Braces, Scholarships, and stuff...
Heidi <[email protected]>
Hello
Here's a situation I'd like to see how unschooling would apply.
Your child needs braces, not because of major tooth misalignment, but
because of a hidden jaw alignment that, if not corrected, will
develop into TMJ in later life. His smile looks fine, his teeth are
straight and white...but there is a flaw in his bite that will lead
to health probs down the road. He doesn't want braces. He dislikes
how they look on people and thinks they would be too painful, esp.
when he can't see anything wrong with how he looks and no one is
teasing him about crooked teeth.
Do you have him fitted with braces, anyway?
Also, your child begins to find an interest in higher learning at
about age 17...he is nearly at the end of his high school years, even
though he isn't in any grade or what have you. Now he's looking into
going to college. You make just enough money that he won't qualify
for aid, but not enough to pay his way. If he'd been working on it
from an earlier age, he might have the means for a scholarship, or at
least a high school transcript and a diploma behind him. Now, though,
he's desiring to do this but not able to because he doesn't qualify
for scholarships. GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
without a history of doing very well academically.
Work his way through...yeah, that's an option, for sure. Wouldn't be
the first time. But lack of planning in his earlier years has left
him with FEWER OPTIONS than he would have had, if there'd been some
structure and some pushing back there. A child may not know himself
well enough to realize that formal education is something he wants to
do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.
What say ye?
Heidi
Here's a situation I'd like to see how unschooling would apply.
Your child needs braces, not because of major tooth misalignment, but
because of a hidden jaw alignment that, if not corrected, will
develop into TMJ in later life. His smile looks fine, his teeth are
straight and white...but there is a flaw in his bite that will lead
to health probs down the road. He doesn't want braces. He dislikes
how they look on people and thinks they would be too painful, esp.
when he can't see anything wrong with how he looks and no one is
teasing him about crooked teeth.
Do you have him fitted with braces, anyway?
Also, your child begins to find an interest in higher learning at
about age 17...he is nearly at the end of his high school years, even
though he isn't in any grade or what have you. Now he's looking into
going to college. You make just enough money that he won't qualify
for aid, but not enough to pay his way. If he'd been working on it
from an earlier age, he might have the means for a scholarship, or at
least a high school transcript and a diploma behind him. Now, though,
he's desiring to do this but not able to because he doesn't qualify
for scholarships. GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
without a history of doing very well academically.
Work his way through...yeah, that's an option, for sure. Wouldn't be
the first time. But lack of planning in his earlier years has left
him with FEWER OPTIONS than he would have had, if there'd been some
structure and some pushing back there. A child may not know himself
well enough to realize that formal education is something he wants to
do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.
What say ye?
Heidi
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "Heidi
<bunsofaluminum60@h...>" <bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
A child may not know himself
one of the first things I read about as I ventured into this arena.
Secondly, the options you mentioned (as in scholarships due to
grades or academic performance) are still a big if. Lots of kids
go through the steps to finish high school and fulfill
requirements and *still* don't qualify for the grants and
scholarships that you are suggesting.
But lastly, and this is the one that changed everything for me, why
do we put more weight on preparing against a possible desire
than on the pursuit of one that is currently self-evident, allowing
for the possiblity that that very pursuit will be the key to leading a
child where he/she actually wants to go?!
Recently a mom on a nother forum where I spend a good deal of
my time talked about her 17 yod who got 1580 on the SATs. This
girl is completely stumped aout what school to pick and where to
apply. She doesn't know what she wants to do with her life and
is feeling that paralysis that comes before a major decision.
She has optionsmultitudes of them. What she doesn't ahve is
clarity. Yet she is the model public schooled kid.
How many of us knew ourselves well after twelve years in "the
system"?
My hope is that my kids can use this season of their lives to live
to the fullest in a way that satisfies their innate curiosities. And by
doing that, we are trusting that at the appropriate hour, they will
see what it is that will come next.
