safety equipment
nellebelle
I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
Mary Ellen
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
Mary Ellen
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/21/03 2:20:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:
wrist guards and knee pads but don't insist. My only insistence is a helmet.
Hope this helps
Heidi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle@... writes:
> I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,At that age my rule is no helmet no ride. With skateboarding I encourage
> skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to
> this.
wrist guards and knee pads but don't insist. My only insistence is a helmet.
Hope this helps
Heidi
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/21/03 3:21:03 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
Whenever I say so in public like this I get hooted at by moms who absolutely
DO require it and want everyone else to also. Then the others who don't
require it are afraid to say so.
So I can venture to speak for some who will be too afraid to do so and say
than when our kids were little we bought them pads and helmets (and bikes and
skates) but the only time they had to wear the stuff was when they were with
another kid whose parents made him wear it.
We always expected that Marty would be injured a time or three in his
childhood, as he's so much like his dad, who had several broken bones and a
hospitalization as a kid.
Marty is fourteen, adult-sized, and has a 1" scar on his side from walking
behind a wooden fence and scraping on a nail. Period. He fell and scraped
the side of his hand one day, skating back from the grocery store on an
errand for me. I felt bad. It didn't need a doctor.
Those who want to defend forcing kids to use safety equipment may commence to
tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.
Sandra
<< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
>>We don't require any.
Whenever I say so in public like this I get hooted at by moms who absolutely
DO require it and want everyone else to also. Then the others who don't
require it are afraid to say so.
So I can venture to speak for some who will be too afraid to do so and say
than when our kids were little we bought them pads and helmets (and bikes and
skates) but the only time they had to wear the stuff was when they were with
another kid whose parents made him wear it.
We always expected that Marty would be injured a time or three in his
childhood, as he's so much like his dad, who had several broken bones and a
hospitalization as a kid.
Marty is fourteen, adult-sized, and has a 1" scar on his side from walking
behind a wooden fence and scraping on a nail. Period. He fell and scraped
the side of his hand one day, skating back from the grocery store on an
errand for me. I felt bad. It didn't need a doctor.
Those who want to defend forcing kids to use safety equipment may commence to
tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/21/03 10:20:47 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
not the law where you are (and you don't want to say it is), then it's one of
those things that you need to decide if it's enough of a safety issue to
decide for them or not. (Urban vs country, cul-de-sac vs busy street, etc.)
Whatever it is though, do lots'a talking with your child about it! S/he may
just decide all on his/her own to wear them if they fully know what can
happen without the safety stuff. Maybe you could come up with a compromise,
like he wears the helmet, but doesn't have to wear the pads. (Head's now
protected, but skinning knee can show him he might rather have them on, but
still had his own power to make the decision.) Lara........
<< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
>>It's the law here, so it's simple; can't do it if you don't wear it. If it's
not the law where you are (and you don't want to say it is), then it's one of
those things that you need to decide if it's enough of a safety issue to
decide for them or not. (Urban vs country, cul-de-sac vs busy street, etc.)
Whatever it is though, do lots'a talking with your child about it! S/he may
just decide all on his/her own to wear them if they fully know what can
happen without the safety stuff. Maybe you could come up with a compromise,
like he wears the helmet, but doesn't have to wear the pads. (Head's now
protected, but skinning knee can show him he might rather have them on, but
still had his own power to make the decision.) Lara........
Deborah Lewis
***Those who want to defend forcing kids to use safety equipment may
commence to
tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.***
When my brother discovered we didn't require safety equipment for bikes
and skates he told us what we'd already heard two dozen times.
We told him, shockingly, Dylan eats peanuts and they can be deadly for
some. People have choked to death on food but he still eats. Lots of
people die in car accidents but he still rides in the car and lots of
people have died from tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, lightening, heat
stroke, drowning and exposure but he still lives on Earth. AND he
sleeps on the top bunk without a safety net.
He has safety equipment if he wants to wear it. He doesn't skate or
ride his bike much, anyway.
When he was almost four he took a header into Grandma's marble top coffee
table. It had been moved out of the thoroughfare but his little round
head still found the edge of it. He had four stitches and now a scar.
It may have been prevented if he'd been in full safety gear inside her
house, I don't know.
He doesn't wear sparring gear at his dojo either, but he wears it at
other clubs where it's required and where he doesn't know if the kids
kick as hard as they can or just spar friendly like.
Deb L
commence to
tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.***
When my brother discovered we didn't require safety equipment for bikes
and skates he told us what we'd already heard two dozen times.
We told him, shockingly, Dylan eats peanuts and they can be deadly for
some. People have choked to death on food but he still eats. Lots of
people die in car accidents but he still rides in the car and lots of
people have died from tornadoes, earthquakes, floods, lightening, heat
stroke, drowning and exposure but he still lives on Earth. AND he
sleeps on the top bunk without a safety net.
He has safety equipment if he wants to wear it. He doesn't skate or
ride his bike much, anyway.
When he was almost four he took a header into Grandma's marble top coffee
table. It had been moved out of the thoroughfare but his little round
head still found the edge of it. He had four stitches and now a scar.
It may have been prevented if he'd been in full safety gear inside her
house, I don't know.
He doesn't wear sparring gear at his dojo either, but he wears it at
other clubs where it's required and where he doesn't know if the kids
kick as hard as they can or just spar friendly like.
Deb L
Bill and Diane
>That would be me. Thanks for speaking up to represent us, the timid but
>
><< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
>
>skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
>
>
>We don't require any.
