Robyn Carter

Hello, all you unschoolers...
I wanted to offer a response to several posts-here goes!
Thank you, Sandra, for reminding me to "look into her eyes, and ask her what
she's not getting at home..." (I think that's pretty close to how you said
it). Of course I had been doing that, but your suggestion reminded me to try
again, and we (13 yo dd and myself) sat at the table and made a list. That
seemed to help, because for the last weeks she's been happier and so am I.
I also wanted to comment on the post about late readers (sorry, I've
forgotten who that was). The 13yo dd I mentioned above sounds alot like your
daughter-physical, creative and bright-and she didn't really read til she
was about 11. Yes, I'm sure there was some damage to her self esteem, mostly
from other children. I remember one girl in particular saying to her "you
can't be in my play, coz you have to read..." :-( She could read words, but
not chapter books then. Now at 13 she's a voracious reader! I never really
figured out a way to "help" her, I was reading when I started 1st
grade,(which did not go over well with the teacher-I spent most of my school
life getting in trouble for reading books I hid under my desk! and I'd get
busted because I'd forget and laugh out loud during history class, or
whatever boring subject it was.), so I figured she'd read when she was
ready. I have heard that when children are tested, later, you cannot
differentiate the late from early readers.
"cigarette smoking, sitting on their butts Texas moms..."
I wish I had copied your exact quote, Sandra! it was brilliant, and I want
you to know that there's a Missouri version! I was raised, sort of, by one
of those. I say sort of, because my sister and brothers and I like to say
she didn't raise us, we just grew up. Okay, I'll go back to lurking now.
Thanks to all of you for everything you do...
Robyn

----- Original Message -----
From: <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:27 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Digest Number 3068


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There are 25 messages in this issue.

Topics in this digest:

1. this list has forced me again
From: starsuncloud@...
2. Re: Re: this list has forced me again
From: SandraDodd@...
3. Re: Digest Number 3067
From: Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...>
4. Re: Re: this list has forced me again
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
5. Re: Re: this list has forced me again
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
6. RE: Re: this list has forced me again
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
7. RE: this list has forced me again
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
8. RE: Mary B
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
9. Re: Mary B
From: "Flicker-N-Suds" <craun@...>
10. Re: boxes was Re: this list has forced me again
From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
11. Re: Mary B
From: Rachel Ann <hindar@...>
12. RE: Re: this list has forced me again
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
13. RE: Mary B
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
14. Re: this list has forced me again
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
15. Parent-Child conflicts
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
16. Re: Re: this list has forced me again
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
17. Re: Re: this list has forced me again
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
18. Re: Mary B
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
19. Re: Mary B
From: "Flicker-N-Suds" <craun@...>
20. Re: Differing Opinions/Perspective
From: Liza Sabater <liza@...>
21. Re: Differing Opinions/Perspective
From: SandraDodd@...
22. Intro and advice request
From: Heidi and Brent Ricks <rickshei@...>
23. Re: Intro and advice request
From: SandraDodd@...
24. Re: Re: this list has forced me again
From: genant2@...
25. Re: this list has forced me again--fractals
From: "kayb85 <sheran@...>" <sheran@...>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 1
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:43:25 EST
From: starsuncloud@...
Subject: this list has forced me again

In a message dated 2/23/03 1:27:52 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< Maybe there are drugs for that!

And if there is such a drug, maybe any teacher with more than two ADHD kids
in a class could take that drug so the kids could be drug-free and the
teacher would be calm and happy amidst chaos! >>

YEAH!! That's exactly what they should do in school, drug the teacher, NOT
the kids!! I really, really like that.

I am starting to treat dh with homeopathics to see if it helps take the edge
off...but he's gonna hafta deal with a lot. We're getting three ratties
coming to live with us, yippeee!!
He doesn't care for the chaos already, and we're adding three rats to the
brew....sigh.
What is so great is that he does have his own area, separate from the rest
of
the house.
That's the perfect solution for our family.
Everyone gets their needs met and the kids don't suffer the anality of their
Dad's cleaning habits.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers
are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:48:15 EST
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: Re: this list has forced me again


In a message dated 2/23/03 11:32:12 AM, nellebelle@... writes:

<< Our garage is full of neatly shelved boxes of mostly junk. Dh and
I are both genetic pack rats. He actually said we are saving the stuff in
the garage so that the kids can keep it in their garages when they grow up.
With a straight face. >>

This morning I made Kirby the offer to keep his pogs and old toys in my
"paper room" (where we are starting to move filing cabinets and old boxes of
stuff we just can't throw away). With no hint of disapproval of his keeping
such things, Keith said "I have some empty xerox boxes in the garage."

