Need some help with relationships (long)
Jim Selvage
I am needing some help here sorting some things out, and hoping all you wise
ladies can help. I would have said I need help with "socialization" issues
but I hate that word.
My daughter is 13. She is very outgoing socially, but does not seemed to be
well liked. I have tried to give her some hints about things that she does
which might cause people not to like her, but overall I find this really
difficult. I like her! She loves people and doing things. She is a very
crafty person. She is great at thinking through things and coming up with
ways to do things that others might not see. She loves to help people and
be involved in whatever someone is doing. She can tend to be too bossy.
She doesn't do well sitting in a chair and listening to a teacher without
something else to do (and for this reason gets on the nerves of sunday
school teachers, though one has figured it out and allows her to doodle,
whereas the other hasn't figured it out and rebukes her for getting out of
her chair, talking, etc.)
I am mainly concerned today because yesterday our homeschooling group had
the final pick for parts in the play we will be doing at the
homeschoolconvention. She had her heart set on a certain part and did not
get it. She was extremely upset. She told me that it wasn't fair because
the director had not even really given her a chance to try for the part
(like she had said she would). The person who got the part is a sweet,
compliant child. I am not complaining that she did not get the part (they
did give her a part, just not a major one), but I am trying to figure out
why this always seems to happen to her. I do think that it has something to
do with the fact that they don't like her (which is why I am putting this
story in the message), but I don't know how to help her with this issue. I
could be completely wrong. But if I am wrong about this incident, I am not
wrong about the general feeling.
Help!
many blessings,
erin
ladies can help. I would have said I need help with "socialization" issues
but I hate that word.
My daughter is 13. She is very outgoing socially, but does not seemed to be
well liked. I have tried to give her some hints about things that she does
which might cause people not to like her, but overall I find this really
difficult. I like her! She loves people and doing things. She is a very
crafty person. She is great at thinking through things and coming up with
ways to do things that others might not see. She loves to help people and
be involved in whatever someone is doing. She can tend to be too bossy.
She doesn't do well sitting in a chair and listening to a teacher without
something else to do (and for this reason gets on the nerves of sunday
school teachers, though one has figured it out and allows her to doodle,
whereas the other hasn't figured it out and rebukes her for getting out of
her chair, talking, etc.)
I am mainly concerned today because yesterday our homeschooling group had
the final pick for parts in the play we will be doing at the
homeschoolconvention. She had her heart set on a certain part and did not
get it. She was extremely upset. She told me that it wasn't fair because
the director had not even really given her a chance to try for the part
(like she had said she would). The person who got the part is a sweet,
compliant child. I am not complaining that she did not get the part (they
did give her a part, just not a major one), but I am trying to figure out
why this always seems to happen to her. I do think that it has something to
do with the fact that they don't like her (which is why I am putting this
story in the message), but I don't know how to help her with this issue. I
could be completely wrong. But if I am wrong about this incident, I am not
wrong about the general feeling.
Help!
many blessings,
erin
bluelotus
<< My daughter is 13. She is very outgoing socially, but does not seemed to be
well liked. I have tried to give her some hints about things that she does
which might cause people not to like her, but overall I find this really
difficult. I like her! She loves people and doing things. She is a very
crafty person. She is great at thinking through things and coming up with
ways to do things that others might not see. She loves to help people and
be involved in whatever someone is doing. She can tend to be too bossy.>>
I won't say much, because I don't want to *disempower* anyone with my *expert* advice, as Joyce put it, but I just feel compelled to say something because I sincerely feel for your girl.
If you really thik there is a problem with her way of relating to others (being bossy, etc.), homeopathy can help. With both the way she relates with others and how she perceives others treating her (which is basically one and the same).
I suspect her disappointment from not getting the part in the play comes from knowing that "there's something more to it," if you know what I mean, because she wasn't given a chance (were the other girls given a chance?). In any case, homeopathic treatment can help deal with those confusing emotions (one may argue that being *bossy* is just a personality trait, but to me it shows an imbalance which is actually preventing her from relating in a more relaxed manner).
Adolescence (like menopause) is a time when a lot of stuff shows up for a woman and it's a transitional period that can be hard to deal with for most of us. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it not from an *expert* point of view, but out of compassion for a young woman. I am sure you'll get plenty of good advice from people with older kids here... ;-)
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
well liked. I have tried to give her some hints about things that she does
which might cause people not to like her, but overall I find this really
difficult. I like her! She loves people and doing things. She is a very
crafty person. She is great at thinking through things and coming up with
ways to do things that others might not see. She loves to help people and
be involved in whatever someone is doing. She can tend to be too bossy.>>
I won't say much, because I don't want to *disempower* anyone with my *expert* advice, as Joyce put it, but I just feel compelled to say something because I sincerely feel for your girl.
If you really thik there is a problem with her way of relating to others (being bossy, etc.), homeopathy can help. With both the way she relates with others and how she perceives others treating her (which is basically one and the same).
I suspect her disappointment from not getting the part in the play comes from knowing that "there's something more to it," if you know what I mean, because she wasn't given a chance (were the other girls given a chance?). In any case, homeopathic treatment can help deal with those confusing emotions (one may argue that being *bossy* is just a personality trait, but to me it shows an imbalance which is actually preventing her from relating in a more relaxed manner).
Adolescence (like menopause) is a time when a lot of stuff shows up for a woman and it's a transitional period that can be hard to deal with for most of us. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it not from an *expert* point of view, but out of compassion for a young woman. I am sure you'll get plenty of good advice from people with older kids here... ;-)
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
Jim Selvage
Yol,
I will try to do some more reading about homeopathy. I suspect I live in an
area where they have never heard of it, so I don't think I could go to
anyone for help (probably can't afford it anyway). Thanks.
What happened with the part in the play, is that they didn't try anyone out.
My daughter had done the part the first two practices (without any prior
knowledge of the musical, etc), and then the other child (a boy) was asked
to do the part for the next two. The difference here is that the boy had
been in the production last year, with a different part, but he knew the how
the part was played. The director has said she would have try-outs
yesterday and my daughter had practiced the part a lot, using different
voice intonations etc. Then, without having them try out, they just walked
up and told her that the boy had the part, and she would have a different
part. So she didn't even get a chance to show them how she could do with it
really. But like I said, I really feel like how well she could do that part
didn't really matter.
blessings,
erin
I will try to do some more reading about homeopathy. I suspect I live in an
area where they have never heard of it, so I don't think I could go to
anyone for help (probably can't afford it anyway). Thanks.
What happened with the part in the play, is that they didn't try anyone out.
My daughter had done the part the first two practices (without any prior
knowledge of the musical, etc), and then the other child (a boy) was asked
to do the part for the next two. The difference here is that the boy had
been in the production last year, with a different part, but he knew the how
the part was played. The director has said she would have try-outs
yesterday and my daughter had practiced the part a lot, using different
voice intonations etc. Then, without having them try out, they just walked
up and told her that the boy had the part, and she would have a different
part. So she didn't even get a chance to show them how she could do with it
really. But like I said, I really feel like how well she could do that part
didn't really matter.
blessings,
erin
----- Original Message -----
From: "bluelotus" <bluelotus@...>
To: "Unschooling.com" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 1:52 PM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Need some help with relationships (long)
> << My daughter is 13. She is very outgoing socially, but does not seemed
to be
> well liked. I have tried to give her some hints about things that she
does
> which might cause people not to like her, but overall I find this really
> difficult. I like her! She loves people and doing things. She is a very
> crafty person. She is great at thinking through things and coming up with
> ways to do things that others might not see. She loves to help people and
> be involved in whatever someone is doing. She can tend to be too bossy.>>
>
> I won't say much, because I don't want to *disempower* anyone with my
*expert* advice, as Joyce put it, but I just feel compelled to say something
because I sincerely feel for your girl.
> If you really thik there is a problem with her way of relating to others
(being bossy, etc.), homeopathy can help. With both the way she relates with
others and how she perceives others treating her (which is basically one and
the same).
>
> I suspect her disappointment from not getting the part in the play comes
from knowing that "there's something more to it," if you know what I mean,
because she wasn't given a chance (were the other girls given a chance?). In
any case, homeopathic treatment can help deal with those confusing emotions
(one may argue that being *bossy* is just a personality trait, but to me it
shows an imbalance which is actually preventing her from relating in a more
relaxed manner).
