Connie Stillwell

Hi Group,

It was suggested to read Adelle Faber books. I need
someone to walk me thru this. How many books has she
written and which one should I read first? If I ever
heard of Adelle Faber it went in one ear and out the
other.


Since we have been unschooling I have been learning
the educational aspect of it; everyone in the home is
doing very well with it. I am now seeing the
connection between the learning and the disciple.
Diane is a good enough friend to tell me that I have
control issues with the children. YIKES! I need to get
away from that and allow the children the
opportunities to work out their own problems.

Trusting that the children will learn what they need
is good here, but trusting that the children will
solve their problems between themselves does make me
nervous. But I know what we are doing isn't working,
so I am open to try something different even if that
means doing it on "blind faith".

Thank you,

Connie Stillwell


=====
"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall

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Robin Bentley

Adele Faber wrote (co-authored with Elaine Mazlish) "How to Talk So Kids
Will Listen and Listen So Kids Will Talk" and "Siblings Without Rivalry."
Great books. I think they're on sale, together, at Amazon.com now.

I'm glad you have a friend like Diane to help you. You'll find lots of good
stuff here, too.

Robin B.

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/12/03 8:27:59 AM, mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

<< Diane is a good enough friend to tell me that I have
control issues with the children. YIKES! I need to get
away from that and allow the children the
opportunities to work out their own problems.

Trusting that the children will learn what they need
is good here, but trusting that the children will
solve their problems between themselves does make me
nervous. >>

Those aren't the only two choices. I hate the idea of children being left to
solve their own problems. But I don't like a parent just saying "you
do/sit/say this, and you respond with this, and now it's all fixed," because
that's not true.

With my kids, I talk them through, individually, what they're angry about and
what might help. I don't play trial with them in the same room telling their
sides. That just makes for more antagonism. I go back and forth, three or
four passes, until each of them has heard (second hand/filtered) the other's
concerns, with my mom-concerns added, and by then they're calm, they've
expressed themselves, they're soothed, and they have ideas for prevention
next time.

Sandra

Connie Stillwell

I don't play trial with them in the same room telling
their
sides


The family tried this last week. The goal that I had
set was that the children would find compromise with
each other. The process took everyone to a different
insight. The conversation provided the children of an
understanding that we as a family can share the same
experience (such as a walk around the block) and each
of us has our own perception of that experience.

But this took 2 hrs. I was lucky that the 2 yr old
was asleep at the time, and hubby was busy playing
pinochle. : )

Connie

=====
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__________________________________________________
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In a message dated 3/12/03 10:59:50 AM, mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

<< The family tried this last week. The goal that I had
set was. . .

<<But this took 2 hrs. I was lucky that the 2 yr old
was asleep at the time, and hubby was busy playing
pinochle. : ) >>

Sounds like "the family" didn't try anything, YOU did something to a subset
of your family.

Just reflecting back what you wrote.

It helps, when people are looking at their parenting and unschooling, to be
careful not to say "we" when you really mean "I."

Maybe what you did worked out, but it doesn't sound like a family owned and
operated activity.
If it was your kids' idea to do it, I'll feel differently about it, maybe
(depending where they got the idea <g>.)

I find that when the kids are made to confront each other, things are said in
anger which can never be unsaid, and that doesn't help.

Sandra

Connie Stillwell

Maybe what you did worked out, but it doesn't sound
like a family owned and
operated activity.


You are correct; it wasn't family owned. I was
running it. The children were told when they could
talk and when they had to listen. : ( It also
re-enforced the idea of someone needing a punishment.

I am not going to say more on this topic. I am going
to the bookstore. I will also follow the insights and
experiences, etc. of the group.

Thank you,

Connie

=====
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__________________________________________________
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Connie Stillwell

To help me not do this anymore...


Sounds like "the family" didn't try anything, YOU did
something to a subset
of your family.

...what parenting books do I need? Is this TCS or
another style? I just need to know where to start.: )

Thank you,

Connie


=====
"My best teacher was my dog; the world is my classroom."---Jane Goodall

__________________________________________________
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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/12/03 1:45:19 PM, mdcrabcakes2000@... writes:

<< ...what parenting books do I need? Is this TCS or
another style? I just need to know where to start.: ) >>

You don't need anything but to just keep reading this list, maybe
www.unschooling.com, not TCS (too extreme for me). It's just awareness.
Nothing special. Just being aware of thoughts and words and actions. Being
more respectful of kids as time goes on until you can't imagine you ever
weren't!

