Need help-- please!!
Brandi
This is long but please bear with me-- I need some help!
I'll start off by introducing myself. My name is Brandi. I'm a 30 year old stay-at-home mom of the most wonderfully intelligent, gorgeous children on the planet whom we adopted from Ukraine in 1999. They are both 5 years old, one boy, one girl, four months apart in age. They are currently enrolled in kindergarten. We lost a baby in 1998 and I am pregnant with our fourth child and due in June. You can learn more about me at my website: www.brandiland.com
We started the kids in a head start type program the last semester of last school year. I regret ever having introduced them to the school system because now it is *impossible* to unteach them the behaviors that they have learned from their peers whose parents fail to recognize polite, respectful means of expressing themselves (ok, was that nice enough and did it convey my point?? No? Ok, the kids were smarty pants, brats :-) We, once again, started them in this same school, different class (year-round Montessori school-- what a joke!) hoping they'd have a different experience. They both DETESTED it. They didn't like their teachers, they didn't like their peers, their environment was HOTTTT in the summer because of lack of air conditioning, etc. etc. etc. I heard about charter schools and began investigating them. I found a brand new one that had opened up and they had 2 spots for 2 kindergartners-- perfect! My kids were enrolled the following week. Let me preface this by saying that I used to work in the school systems as an interpreter for the Deaf. As a matter of fact, I worked at the *very* "Montessori" (ha, a joke) school my children initially started. This new charter school is, hands down, the best public school I've ever seen in my entire life. My son absotively has the best teacher I've ever met and he loves her to death.
Let me give a little background on my children. Firstly, my son, Coliya, is exceptionally gifted-- he's tested off the charts. We brought him home from Ukraine and he had some attachment issues related to abuse and neglect. He has come a VERY long way from a little boy who had no conscience, caring, genuine concern or feelings for anyone but himself to a boy who is respectful, empathetic, sensitive and just as selfish as any other 5 year old is :) (Yes, I'm patting myself on the back for this-- I can blow raspberries at all of the naysayers who disagreed with the methods I used to parent him INCLUDING my husband, initially!) Coliya is also hyperactive. To be perfectly honest, I think there's a *definite* connection to intelligence and the degree of one's perceived hyperactivity. Having said that, I'd still say he's hyperactive--- LOL. He's the most curious, quickest learner, who doesn't forget a thing, ever. Let's move to my daughter, Lyllia. Lyllia is "stuck" emotionally at about a 3 year old level. She's quite intelligent and very imaginative, she is just very emotionall immature "for her age" (comparing to the "norms", whatever those are!). She lives in her own little world, doing things at her own pace, as she pleases, IF she pleases, as the notion strikes her. This is in *everything* she does from schoolwork to getting dressed, to eating, to walking, to playing-- EVERYTHING. I've tried to change this behavior (don't yell at me-- I was ignorant then!) to no avail (OBVIOUSLY!) I have since learned that this is her and for me to even attempt to change this about her would be detrimental to her as a person. (It took me awhile to come around but, I did, finally!)
Enter my predicament. I am wanting to take Lyllia out of school because it's not working and it hasn't worked and it's not going to work because it just doesn't work for her. I also feel that I should take Coliya out, although it's working for him at least in theory, right now. I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. Can I tell you how much GUILT I feel about that??? I feel completely inadequate. Like any other mother on this list or in the world could take both of them out and be super-mom and I'm failing in so many ways! As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even STARTED the process!!! Should I take them both out and try this? Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently working for him? Should I just forget the whole thing altogether and keep it as it is? (Yeah, right!) I seriously think that if I took them both out to do it, I'd go insane :-) I wish I were kidding. But I will do anything, if it's best for my children.
My husband is a self-learner. He was unschooled his whole life. Of course, they didn't call it that back then. He was taken out of school to work for his family, to support them (he's only 35). The man is nothing short of a genius. His unschooling has made him far more capable than any of his counterparts in his field (engineering) however, he lacks a formal education which sometimes stands in his way. The strange part about this whole thing is, he has more doubts than me. Here's a man who is living proof that you don't have to "attend school" to develop your potential and to LEARN. Yet, he's scared about our daughter not "learning enough". "How will she learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?" "How will she learn to read?" "How will..." these are questions he continues to ask. And guess what? I don't have an answer for him because I don't have a clue. And I told him *just* that. He's supportive of me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn--- hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." I know that if he feels that I feel it's best, he will trust my judgment, at least for a little while, just to see how things go. I feel it certainly can't hurt. What we are doing right now isn't working so, trying something else couldn't work any LESS-- what do I have to lose?
So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper across their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry, I don't know the formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah, we are just going to see what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being facetious. I know that I have to put something under curriculum-- I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start with a 5 year old who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her, going back through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be her mommy. I think this will be *highly* beneficial based on the research I've been doing. But as far as "schooling" goes-- what approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me some direction. The question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and guide me? I'm really lost and I sincerely need help and I *really* want to make this work. I want to do what's right for my children.
Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this novel. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
Warmly,
Brandi, Jonathan & Baby Boo edd 6/26/03
angel m/c 8/98
Coliya & Lyllia, adopted from Ukraine in 1999 (both 5 years old now!)
www.brandiland.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
I'll start off by introducing myself. My name is Brandi. I'm a 30 year old stay-at-home mom of the most wonderfully intelligent, gorgeous children on the planet whom we adopted from Ukraine in 1999. They are both 5 years old, one boy, one girl, four months apart in age. They are currently enrolled in kindergarten. We lost a baby in 1998 and I am pregnant with our fourth child and due in June. You can learn more about me at my website: www.brandiland.com
We started the kids in a head start type program the last semester of last school year. I regret ever having introduced them to the school system because now it is *impossible* to unteach them the behaviors that they have learned from their peers whose parents fail to recognize polite, respectful means of expressing themselves (ok, was that nice enough and did it convey my point?? No? Ok, the kids were smarty pants, brats :-) We, once again, started them in this same school, different class (year-round Montessori school-- what a joke!) hoping they'd have a different experience. They both DETESTED it. They didn't like their teachers, they didn't like their peers, their environment was HOTTTT in the summer because of lack of air conditioning, etc. etc. etc. I heard about charter schools and began investigating them. I found a brand new one that had opened up and they had 2 spots for 2 kindergartners-- perfect! My kids were enrolled the following week. Let me preface this by saying that I used to work in the school systems as an interpreter for the Deaf. As a matter of fact, I worked at the *very* "Montessori" (ha, a joke) school my children initially started. This new charter school is, hands down, the best public school I've ever seen in my entire life. My son absotively has the best teacher I've ever met and he loves her to death.
Let me give a little background on my children. Firstly, my son, Coliya, is exceptionally gifted-- he's tested off the charts. We brought him home from Ukraine and he had some attachment issues related to abuse and neglect. He has come a VERY long way from a little boy who had no conscience, caring, genuine concern or feelings for anyone but himself to a boy who is respectful, empathetic, sensitive and just as selfish as any other 5 year old is :) (Yes, I'm patting myself on the back for this-- I can blow raspberries at all of the naysayers who disagreed with the methods I used to parent him INCLUDING my husband, initially!) Coliya is also hyperactive. To be perfectly honest, I think there's a *definite* connection to intelligence and the degree of one's perceived hyperactivity. Having said that, I'd still say he's hyperactive--- LOL. He's the most curious, quickest learner, who doesn't forget a thing, ever. Let's move to my daughter, Lyllia. Lyllia is "stuck" emotionally at about a 3 year old level. She's quite intelligent and very imaginative, she is just very emotionall immature "for her age" (comparing to the "norms", whatever those are!). She lives in her own little world, doing things at her own pace, as she pleases, IF she pleases, as the notion strikes her. This is in *everything* she does from schoolwork to getting dressed, to eating, to walking, to playing-- EVERYTHING. I've tried to change this behavior (don't yell at me-- I was ignorant then!) to no avail (OBVIOUSLY!) I have since learned that this is her and for me to even attempt to change this about her would be detrimental to her as a person. (It took me awhile to come around but, I did, finally!)
