Stephanie Elms

OK. It has been about 3 months since we stopped limiting Jason's (6 yo) junk food. I want to say
up front that I have not given up...I do believe that this will work. But I really could
use some advice here. I honestly felt pretty good about giving up this restriction...
Jason has always been a picky eater but we have never been overly controlling about
food (we never forced him to eat what he did not like or force him to eat certain amounts).
But we did limit junk food. I expected binging which is what we got. What I did not expect
was for him to start eating less healthy food. He used to always eat a great breakfast...
french toast, scrambled eggs, oatmeal, pancakes, lots of options. Now he rarely eats
breakfast or just eats fruit chews or gold fish. Most days he eats maybe half a peanut
and jelly sandwich and the rest junk...chips, candy, ice cream etc. He used to eat
apples, nectarines, grapes, peaches, pears...maybe once a week he will eat 1 piece of
fruit. There were a couple of days where I did plead with him to eat *something*
nutritious...I still gave him the option, but really put on the pressure...not
overly proud of it but it was killing me.

Recently I have been talking with him about trying to eat more healthy food...not
limiting junk food. I have told him that I have no problem with him eating as much
junk food as he wants, as long as he eats *some* healthy food. I have still left
it up to him, but he knows that this is an issue with me. Which is maybe why he
still hasn't stopped the binging? My biggest problem is that his choices of eating
terribly have resulted in him being difficult to be around. He is a very bouncy
boy to begin with...with a diet of mostly sugar he bounces off the walls somedays.
It makes it hard for him to go to sleep and since we don't *make* him go to sleep
he has been staying up until 11 or 12. Then the next day he is whiney and cranky
and generally hard to deal with.

So what exactly are the natural consequences of eating unhealthily? Mostly what I
have seen is crankiness, general disagreeableness, difficulty going to sleep and
I am the one having to deal with it. I will admit that I am at a loss on how
exactly to handle this...do I point it out (which seems to be creating another power
struggle...the only difference is that I am not making him listen to me, he still
gets to choose but he definitely knows that I am not happy). Do I just go about like
I don't care (which is not the truth)? How can I change my attitude about this...I need
fresh perspective....dh is ready to call this a failure. He is starting to lose
patience with Jason about it.

On a positive note, I have seen small signs of improvement...he has turned down cake. He did not
eat all his halloween candy. If Kyle gets candy, Jason does not always beg for some
too. Maybe I have just not let it go long enough? Or maybe I am doing something wrong?

And the reason that I am not stopping this experiment (as dh calls it) is because I told
Jason that I wouldn't and I have seen that it works great for Kyle (almost 3). He
definitely eats more junk food, but he still eats a varied diet and will ask for healthy
food when he wants it. He can drink soda, but his drink of choice is choc milk. I am
very pleasantly surprised at how well Kyle has been moderating himself and kicking myself
for how we handled Jason...we had not put any restrictions on him until he was around 2.5
or 3 yo...now we are trying to undo what 3 years of limitations has created...

Help!

Stephanie E.

[email protected]

Minor, but not so minor:
I don't see it as "unschooling."
There are similarities, but trusting a child to choose good foods isn't
unschooling.

When Keith and I still expected our kids would go to school "on schedule," we
weren't making or enforcing a bedtime, and were letting them eat food in
whatever order, not bugging them if they refused food, and letting them have
as much of it as they wanted.

In a message dated 1/13/03 9:36:30 PM, stephanie.elms@...
writes:

<< OK. It has been about 3 months since we stopped limiting Jason's (6 yo)
junk food. I want to say
up front that I have not given up...I do believe that this will work. >>

Three months isn't so long. And depending how strong the "rules" were, it
might take longer with some than others.

<<Now he rarely eats
breakfast or just eats fruit chews or gold fish. Most days he eats maybe half
a peanut
and jelly sandwich and the rest junk...chips, candy, ice cream etc.>>

Maybe change the array of available foods so there are new and different fun
things he hasn't tried. If you have the same stuff all the time, mix it up.
Don't replace ice cream and candy right away? Are you still making him
food? Can you find some dips for fruit that would make it fun and different?
Slice it up cute around a little dish of some kind of dip?

<<Recently I have been talking with him about trying to eat more healthy
food...not
limiting junk food. I have told him that I have no problem with him eating as
much
junk food as he wants, as long as he eats *some* healthy food.>>

It sounds like that would encourage him to eat MORE than he wanted to. To
add "healthy" food to "as much junk as he wants."

It reminds me of people dividing the world into educational and "just
playing" or "waste of time." It's not a good way to enable children to
choose what they actually like or want. If they know you consider some of it
"good for them" and the other "a waste," that might affect their decisions,
especially if there's any resentment or backlash.