>
>Whenever I say so in public like this I get hooted at by moms who absolutely
>DO require it and want everyone else to also. Then the others who don't
>require it are afraid to say so.
>
easygoing.
>So I can venture to speak for some who will be too afraid to do so and sayI tend to do this, too: have stuff so my kids can play with others and
>than when our kids were little we bought them pads and helmets (and bikes and
>skates) but the only time they had to wear the stuff was when they were with
>another kid whose parents made him wear it.
>
not appear to flout their rules. I also end up just letting the other
parent know we don't have that rule sometimes so their kids may have a
little extra space for a while.
:-) Diane
Heidi and Brent Ricks
We have a bike helmet law here too so again it makes it easy. I know we would enforce it anyway though as we both work/ed in emergency medicine and have seen first-hand the results of not using safety
gear. Helmets are expensive but my kids head is well worth protecting. My kids have no problems with wearing the helmets because everyone around here does for most sports that involve wheels or snow.
They think their helmets are "cool". I think it helps to decide where you are going to stand on the issue right when they start on a bike and then stick to it. If you are wishy-washy then you will
loose the battle for sure.
Heidi R
nellebelle wrote:
gear. Helmets are expensive but my kids head is well worth protecting. My kids have no problems with wearing the helmets because everyone around here does for most sports that involve wheels or snow.
They think their helmets are "cool". I think it helps to decide where you are going to stand on the issue right when they start on a bike and then stick to it. If you are wishy-washy then you will
loose the battle for sure.
Heidi R
nellebelle wrote:
> I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,
> skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
>
> Mary Ellen
>
>
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[email protected]
<< If you are wishy-washy then you will
loose the battle for sure. >>
We chose not to have a battle.
We've never been wishy washy about it.
<< Helmets are expensive but my kids head is well worth protecting.>>
Mine aren't.
NOT REALLY.
But isn't that the implication when someone says "my kids are worth it"?
Like "We would unschool, but we want our kids to go to college."
As though no unschooling parent ever thought about that, or they don't care
about college, or are just too lazy to do the work to tutor their kids
straight into college.
It's not that we wouldn't buy them great helmets if they want them, and when
they were littler they always owned them, and if they visited where parents
insisted, they took their equipment.
Sandra
loose the battle for sure. >>
We chose not to have a battle.
We've never been wishy washy about it.
<< Helmets are expensive but my kids head is well worth protecting.>>
Mine aren't.
NOT REALLY.
But isn't that the implication when someone says "my kids are worth it"?
Like "We would unschool, but we want our kids to go to college."
As though no unschooling parent ever thought about that, or they don't care
about college, or are just too lazy to do the work to tutor their kids
straight into college.
It's not that we wouldn't buy them great helmets if they want them, and when
they were littler they always owned them, and if they visited where parents
insisted, they took their equipment.
Sandra
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema
We don't use safety gear at home, but if the kids are going out where the
cops will be, I ask them to put it on. Fines get expensive.
For what it's worth, we have an ATV (a four wheeled motorized
scooter/motorthing) for upcountry. It can go maybe 35 miles an hour on
roads that are rutted, potholed, cow pattied, dip-shouldered, narrow,
muddy, etc. We don't even own a helmet for it and nobody's gotten hurt -
because we know how to handle ourselves - and if things get out of control,
then we'll handle that too if it comes. Life is not safe and it's a waste
of time pretending it ever will be.
Did you wear a bike helmet when you were a little kid? I know I didn't and
am still breathing.
Well, except this cold has me a touch congested...
HeidiWD
cops will be, I ask them to put it on. Fines get expensive.
For what it's worth, we have an ATV (a four wheeled motorized
scooter/motorthing) for upcountry. It can go maybe 35 miles an hour on
roads that are rutted, potholed, cow pattied, dip-shouldered, narrow,
muddy, etc. We don't even own a helmet for it and nobody's gotten hurt -
because we know how to handle ourselves - and if things get out of control,
then we'll handle that too if it comes. Life is not safe and it's a waste
of time pretending it ever will be.
Did you wear a bike helmet when you were a little kid? I know I didn't and
am still breathing.
Well, except this cold has me a touch congested...
HeidiWD
*Michele*
Have you ever seen a child in the dead of summer, heat index at 100 or more
with a helmet, knee pads, wrist protector, ect. sweating his or her little brains out?
If you live on a side road away from traffic, what is the harm. If you are riding your bike in traffic, by all means wear protective gear, at least when it's not hot. ;~)
Michele
a woman who has survived many years without all the gear
*************************************************************************************************
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema <heidi@...> wrote:We don't use safety gear at home, but if the kids are going out where the
cops will be, I ask them to put it on. Fines get expensive.
For what it's worth, we have an ATV (a four wheeled motorized
scooter/motorthing) for upcountry. It can go maybe 35 miles an hour on
roads that are rutted, potholed, cow pattied, dip-shouldered, narrow,
muddy, etc. We don't even own a helmet for it and nobody's gotten hurt -
because we know how to handle ourselves - and if things get out of control,
then we'll handle that too if it comes. Life is not safe and it's a waste
of time pretending it ever will be.
Did you wear a bike helmet when you were a little kid? I know I didn't and
am still breathing.
Well, except this cold has me a touch congested...
HeidiWD
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
with a helmet, knee pads, wrist protector, ect. sweating his or her little brains out?
If you live on a side road away from traffic, what is the harm. If you are riding your bike in traffic, by all means wear protective gear, at least when it's not hot. ;~)
Michele
a woman who has survived many years without all the gear
*************************************************************************************************
Heidi Wordhouse-Dykema <heidi@...> wrote:We don't use safety gear at home, but if the kids are going out where the
cops will be, I ask them to put it on. Fines get expensive.
