aaargh, now the kid is hitting me!
Q
I'd really like some feedback on a situation with my son. Satori, who just
turned three last Sunday, has acquired the lovely habit of hitting me and
telling me to "Shut up". It happened again today and I'm ashamed to admit it
was all I could do to keep myself from hauling off and belting him! I really
am working on parenting consciously, and luckily I was able to control the
impulse. But If I had ever hit my mother I doubt I'd have lived to see my
next birthday and it is hard to overcome that early training, I really do
want to raise him in a loving way, without fear and violence. I do not think
it is OK to hit a child.
However, he does need to know that this behavior is unacceptable.
On a purely practical level, this kid is going to be bigger than me one day
and I really think it makes sense that he knows NOW that it is not OK to hit
people smaller than ourselves.
We don't have guns here in Japan but there are way too many stories in the
news of teenage boys going after their parents with knives or baseball bats.
The way I have dealt with it so far is, if we're at home I have him sit in
his chair until we both cool off. He sits in the chair willingly, I think he
realizes that we both need to take a moment, maybe more me than him. If we
are out (which is when it happens more often, BTW) he gets one warning along
the lines of "It is not OK to hit/say "shut up". If he does it again, we
leave immediately and go home.
I'm frustrated, it seems to keep happening in spite of my efforts....I've
had the suggestion from several people that I should not give him a warning,
but go home immediately the first time he does it. That seems very coercive
to me, and I'm really interested to see how this can be dealt with from an
unschooling point of view.
grrrr...he doesn't hit other kids or his father, just me. Gee I am soooo
lucky that I'm the one he can express his negative feelings to. This is not
fun. I am making an big effort not to hit him (please don't slam me for
admitting that it is an effort) and here I am getting pummeled.
Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? Is
this perhaps a situation where I do need to "control" him?
Hikaru
turned three last Sunday, has acquired the lovely habit of hitting me and
telling me to "Shut up". It happened again today and I'm ashamed to admit it
was all I could do to keep myself from hauling off and belting him! I really
am working on parenting consciously, and luckily I was able to control the
impulse. But If I had ever hit my mother I doubt I'd have lived to see my
next birthday and it is hard to overcome that early training, I really do
want to raise him in a loving way, without fear and violence. I do not think
it is OK to hit a child.
However, he does need to know that this behavior is unacceptable.
On a purely practical level, this kid is going to be bigger than me one day
and I really think it makes sense that he knows NOW that it is not OK to hit
people smaller than ourselves.
We don't have guns here in Japan but there are way too many stories in the
news of teenage boys going after their parents with knives or baseball bats.
The way I have dealt with it so far is, if we're at home I have him sit in
his chair until we both cool off. He sits in the chair willingly, I think he
realizes that we both need to take a moment, maybe more me than him. If we
are out (which is when it happens more often, BTW) he gets one warning along
the lines of "It is not OK to hit/say "shut up". If he does it again, we
leave immediately and go home.
I'm frustrated, it seems to keep happening in spite of my efforts....I've
had the suggestion from several people that I should not give him a warning,
but go home immediately the first time he does it. That seems very coercive
to me, and I'm really interested to see how this can be dealt with from an
unschooling point of view.
grrrr...he doesn't hit other kids or his father, just me. Gee I am soooo
lucky that I'm the one he can express his negative feelings to. This is not
fun. I am making an big effort not to hit him (please don't slam me for
admitting that it is an effort) and here I am getting pummeled.
Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? Is
this perhaps a situation where I do need to "control" him?
Hikaru
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 9:20:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
witchmama@... writes:
Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? Is
hurt---which is not too hard, because it really does hurt. Usually empathy
will set in, and you can talk about how much his hitting HURTS.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
witchmama@... writes:
Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? Is
> this perhaps a situation where I do need to "control" him?What has worked best for me---especially at that age---is to cry. Act REALLY
>
> Hikaru
hurt---which is not too hard, because it really does hurt. Usually empathy
will set in, and you can talk about how much his hitting HURTS.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
At 23:19 1/26/03 +0900, Hikaru wrote:
in that. :-)
know: It's what you do with your impulses that matter, not whether you
have them or not. Believe it or not, your ability to move through your
(understandable) impulse to lash out at your son when he lashes out at you
it giving him the gift of seeing a person *not* hit and be mean when that's
what they feel like doing. At least that's my take on this.
yourself. Period.
When you start seeing things from that point of view, you will see how
great it is that you are not hitting him back. When my son says or does
things that really bug me, I tell him how I feel. I don't belittle him but
I say things like, "I don't like that." I try to find out what's going on
with him, but I also let him know that I'm glad he lets me in on his
feelings. I treat him with compassion. If I'm too angry about what he's
said or done, I tell him that now is not a good time for us to be together
and I leave the room with the promise that when we are more calm we can
talk about the problem.
