child's
best interest" and screening everything I, well, screened everything. No
Beavis and Butthead, I had a hard time with Bart Simpson (5-6 yr old boys)
even. But before puberty was here, I had really relaxed and I wondered maybe
if it was TOO relaxed.
But teenagers have sex, so the only battle to be won was to make sure they
were informed, respectful and above all as SAFE as possible.
That's how it worked here anyway. Cait is not interested in dating or semi
dating even yet, so I guess I don't have to have those stressful thoughts,
not for today anyway, who knows what tomorrow will bring.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/03 2:54:25 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< On the other hand sometimes sexuality takes over and teenagers engage in
what
they been engaging in for years that strikes fear in the hearts of mothers
(and maybe fathers) everywhere. >>
Are you talking about long-term unschoolers who have had the freedom to
choose what to watch and do their whole lives?
-=-When they were VERY young and I was a "mother looking out for her child's
best interest" and screening everything I, well, screened everything. No
Beavis and Butthead, I had a hard time with Bart Simpson (5-6 yr old boys)
even. But before puberty was here, I had really relaxed and I wondered maybe
if it was TOO relaxed.
<<But teenagers have sex, so the only battle to be won was to make sure they
were informed, respectful and above all as SAFE as possible.-=-
Do you think having sex had anything to do with their watching or not
watching Beavis and Butthead or the Simpsons?
My kids have never been restricted from those things or South Park or any
other humor. And while I think Kirby has had sex (Marty and I were just
talking about that while I shaved Marty's head just now), he's not having sex
because of something he saw or didn't see. And the more information he has
about it, the better, as far as I'm concerned. I gave him a birth-control
reminder review (condoms aren't 100%) and he listened politely without
confirming or denying.
Sandra
<< On the other hand sometimes sexuality takes over and teenagers engage in
what
they been engaging in for years that strikes fear in the hearts of mothers
(and maybe fathers) everywhere. >>
Are you talking about long-term unschoolers who have had the freedom to
choose what to watch and do their whole lives?
-=-When they were VERY young and I was a "mother looking out for her child's
best interest" and screening everything I, well, screened everything. No
Beavis and Butthead, I had a hard time with Bart Simpson (5-6 yr old boys)
even. But before puberty was here, I had really relaxed and I wondered maybe
if it was TOO relaxed.
<<But teenagers have sex, so the only battle to be won was to make sure they
were informed, respectful and above all as SAFE as possible.-=-
Do you think having sex had anything to do with their watching or not
watching Beavis and Butthead or the Simpsons?
My kids have never been restricted from those things or South Park or any
other humor. And while I think Kirby has had sex (Marty and I were just
talking about that while I shaved Marty's head just now), he's not having sex
because of something he saw or didn't see. And the more information he has
about it, the better, as far as I'm concerned. I gave him a birth-control
reminder review (condoms aren't 100%) and he listened politely without
confirming or denying.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/2003 6:08:07 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
that when my kids where younger before I knew about the joys of
homeschooling, let alone unschooling, I was this wicked mother that denied
them all the privileges other children supposedly had.
Then suddenly to have the entire world opened up to you around the age of 11,
12 or 13, I guess you would want to take EVERYTHING in.
John had sex for the first time when he was 17 was it because of being
"shielded" as a child? Was it because suddenly he became responsible for
himself?
Who's to know for sure but I was just trying to say that I think it's
probably a part of every teenagers (no, not really EVERY teenager, but a
large part of them) passage into adulthood and for me the expectations became
for them not to remain virgins until married but the things that concerned me
most were saftey and respect of others.
When my children were younger I would have said they BETTER NOT be having sex
in their teens. But I grew and learned and things changed and I came to know
that I cannot control my children with my wishes, only allow them to become
the very best people they can be.
AND I also kept reminding myself that I had sex for the first time when I was
17, just before I married their father...
So I guess I was saying I don't know how much of a part it plays or whether
it is just the nature of humans that plays the biggest part of all. I know I
trust my kids to know what is right for them. I also trust them to be as
safe as possible and I know they are well aware of the consequences their
actions can bring if they are not careful. I know they know how to respect
others.
I guess that's all a mother can really hope for, well of course i guess we
could hope they wait until the absolute love of their life shows up, but with
teenagers sometimes that happens two or three times before they find the REAL
absolute love of their life.
