TWTM--quotes about unschooling
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
pp 484-485
"Also, you may find that your local home-school support group is
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."
This is the main place I found that deals with unschooling. I
thought there was a reference in the intro too but can't find it now.
The two authors, Susan and Jesse, believe in early phonics and
reading as well. (Susan is the daughter and Jesse is the
mother).
When I read TWTM, I like the idea of offering a child wonderful
ideas and facts of other places and times, teaching them to
reason and put their thoughts into competent writing and
enabling them to interact with information from a rich variety of
sources.
What got to us after using it as a "plan" is that the very goal I
wanted to achieve (that the child would be excited by and
stimulate in his/her education) became drudgery and the very
things I hoped would catch fire became onerous. By leaving the
kids alone, and by providing lots of great books to read, and
enjoying them together as they've been inteested, we've ended
up learning about many of the very topics Susan imagines they
wouldn't cover... left to themselves.
Anyway, nuff said. :)
Julie B
"Also, you may find that your local home-school support group is
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."
This is the main place I found that deals with unschooling. I
thought there was a reference in the intro too but can't find it now.
The two authors, Susan and Jesse, believe in early phonics and
reading as well. (Susan is the daughter and Jesse is the
mother).
When I read TWTM, I like the idea of offering a child wonderful
ideas and facts of other places and times, teaching them to
reason and put their thoughts into competent writing and
enabling them to interact with information from a rich variety of
sources.
What got to us after using it as a "plan" is that the very goal I
wanted to achieve (that the child would be excited by and
stimulate in his/her education) became drudgery and the very
things I hoped would catch fire became onerous. By leaving the
kids alone, and by providing lots of great books to read, and
enjoying them together as they've been inteested, we've ended
up learning about many of the very topics Susan imagines they
wouldn't cover... left to themselves.
Anyway, nuff said. :)
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 4:28:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
from the library a few years ago and remembered that there was at least one
passage that criticized unschooling and several paragraphs of instruction
that made me shake my head.
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie@... writes:
>Thank you for posting the quotes from TWTM, Julie. I checked out the book
> This is the main place I found that deals with unschooling. I
> thought there was a reference in the intro too but can't find it now.
> The two authors, Susan and Jesse, believe in early phonics and
> reading as well. (Susan is the daughter and Jesse is the
> mother).
>
from the library a few years ago and remembered that there was at least one
passage that criticized unschooling and several paragraphs of instruction
that made me shake my head.
Amy Kagey
E-mail me for a list of used
homeschooling books for sale!
<A HREF="http://www.ubah.com/ecommerce/default.asp?sid=Z0939&gid=462366">Shop: Usborne Books!</A>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 2:29:09 PM, julie@... writes:
<< They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
I hope it's a typo, because I have NO IDEA what "puella" means.
About the rest, I have to say "Wow" and "yikes."
I'll let you know when I get back from this conference how I survived. <g>
IF I survived.
http://www.shbe.info/pages/convention.htm
If anyone hasn't looked at who the other speakers will be, here is the lineup:
SIGMUND BROUWER IS A RENOWNED AUTHOR OF OVER 50 BOOKS. HIS BOOKS ARE ON OVER
2,000,000 BOOKSHELVES. He is a sought after speaker in home based education
circles as a well as being a very popular informational and motivational
speaker in public circles in the US and Canada. We want to thank Sigmund for
giving us a special rate that has allowed us to bring him in on our limited
convention budget.
Sandra Dodd is a popular speaker in the US at home based education functions.
She looks forward to her first time to talk with Saskatchewan home based
educators. Sandra Dodd taught English for 6 years in New Mexico, before they
choose to home educate their family. None of her children have attended
public school. She has mastered the art of educating without rigid structure.
Cheryl Garrett IS COMING AS A FEATURE SPEAKER. There have been so many
requests for her that we have chosen to invite her for 2003 convention. She
specializes in classical education and organizing your home based education.
HSLDA has been invited by popular request also. It is unfortunate that Dallas
Miller cannot atttend, but he had assured us the someone from the
organization will come to give us some of the update on home based education
situations at home and abroad. It is always important for us to keep abreast
of UN and federal legislation, etc. that can seriously effect our lives and
the education of our children.
<< They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
>>Puella?
I hope it's a typo, because I have NO IDEA what "puella" means.
About the rest, I have to say "Wow" and "yikes."
I'll let you know when I get back from this conference how I survived. <g>
IF I survived.
http://www.shbe.info/pages/convention.htm
If anyone hasn't looked at who the other speakers will be, here is the lineup:
SIGMUND BROUWER IS A RENOWNED AUTHOR OF OVER 50 BOOKS. HIS BOOKS ARE ON OVER
2,000,000 BOOKSHELVES. He is a sought after speaker in home based education
circles as a well as being a very popular informational and motivational
speaker in public circles in the US and Canada. We want to thank Sigmund for
giving us a special rate that has allowed us to bring him in on our limited
convention budget.
Sandra Dodd is a popular speaker in the US at home based education functions.
She looks forward to her first time to talk with Saskatchewan home based
educators. Sandra Dodd taught English for 6 years in New Mexico, before they
choose to home educate their family. None of her children have attended
public school. She has mastered the art of educating without rigid structure.
