protecting them from schoolyard bullies
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/5/2003 3:19:30 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
just found out a neighbor was challenging my 8 yo to a "math duel," Asked
him what 9x9 was. My son added up the 18s in that (and the odd 9) and came
up with 81. The 3rd grade neighbor said, no I asked my teacher and he said
82, I win. I think the kid was lying to my son and he knew the answer but
maybe not. My son offered to give him chocolate if he never challenged him
to a math duel again! He accepted...that's what happened to the Hershey's
kisses! I was so mad I told my son that the neighbor had no idea of what 9x9
even meant and that he'd probably never figure out how to figure it out for
himself they way my son did and that his thinking process ran circles around
the neighbor. But I haven't seen the neighbor kid since then.
Any suggestions?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected] writes:
> Asking kids not to be such schoolkids is probably shocking to them at first,Hmmm.. this is interesting. What kinds of things do you call them on? I
>
> but if they get it it will benefit them for life. And if they don't get
> it,
> they can go somewhere else, because I really do want my kids to feel safe
> at
> home.
>
just found out a neighbor was challenging my 8 yo to a "math duel," Asked
him what 9x9 was. My son added up the 18s in that (and the odd 9) and came
up with 81. The 3rd grade neighbor said, no I asked my teacher and he said
82, I win. I think the kid was lying to my son and he knew the answer but
maybe not. My son offered to give him chocolate if he never challenged him
to a math duel again! He accepted...that's what happened to the Hershey's
kisses! I was so mad I told my son that the neighbor had no idea of what 9x9
even meant and that he'd probably never figure out how to figure it out for
himself they way my son did and that his thinking process ran circles around
the neighbor. But I haven't seen the neighbor kid since then.
Any suggestions?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 3/6/03 4:45:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
warblwarbl@... writes:
into that but was thinking about that last night. Not sure who posted or
what it was in reference to but someone said something about their child
learning the times tables at his own pace. I was thinking that my son will
probably never learn his times tables as "times tables." He knows how to get
at an answer to a particular problem but doesn't recite them from memory like
I was made to in school. We will never look at multiplication the same way.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
warblwarbl@... writes:
> My son offered to give him chocolate if he never challenged himSounds like your son solved the issue. I have no answers as we haven't run
> to a math duel again! He accepted...that's what happened to the Hershey's
> kisses! I was so mad I told my son that the neighbor had no idea of what
> 9x9
> even meant and that he'd probably never figure out how to figure it out for
>
> himself they way my son did and that his thinking process ran circles
> around
> the neighbor.
into that but was thinking about that last night. Not sure who posted or
what it was in reference to but someone said something about their child
learning the times tables at his own pace. I was thinking that my son will
probably never learn his times tables as "times tables." He knows how to get
at an answer to a particular problem but doesn't recite them from memory like
I was made to in school. We will never look at multiplication the same way.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
nellebelle
One of 10yod's best friends goes to school. Her older sister often says
things to dd about how she needs to go to school to learn, and she better
plan on going to school for middle school because that's when they really
start learning things. I explained to dd that because these children go to
school, their parents and teachers have convinced them that school is where
you must go to learn. The parents don't want to homeschool, and are telling
their kids "reasons" why they should go to school instead.
Mary Ellen
things to dd about how she needs to go to school to learn, and she better
plan on going to school for middle school because that's when they really
start learning things. I explained to dd that because these children go to
school, their parents and teachers have convinced them that school is where
you must go to learn. The parents don't want to homeschool, and are telling
their kids "reasons" why they should go to school instead.
Mary Ellen
[email protected]
-=- My son offered to give him chocolate if he never challenged him
to a math duel again! He accepted...that's what happened to the Hershey's
kisses! . . . .But I haven't seen the neighbor kid since then.
-=-Any suggestions?-=-
Keep chocolate on hand for the future and smile at your son extra big every
time you think of that story. If school kids can be bought so cheaply, just
pay them to shut up.
<< What kinds of things do you call them on? >>
Playground dialog for which my kids don't know the traditional responses.
The taunts PeeWee Herman makes fun of. That sort of gratuitous insult like
"I know you are, but what am I?" (Not thinking of specific examples, but
things for which kids at school just supply the traditional comeback, without
actually thinking about what the kid said and why he said it. My kids would
come to me when they were sixish and say "Nick said this. What does he mean?"