If it turned out that one of our kids said, "Gee, I really did want to
go to Princeton and my form of education won't convince the
admissions folks that I am qualified, what can I do?" We will go
for it then. We will face that issue then. That seems profoundly
logical to me.
(Did you see Rudy? Great movie to see what happens when a
kid decides what he wants to do and does what it takes to make
it happen, even at Notre Dame and without money or a good
high school record.)
Another book that helped me is REAL lives by Grace Llewellyn. I
love that these kids didn't even all want college once they had
found their niche in life. Who knows how our kids will spend their
early adult years? Simply using the teen years as an insurance
policy just in case seems such a sad way to approach life.
And fwiw, so far my oldest two do want to go to college so we are
making decisions accordingly...
Julie B
<bunsofaluminum60@h...>" <bunsofaluminum60@h...> wrote:
A child may not know himself
> well enough to realize that formal education is something hewants to
> do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.Lots of kids have gone to college who were unschooled. That's
>
> What say ye?
>
> Heidi
one of the first things I read about as I ventured into this arena.
Secondly, the options you mentioned (as in scholarships due to
grades or academic performance) are still a big if. Lots of kids
go through the steps to finish high school and fulfill
requirements and *still* don't qualify for the grants and
scholarships that you are suggesting.
But lastly, and this is the one that changed everything for me, why
do we put more weight on preparing against a possible desire
than on the pursuit of one that is currently self-evident, allowing
for the possiblity that that very pursuit will be the key to leading a
child where he/she actually wants to go?!
Recently a mom on a nother forum where I spend a good deal of
my time talked about her 17 yod who got 1580 on the SATs. This
girl is completely stumped aout what school to pick and where to
apply. She doesn't know what she wants to do with her life and
is feeling that paralysis that comes before a major decision.
She has optionsmultitudes of them. What she doesn't ahve is
clarity. Yet she is the model public schooled kid.
How many of us knew ourselves well after twelve years in "the
system"?
My hope is that my kids can use this season of their lives to live
to the fullest in a way that satisfies their innate curiosities. And by
doing that, we are trusting that at the appropriate hour, they will
see what it is that will come next.
If it turned out that one of our kids said, "Gee, I really did want to
go to Princeton and my form of education won't convince the
admissions folks that I am qualified, what can I do?" We will go
for it then. We will face that issue then. That seems profoundly
logical to me.
(Did you see Rudy? Great movie to see what happens when a
kid decides what he wants to do and does what it takes to make
it happen, even at Notre Dame and without money or a good
high school record.)
Another book that helped me is REAL lives by Grace Llewellyn. I
love that these kids didn't even all want college once they had
found their niche in life. Who knows how our kids will spend their
early adult years? Simply using the teen years as an insurance
policy just in case seems such a sad way to approach life.
And fwiw, so far my oldest two do want to go to college so we are
making decisions accordingly...
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 01/15/2003 1:36:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
a wonderful, less expensive way to try out "higher learning". If your child
doesn't like it, you or he is not out thousands of dollars.
Ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> Also, your child begins to find an interest in higher learning atHave you thought of community college? If you have one nearby, they are often
> about age 17...he is nearly at the end of his high school years, even
> though he isn't in any grade or what have you. Now he's looking into
> going to college. You make just enough money that he won't qualify
> for aid, but not enough to pay his way. If he'd been working on it
> from an earlier age, he might have the means for a scholarship, or at
> least a high school transcript and a diploma behind him. Now, though,
> he's desiring to do this but not able to because he doesn't qualify
> for scholarships. GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
> entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
> without a history of doing very well academically.
a wonderful, less expensive way to try out "higher learning". If your child
doesn't like it, you or he is not out thousands of dollars.
Ginny
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/03 11:36:07 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
<< Do you have him fitted with braces, anyway? >>
No.
Not only because dentists are so often wrong, but just no.
He can have corrective work done later if he wants to.
