Re: defiance
zenmomma *
>>My name is Manon and I have a 2 1/2 year old ds. He is spirited and latelyHi Manon. It's been many years since I have parented a 2 1/2 year old, but
>>he seems to love to do anything he is not supposed to be doing.>>
I'm still parenting a spirited child. She's 9 now and the joys and
challenges just get more interesting as she gets older. ;-)
>>He will go in the room and close the door telling me not to come in andI know this must be so frustrating for you, but this just brought such a
>>either pee on the floor or eat paper or write on the walls.>>
smile to my face. I keep picturing your obviously bright, active, intense
little guy doing what he can to stir things up. I mean what better way to
get mom's attention than to give her advance notice of what's coming? :o)
Easy for me to say, it's not my little one peeing on the floor.
At 2 1/2 I would think he's just doing some "what happens if"
experimentation. My experience has been that these kinds of behaviors pass
and it's best not to get too upset. Just deal with each one as they come up.
>>We don't have a lot of rules (just what I consider essential). I know theWe all yell sometimes. Just be mindful the next time and in this moment. I
>>problem might be in my reactions as I will sometimes yell or overreact
>>when I just can't take it anymore. I usually try to remain calm and
>>explain to him why I don't like him doing that.>>
would also try to redirect him before he gets the chance to be alone to do
his mischief. When he asks to be alone and you know what's coming, I'd give
him a hug and a smile and try to get him interested somewhere else.
>>Sometimes it almost seems as if he wants me to go in the room and take theI'd try to anticipate when he was going to act out and redirect. If he did
>>paper or whatever out of his hands while he has a good cry in my arms.
>>It's like he's begging me to take control. What would you guys do? >>
something inappropriate I'd tell hime why it was not okay and get to
cleaning up or fixing the situation. If he needed me to hold him for a good
cry, I'd make that my first priority. I've found that my 9 yo still needs a
good cry now and then. It's like she's got excess energy and doesn't know
what to do with it. Sometimes we can't work it out with physical activity
and attention. Sometimes she just needs to vent. It's okay. It will pass.
Life is good.
~Mary
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Manon (Hotmail)
--It's okay. It will pass.--
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I so needed to hear that right now. It's nice to know I am not alone. Redirecting works wonderfully when I have the energy for it. This little guy is like the energizer bunny, he keeps going and going and going. Sometimes I see him going in the room and I know he's up to something, but I just want to breath for a couple of minutes before I go see him.
Manon
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I so needed to hear that right now. It's nice to know I am not alone. Redirecting works wonderfully when I have the energy for it. This little guy is like the energizer bunny, he keeps going and going and going. Sometimes I see him going in the room and I know he's up to something, but I just want to breath for a couple of minutes before I go see him.
Manon
----- Original Message -----
From: zenmomma *
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:59 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defiance
>>My name is Manon and I have a 2 1/2 year old ds. He is spirited and lately
>>he seems to love to do anything he is not supposed to be doing.>>
Hi Manon. It's been many years since I have parented a 2 1/2 year old, but
I'm still parenting a spirited child. She's 9 now and the joys and
challenges just get more interesting as she gets older. ;-)
>>He will go in the room and close the door telling me not to come in and
>>either pee on the floor or eat paper or write on the walls.>>
I know this must be so frustrating for you, but this just brought such a
smile to my face. I keep picturing your obviously bright, active, intense
little guy doing what he can to stir things up. I mean what better way to
get mom's attention than to give her advance notice of what's coming? :o)
Easy for me to say, it's not my little one peeing on the floor.
At 2 1/2 I would think he's just doing some "what happens if"
experimentation. My experience has been that these kinds of behaviors pass
and it's best not to get too upset. Just deal with each one as they come up.
>>We don't have a lot of rules (just what I consider essential). I know the
>>problem might be in my reactions as I will sometimes yell or overreact
>>when I just can't take it anymore. I usually try to remain calm and
>>explain to him why I don't like him doing that.>>
We all yell sometimes. Just be mindful the next time and in this moment. I
would also try to redirect him before he gets the chance to be alone to do
his mischief. When he asks to be alone and you know what's coming, I'd give
him a hug and a smile and try to get him interested somewhere else.
>>Sometimes it almost seems as if he wants me to go in the room and take the
>>paper or whatever out of his hands while he has a good cry in my arms.
>>It's like he's begging me to take control. What would you guys do? >>
I'd try to anticipate when he was going to act out and redirect. If he did
something inappropriate I'd tell hime why it was not okay and get to
cleaning up or fixing the situation. If he needed me to hold him for a good
cry, I'd make that my first priority. I've found that my 9 yo still needs a
good cry now and then. It's like she's got excess energy and doesn't know
what to do with it. Sometimes we can't work it out with physical activity
and attention. Sometimes she just needs to vent. It's okay. It will pass.
