Connie Stillwell

I have been talking with the children one on one when there is an "issue". I find that by doing this there is no need for a punishment. My dh thinks that there must be a punishment in order for the children to learn the lesson. I feel like putting a cute picture on the wall that also says, Parents who punish their kids, do not know How to solve the problem.

I do not even know what to punish the kids with. I can't ground them because that is keeping them and rest of the family from society (learning opportunities), I can't ground them from tv (learning opportunities) , I can't ground them from the computer, etc..

I am open to all suggestions, and please tell me what I NEED to hear not what you think I WANT to hear.

Thank you,

Connie


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/03 11:23:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

> My dh thinks that there must be a punishment in order for the children to
> learn the lesson.

I believe when you punish a child they learn to fear the punishment or the
adult that punishes. They do not learn a lesson. They stop doing XYZ because
they have that fear of the punishment. Not what I want for my children. By
talking about other ways to solve problems and helping a child to problem
solve and think things out you are helping them learn to communicate and deal
with problems. And they will be more willing to come to you with problems
and questions, because you are the one that will help.
Just my 2 cents
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Connie Stillwell

Thank you. I am going to print this and "accidently" leave it on top of the sink in dh bathroom. : )





I believe when you punish a child they learn to fear the punishment or the
adult that punishes. They do not learn a lesson. They stop doing XYZ because
they have that fear of the punishment. Not what I want for my children. By
talking about other ways to solve problems and helping a child to problem
solve and think things out you are helping them learn to communicate and deal
with problems. And they will be more willing to come to you with problems
and questions, because you are the one that will help.
Just my 2 cents
Pam G.





"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/03 9:24:24 AM, mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

<< I am open to all suggestions, and please tell me what I NEED to hear not
what you think I WANT to hear. >>

Well you could jokingly tell your husband that their punishment is having to
hear you talk about it for half an hour.

But seriously, ask him whether punishments changed his life in good ways, or
whether he does what he does now because he knows it's just better to do the
right thing.

When kids are "punishment trained" it makes them sneaky and gives them real
reasons to lie. When they're punishment trained it often means "This is
wrong if you get caught," rather than "this is wrong because it's harmful to
others or to property or makes me a lesser person than I would be if I had
made a better decision."

One only lasts when parents are around, but the other is for life.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/2003 11:23:48 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

> I am open to all suggestions, and please tell me what I NEED to hear not
> what you think I WANT to hear.
>

Well, this is CERTAINLY the place for THAT! <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Ackroyd

Do they stop doing whatever the 'issue' is? If it works, why change it!
Sounds good to me!

Dawn

-----Original Message-----
From: Connie Stillwell [mailto:mdcrabcakes2000@...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:22 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] questions/punishments



I have been talking with the children one on one when there is an
"issue". I find that by doing this there is no need for a punishment.
My dh thinks that there must be a punishment in order for the children
to learn the lesson. I feel like putting a cute picture on the wall
that also says, Parents who punish their kids, do not know How to solve
the problem.

I do not even know what to punish the kids with. I can't ground them
because that is keeping them and rest of the family from society
(learning opportunities), I can't ground them from tv (learning
opportunities) , I can't ground them from the computer, etc..

I am open to all suggestions, and please tell me what I NEED to hear not
what you think I WANT to hear.

Thank you,

Connie


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want
something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities,
and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane
Goodall


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Web Hosting - establish your business online

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Ackroyd

I've been watching a video tape while I exercise called 'How to Behave
So Your Kids Will Too'. The part I watched today talked about
punishment. He said that punishment doesn't actually reform children. He
didn't say it wasn't appropriate at times, but he said no child starts
excelling or really behaving well because they're really 'punished
well'.

-----Original Message-----
From: genant2@... [mailto:genant2@...]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] questions/punishments


In a message dated 3/17/03 11:23:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

> My dh thinks that there must be a punishment in order for the children
to
> learn the lesson.

I believe when you punish a child they learn to fear the punishment or
the
adult that punishes. They do not learn a lesson. They stop doing XYZ
because
they have that fear of the punishment. Not what I want for my children.
By
talking about other ways to solve problems and helping a child to
problem
solve and think things out you are helping them learn to communicate and
deal
with problems. And they will be more willing to come to you with
problems
and questions, because you are the one that will help.
Just my 2 cents
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have a Nice Day!

I totally agree with Pam. We did the punishment thing. Its not nearly as effective.

