handling conflict
averyschmidt
I really need some ideas for creative ways of handling conflict
among family members, or else a different perspective on conflict
before I lose my mind!
Some examples:
1. We have a small, 3 br house. One child has his own room, and the
other two share. As a result, only one child has the power to be
alone whenever he wants which causes hard feelings for my middle
child.
2. One of my older children wants my attention (to play cards, or
whatever), and my 3yo wants to climb on the table, be on my lap,
hold my cards, and change the rules of the game. Eventually someone
is crying or the older child storms off in a huff and slams his door.
3. We are on an outing with other homeschoolers, and my oldest
child's friend didn't show up. He begins complaining, loudly, in
the middle of my conversation with another mother, that he wants to
leave NOW. I suggest he play GBA in the car for twenty minutes or
so since we'd driven all the way there, I was in the middle of a
conversation, and his youngest brother was having fun playing. This
isn't acceptable to him, so we end up leaving with half of us
resentful that we left and half of us resentful that we wasted an
hour going in the first place.
4. One child is singing in the common area of the house, and it's
bothering the other children. When the singing child realizes this,
he sings even louder, apparently enjoying the commotion he's causing.
I could go on. Sometimes it seems that the intense family
togetherness that unschooling brings is one big exercise for me in
mediating conflict and hanging onto my sanity by a thread.
For those of you with more than one child, how do you deal with the
rift between what I perceive to be the unschooling "ideal"
(everybody happily doing their thing, together or apart, and
supporting each other's journeys) and the day to day reality which
can be quite different?
Help.
Patti
among family members, or else a different perspective on conflict
before I lose my mind!
Some examples:
1. We have a small, 3 br house. One child has his own room, and the
other two share. As a result, only one child has the power to be
alone whenever he wants which causes hard feelings for my middle
child.
2. One of my older children wants my attention (to play cards, or
whatever), and my 3yo wants to climb on the table, be on my lap,
hold my cards, and change the rules of the game. Eventually someone
is crying or the older child storms off in a huff and slams his door.
3. We are on an outing with other homeschoolers, and my oldest
child's friend didn't show up. He begins complaining, loudly, in
the middle of my conversation with another mother, that he wants to
leave NOW. I suggest he play GBA in the car for twenty minutes or
so since we'd driven all the way there, I was in the middle of a
conversation, and his youngest brother was having fun playing. This
isn't acceptable to him, so we end up leaving with half of us
resentful that we left and half of us resentful that we wasted an
hour going in the first place.
4. One child is singing in the common area of the house, and it's
bothering the other children. When the singing child realizes this,
he sings even louder, apparently enjoying the commotion he's causing.
I could go on. Sometimes it seems that the intense family
togetherness that unschooling brings is one big exercise for me in
mediating conflict and hanging onto my sanity by a thread.
For those of you with more than one child, how do you deal with the
rift between what I perceive to be the unschooling "ideal"
(everybody happily doing their thing, together or apart, and
supporting each other's journeys) and the day to day reality which
can be quite different?
Help.
Patti
sablehs
averyschmidt <patti.schmidt2@...> wrote:
I really need some ideas for creative ways of handling conflict
among family members, or else a different perspective on conflict
before I lose my mind!
My two oldest ages 9 3/4 and 7,{for now anyway}with the video games. one person is "in charge" one day and switch off day the next day. They seem to want to cooperate better because the oldest isn't always the one in charge.
They want to play with each other but there is always conflict about WHAT they are going to play and who is in charge of controler #1. LOL
Seems to help for me.
Tracy {ready for any critisism of my "idea" LOL}
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I really need some ideas for creative ways of handling conflict
among family members, or else a different perspective on conflict
before I lose my mind!
My two oldest ages 9 3/4 and 7,{for now anyway}with the video games. one person is "in charge" one day and switch off day the next day. They seem to want to cooperate better because the oldest isn't always the one in charge.
They want to play with each other but there is always conflict about WHAT they are going to play and who is in charge of controler #1. LOL
Seems to help for me.
Tracy {ready for any critisism of my "idea" LOL}
---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 11:54:35 AM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
<< 1. We have a small, 3 br house. One child has his own room, and the
other two share. As a result, only one child has the power to be
alone whenever he wants which causes hard feelings for my middle
child. >>
Treehouse, playhouse, little soft place behind the couch. (things we had
when we were in a little house and all three kids shared)
<<2. One of my older children wants my attention (to play cards, or
whatever), and my 3yo wants to climb on the table, be on my lap,
hold my cards, and change the rules of the game. Eventually someone
is crying or the older child storms off in a huff and slams his door.>>
We would rush to play a game when the youngest was asleep. That's the only
time we did jigsaw puzzles and they had to be no more than 100 pieces. I
didn't sew when any toddler was awake for fear of losing the pins at and into
the hands of a flinging baby.
Sometimes I would hire a slightly older neighbor girl (11, 12) to play with
the baby and then we had time for older-kid stuff.
#3, I came to hate group outings, so my advice is don't go. Or just go with
one other family you can depend on.
4. One child is singing in the common area of the house, and it's
bothering the other children. When the singing child realizes this,
he sings even louder, apparently enjoying the commotion he's causing.
We encourage singing. I'd tell the kids who didn't want to hear it to go out
and play with the dog. "She can't sing forever!" Or (not quite as
friendly) they could sing WITH the singing child, and not quite get the words
or tune right. That has happened here. Retaliatory sing-along.
<<For those of you with more than one child, how do you deal with the
rift between what I perceive to be the unschooling "ideal"
(everybody happily doing their thing, together or apart, and
supporting each other's journeys) and the day to day reality which
can be quite different?>>>
Usually there's one kid who could be removed to best advantage.
Distraction, "special job" of some sort, exporting them with dad or
neighbors, importing another kid to change the dynamics...
But if there are TWO kids melting down, I'd try to take them somewhere with
more room. Playground, or children's museum or even just out for french
fries or ice cream.
Sandra
<< 1. We have a small, 3 br house. One child has his own room, and the
other two share. As a result, only one child has the power to be
alone whenever he wants which causes hard feelings for my middle
child. >>
Treehouse, playhouse, little soft place behind the couch. (things we had
when we were in a little house and all three kids shared)
<<2. One of my older children wants my attention (to play cards, or
whatever), and my 3yo wants to climb on the table, be on my lap,
hold my cards, and change the rules of the game. Eventually someone
is crying or the older child storms off in a huff and slams his door.>>
We would rush to play a game when the youngest was asleep. That's the only
time we did jigsaw puzzles and they had to be no more than 100 pieces. I
didn't sew when any toddler was awake for fear of losing the pins at and into
the hands of a flinging baby.
Sometimes I would hire a slightly older neighbor girl (11, 12) to play with
the baby and then we had time for older-kid stuff.
#3, I came to hate group outings, so my advice is don't go. Or just go with
one other family you can depend on.
4. One child is singing in the common area of the house, and it's
bothering the other children. When the singing child realizes this,
he sings even louder, apparently enjoying the commotion he's causing.
We encourage singing. I'd tell the kids who didn't want to hear it to go out
and play with the dog. "She can't sing forever!" Or (not quite as
friendly) they could sing WITH the singing child, and not quite get the words
or tune right. That has happened here. Retaliatory sing-along.
<<For those of you with more than one child, how do you deal with the
rift between what I perceive to be the unschooling "ideal"
(everybody happily doing their thing, together or apart, and
supporting each other's journeys) and the day to day reality which
can be quite different?>>>
Usually there's one kid who could be removed to best advantage.
Distraction, "special job" of some sort, exporting them with dad or
neighbors, importing another kid to change the dynamics...
But if there are TWO kids melting down, I'd try to take them somewhere with
more room. Playground, or children's museum or even just out for french
fries or ice cream.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 12:24:29 PM, sablehs@... writes:
<< They want to play with each other but there is always conflict about WHAT
they are going to play and who is in charge of controler #1. LOL >>
We used to have rotations on who could pick where to sit in the car. What
messed it up was if one wasn't in on a particular trip and lost a turn. If
two kids were there, the rotation proceded. If only one was there it didn't
count, since he could pick.
In case of conflicts outside of turn taking, we did scissors/paper/stone.
Once in public Holly and Marty disagreed about who was going to ride on Keith
shoulders and without saying a word about it, they both did the
scissors/paper/stone thing, and whoever won went up there and the other was
fine. We were in a restaurant, and a couple of tables of people who were
nearby commented on how cool and civilized that was, and that they'd never
seen kids settle something that way.
With video games, it was someone's turn. If it was Kirby's turn and he was
letting Marty play with him, he could call the shots. If it was Marty's
turn, he could choose the controller, choose the chair, choose to play alone
or with Kirby, but it was Marty's time. When he chose to stop, Holly was up.
Her turn might be short or long or passed. Then it was Kirby's.
Sandra
<< They want to play with each other but there is always conflict about WHAT
they are going to play and who is in charge of controler #1. LOL >>
We used to have rotations on who could pick where to sit in the car. What
messed it up was if one wasn't in on a particular trip and lost a turn. If
two kids were there, the rotation proceded. If only one was there it didn't
count, since he could pick.