<<GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
without a history of doing very well academically.>>
He can go one semester, and if he does well, apply for scholarships on the
basis of that, explaining why he has no prior transcripts.
<<But lack of planning in his earlier years has left
him with FEWER OPTIONS than he would have had, if there'd been some
structure and some pushing back there.>>
If he'd had more structure and pushing aimed toward the possibility of being
able to apply for scholarships at a college he might not even have wanted to
attend, what would he have lost in exchange?
<<A child may not know himself
well enough to realize that formal education is something he wants to
do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.>>
I refuse to press my children to live for the possibility of college. Some
children die before they're college age. I'd rather help them live as though
they might die tomorrow. (I've never mentioned it, but I do think of a
friend of mine who killed himself at 14, and I look at my kids, and I don't
hassle them.
Sandra
<< Do you have him fitted with braces, anyway? >>
No.
Not only because dentists are so often wrong, but just no.
He can have corrective work done later if he wants to.
<<GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
without a history of doing very well academically.>>
He can go one semester, and if he does well, apply for scholarships on the
basis of that, explaining why he has no prior transcripts.
<<But lack of planning in his earlier years has left
him with FEWER OPTIONS than he would have had, if there'd been some
structure and some pushing back there.>>
If he'd had more structure and pushing aimed toward the possibility of being
able to apply for scholarships at a college he might not even have wanted to
attend, what would he have lost in exchange?
<<A child may not know himself
well enough to realize that formal education is something he wants to
do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.>>
I refuse to press my children to live for the possibility of college. Some
children die before they're college age. I'd rather help them live as though
they might die tomorrow. (I've never mentioned it, but I do think of a
friend of mine who killed himself at 14, and I look at my kids, and I don't
hassle them.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/03 11:47:42 AM, julie@... writes:
<< How many of us knew ourselves well after twelve years in "the
system"? >>
I did.
Not BECAUSE of the system, though.
I was just a self-knowing kind of kid.
Seriously. That's like asking "How many of us could have been professional
musicians at the age of ten?" Not me, but my friend Marty was playing
piano for church at 10, and surpassed any piano teacher within 90 miles
within a couple of years.
That's because Martha had a HUGE musical intelligence.
And I did interpersonal naturally, and so was really interested in why people
did what they did, and what they thought they were going to do next, and then
watching and seeing what they actually DID to next, and why. And I did the
same with myself. I always checked what I thought was going to happen
against what I really ended up saying or doing, and being analytical about
that.
So this question is valid and good:
-=-<< How many of us knew ourselves well after twelve years in "the
system"? >>-=-
But it's not because of the system, necessarily.
Interpersonal talent is not rewarded in school at all. Some kids use it to
get better grades, to get away with stuff in class, to get out of library
fines, whatever all... but generally in school kids with interpersonal
interests are given bad grades in conduct and told they're not in school to
socialize.
So how many kids know themselves well after twelve to eighteen years of
homeschooling?
Depends whether their parents have encouraged and drawn out their knowledge
of such things, I think.
And unschoolers have WAY more chance of doing that successfully for lots of
reasons, but what springs to mind right away are theshaming him for not
putting his name in the right place or some other school-specific and
arbitrary thing.
He hasn't become equated with a bundle of test scores and grades.
He's had time to think.
Probably his mom has some knowledge of Howard Gardner's multiple
intelligences theory, and is herself aware of whether interpersonal and
intrapersonal skills are strong in a child or not.
Sandra
<< How many of us knew ourselves well after twelve years in "the
system"? >>
I did.
Not BECAUSE of the system, though.
I was just a self-knowing kind of kid.
Seriously. That's like asking "How many of us could have been professional
musicians at the age of ten?" Not me, but my friend Marty was playing
piano for church at 10, and surpassed any piano teacher within 90 miles
within a couple of years.
That's because Martha had a HUGE musical intelligence.