Open, honest discussion is where its at...and its THE shortcut to "learning the lesson", not to mention it opens doors to communication, and makes you as the parent approachable with any future problems.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: genant2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 11:41 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] questions/punishments


In a message dated 3/17/03 11:23:53 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

> My dh thinks that there must be a punishment in order for the children to
> learn the lesson.

I believe when you punish a child they learn to fear the punishment or the
adult that punishes. They do not learn a lesson. They stop doing XYZ because
they have that fear of the punishment. Not what I want for my children. By
talking about other ways to solve problems and helping a child to problem
solve and think things out you are helping them learn to communicate and deal
with problems. And they will be more willing to come to you with problems
and questions, because you are the one that will help.
Just my 2 cents
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

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[email protected]

Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com

Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Connie Stillwell

Do they stop doing whatever the 'issue' is? If it works, why change it!
Sounds good to me!

I explained to Amanda (we were alone) that she and I like to be part of a group.We are the type "the more the merrier". I explained that Heather is different than us in that aspect.

I also had this talk alone with Heather. Long story short- Amanda and Heather have been playing YuGiOh cards or whatever it is called together nicely. Amanda has found other things to do while Heather is spending her time alone. They also gave each other a hug before going to bed; this has never happened between the two of them before.

Relationships are improving . Maybe there will be a domino effect here and hubby will jump on board.

Thank you,

Connie


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Bill and Diane

Have a Nice Day! wrote:

>I totally agree with Pam. We did the punishment thing. Its not nearly as effective.
>
>Open, honest discussion is where its at...and its THE shortcut to "learning the lesson", not to mention it opens doors to communication, and makes you as the parent approachable with any future problems.
>

I've also found that punishment breeds a negative, angry, hostile
environment. The kids don't trust each other OR the parents. Discussing
the issues allows each to understand the other's point of view and
respect that. The understanding may not always work, but a respectful
environment is more pleasant for everyone.

I've also had the issue where the kids and I can discuss and cooperate
but then DAD comes in and wants *obedience* and *punishment*. My issue
there is that I don't know what Dad's goals are. I did ask him, though,
who should spank HIM when he did something he knew was wrong.

:-) Diane

Bill and Diane

Connie Stillwell wrote:

>I have been talking with the children one on one when there is an "issue". I find that by doing this there is no need for a punishment. My dh thinks that there must be a punishment in order for the children to learn the lesson. I feel like putting a cute picture on the wall that also says, Parents who punish their kids, do not know How to solve the problem.
>

I also found that in our family it was partly a philosophical problem.
My dh says he does not believe in the concept of win/win. This makes
negotiating very difficult. You may want to talk to your dh about what
his goals are regarding the kids (i.e. having them *want* to live
nearby, having a lot of money, just being *gone* by 18, etc.). You may
find his ideal interaction is very different than yours.

:-) Diane

Connie Stillwell

I was having a discussion about this with my husband and he says that we are a bunch of illogical, bleeding heart women. My dad used to say the same thing.

What you all are saying is the only thing I have found to work. I will not let dh get in the way of my relationship with the children. I am too emotional to make any decisions. But if he isn't willing to put any effort into this I won't be able to stay here. I may need some advice as how to continue unschooling with 4 children and the oldest is 9.

Connie



I've also found that punishment breeds a negative, angry, hostile
environment. The kids don't trust each other OR the parents. Discussing
the issues allows each to understand the other's point of view and
respect that. The understanding may not always work, but a respectful
environment is more pleasant for everyone.

I've also had the issue where the kids and I can discuss and cooperate
but then DAD comes in and wants *obedience* and *punishment*. My issue
there is that I don't know what Dad's goals are. I did ask him, though,
who should spank HIM when he did something he knew was wrong.




"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/17/03 9:47:06 PM, cen46624@... writes:

<< I've also found that punishment breeds a negative, angry, hostile
environment. The kids don't trust each other OR the parents. >>

And in no time, the parents don't trust the kids. For good reason, the kids
get sneaky.

Bad cycle, hard to get out of. Better not to get it started at all.

Sandra

Kathleen Livni

Dear Connie,

Please try to call me tomorrow morning and I will be make myself available
to listen. I drag in the morning so perhaps 9:30 or 10 am would work best
for me.
I intensely resonate with your last post. It sounds painful.