For what it's worth, we have an ATV (a four wheeled motorized
scooter/motorthing) for upcountry. It can go maybe 35 miles an hour on
roads that are rutted, potholed, cow pattied, dip-shouldered, narrow,
muddy, etc. We don't even own a helmet for it and nobody's gotten hurt -
because we know how to handle ourselves - and if things get out of control,
then we'll handle that too if it comes. Life is not safe and it's a waste
of time pretending it ever will be.
Did you wear a bike helmet when you were a little kid? I know I didn't and
am still breathing.
Well, except this cold has me a touch congested...
HeidiWD
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Nora or Devereaux Cannon
I flat ignore (to discourage) most of it. Unless you have a law
problem or an unusual activity planned, there is no reason to put
the impediment of fear between a kid and physical activity.
Granted, I am not on a high accident type street or anything, but
really - what's the risk versus the benefit? Ours likes the KEWL
helmets - and I make sure she always has the one she wants -
because there is SOME benefit, but if it became a hassle rather
than a hat we would drop it.
I do insist that if we spelunk she wear a helmet and that when we
try a new or unfamiliar type thing she follow the safety rules to
the utmost until she knows the risks - but that's like training
wheels on a bike.
problem or an unusual activity planned, there is no reason to put
the impediment of fear between a kid and physical activity.
Granted, I am not on a high accident type street or anything, but
really - what's the risk versus the benefit? Ours likes the KEWL
helmets - and I make sure she always has the one she wants -
because there is SOME benefit, but if it became a hassle rather
than a hat we would drop it.
I do insist that if we spelunk she wear a helmet and that when we
try a new or unfamiliar type thing she follow the safety rules to
the utmost until she knows the risks - but that's like training
wheels on a bike.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] safety equipment
| I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment
for biking,
| skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of
resistance to this.
|
| Mary Ellen
|
|
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please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll
(fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener
(HEM-Editor@...).
|
| To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or
address an email to:
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
|
|
|
Shyrley
nellebelle wrote:
I explain its the law here.
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for biking,Well, we didn't use bike helmets back home but we do in Virginia cos its the state law that under 14's must do.
> skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
>
> Mary Ellen
>
I explain its the law here.
Shyrley
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
I don't think it's the law here, but it is pushed heavily by the health
department. There are frequent helmet fitting clinics and helmet
give-aways. In our neighborhood, I see kids both with and without helmets.
She has worn a helmet for biking, skating, and scootering since she began
those activities, so it's not something new that I'm asking. I wear a
helmet when I do them too. The only reason I do is to set an example for
the kids. I feel it is unfair to insist they do it if I'm not willing to.
She doesn't like that it makes her head "look big". I said maybe she can
develop a helmet that protects, but is tiny like a hat. She also doesn't
like that way it feels. She is one of those kids who is sensitive to how
things feel. We usually need to cut tags off clothes, etc. Maybe there are
better helmets out there. I have not ever worn one that didn't bother me
around my neck. I know how to fit the helmets as I've been to a couple of
the clinics and have really worked at adjusting the straps and padding
inside.
Has anyone found a brand of helmet that actually feels good?
I had to chuckle when I read the post about kids wearing helmets all the
time to protect their heads. Today the kids were playing on the swingset in
a wild way. Lisa bumped her head onto the hanging bar. I joked that maybe
she should wear a helmet while playing on the swingset :-)
Mary Ellen
department. There are frequent helmet fitting clinics and helmet
give-aways. In our neighborhood, I see kids both with and without helmets.
She has worn a helmet for biking, skating, and scootering since she began
those activities, so it's not something new that I'm asking. I wear a
helmet when I do them too. The only reason I do is to set an example for
the kids. I feel it is unfair to insist they do it if I'm not willing to.
She doesn't like that it makes her head "look big". I said maybe she can
develop a helmet that protects, but is tiny like a hat. She also doesn't
like that way it feels. She is one of those kids who is sensitive to how
things feel. We usually need to cut tags off clothes, etc. Maybe there are
better helmets out there. I have not ever worn one that didn't bother me
around my neck. I know how to fit the helmets as I've been to a couple of
the clinics and have really worked at adjusting the straps and padding
inside.
Has anyone found a brand of helmet that actually feels good?
I had to chuckle when I read the post about kids wearing helmets all the
time to protect their heads. Today the kids were playing on the swingset in
a wild way. Lisa bumped her head onto the hanging bar. I joked that maybe
she should wear a helmet while playing on the swingset :-)
Mary Ellen
coyote's corner
I feel the same way. Brianna hates the helmet. Absolutely hates it. So do I.
I resent that I have to wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle.
Brianna says the helmet bothers her. From the time she was born, she's hated
anything on her head!! Once in a great while, in a down pour or very, very
cold temps, she'll wear a hat.
Boy, do I get looks and 'lessons' from others.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 6:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] safety equipment
In a message dated 3/21/03 3:21:03 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for
biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
Whenever I say so in public like this I get hooted at by moms who absolutely
DO require it and want everyone else to also. Then the others who don't
require it are afraid to say so.
So I can venture to speak for some who will be too afraid to do so and say
than when our kids were little we bought them pads and helmets (and bikes
and
skates) but the only time they had to wear the stuff was when they were with
another kid whose parents made him wear it.
We always expected that Marty would be injured a time or three in his
childhood, as he's so much like his dad, who had several broken bones and a
hospitalization as a kid.
