Alan & Brenda Leonard

2/5/03 15:35:

> I can't figure out WHAT a conductor really DOES! <G> I figure that if
> everyone KNOWS his part, that this guy just HAS to be superfluous! <BWG> But
> I enjoy watching him.
>
I'm glad you failed at learning nothing new that day. I know your question
(above) isn't really the point, but I figured maybe you'd like to fail again
today.

A solo instrument doesn't need a conductor, and neither does a small group.
Everybody can see each other, and they can watch and listen.

In an orchestra, people can't see each other very well, and there is a
slight sound lag from back to front and side to side. So first and
foremost, the conductor is there to beat time. Sort of like a silent
metronome. The conductor is also 'driving the train', and will speed up and
slow down to enhance the music.

Also very important, though, is his or her ability to interpret the music
and convey their interpretative wishes to the musicians. If you have 100
people in the orchestra, trust me, they have 100 different ideas on how the
music should sound. My quartet (4 people) sits around for hours on end
playing the same pieces and arguing over interpretation. Imagine that
multiplied by 100.

So the conductor, during rehearsals, stops the group, makes comments like,
"I'd like a more rich sound at this point", and "I can't hear the oboe
melody very well at this spot, so the strings are too loud".

The very best conductors can do that quickly, precicely, and with a minimum
of words. They can show what they want through their gestures. Saves time
stopping and starting, and allows them to make adjustment even during
performances. That's important because time is money, and precious few
groups have sufficient rehearsal time.

And, in rare event that somebody DIDN"T know their part very well, the
conductor can help them get "un-lost". No chance your conductor is
superfluous.

brenda

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In a message dated 2/5/03 11:12:42 AM, abtleo@... writes:

<< And, in rare event that somebody DIDN"T know their part very well, the
conductor can help them get "un-lost". >>

And sometimes it happens that one person is waiting for a musical cue from
another one, but that person is off, or late, or some other musical
trainwreck in the making, and the conductor will catch that and wave cues to
both of them to get them back with the group. Sometimes when a conductor
seems momentarily intense and panicked it's that someone slipped and there's
danger of others slipping on the same slippage. <g>

After so much vocal music, now when I get single-part music and can't see the
other parts I'm really not thrilled. It's kind of a fun challenge, like a
maze, when the music's unfamiliar. But I'm getting older and less patient
with musical mazes. I want to see the whole thing. With orchestral music,
having each person have a score wouldn't work at all, though. Conductors
turn pages A LOT. <g>

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
> And sometimes it happens that one person is waiting for a musical cue from
> another one, but that person is off, or late, or some other musical
> trainwreck in the making, and the conductor will catch that and wave cues
to
> both of them to get them back with the group. Sometimes when a conductor
> seems momentarily intense and panicked it's that someone slipped and
there's
> danger of others slipping on the same slippage. <g>

And most of the rest of the orchestra knows it's happening. It's an awful
feeling, waiting to see if the trainwreck happens.
Tia

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In a message dated 2/6/03 4:51:52 PM, leschke@... writes:

<< And most of the rest of the orchestra knows it's happening. It's an awful
feeling, waiting to see if the trainwreck happens. >>

But pretty exciting when it DOESN't happen. And without conductors, it would
be a miracle if an orchestra go through any complex piece without a wreck.

Sandra

Tia Leschke

>
> << And most of the rest of the orchestra knows it's happening. It's an
awful
> feeling, waiting to see if the trainwreck happens. >>
>
> But pretty exciting when it DOESN't happen.

I'd say it's more like profound relief. <g> It's been a long time since I
played in an orchestra that had to stop and start again because of a train
wreck. I hope I never have to again.

And without conductors, it would
> be a miracle if an orchestra go through any complex piece without a wreck.

You've got that right for sure.
Tia

[email protected]

In a message dated 2/7/2003 12:39:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
leschke@... writes:

And without conductors, it would
> > be a miracle if an orchestra go through any complex piece without a wreck.
>
> You've got that right for sure.

Prolonging this, but---why? Doesn't everyone know his part? Can't you hear
it? Couldn't just the one guy lay off a note or two and jump back in when
he's got it back? If each musician has a handle (they're professionals,
getting paid for being "above" the rest) on his part, why would there be an
inevitable train wreck?

I don't understand.

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tia Leschke

>
> And without conductors, it would
> > > be a miracle if an orchestra go through any complex piece without a
wreck.
> >
> > You've got that right for sure.
>
> Prolonging this, but---why? Doesn't everyone know his part? Can't you hear
> it? Couldn't just the one guy lay off a note or two and jump back in when
> he's got it back? If each musician has a handle (they're professionals,
> getting paid for being "above" the rest) on his part, why would there be
an
> inevitable train wreck?

They may know their part, but that doesn't mean they've got it memorized.
If you're expecting to hear a certain bit and don't hear it, then you have
to wait until you hear something else that's familiar before jumping in.
Sometimes one whole section will jump in at the wrong time, so that the
orchestra is actually in two different places at once. It's not that hard
to do. Imagine that you've got 8 measure rest on two consecutive lines of
your music. They're even about the same place on the line. Many is the
time I've jumped down to the second one and gotten hopelessly lost. Only
the conductor can straighten that one out, if she's lucky. Granted, this
pretty well never happens with professionals. But the conductor does a lot
more than keep the group together. She's right out front and hears
essentially what the audience hears. If she can't hear that important
little bit from the oboes because the first violins are too loud, the
audience won't be able to hear it either. Of course the violins ought to be
listening for the oboe and play softer if they can't hear it, but there are
tons of other things they have to think about at the same time. The
conductor can motion for less sound, and they'll see it and respond right
away. *If* they're pros. We have some in one of our orchestras who never
seem to look up at all. <g> The rest of the orchestra has to carry them
along. And then there's the fact that an orchestral piece will almost never
have the same tempo all the way through. There might be a section that's
meant to go slower. Somebody has to decide how much slower, and that's the
conductor. In a small group, one person would be designated as the leader,
but in a big group not everyone would be able to see that person.
Tia

Alan & Brenda Leonard

2/7/03 18:21:

> Prolonging this, but---why? Doesn't everyone know his part? Can't you hear
> it? Couldn't just the one guy lay off a note or two and jump back in when
> he's got it back? If each musician has a handle (they're professionals,
> getting paid for being "above" the rest) on his part, why would there be an
> inevitable train wreck?

Realize that we're talking about large groups here, Kelly. Orchestras or
marching bands, that size.

I've played orchestras where I wasn't the best cellist (quite often!), and
from 6 stands back, just in front of the trombones or percussion (depending
on the setup), I can't hear ANYTHING. Yes, I know my part. And there are
probably 9 other people playing it. But I can't hear them well, either.

Now imagine how the first oboe player feels. She (he?) has 212 measures of
rest, and she thinks she has counted them right. But it's hard to hear for
sure, because she sits right in front of the 4 french horns, and they're all
playing full out right now and she's going deaf. But when they're done, the
strings will noodle away softly and she'll play her pretty solo part. Let
me tell you, if she doesn't come in there, it's trainwreck time! The
strings know there is a problem, but how to solve it? Repeat the bar? Slow
up and wait? Figure she'll come in eventually? Somebody do something fast!

Therefore you need a conductor!

brenda

FYI: noodle: (new-dull) technical, music. (1.) noun: the repetitive
patterns of notes that the violins play during pretty parts of orchestral
pieces. usually boring. (2.) verb: the playing an organist does waiting
for something to happen during the church service or before a wedding, as
in, to noodle around.