Anyway, I suppose I've only confused you even more with my rambling thoughts,
I think it's hard for me to say exactly what I want you to hear, but I hope
you get at least a part of what I'm trying to say.
I guess it's all about the trust.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Do you think having sex had anything to do with their watching or notNo, I don't think it has anything to do with that at all. Just trying to say
> watching Beavis and Butthead or the Simpsons?
>
that when my kids where younger before I knew about the joys of
homeschooling, let alone unschooling, I was this wicked mother that denied
them all the privileges other children supposedly had.
Then suddenly to have the entire world opened up to you around the age of 11,
12 or 13, I guess you would want to take EVERYTHING in.
John had sex for the first time when he was 17 was it because of being
"shielded" as a child? Was it because suddenly he became responsible for
himself?
Who's to know for sure but I was just trying to say that I think it's
probably a part of every teenagers (no, not really EVERY teenager, but a
large part of them) passage into adulthood and for me the expectations became
for them not to remain virgins until married but the things that concerned me
most were saftey and respect of others.
When my children were younger I would have said they BETTER NOT be having sex
in their teens. But I grew and learned and things changed and I came to know
that I cannot control my children with my wishes, only allow them to become
the very best people they can be.
AND I also kept reminding myself that I had sex for the first time when I was
17, just before I married their father...
So I guess I was saying I don't know how much of a part it plays or whether
it is just the nature of humans that plays the biggest part of all. I know I
trust my kids to know what is right for them. I also trust them to be as
safe as possible and I know they are well aware of the consequences their
actions can bring if they are not careful. I know they know how to respect
others.
I guess that's all a mother can really hope for, well of course i guess we
could hope they wait until the absolute love of their life shows up, but with
teenagers sometimes that happens two or three times before they find the REAL
absolute love of their life.
Anyway, I suppose I've only confused you even more with my rambling thoughts,
I think it's hard for me to say exactly what I want you to hear, but I hope
you get at least a part of what I'm trying to say.
I guess it's all about the trust.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <rubyprincesstsg@...>
<<John had sex for the first time when he was 17 was it because of being
"shielded" as a child? Was it because suddenly he became responsible for
himself? >>
Was John ever homeschooled/unschooled? If so, how old was he when you
started? I think that has a lot to do with it. Peer pressure is incredibly
strong. And I must say in this day and age, I think it's even worse. Kids
are having sex now at 12 like no big deal. I think a lot of people would be
shocked to know actually how many (talking school kids here) that are doing
it.
Tara had no restrictions and I was very trusting of her, she had sex at a
young age but I really think it was her environment (school) that had a big
influence on her. She may have had sex earlier than some if she was
homeschooled, but I don't think it would have been as early as it was. Just
second guessing though.
Mary B
<<John had sex for the first time when he was 17 was it because of being
"shielded" as a child? Was it because suddenly he became responsible for
himself? >>
Was John ever homeschooled/unschooled? If so, how old was he when you
started? I think that has a lot to do with it. Peer pressure is incredibly
strong. And I must say in this day and age, I think it's even worse. Kids
are having sex now at 12 like no big deal. I think a lot of people would be
shocked to know actually how many (talking school kids here) that are doing
it.
Tara had no restrictions and I was very trusting of her, she had sex at a
young age but I really think it was her environment (school) that had a big
influence on her. She may have had sex earlier than some if she was
homeschooled, but I don't think it would have been as early as it was. Just
second guessing though.
Mary B
wldr104
> Anyway, I suppose I've only confused you even more with my ramblingthoughts,
> I think it's hard for me to say exactly what I want you to hear,but I hope
> you get at least a part of what I'm trying to say.I'm not confused in the least. It IS about trust. And I do trust
>
> I guess it's all about the trust.
>
> glena
him. I don't know if it's promiscuity I'm so concerned about, but I
don't think so. The thing is that we really haven't shielded him from
sex ever, except on TV and in movies. We have always been very open
with him about sex, drugs and everything else that he or we could
think of. (That actually reminds me of something that happened
recently: about a year and a half ago, I took ds to a local museum
and on the way home we stopped at a shopping center to wait for dh to
pick us up...I don't drive...anyway, while there, the topic of
puberty was brought up by either ds or me and that led into a
discussion on wet-dreams and what to expect and when, etc...well, we
were there again recently, waiting on dh again, when my son looked
around, looked at me and said (none to quietly) "oh yeah! This is
where we talked about wet dreams, right?") He is actually more
comfortable with sexuality than I am for him. I just do not know why
the TV/movie thing unnerves me so much. I really have to snap out of
it. For goodness sakes, he IS 11. When I was that age, I'm sure I
was exposed to sex on TV. Maybe not as intense as nowadays, but who
knows.
