Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] More TV questions?
Christine Helms
Thanks sandra!
I have really appreciated reading your posts and the kind and thoughtful way
you communicate and answer questions for those of us new to unschooling.
I'm still a little baffled by the TV thing.
It was helpful to read joyce's post about how the thoeries stack up against
the hard evidence of homeschooled kids with unlimited television. It's just
really hard for me to get all the information about TV's negative effects on
the brain out of my own brain. I am an attachment parenting Mom, nursed my
first until he was 4, tandem nursed when my second came along who is still
nursing at 5 and have devoured many books on parenting and wanting to do the
best thing for my kids. All the books posted on previous list i've read and
agree are wonderful. But it seems like in the attachment circle, many of the
books tout the dangers of tV. Rahima balwin " you are your childs first
teacher" and true many waldorf inspired books and authors have led me to
believe that the best place for the TV is in the closet. And it has come and
gone there many times. My biggest struglle is that i feel my 5 year old
would sit there for hours on end watching. At what point does the
self-monitoring occur in the child? Is it the forbidden fruit that is the
temptation and then soon dwindles. I'd really like to hear from other moms
who have had this same concern and who have come through to the other side.
I don't beleive that a little TV is bad. It's the 4 or 5 hours a day that
worries me that his brain is not being creative in other ways and is
absorbing the ideas of others on what the world is like. And it has been
shown that the brain works differently when watching a TV program . We limit
the TV to 2 hours a day. But even at that i still hear, " mom can i watch
another show?"
So whats the real scoop?
Chris
----------
I have really appreciated reading your posts and the kind and thoughtful way
you communicate and answer questions for those of us new to unschooling.
I'm still a little baffled by the TV thing.
It was helpful to read joyce's post about how the thoeries stack up against
the hard evidence of homeschooled kids with unlimited television. It's just
really hard for me to get all the information about TV's negative effects on
the brain out of my own brain. I am an attachment parenting Mom, nursed my
first until he was 4, tandem nursed when my second came along who is still
nursing at 5 and have devoured many books on parenting and wanting to do the
best thing for my kids. All the books posted on previous list i've read and
agree are wonderful. But it seems like in the attachment circle, many of the
books tout the dangers of tV. Rahima balwin " you are your childs first
teacher" and true many waldorf inspired books and authors have led me to
believe that the best place for the TV is in the closet. And it has come and
gone there many times. My biggest struglle is that i feel my 5 year old
would sit there for hours on end watching. At what point does the
self-monitoring occur in the child? Is it the forbidden fruit that is the
temptation and then soon dwindles. I'd really like to hear from other moms
who have had this same concern and who have come through to the other side.
I don't beleive that a little TV is bad. It's the 4 or 5 hours a day that
worries me that his brain is not being creative in other ways and is
absorbing the ideas of others on what the world is like. And it has been
shown that the brain works differently when watching a TV program . We limit
the TV to 2 hours a day. But even at that i still hear, " mom can i watch
another show?"
So whats the real scoop?
Chris
----------
Stephanie Elms
Hi Christine...we just got rid of tv restrictions last october and my worries were the
same as yours. I have been very pleasantly surprised. The tv is on more during the day,
but it does not have the same appeal. My oldest used to sit glued, but now he is up
and doing other things while the tv is on. He no longer feels that he *has* to watch tv
every day. In the past, if we were out and runnng around and did not get back until
late in the day, he would pitch a fit if he had not watched his hour of tv. Now he
does not mind, he knows that he can watch it tomorrow. I have also seen that if I start
to do something interesting (like set up the train set or start cooking) they will
more then likely come join me. Before nothing could tear them away from their 1 hr
of tv.
In the beginning, the boys watched quite a bit of tv. But I can tell you now that we
do not watch anywhere near 4-5 hours of tv a day. Some days we watch more and some
days less, but even if it is on, we are usually doing something else at the same time.
Try it, I think that your kids will surprise you. Mine did (they are 6 and almost 3).
I posted our experiences a couple of days back. I will post them here now again (feel
free to skip if you saw this before!)
Stephanie E.
Ok, I am a hundred or so messages behind, but wanted to write a quick one. I used to
believe those studies about tv and we definitely limited it. What convinced me to
change my mind was realizing that the warnings to not let your kids watch more then
2 hrs/day were based on kids who were in school all day. Betw school and homework,
if kids were watching more then 2 hrs/day, they most likely were not doing much else.