He's 8 years old now. He's a compassionate and gentle person, and he cares
about how I feel. When he's made at me, he lets me know it and he will
sometimes say hurtful things, but we're together all the time, and when
people are together all the time they are bound to bump heads. It's
okay. When he used to hit me, I reminded him that I don't hit him and he
can always tell me what his problem with me is. I also follow through by
working with him to resolve the problem. If the problem can't be resolved,
then I am sad with him.
The only other thing I can think of to say right now is that three years
old is really young to process strong emotions. He may need more help from
you in getting at his real feelings. You can say something like, "I can
see that you're really _____ right now." And fill in the blank with some
emotion that he may not be able to articulate so well. It'll show that
you're compassionate enough to help him rale at you. :-) But, because not
to add "but..." after you finish that sentence and tell him how
inappropriate his expression was. He knows it. Just trust that he'll be
happy to replace the old tools that did not work with the new tools that do.
You'll probably get a whole lot of better answers than this, but I really
wanted to let you know that I admire you very, very much for not acting on
the impulse to hit. Hooray for you!
Kind wishes,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>Gee I am soooo lucky that I'm the one he can express his negative feelingsI know you probably meant this tongue-in-cheek, but there is a big blessing
>to.
in that. :-)
>This is not fun. I am making an big effort not to hit him (please don'tSlam you!? How about admire you? That's what it's all about, ya
>slam me for admitting that it is an effort) and here I am getting pummeled.
know: It's what you do with your impulses that matter, not whether you
have them or not. Believe it or not, your ability to move through your
(understandable) impulse to lash out at your son when he lashes out at you
it giving him the gift of seeing a person *not* hit and be mean when that's
what they feel like doing. At least that's my take on this.
>Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? IsYou cannot control him. The only person in the world you can control is
>this perhaps a situation where I do need to "control" him?
yourself. Period.
When you start seeing things from that point of view, you will see how
great it is that you are not hitting him back. When my son says or does
things that really bug me, I tell him how I feel. I don't belittle him but
I say things like, "I don't like that." I try to find out what's going on
with him, but I also let him know that I'm glad he lets me in on his
feelings. I treat him with compassion. If I'm too angry about what he's
said or done, I tell him that now is not a good time for us to be together
and I leave the room with the promise that when we are more calm we can
talk about the problem.
He's 8 years old now. He's a compassionate and gentle person, and he cares
about how I feel. When he's made at me, he lets me know it and he will
sometimes say hurtful things, but we're together all the time, and when
people are together all the time they are bound to bump heads. It's
okay. When he used to hit me, I reminded him that I don't hit him and he
can always tell me what his problem with me is. I also follow through by
working with him to resolve the problem. If the problem can't be resolved,
then I am sad with him.
The only other thing I can think of to say right now is that three years
old is really young to process strong emotions. He may need more help from
you in getting at his real feelings. You can say something like, "I can
see that you're really _____ right now." And fill in the blank with some
emotion that he may not be able to articulate so well. It'll show that
you're compassionate enough to help him rale at you. :-) But, because not
to add "but..." after you finish that sentence and tell him how
inappropriate his expression was. He knows it. Just trust that he'll be
happy to replace the old tools that did not work with the new tools that do.
You'll probably get a whole lot of better answers than this, but I really
wanted to let you know that I admire you very, very much for not acting on
the impulse to hit. Hooray for you!
Kind wishes,
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
Sorry, I just have to go back and fix some things. (blushing here)
heh, heh sorry ~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>He's a compassionate and gentle person, and he cares about how IShould have been, "when he's mad at me..."
>feel. When he's made at me...
>And fill in the blank with some emotion that he may not be able toShould have been, "But, be careful not to add..."
>articulate so well. It'll show that you're compassionate enough to help
>him rale at you. :-) But, because not to add...
heh, heh sorry ~marji~
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
Hikaru,
My son used to do that too, usually during a meltdown of sorts. What worked for us was to hold him close to me. Giving him love. Talking with a calm voice. With me it was usually when I would try and get him to do something that he wasn't ready to do. Like napping, I would now do that alot differently, I've learned. What helped to avoid those tantrums was giving him little warnings like, we are going to go in 10 minutes and then in 5, same thing. So he could warm up to the change.
I would also tell him that "hitting isn't an option", or "we don't hit".
I don't think the punishment thing works, taking him away from the play group or what-ever. It doesn't really explain why the hitting is wrong behavior.
Hope this helps, I'm sure you'll have tons of other advice also!
Kelli
Q <witchmama@...> wrote:I'd really like some feedback on a situation with my son. Satori, who just
turned three last Sunday, has acquired the lovely habit of hitting me and
telling me to "Shut up". It happened again today and I'm ashamed to admit it
was all I could do to keep myself from hauling off and belting him! I really
am working on parenting consciously, and luckily I was able to control the
impulse. But If I had ever hit my mother I doubt I'd have lived to see my
next birthday and it is hard to overcome that early training, I really do
want to raise him in a loving way, without fear and violence. I do not think
it is OK to hit a child.
However, he does need to know that this behavior is unacceptable.
On a purely practical level, this kid is going to be bigger than me one day
and I really think it makes sense that he knows NOW that it is not OK to hit
people smaller than ourselves.