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/2003 10:26:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mummy124@... writes:
are having sex VERY young. My daughter plays rec softball during middle
school years with say 15 or so girls. During the year they were 11 one of
the girls was having sex, she liked to regal the others with the (what Cait
described) "horrible" details.
Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her. Near her 13th birthday the girl became
pregnant by the boy she was IN LOVE with. The boy her mother let her have in
her room with the door shut and sleep together (but they were only SLEEPING).
So her mother takes care of the situation and gets the girl a babysitter
after school. She can't go anywhere, do anything, has to be monitored at all
times.
Mother calls me, asks me how come Cait is not like Tara? Apologizes that Tara
has exposed these kids to things their parents might not approve of.
(annoucing her pregnancy to her friends they all had to find out why it never
progressed).
I just took a deep breath and said, you know what? I don't go out for drinks
after work and come home at nine or ten or later every night and fall into
bed. I don't agree with Cait taking a boyfriend (she doesn't have one yet)
into her room to "sleep" at that age, especially with no one home. I told
her this has been going on for a couple years, it's not something new to her
child. She really wanted help, she wanted to know what she could do as a
mother to help her child see that she wasn't adult enough to go through all
this.
How about not MAKING her the adult? She comes home from seventh grade like
adults come home from work. To an empty house. She is repsonsible for her
own snacks and dinner. She is repsonsible for doing any household work that
needs doing, she is repsonsible for her own bedtime her own everything.
She's playing house all on her own. Sometimes she will see you on Saturday
morning drag to her softball games, SOMETIMES. Sometimes it's into the next
week before she see you at all. She needs attention and she's going to find
it. She needs love and nurturing and she will find it.
That was to say that I don't think it's all about peer pressure. Some of it
is, but in this case peer pressure would have been against this behaviour. I
think there are LOTS Of reasons kids have sex.
These days I think 17 is pretty late from what I hear. I guess just like
anything else in life there are so many reasons things happen it's hard to
make generalities.
Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummy124@... writes:
> Was John ever homeschooled/unschooled? If so, how old was he when youJohn was was not homeschooled. But you are very true in saying these kids
> started? I think that has a lot to do with it. Peer pressure is incredibly
> strong. And I must say in this day and age, I think it's even worse. Kids
> are having sex now at 12 like no big deal. I think a lot of people would be
> shocked to know actually how many (talking school kids here) that are doing
> it.
>
are having sex VERY young. My daughter plays rec softball during middle
school years with say 15 or so girls. During the year they were 11 one of
the girls was having sex, she liked to regal the others with the (what Cait
described) "horrible" details.
Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her. Near her 13th birthday the girl became
pregnant by the boy she was IN LOVE with. The boy her mother let her have in
her room with the door shut and sleep together (but they were only SLEEPING).
So her mother takes care of the situation and gets the girl a babysitter
after school. She can't go anywhere, do anything, has to be monitored at all
times.
Mother calls me, asks me how come Cait is not like Tara? Apologizes that Tara
has exposed these kids to things their parents might not approve of.
(annoucing her pregnancy to her friends they all had to find out why it never
progressed).
I just took a deep breath and said, you know what? I don't go out for drinks
after work and come home at nine or ten or later every night and fall into
bed. I don't agree with Cait taking a boyfriend (she doesn't have one yet)
into her room to "sleep" at that age, especially with no one home. I told
her this has been going on for a couple years, it's not something new to her
child. She really wanted help, she wanted to know what she could do as a
mother to help her child see that she wasn't adult enough to go through all
this.
How about not MAKING her the adult? She comes home from seventh grade like
adults come home from work. To an empty house. She is repsonsible for her
own snacks and dinner. She is repsonsible for doing any household work that
needs doing, she is repsonsible for her own bedtime her own everything.
She's playing house all on her own. Sometimes she will see you on Saturday
morning drag to her softball games, SOMETIMES. Sometimes it's into the next
week before she see you at all. She needs attention and she's going to find
it. She needs love and nurturing and she will find it.
That was to say that I don't think it's all about peer pressure. Some of it
is, but in this case peer pressure would have been against this behaviour. I
think there are LOTS Of reasons kids have sex.