Cheryl Garrett IS COMING AS A FEATURE SPEAKER. There have been so many
requests for her that we have chosen to invite her for 2003 convention. She
specializes in classical education and organizing your home based education.
HSLDA has been invited by popular request also. It is unfortunate that Dallas
Miller cannot atttend, but he had assured us the someone from the
organization will come to give us some of the update on home based education
situations at home and abroad. It is always important for us to keep abreast
of UN and federal legislation, etc. that can seriously effect our lives and
the education of our children.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 2:29:09 PM, julie@... writes:
<< Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. >>
It's just SO foreign.
Altogether foreign.
But I do need to really read and think about it so I'll know how to respond
to their concerns.
I don't HAVE "students" in my home and they never "hit sixth grade," and if I
just even said that, the people would just look at me as though I just fell
out of a well.
But I have kids who can multiply in their heads. And they actually MULTIPLY,
they didn't memorize the answers. SHEEEESH!!!
<g>
Sandra
<< Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. >>
It's just SO foreign.
Altogether foreign.
But I do need to really read and think about it so I'll know how to respond
to their concerns.
I don't HAVE "students" in my home and they never "hit sixth grade," and if I
just even said that, the people would just look at me as though I just fell
out of a well.
But I have kids who can multiply in their heads. And they actually MULTIPLY,
they didn't memorize the answers. SHEEEESH!!!
<g>
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 2:29:09 PM, julie@... writes:
<< If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups. >>
Sorry. I keep looking at it and it all totally stuns me.
Yes, if you want to believe what the book says about unschooling it will help
greatly if you stay away from any actual unschoolers!!!!
I knew people felt that way, but I didn't know they were charging people
money to "learn" about unschooling from them.
I am getting the physical willies. Shivering. Maybe I'll go drink some warm
tea and turn up the furnace.
But thank you VERY much for typing that in. I printed it out to put with my
workshop notes to study between now and then. It will help for me to have
names, so if someone says "What do you think about Susan Bauer's writings" I
won't have to say "WHO!?" but I can suavely say, "Oh, The Well Trained Mind?"
So thanks!!
Sandra
<< If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups. >>
Sorry. I keep looking at it and it all totally stuns me.
Yes, if you want to believe what the book says about unschooling it will help
greatly if you stay away from any actual unschoolers!!!!
I knew people felt that way, but I didn't know they were charging people
money to "learn" about unschooling from them.
I am getting the physical willies. Shivering. Maybe I'll go drink some warm
tea and turn up the furnace.
But thank you VERY much for typing that in. I printed it out to put with my
workshop notes to study between now and then. It will help for me to have
names, so if someone says "What do you think about Susan Bauer's writings" I
won't have to say "WHO!?" but I can suavely say, "Oh, The Well Trained Mind?"
So thanks!!
Sandra
Jim Selvage
Puella is Latin for girl.
erin
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
erin
> << They also knowlineup:
> where their country came from, how to construct a logical
> argument, and what puella means.
> >>
>
> Puella?
> I hope it's a typo, because I have NO IDEA what "puella" means.
>
> About the rest, I have to say "Wow" and "yikes."
>
> I'll let you know when I get back from this conference how I survived. <g>
> IF I survived.
>
> http://www.shbe.info/pages/convention.htm
>
> If anyone hasn't looked at who the other speakers will be, here is the
>OVER
> SIGMUND BROUWER IS A RENOWNED AUTHOR OF OVER 50 BOOKS. HIS BOOKS ARE ON
> 2,000,000 BOOKSHELVES. He is a sought after speaker in home basededucation
> circles as a well as being a very popular informational and motivationalfor
> speaker in public circles in the US and Canada. We want to thank Sigmund
> giving us a special rate that has allowed us to bring him in on ourlimited
> convention budget.functions.
>
> Sandra Dodd is a popular speaker in the US at home based education
> She looks forward to her first time to talk with Saskatchewan home basedthey
> educators. Sandra Dodd taught English for 6 years in New Mexico, before
> choose to home educate their family. None of her children have attendedstructure.
> public school. She has mastered the art of educating without rigid
>She
> Cheryl Garrett IS COMING AS A FEATURE SPEAKER. There have been so many
> requests for her that we have chosen to invite her for 2003 convention.
> specializes in classical education and organizing your home basededucation.
>Dallas
> HSLDA has been invited by popular request also. It is unfortunate that
> Miller cannot atttend, but he had assured us the someone from theeducation
> organization will come to give us some of the update on home based
> situations at home and abroad. It is always important for us to keepabreast
> of UN and federal legislation, etc. that can seriously effect our livesand
> the education of our children.the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 3:21:22 PM, jselvage@... writes:
<< Puella is Latin for girl. >>
Okay. Thanks.
I know of no famous Latin quotes about girls, nor has the word survived as a
root in any French or English words with which I'm familiar.
It doesn't hurt my feelings not to know it.
My kids don't know "puella," but they know that kids can learn to read and
multiply without being taught. <g>
Sandra
<< Puella is Latin for girl. >>
Okay. Thanks.
I know of no famous Latin quotes about girls, nor has the word survived as a
root in any French or English words with which I'm familiar.
It doesn't hurt my feelings not to know it.