After weeks of asking Kirby to at least find all the clothes in his room,
and
of it getting to the point that we have to move piles of cards and such to
find a place to sit, and of Kirby being grumpy that things are lost or bent,
I finally asked a young grown female friend of his (from his anime club) who
hangs around with him at least once a week anyway, if she would please help
him clean his room. She's agree, and after midterms they'll have a fun day
of "OOOH! You have one of these! How COOL!"

Kirby has Ninja Turtle stuff. Lots of it. Really good stuff. I don't want
to ask him to get rid of that. I just want him to be able to open his
closet door and use the clothes rack. And to find various videos other
people have missed watching since Kirby took them to his room a year ago.

Sandra


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 3
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:41:22 +0100
From: Alan & Brenda Leonard <abtleo@...>
Subject: Re: Digest Number 3067

2/23/03 20:27:

> Did I mention the 3 moving boxes in the living room? Jackie has been
making
> things with boxes for a while and kept saying she needed a bigger box. It
> finally occurred to me to buy her one. I took her to a moving place and
she
> picked out a wardrobe box. She was SO happy. Well worth the $10. She
told
> me I was The Best Mom.

Gee, I'd like to get that kind of credit for coming up with boxes. I do
that all the time. I live in a military community. Getting boxes involves
intercepting the new neighbors on the stairs, before they collapse and
recycle all their boxes! Cheap fun.

Right now my little Calvin-maniac is working on a transmorgifier. He's
upset that it doesn't work like Calvin's yet. I'm doing my part to help
with it by buying more Calvin and Hobbs books. Two today -- the one decent
English-language bookstore actually had some we didn't already own! Hooray!

brenda



________________________________________________________________________
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Message: 4
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:38:09 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: Re: Re: this list has forced me again

>From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>

<<I do get so frustrated when we want to do something, but need to clear
away something else first and don't have anywhere to put the something else.
I've been working on organizing our stuff, but I think I'm doing a lousy job
because it's all still pretty disorganized. I have given away so much stuff
in the last couple of years and the house is still overflowing. I struggle
to find that balance between simplicity and frugal living. One thing that
has helped me a little is to focus on MY stuff. I have realized that it
isn't fair to tell them what to keep or give away. Also, STUFF keeps
flowing into our house. We simply do not have the space to continually
acquire stuff without also eliminating stuff. Help!! I do get grumpy when
every surface in the house is covered.>>



If you want clutter away and stuff saved gone, you have to go through the
stuff regularly. That is of course unless you actually want to be a packrat.
My dad was, my husband is and so is Tara. Tara saves shirts she no longer
fits into just because Grandma or Aunt so and so gave it to her.

Stuff is always going to be coming into the house. But some stuff, after
awhile, can go. Stuff like books and movies and games, well that stuff I
always keep because one never knows when someone won't find the urge to
watch or do or play. But other toys and clothes that aren't worn and things
old saved because they were just put away and forgotten about, I get rid of.
I go through clothes closets every 3 months and get rid of whatever doesn't
fit well or hasn't been worn since I went through it the last time. I have
the kids go through their stuff once a year in Oct. That's when our church
has their bazaar and takes donations of everything. It also gives the kids a
chance to sort through things and make room for Christmas! They like the
whole donation idea too. Sometimes things are put aside at other times and
if we have enough, we donate to other organizations also.

I try to keep up on my husbands stuff too but only really have success with
is clothes. I must also say here that the kids stuff is always by their
choice. I never talk them into getting rid of anything. I wish I could talk
my husband into it though. He saves everything. I regularly go through his
stuff and just throw out receipts and wrappings from things he bought. I
think he could easily be one of those people you see on TV who can't get rid
of anything. (only half kidding here!) The only boxes of anything in this
house not used is my husbands. It's the only way I can deal with his stuff.
Put in it a box and maybe in 2 years he'll go through it. No boxes of
anything else not being played with or used for decorations at one time or
another.

My stuff is a bare minimum. Only what I use and a few keepsakes. I do have
one small stuff of baby things from when all the kids were little.

Mary B


_________________________________________________________________
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Message: 5
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:53:41 -0800
From: "nellebelle" <nellebelle@...>
Subject: Re: Re: this list has forced me again

Oh, is that what those long, round things in the closet are for?

