Thad Martin

megates@... wrote:

> From: megates@...
>
> It seems a lot of people think a better school is more strict, "has
> higher standards". I met a mom who is very proud that her kids
> kindergarten class is so strict bc the children know what the rules
> are????

hi,

i went to a b-day party for a 4 yo recently, all the other kids there met in
daycare, we were the only homeschoolers. i found the dynamic between the
parents and kids really distant, not without love but without closeness. the
parent would stand back and say things like 'now uses your words' and the
kids would be fighting over the toys. it was odd to me (not the fighting
part:), the kids do their thing and the parents do theirs and 'never the
'twain shall meet' just bridged by a bit of vocalization. it made me think
that people keep themselves so busy so they don't have to see what's really
happening and if something bad happens they have a good excuse - they were
too busy.

i have a thing about controlling kids. boundaries are great but control is a
different story. i didn't give birth to prove to the world i can spawn the
greatest person that ever lived (though rene' (4) informed me last night that
he wants to become 'a legend' -i'm not completely convinced he clearly
understands what that is <lol>) or the most obedient or the kid with the best
manners or any other of their silly accolades. i did gave birth to
experience the joy of watching a person develop and find happiness in their
everyday life and to be of whatever assistance i am able. i believe
compassion and good manners are very helpful but only if it is done with
sincerity not coercion. this is my problem with schools.

i would be interested in how others step out of the way of their kids and not
pass on all the issue based in social conformity. from what i've seen some
of the greatest injustices perpetrated against kids is in the name of social
conformity. my son is out spoken - for the good or the bad - i make sure he
knows his voice carries weight. i also let him know when he's driving me
nuts with his incessant talking. i do not use the word 'incessant' lightly
- he will talk to anyone anytime for as long as they will sit there. i can
not even count the number of picnics of total strangers (more often than not
adult only) he has invited himself to. he just parks himself without ever
questioning whether he would be wanted, in his mind of course they would want
to hear what he has to say:)

i am not embarrassed by anything he does. at first i was tempted to feel he
was a reflection of me and i would be judged by other because of his
behavior, but you know so what. i know people judge, their thoughts are
so 'loud' you can't help but know. what i've found is, trying to control
(the use of rules) kids or anyone, sets you up for a power struggle then you
have to ask yourself 'is this really the kind of relationship i want?' and '
isn't this just what i have with my parents (or any other person trying to
have power of you)?' for me the answers are no and yes respectively. so i
accept that i'm breaking with all my 'role models' and that leaves me with
always (at least for now:) having to know why i do what i do and making
conscious choices so i don't fall back into repeating what was done to me and
i must afford this right to my kids. now that i've been able to make the
transition i feel life doesn't need to be scheduled or planned or have a
curriculum to succeed and prosper and be happy but just conscious and sincere
involvement is needed.

the other thing i wanted to touch on is that there has been a lot of
discussion about waldorf, which to be honest i only lightly touched on as far
as reading the emails. it's not a big interest of mine though they do
provide nice products albeit a bit expensive but very good quality. i
looked into becoming a waldorf teacher when i lived in northern cal. but
backed away. for me it's too structured and imposes a reality on to the
environment rather than allowing one to develop of it's own accord. i'm not
as well read on the specific differences between these philosophies because i
make mine up as i go and find i'm much happier doing it that way. it's hard
for me to conform to even the alternative methods and this is why i'm on this
list because for me unschooling is more of a philosophical base and methods
such as waldorf are more of a structure you 'live' in. just some thoughts


<<
I also know two hs families who live right next to a school. They use
the playground after school hours. >>

LOL--same here!

Marcie

not only do we live across the street for an elementary school but beside and
behind us is a daycare. funny how things happen :)

-susan

ps. someone was talking about other unschooling lists and said they missed
the philosophical topics found there. personal i would love to see those
kinds of topics grow here. so if anyone is so inclined i would join in
though i must admit i do get behind in the messages presently i've got nearly
200 just from this group to read:0

Beth Burnham

i looked into becoming a waldorf teacher when i lived in northern cal. but backed away. for me it's too structured and imposes a reality on to the environment rather than allowing one to develop of it's own accord. i'm not as well read on the specific differences between these philosophies because i make mine up as i go and find i'm much happier doing it that way. it's hard for me to conform to even the alternative methods and this is why i'm on this list because for me unschooling is more of a philosophical base and methods such as waldorf are more of a structure you 'live' in. just some thoughts

Susan I am in agreement with you too about the structure of the Waldorf way I just like to borrow from what I have appreciated about them esp. their books and art. I would have preferred to become a Waldorf teacher as opposed to a regular elem. teacher in the olden days because I would have liked to further develop that artist that I was ( I realize I still can blossom at home along side my own children) I think lots of parents have trouble out there in Waldorf land and still have to worry about the "waldorf police" who have in some cases literally gone after them! I had a bad experience looking into being a teacher at Antioch was totally dissed by the woman who ran the program and I was over the age of 35 at the time I looked into it.
I have also gone to Hampshire College a great place for nonconforming 'unschoolers" if you can afford it. I think they give scholarships nowadays. I had trouble with the drug culture that was there but hopefully those days are gone.
Tell us more about your son he sounds so vibrant and full of self esteem!
Beth