Marty is fourteen, adult-sized, and has a 1" scar on his side from walking
behind a wooden fence and scraping on a nail. Period. He fell and scraped
the side of his hand one day, skating back from the grocery store on an
errand for me. I felt bad. It didn't need a doctor.
Those who want to defend forcing kids to use safety equipment may commence
to
tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I resent that I have to wear a helmet when I ride a motorcycle.
Brianna says the helmet bothers her. From the time she was born, she's hated
anything on her head!! Once in a great while, in a down pour or very, very
cold temps, she'll wear a hat.
Boy, do I get looks and 'lessons' from others.
Janis
Coyotes Corner
Very Cool Stuff for the World
<www.coyotescorner.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: SandraDodd@... [mailto:SandraDodd@...]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 6:39 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] safety equipment
In a message dated 3/21/03 3:21:03 PM, nellebelle@... writes:
<< I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment for
biking,
skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistance to this.
>>We don't require any.
Whenever I say so in public like this I get hooted at by moms who absolutely
DO require it and want everyone else to also. Then the others who don't
require it are afraid to say so.
So I can venture to speak for some who will be too afraid to do so and say
than when our kids were little we bought them pads and helmets (and bikes
and
skates) but the only time they had to wear the stuff was when they were with
another kid whose parents made him wear it.
We always expected that Marty would be injured a time or three in his
childhood, as he's so much like his dad, who had several broken bones and a
hospitalization as a kid.
Marty is fourteen, adult-sized, and has a 1" scar on his side from walking
behind a wooden fence and scraping on a nail. Period. He fell and scraped
the side of his hand one day, skating back from the grocery store on an
errand for me. I felt bad. It didn't need a doctor.
Those who want to defend forcing kids to use safety equipment may commence
to
tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=246920.2960106.4328965.2848452/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1481646/R=0/*http://www.gotomypc.com/u/tr/yh/cpm/grp/300_flake/g22lp
?Target=mm/g22lp.tmpl>
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/21/03 6:41:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
from the time they were sitting in the bike seat as infants/toddlers. It is
a habit now. My dh and I always wear one as well. Although I know that
doesn't help you with your situation.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> Those who want to defend forcing kids to use safety equipment may commenceI guess I don't have to force my children. They have always worn a helmet,
> to
> tell me what I've already heard two dozen times now.
>
>
from the time they were sitting in the bike seat as infants/toddlers. It is
a habit now. My dh and I always wear one as well. Although I know that
doesn't help you with your situation.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
I just needed to chime in here.
All of my kids who are older now,
all have stated to me that helmets
and safety gear aren't cool, and also
I had to hear nobody else wears them.
Last summer a boy came running to our
yard and told us our son had fallen
backwards on a pogo stick, hit his head
and was laying in the street and couldn't
get up.
Needless to say, it scared the hell out of him.
He had a huge bump, and was fine after a day.
I commented to him, it might have been better
to look a little uncool vs. a skull fracture.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
All of my kids who are older now,
all have stated to me that helmets
and safety gear aren't cool, and also
I had to hear nobody else wears them.
Last summer a boy came running to our
yard and told us our son had fallen
backwards on a pogo stick, hit his head
and was laying in the street and couldn't
get up.
Needless to say, it scared the hell out of him.
He had a huge bump, and was fine after a day.
I commented to him, it might have been better
to look a little uncool vs. a skull fracture.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sorcha
I loved riding my bike when I was a kid, and when I turned twelve I got
the most awesome bike for my birthday. I was so excited because it was
much nicer than the one I'd had since I was eight. Well, I'm not sure
what happened one day that summer, except I was unconscious in the
middle of the road when a neighbor found me and took me home. I was
"fine" a little while later (no concussion) and the only thing wrong was
some skin scraped off my left leg. But I never got on a bike again. I
just couldn't do it. A few years later my parents sold it at a garage
sale, and when I went to college they asked if I wanted another one (a
lot of people rode bikes on my campus because the campus is so huge). I
would rather walk. To this day, I would rather walk and I have no
intention of ever riding a bike again.
So my kids don't see me wearing safety gear, but then, they won't see me
riding either. My son got a bike last spring when he turned 4 and he
didn't like the helmet because at that time he had a tumor on his neck
and the strap rubbed against it. The tumor has since been removed and
he's been riding the bike on our porch and in our home with no helmet
(yes, I let him ride indoors).
Now that it's spring again, I'll probably buy him another helmet because
I'm pretty sure it's the law. Then again, I do see kids without
helmets, so if he still doesn't like wearing one, I will probably not
force the issue. But when he's old enough to ride a bigger bike, and
without training wheels, I'll tell him about the accident I had as a kid
and let him make an informed decision whether he wants to risk injury or
wear the helmet. I'm not completely convinced that little piece of
plastic and foam would really make that much difference though. Could
it possibly give kids false confidence? Are there statistics somewhere
about head injuries before and after the helmet laws? Maybe I'll look
that up.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
the most awesome bike for my birthday. I was so excited because it was
much nicer than the one I'd had since I was eight. Well, I'm not sure
what happened one day that summer, except I was unconscious in the
middle of the road when a neighbor found me and took me home. I was
"fine" a little while later (no concussion) and the only thing wrong was
some skin scraped off my left leg. But I never got on a bike again. I
just couldn't do it. A few years later my parents sold it at a garage
sale, and when I went to college they asked if I wanted another one (a
lot of people rode bikes on my campus because the campus is so huge). I
would rather walk. To this day, I would rather walk and I have no
intention of ever riding a bike again.