In case of conflicts outside of turn taking, we did scissors/paper/stone.
Once in public Holly and Marty disagreed about who was going to ride on Keith
shoulders and without saying a word about it, they both did the
scissors/paper/stone thing, and whoever won went up there and the other was
fine. We were in a restaurant, and a couple of tables of people who were
nearby commented on how cool and civilized that was, and that they'd never
seen kids settle something that way.
With video games, it was someone's turn. If it was Kirby's turn and he was
letting Marty play with him, he could call the shots. If it was Marty's
turn, he could choose the controller, choose the chair, choose to play alone
or with Kirby, but it was Marty's time. When he chose to stop, Holly was up.
Her turn might be short or long or passed. Then it was Kirby's.
Sandra
averyschmidt
> Usually there's one kid who could be removed to best advantage.or
> Distraction, "special job" of some sort, exporting them with dad
> neighbors, importing another kid to change the dynamics...My kids have grown immune to distraction when they are busily
annoying each other. Even something that they'd normally jump to do
they will purposely resist if they know that my goal is to stop the
annoying or teasing.
It's an unbelievably constant battle.
> But if there are TWO kids melting down, I'd try to take themsomewhere with
> more room. Playground, or children's museum or even just out forfrench
> fries or ice cream.9 times out of 10 one of them would want to stay home and continue
what they were doing- video games or whatever, while the other would
jump at the idea of going somewhere. I'd be exchanging one conflict
for another.
If I could clone myself or was rich enough to hire a full time
helper my life would be a breeze.
I don't mean to sound resistant to advice... I do appreciate it.
I'm just incredibly burned out. It scares me because I know several
local families who previously homeschooled but ended up putting the
kids in school because they simply couldn't stand the fighting. It
scares me because my husband already sees this as the only solution-
I have to remind him of our reasons for keeping them out of school
in the first place.
He means well... he's looking out for my mental health since I'm the
one with the kids all day.
There has to be a better solution.
Patti
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 2:03:12 PM, patti.schmidt2@... writes:
<< He means well... he's looking out for my mental health since I'm the
one with the kids all day. >>
Then I would take each child aside alone, maybe for a walk in the yard and
tell them things HAVE to change if they want to stay home. That home under
the present conditions is not going to continue. And ask them what needs to
happen for them to act better.
Sandra
<< He means well... he's looking out for my mental health since I'm the
one with the kids all day. >>
Then I would take each child aside alone, maybe for a walk in the yard and
tell them things HAVE to change if they want to stay home. That home under
the present conditions is not going to continue. And ask them what needs to
happen for them to act better.
Sandra
averyschmidt
> Then I would take each child aside alone, maybe for a walk in theyard and
> tell them things HAVE to change if they want to stay home. Thathome under
> the present conditions is not going to continue. And ask themwhat needs to
> happen for them to act better.This is where we are at this week- lots of talking about this.
Tears on my part and everything. We've had cycles like this before,
and unfortunately the kids now see "things HAVE to change if you
want to stay home" as a totally empty threat. Hence my husband
thinking they NEED to go, at least for a semester, in order to see
how good they have it and to know we mean it.
I'd rather things get better without having to resort to that.
Patti
kayb85
--- In [email protected], "averyschmidt"
<patti.schmidt2@v...> wrote:
that if I have another baby and if it's a girl, their sister will
have to share her room too. They have the option of fixing attic
rooms into bedrooms, but they don't want to go up there. When
they're older I bet they might. I had the idea of hanging some kind
of fabric, like a curtain between the two beds, so they can have
their own "space" in their room. I've also seen single bedrooms be
seperated by big dressers and shelves back to back going down the
middle of the room. They didn't like those ideas. But maybe one of
my ideas will work for you! lol
That is tough too. I hate when three different children want me to
do three different things at the same time. It can be really hard to
come up with ways to make everyone happy. My 5 and 9 year olds love
to play Uno, but they only want to play one on one with me. So I
suggested we just take turns. Some nights they accept it peacefully
but sometimes they fight over it. Especially my 9 year old, because
she used to have me exclusively for Uno until her brother learned how
to play. It's just not fun playing with one child while the other
child pouts and cries about having to wait his turn right beside
him. Last night my daughter was having an especially hard time
accepting that she had to share me, and I solved the problem by
pulling out a book that I had bought and put aside for a special
time. So she didn't mind sitting and reading the new book every time
I played a hand with her brother.
Maybe you could get a second deck of cards, set the three year old on
the table beside you, and let him "play" while you play?
house. I've already gone places--playgrounds, skating rinks,
libraries, etc.--because the 9 and 3 year old want to go but the 5
year old doesn't. Nothing will make him happy when I drag him away
from the house and he spends the whole time pulling on me trying to
get me to go home. It's exhausting when he's like that! The best
solution of course is to try to go on excursions when my husband is
home so that he can just stay home with him, but when there's a
birthday party at noon and dh is still at work, the only way to take
2 of the kids who want to go is to drag him along to.
But if it were my oldest child having the problem you described (It's
so much easier coming up with a solution for someone else, isn't it?
lol) I would probably try apologizing to my friend that I couldn't
keep chatting because my child needs my help with a struggle he's
having. If she's a good enough friend and if your younger child is
comfortable with you being away for a little while, maybe even ask
her to keep an eye on my youngest child, and take the older child for
a walk and listen to his troubles and give him some mommy support.
I know the key is to figure out why they are getting a kick out of
annoying their siblings--maybe it's jealousy or boredom. I know that
when I have days that each child doesn't get the one on one time with
me that he needs, that the behavior is worse.
Another thing that I've seen have some positive results on some
behavior issues with my kids is homeoapthy. Just something that I'll
throw out there for your consideration.
But even with giving them enough of my time and with the homeopathy,
my kids still do things to bother each other on purpose and they seem
to get a kick out of seeing each other get upset. I try to tell my
daughter (9) that if she wouldn't get all dramatic and let her
younger brothers see her being affected by them they would probably
stop doing it, because they do it to get a charge out of her. They
think it's funny when big sister cries and throws a fit and yells and
screams all kinds of things at them in frustration. I told her that
when they bother her to go to her room and scream in her pillow and
calm herself down, or even to quietly ask me to come with her to her
room and talk and cry with me so that they don't see that they have
the power to get her to put on a show for them. She doesn't listen
to my advice all the time though.
but sometimes I feel overwhelmed and think that the only way things
can be truly peaceful all the time is if there were more than just
one adult in the house striving towards the idea. When dh is home
things are easier, because while I take one child somewhere he can
stay home with the one who doesn't want to leave home, or he can play
a game with someone while I make supper, or comfort a child while I
talk to another. The moments when all three kids want to do the same
thing, or one can keep himself occupied while I do something with
another are precious, but they certainly don't happen all the time!
I often have three kids pulling me in three different directions.
I've found that there is often a creative solution if you're willing
to really apply yourself but not always. Or sometimes I'm just too
tired to think clearly enough to come up with a creative solution.
I am resolved that if my children have children, I want to be
available to them to help them unschool their children. If my
daughter has three kids pulling her in three different directions,
grandma Sheila will be there to take one or two of them and do
something really special with them while their mom does what she
needs to do with the other one. I really think that an active,
loving grandmother involved in the lives of families with young
children could GREATLY contribute to the peace of the family.
I also think that you get better coming up with creative solutions
with practice. I've made a lot of mistakes and had to put a lot of
thought into thinking of ways that I could have done things better.
Sometimes I can't figure out how I could have dealt with the
situation better and I post on here and ask for ideas. I always get
awesome input here. Then when a similar situation comes up again I
have a better idea of how to handle it. There is nothing more
satisfying to me than to have an especially difficult situation with
my children come up and for me to be able to sit back afterwards and
say, "Wow, I handled that really well!" And I think it's that desire
to be able to say that all the time that makes me a little bit moody
when things don't turn out as peacefully as I had hoped. I have to
constantly keep reminding myself that in real life the roads won't
always be smooth.
One time when they were fighting over who I would tuck in first, with
one jumping on me, crying and trying to pull me off the bed because
he thought I should be tucking him in first, I bribed one of them. I
just quietly whispered to him that if he lets me lay with his brother
until he falls asleep, I would go downstairs and make chocolate chip
cookies with him. He agreed and we ended up having an extra special
night together. I almost didn't do it, because I thought to myself
that I can't get into the habit of bribing. Sooner or later it will
stop working because they'll catch on, or sometimes I'll be too tired
to stay up really late doing activities to make one child happy
because he didn't get tucked in first. But that night I figured that
I just really wanted peace right at that moment and that I would
worry about tomorrow night when tomorrow came. And yes, I have
nights that they all want tucked in first and I just have to choose
one. I've tried taking turns so it's fair and they don't like that.
But when I take it one night at a time and really concentrate on the
present moment and ask myself just for THIS NIGHT how can I help
these guys go to bed happy, I often come up with happy solutions.
Not always! But often.