>
> Adolescence (like menopause) is a time when a lot of stuff shows up for a
woman and it's a transitional period that can be hard to deal with for most
of us. Anyway, I just thought I'd mention it not from an *expert* point of
view, but out of compassion for a young woman. I am sure you'll get plenty
of good advice from people with older kids here... ;-)
>
> Yol
>
> --
>
> Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
> Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
> http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
>
> Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
> Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
> http://www.dyc-nc.org
>
> **********************************
> When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
> letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
> -- Tao Te Ching
> **********************************
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
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>
>
[email protected]
Erin,
I dont know if I really have any advice ( esp unschooling related) but, I
can empathize with you We have had similar experiences in my family( I wont
go into them specifically for the sake of time and space).
My daughter is also 13, and gosh, it is such an emotional age.
EVERYTHING is a big deal. A lot of the emotional turmoil that Anna
experienced, I blamed on school ( and probably rightly so) But I can see
that school is not all to blame.. Just like in your situation, I think its
just thier age in general, and "life" in general that is difficult for
changing minds and bodies to deal with. Unfortunately, even unschooling
can't shelter our children from plain old politics in this world. The only
alternative would be to avoid society at large, and I dont think that is a
good idea. I know she feels like lifes not fair, and that she didnt get a
chance to prove herself. I hate that for her. I suppose the only
consolation is that there is always "next time" IF she isnt too afraid of
rejection again. Did she get a different part in the play? Perhaps you can
encourage her to just show her talent by doing that part as well as she
possibly can. Blah, I know, thats little consolation too.. "there are no
small parts" seems like a bunch of BS when you have a small part., But those
small parts can be bridges to bigger parts if they are played right and with
enthusiasm and effort.
I think mostly, with kids this age, its a matter of just letting her get
her feelings out and listening to her woes. Usually, after Anna has her
emotional bouts of frustration, depression, anxiety, etc.. she's fine and
back to "normal" soon. I remember those roller coaster days when I was her
age.. Oh, bless my poor Momma.. lol..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I dont know if I really have any advice ( esp unschooling related) but, I
can empathize with you We have had similar experiences in my family( I wont
go into them specifically for the sake of time and space).
My daughter is also 13, and gosh, it is such an emotional age.
EVERYTHING is a big deal. A lot of the emotional turmoil that Anna
experienced, I blamed on school ( and probably rightly so) But I can see
that school is not all to blame.. Just like in your situation, I think its
just thier age in general, and "life" in general that is difficult for
changing minds and bodies to deal with. Unfortunately, even unschooling
can't shelter our children from plain old politics in this world. The only
alternative would be to avoid society at large, and I dont think that is a
good idea. I know she feels like lifes not fair, and that she didnt get a
chance to prove herself. I hate that for her. I suppose the only
consolation is that there is always "next time" IF she isnt too afraid of
rejection again. Did she get a different part in the play? Perhaps you can
encourage her to just show her talent by doing that part as well as she
possibly can. Blah, I know, thats little consolation too.. "there are no
small parts" seems like a bunch of BS when you have a small part., But those
small parts can be bridges to bigger parts if they are played right and with
enthusiasm and effort.
I think mostly, with kids this age, its a matter of just letting her get
her feelings out and listening to her woes. Usually, after Anna has her
emotional bouts of frustration, depression, anxiety, etc.. she's fine and
back to "normal" soon. I remember those roller coaster days when I was her
age.. Oh, bless my poor Momma.. lol..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
Teresa,
"Did she get a different part in the play? Perhaps you can encourage her to
just show her talent by doing that part as well as she possibly can.
Blah, I know, thats little consolation too.. "there are no small parts"
seems like a bunch of BS when you have a small part., But those
small parts can be bridges to bigger parts if they are played right and with
enthusiasm and effort."
Yes, she did get a different part in the play, so we have had the discussion
about being the best she absolutely can at that part. She says she will,
and says she will learn the other part too, just in case the boy gets sick
at the last minute, lol. Today she is handling it well, but still
mentioning it isn't fair. We talked about how she can show her maturity by
going in there at the next practice and doing her best and not letting it
bug her,etc.
Yes, I guess 13 for anyone can be emotional. I know she cannot be protected
from the world, but this is just one isolated incident in a whole stream of
them. Most of the others could be explained away by the fact that we are
homeschoolers (only homeschoolers in a very small community which thinks
that their school is perfect and cannot see why I wouldn't send my children
there. Even the girls her age who are in our church don't spend much time
with her and are purposely mean to her because she is different, i.e.
homeschooled.) I think that it should at least be different when immersed
in a group of homeschoolers, and I think that is what has dissapointed me
about the whole thing. So in my disspointment I am looking at what we can
do to change. Maybe we can't do anything, but I gotta hope!
many blessings,
erin
"Did she get a different part in the play? Perhaps you can encourage her to
just show her talent by doing that part as well as she possibly can.
Blah, I know, thats little consolation too.. "there are no small parts"
seems like a bunch of BS when you have a small part., But those
small parts can be bridges to bigger parts if they are played right and with
enthusiasm and effort."
Yes, she did get a different part in the play, so we have had the discussion
about being the best she absolutely can at that part. She says she will,
and says she will learn the other part too, just in case the boy gets sick
at the last minute, lol. Today she is handling it well, but still
mentioning it isn't fair. We talked about how she can show her maturity by
going in there at the next practice and doing her best and not letting it
bug her,etc.
Yes, I guess 13 for anyone can be emotional. I know she cannot be protected
from the world, but this is just one isolated incident in a whole stream of
them. Most of the others could be explained away by the fact that we are
homeschoolers (only homeschoolers in a very small community which thinks
that their school is perfect and cannot see why I wouldn't send my children
there. Even the girls her age who are in our church don't spend much time
with her and are purposely mean to her because she is different, i.e.
homeschooled.) I think that it should at least be different when immersed
in a group of homeschoolers, and I think that is what has dissapointed me
about the whole thing. So in my disspointment I am looking at what we can
do to change. Maybe we can't do anything, but I gotta hope!
many blessings,
erin
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/16/03 4:17:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jselvage@... writes:
that the 'social stuff" will be easier for Anna ( and my other kids too)
among homeschoolers than it was in public school. Actually, my 11 yo son
is the one that has had the most trouble in social situatuions.. and I have
the same hope, that he does better with homeschoolers, in more relaxed and
"fun" situations than at public school. And, I also know what you mean by
trying to find out what is "wrong".. or the reason that your daughter is
having trouble fitting it.. I feel the same way about Ethan... I think.. what
can I do to help him feel more comfortable.. to help him relate to other
children better.. We are new to homeschooling and in the process of trying
to meet other hs families, joining clubs, signing up for activities, field
trips, whatever we can find to meet new folks.. Ethan is still very resistant
to getting involved, and I have not insisted nor "pushed" him to join in..
Really, he would be happy to stay at home, all alone, playing video games..
But, once I convince him to get out and join in with others, he does have a
good time and he does not regret it. I just hope in time he becomes more
comfortable and seeks out these opportunities without me having to convince
him to join in. I think he is just so scarred and hurt by public school, he
is gun shy.. It will just take time ( again.. I HOPE!)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jselvage@... writes:
> I think that it should at least be different when immersedI would tend to think so too. I know that I am hoping ( fingers crossed)
> in a group of homeschoolers, and I think that is what has dissapointed me
> about the whole thing. So in my disspointment I am looking at what we can
> do to change. Maybe we can't do anything, but I gotta hope!
>
that the 'social stuff" will be easier for Anna ( and my other kids too)
among homeschoolers than it was in public school. Actually, my 11 yo son
is the one that has had the most trouble in social situatuions.. and I have
the same hope, that he does better with homeschoolers, in more relaxed and
"fun" situations than at public school. And, I also know what you mean by
trying to find out what is "wrong".. or the reason that your daughter is
having trouble fitting it.. I feel the same way about Ethan... I think.. what
can I do to help him feel more comfortable.. to help him relate to other
children better.. We are new to homeschooling and in the process of trying
to meet other hs families, joining clubs, signing up for activities, field
trips, whatever we can find to meet new folks.. Ethan is still very resistant
to getting involved, and I have not insisted nor "pushed" him to join in..