I have been experiencing pain and conflict since the return of my husband
from his 10 day trip away.
Please call if you can, Kathleen 925-944-9993

write if that works better for you. and I don't mind calling you either.
just leave your phone number and 2 different times to call you.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Connie Stillwell" <mdcrabcakes2000@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2003 9:02 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] questions/punishments


>
> I was having a discussion about this with my husband and he says that we
are a bunch of illogical, bleeding heart women. My dad used to say the same
thing.
>
> What you all are saying is the only thing I have found to work. I will
not let dh get in the way of my relationship with the children. I am too
emotional to make any decisions. But if he isn't willing to put any effort
into this I won't be able to stay here. I may need some advice as how to
continue unschooling with 4 children and the oldest is 9.
>
> Connie
>
>
>
> I've also found that punishment breeds a negative, angry, hostile
> environment. The kids don't trust each other OR the parents. Discussing
> the issues allows each to understand the other's point of view and
> respect that. The understanding may not always work, but a respectful
> environment is more pleasant for everyone.
>
> I've also had the issue where the kids and I can discuss and cooperate
> but then DAD comes in and wants *obedience* and *punishment*. My issue
> there is that I don't know what Dad's goals are. I did ask him, though,
> who should spank HIM when he did something he knew was wrong.
>
>
>
>
> "My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
> "And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want
something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and
never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>

Connie Stillwell

Kathleen 925-944-9993

I tried calling you; I left a message on your machine. Maybe we can catch each other later. What state are you in? I have free minutes on cell phone.

Connie


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
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Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/18/03 12:04:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

> I will not let dh get in the way of my relationship with the children. I am
> too emotional to make any decisions.

Take a breath. Think about your goals and your reasons. Have you told him
how you think and why. And how you feel when he says things like bleeding
heart women. What you want for your children right now and how they are
learning to make choices in a safe environment with safe people and how that
will help their decision making abilities later in life when it isn't so safe
and people aren't so safe.
Talking helps when it isn't the heat of the moment. I don't know your
particular situation but it is easier when the two people are calm and can
talk together and think about things.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Connie Stillwell

And how you feel when he says things like bleeding
heart women.

This was the situation:

Dh said that he is not getting enough sleep. He wants kids in their rooms at 7:00pm for quiet time and light out and kids asleep at 8:00. Because I am the mom I am responsible for MAKING the kids fall asleep at 8:00. I told him that is too much for me; I cannot make anybody do anything, but what we could do is have the children go their rooms at 8:00 and tvs have to stay below a volume level where no one outside of the room will hear it. He said he didn't want tvs on all night. I told him I was willing to stay up until all the children were asleep and then turn tvs and lights off. Then he said that come to bed after that he would wake up. I told him I was willing to sleep on the sofa. He said ok to all this. I went to each child seperately and explained that Mike needed more sleep and the solution that we came up with. The children were all in agreement. I also told Dh that we would try for a week and make changes when needed (to let him know that I am flexible here). Everyone was in agreement until Mike went to bed. For no reason whatsoever, he caused chaos with the whole situation. I will stop here cause I am at a pt of calling him names.

Connie

PS the kids are fine-it is the "Man of the house."


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Connie Stillwell

He wants kids in their rooms at 7:00pm for quiet time and light out and kids asleep at 8:00.

I just got off the phone with one of my brother-in-laws. He said this sounds just like Mike and their father. BIL is calling Mike (Dh) this evening to talk with him. Cross fingers all, please.

Connie




"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

>snip.. He wants kids in their rooms at 7:00pm for quiet time and light out
and kids asleep at 8:00>>>

Yes, when we are done playing with them we just put them back in their
cages... I hope the phone call helps.

My dh sometimes says things like the above about bedtime or other parenting
situations. It is usually based on the way he was raised, and usually when
we talk about it he realizes that it isn't a realistic parenting strategy.

Bedtime often becomes the mother's problem, especially if she is sahm and
the father isn't. He *needs* his sleep because he has to go out and support
the family. Never mind that she needs her sleep if she is going to be a
decent parent all day long with no breaks!

I have tried to involve dh in bedtime since the kids were young. Even when
they still nursed to sleep, he would help them get ready for bed (pjs,
teeth, etc.) and lay down with them and read stories while I had a few
minutes to myself in the evening. We still do this most nights. Snuggling
with daddy is one of their favorite parts of the day.

Mary Ellen

Connie Stillwell

Yes, when we are done playing with them we just put them back in their
cages... I hope the phone call helps.

