deschooling
[email protected]
Sorry I'm a couple of days behind (as usual) I promise to try to catch up. :o) Anyway, in response to this:
"Part of my relationship with my children in the past has been
"quizzing", "checking", asking them to perform. I have done my best to
put this to rest. When they ask me a question though, I am torn.
Sometimes I feel like I should just answer the question or do for them
what they have asked (for example: when they point to a word and ask
what it says). Sometimes I feel like I should be asking "well what do
you think?" or "how can we find an answer to that?" but when I ask it,
it feels like I'm almost back to "quizzing" them. "
I can understand this because I am always tempted to do the same but a long time ago someone made a point that has stuck with me. If you ask someone...what does this say? Do you want them to tell you the word is? Or do want them to say "What do you think"? Personally I'd be ticked if someone did that to me. Now...if I ask you what the word is, you tell me and THEN you show me how you sounded it out, that would be cool. I think the hardest part for us who graduated from traditional schools is the mindset that you have to make the child think for themselves. That they are lazy and will try to get other people to do all the hard work themselves. Once you start treating them as people who are eager to learn then they will start behaving that way. And yes this is easier said then done...you just have to keep reminding yourself and soon it will become a habit. :o)
~Heather
*** Free voicemail and email, by phone or Web! Free phone calls too! Get it today at http://www.myTalk.com ***
"Part of my relationship with my children in the past has been
"quizzing", "checking", asking them to perform. I have done my best to
put this to rest. When they ask me a question though, I am torn.
Sometimes I feel like I should just answer the question or do for them
what they have asked (for example: when they point to a word and ask
what it says). Sometimes I feel like I should be asking "well what do
you think?" or "how can we find an answer to that?" but when I ask it,
it feels like I'm almost back to "quizzing" them. "
I can understand this because I am always tempted to do the same but a long time ago someone made a point that has stuck with me. If you ask someone...what does this say? Do you want them to tell you the word is? Or do want them to say "What do you think"? Personally I'd be ticked if someone did that to me. Now...if I ask you what the word is, you tell me and THEN you show me how you sounded it out, that would be cool. I think the hardest part for us who graduated from traditional schools is the mindset that you have to make the child think for themselves. That they are lazy and will try to get other people to do all the hard work themselves. Once you start treating them as people who are eager to learn then they will start behaving that way. And yes this is easier said then done...you just have to keep reminding yourself and soon it will become a habit. :o)
~Heather
*** Free voicemail and email, by phone or Web! Free phone calls too! Get it today at http://www.myTalk.com ***
[email protected]
! We have two toddlers, and will soon be adopting one or
more school age girls from foster care (Our Homestudy is being considered
by numerous Case Workers) so I am in need of practical brass tacks "advice
on what exactly we should be DOING duting the day in terms of fullfilling
educational needs. These kids are coming from IS and will most likely need
to ease out of that mentality slowly. They will also need time to deschool
and heal and adjust menatlly, emotionally and psychologically to their new
home and family."
Unschoolers don't believe that there should be something you *should be doing*. Most don't believe in imposing learning on our kids. I define it as child-led learning...which means, if your child wants to daydream, work in textbooks, watch tv, take a class, go to school, create a curriculum, etc, etc, etc. Then that's what you should be doing. It helps to take them places and expose them many different things in order to try to find what may interest them. When I first took my son out of PS we didn't do anything for the first year that was even close to looking schoolish. We joined a homeschool support group and only went to the parties and play dates. We stayed away from all the classes. Stephen was so wounded from ps he wanted to stay as far away from it as possible. We did go to the Children's Museum in Indianapolis at least once a week because my son loved it. But I let him run wild and do what he wanted to do....I only read the signs to him if he asked. It is a very hands on musuem and we miss it very much. This summer he asked me to teach him to read...so I picked up "100 Easy Lessons" at the library and he seemed to enjoy that. He even wanted to practice writing the letters at the end of each lesson which really surprised me. But this is what I believe is child led learning. To me this is unschooling. And the first year where we did close to nothing was deschooling. I have to admit that right now my son would probably not test at the third grade level in reading and math. He'd probably be higher in other subjects though, especially biology. But I have no doubts that he will catch up and probably even surpass his peers. Just as I believe that if I had never put him in PS that he would be already be there. School made him take a giant step backwards and now we have to do tiny baby steps forwards. But there is plenty of time and he is definately making progress so I'm not worried. :o)
~Heather
*** Free voicemail and email, by phone or Web! Free phone calls too! Get it today at http://www.myTalk.com ***
more school age girls from foster care (Our Homestudy is being considered
by numerous Case Workers) so I am in need of practical brass tacks "advice
on what exactly we should be DOING duting the day in terms of fullfilling
educational needs. These kids are coming from IS and will most likely need
to ease out of that mentality slowly. They will also need time to deschool
and heal and adjust menatlly, emotionally and psychologically to their new
home and family."
Unschoolers don't believe that there should be something you *should be doing*. Most don't believe in imposing learning on our kids. I define it as child-led learning...which means, if your child wants to daydream, work in textbooks, watch tv, take a class, go to school, create a curriculum, etc, etc, etc. Then that's what you should be doing. It helps to take them places and expose them many different things in order to try to find what may interest them. When I first took my son out of PS we didn't do anything for the first year that was even close to looking schoolish. We joined a homeschool support group and only went to the parties and play dates. We stayed away from all the classes. Stephen was so wounded from ps he wanted to stay as far away from it as possible. We did go to the Children's Museum in Indianapolis at least once a week because my son loved it. But I let him run wild and do what he wanted to do....I only read the signs to him if he asked. It is a very hands on musuem and we miss it very much. This summer he asked me to teach him to read...so I picked up "100 Easy Lessons" at the library and he seemed to enjoy that. He even wanted to practice writing the letters at the end of each lesson which really surprised me. But this is what I believe is child led learning. To me this is unschooling. And the first year where we did close to nothing was deschooling. I have to admit that right now my son would probably not test at the third grade level in reading and math. He'd probably be higher in other subjects though, especially biology. But I have no doubts that he will catch up and probably even surpass his peers. Just as I believe that if I had never put him in PS that he would be already be there. School made him take a giant step backwards and now we have to do tiny baby steps forwards. But there is plenty of time and he is definately making progress so I'm not worried. :o)
~Heather
*** Free voicemail and email, by phone or Web! Free phone calls too! Get it today at http://www.myTalk.com ***
Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
> Will they ever learn the parts of speech if I don't teach them to >diagram sentences? Beyond multiplication and division, will they >ever learn fractions...and decimals (aside from money), to say >nothing of algebra, geometry or trigonometry?I agree with Diane. How many adults, fully functional and "well rounded" do you know who use these skills regularly that are not job related? If you need a skill for work you will know that by the time you reach the college level if you are focused on a particular career, and can pick it up in college if you still need to. Otherwise, you learn just like everyone else does, as you go, as the need presents itself.
I can't say that I can diagram a sentence right now (who wants to?) it's not something I consider fun. However, I am a very language oriented person, and am more comfortable with the written and spoken word than most people I know. I was a peer tutor and teachers aide (paid) in college for English professors. I was not diagraming sentences, but rather helping people to understand what a complete sentence were, and what the parts of sentences were (as in subject, action, conclusion, etc) and what the necessary parts of paragraphs were, and how to know when to move on to the next paragraph. I also taught when something was off topic, and how to define topics and express yourself, how to use a thesaurus and dictionary as tools to aid the writers craft, what the parts of a paper were (beginning, middle and end) and how to recognize what facts and information fit into which categories and how to smoothly transition them in. You would be amazed how very, very many people get al!
l the way through institutionalized school withouth the slightest idea how to do these things, and they are basic skills to writing anything from a letter, to business proposals, to creative writing and fiction.