Really, he would be happy to stay at home, all alone, playing video games..
But, once I convince him to get out and join in with others, he does have a
good time and he does not regret it. I just hope in time he becomes more
comfortable and seeks out these opportunities without me having to convince
him to join in. I think he is just so scarred and hurt by public school, he
is gun shy.. It will just take time ( again.. I HOPE!)
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
Teresa,
"I would tend to think so too. I know that I am hoping ( fingers crossed)
that the 'social stuff" will be easier for Anna ( and my other kids too)
among homeschoolers than it was in public school. Actually, my 11 yo son
and "fun" situations than at public school."
I understand Ethan's position too. I have a son like that. He mostly
prefers not to go to social activities and prefers to spend most of his time
on video games too (and reading). I have in the past pushed him to do
social things. He usually is happy to have done them, but does not carry
that on to the next activity. He just doesn't like new situations, and that
is the way it is, lol. He, would have never tried out for the musical in
the first place, lol. I offered, but he said no way! But you know what, he
seems to do better in social situations than my daughter. He tends to sit
back and observe mostly, but when he begins to take part he is accepted. I
don't really get it.
I sure hope you do find some like minded families that will befriend your
children. We have the added problem that we are unschooling, and there are
no other unschoolers in the immediate area that I know of. But of course,
even if there are, they are probably not admitting it, lol. So, I get
together with homeschoolers but don't really talk about schooling. I used
to always be the one asking everyone what curriculum they used though, and
since I have tried most of them, I do understand what they are talking
about, lol. With the laws in our state, I am sure if my friends new I was
unschooling they would be working to convince me that I shouldn't be. They
are all very meticulously doing their curriculums and have always thought I
was off my rocker when I refused to give my children grades, etc. They are
all really nice people though : - ) !
many blessings,
erin
"I would tend to think so too. I know that I am hoping ( fingers crossed)
that the 'social stuff" will be easier for Anna ( and my other kids too)
among homeschoolers than it was in public school. Actually, my 11 yo son
> is the one that has had the most trouble in social situatuions.. and Ihave the same hope, that he does better with homeschoolers, in more relaxed
and "fun" situations than at public school."
I understand Ethan's position too. I have a son like that. He mostly
prefers not to go to social activities and prefers to spend most of his time
on video games too (and reading). I have in the past pushed him to do
social things. He usually is happy to have done them, but does not carry
that on to the next activity. He just doesn't like new situations, and that
is the way it is, lol. He, would have never tried out for the musical in
the first place, lol. I offered, but he said no way! But you know what, he
seems to do better in social situations than my daughter. He tends to sit
back and observe mostly, but when he begins to take part he is accepted. I
don't really get it.
I sure hope you do find some like minded families that will befriend your
children. We have the added problem that we are unschooling, and there are
no other unschoolers in the immediate area that I know of. But of course,
even if there are, they are probably not admitting it, lol. So, I get
together with homeschoolers but don't really talk about schooling. I used
to always be the one asking everyone what curriculum they used though, and
since I have tried most of them, I do understand what they are talking
about, lol. With the laws in our state, I am sure if my friends new I was
unschooling they would be working to convince me that I shouldn't be. They
are all very meticulously doing their curriculums and have always thought I
was off my rocker when I refused to give my children grades, etc. They are
all really nice people though : - ) !
many blessings,
erin
Mary Bianco
>From: bluelotus <bluelotus@...><<I won't say much, because I don't want to *disempower* anyone with my
*expert* advice, as Joyce put it, but I just feel compelled to say something
because I sincerely feel for your girl.
If you really thik there is a problem with her way of relating to others
(being bossy, etc.), homeopathy can help>>
First of all I think maybe there is a tone to your post that isn't quite
necessary. Second of all, does homeopathy make perfect people??? That's the
impression I'm getting. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like any
character flaw or negative personality one has, can be made all better with
little pills?
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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[email protected]
In a message dated 1/16/03 10:04:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
mummyone24@... writes:
list and a few other groups that have some homepaths on them.. and even with
limited exposure to homeopathy, I know its not all about little pills.. I
think the practice encompasses MUCH MUCH more than that.. That would be like
saying the unschooling is not doing a curriculum.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems like anyGosh, I know very little about homeopathy, mostly what Ive picked up on this
> character flaw or negative personality one has, can be made all better with
>
> little pills?
>
list and a few other groups that have some homepaths on them.. and even with
limited exposure to homeopathy, I know its not all about little pills.. I
think the practice encompasses MUCH MUCH more than that.. That would be like
saying the unschooling is not doing a curriculum.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Mary Bianco
Just wondering if the whole no one likes me stuff is coming from your
daughter or are you actually seeing that this is the case?
Reason I ask is because I always saw my oldest as intelligent and attractive
and nice as a young adolescent. Now at 17, she tells me she was a real geek
and a nerd and no one liked her. She's talking about the ages between 11-14.
I still have a hard time believing it was all that bad but she swears for
her it was awful. I mean I believe her when she says how bad it hurt, what I
don't believe is that she was really some freak. I think maybe she just
tried way too hard to be well liked and she was easy pickings for when the
"popular girls" neede someone to make fun of.
I just talked until I was blue in the face about what was really important
and to wait a few years and see where all the cattiness and nastiness got
the girls. Tara was always the one to stick up for the underdogs and talk to
the kids everyone made fun of. Now of course she sees what I was talking
about. She's a very well liked, understanding and trustworthy friend. Her
friends at school run the whole gammut of groups that the kids put
themselves in.
Not sure if you really see something your daughter is doing to push people
away or it's just her age and the kids she's around. If it's the latter of
the two, it will all change shortly.
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
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daughter or are you actually seeing that this is the case?
Reason I ask is because I always saw my oldest as intelligent and attractive
and nice as a young adolescent. Now at 17, she tells me she was a real geek
and a nerd and no one liked her. She's talking about the ages between 11-14.
I still have a hard time believing it was all that bad but she swears for
her it was awful. I mean I believe her when she says how bad it hurt, what I
don't believe is that she was really some freak. I think maybe she just
tried way too hard to be well liked and she was easy pickings for when the
"popular girls" neede someone to make fun of.
I just talked until I was blue in the face about what was really important
and to wait a few years and see where all the cattiness and nastiness got
the girls. Tara was always the one to stick up for the underdogs and talk to
the kids everyone made fun of. Now of course she sees what I was talking
about. She's a very well liked, understanding and trustworthy friend. Her
friends at school run the whole gammut of groups that the kids put
themselves in.
Not sure if you really see something your daughter is doing to push people
away or it's just her age and the kids she's around. If it's the latter of
the two, it will all change shortly.
Mary B
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In a message dated 1/16/03 8:08:49 PM, grlynbl@... writes:
<< Gosh, I know very little about homeopathy, mostly what Ive picked up on
this
list and a few other groups that have some homepaths on them.. and even with
limited exposure to homeopathy, I know its not all about little pills.. I
think the practice encompasses MUCH MUCH more than that.. That would be like
saying the unschooling is not doing a curriculum. >>
Possibly so, but on an unschooling list at least saying unschooling is not
doing a curriculum is on topic.
Sandra
<< Gosh, I know very little about homeopathy, mostly what Ive picked up on
this
list and a few other groups that have some homepaths on them.. and even with
limited exposure to homeopathy, I know its not all about little pills.. I
think the practice encompasses MUCH MUCH more than that.. That would be like
saying the unschooling is not doing a curriculum. >>
Possibly so, but on an unschooling list at least saying unschooling is not
doing a curriculum is on topic.
Sandra
Jim Selvage
Mary,
I think it is both. I see her do things (such as being bossy, always trying
to be right) and I see people's reaction to her. Up until this year, she
was completely unaware of it. Just last week, one girl from our church,
told her two things. She said she didn't use to like her because she was
not "popular" and she didn't want to be seen with unpopular people. (And
she said this was because of the homeschooling.) She also said that they
didn't "use" to like her because she was annoying. My daughter relayed this
information to me, but it didn't really seem to bother her. She had been at
the other girl's house that day, and she was just glad to go and spend some
time with her. (This doesn't happen very often though, and there is a girl
in the same family who is my daughter's age that will talk to her there, but
if she sees her in public she ignores her mostly.