Sandra

Connie Stillwell

Thank you very much. : )

Connie




You don't need anything but to just keep reading this
list, maybe
www.unschooling.com, not TCS (too extreme for me).
It's just awareness.
Nothing special. Just being aware of thoughts and
words and actions. Being
more respectful of kids as time goes on until you
can't imagine you ever
weren't!

Sandra


=====
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__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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Bill and Diane

Read Siblings Without Rivalry.

:-) Diane

Connie Stillwell wrote:

>Hi Group,
>
>It was suggested to read Adelle Faber books. I need
>someone to walk me thru this. How many books has she
>written and which one should I read first? If I ever
>heard of Adelle Faber it went in one ear and out the
>other.
>
>
>Since we have been unschooling I have been learning
>the educational aspect of it; everyone in the home is
>doing very well with it. I am now seeing the
>connection between the learning and the disciple.
>Diane is a good enough friend to tell me that I have
>control issues with the children. YIKES! I need to get
>away from that and allow the children the
>opportunities to work out their own problems.
>
>Trusting that the children will learn what they need
>is good here, but trusting that the children will
>solve their problems between themselves does make me
>nervous. But I know what we are doing isn't working,
>so I am open to try something different even if that
>means doing it on "blind faith".
>
>Thank you,
>

Robin Bentley

>
> Those aren't the only two choices. I hate the idea of children being left
to
> solve their own problems. But I don't like a parent just saying "you
> do/sit/say this, and you respond with this, and now it's all fixed,"
because
> that's not true.

This is how I look at it. I think of myself as helping my child in her
understanding of the world. When I give advice, sometimes it's not wanted
(or even good advice) - I have to consciously stop myself from doing it. I
find if I listen to her feelings - and it's often hard for me when the
feeling that often comes up is anger - and ask questions, she often sorts it
out. I'm her facilitator, if you will.

I have friends, however, who see this as interfering. They think you
should let the children work it out between themselves, with little or no
help (after all, that's what we had to do as kids.) Now while I feel okay
about doing what I think is my job to help my daughter navigate the world,
I'm left with always dealing with what's going on, on my own, without the
other parents being a part of it and talking to their kids. Generally, they
feel I spend way too much time sorting it out. Any suggestions?

Robin B.

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/12/03 11:09:23 PM, robinbentley@... writes:

<< I have friends, however, who see this as interfering. They think you
should let the children work it out between themselves, with little or no
help (after all, that's what we had to do as kids.) Now while I feel okay
about doing what I think is my job to help my daughter navigate the world,
I'm left with always dealing with what's going on, on my own, without the
other parents being a part of it and talking to their kids. Generally, they
feel I spend way too much time sorting it out. Any suggestions? >>

When kids are at a stage of physically hitting or when there's a risk of
property damage, I think a parent who leave kids to work it out are being
neglectful at best and contributing to the violence. My parents raised two
of my cousins, female, about the ages of me and my younger sister. The
younger cousin was mean and strong, and hit HARD. She only wailed on me
once, but if my parents had been like some parents I've known since and read
about, she could have done it weekly or better, in the name of working things
out on her own.

Even just a mean name-calling session is more than a child deserves just for
being born into a family with other siblings neither of his choosin nor
creation.

Had Kirby been an only child he would have other problems, perhaps, but since
I brought Marty in to live with him, I need to protect Kirby from Marty, and
vice versa. It's not that hard. And if in the same act of protection I also
help them sort out various options on how to think about and respond to
sibling difficulties, I'm just being a responsible and attentive mom, in my
opinion.

I don't TELL them what they have to do (other than to get their adrenaline
out and figure out a better thing to do that to yell, hit, or slam things
around). I let them express their anger and frustration to me. That gets it
out where I can try to soothe and sympathize and remind them I love them, and
maybe remind them they've been like that other kid, but things get better
with age and experience.

How much time helping a child understand the world and how to be a happier
and better person could be "too much time"?

If you go past the point that the kids are receptive, that might be too much.
But my guess from what you wrote is that your hands-off friends might want
you to be more hands off so they don't feel they need to do what you're
doing. Sad, but that happens.

Sandra

nellebelle

So many books...