For our kids, 2 hrs/day is really not much when you look at all the "free" time they
have. There is tons of time for them to do other things.
We lifted restrictions on tv back in october and it has worked great. They definitely
watch more then the 1 hr/day I previously let them, but I have found that they
are now doing other things while watching (previously my oldest (6 yo) would
pretty much sit transfixed). Now he builds legos, bounces on his mini trampoline,
plays with his brother etc. Much of the time the tv is more background noise. I have
also noticed that they do use the tv to relax...after we have had a really exciting day
and also to transition to waking up in the morning (all 3 of us usually cuddle on the
couch and watch blue's clues).
Things I have also noticed is that they don't fight when we have to go somewhere and
turn off the tv. When my ILs were visiting, they hardly turned it on at all (my ILs
love playing with the boys). It is pretty easy to get them involved in other things
(mainly with the tv on). The tv no longer goes on first thing when we get home and
Jason has started asking me to put on music. I have seen no loss in creativity...they
still like to do lots of stuff. It has cut back on arguments and I like that I no
longer make them feel bad for liking something "bad".
The only downfall is that I have lost my "never-fail" option...before lifting restrictions
if I had to get something done (phone call etc) I could always let them watch tv...doesn't
hold the same attraction nowadays...
Stephanie E.
same as yours. I have been very pleasantly surprised. The tv is on more during the day,
but it does not have the same appeal. My oldest used to sit glued, but now he is up
and doing other things while the tv is on. He no longer feels that he *has* to watch tv
every day. In the past, if we were out and runnng around and did not get back until
late in the day, he would pitch a fit if he had not watched his hour of tv. Now he
does not mind, he knows that he can watch it tomorrow. I have also seen that if I start
to do something interesting (like set up the train set or start cooking) they will
more then likely come join me. Before nothing could tear them away from their 1 hr
of tv.
In the beginning, the boys watched quite a bit of tv. But I can tell you now that we
do not watch anywhere near 4-5 hours of tv a day. Some days we watch more and some
days less, but even if it is on, we are usually doing something else at the same time.
Try it, I think that your kids will surprise you. Mine did (they are 6 and almost 3).
I posted our experiences a couple of days back. I will post them here now again (feel
free to skip if you saw this before!)
Stephanie E.
Ok, I am a hundred or so messages behind, but wanted to write a quick one. I used to
believe those studies about tv and we definitely limited it. What convinced me to
change my mind was realizing that the warnings to not let your kids watch more then
2 hrs/day were based on kids who were in school all day. Betw school and homework,
if kids were watching more then 2 hrs/day, they most likely were not doing much else.
For our kids, 2 hrs/day is really not much when you look at all the "free" time they
have. There is tons of time for them to do other things.
We lifted restrictions on tv back in october and it has worked great. They definitely
watch more then the 1 hr/day I previously let them, but I have found that they
are now doing other things while watching (previously my oldest (6 yo) would
pretty much sit transfixed). Now he builds legos, bounces on his mini trampoline,
plays with his brother etc. Much of the time the tv is more background noise. I have
also noticed that they do use the tv to relax...after we have had a really exciting day
and also to transition to waking up in the morning (all 3 of us usually cuddle on the
couch and watch blue's clues).
Things I have also noticed is that they don't fight when we have to go somewhere and
turn off the tv. When my ILs were visiting, they hardly turned it on at all (my ILs
love playing with the boys). It is pretty easy to get them involved in other things
(mainly with the tv on). The tv no longer goes on first thing when we get home and
Jason has started asking me to put on music. I have seen no loss in creativity...they
still like to do lots of stuff. It has cut back on arguments and I like that I no
longer make them feel bad for liking something "bad".
The only downfall is that I have lost my "never-fail" option...before lifting restrictions
if I had to get something done (phone call etc) I could always let them watch tv...doesn't
hold the same attraction nowadays...
Stephanie E.
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/4/03 8:47:55 PM, KindredSpiritsYoga@... writes:
<< My biggest struglle is that i feel my 5 year old
would sit there for hours on end watching. At what point does the
self-monitoring occur in the child? >>
I've had three five year olds who did NOT sit for hours on end watching,
though they could have.