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
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Kelli Traaseth
Manon,
I don't have alot of advise for you, but I just want to tell you how lucky your son is that you are an unschooling Mom. You can see the wonderfulness in your son and be patient with these things.
The reason I am feeling this right now is that I have a friend right now whose son is acting out in ways that others would see as 'unacceptable'. He's in kindergarten and having a hard time with schedules and potty training and all that. Well, instead of allowing her son to be himself and grow with that, she is opting to making home an unattractive place so he wants to go back to school. I'm sooooo sad for him. He would thrive so well in a homeschooling/unschooled environment, but his mom thinks that the school is the best way to get him into shape. To me its like breaking his spirit. Poor guy.
So, thank goodness you know of unschooling and I'm sure its a phase and with your patience he'll flourish and grow to be a wonderful boy!
He's lucky to have you as his mom!
Kelli
"Manon (Hotmail)" <manon_brisson@...> wrote:--It's okay. It will pass.--
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I so needed to hear that right now. It's nice to know I am not alone. Redirecting works wonderfully when I have the energy for it. This little guy is like the energizer bunny, he keeps going and going and going. Sometimes I see him going in the room and I know he's up to something, but I just want to breath for a couple of minutes before I go see him.
Manon
I don't have alot of advise for you, but I just want to tell you how lucky your son is that you are an unschooling Mom. You can see the wonderfulness in your son and be patient with these things.
The reason I am feeling this right now is that I have a friend right now whose son is acting out in ways that others would see as 'unacceptable'. He's in kindergarten and having a hard time with schedules and potty training and all that. Well, instead of allowing her son to be himself and grow with that, she is opting to making home an unattractive place so he wants to go back to school. I'm sooooo sad for him. He would thrive so well in a homeschooling/unschooled environment, but his mom thinks that the school is the best way to get him into shape. To me its like breaking his spirit. Poor guy.
So, thank goodness you know of unschooling and I'm sure its a phase and with your patience he'll flourish and grow to be a wonderful boy!
He's lucky to have you as his mom!
Kelli
"Manon (Hotmail)" <manon_brisson@...> wrote:--It's okay. It will pass.--
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I so needed to hear that right now. It's nice to know I am not alone. Redirecting works wonderfully when I have the energy for it. This little guy is like the energizer bunny, he keeps going and going and going. Sometimes I see him going in the room and I know he's up to something, but I just want to breath for a couple of minutes before I go see him.
Manon
----- Original Message -----
From: zenmomma *
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:59 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defiance
>>My name is Manon and I have a 2 1/2 year old ds. He is spirited and lately
>>he seems to love to do anything he is not supposed to be doing.>>
Hi Manon. It's been many years since I have parented a 2 1/2 year old, but
I'm still parenting a spirited child. She's 9 now and the joys and
challenges just get more interesting as she gets older. ;-)
>>He will go in the room and close the door telling me not to come in and
>>either pee on the floor or eat paper or write on the walls.>>
I know this must be so frustrating for you, but this just brought such a
smile to my face. I keep picturing your obviously bright, active, intense
little guy doing what he can to stir things up. I mean what better way to
get mom's attention than to give her advance notice of what's coming? :o)
Easy for me to say, it's not my little one peeing on the floor.
At 2 1/2 I would think he's just doing some "what happens if"
experimentation. My experience has been that these kinds of behaviors pass
and it's best not to get too upset. Just deal with each one as they come up.
>>We don't have a lot of rules (just what I consider essential). I know the
>>problem might be in my reactions as I will sometimes yell or overreact
>>when I just can't take it anymore. I usually try to remain calm and
>>explain to him why I don't like him doing that.>>
We all yell sometimes. Just be mindful the next time and in this moment. I
would also try to redirect him before he gets the chance to be alone to do
his mischief. When he asks to be alone and you know what's coming, I'd give
him a hug and a smile and try to get him interested somewhere else.
>>Sometimes it almost seems as if he wants me to go in the room and take the
>>paper or whatever out of his hands while he has a good cry in my arms.
>>It's like he's begging me to take control. What would you guys do? >>
I'd try to anticipate when he was going to act out and redirect. If he did
something inappropriate I'd tell hime why it was not okay and get to
cleaning up or fixing the situation. If he needed me to hold him for a good
cry, I'd make that my first priority. I've found that my 9 yo still needs a
good cry now and then. It's like she's got excess energy and doesn't know
what to do with it. Sometimes we can't work it out with physical activity
and attention. Sometimes she just needs to vent. It's okay. It will pass.
