[email protected]

In a message dated 4/7/03 8:51:37 PM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< >>So it turns into a really bad unschooling day because my child somehow
thinks that everything she NEEDS to know will come to her naturally almost
by osmosis and that she can avoid anything she doesn't WANT to learn BUT
still have the career she wants>> >>

How can a day of a mom being resentful of what a child doesn't want to learn
be ANY kind of an unschooling day?

Everything she needs to know will come to her by osmosis if she is exposed to
those kinds of things in the real world. That's precisely how unschooling
works. If she wants to know more about biology, she needs to be around
animals, videos of animals, books about animals, people who know about
animals. She doesn't need to read a biology book. She needs terminology as
it comes naturally, and ideas and questions as they come naturally.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
> Everything she needs to know will come to her by osmosis if she is exposed
to
> those kinds of things in the real world. That's precisely how unschooling
> works. If she wants to know more about biology, she needs to be around
> animals, videos of animals, books about animals, people who know about
> animals. She doesn't need to read a biology book. She needs terminology
as
> it comes naturally, and ideas and questions as they come naturally.
>
And if she isn't at all interested in biology, she probably doesn't want to
be a doctor.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Robyn Coburn

<<And if she isn't at all interested in biology, she probably doesn't
want to be a doctor.>>



I've been watching this thread about the future career issue, and I
think one person mentioned it earlier - about discovering what it is
about being a doctor that is attractive to the 14 year old. My daughter
is three and talks about being a ballerina, but on further
investigation, what she really wants is to wear her pink tutu around the
house. By no means am I intending to trivialize the serious ambitions of
the teenager, but merely to endorse the idea of seeking greater
understanding of her true desires. I may have already missed further
discussion of this question.



Robyn Coburn







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 7:36:59 AM, dezigna@... writes:

<< My daughter
is three and talks about being a ballerina, but on further
investigation, what she really wants is to wear her pink tutu around the
house. By no means am I intending to trivialize the serious ambitions of
the teenager, but merely to endorse the idea of seeking greater
understanding of her true desires. >>

Holly told me last week that when she was little she had told the neighbors
she wanted to be an artist when she grew up. So they all started saying they
wanted to be artists too. But the whole field of choice she had at the time
was artist or actress. She hadn't realized there were all KINDS of choices.
So give the two she knew of, she'd prefer artist, and the neighbors copied
her. <g>

What she really wanted was to feel light and good about painting and drawing
with chalk and "sculpting" things (play dough, junk, string in a tree).

Between then and lately, none of my kids had any statements made about what
they wanted to do, but lately (within the past couple of months) Marty has
named a set of three physical things: wrestler, Air Force MP or policeman.
Kirby has twice mentioned law, once mentioned programming.

I asked Marty yesterday whether he was saying policework because it didn't
need college. I asked him if he was afraid he couldn't do college. I
reminded him that when he was seven or eight he had asked me if they were
homeschooled because they weren't very smart. He laughed. Holly said, "You
thought that!?" (The little neighbors, who weren't very smart, had
suggested that to Marty, it had turned out.)

He said no, that he just wanted to do something really physical, and most
things people went to college for didn't seem to be physical.

I let it go at that point, but will think about it and look around. There's
the possibility of his doing ROTC, but if air force is really his interest,
this isn't the town. Homeschoolers and even unschoolers have done the air
force academy in Colorado Springs, but Marty's likely to be a big guy, not
air force size. Navy sized, maybe. There's naval ROTC at the University of
New Mexico. If he gets much taller he won't be submarine-size.

So I thought all those things, but I didn't say them to Marty. Maybe when it
comes up again. Maybe he'll end up being a produce buyer, or do fancy paint
jobs on city busses. There's a contest for kids to design a paint job for a
city bus here, and someone does it. All those things catch the kids'
interests. Maybe he'll end up working at Honeywell as an engineer like his
dad did. I'm not attached to any outcomes except that he feel life is alive
and he is a live part of it.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 12:47:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Holly told me last week that when she was little she had told the neighbors
> she wanted to be an artist when she grew up. So they all started saying
> they
> wanted to be artists too. But the whole field of choice she had at the
> time
> was artist or actress. She hadn't realized there were all KINDS of
> choices.
> So give the two she knew of, she'd prefer artist, and the neighbors copied
> her. <g>
>
>

That is funny. My sons change by the week. This week Dallen wants to be a
blacksmith.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/2003 9:36:35 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dezigna@... writes:

> I've been watching this thread about the future career issue, and I
> think one person mentioned it earlier - about discovering what it is
> about being a doctor that is attractive to the 14 year old. My daughter
> is three and talks about being a ballerina, but on further
> investigation, what she really wants is to wear her pink tutu around the
> house. By no means am I intending to trivialize the serious ambitions of
> the teenager, but merely to endorse the idea of seeking greater
> understanding of her true desires. I may have already missed further
> discussion of this question.
>
Since it seems to be of interest I thought I'd post about my talk with Cait
this morning. We were looking at the virtual frog dissection page (which she
thinks is way cool, so thanks for sending it along) and I asked her why it is
that she wants to be a doctor.