Enter my predicament. I am wanting to take Lyllia out of school because it's not working and it hasn't worked and it's not going to work because it just doesn't work for her. I also feel that I should take Coliya out, although it's working for him at least in theory, right now. I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. Can I tell you how much GUILT I feel about that??? I feel completely inadequate. Like any other mother on this list or in the world could take both of them out and be super-mom and I'm failing in so many ways! As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even STARTED the process!!! Should I take them both out and try this? Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently working for him? Should I just forget the whole thing altogether and keep it as it is? (Yeah, right!) I seriously think that if I took them both out to do it, I'd go insane :-) I wish I were kidding. But I will do anything, if it's best for my children.
My husband is a self-learner. He was unschooled his whole life. Of course, they didn't call it that back then. He was taken out of school to work for his family, to support them (he's only 35). The man is nothing short of a genius. His unschooling has made him far more capable than any of his counterparts in his field (engineering) however, he lacks a formal education which sometimes stands in his way. The strange part about this whole thing is, he has more doubts than me. Here's a man who is living proof that you don't have to "attend school" to develop your potential and to LEARN. Yet, he's scared about our daughter not "learning enough". "How will she learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?" "How will she learn to read?" "How will..." these are questions he continues to ask. And guess what? I don't have an answer for him because I don't have a clue. And I told him *just* that. He's supportive of me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn--- hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." I know that if he feels that I feel it's best, he will trust my judgment, at least for a little while, just to see how things go. I feel it certainly can't hurt. What we are doing right now isn't working so, trying something else couldn't work any LESS-- what do I have to lose?
So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper across their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry, I don't know the formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah, we are just going to see what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being facetious. I know that I have to put something under curriculum-- I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start with a 5 year old who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her, going back through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be her mommy. I think this will be *highly* beneficial based on the research I've been doing. But as far as "schooling" goes-- what approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me some direction. The question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and guide me? I'm really lost and I sincerely need help and I *really* want to make this work. I want to do what's right for my children.
Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this novel. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
Warmly,
Brandi, Jonathan & Baby Boo edd 6/26/03
angel m/c 8/98
Coliya & Lyllia, adopted from Ukraine in 1999 (both 5 years old now!)
www.brandiland.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Brandi <[email protected]>
This is long but please bear with me-- I need some help!
I'll start off by introducing myself. My name is Brandi. I'm a 30
year old stay-at-home mom of the most wonderfully intelligent,
gorgeous children on the planet whom we adopted from Ukraine in
1999. They are both 5 years old, one boy, one girl, four months
apart in age. They are currently enrolled in kindergarten. We lost
a baby in 1998 and I am pregnant with our fourth child and due in
June. You can learn more about me at my website: www.brandiland.com
We started the kids in a head start type program the last semester
of last school year. I regret ever having introduced them to the
school system because now it is *impossible* to unteach them the
behaviors that they have learned from their peers whose parents fail
to recognize polite, respectful means of expressing themselves (ok,
was that nice enough and did it convey my point?? No? Ok, the kids
were smarty pants, brats :-) We, once again, started them in this
same school, different class (year-round Montessori school-- what a
joke!) hoping they'd have a different experience. They both
DETESTED it. They didn't like their teachers, they didn't like
their peers, their environment was HOTTTT in the summer because of
lack of air conditioning, etc. etc. etc. I heard about charter
schools and began investigating them. I found a brand new one that
had opened up and they had 2 spots for 2 kindergartners-- perfect!
My kids were enrolled the following week. Let me preface this by
saying that I used to work in the school systems as an interpreter
for the Deaf. As a matter of fact, I worked at the
*very* "Montessori" (ha, a joke) school my children initially
started. This new charter school is, hands down, the best public
school I've ever seen in my entire life. My son absotively has the
best teacher I've ever met and he loves her to death.
Let me give a little background on my children. Firstly, my son,
Coliya, is exceptionally gifted-- he's tested off the charts. We
brought him home from Ukraine and he had some attachment issues
related to abuse and neglect. He has come a VERY long way from a
little boy who had no conscience, caring, genuine concern or
feelings for anyone but himself to a boy who is respectful,
empathetic, sensitive and just as selfish as any other 5 year old
is :) (Yes, I'm patting myself on the back for this-- I can blow
raspberries at all of the naysayers who disagreed with the methods I
used to parent him INCLUDING my husband, initially!) Coliya is also
hyperactive. To be perfectly honest, I think there's a *definite*
connection to intelligence and the degree of one's perceived
hyperactivity. Having said that, I'd still say he's hyperactive---
LOL. He's the most curious, quickest learner, who doesn't forget a
thing, ever. Let's move to my daughter, Lyllia. Lyllia is "stuck"
emotionally at about a 3 year old level. She's quite intelligent
and very imaginative, she is just very emotionall immature "for her
age" (comparing to the "norms", whatever those are!). She lives in
her own little world, doing things at her own pace, as she pleases,
IF she pleases, as the notion strikes her. This is in *everything*
she does from schoolwork to getting dressed, to eating, to walking,
to playing-- EVERYTHING. I've tried to change this behavior (don't
yell at me-- I was ignorant then!) to no avail (OBVIOUSLY!) I have
since learned that this is her and for me to even attempt to change
this about her would be detrimental to her as a person. (It took me
awhile to come around but, I did, finally!)
Enter my predicament. I am wanting to take Lyllia out of school
because it's not working and it hasn't worked and it's not going to
work because it just doesn't work for her. I also feel that I
should take Coliya out, although it's working for him at least in
theory, right now. I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle
unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. Can I tell
you how much GUILT I feel about that??? I feel completely
inadequate. Like any other mother on this list or in the world
could take both of them out and be super-mom and I'm failing in so
many ways! As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly
feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even
STARTED the process!!! Should I take them both out and try this?
Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently
working for him? Should I just forget the whole thing altogether
and keep it as it is? (Yeah, right!) I seriously think that if I
took them both out to do it, I'd go insane :-) I wish I were
kidding. But I will do anything, if it's best for my children.
My husband is a self-learner. He was unschooled his whole life. Of
course, they didn't call it that back then. He was taken out of
school to work for his family, to support them (he's only 35). The
man is nothing short of a genius. His unschooling has made him far
more capable than any of his counterparts in his field (engineering)
however, he lacks a formal education which sometimes stands in his
way. The strange part about this whole thing is, he has more doubts
than me. Here's a man who is living proof that you don't have
to "attend school" to develop your potential and to LEARN. Yet,
he's scared about our daughter not "learning enough". "How will she
learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?" "How will
she learn to read?" "How will..." these are questions he continues
to ask. And guess what? I don't have an answer for him because I
don't have a clue. And I told him *just* that. He's supportive of
me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he
said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn---
hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing
the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." I know that if he
feels that I feel it's best, he will trust my judgment, at least for
a little while, just to see how things go. I feel it certainly
can't hurt. What we are doing right now isn't working so, trying
something else couldn't work any LESS-- what do I have to lose?