And my response was sometimes, "Nick just said that without thinking, because
it's something schoolkids say on playgrounds."
And those incidents seemed most often to be on the swingset. As though the
recess behavior kicked in in the presence of playground equipment.
<<The 3rd grade neighbor said, no I asked my teacher and he said 82, I win.
Holly was in a girl scout troop for a while and when Juliette Lowe day or
some such came, girls grouped up and chose a country to represent.
Holly came home saying she was one of the three doing China, and one thing
she needed to do was make a flag. "Make" a flag was color in the printout
they had given her of the outline, I think.
That was a horrible time. I had encouraged her to be a girl scout, but every
single week the stories were worse. Seems the leaders knew little about
anything and the other girls conspired to do as little as possible.
The horror was this: She said she was supposed to make the flag blue and
yellow. I said no, it's red. Blue, she said. The leader said so.
It was internet time. The worst damage done was her faith in adults'
knowledge.
And one of the other girls had suggested they bring fortune cookies, but I
knew from an article in Smithsonian magazine that fortune cookies are purely
an American invention.
AND, I said, they don't have girl guides or girl scouts in China anyway.
Why didn't the leaders say so when the girls chose China?
So I dug around and found out that Hong Kong still had some Girl Guide troops
which would be phased out as the girls get older and Hong Kong folds back
into China, having had its British colonial connection dissolved not so long
ago. No new Brownies or anything, though.
Holly, the only kid in her troop who couldn't read (who had been razzed for
it by the other girls and treated very condescendingly by a leader who seems
to have thought blue was a fine flag color for China's girl guides to carry)
made the second best presentation of the evening. Other kids haltingly read
their speeches which they had written. One couldn't sound out "Juliette
Lowe," reading it as though she'd never heard it or seen it. But Holly
stood and spoke, and told about the last vestige of Girl Guides in Hong Kong,
and held her paper flag of China.
That was school behavior five layers deep. The casual disregard for fact and
reason and connection, the emphasis on "reading" which wasn't a useful sort
of reading... it was sad.
I never talked to the other girls because I wasn't in the meetings. Holly
was going with the dim-witted daughter of a dim-witted (now former) friend
who badmouthed homeschooling to her daughter rather than discuss it openly
even though the daughter has step-siblings who homeschool (or probably
because of that) and her best friend was homeschooled. I could have talked
to that girl, but I had before and it wasn't going to help. She had begged
Holly to join the troop with her, and promised to help her read. Then she
succumbed to school-style pressure and spoke right aloud in front of everyone
that Holly couldn't read so SHE had to HELP her **SIGH** and Holly felt
betrayed.
Sandra
to a math duel again! He accepted...that's what happened to the Hershey's
kisses! . . . .But I haven't seen the neighbor kid since then.
-=-Any suggestions?-=-
Keep chocolate on hand for the future and smile at your son extra big every
time you think of that story. If school kids can be bought so cheaply, just
pay them to shut up.
<< What kinds of things do you call them on? >>
Playground dialog for which my kids don't know the traditional responses.
The taunts PeeWee Herman makes fun of. That sort of gratuitous insult like
"I know you are, but what am I?" (Not thinking of specific examples, but
things for which kids at school just supply the traditional comeback, without
actually thinking about what the kid said and why he said it. My kids would
come to me when they were sixish and say "Nick said this. What does he mean?"
And my response was sometimes, "Nick just said that without thinking, because
it's something schoolkids say on playgrounds."
And those incidents seemed most often to be on the swingset. As though the
recess behavior kicked in in the presence of playground equipment.
<<The 3rd grade neighbor said, no I asked my teacher and he said 82, I win.
>>That teacher worship is freakish.
Holly was in a girl scout troop for a while and when Juliette Lowe day or
some such came, girls grouped up and chose a country to represent.
Holly came home saying she was one of the three doing China, and one thing
she needed to do was make a flag. "Make" a flag was color in the printout
they had given her of the outline, I think.
That was a horrible time. I had encouraged her to be a girl scout, but every
single week the stories were worse. Seems the leaders knew little about
anything and the other girls conspired to do as little as possible.
The horror was this: She said she was supposed to make the flag blue and
yellow. I said no, it's red. Blue, she said. The leader said so.
It was internet time. The worst damage done was her faith in adults'
knowledge.
And one of the other girls had suggested they bring fortune cookies, but I
knew from an article in Smithsonian magazine that fortune cookies are purely
an American invention.