We don't have guns here in Japan but there are way too many stories in the
news of teenage boys going after their parents with knives or baseball bats.
The way I have dealt with it so far is, if we're at home I have him sit in
his chair until we both cool off. He sits in the chair willingly, I think he
realizes that we both need to take a moment, maybe more me than him. If we
are out (which is when it happens more often, BTW) he gets one warning along
the lines of "It is not OK to hit/say "shut up". If he does it again, we
leave immediately and go home.
I'm frustrated, it seems to keep happening in spite of my efforts....I've
had the suggestion from several people that I should not give him a warning,
but go home immediately the first time he does it. That seems very coercive
to me, and I'm really interested to see how this can be dealt with from an
unschooling point of view.
grrrr...he doesn't hit other kids or his father, just me. Gee I am soooo
lucky that I'm the one he can express his negative feelings to. This is not
fun. I am making an big effort not to hit him (please don't slam me for
admitting that it is an effort) and here I am getting pummeled.
Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? Is
this perhaps a situation where I do need to "control" him?
Hikaru
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
My son used to do that too, usually during a meltdown of sorts. What worked for us was to hold him close to me. Giving him love. Talking with a calm voice. With me it was usually when I would try and get him to do something that he wasn't ready to do. Like napping, I would now do that alot differently, I've learned. What helped to avoid those tantrums was giving him little warnings like, we are going to go in 10 minutes and then in 5, same thing. So he could warm up to the change.
I would also tell him that "hitting isn't an option", or "we don't hit".
I don't think the punishment thing works, taking him away from the play group or what-ever. It doesn't really explain why the hitting is wrong behavior.
Hope this helps, I'm sure you'll have tons of other advice also!
Kelli
Q <witchmama@...> wrote:I'd really like some feedback on a situation with my son. Satori, who just
turned three last Sunday, has acquired the lovely habit of hitting me and
telling me to "Shut up". It happened again today and I'm ashamed to admit it
was all I could do to keep myself from hauling off and belting him! I really
am working on parenting consciously, and luckily I was able to control the
impulse. But If I had ever hit my mother I doubt I'd have lived to see my
next birthday and it is hard to overcome that early training, I really do
want to raise him in a loving way, without fear and violence. I do not think
it is OK to hit a child.
However, he does need to know that this behavior is unacceptable.
On a purely practical level, this kid is going to be bigger than me one day
and I really think it makes sense that he knows NOW that it is not OK to hit
people smaller than ourselves.
We don't have guns here in Japan but there are way too many stories in the
news of teenage boys going after their parents with knives or baseball bats.
The way I have dealt with it so far is, if we're at home I have him sit in
his chair until we both cool off. He sits in the chair willingly, I think he
realizes that we both need to take a moment, maybe more me than him. If we
are out (which is when it happens more often, BTW) he gets one warning along
the lines of "It is not OK to hit/say "shut up". If he does it again, we
leave immediately and go home.
I'm frustrated, it seems to keep happening in spite of my efforts....I've
had the suggestion from several people that I should not give him a warning,
but go home immediately the first time he does it. That seems very coercive
to me, and I'm really interested to see how this can be dealt with from an
unschooling point of view.
grrrr...he doesn't hit other kids or his father, just me. Gee I am soooo
lucky that I'm the one he can express his negative feelings to. This is not
fun. I am making an big effort not to hit him (please don't slam me for
admitting that it is an effort) and here I am getting pummeled.
Has anyone else dealt with this problem and what did you do about it? Is
this perhaps a situation where I do need to "control" him?
Hikaru
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
[email protected]
Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 7:20:03 AM, witchmama@... writes:
<< But If I had ever hit my mother I doubt I'd have lived to see my
next birthday and it is hard to overcome that early training, >>
I understand that. Earlier years with my kids, sometimes I would just calmly
say "My mom would have hit me HARD if I had done that." And that got my
urge to connect with that AND to separate from it out, and helped my kids see
that I was struggling with the experiment of what ELSE to do.
-=- hitting me and
telling me to "Shut up". -=-
Who has taught him the phrase "shut up"?
If he's been told to shut up by ANYONE, maybe you should apologize to him and
hug him for the sad fact that someone has told him, at such a very young age,
"shut up" and tell him that it's not a nice thing for anyone to say to anyone.
[I'm not saying I would or never will say it, but by the time I get to the
"shut up" stage with someone, it's probably going to be "shut the f*** up
before I call the police" or it will be "Shut up about that, I TOLD you I
don't want my kids hearing that kind of nonsense."]
I was told to shut up many times by my mom, and when I my mind wanders over
my whole history with her, I don't feel bad that I don't talk to her much
anymore. She had her chance when I truly wanted to talk to her.
But back to the immediate problem...
The hitting comes after something or because of something. What?
If you hold him with his back to you and you hold his arms gently but pinned
and rock him back and forth, does he calm down?