If other people have to learn these things later, on their own, and they made it all the way through school, I can easily see giving my children the opportunity to learn much more than these skills without even trying. As to math...I don't know Trig., or Calculus, or much Algebra for that matter. I know I do algebra, as I can figure out missing numbers in equations and do the math in my head required to figure prices in the grocery store with sales, and coupons, and price per ounce, as well as figure distances and times for travel, etc. But I don't think I could sit down and write a formula. Not my cup of tea. But I don't know anyone who thinks me lacking or somehow deficient because of that. In fact I don't know anyone who knows all those things you named and does them regularly.
In life, you learn the skills you need and use. If the need is a false or artificial one (such as needing to learn them for a test, or to please a nervous parent) you will probably forget them. If the need is true, and the original learning in reinforced by repeated use in life, you will remember. Likewise if you HATE a subject, you will learn less and remember less about it, than about one you love and enjoy. That's how it always works, no matter how you obtain your knowledge and how you learn (unless of course you have an infallible memory, what a curse that would be!)
Just my .02
Nanci K.
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Nanci and Thomas Kuykendall
You'd be surprised at how much math can be involved in calculating a compound miter joint for a picture frame!
Nanci K.
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>Boy! Don't I know it! Sewing, decorating, craft projects, remodeling... All these things need a great deal of math computation that I never learned in school. I had to learn on my own.
>Billy
Nanci K.
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[email protected]
OK, OK, I admit it -- I AM scared! Max (sometimes referred to as Evan) was in a charter school for 1st and 2nd grades, and now he's home. I am a disorganized person in general, and even more so since Sept. 11th (probably something I need to process there). Disorganized meaning that last week I kept forgetting Max had agreed to clean his room on a certain day, and it's still not clean, the cat had to eat dog food for a day 'cause I just kept forgetting we were out, the checkbook is in horrible disarray (intuitive checking, I've heard it called), etc., etc. Actually, writing this out, all that doesn't seem like that big a deal. I think it reminds me of the years I was depressed and never had "it" together. Anyway, Max has been just kind of hanging around, looking like he'd like me to tell him what to do. He found an old book a grandparent had given him - fun with reading kind of thing where you fill in the blanks - and he was *thrilled* to be doing that. Even though he thinks like this: One of the fill-in-the-blanks was The _________ jump up high. Boys or man? He chose boys, not because of the plural "jump" but because he thought it was really silly for a grown man to be jumping. If the word had been "jumps" he still would have chosen boys, because that's the way he thinks. Then he would have looked in the back and he would have been "wrong". OK, so now that particular book is gone, but he really wants to be doing more "school"-like work, because that's what he's used to. I have read where kids who have gone to school need time to "deschool", and that I just need to be patient, let him hang out, and he'll find himself. But I'm worried that because of my disorganization, maybe I'm not providing him with a good environment for doing that. It feels neglectful. I'm NOT neglecting him, and if he came up and said "I want to go look at __________" I'd take him in a minute, but he's not really interested in anything. He does read a lot. He's almost nine. I really believe he needs time to "heal" from
his school experiences. Nothing severely traumatic happened, but hearing that what you're interested in has no value, that finishing something on time has more value than achieving your vision of it, etc., certainly left some scars. Has anyone else on the list been here? I've been trying to act to everyone around me that I believe that everything is fine, and deep down I believe it will be, but before that deep down is a lot of fear. Any other "deschoolers" out there? Thanks --
Caren
his school experiences. Nothing severely traumatic happened, but hearing that what you're interested in has no value, that finishing something on time has more value than achieving your vision of it, etc., certainly left some scars. Has anyone else on the list been here? I've been trying to act to everyone around me that I believe that everything is fine, and deep down I believe it will be, but before that deep down is a lot of fear. Any other "deschoolers" out there? Thanks --
Caren
[email protected]
Hi Caren --
It's OK! A lot of us get scared and it's OK.
The only thing I would worry about in your list is the checkbook -- don't
bounced check fees seem outrageous!!
Maybe if you and ds got out and did something fun -- the zoo or a movie or
something you just like -- that would take your mind and his off of not doing
school stuff.
I have read, also, that it takes a while to deschool -- a month or more for
each year the child was in school. And I would say that's a minimum.
And otoh, you're not "deschooling" to relax into a school-at-home setup
either. To completely relax into unschooling, it may take even longer.
I'll let you know when I stop worrying -- it's only been a couple of years!
Maybe when they have kids of their own, I'll stop worrying! :)
But it gets to be less of an obstacle as you go along. Really.
Hugs to your ds -- and to you!
Nance
In a message dated 10/09/2001 10:48:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, carenkh@...
writes:
It's OK! A lot of us get scared and it's OK.
The only thing I would worry about in your list is the checkbook -- don't
bounced check fees seem outrageous!!
Maybe if you and ds got out and did something fun -- the zoo or a movie or
something you just like -- that would take your mind and his off of not doing
school stuff.
I have read, also, that it takes a while to deschool -- a month or more for
each year the child was in school. And I would say that's a minimum.
And otoh, you're not "deschooling" to relax into a school-at-home setup
either. To completely relax into unschooling, it may take even longer.
I'll let you know when I stop worrying -- it's only been a couple of years!
Maybe when they have kids of their own, I'll stop worrying! :)
But it gets to be less of an obstacle as you go along. Really.
Hugs to your ds -- and to you!
Nance
In a message dated 10/09/2001 10:48:36 AM !!!First Boot!!!, carenkh@...
writes:
> OK, OK, I admit it -- I AM scared! Max (sometimes referred to as Evan) was[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> in a charter school for 1st and 2nd grades, and now he's home. I am a
> disorganized person in general, and even more so since Sept. 11th (probably
> something I need to process there). Disorganized meaning that last week I
> kept forgetting Max had agreed to clean his room on a certain day, and it's
> still not clean, the cat had to eat dog food for a day 'cause I just kept
> forgetting we were out, the checkbook is in horrible disarray (intuitive
> checking, I've heard it called), etc., etc. Actually, writing this out,
> all that doesn't seem like that big a deal.
[email protected]
<< if he came up and said "I want to go look at __________" I'd take him in a
minute, but he's not really interested in anything >>
If he comes up to you at a museum or a historic site or in the mall you mean?
Because leaving him at the house hoping he'll ask to go to a battlefield or
archeological museum won't work as well as taking him those places and
wandering around there and having other places and ideas come up.
It will get easier, and what will help is not picking at it--not looking,
continuously, for evidence of schoolwork or formal learning.
But getting out is my best recommendation. Second-best recommendation is
videos and new/different music. Break up static patterns with new input.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
minute, but he's not really interested in anything >>
If he comes up to you at a museum or a historic site or in the mall you mean?
Because leaving him at the house hoping he'll ask to go to a battlefield or
archeological museum won't work as well as taking him those places and
wandering around there and having other places and ideas come up.
It will get easier, and what will help is not picking at it--not looking,
continuously, for evidence of schoolwork or formal learning.
But getting out is my best recommendation. Second-best recommendation is
videos and new/different music. Break up static patterns with new input.
Sandra
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
[email protected]
Nance,
By the time my kids deschool from their years in public school and
their years spent in my homeschool, they'll be ready to move out!!
LOL!!
Imo
By the time my kids deschool from their years in public school and
their years spent in my homeschool, they'll be ready to move out!!
LOL!!
Imo
julie m
Hi Caren,
I have been unschooling since January this year.
Daniel will be 8 in December. It took nearly 6 months
to get the aggression and aggro out of his system.
Daniel reads heaps, at first I was scared that reading
Asterix and animorphs would stunt his growth, but now,
I don't really have a care in the world. I probably
would encourage the fill-in-the blanks if that is what
he wants to do, but I would make up your own. I got a
note book, a book on the solar system and filled up
the notebook with facts and blanks for Daniel to
do..... Well with Daniel, it went wonky, he wont pick
up a pencil now, so he found the facts and I wrote the
answers in. Never mind, at least he was doing what I
wanted even if it didn't include writing. Daniel
spends alot of his day reading and playing with his
lego and occasionally k'nex and other building stuff.