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
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[email protected]
In a message dated 2/27/03 4:54:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellitraas@... writes:
> . Well, instead of allowing her son to be himself and grow with that,How truly sad to have no safe place to be.
> she is opting to making home an unattractive place so he wants to go back
> to school.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
I know, I keep thinking how can I get my homeschooling/unschooling ideas into her head. I brought it up, that I thought he would really do well with homeschooling and she pretty much dismissed me.
She doesn't even know what unschooling is. So she just thinks about trying to sit with him and force him to read and write! I have said several times that we don't do it like that but its not getting in to her brain.
Its so aggravating.
Kelli
genant2@... wrote:In a message dated 2/27/03 4:54:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
She doesn't even know what unschooling is. So she just thinks about trying to sit with him and force him to read and write! I have said several times that we don't do it like that but its not getting in to her brain.
Its so aggravating.
Kelli
genant2@... wrote:In a message dated 2/27/03 4:54:40 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
> . Well, instead of allowing her son to be himself and grow with that,How truly sad to have no safe place to be.
> she is opting to making home an unattractive place so he wants to go back
> to school.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Manon (Hotmail)
--He's lucky to have you as his mom!--
Thank you Kelli! I used to be a kindergarden teacher so I know what you mean. There was this one little girl who was spirited and her mom kept her out of school until kindergarden. She finally enrolled her in school and that is exactly what we tried to do (me, the principal, the other teachers), we tried to break her spirit. This mom was such a great parent but her mistake was to think that the school would somehow get her into shape like you said. I often tell people who say to me that I can homeschool because I am a schoolteacher that the only thing I learned when I was a teacher was that I do not want to send my children to school and I do not want to teach them. I wasn't a parent then and I did not question the value of school. I feel like calling up this little girl's mom sometimes and tell what a wonderful child she has and tell about unschooling and how I think this little girl would benefit from that. Who knows maybe someday I will.
Thanks
Manon
Thank you Kelli! I used to be a kindergarden teacher so I know what you mean. There was this one little girl who was spirited and her mom kept her out of school until kindergarden. She finally enrolled her in school and that is exactly what we tried to do (me, the principal, the other teachers), we tried to break her spirit. This mom was such a great parent but her mistake was to think that the school would somehow get her into shape like you said. I often tell people who say to me that I can homeschool because I am a schoolteacher that the only thing I learned when I was a teacher was that I do not want to send my children to school and I do not want to teach them. I wasn't a parent then and I did not question the value of school. I feel like calling up this little girl's mom sometimes and tell what a wonderful child she has and tell about unschooling and how I think this little girl would benefit from that. Who knows maybe someday I will.
Thanks
Manon
----- Original Message -----
From: Kelli Traaseth
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 4:53 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defiance
Manon,
I don't have alot of advise for you, but I just want to tell you how lucky your son is that you are an unschooling Mom. You can see the wonderfulness in your son and be patient with these things.
The reason I am feeling this right now is that I have a friend right now whose son is acting out in ways that others would see as 'unacceptable'. He's in kindergarten and having a hard time with schedules and potty training and all that. Well, instead of allowing her son to be himself and grow with that, she is opting to making home an unattractive place so he wants to go back to school. I'm sooooo sad for him. He would thrive so well in a homeschooling/unschooled environment, but his mom thinks that the school is the best way to get him into shape. To me its like breaking his spirit. Poor guy.
So, thank goodness you know of unschooling and I'm sure its a phase and with your patience he'll flourish and grow to be a wonderful boy!
He's lucky to have you as his mom!
Kelli
"Manon (Hotmail)" <manon_brisson@...> wrote:--It's okay. It will pass.--
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I so needed to hear that right now. It's nice to know I am not alone. Redirecting works wonderfully when I have the energy for it. This little guy is like the energizer bunny, he keeps going and going and going. Sometimes I see him going in the room and I know he's up to something, but I just want to breath for a couple of minutes before I go see him.
Manon
----- Original Message -----
From: zenmomma *
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 12:59 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defiance
>>My name is Manon and I have a 2 1/2 year old ds. He is spirited and lately
>>he seems to love to do anything he is not supposed to be doing.>>
Hi Manon. It's been many years since I have parented a 2 1/2 year old, but
I'm still parenting a spirited child. She's 9 now and the joys and
challenges just get more interesting as she gets older. ;-)
>>He will go in the room and close the door telling me not to come in and
>>either pee on the floor or eat paper or write on the walls.>>
I know this must be so frustrating for you, but this just brought such a
smile to my face. I keep picturing your obviously bright, active, intense
little guy doing what he can to stir things up. I mean what better way to
get mom's attention than to give her advance notice of what's coming? :o)
Easy for me to say, it's not my little one peeing on the floor.