So my kids don't see me wearing safety gear, but then, they won't see me
riding either. My son got a bike last spring when he turned 4 and he
didn't like the helmet because at that time he had a tumor on his neck
and the strap rubbed against it. The tumor has since been removed and
he's been riding the bike on our porch and in our home with no helmet
(yes, I let him ride indoors).
Now that it's spring again, I'll probably buy him another helmet because
I'm pretty sure it's the law. Then again, I do see kids without
helmets, so if he still doesn't like wearing one, I will probably not
force the issue. But when he's old enough to ride a bigger bike, and
without training wheels, I'll tell him about the accident I had as a kid
and let him make an informed decision whether he wants to risk injury or
wear the helmet. I'm not completely convinced that little piece of
plastic and foam would really make that much difference though. Could
it possibly give kids false confidence? Are there statistics somewhere
about head injuries before and after the helmet laws? Maybe I'll look
that up.
Sorcha
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma *
>>I commented to him, it might have been betterto look a little uncool vs. a skull fracture.>>
So does he wear his helmet on the pogo stick now? Just curious.
My kids always wore helmets when they were younger. When they first learned
to rollerblade they wore helmets, pads and wrist guards. As they got more
proficient the pads were dropped and they wore just helmets and wrist
guards. It was never a big deal, all the kids wore them. Now they wear
helmets if they're biking or blading on the street. There are lots of hills
here and it's easy to get going really fast. They don't wear them if they're
just fooling around or blading at a flat skating rink. They always like the
wrist guards when blading as they've seen a couple friends with broken
wrists.
Casey has never had an injury. Conor has had two concussions. One happened
when a neighbor pushed him off a little snow bank onto the driveway. The
other was while he was snowboarding with his helmet. We were all glad he had
the helmet on that day. It could have been much worse. I got that helmet at
a garage sale and he chose to wear it.
That's our story. I guess the answer is "It depends."
Life is good.
~Mary
"The miracle is not to walk on water. The miracle is to walk on the green
earth, dwelling deeply in the present moment and feeling truly alive."
~ Thich Nhat Hanh
_________________________________________________________________
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the_clevengers
--- In [email protected], "nellebelle"
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
I believe it's the law here, but regardless we do it ourselves and
our kids wear them too. Then again, we bicycle a lot, and use bikes
as a basic mode of transportation. That means we're often on roads
with cars and we put a lot of mileage on our bikes. It's never been
an issue as the kids see us wearing helmets as well and they just
buckle up. We did take them to the store and let them pick their own
helmets out - they see a lot of triathletes and others of my friends
who all use helmets as well, so they each chose racing-style helmets
which I guess look "cool" to them, and similar to all the athletes in
my triathlon magazines.
I guess if it got to be an issue, I'd discuss my own trial-and-error
approach to learning about safety gear and maybe hope they'd learn
from that. I used to ride my motorcycle with no helmet and in jeans
and t-shirts and after a couple of accidents myself (one involving
3rd degree burns from my muffler) and a friend whose jaw and head
were shattered in a motorcycling accident (no helmet) I now wear a
full-face helmet and a full leather riding suit.
I think it helps that my kids see me do a lot of "high risk" sports
(skydiving, motorcycling, bicycling, flying, scuba) and they see the
safety precautions I take. I talk with the kids about the things I
do, and the friends I've seen be seriously injured and die, and the
risk vs. hassle evaluations I make for my own personal safety on each
piece of safety equipment. With a few concussions, a dozen broken
bones, and hundreds of stitches under my belt, I've learned a few
lessons the hard way :-) I hope my kids don't have to do that, but I
know that mortality and possible injury seem like such remote
possibilities when you're young and bulletproof, so chances are that
they will :-)
My daughter's the adventurous one, and she already endo'd her bike
and landed on her head on a rock last year. She scraped her nose and
dented the helmet, but that was all. So she got to see that what
happened to the helmet would've been her head. And yes, we bought a
new helmet.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
<nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment forbiking,
> skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of resistanceto this.
I believe it's the law here, but regardless we do it ourselves and
our kids wear them too. Then again, we bicycle a lot, and use bikes
as a basic mode of transportation. That means we're often on roads
with cars and we put a lot of mileage on our bikes. It's never been
an issue as the kids see us wearing helmets as well and they just
buckle up. We did take them to the store and let them pick their own
helmets out - they see a lot of triathletes and others of my friends
who all use helmets as well, so they each chose racing-style helmets
which I guess look "cool" to them, and similar to all the athletes in
my triathlon magazines.
I guess if it got to be an issue, I'd discuss my own trial-and-error
approach to learning about safety gear and maybe hope they'd learn
from that. I used to ride my motorcycle with no helmet and in jeans
and t-shirts and after a couple of accidents myself (one involving
3rd degree burns from my muffler) and a friend whose jaw and head
were shattered in a motorcycling accident (no helmet) I now wear a
full-face helmet and a full leather riding suit.
I think it helps that my kids see me do a lot of "high risk" sports
(skydiving, motorcycling, bicycling, flying, scuba) and they see the
safety precautions I take. I talk with the kids about the things I
do, and the friends I've seen be seriously injured and die, and the
risk vs. hassle evaluations I make for my own personal safety on each
piece of safety equipment. With a few concussions, a dozen broken
bones, and hundreds of stitches under my belt, I've learned a few
lessons the hard way :-) I hope my kids don't have to do that, but I
know that mortality and possible injury seem like such remote
possibilities when you're young and bulletproof, so chances are that
they will :-)
My daughter's the adventurous one, and she already endo'd her bike
and landed on her head on a rock last year. She scraped her nose and
dented the helmet, but that was all. So she got to see that what
happened to the helmet would've been her head. And yes, we bought a
new helmet.