Dan(BIL) says this is not a sleep issue. The real issue is Mike was taught that fathers work and come home to peace and quiet. Kids are to be out of sight and mind. It is as tho it is another job.

Connie


"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall
"And to all young people, in mother's words; 'If you really want something, and really work hard, and take advantage of opportunities, and never give up, you will find a way.' Follow your Dreams." ~ Jane Goodall


---------------------------------
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

nellebelle

----- snip----- The real issue is Mike was taught that fathers work and come
home to peace and quiet. Kids are to be out of sight and mind. It is as
tho it is another job. >>>>

My dh was raised that way also. I am so envious of those who agreed on
ideas such as unschooling before they were even married. These ideas are
new to me and to dh, but I have spent lots of time reading and thinking
about the issues and he hasn't. Even though I share the ideas with him, he
doesn't seek the support of other like minded parents.

For instance, dh loves to play baseball. When he was a kid, it was his mom
who played catch with him and was at all his games. So even though HE is
the one who loves baseball, he expects me to be the one to do baseball with
the kids, because that is what moms do, in his mind. Our 7 yod loves
baseball too. Sunday, dh spent the afternoon playing with her and a couple
of other kids. I made a point to tell him later how glad I was that he'd
made time to do that. He said he was too and it was one of the best Sundays
he'd had in a long time. They also golf together.

But it is always a struggle. His first inclination is usually to parent the
way his father did, which was barely at all.

Mary Ellen

Tia Leschke

> Dan(BIL) says this is not a sleep issue. The real issue is Mike was
taught that fathers work and come home to peace and quiet. Kids are to be
out of sight and mind. It is as tho it is another job.

My question to him would be, "Why have children if you don't want to see or
hear them?"
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/18/2003 12:23:24 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

> Dan(BIL) says this is not a sleep issue. The real issue is Mike was taught
> that fathers work and come home to peace and quiet.

MY upbringing as well---PLUS it had to be a CLEAN house he came home to.
Oddly, my dad couldn't have cared less!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

It's funny (and sometimes not) how two partners come to a relationship
with expectations based on what their parents did. In my family, my
father always went out in the cold to warm up the car and clear off the
snow. I still think of it as dh's job. In his family, his mom did that
and he thinks of it as my job. We both do it depending on who is busy
at the time, but we always joke that it is the woman's job or the man's
job. We do things fairly traditionally here as far as splitting up
household chores, but that is because we each prefer those jobs not
because we have to do those jobs based on our gender. I'd rather do the
laundry any day over getting wood or mowing our lawn ( we mow between 2
and 3 acres depending on how much time dh is home).
Angela in Maine



Mary Ellen wrote:
For instance, dh loves to play baseball. When he was a kid, it was his
mom
who played catch with him and was at all his games. So even though HE
is
the one who loves baseball, he expects me to be the one to do baseball
with
the kids, because that is what moms do, in his mind.
Mary Ellen




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/18/2003 1:20:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:


> My question to him would be, "Why have children if you don't want to see or
> hear them?"
> Tia
>

JEEZUS, Tia---to carry on the family name and to do chores! REALLY, the
questions, here! <g>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Have a Nice Day!

My dh is not very happy with the idea that the kids are up all night watching tv or playing on the pc. Fortunately though, I was always able to intercept his "moods" and tell him not to make it a 'moral' issue.

Our solution was to make sure dh is on one floor and the kids were on another. In other words, when our bedroom was on the main floor, we had the kids watch tv downstairs in the basement and the computer (which is right next to our bedroom door) had to have the speakers off.

NOW, and I'm so thankful for this....we JUST slept in our BRAND SPANKIN new bedroom last night for the first time. l We renovated the garage to make a fourth bedroom. it is in the daylight basement and is VERY quiet. We have the entire downstairs area to ourselves and the kids can be on the main floor and not bother anyone.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: nellebelle
To: [email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2003 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] questions/punishments


----- snip----- The real issue is Mike was taught that fathers work and come
home to peace and quiet. Kids are to be out of sight and mind. It is as
tho it is another job. >>>>

My dh was raised that way also. I am so envious of those who agreed on
ideas such as unschooling before they were even married. These ideas are
new to me and to dh, but I have spent lots of time reading and thinking
about the issues and he hasn't. Even though I share the ideas with him, he
doesn't seek the support of other like minded parents.