Sandra

Heidi <[email protected]>

How about...filling the fridge with those fruits you mentioned?
Slicing cheese and making it available for snacking? My mil swears
that the only way to eat oatmeal is...in a cookie! L Oatmeal cookies
have fiber and egg and butter and raisins and nuts. Don't have the
junkfood as part of the staples of your pantry and fridge. Bring them
out for special occasions, even have a special occasion once a day!
Let him eat as much of what you provide, as he wants, and provide
wholesome stuff.

blessings, Heidi


--- In [email protected], "Stephanie Elms"
<stephanie.elms@d...> wrote:
> OK. It has been about 3 months since we stopped limiting Jason's (6
yo) junk food. I want to say
> up front that I have not given up...I do believe that this will
work. But I really could
> use some advice here. I honestly felt pretty good about giving up
this restriction...
> Jason has always been a picky eater but we have never been overly
controlling about
> food (we never forced him to eat what he did not like or force him
to eat certain amounts).
> But we did limit junk food. I expected binging which is what we
got. What I did not expect
> was for him to start eating less healthy food. He used to always
eat a great breakfast...
> french toast, scrambled eggs, oatmeal, pancakes, lots of options.
Now he rarely eats
> breakfast or just eats fruit chews or gold fish. Most days he eats
maybe half a peanut
> and jelly sandwich and the rest junk...chips, candy, ice cream etc.
He used to eat
> apples, nectarines, grapes, peaches, pears...maybe once a week he
will eat 1 piece of
> fruit. There were a couple of days where I did plead with him to
eat *something*
> nutritious...I still gave him the option, but really put on the
pressure...not
> overly proud of it but it was killing me.
>
> Recently I have been talking with him about trying to eat more
healthy food...not
> limiting junk food. I have told him that I have no problem with him
eating as much
> junk food as he wants, as long as he eats *some* healthy food. I
have still left
> it up to him, but he knows that this is an issue with me. Which is
maybe why he
> still hasn't stopped the binging? My biggest problem is that his
choices of eating
> terribly have resulted in him being difficult to be around. He is a
very bouncy
> boy to begin with...with a diet of mostly sugar he bounces off the
walls somedays.
> It makes it hard for him to go to sleep and since we don't *make*
him go to sleep
> he has been staying up until 11 or 12. Then the next day he is
whiney and cranky
> and generally hard to deal with.
>
> So what exactly are the natural consequences of eating unhealthily?
Mostly what I
> have seen is crankiness, general disagreeableness, difficulty going
to sleep and
> I am the one having to deal with it. I will admit that I am at a
loss on how
> exactly to handle this...do I point it out (which seems to be
creating another power
> struggle...the only difference is that I am not making him listen
to me, he still
> gets to choose but he definitely knows that I am not happy). Do I
just go about like
> I don't care (which is not the truth)? How can I change my attitude
about this...I need
> fresh perspective....dh is ready to call this a failure. He is
starting to lose
> patience with Jason about it.
>
> On a positive note, I have seen small signs of improvement...he has
turned down cake. He did not
> eat all his halloween candy. If Kyle gets candy, Jason does not
always beg for some
> too. Maybe I have just not let it go long enough? Or maybe I am
doing something wrong?
>
> And the reason that I am not stopping this experiment (as dh calls
it) is because I told
> Jason that I wouldn't and I have seen that it works great for Kyle
(almost 3). He
> definitely eats more junk food, but he still eats a varied diet and
will ask for healthy
> food when he wants it. He can drink soda, but his drink of choice
is choc milk. I am
> very pleasantly surprised at how well Kyle has been moderating
himself and kicking myself
> for how we handled Jason...we had not put any restrictions on him
until he was around 2.5
> or 3 yo...now we are trying to undo what 3 years of limitations has
created...
>
> Help!
>
> Stephanie E.

Mary Bianco

>From: "Stephanie Elms" <stephanie.elms@...>

<<OK. It has been about 3 months since we stopped limiting Jason's (6 yo)
junk food. I want to say
up front that I have not given up...I do believe that this will work. But I
really could
use some advice here. I honestly felt pretty good about giving up this
restriction...>>


Well 3 months isn't a really long time and you have admitted to some outward
behavior that goes against totally letting go. So in essence it hasn't even
been a total 3 months of total non restriction. Depending on the child and
the parent, it will take awhile for things to even out. And even then, some
kids are totally erratic anyway. My kids have such swings in their eating
habits it would drive me crazy if I worried. Some say to look at the week
and it will balance. Sometimes I would probably have to do it by months with
my kids!!