I just want him to be able to open his
> closet door and use the clothes rack.



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 6
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:19:27 -0500
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
Subject: RE: Re: this list has forced me again

> My kids have a whole cupboard in the playroom of stuff like
> that. All kinds
> of paints, glitter, glues, felt, ribbon, yard, different
> kinds of scissors,
> stencils, eyes, pom poms, pipe cleaners, beads, etc. We
> always have tons of
> paper here too along with all kinds of crayons and markers.
> My kids very
> rarely get into that stuff. I keep thinking maybe it's
> because of me not
> being craft minded.

Oh my goodness! This is good to hear. When I worry about unschooling I have
no fears
about math or the such, but I do feel as if I am depriving them in the arts
and crafts
department LOL! We have tons of supplies as well, but my kids don't do much
with them
either. My oldest hates to draw (he wants his pictures to look right and
they never
(in his eyes) do). If I come up with a project, they enjoy it, but they
rarely just
pick up craft supplies and create. My youngest seems a little better at this
though. I
remember reading on unschooling.com about the tons of things that someone's
kids
did with a box of popsicle sticks and realizing that we had a box that has
been sitting
there untouched for months...

I have found that both boys like rubber stamping (my main hobby) and I guess
that I need
to pull out my inks and stamps again to get the juices flowing!

Stephanie E.
>


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 7
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:19:27 -0500
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
Subject: RE: this list has forced me again

> << Cleaning isn't like that for me. I guess maybe I've been
> like that all my
> life. It's easy for me to do. I enjoy doing it and it's also
> important for
> me. To be neat and clean. To have a place for everything. So
> THAT'S part of
> who I am. >>

I do think that there is a genetic component to this...my dh is just
naturally a
neat person as is one of my best friends. And I see this in my boys...my 6
yo is
not really into cleaning and helps out sometimes (if there is a good reason
like
needing room to play a game). Kyle (my 3 yo) on the other hand LOVES to help
me
clean. And I mean he really actually helps...he helps me unload the entire
car
when we food shop, he loves to dust, he loves to help me make the bed and
the other day when we were folding clothes he wanted to learn how to fold
shirts.
It just cracks me up and is so cute. I have told dh that I have decided that
Kyle
and he should have full responsibility for keeping the house clean since it
is
in their genes...that Jason and I should be exempt since it just isn't in
our nature.
:o)

Stephanie E.


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 8
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:19:27 -0500
From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>
Subject: RE: Mary B


> Even though I had nothing to do with this post, I sure could
> use someone good
> at cleaning so your post made me think ME, ME, ME! I want
> help and I am on
> the East coast but not in FLA. though! Just thought I would
> share! Lynn F

Hey if you are making an east coast tour, be sure to stop by Virgina!
And I know that Sheila is in Pa, so you would definitely need a midway
stopping point!

Stephanie E


________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 9
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:22:00 -0500
From: "Flicker-N-Suds" <craun@...>
Subject: Re: Mary B

Hey if you are making an east coast tour, be sure to stop by Virgina!
And I know that Sheila is in Pa, so you would definitely need a midway
stopping point!

Stephanie E
>>>
Ditto the VA stop as that is where we are at :o)

Sherry
Unschooling Soap Diva WAHM to 4 :o)
www.flicker-n-suds.com
Welcome to the world of Sinful Suds, Luscious Lotions, Funky Fibers and
MORE!
"Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire."
Wm. Butler Yeats





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 10
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:56:50 -0700
From: "zenmomma *" <zenmomma@...>
Subject: Re: boxes was Re: this list has forced me again



>>I took her to a moving place and she picked out a wardrobe box.>>

When the kids were younger, I once made them a castle out of 2 wardrobe
boxes plus 2 smaller ones. The wardrobes were the tall turrets on either
end. The other boxes were flattened out and attached in between to be the
body of the castle. We even had windows, secret passages and a working
drawbridge.

It was very cool. My kids still love boxes.

Life is good.
~Mary


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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 11
Date: Sun, 23 Mar 2003 17:25:06 -0500 (Eastern Standard Time)
From: Rachel Ann <hindar@...>
Subject: Re: Mary B

Mary I'm booking you in...
We'll need a lot of help before Passover.
Can you come on the 23-28 of March?
Just head over to Passaic, NJ...foods free!