Don't worry, as I said to my mother the other day, it
is only once a child leaves school and goes into
advanced learning situations that they learn the
information to get the skilled jobs they want,
otherwise they only need the 'basic' three R's and
loads of positive life experiences.
A good book I am reading quite unrelated to
homeschooling but still relevant is
"Great lies we live by" by Stephanie Burns
ISBN 0 646 13817 0
It is well worth the read, and could help you with the
deschooling process, and also good for future guiding.
Keep up the good work, and try not to fret about
things you are unable to influence.
Julz
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
I have been unschooling since January this year.
Daniel will be 8 in December. It took nearly 6 months
to get the aggression and aggro out of his system.
Daniel reads heaps, at first I was scared that reading
Asterix and animorphs would stunt his growth, but now,
I don't really have a care in the world. I probably
would encourage the fill-in-the blanks if that is what
he wants to do, but I would make up your own. I got a
note book, a book on the solar system and filled up
the notebook with facts and blanks for Daniel to
do..... Well with Daniel, it went wonky, he wont pick
up a pencil now, so he found the facts and I wrote the
answers in. Never mind, at least he was doing what I
wanted even if it didn't include writing. Daniel
spends alot of his day reading and playing with his
lego and occasionally k'nex and other building stuff.
Don't worry, as I said to my mother the other day, it
is only once a child leaves school and goes into
advanced learning situations that they learn the
information to get the skilled jobs they want,
otherwise they only need the 'basic' three R's and
loads of positive life experiences.
A good book I am reading quite unrelated to
homeschooling but still relevant is
"Great lies we live by" by Stephanie Burns
ISBN 0 646 13817 0
It is well worth the read, and could help you with the
deschooling process, and also good for future guiding.
Keep up the good work, and try not to fret about
things you are unable to influence.
Julz
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com
[email protected]
In a message dated 10/9/01 8:13:56 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
damenz@... writes:
there are things over my head.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
damenz@... writes:
> at first I was scared that readingYou have to know quite a bit to get the jokes in Asterix comics. I know
> Asterix and animorphs would stunt his growth, but now,
>
there are things over my head.
Sandra
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Teri Loftis
--
On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:41:31
I used to sit at home with all these books and ideas and wait for my kids to pick them up so we could do something. Now, I start doing what I want to do and they join in. They are actually coming up with their own ideas of stuff to do.
I used to read all my magazines or books with ideas for fun stuff to myself and then present to the children. Now I read the mags to them and they take from there. Duh! I was making it so hard on myself.
I have also been having the girls help me cook...we make the menus, buy the stuff and then I make them follow the recipe...where before I would read and hover...if dinner doesn't turn out perfect, we usually know why. Just huge for learning for us. It is also the time when we have some great conversations.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
On Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:41:31
>This was so hard for me to learn! It's amazing to me that to unschool takes learning for me. Very hard to break those old patterns. Who wants to change when we are so comfy where we are? But ultimately change is the best learning experience. ( I read that somewhere, it sounds good doesn't it?)
>If he comes up to you at a museum or a historic site or in the mall you mean?
>Because leaving him at the house hoping he'll ask to go to a battlefield or
>archeological museum won't work as well as taking him those places and
>wandering around there and having other places and ideas come up.
>
>It will get easier, and what will help is not picking at it--not looking,
>continuously, for evidence of schoolwork or formal learning.
>
>But getting out is my best recommendation. Second-best recommendation is
>videos and new/different music. Break up static patterns with new input.
>
>Sandra
I used to sit at home with all these books and ideas and wait for my kids to pick them up so we could do something. Now, I start doing what I want to do and they join in. They are actually coming up with their own ideas of stuff to do.
I used to read all my magazines or books with ideas for fun stuff to myself and then present to the children. Now I read the mags to them and they take from there. Duh! I was making it so hard on myself.
I have also been having the girls help me cook...we make the menus, buy the stuff and then I make them follow the recipe...where before I would read and hover...if dinner doesn't turn out perfect, we usually know why. Just huge for learning for us. It is also the time when we have some great conversations.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
Teri Loftis
--Nothing severely traumatic happened, but hearing that what you're interested in has no value, that finishing something on time has more value than achieving your vision of it, etc., certainly left some scars. Has anyone else on the list been here? I've been trying to act to everyone around me that I believe that everything is fine, and deep down I believe it will be, but before that deep down is a lot of fear. Any other "deschoolers" out there? Thanks --
We have/are going through that stuff too. My daughter refuses to write, read, do math, anything related to school.
This will be her second full year of homeschool, she is 10. I worried and fretted and worried some more, that I was neglecting her because everything I suggested she rejected so I just let her be. She chose to listen to music, play outside, craft or draw. Patience is such a hard thing for a mom to practice!
Now this year I feel I have deschooledd also. Had to get over that 'we need to do math today' feeling. So she still won't read, unless it is outloud to me--but she loves to listen to me read...progress. She writes in secret. At night before sleep she uses a flashlight and writes songs or poems. She shares occasionally. She is actually quite good. We have workbooks, my littler one has never been to school and she is 8, she loves workbooks, but they are optional. Emily will work on those with her little sister too.
So, Caren, deschooling has taken almost 2 years and I still see residual effects. Some days it is me pulling out a book and reading while they lego or draw or write. The days I think they are listening the least are the days they ask me pretty detailed questions! Some days it is her saying she wants to know how a sonic boom works. (we heard it here in Illinois). Some days she just wants to have me read to her all day.
Then I have my littler one asking for a math test, and could you make me a spelling list. (Her public school friends are doing this). So we make a list and she memorizes. They both love to memorize poems or songs or prayers. It is just so strange and wonderful to see their little minds working. Emily is coming around, just takes time and patience and a mom that only wigs out occasionally!
Know that you are doing all the right things. Keep introducing new things or not. Sometimes I find something I want to learn about and just do it...they always join in, sometimes they stay, sometimes they don't. Another great jumping off spot for us is the newspaper. We get our coffee or tea in the morning in our jammies in my bed and go through. Again, sometimes there is something there, sometimes not. I think they like the routine of it.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
>Caren,
>Caren
>
We have/are going through that stuff too. My daughter refuses to write, read, do math, anything related to school.
This will be her second full year of homeschool, she is 10. I worried and fretted and worried some more, that I was neglecting her because everything I suggested she rejected so I just let her be. She chose to listen to music, play outside, craft or draw. Patience is such a hard thing for a mom to practice!
Now this year I feel I have deschooledd also. Had to get over that 'we need to do math today' feeling. So she still won't read, unless it is outloud to me--but she loves to listen to me read...progress. She writes in secret. At night before sleep she uses a flashlight and writes songs or poems. She shares occasionally. She is actually quite good. We have workbooks, my littler one has never been to school and she is 8, she loves workbooks, but they are optional. Emily will work on those with her little sister too.
So, Caren, deschooling has taken almost 2 years and I still see residual effects. Some days it is me pulling out a book and reading while they lego or draw or write. The days I think they are listening the least are the days they ask me pretty detailed questions! Some days it is her saying she wants to know how a sonic boom works. (we heard it here in Illinois). Some days she just wants to have me read to her all day.
Then I have my littler one asking for a math test, and could you make me a spelling list. (Her public school friends are doing this). So we make a list and she memorizes. They both love to memorize poems or songs or prayers. It is just so strange and wonderful to see their little minds working. Emily is coming around, just takes time and patience and a mom that only wigs out occasionally!