And I did interpersonal naturally, and so was really interested in why people
did what they did, and what they thought they were going to do next, and then
watching and seeing what they actually DID to next, and why. And I did the
same with myself. I always checked what I thought was going to happen
against what I really ended up saying or doing, and being analytical about
that.
So this question is valid and good:
-=-<< How many of us knew ourselves well after twelve years in "the
system"? >>-=-
But it's not because of the system, necessarily.
Interpersonal talent is not rewarded in school at all. Some kids use it to
get better grades, to get away with stuff in class, to get out of library
fines, whatever all... but generally in school kids with interpersonal
interests are given bad grades in conduct and told they're not in school to
socialize.
So how many kids know themselves well after twelve to eighteen years of
homeschooling?
Depends whether their parents have encouraged and drawn out their knowledge
of such things, I think.
And unschoolers have WAY more chance of doing that successfully for lots of
reasons, but what springs to mind right away are theshaming him for not
putting his name in the right place or some other school-specific and
arbitrary thing.
He hasn't become equated with a bundle of test scores and grades.
He's had time to think.
Probably his mom has some knowledge of Howard Gardner's multiple
intelligences theory, and is herself aware of whether interpersonal and
intrapersonal skills are strong in a child or not.
Sandra
Shyrley
"Heidi " wrote:
Plus, it is up t the child. If he changes his mind later then it can be done then.
What sort of problems do bite flaws cause?
What about a part-time degree? Then a young person can work (and earn valuable work experience which employers generally are more interested in than a degree) and attend university.
went to the local college and obtained some A levels and went to university at 20. I think I did better at university because I had decided to go therefore I really worked and enjoyed it too.
Universities seem to welcome mature students and often waive the entrance requirements. I was interviewed and they were far more interested in my back-packing round the world than in which exams I took.
Shyrley
> HelloWell I wouldn't. But then I'm English and we're way more relaxed about teeth.
>
> Here's a situation I'd like to see how unschooling would apply.
>
> Your child needs braces, not because of major tooth misalignment, but
> because of a hidden jaw alignment that, if not corrected, will
> develop into TMJ in later life. His smile looks fine, his teeth are
> straight and white...but there is a flaw in his bite that will lead
> to health probs down the road. He doesn't want braces. He dislikes
> how they look on people and thinks they would be too painful, esp.
> when he can't see anything wrong with how he looks and no one is
> teasing him about crooked teeth.
>
> Do you have him fitted with braces, anyway?
Plus, it is up t the child. If he changes his mind later then it can be done then.
What sort of problems do bite flaws cause?
>Actually, I'm interetsed in knowing how university is funded here. Once they are 18 surely your income doesn't count? They are legally adult and seperate from the parents.
>
> Also, your child begins to find an interest in higher learning at
> about age 17...he is nearly at the end of his high school years, even
> though he isn't in any grade or what have you. Now he's looking into
> going to college. You make just enough money that he won't qualify
> for aid, but not enough to pay his way. If he'd been working on it
> from an earlier age, he might have the means for a scholarship, or at
> least a high school transcript and a diploma behind him. Now, though,
> he's desiring to do this but not able to because he doesn't qualify
> for scholarships. GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
> entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
> without a history of doing very well academically.
What about a part-time degree? Then a young person can work (and earn valuable work experience which employers generally are more interested in than a degree) and attend university.
>It's never too late though. I skivved off school most of the time but when I was 18 decided I wanted to go to university. I had no qualifications as I failed to turn up to take my O levels at 16. So I
>
> Work his way through...yeah, that's an option, for sure. Wouldn't be
> the first time. But lack of planning in his earlier years has left
> him with FEWER OPTIONS than he would have had, if there'd been some
> structure and some pushing back there. A child may not know himself
> well enough to realize that formal education is something he wants to
> do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.
went to the local college and obtained some A levels and went to university at 20. I think I did better at university because I had decided to go therefore I really worked and enjoyed it too.