I just finished Child's Work, by Nancy Wallace. I enjoyed it VERY much. I
had also read her first book, Better Than School. She began homeschooling
her two children in the 80's and had quite a struggle with the local school
district in the early years. Child's Work discusses her personal struggle
between what society thinks children should be doing and how her own
children learned what they needed from everything that they did. They were
friends with John Holt, who makes a few appearances in the book.

Does anybody know Ishmael and Vita Wallace today?

Mary Ellen

Sorcha

Ok, my sons are both have spring birthdays and they're turning 2 and 5,
so I'm not pretending to have life-long answers, but they do get along
extremely well, so I thought I'd share some of the ways I handle their
disagreements.

First, I approach it as though they are both in the right and it's
merely the situation, and their conflicting goals, causing the problem.
For example, when the "baby" was a little younger he went through a
period of knocking down block towers. His brother obviously didn't
appreciate it. When I saw a block tower get knocked down, before my
oldest had a chance to react, I'd say, "Oh, look, your brother is
pretending to be a giant dinosaur and he's having a lot of fun knocking
down your blocks! That's so nice of you to build a block tower for
him!" Now, some kids might look at me like I was an idiot, but my son
actually looked at it from the point of view I was trying to show and
starting building towers and then saying, "Come on, knock this one
down!" and having great fun. And then during his brother's naps I'd
remind him that it would be a perfect chance to build something that
doesn't get knocked down.

Also, if one of them hits the other, I say, "Oops! Your frustration got
so big that you forgot not to hit your brother!" I acknowledge the
feelings of both parties and I emphasize the source of the conflict and
how we can solve it. Now it's at the point where the 5 year old never
hits his brother anymore, and the 2 year old sometimes still does, but
his brother doesn't retaliate, he just says, "We don't hit people."

When my younger son was first born, I made up a song about how much I
love him and how much I love his brother. I'd sit holding the baby in
the same room his brother was playing in. Even though the baby didn't
understand the words (to him it was just a snuggle and a song), his
brother *did* understand the words and knew that even though I was
spending so much time with the new baby, that they were both my boys and
I love them both. I've always emphasized how wonderful it is for both
of them to have a brother to play with and how much I love my own
brother (who's a Marine and stationed in the Persian Gulf right now; I'm
not being phony when I say it's wonderful to be able to play with your
brother. I really do wish my brother was still sitting in the living
room playing legos with me instead of sitting on a ship half-way around
the world).

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorcha

I don't know Vita and Ishmael Wallace, but if you look up "Orfeo Duo" on
the internet, you can read about them. He's a composer and she's a
violinist. They've played Carnegie Hall and recorded an album.

Sorcha




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Backstrom kelli

Great wonderful suggestions! I have a two and a half year old who has a brand new sister (Nora is 3 months) and I have made up several Sadie and Nora songs for them. I always try to include Sadie in whatever aspect of caring for Nora that she wants to and I am always happily surprised at how much she does want to do. She loves to put powder on Nora's little butt while I change her and to remind me that Nora needs diapers but she doesn't anymore. Talk about a reminder that children will learn when they are ready: Sadie just decided one day a month ago that she had had it with diapers and was ready to move on. Two days later she was potty trained. All we did was push those well meaning grandparents away when they tried to pressure her about it and read a couple books about the subject and she knew when she was ready and now she is so proud to not be the "baby" like little Nora:)
Kelli
Sorcha <sorcha-aisling@...> wrote:Ok, my sons are both have spring birthdays and they're turning 2 and 5,
so I'm not pretending to have life-long answers, but they do get along
extremely well, so I thought I'd share some of the ways I handle their
disagreements.

First, I approach it as though they are both in the right and it's
merely the situation, and their conflicting goals, causing the problem.
For example, when the "baby" was a little younger he went through a
period of knocking down block towers. His brother obviously didn't
appreciate it. When I saw a block tower get knocked down, before my
oldest had a chance to react, I'd say, "Oh, look, your brother is
pretending to be a giant dinosaur and he's having a lot of fun knocking
down your blocks! That's so nice of you to build a block tower for
him!" Now, some kids might look at me like I was an idiot, but my son
actually looked at it from the point of view I was trying to show and
starting building towers and then saying, "Come on, knock this one
down!" and having great fun. And then during his brother's naps I'd
remind him that it would be a perfect chance to build something that
doesn't get knocked down.

