[email protected]

I was a flylady subscriber back in summer 2000 when she wasn't as widely
known. I learned a lot about getting on a consistent routine, and I would be
lying if I said it didn't make me nicer to be around. I could make excuses
all day long of why it's okay to live in a chaotic cluttered "creative"
house. The plain truth is our family does not thrive in such an environment.
It is very frustrating when you "forget" about an interesting book or project
because it gets lost in a mess. And if mom aint happy.......I took the best
parts of Flylady and discarded the rest. I don't think it's effective being
on the computer all the time receiving emails and reminders. I know myself to
know if I am on the computer too much, I am not available to my kids the way
I should be. There was a link to the message board about spending more time
being with your kids, and being on the computer too much is the biggest
saboteur. Ironic, isn't it? Now I remember why I stopped staying caught up
on these email lists. If I really have to choose between spending time on the
computer and having an organized house, the computer would be the first to
go. Most of the time I can find a suitable balance, but I am not going to
delude myself that it's okay to have a crazy stressed house that leads to a
crazy stressed mom. I do not have the capacity to relax in the midst of mess
and pretend it doesn't exist. I am a better mom and more available physically
and emotionally to my kids when I take care of myself and my house. I do not
nag the kids to help me. Flylady teaches not to be a martyr about cleaning,
not to be resentful that no one helps out. I get the house on a consistent
routine because it feels good to take care of the people I love, and that
brings more results in them helping out than ordering and nagging. They
appreciate calmness and order and start to cultivate it for themselves. And
they spend time with me helping each other instead of hiding or avoiding what
needs to be done. I agree with the poster that said some things just need to
be done.

Now I don't expect everyone to agree with me but it may be worth some
consideration especially if it evokes defensiveness to what I am comm
unicating. Here is what I have gotten from Flylady and adapted, so here it is
without having to subscribe to emails and reminders and so forth:

Make a morning routine and evening routine ON PAPER, and do it. Spend however
many minutes in the morning and in the evening, and it prevents things from
building up, including panic and resentment. Keep your Paper handy until it
becomes engraved in your brain. If you stray from it, get back on it. Don't
say it doesn't work and abandon it. It works. Just do it.

Keep a calendar, it saves time and money (i have spent so much in library
fines do to disorganization it's not funny) Flylady has a big notebook, I
have everything scaled down to fit in a few pages in a planner or even a
small packet. Go to fineprint.com and d/l a free program to scale down your
printable pages to save space, paper and ink.

How I incorporated zones: Flylady breaks up each area of the house into 4 or
5 zones, working on one zone each week. I cannot neglect part of the house
for a month or longer, so I line them up to the days of the week, monday=zone
1, tuesday=zone 2 etc. Make a master list of things that are important to you
and then on that day, pick one and do it for 15 minutes, if you can't do it
for one week, no biggie, pick that zone up the next time. Do the same things
the same day every week, like pay the bills on friday, wash the towels and
whites on monday.... things won't have a chance to pile up...Practice the do
it now method, pick up things as you move through the house, put things away
as soon as you are done with them, open the mail over a trash can, you get
the idea.....it's rather simple but doesn't occur naturally in the
organized-challenged such as myself...

If I don't get up everyday and do the simple things like get dressed and
cleaned up and make my bed, I wander aimlessly the rest of the day. If I do
my routines consistently, I can forget about whether laundry is piled up,
what I am going to cook for dinner, etc and really BE with my kids. We can
just get up and go on a field trip when the mood strikes us or when the
weather hits 50degrees, like on tuesday. It works for us.

If anyone needs help establishing routines and zones, you can go to
Flylady.net and get the info there, you don't have to subscribe to the email
list. The emails can be counterproductive IMO. They are designed to get you
into a habit then you need to unsub and do it yourself, no excuses. Or accept
the chaos you create. I'm not the type to accept the chaos, I want something
better for myself and my family and it's not that difficult to attain once
you get yourself into a groove. HTH!




Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Carrie Farris

Hi Aug,
This is just what I have done with FlyLady. I still do get the reminders but
I don't open them anymore I just use them as an end of the day mintal check
list. I go down all of them, deleting as I go and saying to myself "I did
that, I did that". It just gives me a little reward at the end of the day.
I, to, am finding that the week long zones are not working and I love your
zone a day thing! I will have to try that. Good thinking!

