Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Training our kids/loving our kids
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/03 7:11:03 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
<< Could the difference be, not the amount of controlling or the
expectations we place upon our children, but the relationships we
develop with them? >>
I see those as related things.
<<Did the families in scenario 1 apply controlling methods without
developing a warm, sincere bond with their kids?>>
It's pretty hard to control someone without it costing some trust and love
and closeness.
If I "trained my kids" to nurse or use the toilet (which I did not, but some
people like to think they did), if I "taught my kids" to talk or walk (which
I did not, but some people like to think they did), then I would have
certainty that I would have to train and teach them every other thing that
came along. But I was lucky to learn and discover early on that each child
has within him the instinct to nurse, the desire to be like the adults around
him, the urge to try to stand and walk, and that the best I could do was keep
them clean and happy and give them peaceful experiences and opportunities.
My kids know they can learn things on their own. They learned to read, just
by asking questions, watching people read, being read to, goofing around with
words, seeing words everywhere, on signs, packages, videos (subtitles or
read-along words), clothing... and because they DID learn to read without
having lessons and a "reading method," they have no fear whatsoever of
learning anything else. They're not waiting for me to teach them the next
thing.
That might've seemed like a tangent, but I think it's a tangent into the core
of the question of what our role is in making them nice people.
Sandra
<< Could the difference be, not the amount of controlling or the
expectations we place upon our children, but the relationships we
develop with them? >>
I see those as related things.
<<Did the families in scenario 1 apply controlling methods without
developing a warm, sincere bond with their kids?>>
It's pretty hard to control someone without it costing some trust and love
and closeness.
If I "trained my kids" to nurse or use the toilet (which I did not, but some
people like to think they did), if I "taught my kids" to talk or walk (which
I did not, but some people like to think they did), then I would have
certainty that I would have to train and teach them every other thing that
came along. But I was lucky to learn and discover early on that each child
has within him the instinct to nurse, the desire to be like the adults around
him, the urge to try to stand and walk, and that the best I could do was keep
them clean and happy and give them peaceful experiences and opportunities.
My kids know they can learn things on their own. They learned to read, just
by asking questions, watching people read, being read to, goofing around with
words, seeing words everywhere, on signs, packages, videos (subtitles or
read-along words), clothing... and because they DID learn to read without
having lessons and a "reading method," they have no fear whatsoever of
learning anything else. They're not waiting for me to teach them the next
thing.
That might've seemed like a tangent, but I think it's a tangent into the core
of the question of what our role is in making them nice people.
Sandra
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/14/03 7:28:06 AM Pacific Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:
"You must work with your kids". I always tell them it's never work. I don't
"teach" them anything. I also get well what curriculum do you use or what
pre-school do your kids go to? We don't use any curriculum, nor do I intend
to ever do that unless my kid or kids have a strong desire to do so. They
don't attend pre-school and never will attend school, unless they decide they
want to go to school. I get a lot of stares and weird looks when I tell them
that I'm not using any curriculum, do not have nor will never have lesson
plans, tests or a schedule. This really frightens people. I've explained
how my family will live to people who are important to me, others I don't
even bother. It's very hard for people to get out of the Traditional
thinking of how children have to learn. I think it's a big shame!!!!
Patti
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
SandraDodd@... writes:
> My kids know they can learn things on their own. They learned to read, justThis seems to be very hard for people to understand. They always tell me
> by asking questions, watching people read, being read to, goofing around
> with
> words, seeing words everywhere, on signs, packages, videos (subtitles or
> read-along words), clothing... and because they DID learn to read without
> having lessons and a "reading method," they have no fear whatsoever of
> learning anything else. They're not waiting for me to teach them the next
> thing
"You must work with your kids". I always tell them it's never work. I don't
"teach" them anything. I also get well what curriculum do you use or what
pre-school do your kids go to? We don't use any curriculum, nor do I intend
to ever do that unless my kid or kids have a strong desire to do so. They
don't attend pre-school and never will attend school, unless they decide they
want to go to school. I get a lot of stares and weird looks when I tell them
that I'm not using any curriculum, do not have nor will never have lesson
plans, tests or a schedule. This really frightens people. I've explained
how my family will live to people who are important to me, others I don't
even bother. It's very hard for people to get out of the Traditional
thinking of how children have to learn. I think it's a big shame!!!!