Know that you are doing all the right things. Keep introducing new things or not. Sometimes I find something I want to learn about and just do it...they always join in, sometimes they stay, sometimes they don't. Another great jumping off spot for us is the newspaper. We get our coffee or tea in the morning in our jammies in my bed and go through. Again, sometimes there is something there, sometimes not. I think they like the routine of it.
Teri
Make a difference, help support the relief efforts in the U.S.
http://clubs.lycos.com/live/events/september11.asp
[email protected]
--- > >
museum or battlefield, just that I'd hear he wanted to learn more
about a particular subject. Silly me, I forgot the world was there.
Here. Thanks so much for the reminder. I forget sometimes that if I
follow my own interests and invite him along, he'll develop interests
of his own. Or at least be more verbal about expressing those
interests, if for no other reason than to avoid being dragged to
another African drumming demonstration, or somesuch thing. Thanks
again.
Caren
> >If he comes up to you at a museum or a historic site or in themall you mean?
> >Because leaving him at the house hoping he'll ask to go to abattlefield or
> >archeological museum won't work as well as taking him those placesand
> >wandering around there and having other places and ideas come up.Ohhhhh..duh <g>. I wasn't exactly hoping he'd suggest we go to a
museum or battlefield, just that I'd hear he wanted to learn more
about a particular subject. Silly me, I forgot the world was there.
Here. Thanks so much for the reminder. I forget sometimes that if I
follow my own interests and invite him along, he'll develop interests
of his own. Or at least be more verbal about expressing those
interests, if for no other reason than to avoid being dragged to
another African drumming demonstration, or somesuch thing. Thanks
again.
Caren
Lori
Just to let the other two unschooling parents know
that they are in good company! I am unschooling my 9
and 12 year old, and many days, in fact, most days, we
are making it up as we go along. Maybe not such a bad
thing, but certainly not what I have been taught is
the right method.
....Sandra said:
If you stop looking for just what you consider
"learning activities," you
will see him learning all the time.
This is true, but I empathize to the other unschooling
parents. Being new to this, is very very difficult. I
never imagined I would feel this lost.
yourself to learn more about unschooling.
Well, perhaps there is a deschooling process for us
too? I have been reading and researching for probably
8 months now. I have hit the point where I made myself
not read anything else right now. It seems akin to
languages maybe. Like I've been reading all about
another language, and intellectually have sorted much
of it out. But now it is time to immerse myself in
language.
Personally, I understand when everyone says give it
time, etc. this is normal. You have a lot of years
ahead of you. Yet, that doesn't negate the need to
discuss it and have support. Very simple concrete
ideas are also helpful, as well as stories of some of
the oldtimers.
Thanks,
lori
=====
I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a
burden to bear.--
Martin Luther King, Jr.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
that they are in good company! I am unschooling my 9
and 12 year old, and many days, in fact, most days, we
are making it up as we go along. Maybe not such a bad
thing, but certainly not what I have been taught is
the right method.
....Sandra said:
If you stop looking for just what you consider
"learning activities," you
will see him learning all the time.
This is true, but I empathize to the other unschooling
parents. Being new to this, is very very difficult. I
never imagined I would feel this lost.
>>>Instead of waiting for him to "be motivated," maybeyou could motivate
yourself to learn more about unschooling.
Well, perhaps there is a deschooling process for us
too? I have been reading and researching for probably
8 months now. I have hit the point where I made myself
not read anything else right now. It seems akin to
languages maybe. Like I've been reading all about
another language, and intellectually have sorted much
of it out. But now it is time to immerse myself in
language.
Personally, I understand when everyone says give it
time, etc. this is normal. You have a lot of years
ahead of you. Yet, that doesn't negate the need to
discuss it and have support. Very simple concrete
ideas are also helpful, as well as stories of some of
the oldtimers.
Thanks,
lori
=====
I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a
burden to bear.--
Martin Luther King, Jr.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Find a job, post your resume.
http://careers.yahoo.com
[email protected]
<< If you stop looking for just what you consider
"learning activities," you
will see him learning all the time. >>
I consider that a hugely practical piece of advice.
Instead of giving it time, and waiting for it to happen, parents need to STOP
doing something too, which is stop waiting for it to look like school.
It's crucial that the parents try to change their own thinking and
expectations. If you consciously remove from your thinking all the school
measures and terms (semester, grade-level, subjects) it will take much LESS
time.
If it takes a year to deschool while holding one's breath in fear but only
two months of breathing and awareness, I don't recommend the long, hard way,
because that's ten months of frustration and mixed messages to the children.
I've seen some parents read and read and READ but they leave their children
in school, or keep their children doing math lessons and writing assignments
while they try to let what they've "learned" soak in, but it's not like a
language, it's like a bicycle. Read all you want, but without getting on a
bicycle, you're going nowhere.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
"learning activities," you
will see him learning all the time. >>
I consider that a hugely practical piece of advice.
Instead of giving it time, and waiting for it to happen, parents need to STOP
doing something too, which is stop waiting for it to look like school.
It's crucial that the parents try to change their own thinking and
expectations. If you consciously remove from your thinking all the school
measures and terms (semester, grade-level, subjects) it will take much LESS
time.
If it takes a year to deschool while holding one's breath in fear but only
two months of breathing and awareness, I don't recommend the long, hard way,
because that's ten months of frustration and mixed messages to the children.
I've seen some parents read and read and READ but they leave their children
in school, or keep their children doing math lessons and writing assignments
while they try to let what they've "learned" soak in, but it's not like a
language, it's like a bicycle. Read all you want, but without getting on a
bicycle, you're going nowhere.
Sandra
"Everything counts."
http://expage.com/SandraDoddArticles
http://expage.com/SandraDodd
Leslie
Our focus is on culinary arts and housekeeping :~) We're home, for most of the day, most days, so we tend to have a lot of messes to make and clean up. Between preparing meals and snacks, cleaning up after ourselves, shopping for supplies, finding some time to read and exercise, a little down time in front of the TV, some socializing with family and friends, a few dentist and Doctor appointments now and then, hip hop lessons, hockey etc... we can't keep up! I don't know where you'd find the time to consider and manufacture curriculum never mind the timely application of such. In fact, my friends who are teachers in public schools, find that the process of curriculum creation, application and testing, takes up all of their energy and time. The focus is always on what to show the parents at open house and report card time. The school board calls this accountability, I call it a waste of precious time. Childhood and natural learning comes to an abrupt halt, when one reaches the age of 7, with the implementation of curriculum and the assault of continuous testing. For us it's like summer/fall/winter/spring holidays all year round. Each activity we undertake leads seamlessly to the next. Because we have eliminated testing from our curriculum of daily living we have no need to artificially impose review and so we can focus on research, discovery and adventure to direct our daily lives and fill the time that exists between taking care of the basics like grooming, preparing meals, eating, cleaning up the mess etc......Even TV can't completely stop learning from happening. I worry all the time but I consider this to be a good mothers natural condition. My 18 year old unschooler is taking culinary arts courses at a local college (reflects our core curriculum!!) and working at a local department store. When he's adding up the hours of work and pay due he seems to have adequate math skills. He's working the cash which is easy for him being part of the computer generation. They love him in the electronics dept., being familiar with a remote control from babyhood, he can run and program any piece of electronic equipment. My mother was in the store and heard them call over the intercom, "Sky to electronics" and she was so proud! Not exactly Dr. M to emergency but his future is unfolding as it will and many of her fears are shrinking away. She's finding it easier to be supportive of our somewhat unusual lifestyle these days which makes it way easier for me with my 7 and 11 year olds.
If you follow your own heart and instincts your children will learn to follow their own! Their more likely to find happiness in this pursuit than they are by doing what they're told all the time. I've gone on a bit and I don't want to waste time editing so please excuse any errors and I hope this post gives you some comfort :~)
Leslie
Just to let the other two unschooling parents know
that they are in good company! I am unschooling my 9
and 12 year old, and many days, in fact, most days, we
are making it up as we go along. Maybe not such a bad
thing, but certainly not what I have been taught is
the right method.