So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper
across their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry,
I don't know the formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah,
we are just going to see what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being
facetious. I know that I have to put something under curriculum--
I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start with a 5 year old
who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as
attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her,
going back through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be
her mommy. I think this will be *highly* beneficial based on the
research I've been doing. But as far as "schooling" goes-- what
approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra
Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling
and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do
I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat
in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me
some direction. The question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and
guide me? I'm really lost and I sincerely need help and I *really*
want to make this work. I want to do what's right for my children.
Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this
novel. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
Warmly,
Brandi, Jonathan & Baby Boo edd 6/26/03
angel m/c 8/98
Coliya & Lyllia, adopted from Ukraine in 1999 (both 5 years old now!)
www.brandiland.com
I'll start off by introducing myself. My name is Brandi. I'm a 30
year old stay-at-home mom of the most wonderfully intelligent,
gorgeous children on the planet whom we adopted from Ukraine in
1999. They are both 5 years old, one boy, one girl, four months
apart in age. They are currently enrolled in kindergarten. We lost
a baby in 1998 and I am pregnant with our fourth child and due in
June. You can learn more about me at my website: www.brandiland.com
We started the kids in a head start type program the last semester
of last school year. I regret ever having introduced them to the
school system because now it is *impossible* to unteach them the
behaviors that they have learned from their peers whose parents fail
to recognize polite, respectful means of expressing themselves (ok,
was that nice enough and did it convey my point?? No? Ok, the kids
were smarty pants, brats :-) We, once again, started them in this
same school, different class (year-round Montessori school-- what a
joke!) hoping they'd have a different experience. They both
DETESTED it. They didn't like their teachers, they didn't like
their peers, their environment was HOTTTT in the summer because of
lack of air conditioning, etc. etc. etc. I heard about charter
schools and began investigating them. I found a brand new one that
had opened up and they had 2 spots for 2 kindergartners-- perfect!
My kids were enrolled the following week. Let me preface this by
saying that I used to work in the school systems as an interpreter
for the Deaf. As a matter of fact, I worked at the
*very* "Montessori" (ha, a joke) school my children initially
started. This new charter school is, hands down, the best public
school I've ever seen in my entire life. My son absotively has the
best teacher I've ever met and he loves her to death.
Let me give a little background on my children. Firstly, my son,
Coliya, is exceptionally gifted-- he's tested off the charts. We
brought him home from Ukraine and he had some attachment issues
related to abuse and neglect. He has come a VERY long way from a
little boy who had no conscience, caring, genuine concern or
feelings for anyone but himself to a boy who is respectful,
empathetic, sensitive and just as selfish as any other 5 year old
is :) (Yes, I'm patting myself on the back for this-- I can blow
raspberries at all of the naysayers who disagreed with the methods I
used to parent him INCLUDING my husband, initially!) Coliya is also
hyperactive. To be perfectly honest, I think there's a *definite*
connection to intelligence and the degree of one's perceived
hyperactivity. Having said that, I'd still say he's hyperactive---
LOL. He's the most curious, quickest learner, who doesn't forget a
thing, ever. Let's move to my daughter, Lyllia. Lyllia is "stuck"
emotionally at about a 3 year old level. She's quite intelligent
and very imaginative, she is just very emotionall immature "for her
age" (comparing to the "norms", whatever those are!). She lives in
her own little world, doing things at her own pace, as she pleases,
IF she pleases, as the notion strikes her. This is in *everything*
she does from schoolwork to getting dressed, to eating, to walking,
to playing-- EVERYTHING. I've tried to change this behavior (don't
yell at me-- I was ignorant then!) to no avail (OBVIOUSLY!) I have
since learned that this is her and for me to even attempt to change
this about her would be detrimental to her as a person. (It took me
awhile to come around but, I did, finally!)
Enter my predicament. I am wanting to take Lyllia out of school
because it's not working and it hasn't worked and it's not going to
work because it just doesn't work for her. I also feel that I
should take Coliya out, although it's working for him at least in
theory, right now. I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle
unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. Can I tell
you how much GUILT I feel about that??? I feel completely
inadequate. Like any other mother on this list or in the world
could take both of them out and be super-mom and I'm failing in so
many ways! As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly
feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even
STARTED the process!!! Should I take them both out and try this?
Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently
working for him? Should I just forget the whole thing altogether
and keep it as it is? (Yeah, right!) I seriously think that if I
took them both out to do it, I'd go insane :-) I wish I were
kidding. But I will do anything, if it's best for my children.
My husband is a self-learner. He was unschooled his whole life. Of
course, they didn't call it that back then. He was taken out of
school to work for his family, to support them (he's only 35). The
man is nothing short of a genius. His unschooling has made him far
more capable than any of his counterparts in his field (engineering)
however, he lacks a formal education which sometimes stands in his
way. The strange part about this whole thing is, he has more doubts
than me. Here's a man who is living proof that you don't have
to "attend school" to develop your potential and to LEARN. Yet,
he's scared about our daughter not "learning enough". "How will she
learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?" "How will
she learn to read?" "How will..." these are questions he continues
to ask. And guess what? I don't have an answer for him because I
don't have a clue. And I told him *just* that. He's supportive of
me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he
said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn---
hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing
the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." I know that if he
feels that I feel it's best, he will trust my judgment, at least for
a little while, just to see how things go. I feel it certainly
can't hurt. What we are doing right now isn't working so, trying
something else couldn't work any LESS-- what do I have to lose?
So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper
across their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry,
I don't know the formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah,
we are just going to see what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being
facetious. I know that I have to put something under curriculum--
I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start with a 5 year old
who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as
attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her,
going back through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be
her mommy. I think this will be *highly* beneficial based on the
research I've been doing. But as far as "schooling" goes-- what
approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra
Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling
and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do
I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat
in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me
some direction. The question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and
guide me? I'm really lost and I sincerely need help and I *really*
want to make this work. I want to do what's right for my children.
Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this
novel. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
Warmly,
Brandi, Jonathan & Baby Boo edd 6/26/03
angel m/c 8/98
Coliya & Lyllia, adopted from Ukraine in 1999 (both 5 years old now!)
www.brandiland.com
[email protected]
Welcome Brandi,
First off take a deep breath. I am new to this list as well but we have been
an unschooling family since the family started. Relax and trust your
children. I don't know about the laws in your state but I am sure someone on
this list does and can help you through that process. My boys have never
seen the inside of a school, public or private, and I have never regretted
that decision. You sound like a loving, caring parent and I am sure that all
of your children will flourish in your unschooling family. But that is a
decision that you and your husband have to make. You know your children
best. Better than any teacher, no matter how wonderful. Just relax and let
your children live. Don't worry about the tomorrows. You will certainly
gain a lot of information from just reading this list. And I am sure others
have lots of words of wisdom.
Welcome again to the list.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
First off take a deep breath. I am new to this list as well but we have been
an unschooling family since the family started. Relax and trust your
children. I don't know about the laws in your state but I am sure someone on
this list does and can help you through that process. My boys have never
seen the inside of a school, public or private, and I have never regretted
that decision. You sound like a loving, caring parent and I am sure that all
of your children will flourish in your unschooling family. But that is a
decision that you and your husband have to make. You know your children
best. Better than any teacher, no matter how wonderful. Just relax and let
your children live. Don't worry about the tomorrows. You will certainly
gain a lot of information from just reading this list. And I am sure others
have lots of words of wisdom.