AND, I said, they don't have girl guides or girl scouts in China anyway.
Why didn't the leaders say so when the girls chose China?
So I dug around and found out that Hong Kong still had some Girl Guide troops
which would be phased out as the girls get older and Hong Kong folds back
into China, having had its British colonial connection dissolved not so long
ago. No new Brownies or anything, though.
Holly, the only kid in her troop who couldn't read (who had been razzed for
it by the other girls and treated very condescendingly by a leader who seems
to have thought blue was a fine flag color for China's girl guides to carry)
made the second best presentation of the evening. Other kids haltingly read
their speeches which they had written. One couldn't sound out "Juliette
Lowe," reading it as though she'd never heard it or seen it. But Holly
stood and spoke, and told about the last vestige of Girl Guides in Hong Kong,
and held her paper flag of China.
That was school behavior five layers deep. The casual disregard for fact and
reason and connection, the emphasis on "reading" which wasn't a useful sort
of reading... it was sad.
I never talked to the other girls because I wasn't in the meetings. Holly
was going with the dim-witted daughter of a dim-witted (now former) friend
who badmouthed homeschooling to her daughter rather than discuss it openly
even though the daughter has step-siblings who homeschool (or probably
because of that) and her best friend was homeschooled. I could have talked
to that girl, but I had before and it wasn't going to help. She had begged
Holly to join the troop with her, and promised to help her read. Then she
succumbed to school-style pressure and spoke right aloud in front of everyone
that Holly couldn't read so SHE had to HELP her **SIGH** and Holly felt
betrayed.
Sandra
Have a Nice Day!
----- Original Message -----
From: genant2@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2003 9:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] protecting them from schoolyard bullies
In a message dated 3/6/03 4:45:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
warblwarbl@... writes:
> My son offered to give him chocolate if he never challenged him
> to a math duel again! He accepted...that's what happened to the Hershey's
> kisses! I was so mad I told my son that the neighbor had no idea of what
> 9x9
> even meant and that he'd probably never figure out how to figure it out for
>
> himself they way my son did and that his thinking process ran circles
> around
> the neighbor.
Sounds like your son solved the issue. I have no answers as we haven't run
into that but was thinking about that last night. Not sure who posted or
what it was in reference to but someone said something about their child
learning the times tables at his own pace. I was thinking that my son will
probably never learn his times tables as "times tables." He knows how to get
at an answer to a particular problem but doesn't recite them from memory like
I was made to in school. We will never look at multiplication the same way.
Pam G.
Thats how we do it here too. We did have one of those "math duals" in the car once right after I picked up one of Jenna's school friends. I turned around and told her "We dont' do school that way, we do what we WANT and learn as we go". That shut her down and there were no more "math duals or spelling duals' after that.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
I just have to address the girl scouts thing. Last year my daughter was in a Junior troop and she hated it. When the Juliette Lowe Bazarr came around and they were all making things to sell, Sierra spelled something wrong on one of the items to sell. Spelling is not her strong suit, but its not for many people. The leader picked the item up and showed it to the whole troop, not naming who did it (but of course, who DIDNT know!), and made a stink about the spelling and how they couldn't sell that one.
It also seemed as though the leaders decided everything for the girls: which badges they worked on, etc. I don't remember Sierra ever saying that she was part of any decision making. And it was run like a classroom.
This year a friend of mine and I decided WE would start a second junior troop. Our troop hasn't really earned any badges yet. We are working on the Sign of the Star and we will be earning all our badgework on a camping trip that we are planning (today as a matter of fact). (We only meet every other week so it cuts down on time for badges.)
BUT, the girls decide everything. THey pick what they want to do. They run the meetings. And they LOVE girl scouts. They've learned that making choices means that you have to priortize, and that sometimes we can't do things we otherwise might have done.
For example, we didin't have time to make things for the bazarr this year (which is this Saturday). But we ARE going shopping!!
Jenna is in the brownie troop. She doesn't read yet either. And I'm so thankful that her leader doesn't make an issue of it. I know she is wondering about it, but she doesn't ever embarass Jenna, at least never intentionally. Our junior leader is also the assistant brownie leader, so the three of us work together a lot. It really worked out well this year and I'm so pleased.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
It also seemed as though the leaders decided everything for the girls: which badges they worked on, etc. I don't remember Sierra ever saying that she was part of any decision making. And it was run like a classroom.