Next thing is to maybe not have so much "junk" food available. Just because
you don't want to restrict doesn't mean you have to have tons of junk
available all the time. If you run out, say so and offer what else you have
available. If your child asks for more to be replaced, you can promise to
get it the next time you go shopping. I also find what works well with my
kids is to just put certain foods out and if it's there, they will eat it. I
don't do this as a trick but more as conveniece for me if I have things to
do and would like the flow not to ber broken with getting 3 kids 3 different
foods and 3 different times. I'll put out a bowl or plate of whatever and
most of the time, someone eats most of what's there. You can do that with
fruit or whatever you like. Kids love finger foods and my kids love to dip
stuff. Their dip of choice is creamy white, which is ranch dressing. They
put it on stuff I can't even stomach to think about. Not sure where it came
from as I hate the stuff!!!! They also like cheese dip and recently salsa.
My kids also like to eat things with toothpicks. I buy the fancy colored
plastic ones and they love that too. Make it fun and different. Cut shapes
and offer little bowls of different things.

Just hang in there, which it seems like you want to do anyway and it will
work out fine. Good luck with being patient!!!


Mary B


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Julie Bogart <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], "Stephanie
Elms" <stephanie.elms@d...> wrote: I am
> very pleasantly surprised at how well Kyle has been
moderating himself and kicking myself
> for how we handled Jason...we had not put any restrictions on
him until he was around 2.5
> or 3 yo...now we are trying to undo what 3 years of limitations
has created...
>
> Help!

Stephanie, I'm no expert on this kind of thing, but I grew up in a
household where my mom taught us to eat healthfully... and it
has stuck with all three kids. In our home, I just don't buy what I
don't want the kids to eat. There is no soda, no fruit chews, no
junk food. We make homemade cookies.

We are not manaichal about it. I do buy Doritos on sale
sometimes and we eat homemade maple syrup on pancakes
(which means 2 cups of sugar, some extract and water), they put
jam in their plain yogurt or mini chocolate chips.

But I never buy candy, never buy soda, never buy lunchables,
never buy stuff I don't want them to eat. And then we talk about
food and what it's made of, why some foods are healthier than
others. My dh is less nutritionally conscious than I am, but he is
adamant about limiting sugar intake for the reasons you
mentioned.

There is a huge fruit bowl out on the counter at all times. When
someone says, "I'm hungry" I point to the fruit bowl. Or they can
get some yogurt. Or make a piece of toast. Or eat some crackers
and cheese. Sometimes I hop up and just make a healthy
snack. The kids eat whatever is put before them when they're
hungry and I haven't made a big deal about foods being
taboo—just seen as occasional or every day.

So the times they eat sugar are for treats—after Halloween
(when I pay them to give up any candy—it's like a mini auction
and they love it!), at parties, when we are at a a buffet
restaurant...

My kids like candy like the next kid, but they don't crave it, don't
nag for it and eat it as a treat.

HTH,
Julie B

[email protected]

Stephanie,
Are you still making those yummy breakfasts? When my kids are choosing more
less-nutritious foods, I start making lunches and breakfasts that I feel
happy with, and THEN say, Lunch is ready! Usually they are happy that someone
made a meal and put it on the table so they eat it. (Not that it is so rare
to do so here) I cut up fruit and put it in front of them. I stop waiting for
them to tell me what they want and I just give them something. They are free
to turn it down and sometimes they do, but not usually.

*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 12:33:27 AM Eastern Standard Time,
SandraDodd@... writes:

> Maybe change the array of available foods so there are new and different fun
>
> things he hasn't tried. If you have the same stuff all the time, mix it
> up.
> Don't replace ice cream and candy right away? Are you still making him
> food? Can you find some dips for fruit that would make it fun and
> different?
> Slice it up cute around a little dish of some kind of dip?
>
>

In our frig the bottom shelf belongs to the boys. I put yogurt, cheese
sticks, carrots and juice there. I don't buy candy or chips, never have. I
also keep a lot of fruit on hand and try to vary the fruit, get pineapple
once a month, maybe a pomegranate or something a little different. I try to
keep food that they like and are easy for a child to get at without help.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

>>>In our home, I just don't buy what I
don't want the kids to eat. There is no soda, no fruit chews, no
junk food.<<<

I hear this all the time, but we have a HUGE glass bowl filled with M&Ms, a
bowl filled with Pistachios, and a bowl overflowing with shelled sunflower
seeds. (When there are NO guests in the house), guess which bowl needs
refilling the most? Sunflower seeds. When we have guests (adults OR
children!) the M&M bowl is emptied immediately!