Blue Skies,
-Robin-
kayb85
My kids usually have a helmet on when riding a bike. The fine in PA
is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
plus court costs.
It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
we do...
Sheila
--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers"
<diamondair@e...> wrote:
is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
plus court costs.
It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
we do...
Sheila
--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers"
<diamondair@e...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "nellebelle"for
> <nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> > I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment
> biking,resistance
> > skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of
> to this.bikes
>
>
> I believe it's the law here, but regardless we do it ourselves and
> our kids wear them too. Then again, we bicycle a lot, and use
> as a basic mode of transportation. That means we're often on roadsbeen
> with cars and we put a lot of mileage on our bikes. It's never
> an issue as the kids see us wearing helmets as well and they justown
> buckle up. We did take them to the store and let them pick their
> helmets out - they see a lot of triathletes and others of myfriends
> who all use helmets as well, so they each chose racing-stylehelmets
> which I guess look "cool" to them, and similar to all the athletesin
> my triathlon magazines.error
>
> I guess if it got to be an issue, I'd discuss my own trial-and-
> approach to learning about safety gear and maybe hope they'd learnjeans
> from that. I used to ride my motorcycle with no helmet and in
> and t-shirts and after a couple of accidents myself (one involvingsports
> 3rd degree burns from my muffler) and a friend whose jaw and head
> were shattered in a motorcycling accident (no helmet) I now wear a
> full-face helmet and a full leather riding suit.
>
> I think it helps that my kids see me do a lot of "high risk"
> (skydiving, motorcycling, bicycling, flying, scuba) and they seethe
> safety precautions I take. I talk with the kids about the things Ithe
> do, and the friends I've seen be seriously injured and die, and
> risk vs. hassle evaluations I make for my own personal safety oneach
> piece of safety equipment. With a few concussions, a dozen brokenI
> bones, and hundreds of stitches under my belt, I've learned a few
> lessons the hard way :-) I hope my kids don't have to do that, but
> know that mortality and possible injury seem like such remotethat
> possibilities when you're young and bulletproof, so chances are
> they will :-)and
>
> My daughter's the adventurous one, and she already endo'd her bike
> and landed on her head on a rock last year. She scraped her nose
> dented the helmet, but that was all. So she got to see that whata
> happened to the helmet would've been her head. And yes, we bought
> new helmet.
>
> Blue Skies,
>
> -Robin-
kayb85
My kids usually have a helmet on when riding a bike. The fine in PA
is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
plus court costs.
It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
we do...
Sheila
--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers"
<diamondair@e...> wrote:
is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
plus court costs.
It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
we do...
Sheila
--- In [email protected], "the_clevengers"
<diamondair@e...> wrote:
> --- In [email protected], "nellebelle"for
> <nellebelle@c...> wrote:
> > I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment
> biking,resistance
> > skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of
> to this.bikes
>
>
> I believe it's the law here, but regardless we do it ourselves and
> our kids wear them too. Then again, we bicycle a lot, and use
> as a basic mode of transportation. That means we're often on roadsbeen
> with cars and we put a lot of mileage on our bikes. It's never
> an issue as the kids see us wearing helmets as well and they justown
> buckle up. We did take them to the store and let them pick their
> helmets out - they see a lot of triathletes and others of myfriends
> who all use helmets as well, so they each chose racing-stylehelmets
> which I guess look "cool" to them, and similar to all the athletesin
> my triathlon magazines.error
>
> I guess if it got to be an issue, I'd discuss my own trial-and-
> approach to learning about safety gear and maybe hope they'd learnjeans
> from that. I used to ride my motorcycle with no helmet and in
> and t-shirts and after a couple of accidents myself (one involvingsports
> 3rd degree burns from my muffler) and a friend whose jaw and head
> were shattered in a motorcycling accident (no helmet) I now wear a
> full-face helmet and a full leather riding suit.
>
> I think it helps that my kids see me do a lot of "high risk"
> (skydiving, motorcycling, bicycling, flying, scuba) and they seethe
> safety precautions I take. I talk with the kids about the things Ithe
> do, and the friends I've seen be seriously injured and die, and
> risk vs. hassle evaluations I make for my own personal safety oneach
> piece of safety equipment. With a few concussions, a dozen brokenI
> bones, and hundreds of stitches under my belt, I've learned a few
> lessons the hard way :-) I hope my kids don't have to do that, but
> know that mortality and possible injury seem like such remotethat
> possibilities when you're young and bulletproof, so chances are
> they will :-)and
>
> My daughter's the adventurous one, and she already endo'd her bike
> and landed on her head on a rock last year. She scraped her nose
> dented the helmet, but that was all. So she got to see that whata
> happened to the helmet would've been her head. And yes, we bought
> new helmet.
>
> Blue Skies,
>
> -Robin-
Mary
From: kayb85
<<My kids usually have a helmet on when riding a bike. The fine in PA
is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
plus court costs.
It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
we do...>>
Do they really catch you and fine you there? I'm asking because we have a law and fines here too. My kids really don't ride bikes or roller skate, but when they did ride, they never wore helmits. We've never run into any problems. All the neighborhood kids that ride never wear helmits and neither do the people I see in the park here. Can't imagine them all doing that if they keep getting caught. Would be expensive after a while. Just wondering if the law is really enforced?
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<My kids usually have a helmet on when riding a bike. The fine in PA
is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
plus court costs.