You could pretend to cry and tell him that hurts your feelings. That's a
dramatic possibility I wouldln't use with anyone much older than two or
three, but it might help. You could YOURSELF hug yourself and rock back and
forth (if you don't want to pretend to cry) and when he questions what's up
you could say you need people to be gentle and nice with you and if he won't
hug you you'll have to hug yourself.
<<I really do
want to raise him in a loving way, without fear and violence. I do not think
it is OK to hit a child.
However, he does need to know that this behavior is unacceptable.>>
If he's old enough to have heard and repeated "shut up" he's old enough to
hear some peaceful messages in words.
Sandra
<< But If I had ever hit my mother I doubt I'd have lived to see my
next birthday and it is hard to overcome that early training, >>
I understand that. Earlier years with my kids, sometimes I would just calmly
say "My mom would have hit me HARD if I had done that." And that got my
urge to connect with that AND to separate from it out, and helped my kids see
that I was struggling with the experiment of what ELSE to do.
-=- hitting me and
telling me to "Shut up". -=-
Who has taught him the phrase "shut up"?
If he's been told to shut up by ANYONE, maybe you should apologize to him and
hug him for the sad fact that someone has told him, at such a very young age,
"shut up" and tell him that it's not a nice thing for anyone to say to anyone.
[I'm not saying I would or never will say it, but by the time I get to the
"shut up" stage with someone, it's probably going to be "shut the f*** up
before I call the police" or it will be "Shut up about that, I TOLD you I
don't want my kids hearing that kind of nonsense."]
I was told to shut up many times by my mom, and when I my mind wanders over
my whole history with her, I don't feel bad that I don't talk to her much
anymore. She had her chance when I truly wanted to talk to her.
But back to the immediate problem...
The hitting comes after something or because of something. What?
If you hold him with his back to you and you hold his arms gently but pinned
and rock him back and forth, does he calm down?
You could pretend to cry and tell him that hurts your feelings. That's a
dramatic possibility I wouldln't use with anyone much older than two or
three, but it might help. You could YOURSELF hug yourself and rock back and
forth (if you don't want to pretend to cry) and when he questions what's up
you could say you need people to be gentle and nice with you and if he won't
hug you you'll have to hug yourself.
<<I really do
want to raise him in a loving way, without fear and violence. I do not think
it is OK to hit a child.
However, he does need to know that this behavior is unacceptable.>>
If he's old enough to have heard and repeated "shut up" he's old enough to
hear some peaceful messages in words.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 7:44:26 AM, marji@... writes:
<< The only other thing I can think of to say right now is that three years
old is really young to process strong emotions. He may need more help from
you in getting at his real feelings. You can say something like, "I can
see that you're really _____ right now." And fill in the blank with some
emotion that he may not be able to articulate so well. It'll show that
you're compassionate enough to help him rale at you. :-) But, because not
to add "but..." after you finish that sentence and tell him how
inappropriate his expression was. He knows it. Just trust that he'll be
happy to replace the old tools that did not work with the new tools that do.
like "Do you want me to shut up or do you really just want to get to go
swimming?" or whatever it was. "If I could say yes to this, would you still
want me to shut up?"
But that said, I think there are lots of ways to say yes. "I want to go
swimming" can be "Yes, on Friday we'll go," or "Yes, first chance I get to
get Guin to take you again," or something.
"Yes" doesn't always mean RIGHT NOW.
And a little child might only be able to hear "NO" so many times before
feeling unheard or trapped, so "No, not until Friday" is WAY worse than "Yes,
on Friday."
Sandra
<< The only other thing I can think of to say right now is that three years
old is really young to process strong emotions. He may need more help from
you in getting at his real feelings. You can say something like, "I can
see that you're really _____ right now." And fill in the blank with some
emotion that he may not be able to articulate so well. It'll show that
you're compassionate enough to help him rale at you. :-) But, because not
to add "but..." after you finish that sentence and tell him how
inappropriate his expression was. He knows it. Just trust that he'll be
happy to replace the old tools that did not work with the new tools that do.
>>Marji's making a really good point. Maybe you could interpret him for him,
like "Do you want me to shut up or do you really just want to get to go
swimming?" or whatever it was. "If I could say yes to this, would you still
want me to shut up?"
But that said, I think there are lots of ways to say yes. "I want to go
swimming" can be "Yes, on Friday we'll go," or "Yes, first chance I get to
get Guin to take you again," or something.
"Yes" doesn't always mean RIGHT NOW.
And a little child might only be able to hear "NO" so many times before
feeling unheard or trapped, so "No, not until Friday" is WAY worse than "Yes,
on Friday."
Sandra
[email protected]
>I have seen various parenting methods as a former daycare provider.
> Hikaru
>
> I commend you on your honesty!
>
> With raising 3 of my own, I most likely have ran into this with my boys,
> when they were small.
Here's what I learned from experience, the day your child decides to run out
into the road before you can catch him, you better take back the control
now, so
at a moments notice, he will understand your warning voice.
So my two cents worth of "Honey, no, no.......so sweetly said, can never
save a child if he doesn't understand, and doesn't abide.