She does have one good friend, who never treats her differently and they
enjoy each other. The friend is two years older than she is, which limits
some of the things they do together, and she is in school, but when they can
get together they are happy. So, she is not completely without friends.
thanks for helping me figure this out,
erin
I think it is both. I see her do things (such as being bossy, always trying
to be right) and I see people's reaction to her. Up until this year, she
was completely unaware of it. Just last week, one girl from our church,
told her two things. She said she didn't use to like her because she was
not "popular" and she didn't want to be seen with unpopular people. (And
she said this was because of the homeschooling.) She also said that they
didn't "use" to like her because she was annoying. My daughter relayed this
information to me, but it didn't really seem to bother her. She had been at
the other girl's house that day, and she was just glad to go and spend some
time with her. (This doesn't happen very often though, and there is a girl
in the same family who is my daughter's age that will talk to her there, but
if she sees her in public she ignores her mostly.
She does have one good friend, who never treats her differently and they
enjoy each other. The friend is two years older than she is, which limits
some of the things they do together, and she is in school, but when they can
get together they are happy. So, she is not completely without friends.
thanks for helping me figure this out,
erin
>
> Just wondering if the whole no one likes me stuff is coming from your
> daughter or are you actually seeing that this is the case?
Suzanne Ackerson
Erin,
I too struggle with a lot of the types of things you mentioned. I tend to agree with someone on the list who said that things would probably improve with time. I watched my oldest, a boy, struggle with feeling he was not accepted in his homeschool group as a teen. He continued to participate anyway and one of the teens told him he was the kindest person in the whole group. Sometimes it just takes one good friend. When things are going well for our kids we hurt just as much as they do. Girls seem to mature socially before boys, so it might not be long till your daughter is finding herself feeling better about her social interactions. For my oldest, he really came into his own right after he turned 17 and began college. The like mindedness of his fellow music majors gave him a social belongingness.
In the meantime I wonder if it would be possible for you and your daughter to start your own independant drama group. It could be for just one play or more. It could include both schoolers and non-schoolers. Many years ago I got 6 children together, including my oldest, and they put on the play "A Mad Tea Party." I found the script and practiced with the kids twice a week for about a month. I had zero drama experience. After each practice they swam in our pool and had snacks. (I'm sure the pool was a big draw, but those kids put on a darned good performance). We taped it and the local newspaper took their picture. If you could find a play that had several big parts then your daughter could shine with the rest of them. Also, if you have a community drama group where she could act with adults, that might give her some positive feedback and a great opportunity.
Best of everything to you,
Suzanne
I too struggle with a lot of the types of things you mentioned. I tend to agree with someone on the list who said that things would probably improve with time. I watched my oldest, a boy, struggle with feeling he was not accepted in his homeschool group as a teen. He continued to participate anyway and one of the teens told him he was the kindest person in the whole group. Sometimes it just takes one good friend. When things are going well for our kids we hurt just as much as they do. Girls seem to mature socially before boys, so it might not be long till your daughter is finding herself feeling better about her social interactions. For my oldest, he really came into his own right after he turned 17 and began college. The like mindedness of his fellow music majors gave him a social belongingness.
In the meantime I wonder if it would be possible for you and your daughter to start your own independant drama group. It could be for just one play or more. It could include both schoolers and non-schoolers. Many years ago I got 6 children together, including my oldest, and they put on the play "A Mad Tea Party." I found the script and practiced with the kids twice a week for about a month. I had zero drama experience. After each practice they swam in our pool and had snacks. (I'm sure the pool was a big draw, but those kids put on a darned good performance). We taped it and the local newspaper took their picture. If you could find a play that had several big parts then your daughter could shine with the rest of them. Also, if you have a community drama group where she could act with adults, that might give her some positive feedback and a great opportunity.
Best of everything to you,
Suzanne
----- Original Message -----
From: Jim Selvage
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 4:08 PM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Need some help with relationships (long)
Teresa,
"I would tend to think so too. I know that I am hoping ( fingers crossed)
that the 'social stuff" will be easier for Anna ( and my other kids too)
among homeschoolers than it was in public school. Actually, my 11 yo son
> is the one that has had the most trouble in social situatuions.. and I
have the same hope, that he does better with homeschoolers, in more relaxed
and "fun" situations than at public school."
I understand Ethan's position too. I have a son like that. He mostly
prefers not to go to social activities and prefers to spend most of his time
on video games too (and reading). I have in the past pushed him to do
social things. He usually is happy to have done them, but does not carry
that on to the next activity. He just doesn't like new situations, and that
is the way it is, lol. He, would have never tried out for the musical in
the first place, lol. I offered, but he said no way! But you know what, he
seems to do better in social situations than my daughter. He tends to sit
back and observe mostly, but when he begins to take part he is accepted. I
don't really get it.
I sure hope you do find some like minded families that will befriend your
children. We have the added problem that we are unschooling, and there are
no other unschoolers in the immediate area that I know of. But of course,
even if there are, they are probably not admitting it, lol. So, I get
together with homeschoolers but don't really talk about schooling. I used
to always be the one asking everyone what curriculum they used though, and
since I have tried most of them, I do understand what they are talking
about, lol. With the laws in our state, I am sure if my friends new I was
unschooling they would be working to convince me that I shouldn't be. They
are all very meticulously doing their curriculums and have always thought I
was off my rocker when I refused to give my children grades, etc. They are
all really nice people though : - ) !
many blessings,
erin
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In a message dated 1/17/03 3:37:29 AM !!!First Boot!!!,
mummyone24@... writes:
college, was a lot like your daughter. I realized that the very things that
were hard to deal with at 13 were the things that were going to make her an
incredible woman. The bossy-ness, with age, has become assertiveness - a
real positive if you ask me!
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
mummyone24@... writes:
> Not sure if you really see something your daughter is doing to push peopleJust have to add my "lurker" 2 cents here. My oldest daughter, now 21 and in
> away or it's just her age and the kids she's around. If it's the latter of
> the two, it will all change shortly.
>
college, was a lot like your daughter. I realized that the very things that
were hard to deal with at 13 were the things that were going to make her an
incredible woman. The bossy-ness, with age, has become assertiveness - a
real positive if you ask me!
Beth
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/16/03 2:52 PM, bluelotus at bluelotus@... wrote:
may not have said, I will share what I privately discussed with Yol.
I understand that there are people on the list who appreciate the homeopathy
suggestions and some who feel this is an unschooling list and it doesn't
belong. I feel that the list can accomodate a variety of suggestions that
don't interfere with unschooling even if they aren't strictly "unschooling".
Lots of people here hand out parent-to-parent advice on health matters and
parenting matters they've found works for them.
Yol is a practicing homeopath so that makes her advice *more* than
parent-to-parent. It's professional advice. I asked that she be aware of the
difference. She says there is no difference.
I think one of the things school and society robs us of as parents is a
feeling of competency: that we aren't competent to determine the needs of
our own children. We can't tell a healthy child from an unhealthy one. The
clues are so subtle that only professionals would be able to recognize them.
I think it's important to support parents' feelings of competence. When a
professional repeatedly suggests that ordinary problems should be seen by a
professional, I feel it undermines that feeling of competency.
It was beginning to feel, to me, like people were being directed to a
homeopath for too many ordinary run-of-the-mill problems that parents
normally handle themselves. I felt it was heading towards being harmful to
some people trying to regain (or build in the first place!) their sense of
confidence in themselves as parents.
A specific incident -- small in itself but more significant when compounded
by similar incidents -- was Yol's joke on the HEM-Unschooling list:
having it mean nothing more than another parent, I felt it was irresponsible
of a claimed professional to make jokes like this about something that
wasn't presented as an obsessive problem but as something the parent wanted
directed to more private times.
I did not ask her to stop giving out homeopathic advice. I asked her to be
more aware. She felt no one thought of her as a professional so her words
didn't mean any more than anyone elses'. While that may be how some people
view her, I felt it was irresponsible not to see the power her words *could*
have on some people.
Yol dismissed my suggestions and told me I'd never see her offering
homeopathic advice again. That was her choice.
And, apparently it's now her choice to change her mind when she feels it's
too important not to offer her advice. And since, to me, this *again* seems
like another perfectly ordinary problem, the extraordinary need to pass on
homeopathic advice despite her declaration not to, reinforces my feelings
that judgement and power isn't being used wisely.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
> I won't say much, because I don't want to *disempower* anyone with my *expert*Before there is any speculation on whether I should have said what I may or
> advice, as Joyce put it
may not have said, I will share what I privately discussed with Yol.