Welcome again to the list.
Pam G.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Betsy
**How will she
learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?**
Hi, Brandi (and Brandi's husband) --
I've learned, from reading Punished by Rewards, that a lot of
"scientific" ideas about education were derived from conditioning
experiments on lab rats and pigeons. Human beings have much greater
learning abilities than birds and rodents. Children don't need an
organized system of deprivation and reward to make learning happen. I
don't even think they need a "structured environment". I think they
need an interesting environment and exposure to a rich life.
Your husband might really benefit from reading Linda Dobson's column,
The Gift of Flow, in the Nov-Dec 2002 issue of HEM. I really thought it
was great. (And it sounds complicated and scientific. I just don't
know if it's clear for someone who hasn't had a lot of exposure to
homeschooling and unschooling already. It's pretty sophisticated stuff.)
She quotes from Csikszentmihaly's book, Finding Flow: The Psychology of
Engagement with Everyday Life. The third condition for achieving flow
is "A person's skills are fully involved in overcoming a challenge that
is just about manageable." I think this is the level that unschooled
children seek out for themselves. In education school, my husband (a
teacher) studied similar concepts, but it's nearly impossible for him to
establish tasks for his 9th Graders that engage them that much and
challenge them just the right amount. Yet this happens very naturally
in unschooling.
The decision about taking one or both kids out of school is a tough one.
Especially when you are pregnant and will soon be busy with an infant.
If you feel that one of your children is being more harmed by
Kindergarden than the other, then I can understand why you would want to
take that child out first.
Betsy
**He's supportive of
me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he
said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn---
hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing
the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." **
This is a good start. Maybe he's just having a hard time believing it
also works with less concrete topics, like the alphabet.
** Also, where do I start with a 5 year old
who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best?**
I would say start where you are: love, cuddling and play. I would never
underestimate the power of a mother's love. The education establishment
may not respect it, but I do! About 70 years ago parenting "experts"
were positive that cuddling was bad for children. After seeing examples
of scientific stupidity like that, I never want to listen to another
so-called expert.
learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?**
Hi, Brandi (and Brandi's husband) --
I've learned, from reading Punished by Rewards, that a lot of
"scientific" ideas about education were derived from conditioning
experiments on lab rats and pigeons. Human beings have much greater
learning abilities than birds and rodents. Children don't need an
organized system of deprivation and reward to make learning happen. I
don't even think they need a "structured environment". I think they
need an interesting environment and exposure to a rich life.
Your husband might really benefit from reading Linda Dobson's column,
The Gift of Flow, in the Nov-Dec 2002 issue of HEM. I really thought it
was great. (And it sounds complicated and scientific. I just don't
know if it's clear for someone who hasn't had a lot of exposure to
homeschooling and unschooling already. It's pretty sophisticated stuff.)
She quotes from Csikszentmihaly's book, Finding Flow: The Psychology of
Engagement with Everyday Life. The third condition for achieving flow
is "A person's skills are fully involved in overcoming a challenge that
is just about manageable." I think this is the level that unschooled
children seek out for themselves. In education school, my husband (a
teacher) studied similar concepts, but it's nearly impossible for him to
establish tasks for his 9th Graders that engage them that much and
challenge them just the right amount. Yet this happens very naturally
in unschooling.
The decision about taking one or both kids out of school is a tough one.
Especially when you are pregnant and will soon be busy with an infant.
If you feel that one of your children is being more harmed by
Kindergarden than the other, then I can understand why you would want to
take that child out first.
Betsy
**He's supportive of
me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he
said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn---
hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing
the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." **
This is a good start. Maybe he's just having a hard time believing it
also works with less concrete topics, like the alphabet.
** Also, where do I start with a 5 year old
who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best?**
I would say start where you are: love, cuddling and play. I would never
underestimate the power of a mother's love. The education establishment
may not respect it, but I do! About 70 years ago parenting "experts"
were positive that cuddling was bad for children. After seeing examples
of scientific stupidity like that, I never want to listen to another
so-called expert.
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 7:21:05 AM, beaglette@... writes:
<< I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle
unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. >>
Unschooling isn't like schooling or teaching.
It doesn't take any more time to "unschool" one person that two.
And if there's another person in the situation, that's another piece of
input, someone else to play with, someone else to play off of, and there's
less work and responsibility for you than if you are the ONLY other person
there.
<< As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly
feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even
STARTED the process!!!>>
You did express a LOT of feelings. Lots of pride and frustration and fear
and doubt and anger and joy and... none of it matters if you're going to
unschool. None of the school stories matter if you're going to unschool.
<<Should I take them both out and try this? >>
IF they both want to come home, you should take them both out and DO this.
Don't "try it." How will you know if it has worked? How long will you give
it and what will they have to learn or perform for you to decide it was a
success?
If you want to unschool to get them away from school's crowded nonsensical
pressure, than you succeed the moment they leave school.
<<Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently
working for him? >>
What does HE want to do?
<<So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
unschooling?>>
Carol Narigon is in Ohio and used this as a curriculum. You could easily
adapt it.
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
<<...As far as attempting to progress her emotionally...
You don't "progress" anyone ANYTHING. People progress on their own. It's an
intransitive verb. I progress. You don't progress me. Same with learning.
She learns. You don't learn her.
Instead of planning what you will do to her, I think you'll do better if you
are just WITH her, attentive to her, WITH her, letting her be what she is at
each moment, trying to make her comfortable and peacefully happy.
<< But as far as "schooling" goes-- what
approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra
Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling
and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do
I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. >>
I'm not clueless. Hang around with those who used to be afraid and aren't
anymore, and soak in that confidence! It's free!
As far as "schooling" ANYONE, don't take any approach. Don't school anyone.
<<I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat
in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me
some direction.>>>
AHA!!!! Here is the trick. If you're on a sailboat in the middle of the
ocean, what's for lunch? What can you see in the sky? What does the water
look like? Seen any water mammals? Fish? Any cool seaweed floating around
there? Any FedEx packages? Is the wind blowing? How long has it been
since you were on shore? How do you know? Are the kids scared? Can you
jolly them up? Do you know any songs about water or boats? Can you play a
rhyming game?
You don't have to GET somewhere else to start being with your children.
You don't have to obtain "stuff" to start learning from what is right around
you.
I see two things in your post that I think you could jettison with great
benefit to you and your whole family: Stop saying "gifted," and stop
thinking "gifted/not gifted." Stop thinking "genius." And the other is if
Coliya and Lyllia are your adopted children, why do you keep saying "adopted"
and if they're going to be Americans why do you keep saying "Ukraine"?
Call them their names, and say they're you're children so they will FEEL that
way instead of feeling like "adopted from the Ukraine" is part of their name.
Sandra
<< I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle
unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. >>
Unschooling isn't like schooling or teaching.
It doesn't take any more time to "unschool" one person that two.
And if there's another person in the situation, that's another piece of
input, someone else to play with, someone else to play off of, and there's
less work and responsibility for you than if you are the ONLY other person
there.
<< As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly
feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even
STARTED the process!!!>>
You did express a LOT of feelings. Lots of pride and frustration and fear
and doubt and anger and joy and... none of it matters if you're going to
unschool. None of the school stories matter if you're going to unschool.
<<Should I take them both out and try this? >>
IF they both want to come home, you should take them both out and DO this.
