Unbelief
[email protected]
I had an interesting conversation today with a co-worker.
She and I are worlds apart in almost every philosophy and belief anyway (she
thinks guns should be illegal for all but government and police etc...) and
today she tells me she thinks homeschooling should not be allowed.
She had the usual socialization crap and so on...]
But the misinformation spewing forth is what caught me off guard. Not just
some little stuff, but things like suicidal teens are often homeschooled at
younger ages.
I asked for the proof, the study that showed it. Her Phsyche professor is
supposedly working on a paper now and will publish it (good luck on that one)
HA!
Apparently she's taken a bunch of psychology and must have had a biased
professor.
Because I know plenty of psychologists that believe in child led learning...
not that I care what any "experts" believe anyway.
She claims that she could pick out the homeschoolers everytime up in OKC
because they were "different" and didn't have good social skills yada, yada,
yada...
Anyway....it was amazing the amount of venom and lies spewing forth, I am
just SO glad to be home for lunch break and be able to log on for a dose of
sanity.
I'd love to get into it with her big time, but work just ain't the place.
I gave the usual answers and let it go.
I also told her that she'll never produce convincing studies to prove that
homeschoolers are poorly socialized. She thinks she can. BARF!!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
She and I are worlds apart in almost every philosophy and belief anyway (she
thinks guns should be illegal for all but government and police etc...) and
today she tells me she thinks homeschooling should not be allowed.
She had the usual socialization crap and so on...]
But the misinformation spewing forth is what caught me off guard. Not just
some little stuff, but things like suicidal teens are often homeschooled at
younger ages.
I asked for the proof, the study that showed it. Her Phsyche professor is
supposedly working on a paper now and will publish it (good luck on that one)
HA!
Apparently she's taken a bunch of psychology and must have had a biased
professor.
Because I know plenty of psychologists that believe in child led learning...
not that I care what any "experts" believe anyway.
She claims that she could pick out the homeschoolers everytime up in OKC
because they were "different" and didn't have good social skills yada, yada,
yada...
Anyway....it was amazing the amount of venom and lies spewing forth, I am
just SO glad to be home for lunch break and be able to log on for a dose of
sanity.
I'd love to get into it with her big time, but work just ain't the place.
I gave the usual answers and let it go.
I also told her that she'll never produce convincing studies to prove that
homeschoolers are poorly socialized. She thinks she can. BARF!!
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/1/03 5:25:49 PM Eastern Standard Time,
starsuncloud@... writes:
to be finished, like "good" little children, affraid to speak because of the
punishment. They actually have a thought. Want to engage someone in
conversation. I think homeschoolers, especially unschoolers, are easy to
spot (most of the time). They are so engaging. So conversational.
I think that all depends on what "social skills" you think are "good".
Don't you hate that...
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
starsuncloud@... writes:
> She claims that she could pick out the homeschoolers everytime up in OKCOh you mean they didn't just sit there helplessly and listen and wait for mom
> because they were "different" and didn't have good social skills yada,
> yada,
> yada...
>
>
to be finished, like "good" little children, affraid to speak because of the
punishment. They actually have a thought. Want to engage someone in
conversation. I think homeschoolers, especially unschoolers, are easy to
spot (most of the time). They are so engaging. So conversational.
I think that all depends on what "social skills" you think are "good".
Don't you hate that...
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
athom <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], starsuncloud@c... wrote:
<>I'd love to get into it with her big time, but work just ain't the
place. I gave the usual answers and let it go. I also told her that
she'll never produce convincing studies to prove that homeschoolers
are poorly socialized. She thinks she can. BARF!!<>
Find the right group of homeschoolers and she could be right. My
daughter got a little taste of that at a certain camp this summer,
with lots of really alienated and severely depressed homeschooled
teens. Not all, but the majority. Definitely a real eye opener for
her. Not one that I was real excited to hear about. So, had this
psychologist been affiliated with this particular camp s/he could
have easily come away with that impression.