I understand that there are people on the list who appreciate the homeopathy
suggestions and some who feel this is an unschooling list and it doesn't
belong. I feel that the list can accomodate a variety of suggestions that
don't interfere with unschooling even if they aren't strictly "unschooling".
Lots of people here hand out parent-to-parent advice on health matters and
parenting matters they've found works for them.
Yol is a practicing homeopath so that makes her advice *more* than
parent-to-parent. It's professional advice. I asked that she be aware of the
difference. She says there is no difference.
I think one of the things school and society robs us of as parents is a
feeling of competency: that we aren't competent to determine the needs of
our own children. We can't tell a healthy child from an unhealthy one. The
clues are so subtle that only professionals would be able to recognize them.
I think it's important to support parents' feelings of competence. When a
professional repeatedly suggests that ordinary problems should be seen by a
professional, I feel it undermines that feeling of competency.
It was beginning to feel, to me, like people were being directed to a
homeopath for too many ordinary run-of-the-mill problems that parents
normally handle themselves. I felt it was heading towards being harmful to
some people trying to regain (or build in the first place!) their sense of
confidence in themselves as parents.
A specific incident -- small in itself but more significant when compounded
by similar incidents -- was Yol's joke on the HEM-Unschooling list:
>> What if someone said to a three year old boy who was holding hisWhile a parent could get away with saying something like this as a joke and
>> penis inside his pants, "Hey, ya looking for gold?" THAT would be
>> funny, wouldn't it? Every male in the room would get a little gleam
>> in his eye.
>>
> I wouldn't say anything to the boy, because that would be humiliating
> IMO, but I would definitely say to the parents to take him to see a
> homeopath. But you know that's me and my clinical eye... ;-)
having it mean nothing more than another parent, I felt it was irresponsible
of a claimed professional to make jokes like this about something that
wasn't presented as an obsessive problem but as something the parent wanted
directed to more private times.
I did not ask her to stop giving out homeopathic advice. I asked her to be
more aware. She felt no one thought of her as a professional so her words
didn't mean any more than anyone elses'. While that may be how some people
view her, I felt it was irresponsible not to see the power her words *could*
have on some people.
Yol dismissed my suggestions and told me I'd never see her offering
homeopathic advice again. That was her choice.
And, apparently it's now her choice to change her mind when she feels it's
too important not to offer her advice. And since, to me, this *again* seems
like another perfectly ordinary problem, the extraordinary need to pass on
homeopathic advice despite her declaration not to, reinforces my feelings
that judgement and power isn't being used wisely.
Joyce
Unschooling-dotcom moderator
[email protected]
In a message dated 01/16/2003 12:19:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jselvage@... writes:
Did I have twins and didn't remember? Our daughters sound very
similar.
I think many people have a preconceived notion of what a 13 y/o should
look and act like. When they encounter someone as outspoken, intelligent, and
mature as my daughter, they don't know how to deal with them. In their eyes
it must be the child's problem. My daughter has a handful of very close
friends, but many acquaintances. If she were in school, she would probably
not be part of the "popular group." Does this bother her? No, she is quite
happy with who she is and doesn't want to fit everyone else's mold of a 13
y/o. She'd much rather have friends because they like who she is not because
she follows the herd.
The only time she is bothered is in her theater group when the kid
with a voice that is reminiscent of fingernails on a chalkboard gets a
leading role. The director is biased toward petite girls with nasal voices.
In spite of this she wants to continue with the troop.
What does your daughter think of all this? Is she bothered by all this
or are you? I remind Carly of all her wonderful traits. You can always turn
her negatives into positives. Instead of saying bossy, say assertive,
decisive. Our best traits are usually also our worst; it's all in how you
look at them.
Ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jselvage@... writes:
> My daughter is 13. She is very outgoing socially, but does not seemed to beErin,
> well liked. I have tried to give her some hints about things that she does
> which might cause people not to like her, but overall I find this really
> difficult. I like her! She loves people and doing things
Did I have twins and didn't remember? Our daughters sound very
similar.
I think many people have a preconceived notion of what a 13 y/o should
look and act like. When they encounter someone as outspoken, intelligent, and
mature as my daughter, they don't know how to deal with them. In their eyes
it must be the child's problem. My daughter has a handful of very close
friends, but many acquaintances. If she were in school, she would probably
not be part of the "popular group." Does this bother her? No, she is quite
happy with who she is and doesn't want to fit everyone else's mold of a 13
y/o. She'd much rather have friends because they like who she is not because
she follows the herd.
The only time she is bothered is in her theater group when the kid
with a voice that is reminiscent of fingernails on a chalkboard gets a
leading role. The director is biased toward petite girls with nasal voices.
In spite of this she wants to continue with the troop.
What does your daughter think of all this? Is she bothered by all this
or are you? I remind Carly of all her wonderful traits. You can always turn
her negatives into positives. Instead of saying bossy, say assertive,
decisive. Our best traits are usually also our worst; it's all in how you
look at them.
Ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Bill and Diane
>I was like this as a teen and it didn't go away with age. If she's
>
>I think it is both. I see her do things (such as being bossy, always trying
>to be right) and I see people's reaction to her. Up until this year, she
>was completely unaware of it.
>
interested in finding out more, you might suggest "How To Win Friends
And Influence People." That was the book that really helped me (in my 30's).
:-) Diane
Bill and Diane
OK--I'll admit I'm a little tired of the "He sucks his thumb--call a
homeopath!" "He argues? Call a homeopath!" "She's mouthy? Call a
homeopath!" "Too much TV? Call a homeopath!" "Don't like the weather?
Call a homeopath!" And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and
on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on...
:-) Diane <--usually not a complainer
homeopath!" "He argues? Call a homeopath!" "She's mouthy? Call a
homeopath!" "Too much TV? Call a homeopath!" "Don't like the weather?
Call a homeopath!" And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and
on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on...
:-) Diane <--usually not a complainer
>>I won't say much, because I don't want to *disempower* anyone with my *expert*
>>advice, as Joyce put it
>>
>
>Before there is any speculation on whether I should have said what I may or
>may not have said, I will share what I privately discussed with Yol.
>
Bill and Diane
Oh, good. I was afraid it would come across wrong--I've worked really
hard not to tell everyone what to do all the time, so I'm glad this one
came across OK.
:-) Diane
hard not to tell everyone what to do all the time, so I'm glad this one
came across OK.
:-) Diane
>Diane,
>
>Good idea! I read that once a long time ago. I am not sure if she will
>read it, but I will suggest it. Thanks. In fact maybe I will read it
>first.
>
>many blessings,
>erin
>
>
>>I was like this as a teen and it didn't go away with age. If she's
>>interested in finding out more, you might suggest "How To Win Friends
>>And Influence People." That was the book that really helped me (in my
>>
>30's).
>
>>:-) Diane
>>
Jim Selvage
Diane,
Good idea! I read that once a long time ago. I am not sure if she will
read it, but I will suggest it. Thanks. In fact maybe I will read it
first.
many blessings,
erin
Good idea! I read that once a long time ago. I am not sure if she will
read it, but I will suggest it. Thanks. In fact maybe I will read it
first.
many blessings,
erin
> I was like this as a teen and it didn't go away with age. If she's30's).
> interested in finding out more, you might suggest "How To Win Friends
> And Influence People." That was the book that really helped me (in my
>
> :-) Diane
Jim Selvage
Ginny,
I think you are right about the preconceived ideas, and this may definitely
be part of the problem. I think my daughter is extremely mature at times,
and immature at other times. I am fine with that, but most people aren't.
I mostly don't want her to be scarred from the emotional trauma of the way
people treat her, but I guess that would be every parent's hope.
I am doing a lot of the reminding her that she is a terrific talented
person, and that she has one very special friend who likes her for who she
is. As a family, we try to encourage her to be herself, even when it is
unpopular, and say that we have done that as a family unit.
Probably the only reason she has been so emotional over this issue is
because she is just realizing what is happening. This year is the first
time that she realized that no one on her volleyball team talks to her, and
that they get upset with her when she tells them to do something. But
again, this is one of those situations where the beginning of the dislike
happened because she is not in school with them.