Don't "try it." How will you know if it has worked? How long will you give
it and what will they have to learn or perform for you to decide it was a
success?
If you want to unschool to get them away from school's crowded nonsensical
pressure, than you succeed the moment they leave school.
<<Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently
working for him? >>
What does HE want to do?
<<So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
unschooling?>>
Carol Narigon is in Ohio and used this as a curriculum. You could easily
adapt it.
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum
<<...As far as attempting to progress her emotionally...
You don't "progress" anyone ANYTHING. People progress on their own. It's an
intransitive verb. I progress. You don't progress me. Same with learning.
She learns. You don't learn her.
Instead of planning what you will do to her, I think you'll do better if you
are just WITH her, attentive to her, WITH her, letting her be what she is at
each moment, trying to make her comfortable and peacefully happy.
<< But as far as "schooling" goes-- what
approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra
Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling
and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do
I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. >>
I'm not clueless. Hang around with those who used to be afraid and aren't
anymore, and soak in that confidence! It's free!
As far as "schooling" ANYONE, don't take any approach. Don't school anyone.
<<I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat
in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me
some direction.>>>
AHA!!!! Here is the trick. If you're on a sailboat in the middle of the
ocean, what's for lunch? What can you see in the sky? What does the water
look like? Seen any water mammals? Fish? Any cool seaweed floating around
there? Any FedEx packages? Is the wind blowing? How long has it been
since you were on shore? How do you know? Are the kids scared? Can you
jolly them up? Do you know any songs about water or boats? Can you play a
rhyming game?
You don't have to GET somewhere else to start being with your children.
You don't have to obtain "stuff" to start learning from what is right around
you.
I see two things in your post that I think you could jettison with great
benefit to you and your whole family: Stop saying "gifted," and stop
thinking "gifted/not gifted." Stop thinking "genius." And the other is if
Coliya and Lyllia are your adopted children, why do you keep saying "adopted"
and if they're going to be Americans why do you keep saying "Ukraine"?
Call them their names, and say they're you're children so they will FEEL that
way instead of feeling like "adopted from the Ukraine" is part of their name.
Sandra
Jim Selvage
Brandi,
I have a question, which my alleiviate all the fears of what "curriculum"
you are going to tell the school you are using. What is the mandatory age
for schooling in Ohio. I am sure you can find that on the internet or by
calling a Homeschool association in Ohio. I took my son out of school when
he was beginning the first grade. He was six years old at the time. I live
in North Dakota, and didn't know much about homeschooling at the time (we
made the decision on a Friday and withdrew him the next Monday), but what I
found out is that the age for compulsory education is 7, so legally he
didn't even have to be in school. I suspect that may be true in Ohio too.
I will try to find that and let you know. If that is the case, all you have
to do is say you do not feel she is ready to be in school. Actually, that
is all you have to say anyway at this point. I know many people in this
area who have waited a year to put their children in school. Just because
you don't intend to ever put her back in, does not mean that you cannot tell
them that now. It is true, from what you say. And then just go back to
living like you did before the children started school, and read, read, read
about unschooling, homeschooling, etc. She will be fine :>! (As he will,
and I am sure once you figure the whole thing out you will know what is best
for the whole family).
many blessings,
erin
I have a question, which my alleiviate all the fears of what "curriculum"
you are going to tell the school you are using. What is the mandatory age
for schooling in Ohio. I am sure you can find that on the internet or by
calling a Homeschool association in Ohio. I took my son out of school when
he was beginning the first grade. He was six years old at the time. I live
in North Dakota, and didn't know much about homeschooling at the time (we
made the decision on a Friday and withdrew him the next Monday), but what I
found out is that the age for compulsory education is 7, so legally he
didn't even have to be in school. I suspect that may be true in Ohio too.
I will try to find that and let you know. If that is the case, all you have
to do is say you do not feel she is ready to be in school. Actually, that
is all you have to say anyway at this point. I know many people in this
area who have waited a year to put their children in school. Just because
you don't intend to ever put her back in, does not mean that you cannot tell
them that now. It is true, from what you say. And then just go back to
living like you did before the children started school, and read, read, read
about unschooling, homeschooling, etc. She will be fine :>! (As he will,
and I am sure once you figure the whole thing out you will know what is best
for the whole family).
many blessings,
erin
----- Original Message -----
From: <beaglette@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Need help-- please!!
> This is long but please bear with me-- I need some help!
>
> I'll start off by introducing myself. My name is Brandi. I'm a 30
> year old stay-at-home mom of the most wonderfully intelligent,
> gorgeous children on the planet whom we adopted from Ukraine in
> 1999. They are both 5 years old, one boy, one girl, four months
> apart in age. They are currently enrolled in kindergarten. We lost
> a baby in 1998 and I am pregnant with our fourth child and due in
> June. You can learn more about me at my website: www.brandiland.com
>
> We started the kids in a head start type program the last semester
> of last school year. I regret ever having introduced them to the
> school system because now it is *impossible* to unteach them the
> behaviors that they have learned from their peers whose parents fail
> to recognize polite, respectful means of expressing themselves (ok,
> was that nice enough and did it convey my point?? No? Ok, the kids
> were smarty pants, brats :-) We, once again, started them in this
> same school, different class (year-round Montessori school-- what a
> joke!) hoping they'd have a different experience. They both
> DETESTED it. They didn't like their teachers, they didn't like
> their peers, their environment was HOTTTT in the summer because of
> lack of air conditioning, etc. etc. etc. I heard about charter
> schools and began investigating them. I found a brand new one that
> had opened up and they had 2 spots for 2 kindergartners-- perfect!
> My kids were enrolled the following week. Let me preface this by
> saying that I used to work in the school systems as an interpreter
> for the Deaf. As a matter of fact, I worked at the
> *very* "Montessori" (ha, a joke) school my children initially
> started. This new charter school is, hands down, the best public
> school I've ever seen in my entire life. My son absotively has the
> best teacher I've ever met and he loves her to death.
>
> Let me give a little background on my children. Firstly, my son,
> Coliya, is exceptionally gifted-- he's tested off the charts. We
> brought him home from Ukraine and he had some attachment issues
> related to abuse and neglect. He has come a VERY long way from a
> little boy who had no conscience, caring, genuine concern or
> feelings for anyone but himself to a boy who is respectful,
> empathetic, sensitive and just as selfish as any other 5 year old
> is :) (Yes, I'm patting myself on the back for this-- I can blow
> raspberries at all of the naysayers who disagreed with the methods I
> used to parent him INCLUDING my husband, initially!) Coliya is also
> hyperactive. To be perfectly honest, I think there's a *definite*
> connection to intelligence and the degree of one's perceived
> hyperactivity. Having said that, I'd still say he's hyperactive---
> LOL. He's the most curious, quickest learner, who doesn't forget a
> thing, ever. Let's move to my daughter, Lyllia. Lyllia is "stuck"
> emotionally at about a 3 year old level. She's quite intelligent
> and very imaginative, she is just very emotionall immature "for her
> age" (comparing to the "norms", whatever those are!). She lives in
> her own little world, doing things at her own pace, as she pleases,
> IF she pleases, as the notion strikes her. This is in *everything*
> she does from schoolwork to getting dressed, to eating, to walking,
> to playing-- EVERYTHING. I've tried to change this behavior (don't
> yell at me-- I was ignorant then!) to no avail (OBVIOUSLY!) I have
> since learned that this is her and for me to even attempt to change
> this about her would be detrimental to her as a person. (It took me
> awhile to come around but, I did, finally!)