My kids don't know "puella," but they know that kids can learn to read and
multiply without being taught. <g>
Sandra
Kelly
I must confess that before I discovered unschooling, we used The Well-Trained Mind. I now politely refer to it as The Well-Fried Mind. My children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
They start Latin in 3rd grade and my oldest was drowning within 6 months from the intensive English, Math, and Latin requirements, as well as their requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well, plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
My children would start their day at 8 am and we were lucky if we had everything finished by 4 pm.
This was NOT what I started homeschooling for!!! They were soon crying when it was time to do school! :(
It might work for some, but it certainly didn't work for my kids. They needed to seriously de-school before they even wanted to tackle anything remotely "educational".
The MHEA Conference in Maryland (my state!) is the 5th of April and it's predominantly an unschooling conference and they're having Jessie Wise as their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
Kelly
They start Latin in 3rd grade and my oldest was drowning within 6 months from the intensive English, Math, and Latin requirements, as well as their requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well, plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
My children would start their day at 8 am and we were lucky if we had everything finished by 4 pm.
This was NOT what I started homeschooling for!!! They were soon crying when it was time to do school! :(
It might work for some, but it certainly didn't work for my kids. They needed to seriously de-school before they even wanted to tackle anything remotely "educational".
The MHEA Conference in Maryland (my state!) is the 5th of April and it's predominantly an unschooling conference and they're having Jessie Wise as their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
Kelly
----- Original Message -----
From: SandraDodd@...
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TWTM--quotes about unschooling
In a message dated 1/26/03 2:29:09 PM, julie@... writes:
<< If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups. >>
Sorry. I keep looking at it and it all totally stuns me.
Yes, if you want to believe what the book says about unschooling it will help
greatly if you stay away from any actual unschoolers!!!!
I knew people felt that way, but I didn't know they were charging people
money to "learn" about unschooling from them.
I am getting the physical willies. Shivering. Maybe I'll go drink some warm
tea and turn up the furnace.
But thank you VERY much for typing that in. I printed it out to put with my
workshop notes to study between now and then. It will help for me to have
names, so if someone says "What do you think about Susan Bauer's writings" I
won't have to say "WHO!?" but I can suavely say, "Oh, The Well Trained Mind?"
So thanks!!
Sandra
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
I acutually don't think knowing what "puella" means has had any positive
effect on my life either. I just learned it when the kids and I took a dive
into learning latin after reading TWTM - of course we know very little, and
I was the only one that was actually interested, the kids could care less.
Though my daughter would like to learn German. I like languages and may go
back to studying Latin now that I don't have to spend all my time correcting
their school work, lol.
blessings,
erin
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
effect on my life either. I just learned it when the kids and I took a dive
into learning latin after reading TWTM - of course we know very little, and
I was the only one that was actually interested, the kids could care less.
Though my daughter would like to learn German. I like languages and may go
back to studying Latin now that I don't have to spend all my time correcting
their school work, lol.
blessings,
erin
> << Puella is Latin for girl. >>a
>
> Okay. Thanks.
>
> I know of no famous Latin quotes about girls, nor has the word survived as
> root in any French or English words with which I'm familiar.the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
>
> It doesn't hurt my feelings not to know it.
>
> My kids don't know "puella," but they know that kids can learn to read and
> multiply without being taught. <g>
>
> Sandra
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>email to:
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Jim Selvage
Kelly,
We had the same result with TWTM, my children were older, started when they
were about 11 and 12. I don't think we ever finished school by 4:00 p.m.
(And we were all stressed!) My son, especially, would spend hours trying not
to do the outlining and any other writing! I have great schoolish looking
stuff for his "cumulative" file, but he hated every minute of it! Now, I
have nothing for his file, but he is smiling!
I don't think tyour conference is going to go very well, lol. You might
want to go incognito! We have the opposite situation here. Our convention
will be featuring John Taylor Gatto (I can't wait!) and I would say about
99% of the people would relate to the Bauers much better. I would asked if
you wanted to trade, but I am really looking forward to this. I imagine
most of my homeschooling friends will be skipping all of the general
sessions after the first one, and I will be skipping everything but the
general sessions!
blessings,
erin
children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well,
plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
remotely "educational".
their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm
wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
We had the same result with TWTM, my children were older, started when they
were about 11 and 12. I don't think we ever finished school by 4:00 p.m.
(And we were all stressed!) My son, especially, would spend hours trying not
to do the outlining and any other writing! I have great schoolish looking
stuff for his "cumulative" file, but he hated every minute of it! Now, I
have nothing for his file, but he is smiling!
I don't think tyour conference is going to go very well, lol. You might
want to go incognito! We have the opposite situation here. Our convention
will be featuring John Taylor Gatto (I can't wait!) and I would say about
99% of the people would relate to the Bauers much better. I would asked if
you wanted to trade, but I am really looking forward to this. I imagine
most of my homeschooling friends will be skipping all of the general
sessions after the first one, and I will be skipping everything but the
general sessions!
blessings,
erin
> I must confess that before I discovered unschooling, we used TheWell-Trained Mind. I now politely refer to it as The Well-Fried Mind. My
children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
>from the intensive English, Math, and Latin requirements, as well as their
> They start Latin in 3rd grade and my oldest was drowning within 6 months
requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well,
plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
>everything finished by 4 pm.