Universities seem to welcome mature students and often waive the entrance requirements. I was interviewed and they were far more interested in my back-packing round the world than in which exams I took.
Shyrley
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/03 1:36:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
are these actual scenarios you want some help with or "What if's"?
Hypotheticals are very hard to discuss.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> What say ye?Heidi,
>
> Heidi
>
>
>
are these actual scenarios you want some help with or "What if's"?
Hypotheticals are very hard to discuss.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/2003 1:36:05 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
that decision THEN.
kids, for kids whose fathers have died. for----just about EVERYTHING under
the sun! There are Rotary scholarships to travel to Europe! Look around!
We don't worry what we didn't do. We dream about what we CAN do. From his
lack of planning he may have learned that he needs to take some to prepare
for what's ahead NOW. Whining about "fewer options" will get you nowhere.
do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.<<<
Well he's the only one who's GOING to know himself well enough. No one else
will. What's he waiting for? What's his passion? That ol' stand by: "Do what
you love, and the money will follow" is SO true!!! He needs to delve into his
passion. Screw college unless it's a REQUIREMENT for what he wants to do.
There are so many other ways to reach a destination!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> Do you have him fitted with braces, anyway?No. They HIS teeth. If they start bothering him when he's 35, he can make
that decision THEN.
> Now, though,YES, there are! There are scholarships for left-handed people, for dog show
> he's desiring to do this but not able to because he doesn't qualify
> for scholarships. GED's are a tool, for sure, and so are college
> entrance exams, but there's no scholarships available for kids
> without a history of doing very well academically.
kids, for kids whose fathers have died. for----just about EVERYTHING under
the sun! There are Rotary scholarships to travel to Europe! Look around!
> Work his way through...yeah, that's an option, for sure. Wouldn't beWe start from TODAY.
> the first time. But lack of planning in his earlier years has left
> him with FEWER OPTIONS than he would have had, if there'd been some
> structure and some pushing back there.
We don't worry what we didn't do. We dream about what we CAN do. From his
lack of planning he may have learned that he needs to take some to prepare
for what's ahead NOW. Whining about "fewer options" will get you nowhere.
>>>A child may not know himselfwell enough to realize that formal education is something he wants to
do...MAY not? I'd venture, he WON'T know himself well enough.<<<
Well he's the only one who's GOING to know himself well enough. No one else
will. What's he waiting for? What's his passion? That ol' stand by: "Do what
you love, and the money will follow" is SO true!!! He needs to delve into his
passion. Screw college unless it's a REQUIREMENT for what he wants to do.
There are so many other ways to reach a destination!
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
For a not theoretical look at what an actual unschooling family did when
their son suddenly decided at 17 that he wanted to attend college after all,
read From Homeschool to College and Work by Allison McKee.
Deborah
their son suddenly decided at 17 that he wanted to attend college after all,
read From Homeschool to College and Work by Allison McKee.
Deborah
[email protected]
**Actually, I'm interetsed in knowing how university is funded here. Once
they are 18 surely your income doesn't count? They are legally adult and
seperate from the parents.**
Nope. :) Unless they can prove they haven't lived with you for a couple
years and you haven't been supporting them, college tuition is assumed to be
a parental responsibility. Sucks for kids whose parents have a high income
but refuse to help them out for one reason or another.
We could have a long discussion about all the ridiculousness inherent in the
university systems treating 18 yos as independent adults in all areas EXCEPT
eligibility for financial aid, while we're at it. :)
Deborah in IL
they are 18 surely your income doesn't count? They are legally adult and
seperate from the parents.**
Nope. :) Unless they can prove they haven't lived with you for a couple
years and you haven't been supporting them, college tuition is assumed to be
a parental responsibility. Sucks for kids whose parents have a high income
but refuse to help them out for one reason or another.
We could have a long discussion about all the ridiculousness inherent in the
university systems treating 18 yos as independent adults in all areas EXCEPT
eligibility for financial aid, while we're at it. :)
Deborah in IL
Heidi <[email protected]>
Hi Elissa
These are hypotheticals, but also things that could really happen.