Also, if one of them hits the other, I say, "Oops! Your frustration got
so big that you forgot not to hit your brother!" I acknowledge the
feelings of both parties and I emphasize the source of the conflict and
how we can solve it. Now it's at the point where the 5 year old never
hits his brother anymore, and the 2 year old sometimes still does, but
his brother doesn't retaliate, he just says, "We don't hit people."

When my younger son was first born, I made up a song about how much I
love him and how much I love his brother. I'd sit holding the baby in
the same room his brother was playing in. Even though the baby didn't
understand the words (to him it was just a snuggle and a song), his
brother *did* understand the words and knew that even though I was
spending so much time with the new baby, that they were both my boys and
I love them both. I've always emphasized how wonderful it is for both
of them to have a brother to play with and how much I love my own
brother (who's a Marine and stationed in the Persian Gulf right now; I'm
not being phony when I say it's wonderful to be able to play with your
brother. I really do wish my brother was still sitting in the living
room playing legos with me instead of sitting on a ship half-way around
the world).

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorcha

My son learned the potty on his own, but not as early as your daughter.
When he was nearly two, my parents gave him a potty. He started
screaming and threw it down the stairs. The plastic broke and we threw
it away.

When he was 2 ½, my parents said, “We’re not trying to pressure you, but
here’s a potty-training video for Christmas.” My son was not
interested.

At three, he was still not interested. As he was turning four, I was
getting a lot of comments from my parents and they thought they were
being proved right, that children won’t learn on their own and need to
be trained. I kept changing his diapers without pressuring him. I’d
ask now and then if he wanted to try the potty and he said no.

Well, one day when he was nearly four and a half, my husband was
attempting to put a diaper on him after a bath and he said, “I’m a big
boy. Bring me some underwear.” He started wearing only underwear and
using the potty every time. Just like that. He’s never had a single
accident. Not once.

A lot of parents might not be willing to wait until a child’s 4 ½, but
it did prove to me that he’ll learn (and learn well) when he’s ready
(and not one week before!). Now he’s been showing his brother how the
potty works, and his brother has been taking off his diaper and sitting
on it, which is more than my older son ever did at 23 months. He cheers
for his brother and hugs him and tells him he’s doing great. My mom
said, “He’ll potty train his brother and then you’ll be done changing
diapers!” But I’m not in a hurry. I know it might still be a few
years, and I know that it will work out just fine.

Sorcha


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Backstrom kelli

It's so funny because I kept thinking over the last couple of months "How did I potty train Molly (my ten year old)?" and for the life of me I couldn't remember and I think that is because I didn't train Molly to do anything, she did it on her own. Sadie was young to make this initiative on her own. She has had a couple pee pee accidents and we just get cleaned up and move on with life. I asked her if she wanted to wear her diapers again when she had a solid day of wetting everytime and she said no way! So we just do with that. I think having the younger sibling made her want to distinguish herself.
Sorcha <sorcha-aisling@...> wrote:My son learned the potty on his own, but not as early as your daughter.
When he was nearly two, my parents gave him a potty. He started
screaming and threw it down the stairs. The plastic broke and we threw
it away.

When he was 2 �, my parents said, �We�re not trying to pressure you, but
here�s a potty-training video for Christmas.� My son was not
interested.

At three, he was still not interested. As he was turning four, I was
getting a lot of comments from my parents and they thought they were
being proved right, that children won�t learn on their own and need to
be trained. I kept changing his diapers without pressuring him. I�d
ask now and then if he wanted to try the potty and he said no.

Well, one day when he was nearly four and a half, my husband was
attempting to put a diaper on him after a bath and he said, �I�m a big
boy. Bring me some underwear.� He started wearing only underwear and
using the potty every time. Just like that. He�s never had a single
accident. Not once.

A lot of parents might not be willing to wait until a child�s 4 �, but
it did prove to me that he�ll learn (and learn well) when he�s ready
(and not one week before!). Now he�s been showing his brother how the
potty works, and his brother has been taking off his diaper and sitting
on it, which is more than my older son ever did at 23 months. He cheers
for his brother and hugs him and tells him he�s doing great. My mom
said, �He�ll potty train his brother and then you�ll be done changing
diapers!� But I�m not in a hurry. I know it might still be a few
years, and I know that it will work out just fine.