>
> Enter my predicament. I am wanting to take Lyllia out of school
> because it's not working and it hasn't worked and it's not going to
> work because it just doesn't work for her. I also feel that I
> should take Coliya out, although it's working for him at least in
> theory, right now. I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle
> unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. Can I tell
> you how much GUILT I feel about that??? I feel completely
> inadequate. Like any other mother on this list or in the world
> could take both of them out and be super-mom and I'm failing in so
> many ways! As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly
> feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even
> STARTED the process!!! Should I take them both out and try this?
> Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently
> working for him? Should I just forget the whole thing altogether
> and keep it as it is? (Yeah, right!) I seriously think that if I
> took them both out to do it, I'd go insane :-) I wish I were
> kidding. But I will do anything, if it's best for my children.
>
> My husband is a self-learner. He was unschooled his whole life. Of
> course, they didn't call it that back then. He was taken out of
> school to work for his family, to support them (he's only 35). The
> man is nothing short of a genius. His unschooling has made him far
> more capable than any of his counterparts in his field (engineering)
> however, he lacks a formal education which sometimes stands in his
> way. The strange part about this whole thing is, he has more doubts
> than me. Here's a man who is living proof that you don't have
> to "attend school" to develop your potential and to LEARN. Yet,
> he's scared about our daughter not "learning enough". "How will she
> learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?" "How will
> she learn to read?" "How will..." these are questions he continues
> to ask. And guess what? I don't have an answer for him because I
> don't have a clue. And I told him *just* that. He's supportive of
> me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he
> said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn---
> hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing
> the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." I know that if he
> feels that I feel it's best, he will trust my judgment, at least for
> a little while, just to see how things go. I feel it certainly
> can't hurt. What we are doing right now isn't working so, trying
> something else couldn't work any LESS-- what do I have to lose?
>
> So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
> unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper
> across their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry,
> I don't know the formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah,
> we are just going to see what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being
> facetious. I know that I have to put something under curriculum--
> I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start with a 5 year old
> who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as
> attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her,
> going back through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be
> her mommy. I think this will be *highly* beneficial based on the
> research I've been doing. But as far as "schooling" goes-- what
> approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra
> Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling
> and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do
> I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat
> in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me
> some direction. The question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and
> guide me? I'm really lost and I sincerely need help and I *really*
> want to make this work. I want to do what's right for my children.
>
> Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this
> novel. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
>
> Warmly,
>
> Brandi, Jonathan & Baby Boo edd 6/26/03
> angel m/c 8/98
> Coliya & Lyllia, adopted from Ukraine in 1999 (both 5 years old now!)
> www.brandiland.com
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Jim Selvage
Brandi,
I check it out and compulsory schooling for Ohio is "between six and
eighteen years of age." So, if she is still five, they can say a thing.
Just go in and tell them she is not ready for school yet. Don't fill out
any paperwork, etc. But, get yourself prepared for when she turns six. I
got my info at the HSLDA site.
many blessings,
erin
I check it out and compulsory schooling for Ohio is "between six and
eighteen years of age." So, if she is still five, they can say a thing.
Just go in and tell them she is not ready for school yet. Don't fill out
any paperwork, etc. But, get yourself prepared for when she turns six. I
got my info at the HSLDA site.
many blessings,
erin
----- Original Message -----
From: <beaglette@...>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2003 8:18 AM
Subject: [Unschooling-dotcom] Need help-- please!!
> This is long but please bear with me-- I need some help!
>
> I'll start off by introducing myself. My name is Brandi. I'm a 30
> year old stay-at-home mom of the most wonderfully intelligent,
> gorgeous children on the planet whom we adopted from Ukraine in
> 1999. They are both 5 years old, one boy, one girl, four months
> apart in age. They are currently enrolled in kindergarten. We lost
> a baby in 1998 and I am pregnant with our fourth child and due in
> June. You can learn more about me at my website: www.brandiland.com
>
> We started the kids in a head start type program the last semester
> of last school year. I regret ever having introduced them to the
> school system because now it is *impossible* to unteach them the
> behaviors that they have learned from their peers whose parents fail
> to recognize polite, respectful means of expressing themselves (ok,
> was that nice enough and did it convey my point?? No? Ok, the kids
> were smarty pants, brats :-) We, once again, started them in this
> same school, different class (year-round Montessori school-- what a
> joke!) hoping they'd have a different experience. They both
> DETESTED it. They didn't like their teachers, they didn't like
> their peers, their environment was HOTTTT in the summer because of
> lack of air conditioning, etc. etc. etc. I heard about charter
> schools and began investigating them. I found a brand new one that
> had opened up and they had 2 spots for 2 kindergartners-- perfect!
> My kids were enrolled the following week. Let me preface this by
> saying that I used to work in the school systems as an interpreter
> for the Deaf. As a matter of fact, I worked at the
> *very* "Montessori" (ha, a joke) school my children initially
> started. This new charter school is, hands down, the best public
> school I've ever seen in my entire life. My son absotively has the
> best teacher I've ever met and he loves her to death.
>
> Let me give a little background on my children. Firstly, my son,
> Coliya, is exceptionally gifted-- he's tested off the charts. We
> brought him home from Ukraine and he had some attachment issues
> related to abuse and neglect. He has come a VERY long way from a
> little boy who had no conscience, caring, genuine concern or
> feelings for anyone but himself to a boy who is respectful,
> empathetic, sensitive and just as selfish as any other 5 year old
> is :) (Yes, I'm patting myself on the back for this-- I can blow
> raspberries at all of the naysayers who disagreed with the methods I
> used to parent him INCLUDING my husband, initially!) Coliya is also
> hyperactive. To be perfectly honest, I think there's a *definite*
> connection to intelligence and the degree of one's perceived
> hyperactivity. Having said that, I'd still say he's hyperactive---
> LOL. He's the most curious, quickest learner, who doesn't forget a
> thing, ever. Let's move to my daughter, Lyllia. Lyllia is "stuck"
> emotionally at about a 3 year old level. She's quite intelligent
> and very imaginative, she is just very emotionall immature "for her
> age" (comparing to the "norms", whatever those are!). She lives in
> her own little world, doing things at her own pace, as she pleases,
> IF she pleases, as the notion strikes her. This is in *everything*
> she does from schoolwork to getting dressed, to eating, to walking,
> to playing-- EVERYTHING. I've tried to change this behavior (don't
> yell at me-- I was ignorant then!) to no avail (OBVIOUSLY!) I have
> since learned that this is her and for me to even attempt to change
> this about her would be detrimental to her as a person. (It took me
> awhile to come around but, I did, finally!)
>
> Enter my predicament. I am wanting to take Lyllia out of school
> because it's not working and it hasn't worked and it's not going to
> work because it just doesn't work for her. I also feel that I
> should take Coliya out, although it's working for him at least in
> theory, right now. I'll be honest-- I don't think I can handle
> unschooling both of them at the same time, initially. Can I tell
> you how much GUILT I feel about that??? I feel completely
> inadequate. Like any other mother on this list or in the world
> could take both of them out and be super-mom and I'm failing in so
> many ways! As if leaving him in makes me a bad mom. I honestly
> feel this way. These are all feelings I have and I haven't even
> STARTED the process!!! Should I take them both out and try this?