I am sure, as many have said, that things will get better as she gets older
and finds her place in the world. Just hard on her right now, and me! I
wish people really knew the girl I know! I really think unschooling is
going to help her blossom into who she wants to be. (Which was why she
wanted to do this play (it is actually a muscial) in the first place. I
told her if this was something she really wanted to do, we would do it even
though it meant traveling 45 minutes each way two days a week, etc. And,
even through all of this she still wants to do it!)
many blessings,
erin
I think you are right about the preconceived ideas, and this may definitely
be part of the problem. I think my daughter is extremely mature at times,
and immature at other times. I am fine with that, but most people aren't.
I mostly don't want her to be scarred from the emotional trauma of the way
people treat her, but I guess that would be every parent's hope.
I am doing a lot of the reminding her that she is a terrific talented
person, and that she has one very special friend who likes her for who she
is. As a family, we try to encourage her to be herself, even when it is
unpopular, and say that we have done that as a family unit.
Probably the only reason she has been so emotional over this issue is
because she is just realizing what is happening. This year is the first
time that she realized that no one on her volleyball team talks to her, and
that they get upset with her when she tells them to do something. But
again, this is one of those situations where the beginning of the dislike
happened because she is not in school with them.
I am sure, as many have said, that things will get better as she gets older
and finds her place in the world. Just hard on her right now, and me! I
wish people really knew the girl I know! I really think unschooling is
going to help her blossom into who she wants to be. (Which was why she
wanted to do this play (it is actually a muscial) in the first place. I
told her if this was something she really wanted to do, we would do it even
though it meant traveling 45 minutes each way two days a week, etc. And,
even through all of this she still wants to do it!)
many blessings,
erin
Jim Selvage
Suzanne,
Thanks for your comforting words and suggestions. I hope she does come to a
time where she is accepted for who she is.
I don't think the independant drama thing will work, as we are too far out
in the middle of nowhere. But the adult drama group might. I know they
have one in a city about 30 minutes from us, and know some homeschool kids
who participated last year and were very well received. I will have to
check it out.
thanks,
erin
improve with time. I watched my oldest, a boy, struggle with feeling he
was not accepted in his homeschool group as a teen. He continued to
participate anyway and one of the teens told him he was the kindest person
in the whole group. Sometimes it just takes one good friend. When things
are going well for our kids we hurt just as much as they do. Girls seem to
mature socially before boys, so it might not be long till your daughter is
finding herself feeling better about her social interactions. For my
oldest, he really came into his own right after he turned 17 and began
college. The like mindedness of his fellow music majors gave him a social
belongingness.
more. It could include both schoolers and non-schoolers. Many years ago I
got 6 children together, including my oldest, and they put on the play "A
Mad Tea Party." I found the script and practiced with the kids twice a week
for about a month. I had zero drama experience. After each practice they
swam in our pool and had snacks. (I'm sure the pool was a big draw, but
those kids put on a darned good performance). We taped it and the local
newspaper took their picture. If you could find a play that had several big
parts then your daughter could shine with the rest of them. Also, if you
have a community drama group where she could act with adults, that might
give her some positive feedback and a great opportunity.
Thanks for your comforting words and suggestions. I hope she does come to a
time where she is accepted for who she is.
I don't think the independant drama thing will work, as we are too far out
in the middle of nowhere. But the adult drama group might. I know they
have one in a city about 30 minutes from us, and know some homeschool kids
who participated last year and were very well received. I will have to
check it out.
thanks,
erin
> Erin,to agree with someone on the list who said that things would probably
>
> I too struggle with a lot of the types of things you mentioned. I tend
improve with time. I watched my oldest, a boy, struggle with feeling he
was not accepted in his homeschool group as a teen. He continued to
participate anyway and one of the teens told him he was the kindest person
in the whole group. Sometimes it just takes one good friend. When things
are going well for our kids we hurt just as much as they do. Girls seem to
mature socially before boys, so it might not be long till your daughter is
finding herself feeling better about her social interactions. For my
oldest, he really came into his own right after he turned 17 and began
college. The like mindedness of his fellow music majors gave him a social
belongingness.
>to start your own independant drama group. It could be for just one play or
> In the meantime I wonder if it would be possible for you and your daughter
more. It could include both schoolers and non-schoolers. Many years ago I
got 6 children together, including my oldest, and they put on the play "A
Mad Tea Party." I found the script and practiced with the kids twice a week
for about a month. I had zero drama experience. After each practice they
swam in our pool and had snacks. (I'm sure the pool was a big draw, but
those kids put on a darned good performance). We taped it and the local
newspaper took their picture. If you could find a play that had several big
parts then your daughter could shine with the rest of them. Also, if you
have a community drama group where she could act with adults, that might
give her some positive feedback and a great opportunity.
>
> Best of everything to you,
> Suzanne
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/17/03 12:47:36 PM Eastern Standard Time,
cen46624@... writes:
... well, I would say Hell, but Hell aint cold.. LOL.. anyway, its REALLY
COLD here today and if a homeopath could change the weather, Ide be calling
Yol right now..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
cen46624@... writes:
> "Too much TV? Call a homeopath!" "Don't like the weather?I havent heard this advice. but if it worked, hey, Ide try it.. Its cold as
> Call a homeopath!"
... well, I would say Hell, but Hell aint cold.. LOL.. anyway, its REALLY
COLD here today and if a homeopath could change the weather, Ide be calling
Yol right now..
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Fetteroll
on 1/17/03 12:38 PM, Bill and Diane at cen46624@... wrote:
Joyce
> OK--I'll admit I'm a little tired of the "He sucks his thumb--call aon 1/17/03 1:20 PM, grlynbl@... at grlynbl@... wrote:
> homeopath!" "He argues? Call a homeopath!"
> its REALLYSomewhere there's a good balance, I think.
> COLD here today and if a homeopath could change the weather, Ide be calling
> Yol right now..
Joyce
bluelotus
<< Yol is a practicing homeopath so that makes her advice *more* than
parent-to-parent. It's professional advice. I asked that she be aware of the
difference. She says there is no difference. >>
Because in my perception of things, I am not giving professional advice. I think *expertise* is a tone and an attitude. I think this applies also to someone who's a violin teacher or a professional violinist speaking about violin stuff. I doubt anyone takes it as *professional advice*. I tend to think that people here (and on the HEM list) are intelligent enough to take what suits them and leave the rest out.
One of the reasons why I became a homeopath is because I've seen homeopathy help me throughout my life in magical and unexpected ways. So, my posts are mostly motivated by my own experience and not necessarily by a *professional* approach. I feel very fortunate to be able to offer my daughter an alternative approach in life that will make her life even easier and healthier and happier. This is why we do homeopathy, and this is why we unschool. And this is the main motivation behind wanting to share it with other people.
<< I think one of the things school and society robs us of as parents is a
feeling of competency: that we aren't competent to determine the needs of
our own children. We can't tell a healthy child from an unhealthy one. The
clues are so subtle that only professionals would be able to recognize them. >>
It has not been my intention at all to *rob* anyone. I think that to offer information and an alternative to the mainstream medical/psychological approach is actually empowering. But as with unschooling, you'd need to switch your perception and realize that what seems "ordinary" may not be. It's like assuming that school behavior is "ordinary" when you can tell it's not if you get out of the mainstream box.
I am a parent as well, and I've seen many people bend over backwards trying to adjust their lives around issues they feel helpless about, and I can't help but feel for them and think, if they only knew! There are issues that have no simple solution, no matter how you approach them. I am grateful as a woman and as a mother for homeopathy at those times.
<< I think it's important to support parents' feelings of competence. When a
professional repeatedly suggests that ordinary problems should be seen by a
professional, I feel it undermines that feeling of competency. >>
I think it is also important to make parents feel that they're not alone and that there is help out there if they think what they're dealing with is not an "ordinary" problem. Someone who sees homeopathy as just another *medical profession* is missing on the nature of homeopathy. If I said to someone, you know meditation helps with stress and low self-esteem, would you say that I am offering *expert advice* because I've been meditating for years and have a meditation center? Does that make me an *expert*?
Homeopathy is a way of life too, where doctors, psychologists, nutritionists, and even dentists and many other *experts* can become a thing of the past, for the most part. Now, I think that can very empowering.