Patti
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/03 9:26:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
to avoid them. That's very different from self-control.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> But my friend, who is strict with her kids and pushes them...now thatNo, they've only learned the external parent given consequences and decided
> they're not little children anymore, they exhibit self-control. It
> started out as parent-led behavioral management (if you will) and now
> they govern their own selves
to avoid them. That's very different from self-control.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/03 9:26:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
self-control, MADE to learn as if they wouldn't otherwise, controlled until
they can control themselves.
The children you refer to haven't learned self control, they are simply doing
as they are told.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> What I'm saying is, giving children a scheduled, structuredBut it comes from the basic viewpoint that children need to be TOLD how to
> upbringing doesn't equate with disrespect or even lack of freedom.
>
>
self-control, MADE to learn as if they wouldn't otherwise, controlled until
they can control themselves.
The children you refer to haven't learned self control, they are simply doing
as they are told.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Heidi <[email protected]>
> No, they've only learned the external parent given consequences anddecided
> to avoid them. That's very different from self-control.Yes, to start with. I'd agree with that. But these kids are
definitely self-governing. Especially the grown daughter, and the 18
year old son, both of whom have had opportunities galore, to go
haywire, and have not done so. The 11 year old, well, she's young and
still staying close to home. But the son, his education has led him
to leadership positions that require him to travel. He has been in
Washington D.C. NOT with a chaperoned group of high schoolers, but on
his own, to receive an award. I think he had some friends with him,
and probably there were other high school kids receiving this award,
too (it's given out to 200 seniors in America) who were there. there
was stuff going on that would be defined as foolish or wrong...and he
just wasn't interested. The kid is self-educating at this point, and
in a couple of classes at the high school, and is doing wonderfully.
The other day, my friend found out AFTER the fact,that he had given a
speech to the mayor and some other dignitaries of her town...and she
got on his case about not telling her about it.
Sure, there'd be consequences if he chose foolish things, but my
point is, he's doing great things even when his mommy isn't looking.
peace, Heidi
Debra Hartrum-Disciples Now
I am not sure I properly introduced myself since nobody has responded to my
posts. My name is Deb and I have four sons, Kris (19), Dustin (17), Adam
(14), and Jameson (11). I have been married to hubby for 20 years and we
now live in NC. I went back to school when my boys were very small and did
undergraduate work in religious studies. I finished my graduate work in
Princeton where I noticed many of my professors home schooled their children
(9 year olds frequented my Hebrew and Greek classes regularly). I decided I
might try this method of education since I was home during the day most of
the time. My oldest was 13 at the time and had been in a Catholic school
until then. Maybe I started to late with the older two because they are not
nearly as adjusted as the younger two.
My sisters always comment on my against the grain mental state and most of
my family considers me a renegade idealist from outer space. I tend to take
my multigrain liberalism to heart and look for methods of escape from
mainstream reality daily.
I am home schooling for many reasons but one thing clearly stands out in
regard to mainstream education. This country could not sustain the model of
economy it does without the conformist model if education used in the
mainstream system. The worker ant mentality sustains this country and allows
for 1% of mega wealth to stay in the niches it has been in for over two
hundred years.
I wanted my children learn from loving and nurturing experiences where
freedom is explored in the truest sense.
My downfall is something I cannot identify and perhaps this is due to the
confusion I have with my own expectations. My two older sons 17 and 19 are
not sure which is end is up. I thought providing them with choices and
unstructured learning might awaken a sense of exploration urging their
imaginations to new heights. It seems that peers do have influence and my
sons are moving toward a mainstream example of choice, in that, instead of
thinking they are just doing.
I wish I knew folks around here who had kids willing to take a step into an
uncharted realm of discovery, thinking about justice and peace.
I am in NC. Anybody nearby?
Deb
-----Original Message-----
From: Earthmomma67@... [mailto:Earthmomma67@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Training our kids/loving our kids
In a message dated 1/15/03 9:26:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
self-control, MADE to learn as if they wouldn't otherwise, controlled until
they can control themselves.
The children you refer to haven't learned self control, they are simply
doing
as they are told.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
posts. My name is Deb and I have four sons, Kris (19), Dustin (17), Adam
(14), and Jameson (11). I have been married to hubby for 20 years and we
now live in NC. I went back to school when my boys were very small and did
undergraduate work in religious studies. I finished my graduate work in
Princeton where I noticed many of my professors home schooled their children
(9 year olds frequented my Hebrew and Greek classes regularly). I decided I
might try this method of education since I was home during the day most of
the time. My oldest was 13 at the time and had been in a Catholic school
until then. Maybe I started to late with the older two because they are not
nearly as adjusted as the younger two.