The cupboard is always stocked with chips (potato and corn), crackers, and
candies. I bake a lot, so there is always brownies or cookies or a cake
nearby. The 'frig' is full of snacks. My boys LOVE cut up peppers, cukes, and
carrots with dip. Can't keep enough around. Weird fruits are popular---the
weirder, the better.

We always have Cokes and tea and fruit juices and chilled water and chocolate
milk. No one is chosen more often that the others.

Ice cream, two or three flavors.

Oddly, they pick and choose. They even go look in the cupboard (filled with
"junk food") and ask, "Don't we have ANYthing to eat?" <G> They COULD
literally sit and eat "junk" all day. They don't.

If all food is considered "equal" (not good or bad for you) I think more
"GOOD" food will be eaten because the BODY makes the choices, NOT the head.

I know a lot of kids whose food was restricted as toddlers/young children. As
SOON as they were able to make their own choices, they ate ONLY "junk".
Because they COULD. Mine make wise choices, because they CAN.

~Kelly

Julie Bogart <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a...
wrote:
> >>>In our home, I just don't buy what I
> don't want the kids to eat. There is no soda, no fruit chews, no
> junk food.<<<
>
> I hear this all the time, but we have a HUGE glass bowl filled
with M&Ms, a
> bowl filled with Pistachios, and a bowl overflowing with shelled
sunflower
> seeds. (When there are NO guests in the house), guess which
bowl needs
> refilling the most? Sunflower seeds. When we have guests
(adults OR
> children!) the M&M bowl is emptied immediately!

LOL. Well, I believe it. :) I guess the way I see it is that I'd rather
they enjoy the M&Ms on occasion at someone else's house. :)
>
> The cupboard is always stocked with chips (potato and corn),
crackers, and
> candies. I bake a lot, so there is always brownies or cookies or
a cake
> nearby. The 'frig' is full of snacks. My boys LOVE cut up
peppers, cukes, and
> carrots with dip. Can't keep enough around. Weird fruits are
popular---the
> weirder, the better.

Same here.
>
> We always have Cokes and tea and fruit juices and chilled
water and chocolate
> milk. No one is chosen more often that the others.

I don't want to spend the money as much as not wanting them
around.
>
> Ice cream, two or three flavors.

We do keep ice cream around for all those fun movie nights and
shakes.
>
> Oddly, they pick and choose. They even go look in the
cupboard (filled with
> "junk food") and ask, "Don't we have ANYthing to eat?" <G>
They COULD
> literally sit and eat "junk" all day. They don't.

I believe it.
>
> If all food is considered "equal" (not good or bad for you) I think
more
> "GOOD" food will be eaten because the BODY makes the
choices, NOT the head.

The main reason I can understand what you're syaing is having
lived in a sorority house. 25% of the girls had eating disorders.
They had lost touch with what their bodies wanted and were
driven by their heads.
>
> I know a lot of kids whose food was restricted as
toddlers/young children. As
> SOON as they were able to make their own choices, they ate
ONLY "junk".
> Because they COULD. Mine make wise choices, because they
CAN.

Yep. But I want to add that in my family of origin, learning about
healthy eating and having that as our primary diet has translated
into three adults who make healthy choices and don't pig out on
junk. So I guess I think the attitude must be key here.

When our kids are at a friend's house, I haven't noticed them
binging on junk. So perhaps we've struck some kind of balance
here too.

Thanks for another view!
Julie B

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/2003 8:49:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:
> . But I want to add that in my family of origin, learning about
> healthy eating and having that as our primary diet has translated
> into three adults who make healthy choices and don't pig out on
> junk. So I guess I think the attitude must be key here.


Maybe. But also if there is no "junk food" in the house, how can you pig out
on it?

> When our kids are at a friend's house, I haven't noticed them
> binging on junk. So perhaps we've struck some kind of balance
> here too.

Maybe. What if your friends don't keep junk? But what about when you're not
around watching? What if they were....HERE??? <G>

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 5:28:09 AM, julie@... writes:

<< My kids like candy like the next kid, but they don't crave it, don't

nag for it and eat it as a treat. >>

My kids like candy less than "the next kid," it seems.
Other kids come here, see it, and get excited because it's limited at their
house, but our kids mostly leave it sitting around because they don't think
it's as good as other things.

They don't even consider it a treat. I think that's a pretty cool and
amazing thing.

Sandra

Julie Bogart <[email protected]>

--- In [email protected], kbcdlovejo@a...
wrote:
> In a message dated 1/14/2003 8:49:00 AM Eastern Standard
Time,
> julie@b... writes:
> > . But I want to add that in my family of origin, learning about
> > healthy eating and having that as our primary diet has
translated
> > into three adults who make healthy choices and don't pig out
on
> > junk. So I guess I think the attitude must be key here.
>
>
> Maybe. But also if there is no "junk food" in the house, how can
you pig out
> on it?