> My children would start their day at 8 am and we were lucky if we had
>when it was time to do school! :(
> This was NOT what I started homeschooling for!!! They were soon crying
>needed to seriously de-school before they even wanted to tackle anything
> It might work for some, but it certainly didn't work for my kids. They
remotely "educational".
>predominantly an unschooling conference and they're having Jessie Wise as
> The MHEA Conference in Maryland (my state!) is the 5th of April and it's
their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm
wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
>
> Kelly
Kelli Traaseth
**"Also, you may find that your local home-school support group is
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."**
Ewwwwww,
And I hadn't even gotten to that!!
Kelli
"Julie Bogart <julie@...>" <julie@...> wrote:pp 484-485
"Also, you may find that your local home-school support group is
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."
This is the main place I found that deals with unschooling. I
thought there was a reference in the intro too but can't find it now.
The two authors, Susan and Jesse, believe in early phonics and
reading as well. (Susan is the daughter and Jesse is the
mother).
When I read TWTM, I like the idea of offering a child wonderful
ideas and facts of other places and times, teaching them to
reason and put their thoughts into competent writing and
enabling them to interact with information from a rich variety of
sources.
What got to us after using it as a "plan" is that the very goal I
wanted to achieve (that the child would be excited by and
stimulate in his/her education) became drudgery and the very
things I hoped would catch fire became onerous. By leaving the
kids alone, and by providing lots of great books to read, and
enjoying them together as they've been inteested, we've ended
up learning about many of the very topics Susan imagines they
wouldn't cover... left to themselves.
Anyway, nuff said. :)
Julie B
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."**
Ewwwwww,
And I hadn't even gotten to that!!
Kelli
"Julie Bogart <julie@...>" <julie@...> wrote:pp 484-485
"Also, you may find that your local home-school support group is
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."
This is the main place I found that deals with unschooling. I
thought there was a reference in the intro too but can't find it now.
The two authors, Susan and Jesse, believe in early phonics and
reading as well. (Susan is the daughter and Jesse is the
mother).
When I read TWTM, I like the idea of offering a child wonderful
ideas and facts of other places and times, teaching them to
reason and put their thoughts into competent writing and
enabling them to interact with information from a rich variety of
sources.
What got to us after using it as a "plan" is that the very goal I
wanted to achieve (that the child would be excited by and
stimulate in his/her education) became drudgery and the very
things I hoped would catch fire became onerous. By leaving the
kids alone, and by providing lots of great books to read, and
enjoying them together as they've been inteested, we've ended
up learning about many of the very topics Susan imagines they
wouldn't cover... left to themselves.
Anyway, nuff said. :)
Julie B
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Have a Nice Day!
Just a quick thought. I haven't read the other posts.
But the authors of TWTM also leave out the many OTHER wonderful, challenging, and difficult subjects that unschoolers learn about that are not even covered in TWTM like video game creation, fashion design, computer technology, electric wiring, etc
ALL of which could provide a substantial income.
Kristen
But the authors of TWTM also leave out the many OTHER wonderful, challenging, and difficult subjects that unschoolers learn about that are not even covered in TWTM like video game creation, fashion design, computer technology, electric wiring, etc
ALL of which could provide a substantial income.
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Julie Bogart <julie@...>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 4:28 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] TWTM--quotes about unschooling
pp 484-485
"Also, you may find that your local home-school support group is
populated mostly by "unschoolers." Classical education is
diametrically opposed to "unschooling," which is immensely
popular among many homeschoolers. "Unschooling is
child-centered. It assumes that the child will learn all that she
needs to know by following her natural impulses and that any
learning that is "imposed" on the child by an authority figure will
prove unproductive.
Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. it
attempts to teach knowledge in a way that awakens the child's
interest, but the child's interest is not the sole determining factor
in whether or not a subject should be followed. How does a child
know whether something will interest and excite her unless she
works at unfamiliar (and perhaps intimidating) material to find
out what it's all about?
Unschoolers also tend to denigrate "book" learning in favor of
"real" learning. Many unschoolers claim that day-to-day realities
of family life provide plenty of opportunities for learning. for these
unschoolers, taking care of the house, grocery shopping,
cooking, car repair, working in the family business, writing
thank-you notes, and so on provide enough opportunity for
children to learn real-life skills without "doing school" om a
formal way.
While this may be true, a child's education shouldn't be limited to
"real life skills." Classically educated children should be able to
cook, write thank-you notes and tie their shoes. They also know
where their country came from, how to construct a logical
argument, and what puella means.
Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.
If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups."
This is the main place I found that deals with unschooling. I
thought there was a reference in the intro too but can't find it now.
The two authors, Susan and Jesse, believe in early phonics and
reading as well. (Susan is the daughter and Jesse is the
mother).
When I read TWTM, I like the idea of offering a child wonderful
ideas and facts of other places and times, teaching them to
reason and put their thoughts into competent writing and
enabling them to interact with information from a rich variety of
sources.