:-)

be well,
Rachel Ann




-------Original Message-------

From: [email protected]
Date: Sunday, February 23, 2003 16:21:55
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Mary B

Hey if you are making an east coast tour, be sure to stop by Virgina!
And I know that Sheila is in Pa, so you would definitely need a midway
stopping point!

Stephanie E
>>>
Ditto the VA stop as that is where we are at :o)

Sherry
Unschooling Soap Diva WAHM to 4 :o)
www.flicker-n-suds.com
Welcome to the world of Sinful Suds, Luscious Lotions, Funky Fibers and
MORE!
"Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire."
Wm. Butler Yeats





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

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.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 12
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:01:50 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: RE: Re: this list has forced me again

>From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>

<<Oh my goodness! This is good to hear. When I worry about unschooling I
have no fears about math or the such, but I do feel as if I am depriving
them in the arts and crafts department LOL! We have tons of supplies as
well, but my kids don't do much with them
either>>


Okay Stephanie E, we can be artsy misfits together!!!! When you mentioned
the rubber stamping, I remembered we also have a ton of those in that same
cabinet too. That lasted when we first got them but they've been in there so
long, I had forgotten about them. But that's one of the things I would never
get rid of. Who knows when someone's creative juices may get flowing in
another direction.

Mary B


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Message: 13
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:05:10 +0000
From: "Mary Bianco" <mummyone24@...>
Subject: RE: Mary B

Looks like I should be mapping out a tour of the east coast. It can be my
east coast clean up tour. Unfortunately when I get back home, my house will
definitely look like I've been gone. And of course I could never leave my
family in the first place so you may all have to wait until the kids are
grown!!!

Mary B

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Message: 14
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:21:41 -0500
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
Subject: Re: this list has forced me again

You know, I've been putting a lot of these ideas into practice, and I have
to admit,

I LIKE cleaning up. I LIKE giving my kids the opportunity to be messy and
not be obligated all the time to "clean it up".

There are definitely times that it really works on my nerves, but much less
than before.

now if I could only convince my husband LOL. I think he thinks I'm being
too "permissive".

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: starsuncloud@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 12:42 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] this list has forced me again


In a message dated 2/22/03 11:20:44 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:

<< But giving kids free access to craft stuff, tons of toys, and letting
them eat pretend cat food in bowls makes for a messy house. >>

NO KIDDING!! My poor dh is doomed to feeling slightly edgy around us all
the
time.
He eyes the project that is starting up, asks if I know what's going on, I
wave a nonchalant hand and tell him that yes, I do know and don't worry
about
it and he just slinks off to his hideout.
Later, when things are disastrous, he gives me this "I told you this would
happen" kind of look....but bites his tongue.
Yesterday, it was bingo markers, stamped so hard on the paper that they
splattered the floor and table with ink. He looked positively ill.
I just don't have much sympathy for him anymore, as sad as that may be.
I think he should have a clue how I operate by now, if not, oh well....:)
The
kids sanity is more important to me than his. I only say that because he
has
his own area of the house to go to....and I refuse to make myself insane
trying to keep it to his standard.
I try to get things straightened to help him feel calm, but with four
creative kids, there is no way it'll look like his perfect corner of the
house!!!
I wish I knew how to help him feel calm amidst chaos...it's a learned art
I
think.

Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers
are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."

----Frances Hodgson Burnett

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 15
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:23:10 -0500
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
Subject: Parent-Child conflicts

I just had a thought the other day.

I wonder how much of the conflict between parents and children really has to
do with how a child's behavior is assumed to be a reflection on his/her
parents and their parenting.

I am guessing 90% of the "rules" that abound in most homes comes directly
from parents worrying about their own image.

Kristen
****************************************************************

Today is even more important than tomorrow because "today" is a gift, and
"tomorrow" might never come.

Today is where hope lives because today is when we can make things better
than yesterday.

The only thing we can be sure of is today and life isn't worth living if it
isn't lived in joy for as many moments of today as we can manage.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________

Message: 16
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:33:40 -0500
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
Subject: Re: Re: this list has forced me again



>>But giving kids free access to craft stuff, tons of toys, and letting
them eat pretend cat food in bowls makes for a messy house.>>

Oh and forts!! My house always gets overrun by forts made wherever out of
whatever. :o)

Oh my gosh!!!
Ours too. In fact, the latest is that the girls took the mattresses off
their bunk beds and are sleeping on the floor while they converted the top
bunk into a fort with lacy curtains hanging along the sides from the
ceiling. Its actually pretty cool.