These days I think 17 is pretty late from what I hear. I guess just like
anything else in life there are so many reasons things happen it's hard to
make generalities.
Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <rubyprincesstsg@...>
<<Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her.>>
Well in that case good for them. From what I know and see here, 12 year olds
having sex is the norm. The ones who aren't having some kind of sexual
contact are the ones shunned and made fun of. It's pretty much a gimme that
by 13 or 14, if you haven't had sex with someone, you are weird. And let me
say that most kids start out with oral sex. See around here, oral sex ISN'T
sex at all and the way to start out when experimenting. And this goes both
ways, for guys and girls.
<<Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start
having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?>>
I don't think it would be fair for me to put an age on it. It would depend
on the person and the circumstances. I love sex and it's a big part of my
marital relationship. It's always been a big part of my life. I haven't
always been careful about it and that has to do with me not getting any
information when I was young. I make sure not to do that with my own
children. But I think it's fun and not just for procreation. I have married
friends who complain about not enough, about too much. I have friends who go
weeks without sex. I know of some who actually go years. That would never
work for me.
So with my attitude, how could I expect my children to not have sex until
they are legal adults or married. They might choose to do that, and that's
fine if it's their choice. If it's not, how can I complain about it?
My oldest had sex earlier than I was comfortable with. Now she knows it was
way too soon for her also. Can't take it back and luckily there were
repercussions because of it. She's careful now about her decisions. I also
know her and her boyfriend now are having sex. And even though I had a
problem with how and when she started, I don't have any problems with her
now. She's responsible and she loves the kid. Not someone she will marry,
but I don't believe it has to wait for that anyway.
Mary B
<<Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her.>>
Well in that case good for them. From what I know and see here, 12 year olds
having sex is the norm. The ones who aren't having some kind of sexual
contact are the ones shunned and made fun of. It's pretty much a gimme that
by 13 or 14, if you haven't had sex with someone, you are weird. And let me
say that most kids start out with oral sex. See around here, oral sex ISN'T
sex at all and the way to start out when experimenting. And this goes both
ways, for guys and girls.
<<Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start
having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?>>
I don't think it would be fair for me to put an age on it. It would depend
on the person and the circumstances. I love sex and it's a big part of my
marital relationship. It's always been a big part of my life. I haven't
always been careful about it and that has to do with me not getting any
information when I was young. I make sure not to do that with my own
children. But I think it's fun and not just for procreation. I have married
friends who complain about not enough, about too much. I have friends who go
weeks without sex. I know of some who actually go years. That would never
work for me.
So with my attitude, how could I expect my children to not have sex until
they are legal adults or married. They might choose to do that, and that's
fine if it's their choice. If it's not, how can I complain about it?
My oldest had sex earlier than I was comfortable with. Now she knows it was
way too soon for her also. Can't take it back and luckily there were
repercussions because of it. She's careful now about her decisions. I also
know her and her boyfriend now are having sex. And even though I had a
problem with how and when she started, I don't have any problems with her
now. She's responsible and she loves the kid. Not someone she will marry,
but I don't believe it has to wait for that anyway.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/9/03 6:08:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> (condoms aren't 100%)Did you mean to use them 100% of the time or that they are 100% effective?
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/03 7:12:33 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< That was to say that I don't think it's all about peer pressure. Some of
it
is, but in this case peer pressure would have been against this behaviour. I
think there are LOTS Of reasons kids have sex. >>
Let's not be telling a bunch of stories about kids in school. We could all
do that but it's a waste of this list and our time.
Unschooling.
<<Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start
having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?>>
For some parents, never.
For few parents will they say "Okay! You're old enough, go for it!"
The best parents can do is have a good relationship with their children so
that the children are thoughtful, aware, mature and responsible. They will
have sex without their mother's permission or approval at some point, and
it's none of her business in large part.
ANY sort of clinging and controlling will make it worse and more likely.
There's a homeschooling family I know where one of the daughters hated her
parents and her life so much she got married at fifteen to get out. She
wasn't prepared to know anything about sex or having a family. All she knew
was she wanted out of the one she was in.
I'm aiming to give my kids a safe, comfortable place to be so they don't feel
like they need to cling to any person floating by to rescue them.
Yesterday Marty was talking to a kid he's known for nine years, who started
homeschooling because of our family. The kid's living far away now, and
calls occasionally. Marty was summarizing the past year, and one of the
stories involved a mutual friend moving out of parents' house into an
apartment, at 17. "He's an idiot," Marty said simply.