....Sandra said:
If you stop looking for just what you consider
"learning activities," you
will see him learning all the time.
This is true, but I empathize to the other unschooling
parents. Being new to this, is very very difficult. I
never imagined I would feel this lost.
yourself to learn more about unschooling.
Well, perhaps there is a deschooling process for us
too? I have been reading and researching for probably
8 months now. I have hit the point where I made myself
not read anything else right now. It seems akin to
languages maybe. Like I've been reading all about
another language, and intellectually have sorted much
of it out. But now it is time to immerse myself in
language.
Personally, I understand when everyone says give it
time, etc. this is normal. You have a lot of years
ahead of you. Yet, that doesn't negate the need to
discuss it and have support. Very simple concrete
ideas are also helpful, as well as stories of some of
the oldtimers.
Thanks,
lori
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If you follow your own heart and instincts your children will learn to follow their own! Their more likely to find happiness in this pursuit than they are by doing what they're told all the time. I've gone on a bit and I don't want to waste time editing so please excuse any errors and I hope this post gives you some comfort :~)
Leslie
Just to let the other two unschooling parents know
that they are in good company! I am unschooling my 9
and 12 year old, and many days, in fact, most days, we
are making it up as we go along. Maybe not such a bad
thing, but certainly not what I have been taught is
the right method.
....Sandra said:
If you stop looking for just what you consider
"learning activities," you
will see him learning all the time.
This is true, but I empathize to the other unschooling
parents. Being new to this, is very very difficult. I
never imagined I would feel this lost.
>>>Instead of waiting for him to "be motivated," maybeyou could motivate
yourself to learn more about unschooling.
Well, perhaps there is a deschooling process for us
too? I have been reading and researching for probably
8 months now. I have hit the point where I made myself
not read anything else right now. It seems akin to
languages maybe. Like I've been reading all about
another language, and intellectually have sorted much
of it out. But now it is time to immerse myself in
language.
Personally, I understand when everyone says give it
time, etc. this is normal. You have a lot of years
ahead of you. Yet, that doesn't negate the need to
discuss it and have support. Very simple concrete
ideas are also helpful, as well as stories of some of
the oldtimers.
Thanks,
lori
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
---I hear ya!! The think that is givin me some relief in worrying
about the children finding their way...is just doing what I WANT.
Instead of wasting my time trying to get them involved in
something...or checking to see what 7yod is doing ...I worry about
myself. If I want to sew...I sew. If I want to bake bread...I bake
bread. I kids are pretty curious and join me...which I'm glad. If
they don't...then it's their responsibility to find things for
themselves.
This is hard...for I have to remind myself...everyday. But it seams
to be working!!!! I know...some of you are probably thinking "DAH"
But for some of us...this relaxing is new. And so exciting...hehehe
SHAWN
In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie" <leslie@j...> wrote:
make and clean up. Between preparing meals and snacks, cleaning up
after ourselves, shopping for supplies, finding some time to read and
exercise, a little down time in front of the TV, some socializing
with family and friends, a few dentist and Doctor appointments now
and then, hip hop lessons, hockey etc... we can't keep up! I don't
know where you'd find the time to consider and manufacture curriculum
never mind the timely application of such. In fact, my friends who
are teachers in public schools, find that the process of curriculum
creation, application and testing, takes up all of their energy and
time. The focus is always on what to show the parents at open house
and report card time. The school board calls this accountability, I
call it a waste of precious time. Childhood and natural learning
comes to an abrupt halt, when one reaches the age of 7, with the
implementation of curriculum and the assault of continuous testing.
For us it's like summer/fall/winter/spring holidays all year round.
Each activity we undertake leads seamlessly to the next. Because we
have eliminated testing from our curriculum of daily living we have
no need to artificially impose review and so we can focus on
research, discovery and adventure to direct our daily lives and fill
the time that exists between taking care of the basics like grooming,
preparing meals, eating, cleaning up the mess etc......Even TV can't
completely stop learning from happening. I worry all the time but I
consider this to be a good mothers natural condition. My 18 year old
unschooler is taking culinary arts courses at a local college
(reflects our core curriculum!!) and working at a local department
store. When he's adding up the hours of work and pay due he seems to
have adequate math skills. He's working the cash which is easy for
him being part of the computer generation. They love him in the
electronics dept., being familiar with a remote control from
babyhood, he can run and program any piece of electronic equipment.
My mother was in the store and heard them call over the
intercom, "Sky to electronics" and she was so proud! Not exactly Dr.
M to emergency but his future is unfolding as it will and many of her
fears are shrinking away. She's finding it easier to be supportive of
our somewhat unusual lifestyle these days which makes it way easier
for me with my 7 and 11 year olds.
pursuit than they are by doing what they're told all the time. I've
gone on a bit and I don't want to waste time editing so please excuse
any errors and I hope this post gives you some comfort :~)
about the children finding their way...is just doing what I WANT.
Instead of wasting my time trying to get them involved in
something...or checking to see what 7yod is doing ...I worry about
myself. If I want to sew...I sew. If I want to bake bread...I bake
bread. I kids are pretty curious and join me...which I'm glad. If
they don't...then it's their responsibility to find things for
themselves.
This is hard...for I have to remind myself...everyday. But it seams
to be working!!!! I know...some of you are probably thinking "DAH"
But for some of us...this relaxing is new. And so exciting...hehehe
SHAWN
In Unschooling-dotcom@y..., "Leslie" <leslie@j...> wrote:
> Our focus is on culinary arts and housekeeping :~) We're home, formost of the day, most days, so we tend to have a lot of messes to
make and clean up. Between preparing meals and snacks, cleaning up
after ourselves, shopping for supplies, finding some time to read and
exercise, a little down time in front of the TV, some socializing
with family and friends, a few dentist and Doctor appointments now
and then, hip hop lessons, hockey etc... we can't keep up! I don't
know where you'd find the time to consider and manufacture curriculum
never mind the timely application of such. In fact, my friends who
are teachers in public schools, find that the process of curriculum
creation, application and testing, takes up all of their energy and
time. The focus is always on what to show the parents at open house
and report card time. The school board calls this accountability, I
call it a waste of precious time. Childhood and natural learning
comes to an abrupt halt, when one reaches the age of 7, with the
implementation of curriculum and the assault of continuous testing.
For us it's like summer/fall/winter/spring holidays all year round.
Each activity we undertake leads seamlessly to the next. Because we
have eliminated testing from our curriculum of daily living we have
no need to artificially impose review and so we can focus on
research, discovery and adventure to direct our daily lives and fill
the time that exists between taking care of the basics like grooming,
preparing meals, eating, cleaning up the mess etc......Even TV can't
completely stop learning from happening. I worry all the time but I
consider this to be a good mothers natural condition. My 18 year old
unschooler is taking culinary arts courses at a local college
(reflects our core curriculum!!) and working at a local department
store. When he's adding up the hours of work and pay due he seems to
have adequate math skills. He's working the cash which is easy for
him being part of the computer generation. They love him in the
electronics dept., being familiar with a remote control from
babyhood, he can run and program any piece of electronic equipment.
My mother was in the store and heard them call over the
intercom, "Sky to electronics" and she was so proud! Not exactly Dr.
M to emergency but his future is unfolding as it will and many of her
fears are shrinking away. She's finding it easier to be supportive of
our somewhat unusual lifestyle these days which makes it way easier
for me with my 7 and 11 year olds.