It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
we do...>>
Do they really catch you and fine you there? I'm asking because we have a law and fines here too. My kids really don't ride bikes or roller skate, but when they did ride, they never wore helmits. We've never run into any problems. All the neighborhood kids that ride never wear helmits and neither do the people I see in the park here. Can't imagine them all doing that if they keep getting caught. Would be expensive after a while. Just wondering if the law is really enforced?
Mary B
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kayb85
> Do they really catch you and fine you there? I'm asking becausewe have a law and fines here too. My kids really don't ride bikes or
roller skate, but when they did ride, they never wore helmits. We've
never run into any problems. All the neighborhood kids that ride
never wear helmits and neither do the people I see in the park here.
Can't imagine them all doing that if they keep getting caught. Would
be expensive after a while. Just wondering if the law is really
enforced?
>Actually, no, a big percent of kids don't wear helmets and I've
> Mary B
never heard of anyone getting fined over it. Good point.
Sheila
Dawn Ackroyd
I don't know. After watching my BIL last year recover from a bike
accident, I don't know if it is worth not wearing a helmet. He was
riding in the mountains with a bunch of Scouts. They got back to their
cars and were fooling around in the parking lot. They had taken helmets
and the rest off. My BIL is a big kid and a very very good biker. He was
on the Canadian National Bike Team and trained for the Olympics. Anyway,
he went over the front of his bike and landed on his face. He got a
concussion and had to have plastic surgery on his face to get everything
back in place. He was off work for almost 3 weeks because of it. He had
major damage to his teeth and mouth.
After that experience I'm pretty committed to safety equipment -
especially on bikes and other things with wheels!
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Nora or Devereaux Cannon [mailto:dcannon@...]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] safety equipment
I flat ignore (to discourage) most of it. Unless you have a law
problem or an unusual activity planned, there is no reason to put
the impediment of fear between a kid and physical activity.
Granted, I am not on a high accident type street or anything, but
really - what's the risk versus the benefit? Ours likes the KEWL
helmets - and I make sure she always has the one she wants -
because there is SOME benefit, but if it became a hassle rather
than a hat we would drop it.
I do insist that if we spelunk she wear a helmet and that when we
try a new or unfamiliar type thing she follow the safety rules to
the utmost until she knows the risks - but that's like training
wheels on a bike.
accident, I don't know if it is worth not wearing a helmet. He was
riding in the mountains with a bunch of Scouts. They got back to their
cars and were fooling around in the parking lot. They had taken helmets
and the rest off. My BIL is a big kid and a very very good biker. He was
on the Canadian National Bike Team and trained for the Olympics. Anyway,
he went over the front of his bike and landed on his face. He got a
concussion and had to have plastic surgery on his face to get everything
back in place. He was off work for almost 3 weeks because of it. He had
major damage to his teeth and mouth.
After that experience I'm pretty committed to safety equipment -
especially on bikes and other things with wheels!
Dawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Nora or Devereaux Cannon [mailto:dcannon@...]
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 7:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] safety equipment
I flat ignore (to discourage) most of it. Unless you have a law
problem or an unusual activity planned, there is no reason to put
the impediment of fear between a kid and physical activity.
Granted, I am not on a high accident type street or anything, but
really - what's the risk versus the benefit? Ours likes the KEWL
helmets - and I make sure she always has the one she wants -
because there is SOME benefit, but if it became a hassle rather
than a hat we would drop it.
I do insist that if we spelunk she wear a helmet and that when we
try a new or unfamiliar type thing she follow the safety rules to
the utmost until she knows the risks - but that's like training
wheels on a bike.
----- Original Message -----
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 21, 2003 4:14 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] safety equipment
| I am wondering how others handle the issue of safety equipment
for biking,
| skating, or scootering. My 10yod is putting up a lot of
resistance to this.
|
| Mary Ellen
|
|
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary
From: kayb85
<<Actually, no, a big percent of kids don't wear helmets and I've
never heard of anyone getting fined over it. Good point.>>
How embarrassing!! The whole post I spelled helmets, helmits!!! Thought it looked weird. Kept wondering why I was thinking of crabs whenever I saw the word!!! (hermits)
Mary B (I've had a rough day!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
<<Actually, no, a big percent of kids don't wear helmets and I've
never heard of anyone getting fined over it. Good point.>>
How embarrassing!! The whole post I spelled helmets, helmits!!! Thought it looked weird. Kept wondering why I was thinking of crabs whenever I saw the word!!! (hermits)
Mary B (I've had a rough day!)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
Dawn Ackroyd wrote:
Having trwaled through the arguments many times (I cycle 100 miles a week and don't wear one) I discovered a few interesting things. Firstly, in any country where helemts are made mandatory, cycling
goes down. Since Govt's are trying to encourage cycling before we all tunr into spherical couch potatoes choking on car pollution, this seems a bit silly. they do better to make drivers ed compuslsory.
many drivers do not realise that the law in all 50 states (and in the UK and Canada) says that bicycles are vehicles and have a right to the road. The DMV manual tells them to pass a cyclist at 3 feet.
So far I've never encountered anyone doing this. This makes the road dangerous for me. Cycling isn't dangerous, its those morons who are.
With regards to helmets. A study on car accidents found that a driver involved in an accident was more likely to suffer head injuries than a cyclist in an accident - the most common cycling injusr (if
you are not squashed flat which no helemt is gonna save you from...) is broekn collar bone. Given that there are 40,000 motorist deaths in this country every year, and many many more non-fatal accidents
it seems to me than in order to cut down on head injuries, it is the motorist who should be wearing a helmet.