Kids will cling desperately to others because their parents are unreasonable,
not because they saw waist-up acted-out sex on a movie.
Sandra
<< That was to say that I don't think it's all about peer pressure. Some of
it
is, but in this case peer pressure would have been against this behaviour. I
think there are LOTS Of reasons kids have sex. >>
Let's not be telling a bunch of stories about kids in school. We could all
do that but it's a waste of this list and our time.
Unschooling.
<<Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start
having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?>>
For some parents, never.
For few parents will they say "Okay! You're old enough, go for it!"
The best parents can do is have a good relationship with their children so
that the children are thoughtful, aware, mature and responsible. They will
have sex without their mother's permission or approval at some point, and
it's none of her business in large part.
ANY sort of clinging and controlling will make it worse and more likely.
There's a homeschooling family I know where one of the daughters hated her
parents and her life so much she got married at fifteen to get out. She
wasn't prepared to know anything about sex or having a family. All she knew
was she wanted out of the one she was in.
I'm aiming to give my kids a safe, comfortable place to be so they don't feel
like they need to cling to any person floating by to rescue them.
Yesterday Marty was talking to a kid he's known for nine years, who started
homeschooling because of our family. The kid's living far away now, and
calls occasionally. Marty was summarizing the past year, and one of the
stories involved a mutual friend moving out of parents' house into an
apartment, at 17. "He's an idiot," Marty said simply.
Kids will cling desperately to others because their parents are unreasonable,
not because they saw waist-up acted-out sex on a movie.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/03 8:23:03 AM, mummy124@... writes:
<< <<Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her.>>
<<Well in that case good for them. >>
Yikes.
What are the odds the girl who had sex early had been abused, or mistreated
in some way so that early sex was better than what was going on around her?
Is shunning and shaming her a virtue in others then?
<< From what I know and see here, 12 year olds
having sex is the norm. The ones who aren't having some kind of sexual
contact are the ones shunned and made fun of. It's pretty much a gimme that
by 13 or 14, if you haven't had sex with someone, you are weird. >>
AGAIN you aren't talking about unschoolers, so PLEASE make that clear. 1100
people reading this, some new at any time, and you're making statements
without specifying you're talking about school.
<<My oldest...>>
who was going to school
<<... had sex earlier than I was comfortable with. Now she knows it was
way too soon for her also. Can't take it back and luckily there were
repercussions because of it.>>>
Sandra
<< <<Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her.>>
<<Well in that case good for them. >>
Yikes.
What are the odds the girl who had sex early had been abused, or mistreated
in some way so that early sex was better than what was going on around her?
Is shunning and shaming her a virtue in others then?
<< From what I know and see here, 12 year olds
having sex is the norm. The ones who aren't having some kind of sexual
contact are the ones shunned and made fun of. It's pretty much a gimme that
by 13 or 14, if you haven't had sex with someone, you are weird. >>
AGAIN you aren't talking about unschoolers, so PLEASE make that clear. 1100
people reading this, some new at any time, and you're making statements
without specifying you're talking about school.
<<My oldest...>>
who was going to school
<<... had sex earlier than I was comfortable with. Now she knows it was
way too soon for her also. Can't take it back and luckily there were
repercussions because of it.>>>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/2003 12:47:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
girl". I also don't expect that 11 and 12 year old girls to sit and hear
about sexual escapades every chance this child had to share them so grandly
either.
The child knew they didn't want to hear about it, she continued to flaunt it
in words as well as her looks and actions, so nothing left for them to do,
but ignore her.
Her mother knew this was going on. She called parents to see why here child
was so upset. Parents told her because of her child's being so advanced in
some not so nice ways, it made their children uncomfortable to be around her.
Her mother shrugged it off as jealousy, until the pregnancy anyway.
But there really is little else that such young girls could/should do but
avoid a situation they are uncomfortable with, in my opinion anyway. The did
talk to their mothers about it. The only suggestions I made for my daughter
were to talk to her friend about her behaviours and the things she wanted to
share with others and let her know they were not comfortable. The friend
didn't care, it was like a bragging thing to her, she shared explicit
details. So no one wanted to hang around her BUT the boys.
What would you suggest that 11 and 12 year olds should do in a situation like
this?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Yikes.No it isn't a virtue, I meant it to sound just like you read it, as in "poor
>
> What are the odds the girl who had sex early had been abused, or mistreated
>
> in some way so that early sex was better than what was going on around her?