Linda L.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/26/03 12:42 PM, encadia@... at encadia@... wrote:
Joyce
> the day your child decides to run out into the road before you can catch him,Are you saying children need to learn to obey?
> you better take back the control now, so at a moments notice, he will
> understand your warning voice.
>
> So my two cents worth of "Honey, no, no.......so sweetly said, can never save
> a child if he doesn't understand, and doesn't abide.
Joyce
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
> on 1/26/03 12:42 PM, encadia@a... at encadia@a... wrote:can catch him,
>
> > the day your child decides to run out into the road before you
> > you better take back the control now, so at a moments notice,he will
> > understand your warning voice.can never save
> >
> > So my two cents worth of "Honey, no, no.......so sweetly said,
> > a child if he doesn't understand, and doesn't abide.Just wanted to comment here...
There are very few kids who are even 99% reliabel in responding
to verbal commands, even the ones who are supposedly
obedient. I always think it's a mother's job to be within hand
reaching distance of any small child near a road or danger.
Physical prevention is 100%. Verbal commands can never be.
The test case mentioned above is the most common fear tactic
used by the "obey on command" crowd to justify spanking,
ironically!
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 12:55:19 PM Central Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
wrote in regards to. When children are growing, they go
through so many changes. That I think its really neat to be
able to chat about what every one else did and what worked
and didn't.
And, no I don't believe in taking a hand to a child.
Linda L.
fetteroll@... writes:
>It hard when children are little, such as the one this mother
> Are you saying children need to learn to obey?
>
> Yes, and understand the commands of their mothers.
wrote in regards to. When children are growing, they go
through so many changes. That I think its really neat to be
able to chat about what every one else did and what worked
and didn't.
And, no I don't believe in taking a hand to a child.
Linda L.
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 1:07:47 PM Central Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
julie@... writes:
> There are very few kids who are even 99% reliabel in respondingthat this parent means NO.
> to verbal commands, even the ones who are supposedly
> obedient. I always think it's a mother's job to be within hand
> reaching distance of any small child near a road or danger.
>
> Physical prevention is 100%. Verbal commands can never be.
>
> Sorry, I disagree, there always comes a time, when a young child will
> try out his/or her boundries. When this happens, it happens fast.
> The road, was meant as only an example. I do agree, that a child
> needs to be constantly watched, and kept close to its parent.
> I am talking about a child learning the word "NO, and understanding
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
I haven't read all the responses yet but I'm wondering what exactly is going
on with your son right before he gets upset and hits you? That's what I
think you have to look at first before you can figure out exactly what to
do. Seeing that it's coming and heading it off before time is important. Not
sure if he's frustrated, angry or what. Pay close attention to what sets
him off. Sometimes that's very hard to do, especially when you are out and
not aware of what's going on for him every minute.
Mary B
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on with your son right before he gets upset and hits you? That's what I
think you have to look at first before you can figure out exactly what to
do. Seeing that it's coming and heading it off before time is important. Not
sure if he's frustrated, angry or what. Pay close attention to what sets
him off. Sometimes that's very hard to do, especially when you are out and
not aware of what's going on for him every minute.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
marji
At 12:42 1/26/03 -0500, encadia@... wrote:
here, If a kid grows to be used to hearing his mom talk to him sweetly and
with respect (but "Honey, no" is kind of weird, if you ask me) all the
time, and the day he or she runs out into the street and that mom shrieks
out in a most un-mom-like voice, "NO! GET BACK HERE!" that kid's gonna
stop right in his/her tracks! If only because that kid's gonna wonder
what's up with mom!
That's my two cents, for what they're worth (umm... 2 cents!).
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>I have seen various parenting methods as a former daycare provider.Here's my take on this: In the hypothetical situation you've thrown out
>
>Here's what I learned from experience, the day your child decides to run out
>into the road before you can catch him, you better take back the control
>now, so
>at a moments notice, he will understand your warning voice.
>
>So my two cents worth of "Honey, no, no.......so sweetly said, can never
>save a child if he doesn't understand, and doesn't abide.
>
>Linda L.
here, If a kid grows to be used to hearing his mom talk to him sweetly and
with respect (but "Honey, no" is kind of weird, if you ask me) all the
time, and the day he or she runs out into the street and that mom shrieks
out in a most un-mom-like voice, "NO! GET BACK HERE!" that kid's gonna
stop right in his/her tracks! If only because that kid's gonna wonder
what's up with mom!
That's my two cents, for what they're worth (umm... 2 cents!).
Marji
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
marji
P.S. Of course, if a kid grows used to hearing mom shriek all the time
about all sorts of stuff, one more shriek isn't gonna mean anything, if ya
get my drift.
Marji
At 11:42 1/26/03 -0800, you wrote:
about all sorts of stuff, one more shriek isn't gonna mean anything, if ya
get my drift.
Marji
At 11:42 1/26/03 -0800, you wrote:
> >So my two cents worth of "Honey, no, no.......so sweetly said, can never[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >save a child if he doesn't understand, and doesn't abide.