Sheila
<patti.schmidt2@v...> wrote:
> I really need some ideas for creative ways of handling conflictthe
> among family members, or else a different perspective on conflict
> before I lose my mind!
> Some examples:
>
> 1. We have a small, 3 br house. One child has his own room, and
> other two share. As a result, only one child has the power to beWe have that problem too. I have consoled my boys by telling them
> alone whenever he wants which causes hard feelings for my middle
> child.
that if I have another baby and if it's a girl, their sister will
have to share her room too. They have the option of fixing attic
rooms into bedrooms, but they don't want to go up there. When
they're older I bet they might. I had the idea of hanging some kind
of fabric, like a curtain between the two beds, so they can have
their own "space" in their room. I've also seen single bedrooms be
seperated by big dressers and shelves back to back going down the
middle of the room. They didn't like those ideas. But maybe one of
my ideas will work for you! lol
> 2. One of my older children wants my attention (to play cards, orsomeone
> whatever), and my 3yo wants to climb on the table, be on my lap,
> hold my cards, and change the rules of the game. Eventually
> is crying or the older child storms off in a huff and slams hisdoor.
That is tough too. I hate when three different children want me to
do three different things at the same time. It can be really hard to
come up with ways to make everyone happy. My 5 and 9 year olds love
to play Uno, but they only want to play one on one with me. So I
suggested we just take turns. Some nights they accept it peacefully
but sometimes they fight over it. Especially my 9 year old, because
she used to have me exclusively for Uno until her brother learned how
to play. It's just not fun playing with one child while the other
child pouts and cries about having to wait his turn right beside
him. Last night my daughter was having an especially hard time
accepting that she had to share me, and I solved the problem by
pulling out a book that I had bought and put aside for a special
time. So she didn't mind sitting and reading the new book every time
I played a hand with her brother.
Maybe you could get a second deck of cards, set the three year old on
the table beside you, and let him "play" while you play?
> 3. We are on an outing with other homeschoolers, and my oldestThis
> child's friend didn't show up. He begins complaining, loudly, in
> the middle of my conversation with another mother, that he wants to
> leave NOW. I suggest he play GBA in the car for twenty minutes or
> so since we'd driven all the way there, I was in the middle of a
> conversation, and his youngest brother was having fun playing.
> isn't acceptable to him, so we end up leaving with half of usAgain, I can relate! I have a son who just doesn't like to leave his
> resentful that we left and half of us resentful that we wasted an
> hour going in the first place.
house. I've already gone places--playgrounds, skating rinks,
libraries, etc.--because the 9 and 3 year old want to go but the 5
year old doesn't. Nothing will make him happy when I drag him away
from the house and he spends the whole time pulling on me trying to
get me to go home. It's exhausting when he's like that! The best
solution of course is to try to go on excursions when my husband is
home so that he can just stay home with him, but when there's a
birthday party at noon and dh is still at work, the only way to take
2 of the kids who want to go is to drag him along to.
But if it were my oldest child having the problem you described (It's
so much easier coming up with a solution for someone else, isn't it?
lol) I would probably try apologizing to my friend that I couldn't
keep chatting because my child needs my help with a struggle he's
having. If she's a good enough friend and if your younger child is
comfortable with you being away for a little while, maybe even ask
her to keep an eye on my youngest child, and take the older child for
a walk and listen to his troubles and give him some mommy support.
> 4. One child is singing in the common area of the house, and it'sthis,
> bothering the other children. When the singing child realizes
> he sings even louder, apparently enjoying the commotion he'scausing.
I know the key is to figure out why they are getting a kick out of
annoying their siblings--maybe it's jealousy or boredom. I know that
when I have days that each child doesn't get the one on one time with
me that he needs, that the behavior is worse.
Another thing that I've seen have some positive results on some
behavior issues with my kids is homeoapthy. Just something that I'll
throw out there for your consideration.
But even with giving them enough of my time and with the homeopathy,
my kids still do things to bother each other on purpose and they seem
to get a kick out of seeing each other get upset. I try to tell my
daughter (9) that if she wouldn't get all dramatic and let her
younger brothers see her being affected by them they would probably
stop doing it, because they do it to get a charge out of her. They
think it's funny when big sister cries and throws a fit and yells and
screams all kinds of things at them in frustration. I told her that
when they bother her to go to her room and scream in her pillow and
calm herself down, or even to quietly ask me to come with her to her
room and talk and cry with me so that they don't see that they have
the power to get her to put on a show for them. She doesn't listen
to my advice all the time though.
> I could go on. Sometimes it seems that the intense familyFor me, I still see the unschooling "ideal" in our day to day reality
> togetherness that unschooling brings is one big exercise for me in
> mediating conflict and hanging onto my sanity by a thread.
>
> For those of you with more than one child, how do you deal with the
> rift between what I perceive to be the unschooling "ideal"
> (everybody happily doing their thing, together or apart, and
> supporting each other's journeys) and the day to day reality which
> can be quite different?
>
> Help.
> Patti
but sometimes I feel overwhelmed and think that the only way things
can be truly peaceful all the time is if there were more than just
one adult in the house striving towards the idea. When dh is home
things are easier, because while I take one child somewhere he can
stay home with the one who doesn't want to leave home, or he can play
a game with someone while I make supper, or comfort a child while I
talk to another. The moments when all three kids want to do the same
thing, or one can keep himself occupied while I do something with
another are precious, but they certainly don't happen all the time!
I often have three kids pulling me in three different directions.
I've found that there is often a creative solution if you're willing
to really apply yourself but not always. Or sometimes I'm just too
tired to think clearly enough to come up with a creative solution.
I am resolved that if my children have children, I want to be
available to them to help them unschool their children. If my
daughter has three kids pulling her in three different directions,
grandma Sheila will be there to take one or two of them and do
something really special with them while their mom does what she
needs to do with the other one. I really think that an active,
loving grandmother involved in the lives of families with young
children could GREATLY contribute to the peace of the family.
I also think that you get better coming up with creative solutions
with practice. I've made a lot of mistakes and had to put a lot of
thought into thinking of ways that I could have done things better.
Sometimes I can't figure out how I could have dealt with the
situation better and I post on here and ask for ideas. I always get
awesome input here. Then when a similar situation comes up again I
have a better idea of how to handle it. There is nothing more
satisfying to me than to have an especially difficult situation with
my children come up and for me to be able to sit back afterwards and
say, "Wow, I handled that really well!" And I think it's that desire
to be able to say that all the time that makes me a little bit moody
when things don't turn out as peacefully as I had hoped. I have to
constantly keep reminding myself that in real life the roads won't
always be smooth.
One time when they were fighting over who I would tuck in first, with
one jumping on me, crying and trying to pull me off the bed because
he thought I should be tucking him in first, I bribed one of them. I
just quietly whispered to him that if he lets me lay with his brother
until he falls asleep, I would go downstairs and make chocolate chip
cookies with him. He agreed and we ended up having an extra special
night together. I almost didn't do it, because I thought to myself
that I can't get into the habit of bribing. Sooner or later it will
stop working because they'll catch on, or sometimes I'll be too tired
to stay up really late doing activities to make one child happy
because he didn't get tucked in first. But that night I figured that
I just really wanted peace right at that moment and that I would
worry about tomorrow night when tomorrow came. And yes, I have
nights that they all want tucked in first and I just have to choose
one. I've tried taking turns so it's fair and they don't like that.
But when I take it one night at a time and really concentrate on the
present moment and ask myself just for THIS NIGHT how can I help
these guys go to bed happy, I often come up with happy solutions.
Not always! But often.
Sheila
kayb85
> In case of conflicts outside of turn taking, we didscissors/paper/stone.
> Once in public Holly and Marty disagreed about who was going toride on Keith
> shoulders and without saying a word about it, they both did theother was
> scissors/paper/stone thing, and whoever won went up there and the
> fine. We were in a restaurant, and a couple of tables of peoplewho were
> nearby commented on how cool and civilized that was, and thatthey'd never
> seen kids settle something that way.My son refuses to do rock-scissors-paper because he's afraid he might
lose. On rare occasions that he does agree to it, he has a major
melt down when he loses.
Sheila
kayb85
I can't agree with that advice. Staying home should be a right, not
a privilage. I wouldn't threaten my kids with being sent away from
to go to school (the thought would terrify them!) anymore than I
would threaten to send them away to a boarding school or convent.
Sheila
a privilage. I wouldn't threaten my kids with being sent away from
to go to school (the thought would terrify them!) anymore than I
would threaten to send them away to a boarding school or convent.
Sheila
> Then I would take each child aside alone, maybe for a walk in theyard and
> tell them things HAVE to change if they want to stay home. Thathome under
> the present conditions is not going to continue. And ask them whatneeds to
> happen for them to act better.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 8:45:34 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< I can't agree with that advice. Staying home should be a right, not
a privilage. I wouldn't threaten my kids with being sent away from
to go to school (the thought would terrify them!) anymore than I
would threaten to send them away to a boarding school or convent. >>
If one of mine seemed determined to make the lives of the others miserable
despite my advice and requests and pleadings, I would threaten to boarding
school or convent before I would allow the other children's lives to be made
miserable.