I've seen lots of replies, though. What I'm doing is, trying to get a
grasp on how far or how deep the "let them choose" goes. I think
there are scenarios where the parent DOES decide, period.
The braces thing...that's me. Although in my childhood, my bite was
not seen as needing braces, because my teeth are straight and strong,
but my lower jaw is too little. It started clicking in eighth grade
and still does, and I grind my teeth non-stop, both symptoms of TMJ.
My molars have cracks in them. Nothing serious at this point, but the
grinding will lead to greater tooth damage. Get braces now. That is
an option, and I don't blame my folks, because the dentist
didn't "see" the TMJ due to my perfect bite.
Teeth that are straightened in childhood tend to stay aligned. Adult
bone has hardened, so braces are a longer process and more expensive,
and may not "take." I'm not going to get braces, because I can't
afford them, but I do consider that not getting them in childhood has
proven to be a minor health...hassle...that may develop into
something bigger and too bad, because I can't afford them, anyway.
anyways, you guys have answered my "hypotheticals" very well. I like
how this group seems to constantly think outside the box. You've been
good for me.
Heidi
These are hypotheticals, but also things that could really happen.
I've seen lots of replies, though. What I'm doing is, trying to get a
grasp on how far or how deep the "let them choose" goes. I think
there are scenarios where the parent DOES decide, period.
The braces thing...that's me. Although in my childhood, my bite was
not seen as needing braces, because my teeth are straight and strong,
but my lower jaw is too little. It started clicking in eighth grade
and still does, and I grind my teeth non-stop, both symptoms of TMJ.
My molars have cracks in them. Nothing serious at this point, but the
grinding will lead to greater tooth damage. Get braces now. That is
an option, and I don't blame my folks, because the dentist
didn't "see" the TMJ due to my perfect bite.
Teeth that are straightened in childhood tend to stay aligned. Adult
bone has hardened, so braces are a longer process and more expensive,
and may not "take." I'm not going to get braces, because I can't
afford them, but I do consider that not getting them in childhood has
proven to be a minor health...hassle...that may develop into
something bigger and too bad, because I can't afford them, anyway.
anyways, you guys have answered my "hypotheticals" very well. I like
how this group seems to constantly think outside the box. You've been
good for me.
Heidi
--- In [email protected], Earthmomma67@a... wrote:
> In a message dated 1/15/03 1:36:08 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> bunsofaluminum60@h... writes:
>
> > What say ye?
> >
> > Heidi
> >
> >
> >
> Heidi,
> are these actual scenarios you want some help with or "What if's"?
> Hypotheticals are very hard to discuss.
>
> *~*Elissa Jill*~*
> unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
> Loving partner for life to Joey
> terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/16/2003 7:58:01 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
decides at 35 to get braces, it may be up to him to foot the bill.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> Teeth that are straightened in childhood tend to stay aligned. AdultYou could also mention that NOW, you're willing to pay for them. If he
> bone has hardened, so braces are a longer process and more expensive,
> and may not "take." I'm not going to get braces, because I can't
> afford them, but I do consider that not getting them in childhood has
> proven to be a minor health...hassle...that may develop into
> something bigger and too bad, because I can't afford them, anyway.
decides at 35 to get braces, it may be up to him to foot the bill.
~Kelly
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/16/03 8:39:44 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
Although,Ive never had this problem. Anna WANTED braces.. shes in them for
about 6 more mos.. Her teeth are now beautifully straight. Only complaints
she had were wearing rubber bands for a couple of months.. But, she knew that
if she didnt wear them, well, all would be for naught, and also the time she
had to wear them would be extended. Ethan is next in line, and bless his
heart, he asks me almost weekly when he can get his braces.. His overbite is
horrible and he feels very self conscience and embarrassed by it. Although,
it weighs much less on him now that he is home and not getting picked on in
school.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
kbcdlovejo@... writes:
> You could also mention that NOW, you're willing to pay for them. If heGREAT POINT!