However, until this camp that has not been our experience at all. As
a matter of fact we keep hearing over and over again, from all kinds
of folks, how wonderful our homeschool kids are. The ski instructor
just this past week had nothing but praise for our group of
homeschool kids who had been taking group lessons for the past 4
weeks. He liked them so much that instead of the usual 1/2 hour
lesson he gave them one hour or longer lessons each week. And I've
heard this forever in all kinds of different situations.
Then, when I go off to substitute teach in the public schools I see
lots of things that the parents of these kids would never want to
hear about, to know about. I think every parent of a brick and
mortar schooled kid should have to substitute teach for one year, in
all different schools, just to see what really goes on in these
institutions. It would be a real eye opener for them. Unless, of
course, they go in with blinders on.
Funny thing, too, the parents of the severely alienated and depressed
group did not want to hear about that either, got very defensive at
the slightest insinuation that things were not handled responsibly at
this camp. Oh, well.
Norma
Kristen seitz
I'm curious as to in what way these teens were alienated and how these
kids expressed that they were severly depressed.
Can you elaborate more on this? Did it have anything to do with the
camp (was this camp for a particular group of people?) or was it that
they all coincidentally were at this camp but their home lives were
less than satisfying?
Feel free to email me offlist if you like. I'm looking at different
camps for my kids and would like to hear more about this if you don't
mind.
Thanks,
Kristen
kids expressed that they were severly depressed.
Can you elaborate more on this? Did it have anything to do with the
camp (was this camp for a particular group of people?) or was it that
they all coincidentally were at this camp but their home lives were
less than satisfying?
Feel free to email me offlist if you like. I'm looking at different
camps for my kids and would like to hear more about this if you don't
mind.
Thanks,
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: "athom <tessimal@...>" <tessimal@...>
Date: Saturday, February 1, 2003 6:51 pm
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Unbelief
> <span><p><span><p>
>
>
> <tt>
> --- In [email protected], starsuncloud@c... wrote:
>
> <>I'd love to get into it with her big time, but work just
> ain't the
>
> place. I gave the usual answers and let it go. I also told her
> that
>
> she'll never produce convincing studies to prove that
> homeschoolers
>
> are poorly socialized. She thinks she can. BARF!!<>
>
>
>
> Find the right group of homeschoolers and she could be right. My
>
> daughter got a little taste of that at a certain camp this summer,
>
> with lots of really alienated and severely depressed homeschooled
>
> teens. Not all, but the majority. Definitely a real eye opener
> for
>
> her. Not one that I was real excited to hear about. So, had this
>
> psychologist been affiliated with this particular camp s/he could
>
> have easily come away with that impression.
>
>
>
> However, until this camp that has not been our experience at all.
> As
>
> a matter of fact we keep hearing over and over again, from all
> kinds
>
> of folks, how wonderful our homeschool kids are. The ski
> instructor
>
> just this past week had nothing but praise for our group of
>
> homeschool kids who had been taking group lessons for the past 4
>
> weeks. He liked them so much that instead of the usual 1/2 hour
>
> lesson he gave them one hour or longer lessons each week. And I've
>
> heard this forever in all kinds of different situations.
>
>
>
> Then, when I go off to substitute teach in the public schools I
> see
>
> lots of things that the parents of these kids would never want to
>
> hear about, to know about. I think every parent of a brick and
>
> mortar schooled kid should have to substitute teach for one year,
> in
>
> all different schools, just to see what really goes on in these
>
> institutions. It would be a real eye opener for them. Unless, of
>
> course, they go in with blinders on.
>
>
>
> Funny thing, too, the parents of the severely alienated and
> depressed
>
> group did not want to hear about that either, got very defensive
> at
>
> the slightest insinuation that things were not handled responsibly
> at
>
> this camp. Oh, well.
>
>
>
> Norma
>
>
>
> </tt>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
>
>
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>
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>
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> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com</tt>
>
>
>
>
>
> <tt>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
> Service.</tt></br>
>
> </span></span>
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 2/1/03 5:52:14 PM Central Standard Time,
[email protected] writes:
<< I think that all depends on what "social skills" you think are "good".