<< It was beginning to feel, to me, like people were being directed to a
homeopath for too many ordinary run-of-the-mill problems that parents
normally handle themselves. I felt it was heading towards being harmful to
some people trying to regain (or build in the first place!) their sense of
confidence in themselves as parents. >>
Too many problems? I posted ONCE about it on the HEM list. The truth is that nobody, except Sandra, complained about my post, which was intended as a joke in the first place! And it was not until after Sandra and I got into a discussion about a later issue that Joyce e-mailed me privately to say that my posts on homeopathy (from days before) were irresponsible.
<< I did not ask her to stop giving out homeopathic advice. I asked her to be
more aware. She felt no one thought of her as a professional so her words
didn't mean any more than anyone elses'. While that may be how some people
view her, I felt it was irresponsible not to see the power her words *could*
have on some people. >>
I still have to see my power here... At the most, I've seen people ignore, question and make fun of my posts, or asking for help finding a homeopath, or maybe inquiring about a remedy, but I haven't seen anybody intimidated by what I've posted. What I have seen, though, is someone else totally disempowering and pushing away a newcomer (on the HEM list) with harsh words, without Joyce making a peep about it. I thought it was unfair to give so much *power* to my words and not other people's tone or words, which indeed made the newcomer feel completely helpless, misunderstood and not given the chance to express herself. (Helen H. was the only one who said something about it.)
<< And, apparently it's now her choice to change her mind when she feels it's
too important not to offer her advice. And since, to me, this *again* seems
like another perfectly ordinary problem, the extraordinary need to pass on
homeopathic advice despite her declaration not to, reinforces my feelings
that judgement and power isn't being used wisely. >>
And I shouldn't have said anything, I know. It just breaks my heart sometimes to hear what some people post here and just wish they knew how things could be much easier with a little help. Would it have made any difference if I had said, when I was a teenager homeopathy helped me with similar problems...? Or does the fact that I am a homeopath now marks my every post? No need to answer, really. I'm just thinking out loud. This is your list, and I shouldn't post anything you don't want me to.
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
parent-to-parent. It's professional advice. I asked that she be aware of the
difference. She says there is no difference. >>
Because in my perception of things, I am not giving professional advice. I think *expertise* is a tone and an attitude. I think this applies also to someone who's a violin teacher or a professional violinist speaking about violin stuff. I doubt anyone takes it as *professional advice*. I tend to think that people here (and on the HEM list) are intelligent enough to take what suits them and leave the rest out.
One of the reasons why I became a homeopath is because I've seen homeopathy help me throughout my life in magical and unexpected ways. So, my posts are mostly motivated by my own experience and not necessarily by a *professional* approach. I feel very fortunate to be able to offer my daughter an alternative approach in life that will make her life even easier and healthier and happier. This is why we do homeopathy, and this is why we unschool. And this is the main motivation behind wanting to share it with other people.
<< I think one of the things school and society robs us of as parents is a
feeling of competency: that we aren't competent to determine the needs of
our own children. We can't tell a healthy child from an unhealthy one. The
clues are so subtle that only professionals would be able to recognize them. >>
It has not been my intention at all to *rob* anyone. I think that to offer information and an alternative to the mainstream medical/psychological approach is actually empowering. But as with unschooling, you'd need to switch your perception and realize that what seems "ordinary" may not be. It's like assuming that school behavior is "ordinary" when you can tell it's not if you get out of the mainstream box.
I am a parent as well, and I've seen many people bend over backwards trying to adjust their lives around issues they feel helpless about, and I can't help but feel for them and think, if they only knew! There are issues that have no simple solution, no matter how you approach them. I am grateful as a woman and as a mother for homeopathy at those times.
<< I think it's important to support parents' feelings of competence. When a
professional repeatedly suggests that ordinary problems should be seen by a
professional, I feel it undermines that feeling of competency. >>
I think it is also important to make parents feel that they're not alone and that there is help out there if they think what they're dealing with is not an "ordinary" problem. Someone who sees homeopathy as just another *medical profession* is missing on the nature of homeopathy. If I said to someone, you know meditation helps with stress and low self-esteem, would you say that I am offering *expert advice* because I've been meditating for years and have a meditation center? Does that make me an *expert*?
Homeopathy is a way of life too, where doctors, psychologists, nutritionists, and even dentists and many other *experts* can become a thing of the past, for the most part. Now, I think that can very empowering.
<< It was beginning to feel, to me, like people were being directed to a
homeopath for too many ordinary run-of-the-mill problems that parents
normally handle themselves. I felt it was heading towards being harmful to
some people trying to regain (or build in the first place!) their sense of
confidence in themselves as parents. >>
Too many problems? I posted ONCE about it on the HEM list. The truth is that nobody, except Sandra, complained about my post, which was intended as a joke in the first place! And it was not until after Sandra and I got into a discussion about a later issue that Joyce e-mailed me privately to say that my posts on homeopathy (from days before) were irresponsible.
<< I did not ask her to stop giving out homeopathic advice. I asked her to be
more aware. She felt no one thought of her as a professional so her words
didn't mean any more than anyone elses'. While that may be how some people
view her, I felt it was irresponsible not to see the power her words *could*
have on some people. >>
I still have to see my power here... At the most, I've seen people ignore, question and make fun of my posts, or asking for help finding a homeopath, or maybe inquiring about a remedy, but I haven't seen anybody intimidated by what I've posted. What I have seen, though, is someone else totally disempowering and pushing away a newcomer (on the HEM list) with harsh words, without Joyce making a peep about it. I thought it was unfair to give so much *power* to my words and not other people's tone or words, which indeed made the newcomer feel completely helpless, misunderstood and not given the chance to express herself. (Helen H. was the only one who said something about it.)
<< And, apparently it's now her choice to change her mind when she feels it's
too important not to offer her advice. And since, to me, this *again* seems
like another perfectly ordinary problem, the extraordinary need to pass on
homeopathic advice despite her declaration not to, reinforces my feelings
that judgement and power isn't being used wisely. >>
And I shouldn't have said anything, I know. It just breaks my heart sometimes to hear what some people post here and just wish they knew how things could be much easier with a little help. Would it have made any difference if I had said, when I was a teenager homeopathy helped me with similar problems...? Or does the fact that I am a homeopath now marks my every post? No need to answer, really. I'm just thinking out loud. This is your list, and I shouldn't post anything you don't want me to.
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
bluelotus
<< OK--I'll admit I'm a little tired of the "He sucks his thumb--call a
homeopath!" "He argues? Call a homeopath!" "She's mouthy? Call a
homeopath!" "Too much TV? Call a homeopath!" "Don't like the weather?
Call a homeopath!" And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and
on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on...
:-) Diane <--usually not a complainer >>
Your generous sarcasm and insulting post is really unnecessary...
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
homeopath!" "He argues? Call a homeopath!" "She's mouthy? Call a
homeopath!" "Too much TV? Call a homeopath!" "Don't like the weather?
Call a homeopath!" And on and on and on and on and on and on and on and
on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on and on
and on and on and on and on...
:-) Diane <--usually not a complainer >>
Your generous sarcasm and insulting post is really unnecessary...
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/17/03 3:22:42 PM, bluelotus@... writes:
<< I think this applies also to someone who's a violin teacher or a
professional violinist speaking about violin stuff. I doubt anyone takes it
as *professional advice*. >>
No one suggested that if a boy touches himself he'll stop if he plays violin,
nor if a girl weren't getting the part she wanted in a play that professional
violin lessons should be sought immediately.
<<I tend to think that people here (and on the HEM list) are intelligent
enough to take what suits them and leave the rest out.>>
What Joyce thinks about the list is important.
Her point is that someone who is insecure doesn't need to hear "homeopathy"
every time a learning or parenting situation is mentioned.
<<One of the reasons why I became a homeopath is because I've seen homeopathy
help me throughout my life in magical and unexpected ways. So, my posts are
mostly motivated by my own experience and not necessarily by a *professional*
approach.>>
I've loved books all my life, but if I were selling DK or Usborne books and
brought it up every time anyone said anything, I'd be professionally selling
books.
We do have people here with home businesses of all sorts who aren't flooding
the list with recommendations for their products.