> >
> >Linda L.
>
>Here's my take on this: In the hypothetical situation you've thrown out
>here, If a kid grows to be used to hearing his mom talk to him sweetly and
>with respect (but "Honey, no" is kind of weird, if you ask me) all the
>time, and the day he or she runs out into the street and that mom shrieks
>out in a most un-mom-like voice, "NO! GET BACK HERE!" that kid's gonna
>stop right in his/her tracks! If only because that kid's gonna wonder
>what's up with mom!
>
>That's my two cents, for what they're worth (umm... 2 cents!).
>
>Marji
Mary Bianco
>From: encadia@...<<Are you saying children need to learn to obey?>>
>In a message dated 1/26/2003 12:55:19 PM Central Standard Time,
>fetteroll@... writes:
<< (snip)Yes, and understand the commands of their mothers.>>
Oooh, command??? I'm squirming in my seat already.
Mary B
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 2:08:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, encadia@...
writes:
not other adults that they feel they need to obey? I think many perverts
count on that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
writes:
> Are you saying children need to learn to obey?But if children learn to obey, how do you know they are obeying only you and
> >
> >Yes, and understand the commands of their mothers.
>
not other adults that they feel they need to obey? I think many perverts
count on that.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/26/03 2:13 PM, encadia@... at encadia@... wrote:
test boundaries.
open. A child with a parent joyfully accompanying him on his journey has no
need to bolt, does he? If there's no confinement, there's nothing to bolt
from.
boundary to be tested?
Joyce
> Sorry, I disagree, there always comes a time, when a young child willIf there are principles rather than boundaries, then there's no reason to
> try out his/or her boundries.
test boundaries.
> When this happens, it happens fast.An wild animal kept in a small cage will take off fast if the door is left
open. A child with a parent joyfully accompanying him on his journey has no
need to bolt, does he? If there's no confinement, there's nothing to bolt
from.
> I am talking about a child learning the word "NO, and understandingAnd how does a child learn that No means No without that then becoming a
> that this parent means NO.
boundary to be tested?
Joyce
myfunny4 <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "Q" <witchmama@t...> wrote:
Have you asked Satori why he wants to hit you? Does he have enough
language skills to explain why he wants to hit you?
None of my kids tried to hit me, although one tried to bite me once.
I pulled back from her lunging teeth, and acted shocked. (It wasn't
much of an act...I really was shocked! <g>) She was four years old
at the time. I asked her why she wanted to bite me, and she said
that she was mad at me. I told her that I get mad at her, too,
sometimes but I don't bite her. Then I asked her why she was mad at
me, she explained, and that seemed to diffuse her anger.
It seems rather simplistic, but maybe you could find out why he wants
to hit you. Perhaps he's overtired, or frustrated, or feels that HE
has no control.
I haven't read through the responses yet, so perhaps this has already
been suggested.
Debbie
> I'd really like some feedback on a situation with my son. Satori,who just
> turned three last Sunday, has acquired the lovely habit of hittingme and
> telling me to "Shut up".>Hi Hikaru,
> Hikaru
Have you asked Satori why he wants to hit you? Does he have enough
language skills to explain why he wants to hit you?
None of my kids tried to hit me, although one tried to bite me once.
I pulled back from her lunging teeth, and acted shocked. (It wasn't
much of an act...I really was shocked! <g>) She was four years old
at the time. I asked her why she wanted to bite me, and she said
that she was mad at me. I told her that I get mad at her, too,
sometimes but I don't bite her. Then I asked her why she was mad at
me, she explained, and that seemed to diffuse her anger.
It seems rather simplistic, but maybe you could find out why he wants
to hit you. Perhaps he's overtired, or frustrated, or feels that HE
has no control.
I haven't read through the responses yet, so perhaps this has already
been suggested.
Debbie
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/2003 2:33:28 PM Central Standard Time,
fetteroll@... writes:
fetteroll@... writes:
> on 1/26/03 2:13 PM, encadia@... at encadia@... wrote:[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> >Sorry, I disagree, there always comes a time, when a young child will
> >try out his/or her boundries.
>
> If there are principles rather than boundaries, then there's no reason to
> test boundaries.
>
> >When this happens, it happens fast.
>
> An wild animal kept in a small cage will take off fast if the door is left
> open. A child with a parent joyfully accompanying him on his journey has no
> need to bolt, does he? If there's no confinement, there's nothing to bolt
> from.
>
> >I am talking about a child learning the word "NO, and understanding
> >that this parent means NO.
>
> And how does a child learn that No means No without that then becoming a
> boundary to be tested?
>
> Joyce
>
> Joyce, what are you saying?
> That you never once had your child doing something they shouldn't be?
>
Fetteroll
on 1/26/03 7:18 PM, encadia@... at encadia@... wrote:
So have I.
Joyce
> Joyce, what are you saying?Yes, she's done things she shouldn't.
> That you never once had your child doing something they shouldn't be?
So have I.