Self monitoring occurs at some point after they have the opportunity to self
monitor. It cannot possibly begin to happen as long as the parent is
monitoring.
<< Is it the forbidden fruit that is the
temptation and then soon dwindles.>>
Yes, in my experience.
<<I don't beleive that a little TV is bad. It's the 4 or 5 hours a day that
worries me that his brain is not being creative in other ways and is
absorbing the ideas of others on what the world is like. >>
There are ways kids can be creative watching pictures of other continents or
listening to music or watching musicians or artists which are not ways they
can be in their homes otherwise. Absorbing the ideas of others on what the
world is like has been the basis of learning for a long time, hasn't it?
Comparing what we thing to what others think is a GREAT way to boost
creativity and deep thought.
<< And it has been shown that the brain works differently when watching a TV
program . >>
What shows did they use for those tests? Have you read the details on the
test group? Every time I've actually read the details of these tests I've
thought "lame."
Kids tested with the same little piece of video, whether they're interviewed
afterward or wired up or whatever, were not in their own homes, not watching
shows of their own choosing, and in every way they were in a testing
situation designed by someone intending to prove something. What was the
researcher's motivation? What were his methods?
When I let kids do what they need, my motivation is to give them the
opportunity to learn to make decisions based on real factors. And when they
watch something that's making them think, making them sing, making them
wonder, making them discuss what and why, that meets my top priority in life,
which is helping them find opportunities for input, ideas, information,
amusement. They're learning all the time.
Holly watched Simpson's; just now turned it off.
Between 8:00 and 9:00 Kirby and I watched 24 together. I was fifteen minutes
late, having taken Holly to class. Kirby caught me up on what I'd missed at
the commercial. Marty had been watching some gameshow for a while in the
afternoon (whatever Donny Osmond is hosting, a word game) and forgot to turn
it off. I turned it off. Kirby was watching a rerun of That 70's Show while
he was answering e-mail this afternoon. Before Holly went to class she was
curling her ponies' tales with the TV on, but turned it off mid-show to come
hang around with me.
That's the day's tv report. Nobody sat for hours. Everyone's been online at
one point or another. All the malefolk are too sick to go out. Kirby and
Marty are upstairs laughing and playing a card game at the moment. Keith ate
and went back to bed. He's going to try to go to work again in the morning.
<<We limit
the TV to 2 hours a day. But even at that i still hear, " mom can i watch
another show?">>
Do they ever forego that two hours?
Do you limit books?
Music?
Sandra
<< My biggest struglle is that i feel my 5 year old
would sit there for hours on end watching. At what point does the
self-monitoring occur in the child? >>
I've had three five year olds who did NOT sit for hours on end watching,
though they could have.
Self monitoring occurs at some point after they have the opportunity to self
monitor. It cannot possibly begin to happen as long as the parent is
monitoring.
<< Is it the forbidden fruit that is the
temptation and then soon dwindles.>>
Yes, in my experience.
<<I don't beleive that a little TV is bad. It's the 4 or 5 hours a day that
worries me that his brain is not being creative in other ways and is
absorbing the ideas of others on what the world is like. >>
There are ways kids can be creative watching pictures of other continents or
listening to music or watching musicians or artists which are not ways they
can be in their homes otherwise. Absorbing the ideas of others on what the
world is like has been the basis of learning for a long time, hasn't it?
Comparing what we thing to what others think is a GREAT way to boost
creativity and deep thought.
<< And it has been shown that the brain works differently when watching a TV
program . >>
What shows did they use for those tests? Have you read the details on the
test group? Every time I've actually read the details of these tests I've
thought "lame."
Kids tested with the same little piece of video, whether they're interviewed
afterward or wired up or whatever, were not in their own homes, not watching
shows of their own choosing, and in every way they were in a testing
situation designed by someone intending to prove something. What was the
researcher's motivation? What were his methods?
When I let kids do what they need, my motivation is to give them the
opportunity to learn to make decisions based on real factors. And when they
watch something that's making them think, making them sing, making them
wonder, making them discuss what and why, that meets my top priority in life,
which is helping them find opportunities for input, ideas, information,
amusement. They're learning all the time.
Holly watched Simpson's; just now turned it off.