> decides at 35 to get braces, it may be up to him to foot the bill.
>
> ~Kelly
>
Although,Ive never had this problem. Anna WANTED braces.. shes in them for
about 6 more mos.. Her teeth are now beautifully straight. Only complaints
she had were wearing rubber bands for a couple of months.. But, she knew that
if she didnt wear them, well, all would be for naught, and also the time she
had to wear them would be extended. Ethan is next in line, and bless his
heart, he asks me almost weekly when he can get his braces.. His overbite is
horrible and he feels very self conscience and embarrassed by it. Although,
it weighs much less on him now that he is home and not getting picked on in
school.
Teresa
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**The braces thing...that's me. Although in my childhood, my bite was
not seen as needing braces, because my teeth are straight and strong,
but my lower jaw is too little. It started clicking in eighth grade
and still does, and I grind my teeth non-stop, both symptoms of TMJ.
My molars have cracks in them. Nothing serious at this point, but the
grinding will lead to greater tooth damage. Get braces now. That is
an option, and I don't blame my folks, because the dentist
didn't "see" the TMJ due to my perfect bite. **
Hi, Heidi --
I didn't originally post on this topic, about pushing a child to get
braces to prevent TMJ. But as I was reading, I was thinking that one
way to make a better decision (for the hypothetical child) would be to
look at the available dental literature and find out, for people who DO
get TMJ later from this cause, how severe the symptoms are, and
specifically, *what the treatment options are*. I think this would help
in coming to the best possible decision.
I don't know if it would ever be possible to get good data on what
percentage of kids with similar "bite alignment" problems actually
develop TMJ as adults. Maybe it is close to 100%, but it would be
interesting to have a number. I would assume that an orthodontist might
be more likely to overdo it than to underdo it, in making a diagnosis.
If there was an alternative method to treating a potential problem, I
don't know how much information they would give.
Betsy
not seen as needing braces, because my teeth are straight and strong,
but my lower jaw is too little. It started clicking in eighth grade
and still does, and I grind my teeth non-stop, both symptoms of TMJ.
My molars have cracks in them. Nothing serious at this point, but the
grinding will lead to greater tooth damage. Get braces now. That is
an option, and I don't blame my folks, because the dentist
didn't "see" the TMJ due to my perfect bite. **
Hi, Heidi --
I didn't originally post on this topic, about pushing a child to get
braces to prevent TMJ. But as I was reading, I was thinking that one
way to make a better decision (for the hypothetical child) would be to
look at the available dental literature and find out, for people who DO
get TMJ later from this cause, how severe the symptoms are, and
specifically, *what the treatment options are*. I think this would help
in coming to the best possible decision.
I don't know if it would ever be possible to get good data on what
percentage of kids with similar "bite alignment" problems actually
develop TMJ as adults. Maybe it is close to 100%, but it would be
interesting to have a number. I would assume that an orthodontist might
be more likely to overdo it than to underdo it, in making a diagnosis.
If there was an alternative method to treating a potential problem, I
don't know how much information they would give.
Betsy
Jim Selvage
Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ because
she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
blessings,
erin
she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
blessings,
erin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Betsy" <ecsamhill@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, January 16, 2003 9:47 AM
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Braces, Scholarships, and stuff...
>
>
> **The braces thing...that's me. Although in my childhood, my bite was
> not seen as needing braces, because my teeth are straight and strong,
> but my lower jaw is too little. It started clicking in eighth grade
> and still does, and I grind my teeth non-stop, both symptoms of TMJ.