2 weeks ago, the forts were in the living room and before that they were
behind the spiral staircase in the basement LOL.

Forts are a favorite around here. My son just built a snow fort outside
in all this great snow we got last weekend. I did warn him about the
possibility of collapse. He used walls and a plywood ceiling that he then
covered with snow.

Smart kid :o).

Kristen



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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________________________________________________________________________

Message: 17
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:36:47 -0500
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
Subject: Re: Re: this list has forced me again

I'm finding that when I sit down and just start to do crafty stuff, the kids
will stumble upon me and join in.

I am NOT crafty by any means. I can't even wrap a gift right. But the
other day i was drawing fractal images (Idea from I hate Mathematics or Math
Wizardry, I forget which). I was making tree like fractals with all
different colors. The girls were really into it and made some of their own.

THEN we got on the computer and found some REALLY COOL computer generated
fractals. You should see them. We are using them for our desktops.

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Elms
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: this list has forced me again


> My kids have a whole cupboard in the playroom of stuff like
> that. All kinds
> of paints, glitter, glues, felt, ribbon, yard, different
> kinds of scissors,
> stencils, eyes, pom poms, pipe cleaners, beads, etc. We
> always have tons of
> paper here too along with all kinds of crayons and markers.
> My kids very
> rarely get into that stuff. I keep thinking maybe it's
> because of me not
> being craft minded.

Oh my goodness! This is good to hear. When I worry about unschooling I
have no fears
about math or the such, but I do feel as if I am depriving them in the
arts and crafts
department LOL! We have tons of supplies as well, but my kids don't do
much with them
either. My oldest hates to draw (he wants his pictures to look right and
they never
(in his eyes) do). If I come up with a project, they enjoy it, but they
rarely just
pick up craft supplies and create. My youngest seems a little better at
this though. I
remember reading on unschooling.com about the tons of things that
someone's kids
did with a box of popsicle sticks and realizing that we had a box that has
been sitting
there untouched for months...

I have found that both boys like rubber stamping (my main hobby) and I
guess that I need
to pull out my inks and stamps again to get the juices flowing!

Stephanie E.
>

Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT




~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~

If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).

To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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Message: 18
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:38:12 -0500
From: Have a Nice Day! <litlrooh@...>
Subject: Re: Mary B

I'm in PA too!!!

I am always glad for an extra cleaning hand LOL

Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Stephanie Elms
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 4:19 PM
Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] Mary B



> Even though I had nothing to do with this post, I sure could
> use someone good
> at cleaning so your post made me think ME, ME, ME! I want
> help and I am on
> the East coast but not in FLA. though! Just thought I would
> share! Lynn F

Hey if you are making an east coast tour, be sure to stop by Virgina!
And I know that Sheila is in Pa, so you would definitely need a midway
stopping point!

Stephanie E

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Message: 19
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:52:23 -0500
From: "Flicker-N-Suds" <craun@...>
Subject: Re: Mary B

Well Mary kids of course HAVE to come too :o)

Sherry
Unschooling Soap Diva WAHM to 4 :o)
www.flicker-n-suds.com
Welcome to the world of Sinful Suds, Luscious Lotions, Funky Fibers and
MORE!
"Education is not the filling of a bucket, but the lighting of a fire."
Wm. Butler Yeats





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Message: 20
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:07:01 -0500
From: Liza Sabater <liza@...>
Subject: Re: Differing Opinions/Perspective

My brother fought in the first Persian War and I still opposed that
war. What does having someone in the armed forces got to do with?
Still, if there ever was a crowd who would have appreciated Terry
Jones' humor was on this list (and I did get a few notes from people
who appreciated it). I see no reason for censorship which I see as
diametrically opposed to unschooling. Goes to show there are always
contradictions and conflicts in any system. Tant pis.

Liza




On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 11:12 AM, Lorna w Goodman wrote:

> And there could also be families here with a differing opinion; for the
> life of me I can't understand how lampooning the U.S. or inflaming
> others
> about the situation in Iraq helps me as I unschool my children...if we
> are to model tolerance for our children then let us apply that
> tolerance
> across the board. Propaganda works both ways.
>
> Thank you Joyce,
> Lorna Goodman
>
> Joyce wrote: "Let's do our best not to bring up the subject of Iraq.
> There are families here with loved ones who could be involved and the
> subject is a painful one for them. Thanks."
>


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Message: 21
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:24:56 EST
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: Differing Opinions/Perspective


In a message dated 2/23/03 5:05:39 PM, liza@... writes:

<< I see no reason for censorship which I see as

diametrically opposed to unschooling. >>

It wasn't censorship. It was a request for courtesy, which isn't opposed to
unschooling.