Between 8:00 and 9:00 Kirby and I watched 24 together. I was fifteen minutes
late, having taken Holly to class. Kirby caught me up on what I'd missed at
the commercial. Marty had been watching some gameshow for a while in the
afternoon (whatever Donny Osmond is hosting, a word game) and forgot to turn
it off. I turned it off. Kirby was watching a rerun of That 70's Show while
he was answering e-mail this afternoon. Before Holly went to class she was
curling her ponies' tales with the TV on, but turned it off mid-show to come
hang around with me.
That's the day's tv report. Nobody sat for hours. Everyone's been online at
one point or another. All the malefolk are too sick to go out. Kirby and
Marty are upstairs laughing and playing a card game at the moment. Keith ate
and went back to bed. He's going to try to go to work again in the morning.
<<We limit
the TV to 2 hours a day. But even at that i still hear, " mom can i watch
another show?">>
Do they ever forego that two hours?
Do you limit books?
Music?
Sandra
Mary Bianco
>From: "Christine Helms" <KindredSpiritsYoga@...><<At what point does the self-monitoring occur in the child?>>
It's different for every child. Depends on the child, depends on how long
you limited them and depends on how well you stop those limitations. I mean
really stop them.
<<Is it the forbidden fruit that is the temptation and then soon dwindles.>>
Yes it is. And you just gave yourself the answer in a nutshell.
Mary B
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Mary Bianco
One of Joseph's favorite TV shows when he was about 5 was The Price is
Right. He also loved some grocery shopping show. Not sure where he even
found that one as I never watched it. Of course it all changes with is age
and moods. He still likes Price though. And he loved Millionaire when Regis
had it at night. Does he still watch SpongeBob Squarepants? Of course he
does. But the point is he watches all kinds of stuff along with that. And
it's never 4-5 hours a day. Sometimes he doesn't make it through even a half
hour show. Sometimes he sits and watches 2 of them back to back.
Sierra love Animal Planet. She wants to be a vet now. Joseph gets bored with
that station and usually leaves. Sierra has Alyssa watching it now. She'll
even come into the living room if Joe and I are watching something and she
tells us to put on Animal Planet for her. She just very recently started to
watch TV. She's a 2 years and 4 months now and just started watching last
month. She always has had access to it and knows how to turn it off and on.
Just wasn't interested until now.
Tara is 17 and never had restrictions on how much to watch or what to watch.
Plenty of times her room is quiet and she's drawing and coloring. Plenty of
times she has on her radio or playing cd's. Her TV goes on at 11:00 p.m. and
she falls asleep to Golden Girls. It's her favorite show and she knows the
dialog word for word on given one!!
Mary B
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Right. He also loved some grocery shopping show. Not sure where he even
found that one as I never watched it. Of course it all changes with is age
and moods. He still likes Price though. And he loved Millionaire when Regis
had it at night. Does he still watch SpongeBob Squarepants? Of course he
does. But the point is he watches all kinds of stuff along with that. And
it's never 4-5 hours a day. Sometimes he doesn't make it through even a half
hour show. Sometimes he sits and watches 2 of them back to back.
Sierra love Animal Planet. She wants to be a vet now. Joseph gets bored with
that station and usually leaves. Sierra has Alyssa watching it now. She'll
even come into the living room if Joe and I are watching something and she
tells us to put on Animal Planet for her. She just very recently started to
watch TV. She's a 2 years and 4 months now and just started watching last
month. She always has had access to it and knows how to turn it off and on.
Just wasn't interested until now.
Tara is 17 and never had restrictions on how much to watch or what to watch.
Plenty of times her room is quiet and she's drawing and coloring. Plenty of
times she has on her radio or playing cd's. Her TV goes on at 11:00 p.m. and
she falls asleep to Golden Girls. It's her favorite show and she knows the
dialog word for word on given one!!
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
Tired of spam? Get advanced junk mail protection with MSN 8.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
[email protected]
>I'd really like to hear from other momswho have had this same concern and who have come through to the other
side.
I don't believe that a little TV is bad. It's the 4 or 5 hours a day that
worries me that his brain is not being creative in other ways and is
absorbing the ideas of others on what the world is like. <
Chris,
My daughter watched hours of cartoons when she was younger. She developed
a talent for drawing... what else but cartoon looking caricatures. I
believe she was "studying".