This year a friend of mine and I decided WE would start a second junior troop. Our troop hasn't really earned any badges yet. We are working on the Sign of the Star and we will be earning all our badgework on a camping trip that we are planning (today as a matter of fact). (We only meet every other week so it cuts down on time for badges.)
BUT, the girls decide everything. THey pick what they want to do. They run the meetings. And they LOVE girl scouts. They've learned that making choices means that you have to priortize, and that sometimes we can't do things we otherwise might have done.
For example, we didin't have time to make things for the bazarr this year (which is this Saturday). But we ARE going shopping!!
Jenna is in the brownie troop. She doesn't read yet either. And I'm so thankful that her leader doesn't make an issue of it. I know she is wondering about it, but she doesn't ever embarass Jenna, at least never intentionally. Our junior leader is also the assistant brownie leader, so the three of us work together a lot. It really worked out well this year and I'm so pleased.
Kristen
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Christina Morrissey
Hey Kristen,
I was sorry to hear about you Junior Scout experience.
It has been my experience that everything depends on the leader! My
daughter is the only homeschooled kid in her troop of 14 Juniors. But I am
a very involved mom. The leaders here let the girls decided at the
beginning of the year which badges to do and so on, but then during the
year at each individual meeting they do lead the meetings...I suspect that
if the whole troop were homeschoolers, we would do it entirely
differently. The "school" presence has something to do with it. Although
I understand that as they go up in "rank" they are expected to do most of
the stuff at meetings. I can't imagine a leader belittling like that
though. I know that I would have to let me leader know about my daughter
being homeschooled and if she could read or so, since they are so
systemized, but if the leader couldn't deal with that in an appropriate and
gentle manner, then that would not be the troop for us!!
Each troop can be so different as are the leaders. I'm glad you started
your own!!
Christina in Seattle area
At 02:02 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
I was sorry to hear about you Junior Scout experience.
It has been my experience that everything depends on the leader! My
daughter is the only homeschooled kid in her troop of 14 Juniors. But I am
a very involved mom. The leaders here let the girls decided at the
beginning of the year which badges to do and so on, but then during the
year at each individual meeting they do lead the meetings...I suspect that
if the whole troop were homeschoolers, we would do it entirely
differently. The "school" presence has something to do with it. Although
I understand that as they go up in "rank" they are expected to do most of
the stuff at meetings. I can't imagine a leader belittling like that
though. I know that I would have to let me leader know about my daughter
being homeschooled and if she could read or so, since they are so
systemized, but if the leader couldn't deal with that in an appropriate and
gentle manner, then that would not be the troop for us!!
Each troop can be so different as are the leaders. I'm glad you started
your own!!
Christina in Seattle area
At 02:02 PM 3/6/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>I just have to address the girl scouts thing. Last year my daughter was
>in a Junior troop and she hated it. When the Juliette Lowe Bazarr came
>around and they were all making things to sell, Sierra spelled something
>wrong on one of the items to sell. Spelling is not her strong suit, but
>its not for many people. The leader picked the item up and showed it to
>the whole troop, not naming who did it (but of course, who DIDNT know!),
>and made a stink about the spelling and how they couldn't sell that one.
>
>It also seemed as though the leaders decided everything for the girls:
>which badges they worked on, etc. I don't remember Sierra ever saying that
>she was part of any decision making. And it was run like a classroom.
>
>This year a friend of mine and I decided WE would start a second junior
>troop. Our troop hasn't really earned any badges yet. We are working on
>the Sign of the Star and we will be earning all our badgework on a camping
>trip that we are planning (today as a matter of fact). (We only meet
>every other week so it cuts down on time for badges.)
>
>BUT, the girls decide everything. THey pick what they want to do. They
>run the meetings. And they LOVE girl scouts. They've learned that making
>choices means that you have to priortize, and that sometimes we can't do
>things we otherwise might have done.
>
>For example, we didin't have time to make things for the bazarr this year
>(which is this Saturday). But we ARE going shopping!!
>
>Jenna is in the brownie troop. She doesn't read yet either. And I'm so
>thankful that her leader doesn't make an issue of it. I know she is
>wondering about it, but she doesn't ever embarass Jenna, at least never
>intentionally. Our junior leader is also the assistant brownie leader, so
>the three of us work together a lot. It really worked out well this year
>and I'm so pleased.
>
>Kristen
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
>If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
>the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list
>owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
>To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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