> Should I take her out and leave him in because it's currently
> working for him? Should I just forget the whole thing altogether
> and keep it as it is? (Yeah, right!) I seriously think that if I
> took them both out to do it, I'd go insane :-) I wish I were
> kidding. But I will do anything, if it's best for my children.
>
> My husband is a self-learner. He was unschooled his whole life. Of
> course, they didn't call it that back then. He was taken out of
> school to work for his family, to support them (he's only 35). The
> man is nothing short of a genius. His unschooling has made him far
> more capable than any of his counterparts in his field (engineering)
> however, he lacks a formal education which sometimes stands in his
> way. The strange part about this whole thing is, he has more doubts
> than me. Here's a man who is living proof that you don't have
> to "attend school" to develop your potential and to LEARN. Yet,
> he's scared about our daughter not "learning enough". "How will she
> learn her ABC's if there's no structured environment?" "How will
> she learn to read?" "How will..." these are questions he continues
> to ask. And guess what? I don't have an answer for him because I
> don't have a clue. And I told him *just* that. He's supportive of
> me homeschooling and unschooling, to a certain extent because, as he
> said, "I have always believed that's how a child should learn---
> hands on, from everything around him-- going to the store, mowing
> the lawn-- everything is a learning experience." I know that if he
> feels that I feel it's best, he will trust my judgment, at least for
> a little while, just to see how things go. I feel it certainly
> can't hurt. What we are doing right now isn't working so, trying
> something else couldn't work any LESS-- what do I have to lose?
>
> So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
> unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper
> across their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry,
> I don't know the formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah,
> we are just going to see what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being
> facetious. I know that I have to put something under curriculum--
> I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start with a 5 year old
> who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as
> attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her,
> going back through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be
> her mommy. I think this will be *highly* beneficial based on the
> research I've been doing. But as far as "schooling" goes-- what
> approach do I take for someone who is so young? I read Sandra
> Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned deschooling
> and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what do
> I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat
> in the middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me
> some direction. The question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and
> guide me? I'm really lost and I sincerely need help and I *really*
> want to make this work. I want to do what's right for my children.
>
> Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this
> novel. I can't tell you how much I appreciate it!
>
> Warmly,
>
> Brandi, Jonathan & Baby Boo edd 6/26/03
> angel m/c 8/98
> Coliya & Lyllia, adopted from Ukraine in 1999 (both 5 years old now!)
> www.brandiland.com
>
>
>
> ~~~~ Don't forget! If you change topics, change the subject line! ~~~~
>
> If you have questions, concerns or problems with this list, please email
the moderator, Joyce Fetteroll (fetteroll@...), or the list owner,
Helen Hegener (HEM-Editor@...).
>
> To unsubscribe from this group, click on the following link or address an
email to:
> [email protected]
>
> Visit the Unschooling website: http://www.unschooling.com
>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
Tia Leschke
> Unschooling isn't like schooling or teaching.Having unschooled one who was essentially an only (the other three grown and
> It doesn't take any more time to "unschool" one person that two.
> And if there's another person in the situation, that's another piece of
> input, someone else to play with, someone else to play off of, and there's
> less work and responsibility for you than if you are the ONLY other person
> there.
gone) I think it would have helped to have a sib or two around to stimulate
each other with new ideas.
Tia
Brandi
Sandra,
Although I don't agree with everything you have said, I appreciate your feedback and you've given me some things to think about :)
Regarding the "adopted from Ukraine" in reference to my children-- it's a merit I wear proudly, something they are very proud of, something we are all proud of. I *literally* risked my life and my sanity to get my children. They are my children who are Americans but they are also by nationality and citizenship, Ukrainians as well, at least for the next 18 years on the citizenship part :)
Adoption is a very special thing that I cherish, just as others cherish their "cloth diapered, sling-worn babies"-- all are adjectives. You can't understand my reasons until you know my personal story so please don't assign a deeper meaning to the adjectives I choose! :)
Warmly,
Brandi
I see two things in your post that I think you could jettison with great
benefit to you and your whole family: Stop saying "gifted," and stop
thinking "gifted/not gifted." Stop thinking "genius." And the other is if
Coliya and Lyllia are your adopted children, why do you keep saying "adopted"
and if they're going to be Americans why do you keep saying "Ukraine"?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Although I don't agree with everything you have said, I appreciate your feedback and you've given me some things to think about :)
Regarding the "adopted from Ukraine" in reference to my children-- it's a merit I wear proudly, something they are very proud of, something we are all proud of. I *literally* risked my life and my sanity to get my children. They are my children who are Americans but they are also by nationality and citizenship, Ukrainians as well, at least for the next 18 years on the citizenship part :)
Adoption is a very special thing that I cherish, just as others cherish their "cloth diapered, sling-worn babies"-- all are adjectives. You can't understand my reasons until you know my personal story so please don't assign a deeper meaning to the adjectives I choose! :)
Warmly,
Brandi
I see two things in your post that I think you could jettison with great
benefit to you and your whole family: Stop saying "gifted," and stop
thinking "gifted/not gifted." Stop thinking "genius." And the other is if
Coliya and Lyllia are your adopted children, why do you keep saying "adopted"
and if they're going to be Americans why do you keep saying "Ukraine"?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/2003 2:42:23 PM Central Standard Time,
jselvage@... writes:
is enrolled at school before the age of compulsory attendance, then their
free pass of waiting until they ARE of that age suddently becomes expired.
And a good place to find the laws is at <A HREF="www.nhen.org">www.nhen.org</A>.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
jselvage@... writes:
> I check it out and compulsory schooling for Ohio is "between six andBe careful, though. All states are different. For instance, in TN, if a kid
> eighteen years of age." So, if she is still five, they can say a thing.
> Just go in and tell them she is not ready for school yet. Don't fill out
> any paperwork, etc. But, get yourself prepared for when she turns six. I
> got my info at the HSLDA site.
>
>
is enrolled at school before the age of compulsory attendance, then their
free pass of waiting until they ARE of that age suddently becomes expired.
And a good place to find the laws is at <A HREF="www.nhen.org">www.nhen.org</A>.
Tuck
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Jim Selvage
Brandi,
This is how my previous message should have read, lol:
I checked it out and compulsory schooling for Ohio is "between six and
eighteen years of age." So, if she is still five, they (meaning the school)
can't say a thing. Just go in and tell them she is not ready for school
yet. Don't fill out any paperwork, etc. But, get yourself prepared for
when she turns six. I got my info at the HSLDA site.
many blessings,
erin
This is how my previous message should have read, lol:
I checked it out and compulsory schooling for Ohio is "between six and
eighteen years of age." So, if she is still five, they (meaning the school)
can't say a thing. Just go in and tell them she is not ready for school
yet. Don't fill out any paperwork, etc. But, get yourself prepared for
when she turns six. I got my info at the HSLDA site.
many blessings,
erin
Jim Selvage
Tuck,
Wow, that sure puts a loophole in things doesn't it! I am glad I don't live
in TN I guess, lol.(But also wish I didn't live in ND!) Before I took my
son out, I called our state homeschooling association and they gave me the
advice I gave. So I guess I should have put a disclaimer on my post that
she should check things oout with her own homeschooling association. Didn't
mean to cause trouble, just trying to make her aware the alternative. I
really believe in never giving the government school any more than you are
required to give, and knowing your own state laws is important in this
regard.
many blessings,
erin
Wow, that sure puts a loophole in things doesn't it! I am glad I don't live
in TN I guess, lol.(But also wish I didn't live in ND!) Before I took my
son out, I called our state homeschooling association and they gave me the
advice I gave. So I guess I should have put a disclaimer on my post that
she should check things oout with her own homeschooling association. Didn't
mean to cause trouble, just trying to make her aware the alternative. I
really believe in never giving the government school any more than you are
required to give, and knowing your own state laws is important in this
regard.
many blessings,
erin
>out
> > I check it out and compulsory schooling for Ohio is "between six and
> > eighteen years of age." So, if she is still five, they can say a thing.