Don't you hate that...
Pam G. >>
Yep, exactly.
And she's never met any of my kids but others at work have and raved about
how Trevor was NOT like other teens (so maybe different is good and she can't
see that?)
because he can carry on a conversation about, well...anything! And he's
personable and fun and funny.
Whatever.
I had to really laugh about her thinking she can pick out the homeschooled
kids, I need to ask her if she can pick out the homeschooled people we work
with!!
There are two homeschooled adults there that I know of personally.
I informed the girl that works in the Juniors department to watch out, cuz
someone at the Lauder counter thinks homeschoolers are "weird", she was
pissed.
A customer approached right as I was getting to that point, so I didn't get
the chance to point out that we work with homeschoolers (and I bet she can't
tell them from anyone else for crying out loud!!) .
But if it comes up again, you can bet I'll be asking her to point out the
homeschoolers at Dillards.
Sheesh.
She irritates the hell out of me anyway though. I think she'd like government
in control of everything. Germany a few years back may have suited her better.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
[email protected] writes:
<< I think that all depends on what "social skills" you think are "good".
Don't you hate that...
Pam G. >>
Yep, exactly.
And she's never met any of my kids but others at work have and raved about
how Trevor was NOT like other teens (so maybe different is good and she can't
see that?)
because he can carry on a conversation about, well...anything! And he's
personable and fun and funny.
Whatever.
I had to really laugh about her thinking she can pick out the homeschooled
kids, I need to ask her if she can pick out the homeschooled people we work
with!!
There are two homeschooled adults there that I know of personally.
I informed the girl that works in the Juniors department to watch out, cuz
someone at the Lauder counter thinks homeschoolers are "weird", she was
pissed.
A customer approached right as I was getting to that point, so I didn't get
the chance to point out that we work with homeschoolers (and I bet she can't
tell them from anyone else for crying out loud!!) .
But if it comes up again, you can bet I'll be asking her to point out the
homeschoolers at Dillards.
Sheesh.
She irritates the hell out of me anyway though. I think she'd like government
in control of everything. Germany a few years back may have suited her better.
Ren
"The sun is shining--the sun is shining. That is the magic. The flowers are
growing--the roots are stirring. That is the magic. Being alive is the
magic--being strong is the magic The magic is in me--the magic is in
me....It's in every one of us."
----Frances Hodgson Burnett
Robyn Coburn
<<I also told her that she'll never produce convincing studies to prove
that
homeschoolers are poorly socialized. She thinks she can. BARF!!>>
She probably can produce studies that will seem convincing to
non-homeschoolers, by using all kinds of tricks in her study design. The
problem is that these studies become conventional wisdom, or are used to
determine public policy. Poorly designed studies get challenged,
however. Do you remember the recent study that showed that co-sleeping
was deadly to children? It was sponsored by an organization that
represents crib manufacturers, and was challenged strongly on the
grounds of what it left out of the statistics (parental inebriation for
example). That didn't stop one of the workmen doing the roof at our
complex from giving me a lecture about how unsafe it was to let Jayn
sleep with me, when I was generous enough to let him use my bathroom!
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
that
homeschoolers are poorly socialized. She thinks she can. BARF!!>>
She probably can produce studies that will seem convincing to
non-homeschoolers, by using all kinds of tricks in her study design. The
problem is that these studies become conventional wisdom, or are used to
determine public policy. Poorly designed studies get challenged,
however. Do you remember the recent study that showed that co-sleeping
was deadly to children? It was sponsored by an organization that
represents crib manufacturers, and was challenged strongly on the
grounds of what it left out of the statistics (parental inebriation for
example). That didn't stop one of the workmen doing the roof at our
complex from giving me a lecture about how unsafe it was to let Jayn
sleep with me, when I was generous enough to let him use my bathroom!
Robyn Coburn
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]