My son spent today watching hours of "The Tale of the Gun" on the
History channel, a history-thon on guns. I asked if he ever got tired of
watching these gun programs, I swear they all look the same. He said
these were ones he hadn't seen before. He told me that he'd watched so
many before that now he knows a lot of it already but there's always
something new.
My children watch tv a lot but rarely without doing other things at the
same time. For example my son drew two pretty detailed guns today.
I believe because we have no limits on tv time they seek out interesting
programming. They have time to watch the strictly fun and silly stuff but
they choose to watch the "educational" stuff too.
I do feel the need to remind them once in a while to turn it off and go
outside if it's exceptionally nice out, but it's usually not a problem.
They're good about doing things in moderation.
Sharon
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[email protected]
In a message dated 2/5/2003 12:39:49 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
don't limit TV at all and never have. It is on most of the day, usually PBS,
Nick Jr, etc...My 5yo son watches a little TV but prefers books or play while
my 3yo daughter watches it for hours and hours. She will turn down play,
crafts or me reading to her and if I turn off the TV so we can listen to
music or do something else, she gets angry and turns it back on. I know that
she is definitely learning stuff from the TV but it concerns me that she
doesn't want to do ANYTHING else.
Any thoughts?
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> My biggest struglle is that i feel my 5 year oldwatching,
> would sit there for hours on end watching. At what point does the
> self-monitoring occur in the child? >>
>
> Sandra wrote:I've had three five year olds who did NOT sit for hours on end
>Here's something I'm wondering about: my kids are young yet (age 5 and 3) We
> though they could have.
>
don't limit TV at all and never have. It is on most of the day, usually PBS,
Nick Jr, etc...My 5yo son watches a little TV but prefers books or play while
my 3yo daughter watches it for hours and hours. She will turn down play,
crafts or me reading to her and if I turn off the TV so we can listen to
music or do something else, she gets angry and turns it back on. I know that
she is definitely learning stuff from the TV but it concerns me that she
doesn't want to do ANYTHING else.
Any thoughts?
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 2/4/03 10:46 PM, Christine Helms at KindredSpiritsYoga@... wrote:
books. Isn't it better to experience things than to read a book about
something?
It even makes sense that if kids aren't taught the things they need that
they won't learn them. Especially math.
But the real question is does the theory match reality? There are unschooled
kids here with unlimited access to TV. Are they zombie-like? Are they
lacking in imagination? Do they turn on the TV the moment they get up and
are pulled away kicking and screaming at bedtime? Are any of the things the
authors conclude will happen happening to these kids?
just for a couple of weeks but forever -- has found their kids can realize
that TV will always be accessible and can choose to not watch TV.
My 11yo daughter does take binges both watching and not watching.
the answer is never. If you expect the child to be able to freely choose
what they find most interesting at any given time, then after they gain the
confidence that TV won't be restricted any more, then they will obviously
self-limit to how much they want to watch. It may be more than you'd choose
for them, but it would be self-monitoring all the same.
There may be stumbling blocks. There should be opportunities that are more
interesting than TV. If TV is the most interesting thing in the house, then
limiting TV is like schools covering up the windows so kids will will find
the teacher more interesting than the blinds. They may not want to miss a
program. Kids can feel trapped by the TV station's schedule. If they don't
watch something now they can't watch it. But learning how to operate the
record on the VCR helps there :-)
Joyce
> Rahima balwin " you are your childs firstI think it intellectually makes sense. It even makes sense in terms of
> teacher" and true many waldorf inspired books and authors have led me to
> believe that the best place for the TV is in the closet.
books. Isn't it better to experience things than to read a book about
something?
It even makes sense that if kids aren't taught the things they need that
they won't learn them. Especially math.
But the real question is does the theory match reality? There are unschooled
kids here with unlimited access to TV. Are they zombie-like? Are they
lacking in imagination? Do they turn on the TV the moment they get up and
are pulled away kicking and screaming at bedtime? Are any of the things the
authors conclude will happen happening to these kids?
> My biggest struglle is that i feel my 5 year oldEveryone who has said that and has truly let go of the limits -- that is not
> would sit there for hours on end watching.
just for a couple of weeks but forever -- has found their kids can realize
that TV will always be accessible and can choose to not watch TV.
My 11yo daughter does take binges both watching and not watching.