It was a request for staying on topic, which is fine. It's a big damned
internet, and you can read all the war humor and commentary and cartoons and
rude animations and play-by-play commentary anyone could ever want on the
internet.

Censorship would be someone keeping this list from existing.
You can start your own list and discuss ANYTHING without being censored, but
on someone else's list you're limited to what they want to allow.

Sandra


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Message: 22
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:26:45 -0500
From: Heidi and Brent Ricks <rickshei@...>
Subject: Intro and advice request

Hi all,
My name is Heidi and I am the unschooling mom of three, ages 10, 8 and
1. I jsut joined and I know I'm supposed to lurk for a while and see if
this is where I belong but I'm already sure that it is.

My immediate concern is the fact that I have a 10 year old who is still
not reading. I am hanging on by my fingernails waiting for the
lightning bolt of compregension to hit her. She knows "how" to read (ie
she can sound out words and recognize a few on their own) but she
steadfastly refuses to spend any time really getting comfortable with
it. She LOVES to be read to. She is outrageously creative
artistically. She enjoys physical persuits (karate, fencing, biking
swimming...). I know this kids wants to read btu she wants the magic
wand method of learning and I can't find it. My concern is that her
self esteem is now getting involved. Other people assume that she can
read and it is going to get increasingly difficult to cover the fact
that she can't (or more accurately, won't). Of course this pushes all
my buttons because one of my issues on the self-improvement front is to
let go of others' expectations. AARGH> This is such a tough place to
be in. I want her to maintain all her self confidence but I don't want
to teach her to cave to the expectations of others.

You are all saved from further rambling by a crying baby.

TIA for any advice!

Heidi


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Message: 23
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:55:21 EST
From: SandraDodd@...
Subject: Re: Intro and advice request


In a message dated 2/23/03 6:39:00 PM, rickshei@... writes:

<< Other people assume that she can
read and it is going to get increasingly difficult to cover the fact
that she can't (or more accurately, won't). >>

If she could she would.
If she could she couldn't help it.

Holly turned 11 in November. It was only around then that she said when
she
walks into a room she sees words and reads them the second she sees them.
Like the names of books or the month on the calendar, or the labels on
boxes.

She's still not reading "chapter books" with enough speed to make her happy.
She's working on The Boxcar Children, but slowly. She's reading Harry
Potter
cards, though, and pretty fluently.

<<This is such a tough place to
be in. I want her to maintain all her self confidence but I don't want
to teach her to cave to the expectations of others.
>>

If you want, I'll send you our copy of "Teach your Child to Read in 100 Easy
Lessons" (or whatever it is) which helped Holly in some magical way. We did
t
hree or four lessons (Well no, we read through three or four word lists,
without doing their totally weird lessons, and we started around #18 I
think.
If that would make your daughter feel better, I'll send it for the
shipping. I paid half price for it used.

And this might make you the mom feel better:

http://sandradodd.com/reading

<A HREF="http://sandradodd.com/reading">Later Readers</A>

One of Carol Rice's kids is upstairs right now, 18, can read anything in the
world, but couldn't until "late."

Sandra
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Message: 24
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:16:10 EST
From: genant2@...
Subject: Re: Re: this list has forced me again

In a message dated 2/23/03 6:35:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
litlrooh@... writes:

> Forts are a favorite around here

My boys love forts as well but even better are the spider webs. A skein of
yarn and they turn the house into a giant spider web with them being the
spiders of course. They love to catch the dogs. LOL
Pam G.


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Message: 25
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:27:02 -0000
From: "kayb85 <sheran@...>" <sheran@...>
Subject: Re: this list has forced me again--fractals


> I am NOT crafty by any means. I can't even wrap a gift right. But
the other day i was drawing fractal images (Idea from I hate
Mathematics or Math Wizardry, I forget which). I was making tree
like fractals with all different colors. The girls were really into
it and made some of their own.
>
> THEN we got on the computer and found some REALLY COOL computer
generated fractals. You should see them. We are using them for our
desktops.

We've been to some cool fractal websites too. They were really
pretty, but I still don't comprehend what a fractal is. Does anyone
have a clear definition?

Sheila



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