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/26/03 5:19:46 PM, encadia@... writes:
<< > Joyce, what are you saying?
-=-Both Joyce and I (and maybe others, I don't remember) are trying calmly
and patiently to explain (and the other 1000+ members of the list) what our
real children are really doing with the freedom they have.
-=-If you tell your children what to do, and what they shouldn't do, and you
have a bunch of rules, they will probably break rules.
-=-If they do NOT have a bunch of rules, all they can do is violate
principles. That's a whole different deal.-=-
Within the past hour I spoke to Marty and his eight or so teen guests (I'm
not counting them). I said it was not good that before they left to go to
the park (they had just returned) that they had left foil candy wrappers
wadded up on the table and on the floor, and the empty bag there too. I said
it's happened before and they shouldn't leave their trash around. I'd picked
it up for them.
The one who bought the candy apologized because he brought the candy. I said
that was fine, they just needed to put wrappers in the trash.
I wasn't angry, they weren't shamed, it was just matter-of-fact information.
I earned the right to my speech because I cleaned up their mess.
They violated the principle of being considerate. They didn't break a rule.
They'll be more careful next time, for a real reason. Not because they're
afraid of me or because I said NO. Because I've cleaned up after them and
they've cleaned up after me and we LIKE each other.
They've listened to me all their lives, because I've listened to them all
their lives.
It might not be as easy to start with older kids, but it's better to start
late than never, I think.
It's hard to describe the difference between having rules that kids can break
and creating a safe environment for kids--babies or toddlers or children or
teens--in which they can have freedom of movement and choice. But there's a
difference, and the rules which operate within one don't apply to another.
It takes some time to change parameters and expectations, but lots of
families have done it.
So when someone says "ALL children will test boundaries," it might be true in
a rule-bound (bound and boundaries being related) situation, like day care,
but it's not true where principles are in place instead of rules and every
decision is new and separate.
If someone can explain this more clearly, please help!
Sandra
<< > Joyce, what are you saying?
> That you never once had your child doing something they shouldn't be? >>In a side conversation with someone on this thread, I wrote this:
-=-Both Joyce and I (and maybe others, I don't remember) are trying calmly
and patiently to explain (and the other 1000+ members of the list) what our
real children are really doing with the freedom they have.
-=-If you tell your children what to do, and what they shouldn't do, and you
have a bunch of rules, they will probably break rules.
-=-If they do NOT have a bunch of rules, all they can do is violate
principles. That's a whole different deal.-=-
Within the past hour I spoke to Marty and his eight or so teen guests (I'm
not counting them). I said it was not good that before they left to go to
the park (they had just returned) that they had left foil candy wrappers
wadded up on the table and on the floor, and the empty bag there too. I said
it's happened before and they shouldn't leave their trash around. I'd picked
it up for them.
The one who bought the candy apologized because he brought the candy. I said
that was fine, they just needed to put wrappers in the trash.
I wasn't angry, they weren't shamed, it was just matter-of-fact information.
I earned the right to my speech because I cleaned up their mess.
They violated the principle of being considerate. They didn't break a rule.
They'll be more careful next time, for a real reason. Not because they're
afraid of me or because I said NO. Because I've cleaned up after them and
they've cleaned up after me and we LIKE each other.
They've listened to me all their lives, because I've listened to them all
their lives.
It might not be as easy to start with older kids, but it's better to start
late than never, I think.
It's hard to describe the difference between having rules that kids can break
and creating a safe environment for kids--babies or toddlers or children or
teens--in which they can have freedom of movement and choice. But there's a
difference, and the rules which operate within one don't apply to another.
It takes some time to change parameters and expectations, but lots of
families have done it.
So when someone says "ALL children will test boundaries," it might be true in
a rule-bound (bound and boundaries being related) situation, like day care,
but it's not true where principles are in place instead of rules and every
decision is new and separate.
If someone can explain this more clearly, please help!
Sandra
Heidi <[email protected]>
> -=- hitting me andwell, maybe he picked it up on TV or something. A cartoon character
> telling me to "Shut up". -=-
>
> Who has taught him the phrase "shut up"?
telling another cartoon to shut up could definitely teach the kid
that phrase.
Heidi
Andrea
At 01:50 AM 1/27/03 +0000, Joyce wrote:
oblivious to the danger, that is why you must be always within grabbing
distance if you want them to have a joyful journey. My older two boys would
respond to a yelp from mom, but my youngest was/is reckless.
I agree with the others who said to find out why your son is hitting. I
won't say that I always respond as well as I think I should when my boys
hit me. I think my best response is an "Ouch, that hurt," and then an
example of what our hands are for, a hug that comforts (and restrains, if
necessary, to keep him from hitting again.)
I am guessing that Shut Up is not something you say to your son. I know
that some people like to look reprovingly at the mother while saying or
thinking, "Well, I wonder where he learned that?!" I am not one of those
:-) I have a friend who says shut up to her dog, and my three-year-old is
quick to pick up on any new and delightful phrase he hears, to try it out
and see what reaction he will get. Little reaction (i.e. me saying calmly
"I don't like when you say that") means he will stop saying it eventually.