> At what point does theIt depends. If you expect the child to "self monitor" to an hour a day then
> self-monitoring occur in the child?
the answer is never. If you expect the child to be able to freely choose
what they find most interesting at any given time, then after they gain the
confidence that TV won't be restricted any more, then they will obviously
self-limit to how much they want to watch. It may be more than you'd choose
for them, but it would be self-monitoring all the same.
There may be stumbling blocks. There should be opportunities that are more
interesting than TV. If TV is the most interesting thing in the house, then
limiting TV is like schools covering up the windows so kids will will find
the teacher more interesting than the blinds. They may not want to miss a
program. Kids can feel trapped by the TV station's schedule. If they don't
watch something now they can't watch it. But learning how to operate the
record on the VCR helps there :-)
Joyce
Christine Helms
Thanks stephanie!
Very helpful!!
Chris
----------
Very helpful!!
Chris
----------
>From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>is up
>To: <[email protected]>
>Subject: RE: [Unschooling-dotcom] More TV questions?
>Date: Tue, Feb 4, 2003, 11:37 PM
>
> Hi Christine...we just got rid of tv restrictions last october and my
> worries were the
> same as yours. I have been very pleasantly surprised. The tv is on more
> during the day,
> but it does not have the same appeal. My oldest used to sit glued, but now he
> and doing other things while the tv is on. He no longer feels that he *has*until
> to watch tv
> every day. In the past, if we were out and runnng around and did not get back
> late in the day, he would pitch a fit if he had not watched his hour of tv.Now he
> does not mind, he knows that he can watch it tomorrow. I have also seenwill
> that if I start
> to do something interesting (like set up the train set or start cooking) they
> more then likely come join me. Before nothing could tear them away from their1 hr
> of tv.some
>
> In the beginning, the boys watched quite a bit of tv. But I can tell you
> now that we
> do not watch anywhere near 4-5 hours of tv a day. Some days we watch more and
> days less, but even if it is on, we are usually doing something else at theto
> same time.
>
> Try it, I think that your kids will surprise you. Mine did (they are 6 and
> almost 3).
>
> I posted our experiences a couple of days back. I will post them here now
> again (feel
> free to skip if you saw this before!)
>
>
> Stephanie E.
>
>
> Ok, I am a hundred or so messages behind, but wanted to write a quick one.
> I used to
> believe those studies about tv and we definitely limited it. What convinced me
> change my mind was realizing that the warnings to not let your kids watch morethen
> 2 hrs/day were based on kids who were in school all day. Betw school andhomework,
> if kids were watching more then 2 hrs/day, they most likely were not doingtrampoline,
> much else.
> For our kids, 2 hrs/day is really not much when you look at all the "free"
> time they
> have. There is tons of time for them to do other things.
>
> We lifted restrictions on tv back in october and it has worked great. They
> definitely
> watch more then the 1 hr/day I previously let them, but I have found that they
> are now doing other things while watching (previously my oldest (6 yo) would
> pretty much sit transfixed). Now he builds legos, bounces on his mini
> plays with his brother etc. Much of the time the tv is more background(my ILs
> noise. I have
> also noticed that they do use the tv to relax...after we have had a really
> exciting day
> and also to transition to waking up in the morning (all 3 of us usually
> cuddle on the
> couch and watch blue's clues).
>
> Things I have also noticed is that they don't fight when we have to go
> somewhere and
> turn off the tv. When my ILs were visiting, they hardly turned it on at all
> love playing with the boys). It is pretty easy to get them involved in otherthings
> (mainly with the tv on). The tv no longer goes on first thing when we get homeand
> Jason has started asking me to put on music. I have seen no loss inno
> creativity...they
> still like to do lots of stuff. It has cut back on arguments and I like that I
> longer make them feel bad for liking something "bad".email to:
>
> The only downfall is that I have lost my "never-fail" option...before
> lifting restrictions
> if I had to get something done (phone call etc) I could always let them
> watch tv...doesn't
> hold the same attraction nowadays...
>
> Stephanie E.