My sisters always comment on my against the grain mental state and most of
my family considers me a renegade idealist from outer space. I tend to take
my multigrain liberalism to heart and look for methods of escape from
mainstream reality daily.
I am home schooling for many reasons but one thing clearly stands out in
regard to mainstream education. This country could not sustain the model of
economy it does without the conformist model if education used in the
mainstream system. The worker ant mentality sustains this country and allows
for 1% of mega wealth to stay in the niches it has been in for over two
hundred years.
I wanted my children learn from loving and nurturing experiences where
freedom is explored in the truest sense.
My downfall is something I cannot identify and perhaps this is due to the
confusion I have with my own expectations. My two older sons 17 and 19 are
not sure which is end is up. I thought providing them with choices and
unstructured learning might awaken a sense of exploration urging their
imaginations to new heights. It seems that peers do have influence and my
sons are moving toward a mainstream example of choice, in that, instead of
thinking they are just doing.
I wish I knew folks around here who had kids willing to take a step into an
uncharted realm of discovery, thinking about justice and peace.
I am in NC. Anybody nearby?
Deb
-----Original Message-----
From: Earthmomma67@... [mailto:Earthmomma67@...]
Sent: Wednesday, January 15, 2003 9:36 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Unschooling-dotcom] Re: Training our kids/loving our kids
In a message dated 1/15/03 9:26:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
> What I'm saying is, giving children a scheduled, structuredBut it comes from the basic viewpoint that children need to be TOLD how to
> upbringing doesn't equate with disrespect or even lack of freedom.
>
>
self-control, MADE to learn as if they wouldn't otherwise, controlled until
they can control themselves.
The children you refer to haven't learned self control, they are simply
doing
as they are told.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
ADVERTISEMENT
HGTV Dream Home Giveaway
<http://rd.yahoo.com/M=241773.2861420.4212388.1925585/D=egroupweb/S=17050819
72:HM/A=1394045/R=0/*http://www.hgtv.com/hgtv/pac_ctnt/text/0,,HGTV_3936_580
2,FF.html>
~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email the
moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
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Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Julie Bogart <[email protected]>
--- In [email protected], "Debra
Hartrum-Disciples Now" <deb@d...> wrote:
I'm new too. Glad you're here.
Julie B
Hartrum-Disciples Now" <deb@d...> wrote:
> I am not sure I properly introduced myself since nobody hasresponded to my
> posts.Hi Deb.
>
I'm new too. Glad you're here.
Julie B
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/15/03 7:26:25 AM, bunsofaluminum60@... writes:
<< These are stellar children, too. Into life, self-confident, obedient. >>
"Obedient" doesn't fit my idea of "stellar," but then again you said
"children."
Will they be obedient adults?
I like to see my own children being people. I don't like to think of them as
"good children" but as whole people.
And I *DO* know two things:
that this will irritate some Christians
and
that this is true:
It is the goal of some churches to produce obedient adults.
Sandra
<< These are stellar children, too. Into life, self-confident, obedient. >>
"Obedient" doesn't fit my idea of "stellar," but then again you said
"children."
Will they be obedient adults?
I like to see my own children being people. I don't like to think of them as
"good children" but as whole people.
And I *DO* know two things:
that this will irritate some Christians
and
that this is true:
It is the goal of some churches to produce obedient adults.
Sandra
bluelotus
<< What I'm saying is, giving children a scheduled, structured
upbringing doesn't equate with disrespect or even lack of freedom.>>
Perhaps some structure is good for the whole family, not just for the kids. But most of the time it seems that kids have no chance to question it, it's a given that things are a certain way and that's it. There are no options. In that sense, there is no freedom to speak of. And if there is no freedom, there is no respect either. The disrespect becomes evident, IMO, when kids are not given options to choose how to learn things in life, because so many other things are more important than their individual process (appearances, parents' desires, family traditions, cultural conformity, etc.).
<< I still maintain, it's the relationship that makes the difference.
Kids thrive in a place where they are loved, whether they are
strictly raised or more permissively raised. >>
Children thrive where they are loved AND respected and heard, and can freely choose. If you don't give them the freedom to choose, how can you tell they're thriving?
It's like saying your kids love potatoes when you only give them potatoes.
Kids'own nature is to love. I've seen parents destroy even that, not because parents don't love them, but because they don't realize how suppressive their attitudes can be. So, they grow up resenting their parents and feeling guilty about it at the same time.
<<If you don't have your child's heart, you will never have genuine obedience.>>
If you want obedience from your kids, your thoughts may be right. If you want a more wholesome, harmonious and natural relationship, then you need to give them freedom and respect first and foremost.
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
upbringing doesn't equate with disrespect or even lack of freedom.>>
Perhaps some structure is good for the whole family, not just for the kids. But most of the time it seems that kids have no chance to question it, it's a given that things are a certain way and that's it. There are no options. In that sense, there is no freedom to speak of. And if there is no freedom, there is no respect either. The disrespect becomes evident, IMO, when kids are not given options to choose how to learn things in life, because so many other things are more important than their individual process (appearances, parents' desires, family traditions, cultural conformity, etc.).
<< I still maintain, it's the relationship that makes the difference.
Kids thrive in a place where they are loved, whether they are
strictly raised or more permissively raised. >>
Children thrive where they are loved AND respected and heard, and can freely choose. If you don't give them the freedom to choose, how can you tell they're thriving?
It's like saying your kids love potatoes when you only give them potatoes.
Kids'own nature is to love. I've seen parents destroy even that, not because parents don't love them, but because they don't realize how suppressive their attitudes can be. So, they grow up resenting their parents and feeling guilty about it at the same time.
<<If you don't have your child's heart, you will never have genuine obedience.>>
If you want obedience from your kids, your thoughts may be right. If you want a more wholesome, harmonious and natural relationship, then you need to give them freedom and respect first and foremost.
Yol
--
Blue Lotus Therapeutics -
Ayurveda, Homeopathy, Yoga & Therapeutic Massage
http://www.bluelotustherapeutics.com
Dhyanyoga Center of NC -
Meditation - Kundalini Maha Yoga
http://www.dyc-nc.org
**********************************
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone. The world is ruled by
letting things take their course. It cannot be ruled by interfering.
-- Tao Te Ching
**********************************
[email protected]
On Wed, 15 Jan 2003 11:58:31 EST SandraDodd@... writes:
Wende
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> It is the goal of some churches to produce obedient adults.And of government schools, imo
Wende
________________________________________________________________
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Fetteroll
on 1/15/03 9:58 AM, Heidi <bunsofaluminum60@...> at
bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:
needs and desires and outlooks as their parents, then rules are going to
sound more like sensible advice than roped off forbidden territory.
I was a "good" kid because I didn't really want to do any of the things
parents need to forbid their kids from doing. We weren't close in a
confiding way, don't recall any discussions about values though I know I was
"spoken to" if I did something wrong. I wanted to be good so I figured out
what was considered good and did that. (Which makes the end of Grease really
irritating for me because the Hollywood message is too often that being good
means you're repressing who you really are.)
But if a kid has the heart of a heavy metal rock star, what will rules about
the "right way" to grow up and a close relationship with his parents do to
him? What choices does it give him? Will he suppress who he is and do what's
"right" according to his parents? Will he rebel? Will he try to change their
minds about what the meaning of "right" is?
If they're "model kids" then I suspect it's more because their parents got
lucky in the genes department than because they had rules.
Joyce
bunsofaluminum60@... wrote:
> But these kids areProbably has a lot to do with personality. If kids naturally have similar
> definitely self-governing. Especially the grown daughter, and the 18
> year old son, both of whom have had opportunities galore, to go
> haywire, and have not done so.
needs and desires and outlooks as their parents, then rules are going to
sound more like sensible advice than roped off forbidden territory.
I was a "good" kid because I didn't really want to do any of the things
parents need to forbid their kids from doing. We weren't close in a
confiding way, don't recall any discussions about values though I know I was
"spoken to" if I did something wrong. I wanted to be good so I figured out
what was considered good and did that. (Which makes the end of Grease really
irritating for me because the Hollywood message is too often that being good
means you're repressing who you really are.)
But if a kid has the heart of a heavy metal rock star, what will rules about
the "right way" to grow up and a close relationship with his parents do to
him? What choices does it give him? Will he suppress who he is and do what's
"right" according to his parents? Will he rebel? Will he try to change their
minds about what the meaning of "right" is?
If they're "model kids" then I suspect it's more because their parents got
lucky in the genes department than because they had rules.