Sorcha


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/03 9:31:19 AM, sorcha-aisling@... writes:

<< A lot of parents might not be willing to wait until a child’s 4 , but

it did prove to me that he’ll learn (and learn well) when he’s ready

(and not one week before!). >>

And without trauma or hateful words or tears or accusations or all those
other lifetime (maybe subconscious) souvenirs and scars.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
> I just finished Child's Work, by Nancy Wallace. I enjoyed it VERY much.
I
> had also read her first book, Better Than School. She began homeschooling
> her two children in the 80's and had quite a struggle with the local
school
> district in the early years. Child's Work discusses her personal struggle
> between what society thinks children should be doing and how her own
> children learned what they needed from everything that they did. They
were
> friends with John Holt, who makes a few appearances in the book.

I loved that book. It really made clear that we can't know what our kids'
obsessions will end up leading to. Better just to support those obsessions
and help kids see how their obsessions can relate to other things.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/03 11:10:04 AM, moonlightmama@... writes:

<< This is so true my sister was tormented as a child she wet the bed until
she was 8 or so and the school kids would call her names like pee-body. To
this day my sister has very low self esteem and I believe that this had a big
part in it. >>

Marty peed the bed until lately, nine or ten. He wore adult diapers at
night. Anyone I found had made fun of him got a personal visitation from me.
(Kirby and a couple of his friends, not much, not too hard.)

Marty's self esteem is nearly dangerously high. And he doesn't pee the bed
anymore, nor has he ever as far as I know had a bad dream about it, nor even
ever cried.

It was treated very matter of factly and supportively.

I learned that from talking to a female friend who peed the bed into school
age and was shamed publically (her grandmother would hang the sheet on the
front fence and tell the neighbors, literally), and my husband, who wasn't
dry until he was eight or so.

Sandra

nellebelle

My mom delayed potty training my youngest brother because we were going to
be moving soon and she thought it would be best to wait until we moved. One
day he climbed out of his crib to use the toilet. Probably helped that he
had older brothers to mimic, but it does show that kids will do stuff when
they are ready!

Mary Ellen

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/2003 2:28:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,
nellebelle@... writes:
> My mom delayed potty training my youngest brother because we were going to
> be moving soon and she thought it would be best to wait until we moved.
> One
> day he climbed out of his crib to use the toilet. Probably helped that he
> had older brothers to mimic, but it does show that kids will do stuff when
> they are ready!

That's what I did. I could see that he was "ready", but we were just
beginning the move from Germany to the US. I didn't want him uncomfortable
with the plane flights, long car rides, numerous visits, and staying in
strange homes and hotels and all---I just wanted to wait.

He was ready and he did it. No fuss, no muss. Done. Cool. <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

Back when Tara was little, the people I was around expected children to be
potty trained at age 2. Tara was about 2 and a half and we were working on
it. She was doing okay but it was obvious we both had to work on it. We had
a star chart. I went away to Daytona for bike week and came back to find my
mom had "trained" her while I was gone. My sister and I were trained by age
1.

Joseph and Sierra didn't go potty until they were over 3. I got questions
all the time from in laws and my mom would ask but actually was pretty good
about not saying much. By this time she had already had to swallow
unschooling!

Alyssa is almost 2 and a half and my MIL every single time she comes over
mentions the potty. I'm this close to being snotty. You would think after
all this time of Joe and I stressing what we do and don't do, they would get
the message. Fat chance.

So Alyssa has no comprehension what to actually "do" on the potty. No pun
intended. She likes to sit there and then says she went. She asked for
panties the other day and wore them about an hour and then decided to go
back to her diaper. We have cute little panties from Sierra that I think she
would like to wear but is definitely not ready yet.

I have no problem with it aside from the MIL. Next time I'll just say we
train our dogs, not our kids.

Mary B






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Heather

>And without trauma or hateful words or tears or accusations or all those
other lifetime (maybe subconscious) souvenirs and scars.

This is so true my sister was tormented as a child she wet the bed until she was 8 or so and the school kids would call her names like pee-body. To this day my sister has very low self esteem and I believe that this had a big part in it.
Heather



----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 8:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Potty training and learning at their own pace



In a message dated 3/13/03 9:31:19 AM, sorcha-aisling@... writes:

<< A lot of parents might not be willing to wait until a child’s 4 , but

it did prove to me that he’ll learn (and learn well) when he’s ready

(and not one week before!). >>

And without trauma or hateful words or tears or accusations or all those
other lifetime (maybe subconscious) souvenirs and scars.