The piece of advice you criticized came after many other things which have
worked with my kids.
If nothing works, why should home be "a right"?
Children have the right to have as much peace as possible in their own homes.
I don't see that anyone has the right to torment others.
Sandra
<< I can't agree with that advice. Staying home should be a right, not
a privilage. I wouldn't threaten my kids with being sent away from
to go to school (the thought would terrify them!) anymore than I
would threaten to send them away to a boarding school or convent. >>
If one of mine seemed determined to make the lives of the others miserable
despite my advice and requests and pleadings, I would threaten to boarding
school or convent before I would allow the other children's lives to be made
miserable.
The piece of advice you criticized came after many other things which have
worked with my kids.
If nothing works, why should home be "a right"?
Children have the right to have as much peace as possible in their own homes.
I don't see that anyone has the right to torment others.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 8:57:54 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< I almost didn't do it, because I thought to myself
that I can't get into the habit of bribing. Sooner or later it will
stop working because they'll catch on >>
Catch on to what?
<<I have
nights that they all want tucked in first and I just have to choose
one. I've tried taking turns so it's fair and they don't like that. >>
Scissors/paper/stone?
Dice roll?
Musical chairs? Cards?
Maybe a game where the first one out gets tucked in first, the other two keep
playing, and the winner "gets" to stay up latest!
Sandra
<< I almost didn't do it, because I thought to myself
that I can't get into the habit of bribing. Sooner or later it will
stop working because they'll catch on >>
Catch on to what?
<<I have
nights that they all want tucked in first and I just have to choose
one. I've tried taking turns so it's fair and they don't like that. >>
Scissors/paper/stone?
Dice roll?
Musical chairs? Cards?
Maybe a game where the first one out gets tucked in first, the other two keep
playing, and the winner "gets" to stay up latest!
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 8:41:23 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< My son refuses to do rock-scissors-paper because he's afraid he might
lose. On rare occasions that he does agree to it, he has a major
melt down when he loses.
Bummer.
Sorry.
Sandra
<< My son refuses to do rock-scissors-paper because he's afraid he might
lose. On rare occasions that he does agree to it, he has a major
melt down when he loses.
>>Ooops. Read mail backwards.
Bummer.
Sorry.
Sandra
Tia Leschke
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
fighting for my benefit. In fact, a few times I caught them only
*pretending* to fight. *If* that seems to be the case, the best thing you
can do is take yourself as far out of the picture as is safe, depending on
the age of the kids and whether they tend to actually hurt each other. They
might not fight much at all when the audience is out of the picture.
Tia
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...
>Sounds like when my kids were younger. I finally realized that they were
> My kids have grown immune to distraction when they are busily
> annoying each other. Even something that they'd normally jump to do
> they will purposely resist if they know that my goal is to stop the
> annoying or teasing.
> It's an unbelievably constant battle.
fighting for my benefit. In fact, a few times I caught them only
*pretending* to fight. *If* that seems to be the case, the best thing you
can do is take yourself as far out of the picture as is safe, depending on
the age of the kids and whether they tend to actually hurt each other. They
might not fight much at all when the audience is out of the picture.
Tia
kayb85
--- In [email protected], SandraDodd@a... wrote:
up having one on one time with mom, and they'll not allow themselves
to go to sleep just to make sure that I don't sneak downstairs with
someone.
real possiblity that he might be the loser. Or they will play and
throw a fit because they lost and we might as well have never played
at all. They cry and pout and jump on me and their brother as I'm
lying with him on his bed.
But not always. When dh is off of work the next day and doesn't have
to go to bed really early, he can help occupy one child while I help
the other. Lately my daughter has been going to bed earlier than the
boys are ready to go to bed, so at least her bed time is more
peaceful. Sometimes the three year old falls asleep downstairs and
all I have to do is carry him upstairs. And of course some nights
they don't whine and demand to be first.
Sometimes we lay blankets out on the livingroom floor and we all
sleep down there, which eliminates the issue of who gets tucked in
first. Of course then there's the fighting over which two get to lay
beside me! lol, there's always something to fight over.
Sheila
>will
> In a message dated 4/2/03 8:57:54 PM, sheran@p... writes:
>
> << I almost didn't do it, because I thought to myself
>
> that I can't get into the habit of bribing. Sooner or later it
>They'll catch on that once they fall asleep, their sibling might be
> stop working because they'll catch on >>
>
> Catch on to what?
up having one on one time with mom, and they'll not allow themselves
to go to sleep just to make sure that I don't sneak downstairs with
someone.
> <<I havethat. >>
>
> nights that they all want tucked in first and I just have to choose
>
> one. I've tried taking turns so it's fair and they don't like
>They refuse to play, because each child knows that there is a very
> Scissors/paper/stone?
> Dice roll?
> Musical chairs? Cards?
real possiblity that he might be the loser. Or they will play and
throw a fit because they lost and we might as well have never played
at all. They cry and pout and jump on me and their brother as I'm
lying with him on his bed.
But not always. When dh is off of work the next day and doesn't have
to go to bed really early, he can help occupy one child while I help
the other. Lately my daughter has been going to bed earlier than the
boys are ready to go to bed, so at least her bed time is more
peaceful. Sometimes the three year old falls asleep downstairs and
all I have to do is carry him upstairs. And of course some nights
they don't whine and demand to be first.
> Maybe a game where the first one out gets tucked in first, theother two keep
> playing, and the winner "gets" to stay up latest!I think the problem is that no one wants to be the last one up.
Sometimes we lay blankets out on the livingroom floor and we all
sleep down there, which eliminates the issue of who gets tucked in
first. Of course then there's the fighting over which two get to lay
beside me! lol, there's always something to fight over.
Sheila
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 10:10:43 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< *If* that seems to be the case, the best thing you
can do is take yourself as far out of the picture as is safe, depending on
the age of the kids and whether they tend to actually hurt each other. >>
Kirby has said some pretty cutting things to Marty without even raising his
voice. "Actually hurt" isn't easy to judge.
Sandra
<< *If* that seems to be the case, the best thing you
can do is take yourself as far out of the picture as is safe, depending on
the age of the kids and whether they tend to actually hurt each other. >>
Kirby has said some pretty cutting things to Marty without even raising his
voice. "Actually hurt" isn't easy to judge.
Sandra
kayb85
Perhaps I'm being overly optimistic, that there's always a way to
work through what's causing them to act that way.
Or perhaps I'm overly sensitive to the idea of "sending the problem
child away", even if it is only to school, because of my brother. My
parents were very strict and my mom had severe emotional problems. I
became the over-compliant, I'll-do-anything-to-please you-and-then-
maybe-you'll-love-me child and he became outrightly rebellious. He
refused to go to school and church, refused to go to bed at night,
refused to eat meals with the family, refused to pick up after
himself, cursed at my parents and even fought back physically when my
dad tried to force him to do something. My parents kept getting
stricter and taking away more privelages, until he got to the point
where he wasn't allowed to leave the house except for church and
school and had no more material posessions left.(and we lived where
you couldn't walk anywhere and he had no transportation) His
attitude was that eventually they'll run out of things to take away
from him and then they won't be able to control him anymore.
My dad had police officers help drag him out of bed and force him to
school once. And once, he was drug to a psychiatric ward of a
hospital because he was such a behavior problem. He wasn't the one
who needed to be taken to a psychiatric hospital.
When my kids have a behavior problem that seems impossible, the first
thing I do lately is tell myself that maybe my mindful parenting
isn't quite mindful enough. Did I spend enough time that day with
that child, doing something that is important to him? Is he jealous
of his sister and maybe I can help him work through that jealousy?
And usually I'm able to find what I can do differently that will make
the situation better. When I'm not able to make the situation
better, I just figure that I need more practice and experience at
being a peaceful parent. Or maybe they're out of balance and need a
homeopathic remedy.
But never, ever, ever will any of my children be threatened with
being taken away from their home.
Sheila
work through what's causing them to act that way.
Or perhaps I'm overly sensitive to the idea of "sending the problem
child away", even if it is only to school, because of my brother. My
parents were very strict and my mom had severe emotional problems. I
became the over-compliant, I'll-do-anything-to-please you-and-then-
maybe-you'll-love-me child and he became outrightly rebellious. He
refused to go to school and church, refused to go to bed at night,
refused to eat meals with the family, refused to pick up after
himself, cursed at my parents and even fought back physically when my
dad tried to force him to do something. My parents kept getting
stricter and taking away more privelages, until he got to the point
where he wasn't allowed to leave the house except for church and
school and had no more material posessions left.(and we lived where
you couldn't walk anywhere and he had no transportation) His
attitude was that eventually they'll run out of things to take away
from him and then they won't be able to control him anymore.
My dad had police officers help drag him out of bed and force him to
school once. And once, he was drug to a psychiatric ward of a
hospital because he was such a behavior problem. He wasn't the one
who needed to be taken to a psychiatric hospital.