Carrie



>From: unolist@... Reply-To: [email protected] To:
>[email protected] Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Routines
>and Balance Date: Thu, 6 Mar 2003 10:30:25 EST
>
>I was a flylady subscriber back in summer 2000 when she wasn't as widely
>known. I learned a lot about getting on a consistent routine, and I would
>be lying if I said it didn't make me nicer to be around. I could make
>excuses all day long of why it's okay to live in a chaotic cluttered
>"creative" house. The plain truth is our family does not thrive in such an
>environment. It is very frustrating when you "forget" about an interesting
>book or project because it gets lost in a mess. And if mom aint
>happy.......I took the best parts of Flylady and discarded the rest. I
>don't think it's effective being on the computer all the time receiving
>emails and reminders. I know myself to know if I am on the computer too
>much, I am not available to my kids the way I should be. There was a link
>to the message board about spending more time being with your kids, and
>being on the computer too much is the biggest saboteur. Ironic, isn't it?
>Now I remember why I stopped staying caught up on these email lists. If I
>really have to choose between spending time on the computer and having an
>organized house, the computer would be the first to go. Most of the time I
>can find a suitable balance, but I am not going to delude myself that it's
>okay to have a crazy stressed house that leads to a crazy stressed mom. I
>do not have the capacity to relax in the midst of mess and pretend it
>doesn't exist. I am a better mom and more available physically and
>emotionally to my kids when I take care of myself and my house. I do not
>nag the kids to help me. Flylady teaches not to be a martyr about cleaning,
>not to be resentful that no one helps out. I get the house on a consistent
>routine because it feels good to take care of the people I love, and that
>brings more results in them helping out than ordering and nagging. They
>appreciate calmness and order and start to cultivate it for themselves. And
>they spend time with me helping each other instead of hiding or avoiding
>what needs to be done. I agree with the poster that said some things just
>need to be done.
>
>Now I don't expect everyone to agree with me but it may be worth some
>consideration especially if it evokes defensiveness to what I am comm
>unicating. Here is what I have gotten from Flylady and adapted, so here it
>is without having to subscribe to emails and reminders and so forth:
>
>Make a morning routine and evening routine ON PAPER, and do it. Spend
>however many minutes in the morning and in the evening, and it prevents
>things from building up, including panic and resentment. Keep your Paper
>handy until it becomes engraved in your brain. If you stray from it, get
>back on it. Don't say it doesn't work and abandon it. It works. Just do it.
>
>Keep a calendar, it saves time and money (i have spent so much in library
>fines do to disorganization it's not funny) Flylady has a big notebook, I
>have everything scaled down to fit in a few pages in a planner or even a
>small packet. Go to fineprint.com and d/l a free program to scale down your
>printable pages to save space, paper and ink.
>
>How I incorporated zones: Flylady breaks up each area of the house into 4
>or 5 zones, working on one zone each week. I cannot neglect part of the
>house for a month or longer, so I line them up to the days of the week,
>monday=zone 1, tuesday=zone 2 etc. Make a master list of things that are
>important to you and then on that day, pick one and do it for 15 minutes,
>if you can't do it for one week, no biggie, pick that zone up the next
>time. Do the same things the same day every week, like pay the bills on
>friday, wash the towels and whites on monday.... things won't have a chance
>to pile up...Practice the do it now method, pick up things as you move
>through the house, put things away as soon as you are done with them, open
>the mail over a trash can, you get the idea.....it's rather simple but
>doesn't occur naturally in the organized-challenged such as myself...
>
>If I don't get up everyday and do the simple things like get dressed and
>cleaned up and make my bed, I wander aimlessly the rest of the day. If I do
>my routines consistently, I can forget about whether laundry is piled up,
>what I am going to cook for dinner, etc and really BE with my kids. We can
>just get up and go on a field trip when the mood strikes us or when the
>weather hits 50degrees, like on tuesday. It works for us.
>
>If anyone needs help establishing routines and zones, you can go to
>Flylady.net and get the info there, you don't have to subscribe to the
>email list. The emails can be counterproductive IMO. They are designed to
>get you into a habit then you need to unsub and do it yourself, no excuses.
>Or accept the chaos you create. I'm not the type to accept the chaos, I
>want something better for myself and my family and it's not that difficult
>to attain once you get yourself into a groove. HTH!
>
>
>
>
>Ang Unschooling mom to Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5) UNO Unschoolers
>Network of Ohio My Links Page MEGAMOM08
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 8:33:21 AM, unolist@... writes:

<< They are designed to get you
into a habit then you need to unsub and do it yourself, no excuses. Or accept
the chaos you create. I'm not the type to accept the chaos, I want something
better for myself and my family >>

Most of what you wrote makes a ton of sense, and it's not a problem, but this
is offensive to me, because the suggestion is that not doing flylady-type
cleaning is equal to the creation of chaos.

And that either we all accept chaos or we clean as well as you do.

And it suggests that we don't "want something better" for ourselves and our
families.