Of course, while I am waiting for him to get tired of it he may say it to
everyone he meets.
Donna Andrea
> > An wild animal kept in a small cage will take off fast if the door is leftMy experience of this is that a young child will not "bolt" but will be
> > open. A child with a parent joyfully accompanying him on his journey has no
> > need to bolt, does he? If there's no confinement, there's nothing to bolt
> > from.
oblivious to the danger, that is why you must be always within grabbing
distance if you want them to have a joyful journey. My older two boys would
respond to a yelp from mom, but my youngest was/is reckless.
I agree with the others who said to find out why your son is hitting. I
won't say that I always respond as well as I think I should when my boys
hit me. I think my best response is an "Ouch, that hurt," and then an
example of what our hands are for, a hug that comforts (and restrains, if
necessary, to keep him from hitting again.)
I am guessing that Shut Up is not something you say to your son. I know
that some people like to look reprovingly at the mother while saying or
thinking, "Well, I wonder where he learned that?!" I am not one of those
:-) I have a friend who says shut up to her dog, and my three-year-old is
quick to pick up on any new and delightful phrase he hears, to try it out
and see what reaction he will get. Little reaction (i.e. me saying calmly
"I don't like when you say that") means he will stop saying it eventually.
Of course, while I am waiting for him to get tired of it he may say it to
everyone he meets.
Donna Andrea
Tia Leschke
>I'm finding this now, as I put more and more of these ideas into practice
> It might not be as easy to start with older kids, but it's better to start
> late than never, I think.
with my 15 year old. We had really drifted apart when he hit the early
teens. I do think that the little ways I'm finding to help him out and show
I care is making a difference. I feel a lot closer to him now (and we
weren't *that* far apart). His behavior has never been bad, so it's not a
case of turning his behavior around or anything. At any rate, I really like
it.
Tia
Shyrley
"Heidi " wrote:
Several people have got bent out of shape cos my kids use it. It's not super polite in the UK but people wouldn't bat an eyelid about it.
Shyrley
> > -=- hitting me andIs the phrase 'shut-up' ultra rude in America?
> > telling me to "Shut up". -=-
> >
> > Who has taught him the phrase "shut up"?
>
> well, maybe he picked it up on TV or something. A cartoon character
> telling another cartoon to shut up could definitely teach the kid
> that phrase.
>
> Heidi
>
Several people have got bent out of shape cos my kids use it. It's not super polite in the UK but people wouldn't bat an eyelid about it.
Shyrley
Fetteroll
on 1/27/03 11:46 AM, Shyrley at shyrley.williams@... wrote:
places, yes, it's ultra rude.
Joyce
> Is the phrase 'shut-up' ultra rude in America?Might depend on the community and on the context and tone but in some
places, yes, it's ultra rude.
Joyce
Have a Nice Day!
Yeah, like shagging???
LOLOL
I didn't know what on earth that meant until Austin Powers came out with "The spy who shagged me". And I bet tahts a mild one.
LOL
Kristen
LOLOL
I didn't know what on earth that meant until Austin Powers came out with "The spy who shagged me". And I bet tahts a mild one.
LOL
Kristen
----- Original Message -----
From: Shyrley
To: [email protected]
Sent: Monday, January 27, 2003 12:25 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: aaargh, now the kid is hitting me!
Fetteroll wrote:
> on 1/27/03 11:46 AM, Shyrley at shyrley.williams@... wrote:
>
> > Is the phrase 'shut-up' ultra rude in America?
>
> Might depend on the community and on the context and tone but in some
> places, yes, it's ultra rude.
>
> Joyce
>
I seem to spend most of my time in the US inadvertantly offending people. Sigh.
Mind you, there's whole bunches of naughty words you lot dunt know....
Shyrley
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Shyrley
Fetteroll wrote:
Mind you, there's whole bunches of naughty words you lot dunt know....
Shyrley
> on 1/27/03 11:46 AM, Shyrley at shyrley.williams@... wrote:I seem to spend most of my time in the US inadvertantly offending people. Sigh.
>
> > Is the phrase 'shut-up' ultra rude in America?
>
> Might depend on the community and on the context and tone but in some
> places, yes, it's ultra rude.
>
> Joyce
>
Mind you, there's whole bunches of naughty words you lot dunt know....
Shyrley
Shyrley
"Have a Nice Day!" wrote:
We got lots of words for shagging - getting your leg over, nookie, bit of the other. And 'on the job' which Americans say all innocently about someone working but it has me in stitches every time :-)
Shyrley
> Yeah, like shagging???It's pretty every day.
> LOLOL
>
> I didn't know what on earth that meant until Austin Powers came out with "The spy who shagged me". And I bet tahts a mild one.
>
> LOL
>
> Kristen
We got lots of words for shagging - getting your leg over, nookie, bit of the other. And 'on the job' which Americans say all innocently about someone working but it has me in stitches every time :-)
Shyrley