What got to us after using it as a "plan" is that the very goal I
wanted to achieve (that the child would be excited by and
stimulate in his/her education) became drudgery and the very
things I hoped would catch fire became onerous. By leaving the
kids alone, and by providing lots of great books to read, and
enjoying them together as they've been inteested, we've ended
up learning about many of the very topics Susan imagines they
wouldn't cover... left to themselves.
Anyway, nuff said. :)
Julie B
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Erin,
**Our convention**
Where is this going to be?
Fargo? Grand forks?
Kelli
Jim Selvage <jselvage@...> wrote:Kelly,
We had the same result with TWTM, my children were older, started when they
were about 11 and 12. I don't think we ever finished school by 4:00 p.m.
(And we were all stressed!) My son, especially, would spend hours trying not
to do the outlining and any other writing! I have great schoolish looking
stuff for his "cumulative" file, but he hated every minute of it! Now, I
have nothing for his file, but he is smiling!
I don't think tyour conference is going to go very well, lol. You might
want to go incognito! We have the opposite situation here. Our convention
will be featuring John Taylor Gatto (I can't wait!) and I would say about
99% of the people would relate to the Bauers much better. I would asked if
you wanted to trade, but I am really looking forward to this. I imagine
most of my homeschooling friends will be skipping all of the general
sessions after the first one, and I will be skipping everything but the
general sessions!
blessings,
erin
children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well,
plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
remotely "educational".
their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm
wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
**Our convention**
Where is this going to be?
Fargo? Grand forks?
Kelli
Jim Selvage <jselvage@...> wrote:Kelly,
We had the same result with TWTM, my children were older, started when they
were about 11 and 12. I don't think we ever finished school by 4:00 p.m.
(And we were all stressed!) My son, especially, would spend hours trying not
to do the outlining and any other writing! I have great schoolish looking
stuff for his "cumulative" file, but he hated every minute of it! Now, I
have nothing for his file, but he is smiling!
I don't think tyour conference is going to go very well, lol. You might
want to go incognito! We have the opposite situation here. Our convention
will be featuring John Taylor Gatto (I can't wait!) and I would say about
99% of the people would relate to the Bauers much better. I would asked if
you wanted to trade, but I am really looking forward to this. I imagine
most of my homeschooling friends will be skipping all of the general
sessions after the first one, and I will be skipping everything but the
general sessions!
blessings,
erin
> I must confess that before I discovered unschooling, we used TheWell-Trained Mind. I now politely refer to it as The Well-Fried Mind. My
children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
>from the intensive English, Math, and Latin requirements, as well as their
> They start Latin in 3rd grade and my oldest was drowning within 6 months
requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well,
plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
>everything finished by 4 pm.
> My children would start their day at 8 am and we were lucky if we had
>when it was time to do school! :(
> This was NOT what I started homeschooling for!!! They were soon crying
>needed to seriously de-school before they even wanted to tackle anything
> It might work for some, but it certainly didn't work for my kids. They
remotely "educational".
>predominantly an unschooling conference and they're having Jessie Wise as
> The MHEA Conference in Maryland (my state!) is the 5th of April and it's
their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm
wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
>Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> Kelly
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 4:29:23 PM, litlrooh@... writes:
<< But the authors of TWTM also leave out the many OTHER wonderful,
challenging, and difficult subjects that unschoolers learn about that are not
even covered in TWTM like video game creation, fashion design, computer
technology, electric wiring, etc
<<ALL of which could provide a substantial income. >>
But are they CLASSICAL?
Are they "REAL" in the real way that Ivy League colleges are real?
Does Harvard give PhDs in video game creation, fashion design or electrical
wiring?
Sandra
<< But the authors of TWTM also leave out the many OTHER wonderful,
challenging, and difficult subjects that unschoolers learn about that are not
even covered in TWTM like video game creation, fashion design, computer
technology, electric wiring, etc
<<ALL of which could provide a substantial income. >>
But are they CLASSICAL?
Are they "REAL" in the real way that Ivy League colleges are real?
Does Harvard give PhDs in video game creation, fashion design or electrical
wiring?
Sandra
Betsy
<< If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want to
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups. >>
Fast! Before "your kids" figure out that the other kids are having a
lot more fun.
(At least, that could be what she means.)
I'm imagining a Well Trained Mom at a park day outnumbered by
unschoolers. "I just can't get Johnny to memorize his list of
pharoahs," she sighs.
She might be in danger of having someone snort and accidently spray her
with Pepsi or some other newfangled beverage.
Betsy
PS (I do know some lovely homeschooling moms that have chosen the WTM
approach for their kids. I don't snort and spit at them IRL, honest.
But the quote from the book is just too damned provocative.)
**so if someone says "What do you think about Susan Bauer's writings" I
won't have to say "WHO!?" but I can suavely say, "Oh, The Well Trained
Mind?" **
Also, if you look at her book on Amazon, you can see book recommendation
lists for classical homeschooling that include her book. Looking at
those lists is an interesting form of anthropology or sociology or
snoopology, whatever.
follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
need to switch groups. >>
Fast! Before "your kids" figure out that the other kids are having a
lot more fun.
(At least, that could be what she means.)
I'm imagining a Well Trained Mom at a park day outnumbered by
unschoolers. "I just can't get Johnny to memorize his list of
pharoahs," she sighs.
She might be in danger of having someone snort and accidently spray her
with Pepsi or some other newfangled beverage.