When my kids have a behavior problem that seems impossible, the first
thing I do lately is tell myself that maybe my mindful parenting
isn't quite mindful enough. Did I spend enough time that day with
that child, doing something that is important to him? Is he jealous
of his sister and maybe I can help him work through that jealousy?
And usually I'm able to find what I can do differently that will make
the situation better. When I'm not able to make the situation
better, I just figure that I need more practice and experience at
being a peaceful parent. Or maybe they're out of balance and need a
homeopathic remedy.
But never, ever, ever will any of my children be threatened with
being taken away from their home.
Sheila
> << I can't agree with that advice. Staying home should be a right,not
>miserable
> a privilage. I wouldn't threaten my kids with being sent away from
>
> to go to school (the thought would terrify them!) anymore than I
>
> would threaten to send them away to a boarding school or convent.
>>
>
> If one of mine seemed determined to make the lives of the others
> despite my advice and requests and pleadings, I would threaten toboarding
> school or convent before I would allow the other children's livesto be made
> miserable.which have
>
> The piece of advice you criticized came after many other things
> worked with my kids.own homes.
>
> If nothing works, why should home be "a right"?
>
> Children have the right to have as much peace as possible in their
> I don't see that anyone has the right to torment others.
>
> Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 10:17:59 PM, sheran@... writes:
<< They refuse to play, because each child knows that there is a very
real possiblity that he might be the loser. >>
If they do it enough, they'll also figure out that they have an equally good
chance of being a winner.
As you're playing now, there's a loser, only they're blaming you for your
choices.
If you take yourself out as arbiter or judge and let it be random, they can
still be frustrated, but they won't be resentful of you (maybe).
<<I think the problem is that no one wants to be the last one up. >>
If you glorify last one up, and make it more valuable, the other problem will
lessen.
Sandra
<< They refuse to play, because each child knows that there is a very
real possiblity that he might be the loser. >>
If they do it enough, they'll also figure out that they have an equally good
chance of being a winner.
As you're playing now, there's a loser, only they're blaming you for your
choices.
If you take yourself out as arbiter or judge and let it be random, they can
still be frustrated, but they won't be resentful of you (maybe).
<<I think the problem is that no one wants to be the last one up. >>
If you glorify last one up, and make it more valuable, the other problem will
lessen.
Sandra
Mary
Well I'm not in a small house but we can still run into similar situations here. Tara has her own room, Joseph does and Sierra and Alyssa share. If Sierra wants to be alone, I'll try and keep Alyssa occupied or even Joseph will play with her in the playroom. Then with Tara gone most of the time, I can always send someone in there too to watch tv or a movie that no one else wants to see. Then we have the living room. What about setting up a place in your bedroom when one needs alone time? Kids just need a small spot and the chance to shut the door.
As far as more one on one time with older ones, what about having someone in to play with one or two of them while you attend to the others? Or a relative taking one out for awhile so you have some time.
Sierra and Alyssa usually like to go with me when I go out. Target, Petsmart or even Publix. (grocery store) Joseph doesn't like to so I make a point of going somewhere he likes with just him. I try real hard to make times to go out with each child, just me and them. It makes the home time less stressed when they all want me. They each feel like they get their time. I've made 3 separate trips to Target in one week buying each child new shoes. It was just for shoes and of course they spent some time in the toy aisle But it was just me and one child and that was very special for them.
If anyone here is doing something annoying to another, it depends on the circumstances as to who should stay or not. One cannot go into someone else's room and be annoying. If they are in the playroom and they alone are bothering everyone else, they are asked to take it in their own room. If they are in the living room or dining room or kitchen, then the annoyed ones get to go to the playroom or their own rooms. Then there' s always outside. They are never asked to stop, just take it elsewhere.
As far as outtings go, I haven't run into this much as a problem. Once in awhile, one will want to leave. I'll ask them to just be patient for awhile as the others are having fun and it's not fair for them to have to leave. Usually I can get the frustrated one all happy again and they change their mind. Just happened today at the park. We were there from 12-5:00. Joseph got a bit annoyed at his sister around 3:00 and said he wanted to go. I took him aside, wiped him down from the dirt and sweat, got him something to drink and just talked about why he was upset and then about nothing to do with that. He changed his mind and happily stayed until I needed to go at 5:00.
Excusing yourself from the conversation could have let him know how important his dilemma was to you. Taking some time to calm him down first, then talk might have made a difference. Children for the most part are easy to get involved with something else once they know you are really into what they are feeling. Sometimes just knowing you understand makes all the difference.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
As far as more one on one time with older ones, what about having someone in to play with one or two of them while you attend to the others? Or a relative taking one out for awhile so you have some time.
Sierra and Alyssa usually like to go with me when I go out. Target, Petsmart or even Publix. (grocery store) Joseph doesn't like to so I make a point of going somewhere he likes with just him. I try real hard to make times to go out with each child, just me and them. It makes the home time less stressed when they all want me. They each feel like they get their time. I've made 3 separate trips to Target in one week buying each child new shoes. It was just for shoes and of course they spent some time in the toy aisle But it was just me and one child and that was very special for them.
If anyone here is doing something annoying to another, it depends on the circumstances as to who should stay or not. One cannot go into someone else's room and be annoying. If they are in the playroom and they alone are bothering everyone else, they are asked to take it in their own room. If they are in the living room or dining room or kitchen, then the annoyed ones get to go to the playroom or their own rooms. Then there' s always outside. They are never asked to stop, just take it elsewhere.
As far as outtings go, I haven't run into this much as a problem. Once in awhile, one will want to leave. I'll ask them to just be patient for awhile as the others are having fun and it's not fair for them to have to leave. Usually I can get the frustrated one all happy again and they change their mind. Just happened today at the park. We were there from 12-5:00. Joseph got a bit annoyed at his sister around 3:00 and said he wanted to go. I took him aside, wiped him down from the dirt and sweat, got him something to drink and just talked about why he was upset and then about nothing to do with that. He changed his mind and happily stayed until I needed to go at 5:00.
Excusing yourself from the conversation could have let him know how important his dilemma was to you. Taking some time to calm him down first, then talk might have made a difference. Children for the most part are easy to get involved with something else once they know you are really into what they are feeling. Sometimes just knowing you understand makes all the difference.
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: <SandraDodd@...>
<<With video games, it was someone's turn. If it was Kirby's turn and he
was
letting Marty play with him, he could call the shots. If it was Marty's
turn, he could choose the controller, choose the chair, choose to play alone
or with Kirby, but it was Marty's time. When he chose to stop, Holly was
up.
Her turn might be short or long or passed. Then it was Kirby's.>>
Turns work here too. Usually with less exciting stuff, like who gets to feed
the tadpoles or fish that day! I never have them argue over computer or
video games. Go figure. So far the seating in the van is pretty easy too.
Joseph usually prefers to sit in the back which gives Sierra the choice of
sitting next to Alyssa or in back with Joseph. Once in awhile Alyssa will
ask Joseph to sit next to her and Sierra gladly gives up her seat. A lot of
things are just who asks first. Then if the other wants to do it too, they
get it first next time.
The kids have tried the paper rock scissors thing and it doesn't work for
them. They aren't decisive enough yet. One usually puts theirs out first
which lets the other change their mind or they both try to second guess the
other. It leads to more problems. We use a coin toss on the few occasions
where we need a decision. Like if both kids want to use the same shower and
go at the same time. Next time around the unlucky one gets to choose.
Mary B
<<With video games, it was someone's turn. If it was Kirby's turn and he
was
letting Marty play with him, he could call the shots. If it was Marty's
turn, he could choose the controller, choose the chair, choose to play alone
or with Kirby, but it was Marty's time. When he chose to stop, Holly was
up.
Her turn might be short or long or passed. Then it was Kirby's.>>
Turns work here too. Usually with less exciting stuff, like who gets to feed
the tadpoles or fish that day! I never have them argue over computer or
video games. Go figure. So far the seating in the van is pretty easy too.
Joseph usually prefers to sit in the back which gives Sierra the choice of
sitting next to Alyssa or in back with Joseph. Once in awhile Alyssa will
ask Joseph to sit next to her and Sierra gladly gives up her seat. A lot of
things are just who asks first. Then if the other wants to do it too, they
get it first next time.
The kids have tried the paper rock scissors thing and it doesn't work for
them. They aren't decisive enough yet. One usually puts theirs out first
which lets the other change their mind or they both try to second guess the
other. It leads to more problems. We use a coin toss on the few occasions
where we need a decision. Like if both kids want to use the same shower and
go at the same time. Next time around the unlucky one gets to choose.
Mary B
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/3/2003 12:56:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
sent away from the only home he's ever known by an exhasperated, over tired
father you will KNOW that is NEVER the answer.
There is NEVER a just reason to give up on a child, whether the child is 8
months, 8 years or 18 years, in my opinion.
We raised them in safe secure loving homes and they need to know that no
matter what THIS is their "soft place to fall".
It's a LOT of work raising children, a LOT of work, it's sometimes even
lifelong work, my DH didn't get it, he says he does now, he BETTER get it
now.