For instance, dh loves to play baseball. When he was a kid, it was his mom
who played catch with him and was at all his games. So even though HE is
the one who loves baseball, he expects me to be the one to do baseball with
the kids, because that is what moms do, in his mind. Our 7 yod loves
baseball too. Sunday, dh spent the afternoon playing with her and a couple
of other kids. I made a point to tell him later how glad I was that he'd
made time to do that. He said he was too and it was one of the best Sundays
he'd had in a long time. They also golf together.

But it is always a struggle. His first inclination is usually to parent the
way his father did, which was barely at all.

Mary Ellen


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

This isn't about how I think any individual mother feels, it's an inspired
riff on the idea that moms need sleep too, in cases when dads are baffled AND
tired.

<< Bedtime often becomes the mother's problem, especially if she is sahm and
the father isn't. He *needs* his sleep because he has to go out and support
the family. Never mind that she needs her sleep if she is going to be a
decent parent all day long with no breaks! >>

It IS the mother's "problem" if she wants to make exceptions to hundreds of
years of tradition. The fact that that tradition was based on the cost of
lighting with candles or oil lamps at night doesn't matter. The tradition
stands.

If someone wants to buck tradition and culture, it is going to be a chore!
And those who don't want to do it can fall back on what their relatives and
neighbors and half the child-raising advice published will say is good and
right.

The mom can put those kids in dark rooms at a pre-determined bedtime and
threaten them if they don't get quiet and stay there, and she can go to bed
when her husband goes to bed.

OR she can have some modern new-fangled electricity-based idea and SHE (not
her husband who has to go to work in the morning) can figure out how to make
it work.

You either figure out how to make it work or you abandon the project. That's
the way engineering works. And what we're doing is social engineering. If a
bridge isn't working, building it the same way again isn't going to help.
You need to prepare the ground, KNOW what's underneath, deal with making the
owners happy, and the neighbors happy, and have good materials, a good plan,
consider environmental impact and structural longevity.

Unschooling is like bridge building in sf of it" is no way to build ANY
bridges.

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/18/03 10:51:00 AM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< For instance, dh loves to play baseball. When he was a kid, it was his mom
who played catch with him and was at all his games. So even though HE is
the one who loves baseball, he expects me to be the one to do baseball with
the kids, because that is what moms do, in his mind. >>

My husband used to be that way about swimming, and I don't even SWIM!
He said I needed to LEARN to swim so I could help the kids learn.

I've tried to learn. Keith's tried to teach me. It's not happening in this
lifetime.

I got another homeschooling mom to go with me to take our kids to swimming
lessons, but I continued to patiently tell Keith he likes to swim, and it's
something he could do with the kids. Finally he got it and he DID have fun.
For a long time, he and Holly went swimming every Friday afternoon. She
plays Harry Potter now, but they will probably resume when and if this
tournament series ends.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/18/2003 1:48:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
unschooling@... writes:

> It's funny (and sometimes not) how two partners come to a relationship
> with expectations based on what their parents did. In my family, my
> father always went out in the cold to warm up the car and clear off the
> snow. I still think of it as dh's job. In his family, his mom did that
> and he thinks of it as my job.

Reminds me of one of those "lightbulb" moments we had as a family years ago.
I asked my oldest daughter if she'd like to see how the washer and dryer
works. She was older, wearing three or four changes of clothes a day and
often was frustrated waiting on the laundry she wanted to wear to be done.

In our household most often my DH does the laundry, he prefers ANYTHING that
doesn't require constant interaction with the children. Specific things like
reading stories or watching ball games are fine, just that time that he can't
himself figure out what to do with them.

Anyway, she looks at me smugly and says, "Mom I am never going to HAVE to do
laundry, it's MAN"S work". My husbands head snapped around and we realized
at that moment we had definitely succeeded in breaking the mold our families
both had about "women's work" and "man's work", ultimately just renaming
tasks.

My oldest girl is grown and living on her own and comes home to do laundry
and she still tries to talk her brothers into doing it for her before she
would ask her sister.

My oldest boy lives on his own and in his house he does the laundry, I guess
because his dad always did it. He has no children, just him and his
girlfriend, so I guess the things we see our parents do can be broken but we
should carefully guard ourselves that our children don't take up where we
left off.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> Unschooling is like bridge building in sf of it" is no way to build ANY
> bridges.

This was a great post up until the last bit. Mostly I don't mind what AOL
does to your posts, Sandra, but I want the rest of this one. <g>
Tia

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
saftety deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin
leschke@...