> My molars have cracks in them. Nothing serious at this point, but the
> grinding will lead to greater tooth damage. Get braces now. That is
> an option, and I don't blame my folks, because the dentist
> didn't "see" the TMJ due to my perfect bite. **
>
> Hi, Heidi --
>
> I didn't originally post on this topic, about pushing a child to get
> braces to prevent TMJ. But as I was reading, I was thinking that one
> way to make a better decision (for the hypothetical child) would be to
> look at the available dental literature and find out, for people who DO
> get TMJ later from this cause, how severe the symptoms are, and
> specifically, *what the treatment options are*. I think this would help
> in coming to the best possible decision.
>
> I don't know if it would ever be possible to get good data on what
> percentage of kids with similar "bite alignment" problems actually
> develop TMJ as adults. Maybe it is close to 100%, but it would be
> interesting to have a number. I would assume that an orthodontist might
> be more likely to overdo it than to underdo it, in making a diagnosis.
> If there was an alternative method to treating a potential problem, I
> don't know how much information they would give.
>
> Betsy
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Shyrley
Jim Selvage wrote:
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
> Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ becauseWhat is TMJ?
> she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
> caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
> use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
>
> blessings,
> erin
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Kelli Traaseth
TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
> Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ becauseWhat is TMJ?
> she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
> caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
> use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
>
> blessings,
> erin
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
> Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ becauseWhat is TMJ?
> she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
> caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
> use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
>
> blessings,
> erin
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner, Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
> Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ becauseWhat is TMJ?
> she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
> caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
> use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
>
> blessings,
> erin
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
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To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an email to:
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
William Wordsworth
---------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli Traaseth
sorry, have a new computer and I think it has gas or something!
Kelli
Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...> wrote:
TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Kelli
Kelli Traaseth <kellitraas@...> wrote:
TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,
Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Jim Selvage wrote:
> Just to throw a wrench into this whole TMJ idea, my sister has TMJ becauseWhat is TMJ?
> she HAD braces. Her dentist said the pressure on the jaw from her headgear
> caused the TMJ. (I have heard that they don't use headgears now, like they
> use to, but how do we know that what they are using won't cause the TMJ.)
>
> blessings,
> erin
Never heard of it. I had braces too. In the UK braces tend to be for teeththat overlap so cleaning is difficult. It is done for medical reasons, not usually cosmetic. I think you can pay private
dentists to have it done for cosmetic reasons but no-one I know ever did.
Shyrley
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Shyrley
Kelli Traaseth wrote:
I reckon its your funny accents or opening the mouth wide to eat Burgers ;-)
Shyrley...running away now :-)
> TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,Must be an American thing. I've never heard of it.
>
> Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
>
>
>
I reckon its your funny accents or opening the mouth wide to eat Burgers ;-)
Shyrley...running away now :-)
Kelli Traaseth
Ohhhhhhhh, Shyrley!!
This near vegie had some TMJ, not bad tho'.
I think its the undo stress that develops in our main stream society, gritting of teeth..grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......<g>
Mine has gone away in the last 10 to 15 years years and how long have I been out of school?.........interesting!
Kelli
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Kelli Traaseth wrote:
I reckon its your funny accents or opening the mouth wide to eat Burgers ;-)
Shyrley...running away now :-)
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Come forth into the light of things, let Nature be your teacher.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
This near vegie had some TMJ, not bad tho'.
I think its the undo stress that develops in our main stream society, gritting of teeth..grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr......<g>
Mine has gone away in the last 10 to 15 years years and how long have I been out of school?.........interesting!
Kelli
Shyrley <shyrley.williams@...> wrote:
Kelli Traaseth wrote:
> TMJ - temporomandibular joint, in other words, jaw joint, jaw joint problems that can cause the jaw to lock, ache with severe pain in face, head and down neck. Not fun, people can't do a whole lot about it, people used to get surgeries but then the condition would end up worse,Must be an American thing. I've never heard of it.
>
> Unless they've come up with more lately, alot of people will wear a splint in their mouths as they sleep to help.
>
>
>
I reckon its your funny accents or opening the mouth wide to eat Burgers ;-)
Shyrley...running away now :-)
Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
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