You probably clean lots better than I do, but maybe I read and write better
than you do. And whether reading and writing are valuable or not *IS*
important when people are coming to a written-word site voluntarily and
asking in words for help, in words.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 1:15:54 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> You probably clean lots better than I do, but maybe I read and write better
> than you do

No, I suck at cleaning LOL. But finding things that are helpful and passing
them along is part of who I am. I just try to share what works for me or what
has helped me. Not trying to offend anyone who is comfortable with a
different standard. If having organization that leads to patience is better
for me and my family, it doesn't necessarily imply that someone with a
different situation is worse. How it relates to my attempt at an unschooling
life: if my daughter wants to get up and cook something, I am more likely to
relax and just let her if there is a clean counter to cook on. She almost
caught a notebook on fire once. I may not be as laid back as some of the
seasoned unschoolers here, but I am a lot more relaxed than I was before. I
am a perfectionist and I just want to help others like myself with common
goals or similar suffering. I come here to contribute, not argue. Also to
learn and grow. Maybe it's just me, maybe it's the way I come across, but
when I make a different choice for my family, I often get the "are you saying
the way I do it isn't good enough?" defense. ESPECIALLY among fellow parents.
My choice to homeschool implies schooling families are inferior, my choice to
breastfeed implies formula is inferior, it goes on and on. Can't someone do
something that is best for them without apologizing for making others feel
defensive? I will never assert my way is the best way or the only way. I
honestly appreciate when someone can honestly tell me if I come across
offensive without taking it personally. I am eager to learn to communicate
more effectively, and am open to suggestions.

Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 1:07:42 PM, unolist@... writes:

<< Can't someone do
something that is best for them without apologizing for making others feel
defensive? >>

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 1:07:42 PM, unolist@... writes:

<< Can't someone do
something that is best for them without apologizing for making others feel
defensive? >>

[email protected]

<< Can't someone do
something that is best for them without apologizing for making others feel
defensive? >>

Something is making my keyboard launch mail prematurely today. Sorry about
the two blanks before this.

Yes, you can DO it, but it's the way you chose to justify it that ended up
calling the rest of us names.

When someone says to me (which they've done lots, at conferences usually)
"Unschooling is fine for you, but WE want our kids to go to COLLEGE," the
implication is that I don't want my kids to go to college, or that my kids
won't be college material and they're not willing to be the child-ruining
future-denying kind of person I am.

Had they just said "Can unschoolers go to college?" and give me the
opportunity to say "Sure, lots do" they could still be thinking all they want
that I'm a slacker and that they're never going to unschool, but they didn't
SAY by setting up a dichotomy and parking themselves firmly on the winning
side that I was the irresponsible mother of children who would never go to
college.

I don't think it's subtle. And I know I'm guilty sometimes of suggesting
that a curriculum will kill a child's desire to learn. And I know I'm guilty
sometimes of saying that I really want my kids to have peace and confidence,
and that's why I don't make a bunch of rules (implying, when I'm not careful,
that people with a bunch of rules won't have confident kids who are at peace.

But really, I do believe that.

So maybe my suggestion (so indelicately put) is not to make those statements
unless you MEAN to make them, and if you mean to make them, be willing to
defend them.

Sorry I was testy earlier. I've lived a full and happy life amidst clutter
and I know lots of happy people whose houses have piles of books and shelves
with great cloth half falling off, and drawers of trim and tools and
treasures and pretty rocks, and I'd rather be at their houses than the clean
houses of boring people with nothing to talk about except there's a new
improved citrus cleaner (not that I don't love citrus cleaners, there's just
not a lot to say about them). So maybe it's just that I'm comfortable in
clutter. I love Usborne books, and I've heard people say they can't even
read them because they're cluttery.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 3:27:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Sorry I was testy earlier. I've lived a full and happy life amidst clutter
> and I know lots of happy people whose houses have piles of books and
> shelves
> with great cloth half falling off, and drawers of trim and tools and
> treasures and pretty rocks, and I'd rather be at their houses than the
> clean
> houses of boring people with nothing to talk about

I have lived a life choked by clutter and excess, and have trouble shining
through it. I can't talk with anyone about anything in my house if I won't
them in from embarrassment LOL. Flylady terminology: C.H.A.O.S.=Cant Have
Anyone Over Syndrome. My house is not perfectly cleaned, but it is under
better control than it used to be. You ought to see my basement where the
clutter still resides, coincidentally I named it the homeschooling room
because half the time I don't care what it looks like, as long as it is rich
in resources and inviting to explore. That's where the shelves of books and
tables covered with overflowing boxes of supplies and unfinished projects and
tubs of toys live. Sometimes we love spending time down there. Other times we
have to get the hell away to clearer, calmer areas of the house. Again, I
don't apologize for what I am trying to say, because I know my intent was
good, but for the way I say it. Sometimes I just rub people the wrong way.
I'll work on it <g>
Ang
Unschooling mom to
Megan(10) Ashlyn(3) Christian(1.5)
<A HREF="http://hometown.aol.com/unolist/index.html">UNO Unschoolers Network of Ohio</A>
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/megamom08/page1.html">My Links Page MEGAMOM08</A>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Angela