> If you follow your own heart and instincts your children will learnto follow their own! Their more likely to find happiness in this
pursuit than they are by doing what they're told all the time. I've
gone on a bit and I don't want to waste time editing so please excuse
any errors and I hope this post gives you some comfort :~)
> Leslie
>
> Just to let the other two unschooling parents know
> that they are in good company! I am unschooling my 9
> and 12 year old, and many days, in fact, most days, we
> are making it up as we go along. Maybe not such a bad
> thing, but certainly not what I have been taught is
> the right method.
>
> ....Sandra said:
>
> If you stop looking for just what you consider
> "learning activities," you
> will see him learning all the time.
>
> This is true, but I empathize to the other unschooling
> parents. Being new to this, is very very difficult. I
> never imagined I would feel this lost.
>
> >>>Instead of waiting for him to "be motivated," maybe
>
> you could motivate
> yourself to learn more about unschooling.
>
> Well, perhaps there is a deschooling process for us
> too? I have been reading and researching for probably
> 8 months now. I have hit the point where I made myself
> not read anything else right now. It seems akin to
> languages maybe. Like I've been reading all about
> another language, and intellectually have sorted much
> of it out. But now it is time to immerse myself in
> language.
>
> Personally, I understand when everyone says give it
> time, etc. this is normal. You have a lot of years
> ahead of you. Yet, that doesn't negate the need to
> discuss it and have support. Very simple concrete
> ideas are also helpful, as well as stories of some of
> the oldtimers.
>
> Thanks,
>
> lori
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Lisa Hardiman
Dear Unschoolers: I am Homeschooling my 8 year old after he attending 1
½ years of school. I find myself needing to deschool as well as give
him the space to deschool himself. What would help me if I could read
personal accounts of deschooling. Thank you for your support. Lisa of
MT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
½ years of school. I find myself needing to deschool as well as give
him the space to deschool himself. What would help me if I could read
personal accounts of deschooling. Thank you for your support. Lisa of
MT
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
Hi, Lisa of MT.
I am living in a similar situation with my nearly-8-year-old son who
attended a year and a half of school and then I realized what a MISTAKE I
had made. We have been deschooling ever since we got out of there last winter.
The thing that springs to my mind, I suppose because it is so prevalent in
our lives right now, is protecting my son and me from the schoolish minds
and mindsets that surround us. These little comments and questions
sometimes have us (mostly me, really) calling into question what we KNOW is
right. My son Liam is so proud of our unschooling, but it seems that no
one else from our various circles understands it or has a clue about
it. And, this is okay, or it should be. It doesn't matter - or shouldn't
matter - what other people think about what we are doing (or
un-doing). All that matters is what WE think of it, and to keep our
impressions pure, we are trying to surround ourselves now with other folks
who are also unschooling. At least now while we are at the beginning of
our path.
I know that this doesn't really answer the specific question you asked, but
for some reason your question got me thinking spontaneously and this is
what came out. I hope it's okay. I'm looking forward, too, to seeing
other peoples' accounts of their deschooling and what that looked like for
them. It's ALWAYS inspiring for me to read these stories.
Best wishes,
Marji
At 10:29 9/14/02 -0600, you wrote:
I am living in a similar situation with my nearly-8-year-old son who
attended a year and a half of school and then I realized what a MISTAKE I
had made. We have been deschooling ever since we got out of there last winter.
The thing that springs to my mind, I suppose because it is so prevalent in
our lives right now, is protecting my son and me from the schoolish minds
and mindsets that surround us. These little comments and questions
sometimes have us (mostly me, really) calling into question what we KNOW is
right. My son Liam is so proud of our unschooling, but it seems that no
one else from our various circles understands it or has a clue about
it. And, this is okay, or it should be. It doesn't matter - or shouldn't
matter - what other people think about what we are doing (or
un-doing). All that matters is what WE think of it, and to keep our
impressions pure, we are trying to surround ourselves now with other folks
who are also unschooling. At least now while we are at the beginning of
our path.
I know that this doesn't really answer the specific question you asked, but
for some reason your question got me thinking spontaneously and this is
what came out. I hope it's okay. I'm looking forward, too, to seeing
other peoples' accounts of their deschooling and what that looked like for
them. It's ALWAYS inspiring for me to read these stories.
Best wishes,
Marji
At 10:29 9/14/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Unschoolers: I am Homeschooling my 8 year old after he attending 1[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>½ years of school. I find myself needing to deschool as well as give
>him the space to deschool himself. What would help me if I could read
>personal accounts of deschooling. Thank you for your support. Lisa of
>MT
Betsy
** My son Liam is so proud of our unschooling, but it seems that no
one else from our various circles understands it or has a clue about
it. And, this is okay, or it should be.**
I think it is great that you are willing to let his opinion count more
than the opinions of others.
Betsy
one else from our various circles understands it or has a clue about
it. And, this is okay, or it should be.**
I think it is great that you are willing to let his opinion count more
than the opinions of others.
Betsy
MO Milligans
At 10:29 AM 9/14/02 -0600, you wrote:
Since our kids have never been in a school building, I can't share any
personal accounts. However, I was once doing searches on Google.com, and
came up with a BUNCH of site on this very topic :) Just type "deschooling"
into the google-search, and watch the list of sites grow :-D
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
>What would help me if I could read personal accounts of==
>deschooling. Thank you for your support. Lisa of
>MT
Since our kids have never been in a school building, I can't share any
personal accounts. However, I was once doing searches on Google.com, and
came up with a BUNCH of site on this very topic :) Just type "deschooling"
into the google-search, and watch the list of sites grow :-D
Todd
Our HOME page
http://rambleman.tripod.com/index.html
Lisa Hardiman
Thank you, I needed a shot of pure faith today and that is what you
showed me. Lisa
-----Original Message-----
From: marji [mailto:marji@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 10:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] deschooling
Hi, Lisa of MT.
I am living in a similar situation with my nearly-8-year-old son who
attended a year and a half of school and then I realized what a MISTAKE
I
had made. We have been deschooling ever since we got out of there last
winter.
The thing that springs to my mind, I suppose because it is so prevalent
in
our lives right now, is protecting my son and me from the schoolish
minds
and mindsets that surround us. These little comments and questions
sometimes have us (mostly me, really) calling into question what we KNOW
is
right. My son Liam is so proud of our unschooling, but it seems that no
one else from our various circles understands it or has a clue about
it. And, this is okay, or it should be. It doesn't matter - or
shouldn't
matter - what other people think about what we are doing (or
un-doing). All that matters is what WE think of it, and to keep our
impressions pure, we are trying to surround ourselves now with other
folks
who are also unschooling. At least now while we are at the beginning of
our path.
I know that this doesn't really answer the specific question you asked,
but
for some reason your question got me thinking spontaneously and this is
what came out. I hope it's okay. I'm looking forward, too, to seeing
other peoples' accounts of their deschooling and what that looked like
for
them. It's ALWAYS inspiring for me to read these stories.
Best wishes,
Marji
At 10:29 9/14/02 -0600, you wrote:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
showed me. Lisa
-----Original Message-----
From: marji [mailto:marji@...]
Sent: Saturday, September 14, 2002 10:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] deschooling
Hi, Lisa of MT.
I am living in a similar situation with my nearly-8-year-old son who
attended a year and a half of school and then I realized what a MISTAKE
I
had made. We have been deschooling ever since we got out of there last
winter.
The thing that springs to my mind, I suppose because it is so prevalent
in
our lives right now, is protecting my son and me from the schoolish
minds
and mindsets that surround us. These little comments and questions
sometimes have us (mostly me, really) calling into question what we KNOW
is
right. My son Liam is so proud of our unschooling, but it seems that no
one else from our various circles understands it or has a clue about
it. And, this is okay, or it should be. It doesn't matter - or
shouldn't
matter - what other people think about what we are doing (or
un-doing). All that matters is what WE think of it, and to keep our
impressions pure, we are trying to surround ourselves now with other
folks
who are also unschooling. At least now while we are at the beginning of
our path.