It's the easy way out to just remove the child from the situation, that way
you are no longer responsible for the problem. It's much harder to try to
get the child to let you kow what the REAL problem is and to help you find a
solution to make the home a more peaceful place.
Every child is different, different things work for different children, they
respond quite differently to almost everthing, so a lot of parenting is trial
and error but the answer is somewhere in your heart.
It's hard when one child finds pleasure in tormenting another one but really
don't we all have to learn to get along with people who do things that
irritate us? So one child sings, loudly, maybe even badly, that child is
sharing the joy of their heart. Maybe the child who is irritated wishes
he/she were that joyful and beomes sullen and irritated by the joy coming
from said child.
Of course you know your own child best, but I'm still learning what works
with each of my children and they are not babies to anyone but me anymore.
An example is I've always been loud, I sometimes (too often) had a short
temper when the children were all little, a loud voice would immediately stop
an unwanted behaviour in my older two children, my third seemed oblivious and
my fourth would immediately break into tears. I had to consciously try to
hold back and change the way I responded to things.
I only found out maybe a year or two ago that when my third child (who is
most like me and will blow a gasket in a second and rant for ever it seems)
did something very unpleasant the best way to speak to him to get him to
listen is in a very soft almost wisper almost baby talk, he listens without
yelling or defending or throwing a fit. Something that I had consciously
tried to always use in childhood, I should have been more cognizant of during
his teen years.
There are so many things that HAVE to be done before considering giving the
child the directive to leave the house. Such a threat will fall on deaf ears
anyway. Nothing changed with my child because he was threatened with leaving
the home, nor did it change when he was put outside the door without a key in
the middle of winter.
The fact that my son even wanted to come back to a place that was so cruel to
him is a mystery to me but I'm thankful for it nevertheless.
TALKING is what made the difference, quiet reflective talking, well that and
the tears I think, tears have such a cleansing effect on the soul sometimes
and children don't like to see their parents cry. They can tune out the
yelling and the ugly voices, but crying... they know they hurt you and they
don't want to do that at all.
Best of luck to you, I remember days when I was totally exhasperated by a
child's behaviour and couldn't even think of what to do next about it.
I LONG for the days of being over tired and sticky hands and singing off key
to irritate one's siblings... too soon those voices will be dimmed and then
finally hushed by the adults they are destined to be and you too will long
for the days the swings were in full swing and the bickering sounds of your
precious babies was loud in the air.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> If one of mine seemed determined to make the lives of the othersWhen you've looked into the face of a newly turned 18 year old that is being
> miserable
> >despite my advice and requests and pleadings, I would threaten to
> boarding
> >school or convent before I would allow the other children's lives
> to be made
> >miserable.
> >
> >The piece of advice you criticized came after many other things
> which have
> >worked with my kids.
> >
> >If nothing works, why should home be "a right"?
> >
> >Children have the right to have as much peace as possible in their
> own homes.
> > I don't see that anyone has the right to torment others.
> >
> >Sandra
>
>
sent away from the only home he's ever known by an exhasperated, over tired
father you will KNOW that is NEVER the answer.
There is NEVER a just reason to give up on a child, whether the child is 8
months, 8 years or 18 years, in my opinion.
We raised them in safe secure loving homes and they need to know that no
matter what THIS is their "soft place to fall".
It's a LOT of work raising children, a LOT of work, it's sometimes even
lifelong work, my DH didn't get it, he says he does now, he BETTER get it
now.
It's the easy way out to just remove the child from the situation, that way
you are no longer responsible for the problem. It's much harder to try to
get the child to let you kow what the REAL problem is and to help you find a
solution to make the home a more peaceful place.
Every child is different, different things work for different children, they
respond quite differently to almost everthing, so a lot of parenting is trial
and error but the answer is somewhere in your heart.
It's hard when one child finds pleasure in tormenting another one but really
don't we all have to learn to get along with people who do things that
irritate us? So one child sings, loudly, maybe even badly, that child is
sharing the joy of their heart. Maybe the child who is irritated wishes
he/she were that joyful and beomes sullen and irritated by the joy coming
from said child.
Of course you know your own child best, but I'm still learning what works
with each of my children and they are not babies to anyone but me anymore.
An example is I've always been loud, I sometimes (too often) had a short
temper when the children were all little, a loud voice would immediately stop
an unwanted behaviour in my older two children, my third seemed oblivious and
my fourth would immediately break into tears. I had to consciously try to
hold back and change the way I responded to things.
I only found out maybe a year or two ago that when my third child (who is
most like me and will blow a gasket in a second and rant for ever it seems)
did something very unpleasant the best way to speak to him to get him to
listen is in a very soft almost wisper almost baby talk, he listens without
yelling or defending or throwing a fit. Something that I had consciously
tried to always use in childhood, I should have been more cognizant of during
his teen years.
There are so many things that HAVE to be done before considering giving the
child the directive to leave the house. Such a threat will fall on deaf ears
anyway. Nothing changed with my child because he was threatened with leaving
the home, nor did it change when he was put outside the door without a key in
the middle of winter.
The fact that my son even wanted to come back to a place that was so cruel to
him is a mystery to me but I'm thankful for it nevertheless.
TALKING is what made the difference, quiet reflective talking, well that and
the tears I think, tears have such a cleansing effect on the soul sometimes
and children don't like to see their parents cry. They can tune out the
yelling and the ugly voices, but crying... they know they hurt you and they
don't want to do that at all.
Best of luck to you, I remember days when I was totally exhasperated by a
child's behaviour and couldn't even think of what to do next about it.
I LONG for the days of being over tired and sticky hands and singing off key
to irritate one's siblings... too soon those voices will be dimmed and then
finally hushed by the adults they are destined to be and you too will long
for the days the swings were in full swing and the bickering sounds of your
precious babies was loud in the air.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/2003 10:58:07 PM Eastern Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
particular struggles is that they are IT. These two or four or six people
seated in front of you are the ONLY people that will be left in this world
one day that KNOW all of each others stories, their history, where they came
from and how they got where they are.
My older children just the other day reminded me how I used to tell them all
the time, make your brothers/sisters your best friend, you are going to need
them throughout your life.
Maybe they came to rely on each other too much but I get great joy out of
seeing my two that are grown and on their own invite the younger two over for
a sleep over and many times call the other sibling to sleep over as well.
Recently we were all in Mrytle Beach for the youngest child's National Cheer
competition. I didn't find it odd that I needed a three bedroom condo when
the daughter was at a different hotel with her squad. I had so many comments
about how my grown children took four days off work to ALL be there to
support Cait when in reality we hardly got to see her except for her two
minutes thirty seconds, twice on stage. Sometimes it takes strangers to
point out something we don't see, that siblings can grow up to love each
other and support each other and really LIKE each other.
Some days when they are bickering and being particularly nasty to each other,
it's hard to imagine I know.
One person's advice about removing yourself from the situation WORKS. When I
had four in PS it was ALWAYS a morning battle, one morning out of
exasperation, I went to my room and shut the door, when they banged on it and
continued fighting I didn't answer them or try to help solve the problems.
Suddenly it got quiet and they conentrated on getting ready for school.
After that, each child got their own alarm clock and each child got
themselves up for school ( sometimes I still had to wake a sleepy child THEN
retreat to my room) once THEY were responsible for getting along and it
wasn't MY problem that they didn't , they figured out a way to solve it.
Maybe instead of the child who is irritated running to mom asking her to
"fix" the offending sibling, explain that it is up to that child to work with
said sibling to find a compromise they can reach. I bet it isn't worth their
trying to figure out a solution most times and they will just ignore it and
said child will get no pleasure out of being ignored and mommy will have more
peace. Maybe it's just YOUR time they are wanting, which is most likely true
and it's hard to figure out how to do that.
My children all had special interests and when they no longer went to school
it made it so much easier to persue. I took one child (the child who NEVER
wanted to leave the house) to FL alone once, we flew down, rented a car and
spent seven days at Nasa, no Disney, no crowds, just exploring what he was
interested in. You could do that on a smaller scale right here at home by
hiring a sitter while the one child has a special day. My younger child
loved to fish, I frequently packed lunches and we went to the lake but I
learned that he wanted HIS special time to be alone, just the two of us at
the lake, we did that too. One child was amused by simple "doing" lunch and
shopping at the mall without another child whinning to go home. Yet another
child was very hard to please and find an interest, even though she did many
things nothing seemed like enough for her and it was always hard. Now it's
like she is an only child and there are days when she tells the other kids to
go home to their own houses, the house is too noisy for her, they mostly just
laugh at her and tell her to go to her room, but parenting goes on, probably
even from the grave.
The one thing I wish I had learned to do earlier was savor every single
minute of my childrens childhood, even the hard times, the times you feel you
just can't do it, because they are over so very soon, instead of feeling
frustrated, I wish I would have looked at things differently so much sooner.
I so often wish I had come to homeschooling when they were babies instead of
later in their lives so I could have had that much more time with them.
I have to thank you for the wonderful (and some not so wonderful) memories
this thread has helped me relive and to apologize for my lengthy rambling
responses. I just wish I could find the words to help you understand that
THIS is childhood, the perfect household days happen, but not every day, so
try to find the joy in the little things and don't let this control your
days. Even though it's so very hard I know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> The moments when all three kids want to do the sameOne thing that must be made very clear to siblings and reinforced at times of
> thing, or one can keep himself occupied while I do something with
> another are precious, but they certainly don't happen all the time!
> I often have three kids pulling me in three different directions.
> I've found that there is often a creative solution if you're willing
> to really apply yourself but not always. Or sometimes I'm just too
> tired to think clearly enough to come up with a creative solution.
>
particular struggles is that they are IT. These two or four or six people
seated in front of you are the ONLY people that will be left in this world
one day that KNOW all of each others stories, their history, where they came
from and how they got where they are.
My older children just the other day reminded me how I used to tell them all
the time, make your brothers/sisters your best friend, you are going to need
them throughout your life.
Maybe they came to rely on each other too much but I get great joy out of
seeing my two that are grown and on their own invite the younger two over for
a sleep over and many times call the other sibling to sleep over as well.
Recently we were all in Mrytle Beach for the youngest child's National Cheer
competition. I didn't find it odd that I needed a three bedroom condo when
the daughter was at a different hotel with her squad. I had so many comments
about how my grown children took four days off work to ALL be there to
support Cait when in reality we hardly got to see her except for her two
minutes thirty seconds, twice on stage. Sometimes it takes strangers to
point out something we don't see, that siblings can grow up to love each
other and support each other and really LIKE each other.
Some days when they are bickering and being particularly nasty to each other,
it's hard to imagine I know.
One person's advice about removing yourself from the situation WORKS. When I
had four in PS it was ALWAYS a morning battle, one morning out of
exasperation, I went to my room and shut the door, when they banged on it and
continued fighting I didn't answer them or try to help solve the problems.
Suddenly it got quiet and they conentrated on getting ready for school.
After that, each child got their own alarm clock and each child got
themselves up for school ( sometimes I still had to wake a sleepy child THEN
retreat to my room) once THEY were responsible for getting along and it
wasn't MY problem that they didn't , they figured out a way to solve it.
Maybe instead of the child who is irritated running to mom asking her to
"fix" the offending sibling, explain that it is up to that child to work with
said sibling to find a compromise they can reach. I bet it isn't worth their
trying to figure out a solution most times and they will just ignore it and
said child will get no pleasure out of being ignored and mommy will have more
peace. Maybe it's just YOUR time they are wanting, which is most likely true
and it's hard to figure out how to do that.
My children all had special interests and when they no longer went to school
it made it so much easier to persue. I took one child (the child who NEVER
wanted to leave the house) to FL alone once, we flew down, rented a car and
spent seven days at Nasa, no Disney, no crowds, just exploring what he was
interested in. You could do that on a smaller scale right here at home by
hiring a sitter while the one child has a special day. My younger child
loved to fish, I frequently packed lunches and we went to the lake but I
learned that he wanted HIS special time to be alone, just the two of us at
the lake, we did that too. One child was amused by simple "doing" lunch and
shopping at the mall without another child whinning to go home. Yet another
child was very hard to please and find an interest, even though she did many
things nothing seemed like enough for her and it was always hard. Now it's
like she is an only child and there are days when she tells the other kids to
go home to their own houses, the house is too noisy for her, they mostly just
laugh at her and tell her to go to her room, but parenting goes on, probably
even from the grave.
The one thing I wish I had learned to do earlier was savor every single
minute of my childrens childhood, even the hard times, the times you feel you
just can't do it, because they are over so very soon, instead of feeling
frustrated, I wish I would have looked at things differently so much sooner.
I so often wish I had come to homeschooling when they were babies instead of
later in their lives so I could have had that much more time with them.
I have to thank you for the wonderful (and some not so wonderful) memories
this thread has helped me relive and to apologize for my lengthy rambling
responses. I just wish I could find the words to help you understand that
THIS is childhood, the perfect household days happen, but not every day, so
try to find the joy in the little things and don't let this control your
days. Even though it's so very hard I know.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
averyschmidt
>>>I wouldn't threaten my kids with being sent away fromthan
>>>> to go to school (the thought would terrify them!) anymore
>>>>I would threaten to send them away to a boarding school orconvent. >>
> If one of mine seemed determined to make the lives of the othersmiserable
> despite my advice and requests and pleadings, I would threaten toboarding
> school or convent before I would allow the other children's livesto be made
> miserable.I think the difference with me or their father "threatening" school
is that my kids are *not* terrified of it. The possibility of one
of them trying it has actually come up in nonstressful
conversations, especially with my oldest. We've talked about how
he'd get some space from his little brothers, make some new friends,
etc (they share their homeschooled friends and their neighbor
friends, so it's not even like they have personal space in the
friend department right now).
So the idea of school as a solution is only "mean" or "terrifying"
depending on the child and the context. For some children it could
be, or has been, a workable solution to too much togetherness,
especially if there are other reasons for going as well.
Anyway, what they both usually say to the idea of school is that
they want the *other* one to go so *they* have the house to
themselves. :-/
Ironically, when one of them does have the opportunity to be
somewhere else for a good chunk of time the others pester me about
when he will be coming home. I think "oh! They miss each other!"
but then when they are reunited the teasing and problems start right
up again. It's almost like they prefer being together in their
struggles to being apart.
<sigh>
Anyway, thanks for the helpful input eveyone.
Mabye today will be one of their getting-along-great days and I can
get a fresh perspective.
Patti
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 10:37:23 PM, sheran@... writes:
-=-When my kids have a behavior problem that seems impossible, the first
thing I do lately is tell myself that maybe my mindful parenting
isn't quite mindful enough. Did I spend enough time that day with
that child, doing something that is important to him? Is he jealous
of his sister and maybe I can help him work through that jealousy?
And usually I'm able to find what I can do differently that will make
the situation better. When I'm not able to make the situation
better, I just figure that I need more practice and experience at
being a peaceful parent. Or maybe they're out of balance and need a
homeopathic remedy. -=-
All true and right.
And if we make all the most peaceful recommendations to someone who assures
us that none of that will work, and they really ARE sure none of that will
work, then what?
-=-But never, ever, ever will any of my children be threatened with
being taken away from their home. -=-
None are acting like your brother, though, and you're not being your mom or
dad.
School was better for me than home. I had a cousin who was violent (and was
sexually abusing my sister, but I didn't know until years later). My parents
had brought this cousin and another to live with us as permanent foster
children. There they were. I would have been safer and happier leaving, had
we homeschooled, than being with that cousin all the time. "My home" became
my cousin's home.
Not all people can and will get along even in ideal circumstances, even if
they're siblings. What if they aren't? Not all parents can and will have
the patience to hang in there.
Rubyprincess has kids who loved each other. She recommends leaving the
situation.
When my parents left the situation, my sister was sexually abused. I was
physically pummelled once, and I just rolled up until the cousin quit. Her
life had been awful, indeed, but now my life was becoming awful because of
her being in my home.
There are lots of possible factors.
Sandra
-=-When my kids have a behavior problem that seems impossible, the first
thing I do lately is tell myself that maybe my mindful parenting
isn't quite mindful enough. Did I spend enough time that day with
that child, doing something that is important to him? Is he jealous
of his sister and maybe I can help him work through that jealousy?
And usually I'm able to find what I can do differently that will make
the situation better. When I'm not able to make the situation
better, I just figure that I need more practice and experience at
being a peaceful parent. Or maybe they're out of balance and need a
homeopathic remedy. -=-
All true and right.
And if we make all the most peaceful recommendations to someone who assures
us that none of that will work, and they really ARE sure none of that will
work, then what?
-=-But never, ever, ever will any of my children be threatened with
being taken away from their home. -=-
None are acting like your brother, though, and you're not being your mom or
dad.
School was better for me than home. I had a cousin who was violent (and was
sexually abusing my sister, but I didn't know until years later). My parents
had brought this cousin and another to live with us as permanent foster
children. There they were. I would have been safer and happier leaving, had
we homeschooled, than being with that cousin all the time. "My home" became
my cousin's home.
Not all people can and will get along even in ideal circumstances, even if
they're siblings. What if they aren't? Not all parents can and will have
the patience to hang in there.
Rubyprincess has kids who loved each other. She recommends leaving the
situation.
When my parents left the situation, my sister was sexually abused. I was
physically pummelled once, and I just rolled up until the cousin quit. Her
life had been awful, indeed, but now my life was becoming awful because of
her being in my home.
There are lots of possible factors.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/3/2003 9:55:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
talking about our OWN children, not those who come into the home nearly grown
and with their own baggage.
I would never just leave me children to fend off hatefulness, physical injury
or heaven forbid sexual abuse from someone that I BROUGHT into my home.
We have to be MINDFUL of everyone that comes in contact with our children.