Betsy
PS (I do know some lovely homeschooling moms that have chosen the WTM
approach for their kids. I don't snort and spit at them IRL, honest.
But the quote from the book is just too damned provocative.)
**so if someone says "What do you think about Susan Bauer's writings" I
won't have to say "WHO!?" but I can suavely say, "Oh, The Well Trained
Mind?" **
Also, if you look at her book on Amazon, you can see book recommendation
lists for classical homeschooling that include her book. Looking at
those lists is an interesting form of anthropology or sociology or
snoopology, whatever.
Betsy
**Unschoolers claim that students who aren't forced to learn
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.**
This jumped out at me, the "in our experience" part.
What experience? How much experience does she have with unschooled
children? Or is she extrapolating from schooled children that didn't
learn their times tables at the proper times?
Betsy
mathematics tables in third grade can pick them up in a day
once they hit sixth or seventh grade and get interested on their
own. In our experience, the student who doesn't learn the math
tables in third grade will never be comfortable enough with math
to get interested in sixth or seventh grade.**
This jumped out at me, the "in our experience" part.
What experience? How much experience does she have with unschooled
children? Or is she extrapolating from schooled children that didn't
learn their times tables at the proper times?
Betsy
Jim Selvage
Kelli,
Sponsored by North Dakota Home School Association at
Fargo, Holiday Inn 3803 13th Ave. S
blessings,
erin
Sponsored by North Dakota Home School Association at
Fargo, Holiday Inn 3803 13th Ave. S
blessings,
erin
>
> Erin,
> **Our convention**
> Where is this going to be?
>
> Fargo? Grand forks?
>
> Kelli
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 5:09:23 PM, ecsamhill@... writes:
<< She might be in danger of having someone snort and accidently spray her
with Pepsi or some other newfangled beverage. >>
CLASSIC COKE!
<< She might be in danger of having someone snort and accidently spray her
with Pepsi or some other newfangled beverage. >>
CLASSIC COKE!
Kelly
Oh!!! I love John Taylor Gatto!!! He's my favorite author by far!! I'm known in my unschooling group as the Gatto Groupie ;)
Kelly
Kelly
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Selvage
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TWTM--quotes about unschooling
Kelly,
We had the same result with TWTM, my children were older, started when they
were about 11 and 12. I don't think we ever finished school by 4:00 p.m.
(And we were all stressed!) My son, especially, would spend hours trying not
to do the outlining and any other writing! I have great schoolish looking
stuff for his "cumulative" file, but he hated every minute of it! Now, I
have nothing for his file, but he is smiling!
I don't think tyour conference is going to go very well, lol. You might
want to go incognito! We have the opposite situation here. Our convention
will be featuring John Taylor Gatto (I can't wait!) and I would say about
99% of the people would relate to the Bauers much better. I would asked if
you wanted to trade, but I am really looking forward to this. I imagine
most of my homeschooling friends will be skipping all of the general
sessions after the first one, and I will be skipping everything but the
general sessions!
blessings,
erin
> I must confess that before I discovered unschooling, we used The
Well-Trained Mind. I now politely refer to it as The Well-Fried Mind. My
children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
>
> They start Latin in 3rd grade and my oldest was drowning within 6 months
from the intensive English, Math, and Latin requirements, as well as their
requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well,
plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
>
> My children would start their day at 8 am and we were lucky if we had
everything finished by 4 pm.
>
> This was NOT what I started homeschooling for!!! They were soon crying
when it was time to do school! :(
>
> It might work for some, but it certainly didn't work for my kids. They
needed to seriously de-school before they even wanted to tackle anything
remotely "educational".
>
> The MHEA Conference in Maryland (my state!) is the 5th of April and it's
predominantly an unschooling conference and they're having Jessie Wise as
their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm
wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
>
> Kelly
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Gerard Westenberg
<<Classical education is knowledge-focused, not child-focused. >>
This quote was really interesting to me, given that I am re-reading David Guterson's Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense.
Guterson argues, in chapter one, that good education *should be child centred - we are talking about a real child and not a robot. After considering and adapting to the child, then look at the knowledge, method, whatever, he says. The child and his/her needs are more important than the method and facts. Then any learning is real, relevant, remembered... ...
I have read TWTM. I have also read Gatto. Both talk about the importance, to our civilisation, of thinking and not just following. Bauer/Wise suggest a structured curricula to teach thinking, which seems a contradiction in terms. Gatto suggests being with the child and their interests; using real life experiences and disussion. ....Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This quote was really interesting to me, given that I am re-reading David Guterson's Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense.
Guterson argues, in chapter one, that good education *should be child centred - we are talking about a real child and not a robot. After considering and adapting to the child, then look at the knowledge, method, whatever, he says. The child and his/her needs are more important than the method and facts. Then any learning is real, relevant, remembered... ...
I have read TWTM. I have also read Gatto. Both talk about the importance, to our civilisation, of thinking and not just following. Bauer/Wise suggest a structured curricula to teach thinking, which seems a contradiction in terms. Gatto suggests being with the child and their interests; using real life experiences and disussion. ....Leonie W.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
I'm psyched, its only 2 1/2 hours from me. I'll be there in March.