Hey, I resemble that statement. LOL I think Usborne books are a great
quality and I love the ones for little kids...great drawings, but the busy
ones are too cluttery for me. I can't even focus on them to read them. I
feel the same way about my house. I feel way more at peace in neat (not
perfectly neat, but reasonably neat) surroundings. I still let my kids
craft all over my kitchen, cook, play beanies all over the house, have
numerous pets, build box houses or fairy houses, etc. but I like to keep at
least one room a haven of peacefulness that I can hide in when I am feeling
overwhelmed by clutter. I also like to find the floor of the house at least
every few days. If the kids don't feel like they are done with something I
don't put it away, (think lincoln logs) but if they don't play with them
for a few days, I do put them away. I definitely get overwhelmed by too
much clutter. I think it's all about finding a way to make everyone
happy...to find a common preference.

Angela in Maine- mailto:unschooling@...
http://userpages.prexar.com/rickshaw/

"What you are shouts so loudly in my ears I cannot hear what you say."
Emerson




I love Usborne books, and I've heard people say they can't even
read them because they're cluttery.

Sandra


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

myfunny4

--- In [email protected], unolist@a... wrote:
> I could make excuses
> all day long of why it's okay to live in a chaotic
cluttered "creative"
> house. The plain truth is our family does not thrive in such an
environment.

Hi Ang,
I think it *is* okay to live in a "chaotic cluttered 'creative'
house" if that environment and atmosphere is supporting a happy,
connected family. Perhaps *your* family doesn't thrive in such an
environment (or perhaps it's just *you* who doesn't thrive), but
there is no reason for you to imply that others who do are
making "excuses" for the way they live.


> Most of the time I can find a suitable balance, but I am not going
to
> delude myself that it's okay to have a crazy stressed house that
leads to a
> crazy stressed mom.

*If* a crazy stressed house does indeed lead to a crazy stressed mom,
but one does not necessarily lead to the other. There are several
things that make me crazy and stressed, but a messy house isn't on
the list. Also, I think it's important to emphasize that a messy
house isn't necessarily a "crazy, stressed" home.

I'm not trying to pick apart everything you're saying, Ang, but I
think that it's worthwhile to emphasize that while you have an
opinion that mess = stress, that equation cannot and should not be
applied to all families and homes. My sister is one of my dearest
friends, and she is one of the most unflappable, most comfortable-
with-herself people I've known; a housekeeper she is most definitely
NOT.

> If I don't get up everyday and do the simple things like get
dressed and
> cleaned up and make my bed, I wander aimlessly the rest of the day.

Now...don't you know that after 9:00 a.m. pajamas become
*loungewear*? <g> And I couldn't wander aimlessly even if I wanted
to. Lucky you!

They are designed to get you
> into a habit then you need to unsub and do it yourself, no excuses.
Or accept
> the chaos you create. I'm not the type to accept the chaos, I want
something
> better for myself and my family and it's not that difficult to
attain once
> you get yourself into a groove.

Well, now...that sounds a bit judgmental, and I hope you didn't mean
it that way. Why do you think your way is "something better" that we
should try to attain? The implication is that those moms who
contentedly live in chaos don't want what's best for their families,
or are making excuses for their chaos.

I've lived in chaos...spending 5 months last year in the hospital
with Kevin was very stressful, and I can assure you that the
household mess was the last worry on my mind...but was content that
my children were being cared for and supported during the times I
couldn't be with them. And I've lived with neatness and order, and
I've lived mostly in between the two...and I've managed to maintain
my priorities (family first), my perspective (this too shall pass)
and my sense of humor during all of them.

Debbie

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 4:02:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
unschooling@... writes:

> I think Usborne books are a great
> quality and I love the ones for little kids...great drawings, but the busy
> ones are too cluttery for me.

My boys love the cluttery type of books. Love little tid bits of information
all over the page.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Wolfe's

I do too!
~*~Mary Ellen~*~



My boys love the cluttery type of books. Love little tid bits of information
all over the page.
Pam G.



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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 3/6/03 2:35:00 PM, Debbies4@... writes:

<< I couldn't wander aimlessly even if I wanted
to. Lucky you! >>

I can wander but VERY FAST, like a pinball. I go from room to room doing
part of something. <g> I bring in a load of firewood, but leave the cart by
the fireplace because I see a video that goes into a case I saw in another
room, and when I get there I see laundry and then the phone rings so the
laundry pile ends up by the address book because someone called for someone
else's phone number, and then...

Slowly I stir my stuff. <g>

Sandra