At 2 1/2 I would think he's just doing some "what happens if"
experimentation. My experience has been that these kinds of behaviors pass
and it's best not to get too upset. Just deal with each one as they come up.
>>We don't have a lot of rules (just what I consider essential). I know the
>>problem might be in my reactions as I will sometimes yell or overreact
>>when I just can't take it anymore. I usually try to remain calm and
>>explain to him why I don't like him doing that.>>
We all yell sometimes. Just be mindful the next time and in this moment. I
would also try to redirect him before he gets the chance to be alone to do
his mischief. When he asks to be alone and you know what's coming, I'd give
him a hug and a smile and try to get him interested somewhere else.
>>Sometimes it almost seems as if he wants me to go in the room and take the
>>paper or whatever out of his hands while he has a good cry in my arms.
>>It's like he's begging me to take control. What would you guys do? >>
I'd try to anticipate when he was going to act out and redirect. If he did
something inappropriate I'd tell hime why it was not okay and get to
cleaning up or fixing the situation. If he needed me to hold him for a good
cry, I'd make that my first priority. I've found that my 9 yo still needs a
good cry now and then. It's like she's got excess energy and doesn't know
what to do with it. Sometimes we can't work it out with physical activity
and attention. Sometimes she just needs to vent. It's okay. It will pass.
Life is good.
~Mary
_________________________________________________________________
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Andrea
At 10:33 PM 2/27/03 -0500, Manon wrote:
she would be pleased. Our "spirited" children are so undervalued.
I used to attend Beavers (like boy Scouts for 5-7-year-olds) with my middle
son because he did not like to stay without me, then I was a Leader for a
brief time. There were so many "spirited" boys whom I thought were just
normal boys of that age. I loved being around their energy and seeing the
joy they had in moving, yelling, and being with their friends. Instead of
going with this natural state, the other Leaders felt it was their job to
get them to settle down and do things like crafts, most of which they had
no interest in. Of course our job was to lead them in some way but it
should be something they can benefit from like learning about the outdoors.
One of the other Leaders, a mom of twin boys, thought I was nuts for
enjoying being there. She just tolerated it for her sons. Though I guess
she was doing better than the parents who couldn't wait to drop their kids
off and never volunteered to help, which all parents were supposed to do on
occasion.
The reason my son didn't want to stay, I found out, is that the favourite
punishment was to stand the child in a corner facing the wall in a time
out. I think Eric had never been so humiliated in his life.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia
mailto:andrea@...
> I feel like calling up this little girl's mom sometimes and tell what aDo you think she would think you are crazy or would she be pleased? I hope
> wonderful child she has and tell about unschooling and how I think this
> little girl would benefit from that. Who knows maybe someday I will.
she would be pleased. Our "spirited" children are so undervalued.
I used to attend Beavers (like boy Scouts for 5-7-year-olds) with my middle
son because he did not like to stay without me, then I was a Leader for a
brief time. There were so many "spirited" boys whom I thought were just
normal boys of that age. I loved being around their energy and seeing the
joy they had in moving, yelling, and being with their friends. Instead of
going with this natural state, the other Leaders felt it was their job to
get them to settle down and do things like crafts, most of which they had
no interest in. Of course our job was to lead them in some way but it
should be something they can benefit from like learning about the outdoors.
One of the other Leaders, a mom of twin boys, thought I was nuts for
enjoying being there. She just tolerated it for her sons. Though I guess
she was doing better than the parents who couldn't wait to drop their kids
off and never volunteered to help, which all parents were supposed to do on
occasion.
The reason my son didn't want to stay, I found out, is that the favourite
punishment was to stand the child in a corner facing the wall in a time
out. I think Eric had never been so humiliated in his life.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia
mailto:andrea@...
Andrea
Manon, I also wanted to respond about your son. He sounds a lot like my
youngest, Simon, who is now three-and-a-half. Simon has been early with
everything (walked at seven months, ran at eight months). I used to say he
was three boys rolled into one - it certainly seemed sometimes that he was
three places at once :-)
I don't have any better advice for you than you have already gotten from
others. I do a lot of calming breaths. He has gotten much better. I can
actually sit down and relax my nerves once in a while. Up till recently I
was like a lion on the hunt, always ready to spring, always listening for
every sound :-) It was exhausting but he is such a terrific kid - so much
energy and love of life.