>>
>
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>
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In a message dated 2/4/03 10:47:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
KindredSpiritsYoga@... writes:
mean you follow anything blindly. Book are great for reading but you have
your own instincts. I attachment parented before I knew there was a term for
it. I have read and read about all these topics and I choose to let my
children have choices in their lives. Yes, even at this age. My boys have
always had the choice where TV is concerned, they are 5 and 8 now. They
watch TV more on some days and not at all on others. It is their choice. I
believe that by allowing them choices in their lives now and always they will
be able to make choices all through their lives and there won't be this shock
when they turn 18 or 21 or whenever the magical number is.
They are learning how to make choices. For us TV is just another tool.
Another something to explore. And just because they are watching TV doesn't
mean they aren't learning or processing something else they did that day.
Also my boys don't just watch TV. I watch it with them and I can answer
questions. TV starts a lot of interesting conversations about a variety of
topics. I don't just sit in the corner wondering if they are learning or
not.
Anyway toooo much on this topic for me. I am sure others on here have much
better information for you. It takes time to get it sometimes.
Pam G. (didn't we just have this conversation on this list about 2 weeks
ago....so soon)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
KindredSpiritsYoga@... writes:
> I don't believe that a little TV is bad. It's the 4 or 5 hours a day thatI think many on this list are attachment parenting, I am, but that doesn't
> worries me that his brain is not being creative in other ways and is
> absorbing the ideas of others on what the world is like. And it has been
> shown that the brain works differently when watching a TV program . We
> limit
> the TV to 2 hours a day. But even at that i still hear, " mom can i watch
> another show?"
>
>
mean you follow anything blindly. Book are great for reading but you have
your own instincts. I attachment parented before I knew there was a term for
it. I have read and read about all these topics and I choose to let my
children have choices in their lives. Yes, even at this age. My boys have
always had the choice where TV is concerned, they are 5 and 8 now. They
watch TV more on some days and not at all on others. It is their choice. I
believe that by allowing them choices in their lives now and always they will
be able to make choices all through their lives and there won't be this shock
when they turn 18 or 21 or whenever the magical number is.
They are learning how to make choices. For us TV is just another tool.
Another something to explore. And just because they are watching TV doesn't
mean they aren't learning or processing something else they did that day.
Also my boys don't just watch TV. I watch it with them and I can answer
questions. TV starts a lot of interesting conversations about a variety of
topics. I don't just sit in the corner wondering if they are learning or
not.
Anyway toooo much on this topic for me. I am sure others on here have much
better information for you. It takes time to get it sometimes.
Pam G. (didn't we just have this conversation on this list about 2 weeks
ago....so soon)
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 2/5/03 6:36 AM, amycats2@... at amycats2@... wrote:
it over and over. Being more coercive at that time I side tracked her. I
think that Sandra said Holly was stuck on a movie at the same age.
Is she happy watching TV? Or is she using it as a way to avoid something?
Did you just move or is there upsetness in the family?
Joyce
> My 5yo son watches a little TV but prefers books or play whileI remember that at 3 Kathryn was stuck on 101 Dalmations and wanted to watch
> my 3yo daughter watches it for hours and hours. She will turn down play,
> crafts or me reading to her and if I turn off the TV so we can listen to
> music or do something else, she gets angry and turns it back on. I know that
> she is definitely learning stuff from the TV but it concerns me that she
> doesn't want to do ANYTHING else.
it over and over. Being more coercive at that time I side tracked her. I
think that Sandra said Holly was stuck on a movie at the same age.
Is she happy watching TV? Or is she using it as a way to avoid something?
Did you just move or is there upsetness in the family?
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/5/2003 1:09:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
concerned if she did anything for that many hours at a stretch so I don't
think it's just because it's TV as opposed to books, Barbies, or anything
else. I'm hoping it's an "age" thing.
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
fetteroll@... writes:
> Is she happy watching TV? Or is she using it as a way to avoid something?No, everything is okay here and she seems to really enjoy it. I would be
> Did you just move or is there upsetness in the family?
>
concerned if she did anything for that many hours at a stretch so I don't
think it's just because it's TV as opposed to books, Barbies, or anything
else. I'm hoping it's an "age" thing.
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/5/03 5:22:57 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< > Rahima balwin " you are your childs first
have for them.
It sure does SELL well to peace-loving, artsy, loving parents with cash,
though. Their assertions about music and art sound good and soothing while
you're first hearing it, but from the point of view of art or music they seem
like nonsense.