I wish I could bring a ton of people with me who question my unschooling and homeschooling choices. He would really make them think, I hand out my Dumbing Us Down to everyone, havn't handed out the Underground History yet tho' , its a bit intimidating for main stream folks who have never heard of his ideas before! I havn't worked my way through the whole thing yet either. This would probably be a good time, before I see him speak.
Kelli
Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:Oh!!! I love John Taylor Gatto!!! He's my favorite author by far!! I'm known in my unschooling group as the Gatto Groupie ;)
Kelly
I wish I could bring a ton of people with me who question my unschooling and homeschooling choices. He would really make them think, I hand out my Dumbing Us Down to everyone, havn't handed out the Underground History yet tho' , its a bit intimidating for main stream folks who have never heard of his ideas before! I havn't worked my way through the whole thing yet either. This would probably be a good time, before I see him speak.
Kelli
Kelly <apmomto4@...> wrote:Oh!!! I love John Taylor Gatto!!! He's my favorite author by far!! I'm known in my unschooling group as the Gatto Groupie ;)
Kelly
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Selvage
To: [email protected]
Sent: Sunday, January 26, 2003 5:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] TWTM--quotes about unschooling
Kelly,
We had the same result with TWTM, my children were older, started when they
were about 11 and 12. I don't think we ever finished school by 4:00 p.m.
(And we were all stressed!) My son, especially, would spend hours trying not
to do the outlining and any other writing! I have great schoolish looking
stuff for his "cumulative" file, but he hated every minute of it! Now, I
have nothing for his file, but he is smiling!
I don't think tyour conference is going to go very well, lol. You might
want to go incognito! We have the opposite situation here. Our convention
will be featuring John Taylor Gatto (I can't wait!) and I would say about
99% of the people would relate to the Bauers much better. I would asked if
you wanted to trade, but I am really looking forward to this. I imagine
most of my homeschooling friends will be skipping all of the general
sessions after the first one, and I will be skipping everything but the
general sessions!
blessings,
erin
> I must confess that before I discovered unschooling, we used The
Well-Trained Mind. I now politely refer to it as The Well-Fried Mind. My
children were SOOO stressed trying to follow this method!!!
>
> They start Latin in 3rd grade and my oldest was drowning within 6 months
from the intensive English, Math, and Latin requirements, as well as their
requirements for a chronological study of History and then Science as well,
plus Art, Music & Bible requirements.
>
> My children would start their day at 8 am and we were lucky if we had
everything finished by 4 pm.
>
> This was NOT what I started homeschooling for!!! They were soon crying
when it was time to do school! :(
>
> It might work for some, but it certainly didn't work for my kids. They
needed to seriously de-school before they even wanted to tackle anything
remotely "educational".
>
> The MHEA Conference in Maryland (my state!) is the 5th of April and it's
predominantly an unschooling conference and they're having Jessie Wise as
their guest speaker this year (the co-author of The Well-Trained Mind). I'm
wondering how it's going to work out!!! ::ducking in advance::
>
> Kelly
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 5:14:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
stopped me. I try to be accepting of other people and answer questions. So
far they have been more than accepting of me.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want toI am the only unschooler in both of the groups I go to and that hasn't
> follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
> need to switch groups. >>
>
>
stopped me. I try to be accepting of other people and answer questions. So
far they have been more than accepting of me.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 6:49:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
take a vacation around the convention. Love to go to places we have never
been before.
Pam G. in NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kellitraas@... writes:
> **Our convention**Somewhere and at a time when there is lots to do and see. We would come and
> Where is this going to be?
>
> Fargo? Grand forks?
>
>
take a vacation around the convention. Love to go to places we have never
been before.
Pam G. in NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], genant2@a...
wrote:
unschooler where I am. No danger of the poor classical
education person encountering a rabid group of unschoolers
here...
I felt that section was a dig against the unschooling community
and I couldn't figure out why. What are they trying to counter?
Julie B
wrote:
> In a message dated 1/26/03 5:14:58 PM Eastern StandardTime,
> SandraDodd@a... writes:to
>
> > <<If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want
> > follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'llprobably
> > need to switch groups. >>hasn't
> >
> >
>
> I am the only unschooler in both of the groups I go to and that
> stopped me. I try to be accepting of other people and answerquestions. So
> far they have been more than accepting of me.I know. I sort of chuckled rereading this part. I don't know a single
> Pam G.
unschooler where I am. No danger of the poor classical
education person encountering a rabid group of unschoolers
here...
I felt that section was a dig against the unschooling community
and I couldn't figure out why. What are they trying to counter?
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 8:44:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, genant2@...
writes:
life is usually radically different than the mainstream, but I (usually) get
along well with others and dont have a problem interacting with and enjoying
the company of others. Round here in the Bible Belt, it's not all bad, is
it.. :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> I try to be accepting of other people and answer questions.Pam, I think THAT is exactly the key. I know my approach to EVERYTHING in
life is usually radically different than the mainstream, but I (usually) get
along well with others and dont have a problem interacting with and enjoying
the company of others. Round here in the Bible Belt, it's not all bad, is
it.. :-)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 6:41:32 PM, westen@... writes:
<< Guterson argues, in chapter one, that good education *should be child
centred - we are talking about a real child and not a robot. After
considering and adapting to the child, then look at the knowledge, method,
whatever, he says. The child and his/her needs are more important than the
method and facts. >>
Thank you. I'm saving all this good stuff in case I'm ambushed by some
subset of 1,000 Christian homeschoolers in a foreign country.