>
> Is shunning and shaming her a virtue in others then?
>
girl". I also don't expect that 11 and 12 year old girls to sit and hear
about sexual escapades every chance this child had to share them so grandly
either.
The child knew they didn't want to hear about it, she continued to flaunt it
in words as well as her looks and actions, so nothing left for them to do,
but ignore her.
Her mother knew this was going on. She called parents to see why here child
was so upset. Parents told her because of her child's being so advanced in
some not so nice ways, it made their children uncomfortable to be around her.
Her mother shrugged it off as jealousy, until the pregnancy anyway.
But there really is little else that such young girls could/should do but
avoid a situation they are uncomfortable with, in my opinion anyway. The did
talk to their mothers about it. The only suggestions I made for my daughter
were to talk to her friend about her behaviours and the things she wanted to
share with others and let her know they were not comfortable. The friend
didn't care, it was like a bragging thing to her, she shared explicit
details. So no one wanted to hang around her BUT the boys.
What would you suggest that 11 and 12 year olds should do in a situation like
this?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/03 9:36:07 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< > (condoms aren't 100%)
Did you mean to use them 100% of the time or that they are 100% effective? >>
They are not 100% effective.
<< > (condoms aren't 100%)
Did you mean to use them 100% of the time or that they are 100% effective? >>
They are not 100% effective.
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/2003 12:38:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
ready and that doesn't really matter because it's going to happen when it
happens anyway.
Like you said, they aren't likely to ask permsission (although some do bring
it up beforehand).
Lots of things probably factor into a young person's decision and probably a
big part of it is how they were brought up and how the subject was dealt with
or not dealt with maybe.
Some kids probably do flock to others because their families are too
restrictive, some do it for other reasons. I guess many times it's just
human nature that causes it, hormones, spring fever, being twitterpaited as
my children sometimes refer to it.
Isn't that the beauty of it all? That we are so alike yet so very different?
That we each find our own way in this world sometimes IN SPITE OF our
upbringings. I hope my children find their way BECAUSE of the love and care
I've tried to raise them with.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Kids will cling desperately to others because their parents areI think that is a given and the best answer is probably when the child is
> unreasonable,
> not because they saw waist-up acted-out sex on a movie.
>
ready and that doesn't really matter because it's going to happen when it
happens anyway.
Like you said, they aren't likely to ask permsission (although some do bring
it up beforehand).
Lots of things probably factor into a young person's decision and probably a
big part of it is how they were brought up and how the subject was dealt with
or not dealt with maybe.
Some kids probably do flock to others because their families are too
restrictive, some do it for other reasons. I guess many times it's just
human nature that causes it, hormones, spring fever, being twitterpaited as
my children sometimes refer to it.
Isn't that the beauty of it all? That we are so alike yet so very different?
That we each find our own way in this world sometimes IN SPITE OF our
upbringings. I hope my children find their way BECAUSE of the love and care
I've tried to raise them with.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/03 1:01:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
probably didn't mean that they were 100% effective and I didn't want others
to think that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<>(condoms aren't 100%)That is just why I wanted clarification on that point. I know Sandra
>
> Did you mean to use them 100% of the time or that they are 100% effective? >
> >
>
> They are not 100% effective.
>
>
probably didn't mean that they were 100% effective and I didn't want others
to think that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I know some kids very close to me that have already had oral sex at the age of 10. I was shocked when I heard about it.
I immediately educated my kids on *all* of sex, which includes oral sex, etc. We had talked about it all before, but this time I made sure they knew all the facts....like "yes you CAN get pregnant before you have your first period". Even my 14 year old didn't know that (which surprised me).
We talked about birth control etc. I told my daughter that she should wait until marriage, but I'm not naieve. I told her that if she felt she could not wait until then, to come and tell me and I would take her for birth control.
Kristen
I immediately educated my kids on *all* of sex, which includes oral sex, etc. We had talked about it all before, but this time I made sure they knew all the facts....like "yes you CAN get pregnant before you have your first period". Even my 14 year old didn't know that (which surprised me).