I was meaning as adults (i.e. now that we can eat what we want
when we want we aren't any of us into junk food). But something
you said did make me pause. (Well all of it did, but I am still
sorting through all this so please don't yawn too noticably). <g>

When I did go to college, I still chose healthy foods, but I did get
into a cycle of overeating. And I battled the changes in my figure (I
was a very late bloomer) constantly. I wonder if there was a
residue of body stuff that got translated into the binging cycles.
Maybe...

Hmmm. More to think about.
>
> > When our kids are at a friend's house, I haven't noticed them
> > binging on junk. So perhaps we've struck some kind of
balance
> > here too.
>
> Maybe. What if your friends don't keep junk? But what about
when you're not
> around watching? What if they were....HERE??? <G>

LOL! Pass the M&Ms! :)

Thanks for your great thoughts.... Wondering if we dare keep
M&Ms handy for snacking...

Julie

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 8:49:02 AM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:

> I don't want to spend the money as much as not wanting them
> around.
> >
>

That is my thinking as well. Candy is so expensive. We do cook a lot. If
they feel like cookies we will make some. That is so much more fun. And I
have never thought of ring dings and Ho-Hos as food. Never even look at the
stuff, would rather make a cake myself. At least I know what is in that.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 6:38:05 AM, kbcdlovejo@... writes:

<< I bake a lot, so there is always brownies or cookies or a cake
nearby. >>

I made two big trays of brownies. The first tray went over about 30 hours.
I ate more than anyone. The second tray was untouched last night, so I cut
it up and put it in a plastic storage box.

I could put it out today, and I might, but the menu today besides birthday
cake is Marty's request:
croissants (bought) and stuff to put in them for sandwiches

so we're putting out ham, turkey, salmon
cream cheese with green chile
lettuce and tomatoes
pickles
cheese

devilled eggs (because Holly has lately come to love them)

chips and dip (Keith made the dip)

We have two homemade baquettes of cheese bread, which I'm going to slice
lengthwise and melt mozarella into, and then have spaghetti sauce out for
dipping. That will be "appetizer" (lunch) around 12:15, after which Marty
has games planned, and wants the main food at 3:30 or so. It's a
noon-to-dark-thirty party.


We didn't get candy or cheetos or anything like that, and none of the kids
who will be here will be unhappy (or even notice). Few of them even love
cake, although this one's a from-scratch fancy white cake (Marty's favorite)
which involved beating egg whites (generally more work than I love) and will
be three layers with homemade frosting (which I'll do in a few hours).

I expect the turkey and salmon to be gone before anything else.
Eggs next.

The age range of kids will be ten (if Adam shows) to eighteen, not counting
some adults.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 9:33:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
julie@... writes:

> Thanks for your great thoughts.... Wondering if we dare keep
> M&Ms handy for snacking...
>
>

The problem with eating the M&Ms wouldn't come from my chidlren it would come
from me. For me I can't keep junk in the house.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

> <<I bake a lot, so there is always brownies or cookies or a cake
> nearby. >>
>
>

When I bake it is usually because the boys want something and we make it
together. But the boys usually have one or two. One or two cookies, one
piece of cake etc. They are not sweet eaters. Not sure if they are just
like their father or they are in an environment without food rules. I end up
eating the rest of the cake or it gets thrown out. But my mother was a
reward by cake person and a "clean your plate" person. LOL
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 7:33:38 AM, julie@... writes:

<< Thanks for your great thoughts.... Wondering if we dare keep
M&Ms handy for snacking...
>>

At first they might just eat them all. But buy four pounds, and keep
refilling the bowl, and they'll probably get tired of them.

Halloween is one of the best tests for people wanting to stop being the
food-controllers for their kids. If kids eat two candies a day, or whatever,
they can manage to eat every bit of it, even stuff they don't like. If they
try to eat it all at once, lots will end up in the trash or they'll get to
the point that they don't want to see it for the rest of the week, or year.

We have an advantage, having done this way always (thanks in part to an
article in Mothering Magazine many years ago, and because my husband binges
and I didn't want to do anything against which a binge would be reactionary,
hoping to help the kids avoid that). It has been many years since any child
here finished holiday candy (Christmas, Easter, Halloween) before the next
holiday rolled around. Often they end up throwing their stash away because
the outsides of the wrappers are getting dusty (New Mexico does that) and
they already have new candy from the last holiday, in a box lid or bowl
somewhere in their room. We never make a big deal about it one way or
another.