Her answer at first was short, typical of teenagers, "I've ALWAYS wanted to
be a doctor, you KNOW this". I said of course I KNOW this, and I've watched
her and think I know why but I'd like for her to tell me. She rapidly
explained to me that it was a GOOD career choice because if you look at any
of the projections the medical field is going to be in short supply by the
time she would be a licensed doctor. OK.

So then she began to tell me that she learned early on that there were "good"
doctors and the "not so good" ones. Some really make a difference in really
"being" with you when you are sick, not just thinking of you as a list of lab
tests and ailments to "fix". That a "good" doctor would be employable almost
anywhere in the world and be able to affect others in a good way.

I pointed out to here that sometimes sad things come from the medical field,
some fields have a lot of death and dying. She told me that is another
reason "good" doctors are so needed. She reminded me of when her baby
brother died and the doctor seemed totally distance and almost hateful with
us. I told her while it was hurtful to us, he probably had to be that way to
shield himself. She said EXACTLY why there NEEDS to be GOOD doctors. You
have to accept death as part of life and you are their to HELP your patients
and their families at times like that.

I have to add we've had our share of family deaths this year, six since Sept.
Five since December, all different ages, all but one very unexpected. So
maybe that pain is what drives her today, maybe tomorrow it will be something
else.

She did tell me about how if you EVER really got "bummed out" (her term) and
felt you weren't being the BEST doctor to your patients anymore, you can
always go into research or teach. She said both of those things would be
really neat too do too.

So without pushing for more that's about all she said and was off to look at
the frog stuff yet again.

I asked her if I could share her thoughts with this list, she said sure, but
make sure you tell them about the neat cell cake we baked last week. So, we
baked a round cake, frosted it and she decorated it with candies and such to
represent a cell, she's done it before but was in the mood to either bake,
buy licorice whips and fire balls and gum drops and jelly beans, to
experiment more, or maybe just eat cake!

She did show it to the neighborhood children and tell them all the names of
the parts of a cell before she let them have any, they seemed awe struck, but
they are eight years old and down. She loved it that they loved it.

So there is "part" of the reason as she left it with me.

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/2003 12:17:50 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> How can a day of a mom being resentful of what a child doesn't want to learn
>
> be ANY kind of an unschooling day?

I'm not "resentful" of what my child doesn't want to learn, only worried
that I am doing the right thing and that's what I asked about. I don't
understand how anyone could be resentful of their own child.

Prime example of things getting changed around that might make someone feel
bad, glad I'm growing the thick skin...

glena


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> He said no, that he just wanted to do something really physical, and most
> things people went to college for didn't seem to be physical.

He might also want to consider one of the blue collar trades, carpenter,
plumber, electrician, etc. They're physical, and they often make as much as
or more than college grads. At least in Canada, we're being told that there
will be a shortage of blue collar workers soon, as most parents and schools
have convinced kids that they have to do university to have a decent life.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

Have a Nice Day!

I'm just curious...how did the terms "blue collar" and "white collar" come into being?

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Tia Leschke
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2003 2:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] learning by osmosis (was new member intro)



>
> He said no, that he just wanted to do something really physical, and most
> things people went to college for didn't seem to be physical.

He might also want to consider one of the blue collar trades, carpenter,
plumber, electrician, etc. They're physical, and they often make as much as
or more than college grads. At least in Canada, we're being told that there
will be a shortage of blue collar workers soon, as most parents and schools
have convinced kids that they have to do university to have a decent life.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 12:34:59 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< > He said no, that he just wanted to do something really physical, and most

> things people went to college for didn't seem to be physical.


<<He might also want to consider one of the blue collar trades, carpenter,

plumber, electrician, etc. >>

I'll suggest those, as the conversation flows, someday. I think he's
interested in rules and people and uniforms, too, though, and carpenters
don't get those so much. <g> It seems the more complex the rules to a game
are, the more interested Marty is in playing it.


Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 1:00:49 PM, litlrooh@... writes:

<< I'm just curious...how did the terms "blue collar" and "white collar" come
into being? >>

From the time when collars were somewhat separate from shirts (19th century,
mostly) and some jobs required men to wear collars to work. Desk jobs.
Accounting (which used to be cool <g>). Banking.

But tradesmen didn't wear white collars, or white shirts even. And "blue
collar" is a more recent term. Maybe invented by Newsweek. :-)

My grandmother actually showed me how to remove and turn the collar on a
shirt. I had no interest whatsoever. But it seems it was commonly done by
ANY good housewife or by professional seamstresses/tailors, which my
grandmother did on the side for many years, to just about every decent shirt
at some point. They turned the collar and cuffs so the shirt looked newer
and lasted longer.