Can you imagine the fuss if a motorist was made to wear a helmet? Being surrounded by 2 tons of metal makes them feel safe and more likely to take risks and therefore results in more head injuries.
Having said all that, I sometimes wear a helmet in the winter when I'm cycling in the dark. I do this for two reasons. First, I'm more likely to skid on ice and fall off and second, it gives me more
places to put my reflective stickers and hopefully be seen and not run over by some woman yapping on a cell phone rather than paying attention to the road. The rest of the year I don't wear one.
Shyrley the cycling nut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> I don't know. After watching my BIL last year recover from a bikeThere are many arguments both for and against bike helmets. It sounds like a helmet wouldn't have protected your brother as they do not cover the mouth area.
> accident, I don't know if it is worth not wearing a helmet. He was
> riding in the mountains with a bunch of Scouts. They got back to their
> cars and were fooling around in the parking lot. They had taken helmets
> and the rest off. My BIL is a big kid and a very very good biker. He was
> on the Canadian National Bike Team and trained for the Olympics. Anyway,
> he went over the front of his bike and landed on his face. He got a
> concussion and had to have plastic surgery on his face to get everything
> back in place. He was off work for almost 3 weeks because of it. He had
> major damage to his teeth and mouth.
>
> After that experience I'm pretty committed to safety equipment -
> especially on bikes and other things with wheels!
>
> Dawn
>
Having trwaled through the arguments many times (I cycle 100 miles a week and don't wear one) I discovered a few interesting things. Firstly, in any country where helemts are made mandatory, cycling
goes down. Since Govt's are trying to encourage cycling before we all tunr into spherical couch potatoes choking on car pollution, this seems a bit silly. they do better to make drivers ed compuslsory.
many drivers do not realise that the law in all 50 states (and in the UK and Canada) says that bicycles are vehicles and have a right to the road. The DMV manual tells them to pass a cyclist at 3 feet.
So far I've never encountered anyone doing this. This makes the road dangerous for me. Cycling isn't dangerous, its those morons who are.
With regards to helmets. A study on car accidents found that a driver involved in an accident was more likely to suffer head injuries than a cyclist in an accident - the most common cycling injusr (if
you are not squashed flat which no helemt is gonna save you from...) is broekn collar bone. Given that there are 40,000 motorist deaths in this country every year, and many many more non-fatal accidents
it seems to me than in order to cut down on head injuries, it is the motorist who should be wearing a helmet.
Can you imagine the fuss if a motorist was made to wear a helmet? Being surrounded by 2 tons of metal makes them feel safe and more likely to take risks and therefore results in more head injuries.
Having said all that, I sometimes wear a helmet in the winter when I'm cycling in the dark. I do this for two reasons. First, I'm more likely to skid on ice and fall off and second, it gives me more
places to put my reflective stickers and hopefully be seen and not run over by some woman yapping on a cell phone rather than paying attention to the road. The rest of the year I don't wear one.
Shyrley the cycling nut
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/2003 11:19:08 AM Central Standard Time,
zenmomma@... writes:
have one without some head gear.
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
zenmomma@... writes:
> So does he wear his helmet on the pogo stick now? Just curious.It wasn't his pogo stick, as I would never have let him
have one without some head gear.
Linda
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[email protected]
In a message dated 3/23/03 8:02:26 AM, shyrley.williams@... writes:
<< Can you imagine the fuss if a motorist was made to wear a helmet? >>
I believe they would say it restricts their vision.
And I think they would be right.
And I think bicyclists vision is restricted too.
It's good for racing, no doubt, when people need NOT to look back or look
around, and there's not likely to be a truck trying to make a right turn
where they're cycling.
Sandra
<< Can you imagine the fuss if a motorist was made to wear a helmet? >>
I believe they would say it restricts their vision.
And I think they would be right.
And I think bicyclists vision is restricted too.
It's good for racing, no doubt, when people need NOT to look back or look
around, and there's not likely to be a truck trying to make a right turn
where they're cycling.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/23/03 12:03:28 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I believe they would say it restricts their vision.
And I think they would be right.
And I think bicyclists vision is restricted too. >>
No, it doesn't restrict your vision at all.
And after almost being hit and dh actually getting hit once, we are VERY sure
to have helmets at all times.
An 11 year old neighbor boy was killed by a motorist when we lived in WA.
He would have survived if he'd had a helmet on. Bicycles and cars are not a
good mix, helmets are important in my book.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< I believe they would say it restricts their vision.
And I think they would be right.
And I think bicyclists vision is restricted too. >>
No, it doesn't restrict your vision at all.
And after almost being hit and dh actually getting hit once, we are VERY sure
to have helmets at all times.
An 11 year old neighbor boy was killed by a motorist when we lived in WA.
He would have survived if he'd had a helmet on. Bicycles and cars are not a
good mix, helmets are important in my book.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/22/2003 2:12:13 PM Central Standard Time, sheran@...
writes:
Does this include adults as well?
They LOL I assume anyone that ride a Harely motorcycle is
helmeted also?
What state is this?
Linda
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> My kids usually have a helmet on when riding a bike. The fine in PAI can't believe this. But I suppose its for the best.
> is $25 plus court costs for kids under 12, so if our family is out
> bike riding and we get caught without helmets, we have to pay $75
> plus court costs.
>
> It's like living in a police state and it sucks, but what are you
> gonna do? We do not have as much freedom as people sometimes claim
> we do...
>
> Sheila
>
Does this include adults as well?
They LOL I assume anyone that ride a Harely motorcycle is
helmeted also?
What state is this?
Linda
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