I know that this doesn't really answer the specific question you asked,
but
for some reason your question got me thinking spontaneously and this is
what came out. I hope it's okay. I'm looking forward, too, to seeing
other peoples' accounts of their deschooling and what that looked like
for
them. It's ALWAYS inspiring for me to read these stories.
Best wishes,
Marji
At 10:29 9/14/02 -0600, you wrote:
>Dear Unschoolers: I am Homeschooling my 8 year old after he attending1
>½ years of school. I find myself needing to deschool as well as give[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>him the space to deschool himself. What would help me if I could read
>personal accounts of deschooling. Thank you for your support. Lisa of
>MT
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 4/7/2003 6:39:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
find that we, and only we, are responsible for our own learning. But it takes
deschooling. If she's been in school or been doing school-at-home, then she
needs to be alllowed to deschool and find passions and delve deeply into them
without the "baggage". I'd keep her away from grandparents (or warn them up
front to keep their schooly mouths SHUT!) and others that might start talking
that way.
Cameron, 15, was schooled eight years and felt that way. I reassured him and
let him "veg" for a long while until he got that out of his system. He
struggled for a long time and eventually got to where he could (mostly) laugh
off his friend's questions about diplomas and algebra and college and a
career. Right now he's VERY involved in his own things---and truly
understands unschooling and that he's incharge of his learning.
Duncan, at seven, has none of those hang-ups because he's never been
"taught". He KNOWS he's in charge! <G>
How old is your daughter? And how long was she "taught"?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
litlrooh@... writes:
> And what do you do with a child who refuses to accept that responsibilityI think that's a time thing. I think eventually even we schooled moms come to
> and has the belief that it is the Parent's responsibility to "teach"? (Not
> only that, but most of society views it that way and therefor reinforces
> that view.)
>
> I've had this situation at different times, though not recently. But I
> wonder how soon it will come up again.
find that we, and only we, are responsible for our own learning. But it takes
deschooling. If she's been in school or been doing school-at-home, then she
needs to be alllowed to deschool and find passions and delve deeply into them
without the "baggage". I'd keep her away from grandparents (or warn them up
front to keep their schooly mouths SHUT!) and others that might start talking
that way.
Cameron, 15, was schooled eight years and felt that way. I reassured him and
let him "veg" for a long while until he got that out of his system. He
struggled for a long time and eventually got to where he could (mostly) laugh
off his friend's questions about diplomas and algebra and college and a
career. Right now he's VERY involved in his own things---and truly
understands unschooling and that he's incharge of his learning.
Duncan, at seven, has none of those hang-ups because he's never been
"taught". He KNOWS he's in charge! <G>
How old is your daughter? And how long was she "taught"?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Actually it was my son, who is 14. He was in school till 4th grade and has been home for about 4 years I guess. We never did a strict "school at home" thing, but a 3R's kind of thing until about 2 years ago. Since then, *most* of the time I'd put unschooling into practice, in spite of my own "anxieties". This year, I've completely let it go and I really am not worried at all.
I haven't heard him saying anything about it since last Spring, so perhaps he has reached the point where he wants to be in charge anyway.
I know what you mean about the youngest!! My youngest KNOWS she is in charge...and has no problem with being in charge LOL.
Kristen
I haven't heard him saying anything about it since last Spring, so perhaps he has reached the point where he wants to be in charge anyway.
I know what you mean about the youngest!! My youngest KNOWS she is in charge...and has no problem with being in charge LOL.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] deschooling
In a message dated 4/7/2003 6:39:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> And what do you do with a child who refuses to accept that responsibility
> and has the belief that it is the Parent's responsibility to "teach"? (Not
> only that, but most of society views it that way and therefor reinforces
> that view.)
>
> I've had this situation at different times, though not recently. But I
> wonder how soon it will come up again.
I think that's a time thing. I think eventually even we schooled moms come to
find that we, and only we, are responsible for our own learning. But it takes
deschooling. If she's been in school or been doing school-at-home, then she
needs to be alllowed to deschool and find passions and delve deeply into them
without the "baggage". I'd keep her away from grandparents (or warn them up
front to keep their schooly mouths SHUT!) and others that might start talking
that way.
Cameron, 15, was schooled eight years and felt that way. I reassured him and
let him "veg" for a long while until he got that out of his system. He
struggled for a long time and eventually got to where he could (mostly) laugh
off his friend's questions about diplomas and algebra and college and a
career. Right now he's VERY involved in his own things---and truly
understands unschooling and that he's incharge of his learning.
Duncan, at seven, has none of those hang-ups because he's never been
"taught". He KNOWS he's in charge! <G>
How old is your daughter? And how long was she "taught"?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I've been thinking more about all of this and it occurs to me that I think we are on the verge of a major breakthrough here.
It has felt like limbo around here for awhile...the sampling on the buffet with no real appetite for anything.
BUT, I think we are about to become totally involved in some new things that are going to take up a good amount of time and lead us down some really intricate paths....like the tech theater thing...and the SCA. My best friend is doing costuming for the local high school productions too.
I asked my son if he was interested in working backstage at a community theater...even if it meant no pay. He seemed really interested ( a first for things that don't offer a paycheck). That says something to me.
And the SCA sounds just so incredibly neat. I have always loved that time period even though I don't really know that much about it. I used to look at picture books from the library that were all about the old Kings and Queens.
I'm really looking forward to getting involved. I did email one of the local officers. Still waiting for a reply.
My daughters have no lack of interests either.
And my son, who was talking about going back to high school next year opted instead to "dual enroll" and try to get into one or two electives instead (tech theater and video production). He realized that the actual core classes he'd have to take as a full time enrolled student weren't really what he was interested in anyway. And I hope it sunk in that he might not see his friends *anyway*, even at lunch.
It hasn't hurt either that his friends keep saying how lucky he is that he gets to homeschool and he doesnt' have to take the PSSA test (statewide test).
And when I asked him if he wanted to sit down and "do algebra" (key to style), he said "Mom, I can *learn* this on my *own*". Perhaps a change in thinking about what learning really means?
Kristen
It has felt like limbo around here for awhile...the sampling on the buffet with no real appetite for anything.
BUT, I think we are about to become totally involved in some new things that are going to take up a good amount of time and lead us down some really intricate paths....like the tech theater thing...and the SCA. My best friend is doing costuming for the local high school productions too.
I asked my son if he was interested in working backstage at a community theater...even if it meant no pay. He seemed really interested ( a first for things that don't offer a paycheck). That says something to me.
And the SCA sounds just so incredibly neat. I have always loved that time period even though I don't really know that much about it. I used to look at picture books from the library that were all about the old Kings and Queens.
I'm really looking forward to getting involved. I did email one of the local officers. Still waiting for a reply.
My daughters have no lack of interests either.
And my son, who was talking about going back to high school next year opted instead to "dual enroll" and try to get into one or two electives instead (tech theater and video production). He realized that the actual core classes he'd have to take as a full time enrolled student weren't really what he was interested in anyway. And I hope it sunk in that he might not see his friends *anyway*, even at lunch.
It hasn't hurt either that his friends keep saying how lucky he is that he gets to homeschool and he doesnt' have to take the PSSA test (statewide test).
And when I asked him if he wanted to sit down and "do algebra" (key to style), he said "Mom, I can *learn* this on my *own*". Perhaps a change in thinking about what learning really means?
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Have a Nice Day!
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] deschooling
Actually it was my son, who is 14. He was in school till 4th grade and has been home for about 4 years I guess. We never did a strict "school at home" thing, but a 3R's kind of thing until about 2 years ago. Since then, *most* of the time I'd put unschooling into practice, in spite of my own "anxieties". This year, I've completely let it go and I really am not worried at all.
I haven't heard him saying anything about it since last Spring, so perhaps he has reached the point where he wants to be in charge anyway.