Kirby takes Red Vines with him to the anime convention he goes to. He took
two of the plastic buckets (from costco) of 200 or however many last year,
and they were gone in one day (he gives them out to anyone who comes and
asks). Last year and this he's signed up to have his convention badge say
"Licorice Boy." So if any of you are at Nan Desu Kan in Denver this fall,
look for him. He'll probably take three or four buckets this year. When he
has an of that in his room at home, he'll eat one or two a day, if he
remembers, and it will get hard before it gets gone. Unless he has a lot of
company.

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 8:11:47 AM, genant2@... writes:

<< And I
have never thought of ring dings and Ho-Hos as food. >>

We've never had any of those here.

I did want to point out the over-use of "junk food" in this thread and in
general life. I think ho-hos are prob'ly junk food. But not all imperfect
or B-string or whatever food is "junk." I think it needs to be nearly no
nutritional value whatsoever to be junk. Grilled salmon is better than a
Burger King fish sandwich, but when I'm getting a protein-deprivation
implosion coming on, a drive through fish sandwich is the perfect antidote to
my having forgotten to eat well.

Sandra

Sandra

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 8:22:30 AM, genant2@... writes:

<< The problem with eating the M&Ms wouldn't come from my chidlren it would
come
from me. For me I can't keep junk in the house. >>

It's not too late to learn self control. <g>

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/2003 10:30:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,
genant2@... writes:
> When I bake it is usually because the boys want something and we make it
> together. But the boys usually have one or two. One or two cookies, one
> piece of cake etc. They are not sweet eaters. Not sure if they are just
> like their father or they are in an environment without food rules. I end
> up
> eating the rest of the cake or it gets thrown out. But my mother was a
> reward by cake person and a "clean your plate" person. LOL
> Pam G.

Ben and I were both members of the "clean plate club". Both our mothers STILL
force feed children. (AND withhold food!) So do Ben's siblings. Horribly.

My father, my brother, Ben, and Cameron have no "sweet teeth". My mother,
Duncan and I DO! Nature? Nurture? ???

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/2003 10:48:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> The problem with eating the M&Ms wouldn't come from my chidlren it would
> come
> from me. For me I can't keep junk in the house. >>
>
> It's not too late to learn self control. <g>
>
And REALLY---if you have a HUGE bowl there all the time (must be constantly
refilled and never empty) you'll be SO surprised at how little you'll
EVENTUALLY eat. But just like the kids, don't expect it to happen all at
once!

~Kelly


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[email protected]

I have been thinking about this food issue for a while now. My 2 girls
will pretty much eat any fruits or vegetables that they grow and pick. So
during the summer time they eat plenty of strawberries, blackberries,
peaches, cherries, pears, apples, and a variety of garden vegetables.
They are not all too interested in junk food, and I don't bake that much
in the summertime. The winter time is a different story. They will eat
some store bought fruits and veggies, but only if they are fresh, ie: no
canned or frozen. They don't even care for the fruits or veggies that we
canned ourselves. But they do tend to fill up on junk food all winter. I
try to buy junk food of the healthful sorts, with no artificial colors or
flavors, no MSG, low fat, low amount of refined sugar, and do bake a lot.
And herein lies the problem. The oldest is starting to get pretty chunky.
It may be just a stage thing (she's 5), but I don't want it to become a
health problem. I was wondering, do all of you who let your children eat
whatever they want have concerns for their childrens' weight? And I am
not talking from a societal view, but a health view. I know that lack of
exercise during the winter months is also a contributing factor, and I
have seen some of the weight come off during the summer months, but never
the same amount that was put on. Is this something I should be concerned
about? How do you all handle the unhealthy aspect of allowing your
children to eat whatever they want?
Wende

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[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 11:30:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
kbcdlovejo@... writes:

> And REALLY---if you have a HUGE bowl there all the time (must be constantly
> refilled and never empty) you'll be SO surprised at how little you'll
> EVENTUALLY eat. But just like the kids, don't expect it to happen all at
> once!
>
>

I know from November through December I always keep a candy dish of the
green and red M&Ms at the house. I just cannot deal with it. I would eat
until they were gone and the store was closed. LOL.
Pam G.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The Robbins' Nest

<<<<<<<<<<> The problem with eating the M&Ms wouldn't come from my chidlren it would
> come
> from me. For me I can't keep junk in the house. >>
>
> It's not too late to learn self control. <g>
>
And REALLY---if you have a HUGE bowl there all the time (must be constantly
refilled and never empty) you'll be SO surprised at how little you'll
EVENTUALLY eat. But just like the kids, don't expect it to happen all at
once!