<< But as with unschooling, you'd need to switch your perception and realize
that what seems "ordinary" may not be. >>
But as a mother with NO boys, you suggested strongly that little boys playing
with their penises was something about which to seek professional help. It
isn't.
Very many things ARE very ordinary. Kids not getting parts in plays happens
WAY more often than kids getting parts in plays. There is no homeopathy to
make kids good actors, nor make them charismatic.
<<I am a parent as well, and I've seen many people bend over backwards trying
to adjust their lives around issues they feel helpless about, and I can't
help but feel for them and think, if they only knew! >>
Again you're suggesting that if there is an issue a parent feels helpless
about, IF THEY ONLY KNEW there was a homeopathic "cure," they would be all
better.
<<I think it is also important to make parents feel that they're not alone
and that there is help out there if they think what they're dealing with is
not an "ordinary" problem. >>
If they think their problem is extraordinary, but other unschooling moms with
more experience can tell stories of similar situations which worked out
peacefully and sweetly, then this list will be serving a glorious purpose (as
it has for a long time).
<<If I said to someone, you know meditation helps with stress and low
self-esteem, would you say that I am offering *expert advice* because I've
been meditating for years and have a meditation center? Does that make me an
*expert*? >>
Two or three people have mentioned in the past that your bristly posts here
are NOT good advertisements for meditation or yoga.
<<And I shouldn't have said anything, I know. It just breaks my heart
sometimes to hear what some people post here and just wish they knew how
things could be much easier with a little help.>>
You could e-mail them on the side, and then nobody here could say anything
about it. Advise away, on the side. But if you do it on the public list,
with its archives, others might feel obligated to counter the claim if you've
suggested homeopathy as a remedy for something which is absolutely normal
child behavior.
Joyce says you said you wouldn't mention it further but you did.
Do you intend to keep your word on this list?
Joyce has had to TWICE defend what she actually said against your claims of
what she said.
Isn't there maybe a homeopathic remedy for being dishonest and defensive?
Sandra
<< I think this applies also to someone who's a violin teacher or a
professional violinist speaking about violin stuff. I doubt anyone takes it
as *professional advice*. >>
No one suggested that if a boy touches himself he'll stop if he plays violin,
nor if a girl weren't getting the part she wanted in a play that professional
violin lessons should be sought immediately.
<<I tend to think that people here (and on the HEM list) are intelligent
enough to take what suits them and leave the rest out.>>
What Joyce thinks about the list is important.
Her point is that someone who is insecure doesn't need to hear "homeopathy"
every time a learning or parenting situation is mentioned.
<<One of the reasons why I became a homeopath is because I've seen homeopathy
help me throughout my life in magical and unexpected ways. So, my posts are
mostly motivated by my own experience and not necessarily by a *professional*
approach.>>
I've loved books all my life, but if I were selling DK or Usborne books and
brought it up every time anyone said anything, I'd be professionally selling
books.
We do have people here with home businesses of all sorts who aren't flooding
the list with recommendations for their products.
<< But as with unschooling, you'd need to switch your perception and realize
that what seems "ordinary" may not be. >>
But as a mother with NO boys, you suggested strongly that little boys playing
with their penises was something about which to seek professional help. It
isn't.
Very many things ARE very ordinary. Kids not getting parts in plays happens
WAY more often than kids getting parts in plays. There is no homeopathy to
make kids good actors, nor make them charismatic.
<<I am a parent as well, and I've seen many people bend over backwards trying
to adjust their lives around issues they feel helpless about, and I can't
help but feel for them and think, if they only knew! >>
Again you're suggesting that if there is an issue a parent feels helpless
about, IF THEY ONLY KNEW there was a homeopathic "cure," they would be all
better.
<<I think it is also important to make parents feel that they're not alone
and that there is help out there if they think what they're dealing with is
not an "ordinary" problem. >>
If they think their problem is extraordinary, but other unschooling moms with
more experience can tell stories of similar situations which worked out
peacefully and sweetly, then this list will be serving a glorious purpose (as
it has for a long time).
<<If I said to someone, you know meditation helps with stress and low
self-esteem, would you say that I am offering *expert advice* because I've
been meditating for years and have a meditation center? Does that make me an
*expert*? >>
Two or three people have mentioned in the past that your bristly posts here
are NOT good advertisements for meditation or yoga.
<<And I shouldn't have said anything, I know. It just breaks my heart
sometimes to hear what some people post here and just wish they knew how
things could be much easier with a little help.>>
You could e-mail them on the side, and then nobody here could say anything
about it. Advise away, on the side. But if you do it on the public list,
with its archives, others might feel obligated to counter the claim if you've
suggested homeopathy as a remedy for something which is absolutely normal
child behavior.
Joyce says you said you wouldn't mention it further but you did.
Do you intend to keep your word on this list?
Joyce has had to TWICE defend what she actually said against your claims of
what she said.
Isn't there maybe a homeopathic remedy for being dishonest and defensive?
Sandra
Deborah Lewis
On Fri, 17 Jan 2003 11:50:58 -0500 Fetteroll <fetteroll@...>
writes:
***I think one of the things school and society robs us of as parents is
a
feeling of competency: that we aren't competent to determine the needs of
our own children. We can't tell a healthy child from an unhealthy one.
The
clues are so subtle that only professionals would be able to recognize
them.***
I have also been concerned with the suggestion that behaviors in a child
that we may not understand or may not be comfortable with are somehow
disorders or syndromes or illnesses.
For a long time now schools have been medicating kids who wiggle or talk
or get bored. If a child seems different in the least from the rest of
the group they're not individuals they're suffering from a disorder that
must be treated.
If kids don't like seams in their clothing, buy a bigger size or another
kind. No one is treating the millions of adults who can't wear wool. I
personally can't stand polyester, but I'm not seeking treatment for my
aversion.
I think an attitude that our children are just as they should be would be
infinitely more in keeping with an unschooling philosophy than an
attitude that some little difference is a sign of an imbalance.
Deb L
writes:
***I think one of the things school and society robs us of as parents is
a
feeling of competency: that we aren't competent to determine the needs of
our own children. We can't tell a healthy child from an unhealthy one.
The
clues are so subtle that only professionals would be able to recognize
them.***
I have also been concerned with the suggestion that behaviors in a child
that we may not understand or may not be comfortable with are somehow
disorders or syndromes or illnesses.
For a long time now schools have been medicating kids who wiggle or talk
or get bored. If a child seems different in the least from the rest of
the group they're not individuals they're suffering from a disorder that
must be treated.
If kids don't like seams in their clothing, buy a bigger size or another
kind. No one is treating the millions of adults who can't wear wool. I
personally can't stand polyester, but I'm not seeking treatment for my
aversion.
I think an attitude that our children are just as they should be would be
infinitely more in keeping with an unschooling philosophy than an
attitude that some little difference is a sign of an imbalance.
Deb L
Jim Selvage
Diane,
Don't worry it came across fine! I am used to being told what to do all the
time anyway though (the forementioned daughter, lol). She really doesn't do
it all the time, but plenty!
blessings,
erin
Don't worry it came across fine! I am used to being told what to do all the
time anyway though (the forementioned daughter, lol). She really doesn't do
it all the time, but plenty!
blessings,
erin
> Oh, good. I was afraid it would come across wrong--I've worked really
> hard not to tell everyone what to do all the time, so I'm glad this one
> came across OK.
>
> :-) Diane
Stephanie Elms
> Also, if you have a community dramaI second this! We had a wonderful community theater group that I got involved with
> group where she could act with adults, that might give her
> some positive feedback and a great opportunity.
>
when I was in 6th grade. I got the part of Bashful in the Snow White. Best time of
my life and fostered a wonderful love of the theater. It really is great to be able
to act next to the adults. When we moved to Maryland, I was involved with a great
Children's theater as well as community theater. Funny thing, I never played more
then bit parts in high school...there seemed to be more favoritism there. But
I got great parts in community theater...my favorite was playing Dinah in The
Philadelphia Story (I was 17 playing 15). I was the only "kid" in the cast and
learned so much. IN college I switched to doing behind the scenes stuff (mainly
because I could not get home to audition for summer plays early enough). Kept
doing it up until Jason was born (freaked people out when they saw a pregnant
woman climbing up the ladder into the light booth LOL!)
Well, I guess that I rambled a bit...can you tell I loved community theater.
Stephanie E.