Does anyone remember that Simpsons episode where Marge makes the whole
family clean up the house until it is spotless? Then you see Homer and the
kids go into the kitchen. The swinging door shows a gleaming kitchen as
they go in, then as it swings back you see it is trashed again. That's
what our house is like. We pick up the living room, I go in the kitchen for
15 minutes to cook supper, and the living room is completely wrecked. You
can't deny we actually live in our house.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia
mailto:andrea@...
youngest, Simon, who is now three-and-a-half. Simon has been early with
everything (walked at seven months, ran at eight months). I used to say he
was three boys rolled into one - it certainly seemed sometimes that he was
three places at once :-)
I don't have any better advice for you than you have already gotten from
others. I do a lot of calming breaths. He has gotten much better. I can
actually sit down and relax my nerves once in a while. Up till recently I
was like a lion on the hunt, always ready to spring, always listening for
every sound :-) It was exhausting but he is such a terrific kid - so much
energy and love of life.
Does anyone remember that Simpsons episode where Marge makes the whole
family clean up the house until it is spotless? Then you see Homer and the
kids go into the kitchen. The swinging door shows a gleaming kitchen as
they go in, then as it swings back you see it is trashed again. That's
what our house is like. We pick up the living room, I go in the kitchen for
15 minutes to cook supper, and the living room is completely wrecked. You
can't deny we actually live in our house.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia
mailto:andrea@...
Manon (Hotmail)
Hi Donna Andrea,
Just reading your posts and laughing my head off at your descriptions is taking away a lot of stress. This is very good therapy. Thank you.
Manon in Ottawa
Just reading your posts and laughing my head off at your descriptions is taking away a lot of stress. This is very good therapy. Thank you.
Manon in Ottawa
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 5:49 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defiance
Manon, I also wanted to respond about your son. He sounds a lot like my
youngest, Simon, who is now three-and-a-half. Simon has been early with
everything (walked at seven months, ran at eight months). I used to say he
was three boys rolled into one - it certainly seemed sometimes that he was
three places at once :-)
I don't have any better advice for you than you have already gotten from
others. I do a lot of calming breaths. He has gotten much better. I can
actually sit down and relax my nerves once in a while. Up till recently I
was like a lion on the hunt, always ready to spring, always listening for
every sound :-) It was exhausting but he is such a terrific kid - so much
energy and love of life.
Does anyone remember that Simpsons episode where Marge makes the whole
family clean up the house until it is spotless? Then you see Homer and the
kids go into the kitchen. The swinging door shows a gleaming kitchen as
they go in, then as it swings back you see it is trashed again. That's
what our house is like. We pick up the living room, I go in the kitchen for
15 minutes to cook supper, and the living room is completely wrecked. You
can't deny we actually live in our house.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia
mailto:andrea@...
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Manon (Hotmail)
I am not sure how she would feel about it. I guess that is why I am not calling her. Also a lot of time has passed, that was over 3 years ago but she did have a younger son who would be just starting school now and who also seemed spirited. The more I think about it the more I want to call her. BTW, my heart just broke for your poor son. Thank god he has a great mom like you to protect him.
Manon in Ottawa
Manon in Ottawa
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrea
To: [email protected]
Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 5:30 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: defiance
At 10:33 PM 2/27/03 -0500, Manon wrote:
> I feel like calling up this little girl's mom sometimes and tell what a
> wonderful child she has and tell about unschooling and how I think this
> little girl would benefit from that. Who knows maybe someday I will.
Do you think she would think you are crazy or would she be pleased? I hope
she would be pleased. Our "spirited" children are so undervalued.
I used to attend Beavers (like boy Scouts for 5-7-year-olds) with my middle
son because he did not like to stay without me, then I was a Leader for a
brief time. There were so many "spirited" boys whom I thought were just
normal boys of that age. I loved being around their energy and seeing the
joy they had in moving, yelling, and being with their friends. Instead of
going with this natural state, the other Leaders felt it was their job to
get them to settle down and do things like crafts, most of which they had
no interest in. Of course our job was to lead them in some way but it
should be something they can benefit from like learning about the outdoors.
One of the other Leaders, a mom of twin boys, thought I was nuts for
enjoying being there. She just tolerated it for her sons. Though I guess
she was doing better than the parents who couldn't wait to drop their kids
off and never volunteered to help, which all parents were supposed to do on
occasion.
The reason my son didn't want to stay, I found out, is that the favourite
punishment was to stand the child in a corner facing the wall in a time
out. I think Eric had never been so humiliated in his life.
Donna Andrea in Nova Scotia
mailto:andrea@...
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