~Kelly
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Well, it hasn't quite happened for me yet. I chose peanut M&Ms for my substitute for smoking last year. It took about 6 months of binging(and about 20 lbs.) for me to quit craving them (or cigarettes).

I was one of those kids who was severely (imo) restricted regarding junk food. We could not have sugary cereals (always had to be Cheerios, Rice Crispies, Chex), no kind of Little Debbie's or snacky cake type stuff, pretzels--no chips, and we couldn't even chew gum. I remember vividly when I was about 10 or 11 going through my mother's old discarded purses for any forgotten sugar free gum that she might have had stashed for herself (she didn't share either).

As soon as I was old enough to walk to the store, my main allowance expenses were 1 large bag of Doritoes, 1 box of Little Debbie's (Swiss Cake Rolls is my all time fav.), and a 45 RPM record. I would go to my room, listen to my new music and eat, and eat, and eat. I felt like I was really getting away with something. My mother didn't know about it or she probably would have found a way to stop my indulgences. I ended up gaining about 30 lbs. in Jr. High School due to this bad habit. I still haven't conquered this need to 'treat' myself whenever I want.

On the other hand, I have a friend who was allowed all kinds of junk to eat and she ended up gaining a lot of weight too........so I guess poor eating habits happen for different reasons for different people but for me it was definitely the restriction that led to the bingeing.

For my kids, I try so hard to model good eating behaviors but it's still hard not to want to eat crap all the time. They are allowed pretty much whatever they want but I have always limited quantities. Such as, only 1 snack cake a day, 1 soda a day, chips only with a sandwich (or a meal) instead of allowing them to snack on them at will. I have even relaxed these 'rules'( maybe about 4-5 months ago) and I have already noticed a difference in their eating. My daughter biggest request from the store this week was canned spinach (yuck!). My son's was celery.

Kimber


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Fetteroll

on 1/14/03 10:20 AM, genant2@... at genant2@... wrote:

> The problem with eating the M&Ms wouldn't come from my chidlren it would come
> from me. For me I can't keep junk in the house.

It takes longer for adults. Perhaps because we've purposely denied ourselves
for so long? But after 3 or 4 large bags of M&Ms you *can* leave them alone
;-)

Joyce

[email protected]

In a message dated 1/14/03 12:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
love-it-here@... writes:

> I was wondering, do all of you who let your children eat
> whatever they want have concerns for their childrens' weight? And I am
> not talking from a societal view, but a health view.

My oldest son (raised by dad and stepmom for 12 years, family is conservative
christian and "training" their children - you get the idea) is overweight.
His food intake has been restricted and regulated for his whole life. No
seconds at the dinner table, he could only eat as much as the adults.
He used to sneak upstairs to their kitchen after everyone was asleep, and
eat. He told me it was because there was no one there to tell him not to, so
he would take advantage of that. He could finally eat in peace. He just came
in and told me that he would wake up at 4:00 in the morning to do this, then
go back to bed after he ate a couple sandwiches.
Sad. After being here for almost 4 months, he doesn't have to do this
anymore. Once he realized I wasn't going to restrict him, he didn't have to
sneak.
It breaks my heart to think of the hurt I didn't see.
*~*Elissa Jill*~*
unschooling Momma to 3 beautiful brilliant people
Loving partner for life to Joey
terrible guitarist, fair singer and happy woman.


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Rachel Ann

I was wondering, do all of you who let your children eat
whatever they want have concerns for their children's weight? And I am
not talking from a societal view, but a health view. I know that lack of
exercise during the winter months is also a contributing factor, and I
have seen some of the weight come off during the summer months, but never
the same amount that was put on. Is this something I should be concerned
about? How do you all handle the unhealthy aspect of allowing your
children to eat whatever they want?
Wende


Wende, I find that allowing them to eat what they want when they want
actually helps keep the weight down. I do, on occasion say; okay to the
cookies, but then something nutritional, if they've been going at cookies
and candies a lot over a set period of time, but most of the time, they ask
for something, and if we have it they get it. My worry is actually the
opposite; mine are all on the small side.

FWIW, most of the children who I see who are overweight are from the
regulated, clean your plate, dessert after more nutritional food (one mom
wouldn't let her child have more blueberries until she had more veggies or
chicken, can't remember which. Because blueberries were sweet and she wanted
her to not be so use to sweet tastes.)