All rules are off, all bets are cancelled when someone outside the home comes
into it and damages others. Children that have grown and been nourished in
the same home as each other are different to each other. THEY can say or do
things to their siblings but let an OUTSIDER even THINK about it and life
will not be good for said outsider. They really love each other on some level
but as kids sometimes they think it's THEIR job to keep mommy occupied and
feeling useful at solving lifes problems for them.
In no way would I EVER advocate walking away and allowing a relationship such
as the one described above to continue with my children. I hope I would
recognize the hardships said child had BEFORE coming to my home, try to give
them as much love and compassion as possible but be VERY clear about the
rules for living in my home with MY children. If the child had a very rough
life and was being shown lots of love and compassion, hopefully the child
would be very grateful and loving back, I'm sure that is not always the case.
Oh and for the record, on any given day, my children have been known to shout
at each other, say they don't like each other, and even threaten bodily harm,
but in the end, they would defend each other to the death.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Rubyprincess has kids who loved each other. She recommends leaving theI agree there are LOTS of possible factors but I thought basically we were
> situation.
> When my parents left the situation, my sister was sexually abused. I was
> physically pummelled once, and I just rolled up until the cousin quit. Her
>
> life had been awful, indeed, but now my life was becoming awful because of
> her being in my home.
>
> There are lots of possible factors.
>
talking about our OWN children, not those who come into the home nearly grown
and with their own baggage.
I would never just leave me children to fend off hatefulness, physical injury
or heaven forbid sexual abuse from someone that I BROUGHT into my home.
We have to be MINDFUL of everyone that comes in contact with our children.
All rules are off, all bets are cancelled when someone outside the home comes
into it and damages others. Children that have grown and been nourished in
the same home as each other are different to each other. THEY can say or do
things to their siblings but let an OUTSIDER even THINK about it and life
will not be good for said outsider. They really love each other on some level
but as kids sometimes they think it's THEIR job to keep mommy occupied and
feeling useful at solving lifes problems for them.
In no way would I EVER advocate walking away and allowing a relationship such
as the one described above to continue with my children. I hope I would
recognize the hardships said child had BEFORE coming to my home, try to give
them as much love and compassion as possible but be VERY clear about the
rules for living in my home with MY children. If the child had a very rough
life and was being shown lots of love and compassion, hopefully the child
would be very grateful and loving back, I'm sure that is not always the case.
Oh and for the record, on any given day, my children have been known to shout
at each other, say they don't like each other, and even threaten bodily harm,
but in the end, they would defend each other to the death.
glena
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/2/03 11:30:53 PM, mummy124@... writes:
<< If anyone here is doing something annoying to another, it depends on the
circumstances as to who should stay or not. One cannot go into someone else's
room and be annoying. If they are in the playroom and they alone are
bothering everyone else, they are asked to take it in their own room. >>
We have a comedy bit about this here. To break the tension when someone's
being really annoying, I've said "Wait until you have your own place. Then
invite Kirby over, and when he gets there, say this stuff to him. Then I
can't tell you to stop it. It will be your house! But here, you need to
stop."
Or "If you want to hit him, wait until you're 18 so it's not my
responsibility. When you're 18, invite him to your apartment and hit him all
you want to! I'm not sure he'll want to visit you then, if you keep acting
like this, though."
Sometimes I just say "FIRST, rent your own apartment..." and that's enough.
It gets them all smiling and commenting on that fantasy future time. It
makes it silly, while still treating it as real and making the point that
it's not okay to do it where the house is shared.
Sandra
<< If anyone here is doing something annoying to another, it depends on the
circumstances as to who should stay or not. One cannot go into someone else's
room and be annoying. If they are in the playroom and they alone are
bothering everyone else, they are asked to take it in their own room. >>
We have a comedy bit about this here. To break the tension when someone's
being really annoying, I've said "Wait until you have your own place. Then
invite Kirby over, and when he gets there, say this stuff to him. Then I
can't tell you to stop it. It will be your house! But here, you need to
stop."
Or "If you want to hit him, wait until you're 18 so it's not my
responsibility. When you're 18, invite him to your apartment and hit him all
you want to! I'm not sure he'll want to visit you then, if you keep acting
like this, though."
Sometimes I just say "FIRST, rent your own apartment..." and that's enough.
It gets them all smiling and commenting on that fantasy future time. It
makes it silly, while still treating it as real and making the point that
it's not okay to do it where the house is shared.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/3/03 6:26:37 AM, rubyprincesstsg@... writes:
<< It's hard when one child finds pleasure in tormenting another one but
really
don't we all have to learn to get along with people who do things that
irritate us? >>
That's the justification school gives when kids aren't given the right to get
away from other kids or teachers who are tormenting them (or irritating, but
after some amount of time irritation can be torment).
I absolutely think trying different rearrangements of people and different
ways of taking turns and different ways of helping children understand is the
way to go. It's the way we've gone. Getting a bigger house helped. The
kids just getting older and more patient and more understanding helped.
I don't think school is the hell hole some people here do. And if a child
goes and hates it he can come home. If he goes and hates it maybe he'll even
change his behavior for the privilege of coming home. And in my mind, it's a
privilege that extremely abusive behavior could lose any of my kids. But it
wouldn't be my first (or second or third) response. It would be an ultimate
response. And if a child wanted, liked and did well in school and was there
of his own choice (a HUGE difference from other school memories many of us
have), and that provided peace and space for my other children, it might be
the most mindful solution for that group of kids.
Luckily, my kids haven't wanted school and are really pretty decent with one
another. For over a year now, Kirby has allowed and invited Marty to hang
out with him in all kinds of social situations. I never thought that would
happen. When they were mismatched, because Kirby was dexterous and Marty
wasn't, or Kirby was pubescent and Marty wasn't, or whatever, Kirby would say
"no, Marty" so much I thought Marty's heart would break. But once Marty was
well into puberty, for some reason(s) I don't really understand, Kirby
welcomed him into his group, and now there are not separate groups at all.
If someone calls to do something with one of them and he's gone, they'll take
the other. Or there will be flowing groups of kids here on Sundays, coming
and going in sub-groups, everyone just as accepting of Marty as of Kirby.
Some of this is luck. Some of it is the result of years of negotiation,
kindness, generosity, patience and understanding. I'm grateful for it,
whatever all it is.
Sandra
<< It's hard when one child finds pleasure in tormenting another one but
really
don't we all have to learn to get along with people who do things that
irritate us? >>
That's the justification school gives when kids aren't given the right to get
away from other kids or teachers who are tormenting them (or irritating, but
after some amount of time irritation can be torment).
I absolutely think trying different rearrangements of people and different
ways of taking turns and different ways of helping children understand is the
way to go. It's the way we've gone. Getting a bigger house helped. The
kids just getting older and more patient and more understanding helped.
I don't think school is the hell hole some people here do. And if a child
goes and hates it he can come home. If he goes and hates it maybe he'll even
change his behavior for the privilege of coming home. And in my mind, it's a
privilege that extremely abusive behavior could lose any of my kids. But it
wouldn't be my first (or second or third) response. It would be an ultimate
response. And if a child wanted, liked and did well in school and was there
of his own choice (a HUGE difference from other school memories many of us
have), and that provided peace and space for my other children, it might be
the most mindful solution for that group of kids.
Luckily, my kids haven't wanted school and are really pretty decent with one
another. For over a year now, Kirby has allowed and invited Marty to hang
out with him in all kinds of social situations. I never thought that would
happen. When they were mismatched, because Kirby was dexterous and Marty
wasn't, or Kirby was pubescent and Marty wasn't, or whatever, Kirby would say
"no, Marty" so much I thought Marty's heart would break. But once Marty was
well into puberty, for some reason(s) I don't really understand, Kirby
welcomed him into his group, and now there are not separate groups at all.
If someone calls to do something with one of them and he's gone, they'll take
the other. Or there will be flowing groups of kids here on Sundays, coming
and going in sub-groups, everyone just as accepting of Marty as of Kirby.
Some of this is luck. Some of it is the result of years of negotiation,
kindness, generosity, patience and understanding. I'm grateful for it,
whatever all it is.
Sandra
nellebelle
Then why is anyone saying it?
Mary Ellen
----- snip----- We've had cycles like this before,
Mary Ellen
----- snip----- We've had cycles like this before,
> and unfortunately the kids now see "things HAVE to change if you
> want to stay home" as a totally empty threat.
kayb85
> Anyway, what they both usually say to the idea of school is thatOf course! Neither wants to be the one who is sent away. Both want
> they want the *other* one to go so *they* have the house to
> themselves. :-/
to be the one who gets to stay home and feel loved.
Sheila
Karin
>Whenever we want to do something "fair" between my two boys, we either flip
> In a message dated 4/2/03 8:41:23 PM, sheran@... writes:
>
> << My son refuses to do rock-scissors-paper because he's afraid he might
>
> lose. On rare occasions that he does agree to it, he has a major
>
> melt down when he loses.
a coin or roll a dice.
When rolling a dice - usually whoever gets a higher number wins.
This works well for us most times - my boys feel like they were treated
fairly.
Karin