But before that, there were separate parts, replaced way before the shirt was
replaced, apparently.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
> I pointed out to here that sometimes sad things come from the medical
field,
> some fields have a lot of death and dying. She told me that is another
> reason "good" doctors are so needed. She reminded me of when her baby
> brother died and the doctor seemed totally distance and almost hateful
with
> us. I told her while it was hurtful to us, he probably had to be that way
to
> shield himself. She said EXACTLY why there NEEDS to be GOOD doctors.
You
> have to accept death as part of life and you are their to HELP your
patients
> and their families at times like that.

Something else she might want to consider at some point would be hospital
social worker. I think it's part of their job to help families through
tough decisions and experiences at the hospital.
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/2003 1:45:19 PM Eastern Daylight Time, genant2@...
writes:


> That is funny. My sons change by the week. This week Dallen wants to be a
> blacksmith.
> Pam G.
>

Pam, if he stays interested, look into John C Campbell's Blacksmithing (in
Brasstown, NC). Ben's going to take it sometime. I know they have a kids'
week sometime during the summer.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

> I'm just curious...how did the terms "blue collar" and "white collar" come
into being?

Not sure. The old white shirt and tie versus the blue work shirt?
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 1:58:09 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

> Her answer at first was short, typical of teenagers, "I've ALWAYS wanted to
> be a doctor, you KNOW this". I said of course I KNOW this, and I've
> watched
> her and think I know why but I'd like for her to tell me. She rapidly
> explained to me that it was a GOOD career choice because if you look at any
>
> of the projections the medical field is going to be in short supply by the
> time she would be a licensed doctor. OK.
>
>

Jackson is a family physician and the other day my youngest, Phillip-6, said
"Mom I wish dad worked at the grocery store, then he could be home more."

He gets paid well but works long and hard.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 4:45:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

> Pam, if he stays interested, look into John C Campbell's Blacksmithing (in
> Brasstown, NC). Ben's going to take it sometime. I know they have a kids'
> week sometime during the summer.
>
>

Thanks
Pam G


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: "Tia Leschke" <leschke@...>

<<Not sure. The old white shirt and tie versus the blue work shirt?>>



That's what I thought it was too. Business men wear white shirts with ties
and the physical labor men wear the blue work shirts.

Mary B

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/8/03 5:59:24 PM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:

<< So there is "part" of the reason as she left it with me. >>

Thank You for the Dr. conversation, and the cell cake story!!! Both pre-mo!
Lara.........

Kelly Lenhart

> I told her while it was hurtful to us, he probably had to be that way to
>shield himself. She said EXACTLY why there NEEDS to be GOOD doctors. You
>have to accept death as part of life and you are their to HELP your
patients
>and their families at times like that.


What a remarkable girl! I hope she DOES go into some sort of
care/therapudic career. She clearly has the right attitude. To be that
insightful about it at 14? Good for her.

Kelly

zenmomma *

>>I asked her if I could share her thoughts with this list, she said sure,
>>but make sure you tell them about the neat cell cake we baked last week.>>

LOL This is bringing back memories! My poor kids have heard for years about
my sad tale of making "cell jello" in 4th grade. It was a homework
assignment to be brought in and the examined and eaten the next day in
class. Well, I used life savers to represent one part of the cell and they
dissolved overnight as the jello set. I was upset the next morning that my
cell didn't have all the right parts. So my mom "helped" by putting in
sliced olives for the life savers. YUCK! I was supposed to eat that cell.
:-( I'm traumatized to this day. <g>

Life is good.
~Mary

"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."

~ Thich Nhat Hanh


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Robyn Coburn

Thanks for the post. Evidently Cait has thought long and hard about it,
from many points of view - practical and emotional. Good for her! I
guess she does have an interest in biology to judge by her examination
of frogs. Have faith that she will think equally carefully about the
college stuff and pre-requisites needed when the time comes. I bet she
manages the math part in record time! Talking about why is good practice
for the interviews for her admittance.



Robyn Coburn



<<We were looking at the virtual frog dissection page (which she
thinks is way cool, so thanks for sending it along) and I asked her why
it is that she wants to be a doctor.>>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 4/9/03 10:04:36 AM, zenmomma@... writes:

<< LOL This is bringing back memories! My poor kids have heard for years
about
my sad tale of making "cell jello" in 4th grade. It was a homework
assignment to be brought in and the examined and eaten the next day in
class. Well, I used life savers to represent one part of the cell and they
dissolved overnight as the jello set. I was upset the next morning that my
cell didn't have all the right parts. So my mom "helped" by putting in
sliced olives for the life savers. YUCK! I was supposed to eat that cell.
:-( I'm traumatized to this day. <g> >>

In college I figured out a way to pull veins out of the thick red jello
squares they gave us at the cafeteria. I would pull one hair out of my head
and using it like a taut-string-saw-tool (I don't know the word for such a
thing), would cut down into the jello, make a circle, and pull the hair out
gently, downward.

The jello looked undisturbed.

Then when someone else came to sit down and there was a lull or I wanted to
change the subject or gross someone out, I would say "EEyew! A VEIN in my
JELLO!" and would open that slice with my fingers, and pull out the little
red rod of jello I had cut.

I thought it was hilarious, when I was 19. I did it half a dozen times.

Somehow, still I had friends.

Sandra