I look at it this way; if you have a cookie and a sandwich, you are getting
the cookies from both. If all you want is a cookie, that is all the
calories you are going to get. What eating a good meal before dessert does
is train the body to eat more than it is hungry for in order to satiate the
taste buds. If you satisfy both your physical/emotional and sensory needs
with one thing, then you are not adding more food into your body than you
want.

be well,
Rachel Ann
mom to one sick little girl (Tehila, my 3.5 threw up 3x---last time on
breast milk) so if I'm rambling that is why...well, that is what I'm saying
is why, it may or may not really be true.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Mary Bianco

<<In a message dated 1/14/03 12:11:26 PM Eastern Standard Time,
love-it-here@... writes:

<<I was wondering, do all of you who let your children eat whatever they
want have concerns for their childrens' weight? And I am not talking from a
societal view, but a health view.>>


I'm not sure but I would guess maybe one needs to look at the family
history. Some families just have large people in them no matter how they
eat.

I really have no one on my families side that is heavy. My husband really
doesn't either but I have seen one aunt put on the weight and his sisters
tend to be a bit overwweight but I wouldn't say large.

Our oldest, (not my husbands biological daughter) comes from a very
overweight family. They are always dieting and always big. As in fat big.
Once I got away from her dad, I let her eat the way she wanted to. Her
sister, (me ex step daughter who I am very close to) is very overweight and
still has issues now at age 28. Tara was away from her dad and with my
husband now from age 4 on. She is not overweight at all. I don't worry about
her getting that way and she doesn't diet, although she'll have the same
anxiety pains every once in awhile that most 17 year old girls have like,
"does my stomach look fat in this outfit?" She's a lot better now than she
was even a year ago. The Oprah show helped that a lot and she is pretty well
pleased with herself now.

Our other 3 children are not even looking like I have to worry about weight.
My 8 yr old Joseph is downright skinny. Of course pictures of me at that age
show the same incredibly skinny legs!!! The two younger girls are not big at
all. The kids all wear sizes of their ages and most a year younger even.

So although there is potential there for them to possibly have a problem, I
don't worry or see it at all.

Mary B


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Elissa Jill,

I know that sometimes there are a lot of psychological attachments to
food. I know of one set of parents who were obese themselves, who
literally starved their child to the point where he could not properly
digest his food, and eventually died, because of their fears of him
becoming overweight. I know another family, a rather large one with 11
children, have the "first one at the table gets the most food" attitude,
and it is not very fun watching them eat like scavengers till every last
morsel is gone. These eating habits follow them all through life. I'm
just wondering, did your son sneak food because he was actually hungry?
You said he would sneak down when we could eat in peace. Was he actually
finding peace in eating? Now that he has a choice, does he eat more
nutritious foods only when he is hungry? I ask, because my daughter seems
to be a muncher. She wants to eat all day long, but won't really eat much
at a sit down meal. I was not that concerned about it, but it seems to be
getting to the point where she can't go anywhere or do anything without a
snack. A box of raisins for the 5 minute car ride, crackers while
watching a tape, granola bar while she is painting, etc.etc. I'll will
ask her if she is hungry and she will tell me no. It is like she is
munching for the sake of munching. I don't want her to start bad habits
she will have problems braking later, but I don't want to deprive her
either. Is this just a stage?
Wende

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Heidi <[email protected]>

I'd love to see the input on this one, because I have a little girl
chunking up, too. Only her chubiness started this summer, when her
appetite EXPLODED! She's really active...my goer, my non-stopper,
night owl, explorer, gonna give her momma a heart attack, afraid of
nothing but spiders...and so I haven't worried about her, but
there's definitely a baby fat look to her round little face and
plump belly. Who is the artist who painted mothers and children,
where there's a little girl getting in a tub of water and her mother
hovering behind her...that little girl's belly looks just like my
Katie's.

I haven't ever stopped her from eating how much she wants. Heck, my
boy eats like a dad-blasted bird, tall and skinny, and I never push
more food on him. The dinner table has always been pretty much a
free zone. Eat until you're full. If I don't push MORE food on
Robby, I know it would be wrong to try and stop Katie from eating.

It isn't junky food, either. We don't have much of that sort of
stuff in the house. Box of mac n cheese once in awhile. Just lots of
the wholesome stuff, with frequent treats.

Heidi



I was wondering, do all of you who let your children eat
> whatever they want have concerns for their childrens' weight? And
I am
> not talking from a societal view, but a health view. I know that
lack of
> exercise during the winter months is also a contributing factor,
and I
> have seen some of the weight come off during the summer months,
but never
> the same amount that was put on. Is this something I should be
concerned
> about? How do you all handle the unhealthy aspect of allowing your
> children to eat whatever they want?
> Wende
>
> ________________________________________________________________
> Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
> Only $9.95 per month!
> Visit www.juno.com