> > Just go in and tell them she is not ready for school yet. Don't fill
> > any paperwork, etc. But, get yourself prepared for when she turns six.I
> > got my info at the HSLDA site.kid
> >
> >
>
> Be careful, though. All states are different. For instance, in TN, if a
> is enrolled at school before the age of compulsory attendance, then their
> free pass of waiting until they ARE of that age suddently becomes expired.
>
>
Barb Eaton
Brandi,
You've gotten so excellent post on the other issues. I'll address Ohio.
Where are you located? Notifing is the same everwhere in the state. If you
are local and want to talk I'll send my # offlist.
Ohio isn't really that hard to notify in. You send it to the
superintendent. You may give the school a courtesy call or letter to let
them know your intent to homeschool. Here are a few places to start. IMNSHO
Never trust the hslda site. It is always best to check local sources.
Compulsory age is 6-18yo but since you enrolled your children in Head Start
(Gov't School) you need to notify. These sites have some examples in the
files. SWCAH, HS & More, and Inches are inclusive support groups in and
around Columbus. You can e me direct too. Homemama @ infinet.com (without
the spaces)
OHS (A general Ohio elist and site) I'd get on here and ask questions.
This one and INCHES have notification info in the links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oh-homeschool/
SWCAH (South-West Columbus Area Homeschoolers)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWCAH
HSandMore (East Columbus)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HSandMORE
INCHES (Inclusive North Columbus Home Education
Support)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/INCHESgroup
Also Carol Narigons' (she live in Ohio) page at Sandra site is very helpful
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
I'd suggest deschooling. Then on to the unschooling life. Enjoy your
journey. We're as close as your keyboard. Maybe your phone. <G>
Barb E
"The function of the child is to live his own life - not the life that his
anxious parents think he should live."
A S Neill
on 1/7/03 9:14 AM, Brandi at beaglette@... wrote:
You've gotten so excellent post on the other issues. I'll address Ohio.
Where are you located? Notifing is the same everwhere in the state. If you
are local and want to talk I'll send my # offlist.
Ohio isn't really that hard to notify in. You send it to the
superintendent. You may give the school a courtesy call or letter to let
them know your intent to homeschool. Here are a few places to start. IMNSHO
Never trust the hslda site. It is always best to check local sources.
Compulsory age is 6-18yo but since you enrolled your children in Head Start
(Gov't School) you need to notify. These sites have some examples in the
files. SWCAH, HS & More, and Inches are inclusive support groups in and
around Columbus. You can e me direct too. Homemama @ infinet.com (without
the spaces)
OHS (A general Ohio elist and site) I'd get on here and ask questions.
This one and INCHES have notification info in the links
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oh-homeschool/
SWCAH (South-West Columbus Area Homeschoolers)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SWCAH
HSandMore (East Columbus)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/HSandMORE
INCHES (Inclusive North Columbus Home Education
Support)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/INCHESgroup
Also Carol Narigons' (she live in Ohio) page at Sandra site is very helpful
http://sandradodd.com/unschoolingcurriculum.html
I'd suggest deschooling. Then on to the unschooling life. Enjoy your
journey. We're as close as your keyboard. Maybe your phone. <G>
Barb E
"The function of the child is to live his own life - not the life that his
anxious parents think he should live."
A S Neill
on 1/7/03 9:14 AM, Brandi at beaglette@... wrote:
> So, where do I begin? How do I "meet the requirements" of Ohio by
> unschooling? I'm sure they'd be thrilled to get the piece of paper across
> their desk that says I'm withdrawing her from school (sorry, I don't know the
> formal names of the paperwork yet!) saying "yeah, we are just going to see
> what happens"...lol. No, no, I'm being facetious. I know that I have to put
> something under curriculum-- I'm just not sure what? Also, where do I start
> with a 5 year old who is, emotionally 3 or 3.5 years old, at best? As far as
> attempting to progress her emotionally, I plan on regressing her, going back
> through the stages she missed when I wasn't there to be her mommy. I think
> this will be *highly* beneficial based on the research I've been doing. But
> as far as "schooling" goes-- what approach do I take for someone who is so
> young? I read Sandra Dodd's website this morning-- the part that concerned
> deschooling and I'm thinking that might, indeed, be the way to go. But, what
> do I know? I am TOTALLY clueless. I feel like I'm like I'm a sailboat in the
> middle of the ocean, waiting for a strong wind to give me some direction. The
> question is-- will y'all be my strong wind and guide me? I'm really lost and
> I sincerely need help and I *really* want to make this work. I want to do
> what's right for my children.
>
> Thank you so much, in advance, if you've made it through this novel. I can't
> tell you how much I appreciate it!
>
> Warmly,
>
> Brandi
Barb Eaton
Tuck,
Thanks for the nhen site too.
"What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But if
that drop was not in the ocean, I think the ocean would be
less because of that missing drop. I do not agree with
the big way of doing things."
- Mother Theresa, Albanian Nun, Missionary
on 1/7/03 5:31 PM, tuckervill@... at tuckervill@... wrote:
Thanks for the nhen site too.
"What we are doing is just a drop in the ocean. But if
that drop was not in the ocean, I think the ocean would be
less because of that missing drop. I do not agree with
the big way of doing things."
- Mother Theresa, Albanian Nun, Missionary
on 1/7/03 5:31 PM, tuckervill@... at tuckervill@... wrote:
>
> Be careful, though. All states are different. For instance, in TN, if a kid
> is enrolled at school before the age of compulsory attendance, then their
> free pass of waiting until they ARE of that age suddently becomes expired.
>
> And a good place to find the laws is at <A
> HREF="www.nhen.org">www.nhen.org</A>.
>
> Tuck
[email protected]
In a message dated 1/7/03 2:10:45 PM, leschke@... writes:
<< Having unschooled one who was essentially an only (the other three grown
and
gone) I think it would have helped to have a sib or two around to stimulate
each other with new ideas. >>
It helps mine with additional kids are around. Even one extra kid changes
things in good ways. They play with toys they haven't seen for a while, the
other kid knows different games, different jokes, has different information,
makes mine behave better. <g>
Sandra
<< Having unschooled one who was essentially an only (the other three grown
and
gone) I think it would have helped to have a sib or two around to stimulate
each other with new ideas. >>
It helps mine with additional kids are around. Even one extra kid changes
things in good ways. They play with toys they haven't seen for a while, the
other kid knows different games, different jokes, has different information,
makes mine behave better. <g>
Sandra
Mary Bianco
>From: SandraDodd@...<<It helps mine with additional kids are around. Even one extra kid changes
things in good ways. They play with toys they haven't seen for a while, the
other kid knows different games, different jokes, has different information,
makes mine behave better. <g>>
Same here! I know people are hesitent sometimes to leave their kids here
because they think with 4 already, not to mention the critters, more kids
are such a trouble. And the house is actually great with the extra bodies
and if anything, I have more time for me stuff!!!
Mary B
_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail