Mary

I have a problem with Sierra that I have been working on for quite awhile now with no luck. Sure could use some words of wisdom. For the last couple of months, I've noticed a change in Sierra. She's not as easy going as she use to be. Meaning that she is being more troublesome than she ever was. She's fighting more with Joseph and Alyssa. She's whining and complaining more and just harder to deal with. There has been nothing of a change that I know of at all with our house or her friends or how we do things. I thought maybe it was a stage so I've been working extra hard to do the proper thing when she gets upset. You know about the crying and that has been more so also, although she's always been like that. She's almost defiant about things and blames everyone else when something happens.

Recent example today that finally made me write and ask for HELP!

I was cutting Sierra's nails in the playroom. I was sitting on the step stool and she was on my lap. I did one hand and the phone rang. When I came back to the playroom, she was almost on the verge of tears and Joseph was asking her what he did wrong. Come to find out that Joseph and her were talking and he did something that upset her. She said to him that he hurt her feelings and to stop. So far so good. Joseph really didn't have a clue as to what he said to upset her. Now Sierra and I had a very long talk just this morning about when Joseph is bugging her, she can't just say you're bugging me and stop. She has to let him know exactly what he's doing. Bugging me is not clear enough for Joseph. And in fact during this last episode, Joseph was even saying to her that same thing. He just didn't understand what he said. So I explained again that if she told him, he would know not to say things like that to her. She refused to say what he said. Joseph even asked her to come into the hallway thinking maybe she just didn't want to in front of me. She refused that also. So I explained that it was up to her to decide. How could Joseph stop upsetting her when he didn't know what it was he did? She wouldn't say a word. So I let it go and asked her to come over on my lap so I could finish her nails. The 3 kids were wanting to go outside and Joseph was waiting for her. She told me I cut her nails already. I told her I only did one hand. She refused again to come to me and let me finish. Now I'm only about 4 feet away from her and the space didn't allow me to go to her and do the job. I asked her 3 times and she looked me right in the face and said not a word but didn't move. Today was the first day I was feeling like I wasn't dying and I just got very upset. I know I didn't help things but I lost it. I reached over and took her by the arm and brought her to my lap and cut her nails while she screamed in my ear. I told her it would probably be best if she went to her room. When I suggest they go to their room, it's to cool down and they never have to stay there or even go. But she went and screamed and cried in there.

After a while, I went in and tried to talk to her and she said she didn't want to talk to me about it. I left and she fell asleep. When Joe tried to go in to her, she started to cry again and didn't want to talk. Later she came out like nothing was wrong and we haven't said another word about it.

Now it wasn't that she was tired or I've been really sick. This is the kind of thing I've been trying to work out for a while. I know I should have left the nail thing go. But it wouldn't have helped the situation with Joseph and her. And to be honest, I've heard the two of them before and she makes things up about Joseph. Saying he said something he didn't. How can I talk to her about how to handle things when she won't talk to me? All I get is I don't know and he's bugging me. Joseph is not a bugging kind of kid although they both have their moments. Help.

Mary B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Dawn Ackroyd

How old is she?

-----Original Message-----
From: Mary [mailto:mummy124@...]
Sent: Friday, March 14, 2003 8:06 PM
To: Unschooling list
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] When they won't talk


I have a problem with Sierra that I have been working on for quite
awhile now with no luck. Sure could use some words of wisdom. For the
last couple of months, I've noticed a change in Sierra. She's not as
easy going as she use to be. Meaning that she is being more troublesome
than she ever was. She's fighting more with Joseph and Alyssa. She's
whining and complaining more and just harder to deal with. There has
been nothing of a change that I know of at all with our house or her
friends or how we do things. I thought maybe it was a stage so I've been
working extra hard to do the proper thing when she gets upset. You know
about the crying and that has been more so also, although she's always
been like that. She's almost defiant about things and blames everyone
else when something happens.

Recent example today that finally made me write and ask for HELP!

I was cutting Sierra's nails in the playroom. I was sitting on the step
stool and she was on my lap. I did one hand and the phone rang. When I
came back to the playroom, she was almost on the verge of tears and
Joseph was asking her what he did wrong. Come to find out that Joseph
and her were talking and he did something that upset her. She said to
him that he hurt her feelings and to stop. So far so good. Joseph really
didn't have a clue as to what he said to upset her. Now Sierra and I had
a very long talk just this morning about when Joseph is bugging her, she
can't just say you're bugging me and stop. She has to let him know
exactly what he's doing. Bugging me is not clear enough for Joseph. And
in fact during this last episode, Joseph was even saying to her that
same thing. He just didn't understand what he said. So I explained again
that if she told him, he would know not to say things like that to her.
She refused to say what he said. Joseph even asked her to come into the
hallway thinking maybe she just didn't want to in front of me. She
refused that also. So I explained that it was up to her to decide. How
could Joseph stop upsetting her when he didn't know what it was he did?
She wouldn't say a word. So I let it go and asked her to come over on my
lap so I could finish her nails. The 3 kids were wanting to go outside
and Joseph was waiting for her. She told me I cut her nails already. I
told her I only did one hand. She refused again to come to me and let me
finish. Now I'm only about 4 feet away from her and the space didn't
allow me to go to her and do the job. I asked her 3 times and she looked
me right in the face and said not a word but didn't move. Today was the
first day I was feeling like I wasn't dying and I just got very upset. I
know I didn't help things but I lost it. I reached over and took her by
the arm and brought her to my lap and cut her nails while she screamed
in my ear. I told her it would probably be best if she went to her room.
When I suggest they go to their room, it's to cool down and they never
have to stay there or even go. But she went and screamed and cried in
there.

After a while, I went in and tried to talk to her and she said she
didn't want to talk to me about it. I left and she fell asleep. When Joe
tried to go in to her, she started to cry again and didn't want to talk.
Later she came out like nothing was wrong and we haven't said another
word about it.

Now it wasn't that she was tired or I've been really sick. This is the
kind of thing I've been trying to work out for a while. I know I should
have left the nail thing go. But it wouldn't have helped the situation
with Joseph and her. And to be honest, I've heard the two of them before
and she makes things up about Joseph. Saying he said something he
didn't. How can I talk to her about how to handle things when she won't
talk to me? All I get is I don't know and he's bugging me. Joseph is not
a bugging kind of kid although they both have their moments. Help.

Mary B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

kayb85

How old is she? Does her moodiness come and go in cycles? It will
be easier to think about a solution if we know her age. I know that
when my daughter was going through a moody stage my homeopath
figured out that it was that she had questions about puberty stuff.
Sheila

--- In [email protected], "Mary" <mummy124@b...>
wrote:
> I have a problem with Sierra that I have been working on for quite
awhile now with no luck. Sure could use some words of wisdom. For
the last couple of months, I've noticed a change in Sierra. She's
not as easy going as she use to be. Meaning that she is being more
troublesome than she ever was. She's fighting more with Joseph and
Alyssa. She's whining and complaining more and just harder to deal
with. There has been nothing of a change that I know of at all with
our house or her friends or how we do things. I thought maybe it was
a stage so I've been working extra hard to do the proper thing when
she gets upset. You know about the crying and that has been more so
also, although she's always been like that. She's almost defiant
about things and blames everyone else when something happens.
>
> Recent example today that finally made me write and ask for HELP!
>
> I was cutting Sierra's nails in the playroom. I was sitting on the
step stool and she was on my lap. I did one hand and the phone rang.
When I came back to the playroom, she was almost on the verge of
tears and Joseph was asking her what he did wrong. Come to find out
that Joseph and her were talking and he did something that upset
her. She said to him that he hurt her feelings and to stop. So far
so good. Joseph really didn't have a clue as to what he said to
upset her. Now Sierra and I had a very long talk just this morning
about when Joseph is bugging her, she can't just say you're bugging
me and stop. She has to let him know exactly what he's doing.
Bugging me is not clear enough for Joseph. And in fact during this
last episode, Joseph was even saying to her that same thing. He just
didn't understand what he said. So I explained again that if she
told him, he would know not to say things like that to her. She
refused to say what he said. Joseph even asked her to come into the
hallway thinking maybe she just didn't want to in front of me. She
refused that also. So I explained that it was up to her to decide.
How could Joseph stop upsetting her when he didn't know what it was
he did? She wouldn't say a word. So I let it go and asked her to
come over on my lap so I could finish her nails. The 3 kids were
wanting to go outside and Joseph was waiting for her. She told me I
cut her nails already. I told her I only did one hand. She refused
again to come to me and let me finish. Now I'm only about 4 feet
away from her and the space didn't allow me to go to her and do the
job. I asked her 3 times and she looked me right in the face and
said not a word but didn't move. Today was the first day I was
feeling like I wasn't dying and I just got very upset. I know I
didn't help things but I lost it. I reached over and took her by the
arm and brought her to my lap and cut her nails while she screamed
in my ear. I told her it would probably be best if she went to her
room. When I suggest they go to their room, it's to cool down and
they never have to stay there or even go. But she went and screamed
and cried in there.
>
> After a while, I went in and tried to talk to her and she said she
didn't want to talk to me about it. I left and she fell asleep. When
Joe tried to go in to her, she started to cry again and didn't want
to talk. Later she came out like nothing was wrong and we haven't
said another word about it.
>
> Now it wasn't that she was tired or I've been really sick. This is
the kind of thing I've been trying to work out for a while. I know I
should have left the nail thing go. But it wouldn't have helped the
situation with Joseph and her. And to be honest, I've heard the two
of them before and she makes things up about Joseph. Saying he said
something he didn't. How can I talk to her about how to handle
things when she won't talk to me? All I get is I don't know and he's
bugging me. Joseph is not a bugging kind of kid although they both
have their moments. Help.
>
> Mary B
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

From: Dawn Ackroyd



<<How old is she?>>
Oops, sorry. Sierra just turned 7 in Feb. Joseph is 13 months older.