Joyce
Fetteroll
on 1/15/03 10:48 AM, Debra Hartrum-Disciples Now at deb@...
wrote:
Society puts our interests at such a low priority that many of us get
trained to want what we're supposed to do. We end up thinking we want to go
to college and get a good job because that's what we've been told we should
want. And we've practiced pushing what we really want to the background for
when we have nothing else important to do, that we can't give an honest
priority to the what we really want.
Some books that might help them break through all that training *if* they
want to are:
The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and
Education (1998 edition) by Grace Llewellyn
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962959170/qid=984827128/sr=1-1/ref=
sc_b_2/102-3006399-8134511)
Also Real Lives by Grace too.
Teenagers¹ Guide to School Outside the Box by Rebecca Greene
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575420872/qid=1018774834/sr=2-1/ref
=sr_2_1/102-2406057-8608930)
The Uncollege Alternative: Your Guide to Incredible Careers and Amazing
Adventures Outside College by Danielle Wood.
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060393084/qid=1038831855/sr=
8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-7758784-1344702?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
What about taking them each on their own out to dinner and share hopes and
dreams and things you love? Maybe talk about some dreams of your own you
felt you needed to put on hold to do what you were "supposed to". The
message would be even stronger if you were actively seeking out ways to
pursue those dreams :-)
Joyce
wrote:
> My two older sons 17 and 19 areIt can be an unfortunately effect of school.
> not sure which is end is up. I thought providing them with choices and
> unstructured learning might awaken a sense of exploration urging their
> imaginations to new heights. It seems that peers do have influence and my
> sons are moving toward a mainstream example of choice, in that, instead of
> thinking they are just doing.
Society puts our interests at such a low priority that many of us get
trained to want what we're supposed to do. We end up thinking we want to go
to college and get a good job because that's what we've been told we should
want. And we've practiced pushing what we really want to the background for
when we have nothing else important to do, that we can't give an honest
priority to the what we really want.
Some books that might help them break through all that training *if* they
want to are:
The Teenage Liberation Handbook: How to Quit School and Get a Real Life and
Education (1998 edition) by Grace Llewellyn
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0962959170/qid=984827128/sr=1-1/ref=
sc_b_2/102-3006399-8134511)
Also Real Lives by Grace too.
Teenagers¹ Guide to School Outside the Box by Rebecca Greene
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1575420872/qid=1018774834/sr=2-1/ref
=sr_2_1/102-2406057-8608930)
The Uncollege Alternative: Your Guide to Incredible Careers and Amazing
Adventures Outside College by Danielle Wood.
(http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060393084/qid=1038831855/sr=
8-1/ref=sr_8_1/104-7758784-1344702?v=glance&s=books&n=507846)
What about taking them each on their own out to dinner and share hopes and
dreams and things you love? Maybe talk about some dreams of your own you
felt you needed to put on hold to do what you were "supposed to". The
message would be even stronger if you were actively seeking out ways to
pursue those dreams :-)
Joyce
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/17/03 3:47:31 AM, fetteroll@... writes:
<< I wanted to be good so I figured out
what was considered good and did that. (Which makes the end of Grease really
irritating for me because the Hollywood message is too often that being good
means you're repressing who you really are.) >>
I saw the end of Grease as the culmination of a story that started off saying
"Being a greaser is very cool."
Had it started off "Being straight and conservative is really cool" then it
would've ended the other way.
(I know you know that, but it was a piece of art centered around a car race,
not a neutral analysis of teen development.)
American Grafitti. Car race with Harrison Ford. I should rent that and
watch it again...
Kids have started drag racing. It goes in phases, like frisbees and
hackeysacks, but we're in a drag-race phase, and they use Juan Tabo, a
six-lane behind our house, in the middle of the night when it's empty. Very
scary to hear. I don't like car racing, but I like Harrison Ford.
Sandra
<< I wanted to be good so I figured out
what was considered good and did that. (Which makes the end of Grease really
irritating for me because the Hollywood message is too often that being good
means you're repressing who you really are.) >>
I saw the end of Grease as the culmination of a story that started off saying
"Being a greaser is very cool."
Had it started off "Being straight and conservative is really cool" then it
would've ended the other way.
(I know you know that, but it was a piece of art centered around a car race,
not a neutral analysis of teen development.)
American Grafitti. Car race with Harrison Ford. I should rent that and
watch it again...
Kids have started drag racing. It goes in phases, like frisbees and
hackeysacks, but we're in a drag-race phase, and they use Juan Tabo, a
six-lane behind our house, in the middle of the night when it's empty. Very
scary to hear. I don't like car racing, but I like Harrison Ford.
Sandra