Sandra


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[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/03 11:30:51 AM Eastern Standard Time,
sorcha-aisling@... writes:

> Well, one day when he was nearly four and a half, my husband was
> attempting to put a diaper on him after a bath and he said, “I’m a big
> boy. Bring me some underwear.” He started wearing only underwear and
> using the potty every time. Just like that. He’s never had a single
> accident. Not once.
>
>

Ours learned that way at about the same age. He did have a few accidents but
no big deal. And my youngest was about 2 at the time and when he saw his big
brother using the potty he had to as well. One problem was that they were
both attached to the one potty. Couldn't use anything else so we had to drag
that thing around everywhere. Not a real portable potty. LOL My youngest
(almost 6) still swears he will not wipe his own butt until he is 18, of
course the age changes occasionally anywhere from 16 to about 20. LOL. I
said OK, I figure I can do that for a while. At least he does use the
toilet.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/13/03 12:26:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellibac@... writes:

> She has had a couple pee pee accidents and we just get cleaned up and move
> on with life. I asked her if she wanted to wear her diapers again when she
> had a solid day of wetting everytime and she said no way!

I tried those diaper things that are supposed to be like underwear and
neither of my boys would stand for it. I put one on and they immediately
took it off and threw it away and that was that. LOL.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
>

Ours learned that way at about the same age. He did have a few accidents
but
no big deal. And my youngest was about 2 at the time and when he saw his
big
brother using the potty he had to as well. One problem was that they were
both attached to the one potty. Couldn't use anything else so we had to
drag
that thing around everywhere. Not a real portable potty. LOL My youngest
(almost 6) still swears he will not wipe his own butt until he is 18, of
course the age changes occasionally anywhere from 16 to about 20. LOL. I
said OK, I figure I can do that for a while. At least he does use the
toilet.

Tell him you'll turn the job over to his girlfriend when he's a teenager.
<g>
Tia

Heather

>we train our dogs, not our kids

I like that one, I'll have to use it sometime.
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: Mary Bianco
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 12:34 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Potty training and learning at their own pace


Back when Tara was little, the people I was around expected children to be
potty trained at age 2. Tara was about 2 and a half and we were working on
it. She was doing okay but it was obvious we both had to work on it. We had
a star chart. I went away to Daytona for bike week and came back to find my
mom had "trained" her while I was gone. My sister and I were trained by age
1.

Joseph and Sierra didn't go potty until they were over 3. I got questions
all the time from in laws and my mom would ask but actually was pretty good
about not saying much. By this time she had already had to swallow
unschooling!

Alyssa is almost 2 and a half and my MIL every single time she comes over
mentions the potty. I'm this close to being snotty. You would think after
all this time of Joe and I stressing what we do and don't do, they would get
the message. Fat chance.

So Alyssa has no comprehension what to actually "do" on the potty. No pun
intended. She likes to sit there and then says she went. She asked for
panties the other day and wore them about an hour and then decided to go
back to her diaper. We have cute little panties from Sierra that I think she
would like to wear but is definitely not ready yet.

I have no problem with it aside from the MIL. Next time I'll just say we
train our dogs, not our kids.

Mary B






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Heather

>I learned that from talking to a female friend who peed the bed into school
age and was shamed publically (her grandmother would hang the sheet on the
front fence and tell the neighbors, literally)

It's so sad that people, (especially one's own grandmother) could be so damaging!
Heather
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 13, 2003 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Potty training and learning at their own pace



In a message dated 3/13/03 11:10:04 AM, moonlightmama@... writes:

<< This is so true my sister was tormented as a child she wet the bed until
she was 8 or so and the school kids would call her names like pee-body. To
this day my sister has very low self esteem and I believe that this had a big
part in it. >>

Marty peed the bed until lately, nine or ten. He wore adult diapers at
night. Anyone I found had made fun of him got a personal visitation from me.
(Kirby and a couple of his friends, not much, not too hard.)

Marty's self esteem is nearly dangerously high. And he doesn't pee the bed
anymore, nor has he ever as far as I know had a bad dream about it, nor even
ever cried.

It was treated very matter of factly and supportively.

I learned that from talking to a female friend who peed the bed into school
age and was shamed publically (her grandmother would hang the sheet on the
front fence and tell the neighbors, literally), and my husband, who wasn't
dry until he was eight or so.

Sandra

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