Guterson's making sense!
Sometimes people have said kids can't possibly learn algebra in the real
world.
So I've said "What are you saying, that algebra doesn't exist in the real
world?"
"Yes."
And when they say "yes," that's the wrong answer, because I pin them to the
mat with
"Then why learn it?"
So I suppose some classically trained people could tell me in Latin that I'm
ig'nernt, but how many people would understand what they had just said OR
believe them?
Sandra
<< Guterson argues, in chapter one, that good education *should be child
centred - we are talking about a real child and not a robot. After
considering and adapting to the child, then look at the knowledge, method,
whatever, he says. The child and his/her needs are more important than the
method and facts. >>
Thank you. I'm saving all this good stuff in case I'm ambushed by some
subset of 1,000 Christian homeschoolers in a foreign country.
Guterson's making sense!
Sometimes people have said kids can't possibly learn algebra in the real
world.
So I've said "What are you saying, that algebra doesn't exist in the real
world?"
"Yes."
And when they say "yes," that's the wrong answer, because I pin them to the
mat with
"Then why learn it?"
So I suppose some classically trained people could tell me in Latin that I'm
ig'nernt, but how many people would understand what they had just said OR
believe them?
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 6:44:38 PM, genant2@... writes:
<< In a message dated 1/26/03 5:14:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
stopped me. I try to be accepting of other people and answer questions. So
far they have been more than accepting of me. >>
That's not my quote. That doesn't matter. It was a quote from a book on The
Well Trained Mind, recommending that people who are trying to follow that
method would NOT do well in a group full of unschoolers.
It's not about a single unschooler in other groups.
Sandra
<< In a message dated 1/26/03 5:14:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
> <<If you end up in a local group of unschoolers and you want toI am the only unschooler in both of the groups I go to and that hasn't
> follow the curriculum we've outlined in this book, you'll probably
> need to switch groups. >>
>
>
stopped me. I try to be accepting of other people and answer questions. So
far they have been more than accepting of me. >>
That's not my quote. That doesn't matter. It was a quote from a book on The
Well Trained Mind, recommending that people who are trying to follow that
method would NOT do well in a group full of unschoolers.
It's not about a single unschooler in other groups.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 9:00:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
time, sorry about that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> That's not my quote. That doesn't matterI knew that and usually delete the writen by part but it slipped by this
time, sorry about that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Um, you want to go on a vacation in March to Fargo, ND? <g>
Wow!
Kelli
genant2@... wrote:In a message dated 1/26/03 6:49:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
take a vacation around the convention. Love to go to places we have never
been before.
Pam G. in NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Wow!
Kelli
genant2@... wrote:In a message dated 1/26/03 6:49:59 PM Eastern Standard Time,
kellitraas@... writes:
> **Our convention**Somewhere and at a time when there is lots to do and see. We would come and
> Where is this going to be?
>
> Fargo? Grand forks?
>
>
take a vacation around the convention. Love to go to places we have never
been before.
Pam G. in NC
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 6:52:11 PM, julie@... writes:
<< I felt that section was a dig against the unschooling community
and I couldn't figure out why. What are they trying to counter? >>
I think it's the evil idea that children can have fun while they're learning.
The sin of sloth and the lack of discipline, I think.
And as happened just this week on the usually-very-quiet New Mexico list,
someone said that when I described unschooling (which I did because someone
asked) I made it seem that some of the things they were doing were
unnecessary.
"Seems, Madam? Nay, it is. I know not 'seems'."
I could've said that, but I didn't.
If a parent chooses to teach reading and another family's children learn to
read without that teaching, then that teaching has been proven to have been
unnecessary.
But if the parents have told the children repeatedly that they HAVE to do
what the mom's making them do or they won't learn to read, then our lives
make them liars.
If a parent tells a little kid that they HAVE to do book reports or they'll
never get into college, if my happy slacker kids go to college, that mother
was not truthful.
We are a great danger to parents who are forcing their children to "do work"
with threats and promises and guarantees.
Sandra
<< I felt that section was a dig against the unschooling community
and I couldn't figure out why. What are they trying to counter? >>
I think it's the evil idea that children can have fun while they're learning.
The sin of sloth and the lack of discipline, I think.
And as happened just this week on the usually-very-quiet New Mexico list,
someone said that when I described unschooling (which I did because someone
asked) I made it seem that some of the things they were doing were
unnecessary.
"Seems, Madam? Nay, it is. I know not 'seems'."
I could've said that, but I didn't.
If a parent chooses to teach reading and another family's children learn to
read without that teaching, then that teaching has been proven to have been
unnecessary.
But if the parents have told the children repeatedly that they HAVE to do
what the mom's making them do or they won't learn to read, then our lives
make them liars.
If a parent tells a little kid that they HAVE to do book reports or they'll
never get into college, if my happy slacker kids go to college, that mother
was not truthful.
We are a great danger to parents who are forcing their children to "do work"
with threats and promises and guarantees.
Sandra