And one of the saddest homeschooling stories I've ever heard was of a family
where the parents became suddenly SO sold on Waldorf stuff that they went in
and cleaned out their son's toys. Everything with faces and everything
plastic was swept up and trashed. And they presented him with his new
improved "guaranteed" nurturing and wonderful new toys. But the little boy's
favorite thing had been a My Little Pony, and it was thrown away without
consultation. He had not only no interest in the new faceless wooden pony,
but felt hugely betrayed and hurt.
It's another example of parents looking at a "program" instead of at their
own child.
This article is fascinating, by a mom who volunteered at a Waldorf school:
http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/lombard.html
And there are others here:
http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles.html#FormerWal
Whatever all they MAY be, Steiner/Waldorf-trained parents are NOT unschoolers
and they're not involved in natural learning. It's a bunch of very
attractive superstition.
They've certainly not earned any right to suggest what's good for my kids in
their own homes, nor did Steiner have anything to say about TV (since he
died in 1925).
Sandra
<< > Rahima balwin " you are your childs first
> teacher" and true many waldorf inspired books and authors have led me toThe more I learn about Waldorf schools and Rudolf Steiner, the less respect I
> believe that the best place for the TV is in the closet.
>>
have for them.
It sure does SELL well to peace-loving, artsy, loving parents with cash,
though. Their assertions about music and art sound good and soothing while
you're first hearing it, but from the point of view of art or music they seem
like nonsense.
And one of the saddest homeschooling stories I've ever heard was of a family
where the parents became suddenly SO sold on Waldorf stuff that they went in
and cleaned out their son's toys. Everything with faces and everything
plastic was swept up and trashed. And they presented him with his new
improved "guaranteed" nurturing and wonderful new toys. But the little boy's
favorite thing had been a My Little Pony, and it was thrown away without
consultation. He had not only no interest in the new faceless wooden pony,
but felt hugely betrayed and hurt.
It's another example of parents looking at a "program" instead of at their
own child.
This article is fascinating, by a mom who volunteered at a Waldorf school:
http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles/lombard.html
And there are others here:
http://www.waldorfcritics.org/active/articles.html#FormerWal
Whatever all they MAY be, Steiner/Waldorf-trained parents are NOT unschoolers
and they're not involved in natural learning. It's a bunch of very
attractive superstition.
They've certainly not earned any right to suggest what's good for my kids in
their own homes, nor did Steiner have anything to say about TV (since he
died in 1925).
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/5/03 4:37:05 AM, amycats2@... writes:
<< I know that
she is definitely learning stuff from the TV but it concerns me that she
doesn't want to do ANYTHING else. >>
Will she do other things while she's watching? If you give her playdoh and
molds and a flat surface and some cool tools, will she do two things at once,
at least? <g>
Maybe she likes it because she herself can turn it on and off.
Is it winter where you are? (I hate to assume, since there are people here
who are having a nice summer <g>) Can you rent some good videos with music
that you'd both enjoy?
Sandra
<< I know that
she is definitely learning stuff from the TV but it concerns me that she
doesn't want to do ANYTHING else. >>
Will she do other things while she's watching? If you give her playdoh and
molds and a flat surface and some cool tools, will she do two things at once,
at least? <g>
Maybe she likes it because she herself can turn it on and off.
Is it winter where you are? (I hate to assume, since there are people here
who are having a nice summer <g>) Can you rent some good videos with music
that you'd both enjoy?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/5/2003 9:38:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
last night and rented some movies they requested. (They're going thru a huge
Wizard of Oz phase and the library's copy was gone. :( I'm checking half.com
today for a used copy. The love for Wizard of Oz bemuses me, because when I
was my kids' age I was terrified of the Wicked Witch and the flying monkeys!
Thanks for the suggestions!
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
>Oh yes, we are definitely winter here in frosty Ohio. I went to the library
> Is it winter where you are? (I hate to assume, since there are people here
>
> who are having a nice summer <g>) Can you rent some good videos with
> music
> that you'd both enjoy?
>
last night and rented some movies they requested. (They're going thru a huge
Wizard of Oz phase and the library's copy was gone. :( I'm checking half.com
today for a used copy. The love for Wizard of Oz bemuses me, because when I
was my kids' age I was terrified of the Wicked Witch and the flying monkeys!
Thanks for the suggestions!
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]