I know what you mean about the youngest!! My youngest KNOWS she is in charge...and has no problem with being in charge LOL.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: kbcdlovejo@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2003 6:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] deschooling
In a message dated 4/7/2003 6:39:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
litlrooh@... writes:
> And what do you do with a child who refuses to accept that responsibility
> and has the belief that it is the Parent's responsibility to "teach"? (Not
> only that, but most of society views it that way and therefor reinforces
> that view.)
>
> I've had this situation at different times, though not recently. But I
> wonder how soon it will come up again.
I think that's a time thing. I think eventually even we schooled moms come to
find that we, and only we, are responsible for our own learning. But it takes
deschooling. If she's been in school or been doing school-at-home, then she
needs to be alllowed to deschool and find passions and delve deeply into them
without the "baggage". I'd keep her away from grandparents (or warn them up
front to keep their schooly mouths SHUT!) and others that might start talking
that way.
Cameron, 15, was schooled eight years and felt that way. I reassured him and
let him "veg" for a long while until he got that out of his system. He
struggled for a long time and eventually got to where he could (mostly) laugh
off his friend's questions about diplomas and algebra and college and a
career. Right now he's VERY involved in his own things---and truly
understands unschooling and that he's incharge of his learning.
Duncan, at seven, has none of those hang-ups because he's never been
"taught". He KNOWS he's in charge! <G>
How old is your daughter? And how long was she "taught"?
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Pam Hartley
> Anyway, you guessed it, my kids now rarely choose an activity that looksIf that's what you're waiting for unschooling to look like you may be
> remotely 'educational'.
waiting a long, long time... or forever. :) Some kids do decide to pick up
workbooks or begin a year-long project of building a rain-forest in the
basement, complete with graphs and grant applications. Many don't. :)
An exercise that's helpful to some unschooler/deschooler moms is to keep a
journal of everything you notice the kids doing all day, every day, for your
eyes only. After a month or two, go back and read through the daily entries.
>OK, just tell meSo except for eating, sleeping, and going to the bathroom, those are the
> it's alright for 14 dd to only have the activities of I-Ming people and
> being on the phone. I don't think she's depressed, I think it's my problem.
only two things she does or has done for months? Nah. :) She's probably
watched some TV or listened to some music or gone to the mall or the grocery
store or walked outdoors (if only to get to the car to get to the mall <g>).
> So thanks for listening to all this. Let me know if you have any tips forMake sure that there are other things to do "on offer" to her -- not
> getting through this tough spot.
"educational" things, just stuff she might like (gardening or cooking or
nature hikes or walking the neighbor's dog or breeding fancy guppies or
taking horseback riding lessons or going to science fiction conventions
or... ?)
Aid and abet her. If the computer is her life, find out if there is more
computer "stuff" she'd like. If her friends are currently only on the phone,
tell her to feel free to invite them over. Put out a lot of food and make
the house comfortable for teens.
If she really doesn't want to do anything else, respect that, but make sure
she doesn't think there IS nothing else to do and defaults to the phone and
IM's rather than stare at the walls or pick up a math workbook.
Pam
Gary m and Mary Anne Taylor
Pam wrote:
If she really doesn't want to do anything else, respect that, but make sure
she doesn't think there IS nothing else to do
Thanks Pam, will just keep offering things. And you're right, I was exagerrating- she really does do things other than talk on phone and IM. It's just it seems to me her range of interests is shrinking instead of growing. But maybe she really is decompressing from me -previous to about January- 'guiding' (read coercing) her activities. I hope so anyway. I just thought that would be over by now.
I have really enjoyed being nice to her and trying to support her actions, and make things comfy for her and her friends. Just a little part of me wants to push for schooly things. I have held off though, and intend to keep trying. Just having a little trouble keeping faith. Will try to let go of my arbitrary timelines.
Mary T.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
If she really doesn't want to do anything else, respect that, but make sure
she doesn't think there IS nothing else to do
Thanks Pam, will just keep offering things. And you're right, I was exagerrating- she really does do things other than talk on phone and IM. It's just it seems to me her range of interests is shrinking instead of growing. But maybe she really is decompressing from me -previous to about January- 'guiding' (read coercing) her activities. I hope so anyway. I just thought that would be over by now.
I have really enjoyed being nice to her and trying to support her actions, and make things comfy for her and her friends. Just a little part of me wants to push for schooly things. I have held off though, and intend to keep trying. Just having a little trouble keeping faith. Will try to let go of my arbitrary timelines.
Mary T.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/2003 1:30:01 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
berybrit@... writes:
beginning of my unschooling journey with Cameron. That's about all he did for
almost two years---talk with friends, watch tv, and sleep. Really. From 12-14.
And, boy, was it hard to bite my tongue and not say something!
But this last year has been remarkable! I think he just needed to heal from
the pain of school. He has ALL these new interests and new friends and new
HAPPINESS!
Makes me angry to think we could have found unschooling earlier.
She won't stay like this for long (in the grand scheme of things). She'll
find her passions. Just give her time.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
berybrit@... writes:
> Thanks Pam, will just keep offering things. And you're right, I wasI have written often (although it *might* not have been *here*) about the
> exagerrating- she really does do things other than talk on phone and IM. It's just
> it seems to me her range of interests is shrinking instead of growing. But
> maybe she really is decompressing from me -previous to about January- 'guiding'
> (read coercing) her activities. I hope so anyway. I just thought that would
> be over by now.
> I have really enjoyed being nice to her and trying to support her actions,
> and make things comfy for her and her friends. Just a little part of me wants
> to push for schooly things. I have held off though, and intend to keep
> trying. Just having a little trouble keeping faith. Will try to let go of my
> arbitrary timelines.
>
beginning of my unschooling journey with Cameron. That's about all he did for
almost two years---talk with friends, watch tv, and sleep. Really. From 12-14.
And, boy, was it hard to bite my tongue and not say something!
But this last year has been remarkable! I think he just needed to heal from
the pain of school. He has ALL these new interests and new friends and new
HAPPINESS!
Makes me angry to think we could have found unschooling earlier.
She won't stay like this for long (in the grand scheme of things). She'll
find her passions. Just give her time.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gary m and Mary Anne Taylor
Kelly says:
She won't stay like this for long (in the grand scheme of things). She'll
find her passions. Just give her time.
Thanks, Kelly. That reassures me. Think I'll try to look at it as a kind of 'fermentation time', where things are brewing and changing. I knew kids coming out of school needed a long time to decompress, but I think I was minimizing the change in our house from 'relaxed' homeschooling to unschooling.
Meantime, I have been watching natural learning in me. I used to dread writing, thought I just wasn't good at it, but recently helped write/edit a newsletter because if I didn't do it, it wasn't going to get done. And communicating what I want to say is easier for me now! (I hope-maybe this is really garbled). It's great! So if that can happen to old me, my kids can learn that way too, right?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She won't stay like this for long (in the grand scheme of things). She'll
find her passions. Just give her time.
Thanks, Kelly. That reassures me. Think I'll try to look at it as a kind of 'fermentation time', where things are brewing and changing. I knew kids coming out of school needed a long time to decompress, but I think I was minimizing the change in our house from 'relaxed' homeschooling to unschooling.
Meantime, I have been watching natural learning in me. I used to dread writing, thought I just wasn't good at it, but recently helped write/edit a newsletter because if I didn't do it, it wasn't going to get done. And communicating what I want to say is easier for me now! (I hope-maybe this is really garbled). It's great! So if that can happen to old me, my kids can learn that way too, right?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 8/13/03 9:09:56 AM, berybrit@... writes:
<< So if that can happen to old me, my kids can learn that way too, right?>>
WAY easier! They won't be fighting against all those years of conditioning.
<< So if that can happen to old me, my kids can learn that way too, right?>>
WAY easier! They won't be fighting against all those years of conditioning.