Mary B





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary

Another thing I wanted to add about Sierra. When she gets upset with Joseph, she just whines his name over and over. I have spoken to her hundreds of times about how he just tunes her out when she does that. That to be heard she has to say something. Use her words to say what is bothering her. She still does the same thing. It wasn't but 2 hours after that last episode that she was back to whining his name again because she said he was bugging her. And there have been times when she does that and I am right there watching, and he's not anywhere near her.

Mary B


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Deborah Lewis

Joseph might be more of a bugging kind of kid then you know.

If Sierra isn't talking with you she doesn't know how. What Joseph is
doing to her is probably subtle enough that she doesn't know how to
express it beyond "he's bugging me". It's possible he doesn't really
have a clue, but it's possible he does and part of the fun is she can't
or won't tell you all about it.

If she looked you in the face honestly and still wouldn't tell you, Mary,
she wants to communicate with you.
She wants to but can't for reasons you'll have to figure out.

You know she doesn't want you to be upset with her. She doesn't want to
feel the way she does.

Can you go someplace nice with her, just you and her, and talk? Drive
somewhere beautiful and just sit and talk? Tell her you love her and
you don't want her to be sad about Joseph. Just start there and don't
push her to tell you more than she can. But ask her frequently, when
you're alone with her. Just because she's seven and can talk doesn't
mean she knows how to sort out and put into words, her feeling about
whatever Joseph is doing.

Can Sierra sleep with you? If she could spend some really cozy and safe
time with you she might find a way to tell you. Sometimes it's easier
to talk into the darkness. If she can just express enough for you to
get an idea, then you can help Joseph too.

I am very sensitive to repeated sound. When I was little my brother
found out I couldn't stand to hear a noise over and over again and he
would come near me and make this clicking sound, softly with his tongue.
He did it to bother me but I didn't know what it was called, and saying
"he's bugging me" was the best I could do. Sometimes he would sit across
the room from me, wait until I looked at him, and make that motion with
his mouth. Even if I couldn't hear it, I thought I could, because I'd
heard it so much before, and I knew he was just trying to make me crazy.
It drove me wild. I had once told my mom what he was doing, and she
said "don't let him bother you" as if I had those skill to ignore him or
turn off my sensitivity to his little noise. She didn't understand how
much it bothered me and that I couldn't just ignore it.

Deb L

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/14/03 10:09:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummy124@... writes:

> . How can I talk to her about how to handle things when she won't talk to
> me? All I get is I don't know and he's bugging me. Joseph is not a bugging
> kind of kid although they both have their moments. Help.
>
>

Not sure I can help. But I do know that my youngest, Phillip-5, will
sometimes get angry with his brother and not remember what Dallen did to "bug
him". All Phil can verbalize is that Dallen is bugging him. I commend him
for that because that is progress. Used to be that he would just reach out
and hit Dallen and he isn't, now he is starting to name the feeling, to some
extent. But I believe that he really don't remember what it was that started
it. They separate for a few minutes so that Dallen isn't bugging him any
more. Then Phillip will come up with some sort of game that he wants to play
and they will move on.

She may not remember what was said or done. And maybe the fingernail thing
was just enough to push her over the edge, so to speak. Sometimes just
changing the activity or doing something else with her so that she is not
with the person who "bugged her," even for just a few minutes. It was good
that she was able to label it and recognize that something was "not right."
She was verbalizing and not throwing things or hitting etc.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Christina Morrissey

Hey Mary....

I know it's probably not much help, but I have two very high maintenance
kids with lots of trauma probs and from your descriptions whatever is going
on Sierra is in high stress mode. I'm sure your gut is sensing this which
is why you are emailing for help, yada yada.... All I can offer, regardless
of the source of trouble is that if you are not able to determine the
problem right away, perhaps reduce the stress directed at Sierra to solve
the problem as to what "is the problem?" When she melts down or goes
silent, perhaps just put everything on hold, reassure her that you know she
is feeling horrible and confused and whatever and hold her and hug and
physically connect with her again to reduce the stress level inside her
(and you!).

With my kids I discovered that the situation often escalated itself when I
would attempt to resolve it just from the stress of trying to "get to the
bottom of it, right then and there!" (You get so tired of it happening all
the time, I know!!) But, it was usually too complicated or obscure to be
dealt with in an emotional moment anyway and I was better off just dropping
the issue, dealing with the emotions present and then later trying to help
figure out what went on......

Christina in WA