We talked about birth control etc. I told my daughter that she should wait until marriage, but I'm not naieve. I told her that if she felt she could not wait until then, to come and tell me and I would take her for birth control.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 10:18 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] balance/sex on tv (was Digest Number 3258)
From: <rubyprincesstsg@...>
<<Most of these girls thought it was horrible, they called this girl names,
they didn't socialize with her.>>
Well in that case good for them. From what I know and see here, 12 year olds
having sex is the norm. The ones who aren't having some kind of sexual
contact are the ones shunned and made fun of. It's pretty much a gimme that
by 13 or 14, if you haven't had sex with someone, you are weird. And let me
say that most kids start out with oral sex. See around here, oral sex ISN'T
sex at all and the way to start out when experimenting. And this goes both
ways, for guys and girls.
<<Here's a good question... what age do you think is an OK age to start
having
sexual relationships? Or is it when that person feels ready and can be
responsible? Does a mother EVER think it's OK?>>
I don't think it would be fair for me to put an age on it. It would depend
on the person and the circumstances. I love sex and it's a big part of my
marital relationship. It's always been a big part of my life. I haven't
always been careful about it and that has to do with me not getting any
information when I was young. I make sure not to do that with my own
children. But I think it's fun and not just for procreation. I have married
friends who complain about not enough, about too much. I have friends who go
weeks without sex. I know of some who actually go years. That would never
work for me.
So with my attitude, how could I expect my children to not have sex until
they are legal adults or married. They might choose to do that, and that's
fine if it's their choice. If it's not, how can I complain about it?
My oldest had sex earlier than I was comfortable with. Now she knows it was
way too soon for her also. Can't take it back and luckily there were
repercussions because of it. She's careful now about her decisions. I also
know her and her boyfriend now are having sex. And even though I had a
problem with how and when she started, I don't have any problems with her
now. She's responsible and she loves the kid. Not someone she will marry,
but I don't believe it has to wait for that anyway.
Mary B
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
They aren't 100% effective. About 4 months after our last child was born, we were using one and ended up with a huge hole in it.
It was the next day when I called the urologist and scheduled Dan's vasectomy.
kristen
It was the next day when I called the urologist and scheduled Dan's vasectomy.
kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: genant2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 11:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] balance/sex on tv (was Digest Number 3258)
In a message dated 4/9/03 6:08:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> (condoms aren't 100%)
Did you mean to use them 100% of the time or that they are 100% effective?
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marjorie Kirk
>Especially after a day at the beach! Believe me, condoms and sand are NOT a
> Did you mean to use them 100% of the time or that they are 100% effective?
>>
>
> They are not 100% effective.
>
working combination. ;-)
Marjorie
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/10/03 11:21:54 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< I know Sandra
probably didn't mean that they were 100% effective and I didn't want others
to think that. >>
<<> <<>(condoms aren't 100%) >>
Did you miss the "n't" on that "aren't"?
Sandra
<< I know Sandra
probably didn't mean that they were 100% effective and I didn't want others
to think that. >>
<<> <<>(condoms aren't 100%) >>
Did you miss the "n't" on that "aren't"?
Sandra
Tia Leschke
> Especially after a day at the beach! Believe me, condoms and sand are NOTa
> working combination. ;-)OUCH!!!!
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Have a Nice Day!
And just to reinforce this concept....after our 4th child we used a condom and ended up with a BIG hole in it, which put me in a very precarious position of worrying about whether I'd get pregnant. It was the very next day (a Monday) that I called the urologist and scheduled Dan's vasectomy.
Condoms are NOT 100% effective. Not even the Pill is 100%.
Kristen
Condoms are NOT 100% effective. Not even the Pill is 100%.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 2:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] balance/sex on tv (was Digest Number 3258)
In a message dated 4/10/03 11:21:54 AM, genant2@... writes:
<< I know Sandra
probably didn't mean that they were 100% effective and I didn't want others
to think that. >>
<<> <<>(condoms aren't 100%) >>
Did you miss the "n't" on that "aren't"?
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
coyote's corner
reminds of a story......well - never mind.
Janis
Janis
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 3:04 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] balance/sex on tv (was Digest Number 3258)
> Especially after a day at the beach! Believe me, condoms and sand are NOT
a
> working combination. ;-)
OUCH!!!!
Tia
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Marjorie Kirk
> reminds of a story......well - never mind.Reminds me of a story, too. It's an on-going, almost six-year-old story
named Sophie!
Marjorie
zenmomma *
>>Especially after a day at the beach! Believe me, condoms and sand are NOTOUCH!!
>>a working combination. ;-)>>
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
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